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We Talked To A VP At Microsoft - WAN Show December 23, 2022

Linus Tech Tips ·Linus Tech Tips ·2023-05-05 · 28,218 words · ~141 min read

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0:00 Ho, ho, ho! Merry Christmas! Guess what I got you?

0:04 Nothing.

0:04 The WEN Show!

0:06 Yay!

0:06 Welcome, everybody! We've got a lot of great stuff to talk about today.

0:10 John Carmack's decade in VR is over as he exits from Reality Labs, formerly Oculus.

0:18 This actually broke last week, right before the show, so we didn't really get a chance to talk about it,

0:24 but we're going to talk about it this week instead.

0:25 Oh, this is a big one. This is actually the title topic of the show today.

0:31 We got an update from Microsoft on our Windows Modern Standby video,

0:36 where we basically went,

0:37 you guys are ruining Windows laptops with this standby issue where the battery just drains for no reason.

0:44 What the heck is going on over there?

0:46 And we actually, apparently, raised some hell over at Microsoft,

0:51 and Alex from our team managed to get on the phone with the VP of Windows,

0:55 Windows Platform and Services, to go over some of our questions.

0:59 So we're going to be talking about that call, what is going on over there,

1:03 what it is that they're going to do about it.

1:05 Got a whole big update for you guys. What else we got?

1:08 I thought the LastPass breach was in the dock, but I can't find it.

1:13 But we're probably going to talk about that anyways, because it's interesting.

1:16 And also, we have three rapid-fire topics today.

1:19 One is, Eufy admits they lied.

1:22 One is, NVIDIA ends GameStream, recommends Steam Link.

1:24 And another one is,

1:25 facial recognition used to bar a lawyer from entering a venue.

1:30 And the reason why I'm listing all of these is because some amount of them are written by ChatGPT.

1:39 Wait, all the rapid-fires are written by ChatGPT?

1:42 Some amount.

1:43 And you are going to have to guess which ones are written by ChatGPT.

1:49 Oh, no.

1:50 And which ones are written by our team.

1:51 I will say they have been slightly massaged to fit the format of how

1:56 Okay.

1:56 we normally do, but there are lots of, like, whole sentences and stuff that are taken directly from ChatGPT.

2:04 Why?

2:05 Okay.

2:06 So you're going to have to figure out which ones or how many, whatever.

2:09 We'll figure it out when we get there, but yeah.

2:10 Okay.

2:15 It's unlisted.

2:16 It's not on YouTube.

2:17 Who changed it to unlisted?

2:19 Hold on.

2:19 No, no, it's fine.

2:20 I'll just set it to public and then they will see the rest of it later.

2:29 Let's see.

2:35 The show was brought to you by Vessi Footwear and two other things that were there before.

2:40 See Sonic and Zoho One.

2:43 Yes.

2:46 Hold on a second.

2:48 This should go.

2:48 Ah, yes.

2:49 There we go.

2:49 Properly unlisted it.

2:50 Great.

2:51 Let's jump right into our headline topic for the day, which is, of course, that Alex managed

2:57 to get the VP of Windows Platform and Services on the phone to go over some of our concerns

3:03 about Windows Modern Standby.

3:06 First of all, I want to give Microsoft credit because on the one hand, yeah, they've clearly

3:10 sat on ass on this issue for, well, years at this point, but on the other hand, now

3:17 that we have raised it as a problem, now that the community has spoken and made their voices

3:23 heard that this is a problem that affects them day to day, they appear to be taking

3:28 it really seriously.

3:30 So let's start with kind of Alex's interview and go from there.

3:35 First, Alex asked, why is S3 sleep being removed from the system?

3:40 Oh, no, we should give the people a bit of a catch you up if you didn't catch the original

3:46 video.

3:46 Did you watch the video?

3:48 No.

3:49 Okay.

3:50 So Windows Modern Standby or S0 sleep is a connected type of sleep that is meant to replace

3:57 the traditional S3 sleep.

3:59 It's supposed to be connected, more power efficient, and generally a boon.

4:04 It's been brought about in no small part by Intel's push for a more smartphone-like

4:10 experience on Windows laptops.

4:14 The problem is that a lot of the time when the machine is sleeping, I mean, I'm sure

4:19 you've encountered this.

4:20 Have you ever come to your laptop, found it to be piping hot with a dead battery after

4:25 you folded it and put it in your bag?

4:28 Yes.

4:29 I also have like, I'll try to put my desktop to sleep.

4:32 Okay, separate issue.

4:33 Okay.

4:34 I don't want to talk about that for now.

4:36 Oh, I left it in the camera den.

4:40 So, we basically came out and said, we think we figured this out.

4:48 We think it's to do with some kind of, it seems like high performance machines are

4:52 disproportionately affected.

4:54 So, it's something that the machine can be churning away on while it's supposed to be

4:58 sleeping.

4:59 We figured out that by disabling the network connected aspect of this type of sleep on

5:05 a Mac, we were able to get rid of that behavior, which we have also seen on a Mac.

5:11 Okay.

5:11 So, we're going to talk about that.

5:11 So, we're going to talk about that.

5:11 So, we're going to talk about that.

5:11 So, we're going to talk about that.

5:12 Not a Mac, not even an Intel Mac, right?

5:15 Interesting.

5:16 So, it's just a weird quirk of this type of sleep state.

5:21 And we basically made a video calling out Microsoft saying, hey, this has been a problem

5:26 for literally years.

5:28 This cannot be because you already suffer from worse battery life compared to your main

5:34 competitor, Apple, who is gaining market share in the mobile computer space.

5:39 You've got to deal with this because it is killing.

5:41 the experience of using a Windows laptop yeah like i talked to someone like Jake and i'm sitting

5:47 hearing i'm sorry you charge your laptop like once a week that's impossible for me because half the

5:52 time i go to grab my laptop it feels it's probably not half but it it feels like every time i go to

5:57 grab my bloody laptop i might as well flip a coin for whether i'm going to have any battery left

6:01 if you go somewhere without a cable you might as well not even brought the laptop exactly yeah

6:05 exactly so we were trying to light a fire at microsoft and it seems like it worked so the

6:11 first thing alex asked was why is s3 sleep being removed from the BIOS of laptops because that's

6:16 the problem is you couldn't even just say look i don't want s0 i want s3 when there's this industry

6:22 move towards eliminating s3 so here's the answer microsoft is moving away from s3 sleep because

6:29 how each device goes to be because how each device goes to sleep is controlled by that device's

6:36 firmware that means for a device to sleep properly the firmware needs to be updated and

6:40 maintained

6:41 by the company that made said device and as you can probably guess that doesn't happen all the

6:47 time big problem with Windows being put on so many different things by using s0 sleep instead

6:53 microsoft has more control over sleep and has a much higher success rate of everything going to

7:00 sleep properly and waking up properly compared to s3 sleep and i have to admit i was wondering too

7:06 well what was the problem with s3 sleep but then again i also know

7:12 back to your desktop comment that there are plenty of problems with s3 sleep yeah like

7:16 say for example disabling wake on mouse or wake on keyboard in the BIOS and yet having it magically

7:22 wake up if you so much as bump your mouse anyway or just wake up randomly yeah right i had this

7:28 thing for a while where i had to put it to sleep three times every time it would just wake

7:33 back up again like five minutes later and i could finally get it to go down and i had

7:39 why don't you just shut down your computer why don't you just shut down your computer

7:42 if it's an advertised feature of the product no you don't get to complain about me complaining

7:50 about it that is a problem that is objectively a problem and i don't want to hear it

7:56 so so what you turn off your computer i don't give a but if the computer is supposed

8:03 to go to sleep i am well within my right to expect that it will go to sleep okay it's like a child

8:11 right the child is supposed to go to sleep so if it doesn't go to sleep

8:15 well you're well within your right to yell at it and shake it

8:22 obviously kidding obviously kidding i'm trying legal advice i'm trying to make it so people

8:28 don't take me too seriously when i'm going because some people can't tell the difference okay

8:35 all right anyway i also think sometimes it's like the backing into parking spaces thing like you

8:40 might have a lot of time when you are done using said device but you might know that the next time

8:47 that you have to start using it you're going to need to use it quickly but you don't want to just

8:51 let it sit there running the whole time and i guess i get that your needs might not be the

8:57 same as mine but that doesn't make them the only valid needs that too and i'm not saying that your

9:03 way shouldn't be supported

9:04 it's not supported that's the thing i'm not saying well everyone should shut down yeah you

9:09 shouldn't shut down i'm saying you should be able to do both we should have choice like say for

9:14 example there's a lot of really great feedback recently about the micron um facilities tour

9:19 okay okay did you watch it by any chance no but it's it's in my watch later yeah it's really good

9:25 yeah tons of comments basically this is the best video you guys have ever done

9:29 this is far and away the best factory tour i've ever seen it's a really good video micron

9:35 was amazing they really opened up allowed us to see not just see but use the facilities i made

9:42 RAM i said that i saw that thumbnail and immediately added it to my watch later i made

9:46 RAM it was so cool well here's the thing i can't did we just lose power how much ups do we have

9:54 over here uh we need to we need to get power from the main server room ups let's freaking go

10:01 uh we have three minutes okay how much uh okay uh luke entertain the

10:05 people okay uh i don't think we're live though we're live we are live uh okay uh wait no yeah

10:13 we're back hello hi uh it is night time on the land show now with luke how's it going Dan uh who

10:22 usually sits back there behind the tv which i guess you guys don't see but it's also behind

10:26 the camera uh pretty much said three minutes got up and ran uh and Linus also got up and ran we have

10:35 lost power uh both of them are off trying to solve the problem i'm still not 100 certain if

10:44 it's live people are saying f i think we're still sending some data i'm not 100 sure what's going on

10:51 but assuming that this is going to someone right now i'm just gonna i'm just gonna keep going uh

10:57 there's ups is beeping all around the building i'm not 100 certain what you guys can hear

11:02 but we have one very large ups in the server room

11:06 that i think they are going to try to work on i suspect if i had to make some assumptions

11:13 that they are going to be shutting down certain things that are running off of that ups system

11:17 to try to keep networking and whatnot going as long as possible so that we can keep the stream

11:22 going i do believe that is the plan although i can hear them talking right now so theoretically

11:27 that will be coming back soon um i don't know should i give you guys spoilers no i can't because

11:33 then you guys will post them in chat and Linus will know which ones are

11:35 which ones are real and which ones are fake so i won't i won't go through that

11:40 um i don't think i can really complete this um sleep topic so i might jump into another one

11:47 i think the one that i'm going to do is the last pass topic uh because if this

11:53 stream is going out to no one uh that is probably the most okay one to do because

11:58 there are no notes for it in the doc oh hello uh just all the lights coming on what's a good time oh

12:08 this isn't ups running this we just got power back no this is this is ups this is ups okay

12:19 yeah should we turn this off yeah just go for it you're fine there's extreme circumstances yeah we

12:25 can just have a night when show it's fine directly through the notes legendary programmer john carmack

12:31 known for programming the original doom uh and his love for vr has stepped down as consulting cto

12:38 for reality Labs formerly oculus i actually didn't know they were called reality Labs i don't know why

12:43 you would even know already if i didn't know that yeah i think that was a while back yeah i probably

12:48 just didn't care because it's a weird name change that doesn't matter uh meta is famous for making

12:54 and directing and directly breaking promises not to f it up uh in quotes

13:00 you will not need a facebook account to use or develop for the rift that's definitely not a thing

13:05 anymore quotes we are not going to track you flash ads at you or do anything invasive uh that's not

13:10 a thing anymore in quotes we are going to we are not going to lock people out because they'regonica

13:14 compete I actually didn't know that was broken but apparently that was broken in

13:18 2016 yeah and then another one in quotes Facebook is going to give us access to

13:23 massive resources but let us operate independently the first part they did if

13:28 anything I think the entire world quadrupled hex two pulled down yeah the

13:36 first yeah the first half of that is extremely correct and then in quotes

13:41 none of our gaming resources will be diverted oh yeah that one uh not so much

13:45 uh Carmack says that he has mixed feelings about leaving stating that the quest two in particular

13:51 was almost exactly what he wanted to see despite complaints about the software yeah the proverbial

13:56 straw that broke the camel's back is apparently the the gaming resources being diverted one for

14:00 him I mean we know yeah John Carmack you know he's a gamer he's not a he's not a gamer he's

14:06 not a game he's not into gaming right right John Carmack not not that into gaming just

14:11 a

14:11 Doom yeah it's not a game yeah yeah it's a wall it's real it's a wall painting it's how we protect

14:18 the world from demons it's training you know the storyline behind Doom is like surprisingly in

14:25 depth yeah it's like there's a ton of lore yeah I had no idea yeah I mean either anyway uh Carmack

14:30 has previously been critical of meta's direction saying that they should focus on products to tap

14:34 into the metaverse before building out initiatives uh he worried that thousands of people's efforts

14:39 spanning years would be spent

14:41 on things that didn't contribute to the way people use devices today seems to be a little

14:46 bit true his biggest problem however is the efficiency and speed of development he says

14:51 that as someone who works hard at optimization seeing gross inefficiency hurts your soul likening

14:57 to seeing five percent GPU utilization that is not surprising from him he has always been hyper into

15:05 that uh this is one of the reasons why people still run some of his old games on like as many devices

15:11 as you can imagine because they're really really well built for for optimization for regard like

15:15 basically regardless of what platform you're on reality Labs he says operates at half the

15:19 effectiveness that he'd like yikes that's a big I mean his standards are pretty high yes but there's

15:28 probably still room for improvement also yes um his voice at the top of the company to his dismay

15:34 has not been able to persuade the organization to improve he says uh that he has never been able to

15:40 stop

15:41 stupid things because they cause damage or set a direction and have the team stick to it he blames

15:47 himself for this as instead of taking a leadership role and locking horns with Facebook on day one he

15:53 focused on what he's best at programming that's also not surprising he assumed he would hate it

15:59 be bad at it and probably lose anyways so that's why he stuck to programming he still deeply

16:04 believes in VR and that meta is best able to show its value his parting advice in quotes

16:11 is make better decisions and fill your products with give a damn now me too actually Carmex Focus

16:19 will be on his artificial intelligence startup Keen Technologies which has received significant

16:25 investment money in recent months artificial intelligence or AGI has the goal of making an

16:31 artificial intelligence system that can theoretically do any task a human can a truer definition of AI

16:41 far more limited in scope and off and is often just a matter of observe and fail at one thing

16:46 until it gets better some like meta chief scientist yan lee hopefully i said that right i

16:52 don't know sorry if i did say that wrong uh doubt that agi can or will ever become a reality others

16:59 fear what agi could represent if created irresponsibly the ai overloads overlords

17:06 joke hits a little differently for agi now what i kind of want to raise here uh is i think ai or agi

17:16 or whatever is what a lot of people definitely including myself thought vr was going to be at

17:24 this point in time yeah i think it's a huge disruptor i think it's going to change a ton

17:28 of things i think it already has and the real usable levels of it have barely even existed yet

17:36 when gpt4 comes out if places like google who have large language models similar to gp3 gpt4

17:43 whatever if they start using those more publicly if other companies that have similar systems start

17:48 using those more publicly i think the impact of these things are going to be on the scale

17:53 that when oculus was first founded people thought the impact of vr was going to be at

17:59 so i think it is a much more significantly interesting thing to work on right now

18:05 and i think

18:06 carmack is is quite interested in leading his own things considering that the vast amount of his

18:15 frustrations very clearly when leaving meta um was leadership decisions sure and and

18:22 efficiencies and goals and all that type of stuff so if he can steer the ship more directly

18:26 and he can do it on something that might be more punchy and more fun right now this is one of those

18:30 things where i've i think i've talked to you about this like not on the show just talking um i don't

18:36 know how i would handle working for someone else yeah as long as they made decisions that i agreed

18:41 were really great it'd be fine but the second but they probably won't yeah and it's not going to be

18:49 fine i i i think it's really hard to and the thing is that i like to think that i try pretty

18:56 hard to reach consensus when we make a decision as a company um i have never experienced that anywhere else and i suspect that let me add to that midterm studies and career research stuff of people that have tried to trust their perspective as a company

19:00 that have tried to trust their expertise as a company i

19:01 recently wrote i think one thing is işi did a really good job when i did my paper for

19:02 i did funny supporters so years this was really hard to for careers i wrote these standards general

19:05 i suspect that is not very common and i suspect that even as i'm talking about this and you're

19:10 sitting there nodding i'm not always perfect at it um but no but there's a reason i'm still here too

19:17 i don't know i just i don't think i would i don't think i would find i wouldn't need to agree with

19:22 everything but i don't think i would find a place where i would agree with enough and i think that's

19:27 basically what he's run into here i've said this literally on the WAN Show before like i don't

19:31 necessarily agree with everything we've ever done but i think that would be basically impossible

19:36 um and it's fine and i think i i do agree with the vast majority of things that we've done

19:42 um wow i want to give her a little more juice way less than i thought

19:49 all right good enough nice i do agree with the vast majority of things that we've done

19:54 and even when i don't agree with what we've done i can usually at least see the logic behind it

19:58 i have worked places before where tons of things happen where

20:02 i

20:02 no matter how hard i try i can't find the logic behind it uh the logic behind why the show is

20:07 dark today by the way if you guys are joining us a little bit late here we're going to try to splice

20:12 together the the segments of the show uh but we were interrupted by a power outage we are going

20:18 to run on battery for as long as we can here guys but the show might be a little bit on the shorter

20:24 side which means i want to jump through our sponsor spots right away to make sure that hey

20:28 at least they're getting their money's worth here and they don't ask for a refund uh the show is

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20:41 i'm not going to not get through the sponsor spots okay we i i was brought in on my friday

20:46 i'm supposed to be on vacation this week darn it we are doing the lawn show it features an 80 plus

20:53 titanium rating which means that less power gets wasted during power conversion uh Dan do you have

20:58 the sponsor lower thirds oh they're on the server aren't they okay we're living without them today

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22:38 I've actually been wearing them quite a bit lately.

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22:44 an extended period, and so I started wearing the Vessis, and it's a hard habit to break.

22:50 They're like, they're all right.

22:53 You know, my girlfriend bought Vessis without realizing that they were a sponsor of us.

22:57 Yeah.

22:58 Did she even get the discount?

23:00 No, I don't think so.

23:01 And she, I didn't know that she even had them, and she was talking about how much she liked

23:06 her shoes because no water got through them, and I was like, oh, we have a sponsor that

23:10 makes like highly water resistant shoes.

23:12 They're called Vessi.

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23:15 Small world.

23:16 How did this happen?

23:17 But yeah, it's actually, that's actually a true story.

23:19 What do you want to talk about?

23:22 I want to get through these rapid fire topics because I want to see if you can sniff out.

23:28 Sure.

23:29 Which one of them was written by ChatGPT.

23:33 So first, do you want me to read them and you can read through the notes and think about

23:37 it?

23:38 Or how do you want to do this?

23:39 Let's just do it like we normally would.

23:40 You know, I'll do one, you do one.

23:41 Let's get through all three of them.

23:42 Sure.

23:43 And then I'll do my best.

23:44 Okay.

23:45 First up, we've got Eufy admits they lied.

23:48 This has been a developing story over, man, like a month now, hasn't it?

23:53 In a blog post addressed to Eufy security customers and partners.

23:58 Anchor.

23:59 The parent company of Eufy admitted to using the cloud to send mobile push notifications

24:03 with small preview images, which are protected by end-to-end encryption and deleted shortly

24:08 after being sent.

24:10 The company also admitted to a security flaw in the live view feature on its web portal,

24:15 but denied that any user data had been exposed or that facial recognition data was sent to

24:21 the cloud.

24:22 Eufy has made changes to the feature to require users to log into the web portal in order

24:27 to view live streams.

24:28 The company also said that it is committed to reducing the use of the cloud in its security

24:35 processes wherever possible, and that it complies with all industry standards.

24:43 Discussion question here is how much does an incident like this really tarnish a brand

24:47 or its bottom line?

24:48 I don't know.

24:49 It depends how mainstream it is.

24:50 I think it varies a lot.

24:51 Yeah.

24:52 Yeah.

24:53 I think it depends how mainstream the reporting on the negativity surrounding it is.

24:57 How much competition there is in the space.

24:59 That too.

25:00 You can talk day in and day out about what a toxic company NVIDIA might be, or Apple

25:04 might be, and it's not going to stop people from buying their products.

25:08 Absolutely.

25:09 Yeah.

25:10 Whereas Eufy, I feel like what did not have as strong of a brand to begin with, and so

25:15 much of the strength of their brand, at least based on the messages I'm seeing about it,

25:20 was around that promise that they didn't upload anything to the cloud.

25:24 So yeah, I could see it being extremely damaging.

25:28 And there's quite a few competitors.

25:29 Yeah.

25:29 There's quite a few competitors, and there's competitors that are bigger names.

25:32 So this could be a hugely negative impact.

25:34 Kind of an underdog.

25:35 Yeah.

25:36 Yeah.

25:37 Our second discussion question is, if you became CEO of this company one week before

25:41 the revelations, I hope the AI wrote this discussion question because this is a great

25:46 discussion question.

25:47 I suspect it was James who wrote this discussion question, though.

25:50 I think, but I don't remember.

25:52 I think all the discussion questions might be people.

25:55 I had a meeting with Riley and James this week about sort of...

25:59 Because we added, Luke and I added a bunch of topics to the doc right before the show

26:03 went live last week.

26:05 And Riley sent me the world's saddest email.

26:07 It was pretty sad.

26:08 Being like, you know...

26:09 We work really hard.

26:10 On these topics.

26:11 It would be really nice to know if you're just like, would prefer other topics.

26:17 And I'm like, oh, Riley, I'm sorry.

26:21 It's not you.

26:22 It's me.

26:23 Let's have a meeting next week and kind of talk about why we changed them.

26:26 And one of the things that wasn't just like me.

26:28 Yeah.

26:29 I know.

26:30 Laying down an edict or whatever.

26:31 But one of the things that came out of our discussion, you're a genius, Jake.

26:36 He's got a...

26:37 Jackery.

26:38 A Jackery.

26:39 Yeah.

26:40 Speaking of...

26:41 There's five?

26:42 We're streaming WAN Show.

26:43 Let's go.

26:44 Heck yeah, Jake.

26:45 All right.

26:46 Do it.

26:48 Wait.

26:49 What were we talking about?

26:50 Now, right.

26:51 Yeah.

26:52 So one of the things we came to together was that part of choosing a good show, you know,

26:58 is...

26:59 Choosing a good topic is looking at what the discussion topics will be.

27:04 Because if the discussion topic is, is this bad?

27:08 Yeah.

27:09 Yes.

27:10 Then there's nothing to really talk about.

27:12 Yeah.

27:13 Yeah.

27:14 It's bad.

27:15 We need some back and forth.

27:16 Okay.

27:17 Well, but why is it bad?

27:18 How is it bad?

27:19 Who was bad?

27:20 Where was it bad?

27:21 We've got to be able to...

27:22 There's got to be some meat on the boat.

27:23 There's got to be a discussion in the discussion question.

27:24 Yeah.

27:25 And so what I'm noticing is our discussion topics.

27:27 Yeah.

27:28 Our discussion questions are so much better because I think we're choosing topics based

27:32 on how rich the discussion can be.

27:35 Yeah.

27:36 If you wanted to truly make things right, if you were the CEO of this company one week

27:41 before this happened, so you can't alter course, all you can do is react to it, what would

27:46 you have done differently?

27:47 So I actually vaguely referenced this on the last show that we talked about, Yuffie, which

27:51 I don't think was our last show.

27:53 I think it was two shows ago or something.

27:55 And this might tank the company.

27:57 But what I said was they effectively had to recall devices.

28:02 And I still kind of defend that.

28:05 And yeah, it might tank the company.

28:06 I don't know.

28:07 But they advertised on local only.

28:11 It is not local only.

28:12 They're not going to be able to change the...

28:15 Maybe you can.

28:16 I doubt it.

28:17 I don't think they're going to be able to change that.

28:19 Certainly not immediately.

28:20 So they need to...

28:22 So maybe another option is offer full refunds.

28:25 Yes.

28:26 Yes.

28:27 They're explaining everything that's going on.

28:29 Be very transparent.

28:32 Admit the things you got to admit.

28:33 Offer a full refund.

28:34 Yeah.

28:35 And if the user doesn't take it, they don't take it.

28:36 But like...

28:37 So the CEO in me would be trying to avoid a full, we refund everything.

28:46 Yeah.

28:47 Yeah.

28:48 So I think you have to do the offer.

28:49 That's kind of the end.

28:50 Yeah.

28:51 You just tank the whole company.

28:52 Yeah.

28:53 You might as well just say, see you later.

28:54 Yeah.

28:55 At that point.

28:56 And I don't mean like as an FU to the customer.

28:57 That that would be the right thing to do.

28:59 I mean, you just might not survive it.

29:01 You just spent so much money on R&D, you spent so much money on tooling, you spent so much

29:06 money on manufacturing, you spent so much money on shipping, now you have to pay for

29:09 more shipping.

29:10 Yeah.

29:11 To take it all back.

29:12 And you didn't gain anything.

29:13 Yeah.

29:14 So what I would be trying to do is offer that option because you kind of have to, but I

29:21 would be trying to come up with a more compelling option that doesn't hurt me quite so much.

29:26 Yeah.

29:27 Right?

29:28 So I might be looking at, okay, if I can convince you to keep this in its current state and

29:36 I can send you the new working one when we get there, can we do that?

29:41 Or I would be looking for-

29:42 I don't know if there's a subscription, but maybe you give them six months for free or

29:45 something.

29:46 Yeah.

29:47 If I could keep this in its state for now, but I could get you to what we promised in

29:52 six months, can you accept that?

29:55 I'd be trying to look for...

29:56 Ultimately, right, what the customer wanted was that product.

30:01 Yeah.

30:02 So what I would be trying to figure out is, is there any way without taking back everything

30:08 to get you what you paid for?

30:10 Well, there is some problems with that due to-

30:13 I know.

30:14 But-

30:15 You already broke the trust.

30:16 Yeah.

30:17 So you have to throw in a bonus because you have to do more than just get them what they

30:19 paid for.

30:20 Well, there's some technical problems with that too.

30:21 For sure.

30:22 Getting notifications to local phones or remote phones, all this type of stuff.

30:25 For sure.

30:26 I understand the core idea of what you're saying.

30:29 But I'd be trying to look for a way to kind of go, okay, it's going to take us some time.

30:34 We're going to have to do this to make it up to you, some kind of partial refund or

30:38 some kind...

30:39 Which is often not actually possible.

30:42 You ran into this a little while ago where you were not able to issue someone a partial

30:46 refund through PayPal because it had been 180 days.

30:49 They requested far past a reasonable date.

30:51 Yeah.

30:52 Yeah.

30:53 And PayPal literally wouldn't allow Luke to do it because I guess the assumption from their point of view...

30:54 Yeah.

30:55 Yeah.

30:56 ...is that it must be under duress.

30:57 I don't know.

30:58 Yeah.

30:59 Right?

31:00 Yeah.

31:01 I think their thing is they don't want to deal with...

31:05 Because I think if you...

31:06 If I remember correctly, if you do a refund within the terms, the fees and whatnot get

31:11 refunded as well.

31:12 Right.

31:13 And there can be accounting challenges for everyone up and down the chain, right?

31:16 Yes.

31:17 Yeah.

31:18 Because if you have already remitted the taxes you collected, let me tell you something.

31:23 The state of California ain't going to be given a refund.

31:24 Ain't going to be giving you back those taxes you remitted.

31:27 Yeah.

31:28 No chance.

31:29 No matter who you refunded, whatever you refunded to.

31:31 Yeah.

31:32 So there's challenges.

31:33 So you're just eating it.

31:34 Yeah.

31:35 Well, I mean, even if you just eat it, the reporting for that would be a nightmare.

31:37 I don't even know how you would account for it.

31:39 Right?

31:40 Yeah.

31:41 So it's a nightmare.

31:42 So, yeah, I'd be trying to look for a compromise, but I agree with you.

31:47 You don't have a choice.

31:48 You have to offer the option.

31:49 You have to do something.

31:50 Yeah.

31:51 You have to offer the option.

31:52 And a bunch of people are going to take it.

31:53 Yeah.

31:54 If you are sincere and you are open, and this time you're honest, you might have a solid

32:00 amount of people that don't run.

32:02 But they didn't do that.

32:03 They did not.

32:04 They've taken too long.

32:06 And honestly, this response seems kind of half-baked as far as I'm concerned.

32:10 Someone just needs to sue the trash out of them.

32:13 They're not going to be successful.

32:14 It's a Chinese company.

32:16 Oh, right.

32:17 What are they going to do?

32:18 Yeah.

32:19 Fair enough.

32:20 Nothing.

32:21 Like China's going to protect their own.

32:22 Get them banned from selling.

32:23 Yeah.

32:23 So what?

32:24 The States or something.

32:25 Yeah.

32:26 And so I just, from my point of view, Anchor's on our list at this point, which is unfortunate.

32:32 We really enjoyed working with them actually.

32:34 I really liked Anchor.

32:35 I genuinely liked the products.

32:36 Yeah.

32:37 Me too.

32:38 So like, it sucks because finding good long-term sponsor partners is not something

32:44 that's easy.

32:45 And I feel for the poor sales team here, right?

32:48 Because when I just rug pull them and I go, hey, yeah, that account that you've been handling,

32:52 that's doing.

32:53 It's over many thousands of dollars a year.

32:54 Guess what?

32:55 You're not working with them anymore by edict of the king.

32:58 Like that sucks.

32:59 Right?

33:00 Oh, it does.

33:01 Yeah.

33:02 Absolutely.

33:03 Like imagine you worked in sales somewhere, right?

33:04 Your boss comes into the room and says, yeah, certain quotas and all this type of stuff.

33:07 Yeah.

33:08 That car that's on the lot, you can't sell that car anymore.

33:11 Or like you can't work with, you know, I don't know, families.

33:16 Anytime a family walks on the lot, you can't sell them anymore or whatever it is.

33:20 Right.

33:21 Kind of frustrating.

33:22 Like that sucks.

33:23 What?

33:24 I just let them walk by.

33:25 Frustrating the whole way down the chain.

33:26 I just let them walk by.

33:27 I got quotas to hit.

33:28 Right?

33:29 That sucks.

33:30 So.

33:31 Let me do my job.

33:32 That's just the way it's going to have to be, though.

33:33 I think I just don't see a way out for us.

33:34 We can't in good conscience continue to work with them.

33:36 We have to have standards.

33:38 The way out of this topic, though, is transitioning into NVIDIA ending game stream and recommending

33:43 Steam Link, which was really weird and surprising to me.

33:48 Yeah.

33:49 NVIDIA has announced that it will be ending its Shield TV game stream feature in four days.

33:50 Yeah.

33:51 Yeah.

33:52 It's going to be in February 2023.

33:54 In response, users have expressed frustration and disappointment, with some arguing that

33:59 the Steam Link app recommended by NVIDIA as an alternative is just not as good.

34:05 For example, some users have reported that Steam Link has lower quality video, less responsive

34:09 controls or slower speeds compared to game stream.

34:12 Others have complained that the apps interface or the need to purchase a separate device

34:16 to use it.

34:17 Now, separate device.

34:18 I mean, you already needed an NVIDIA Android device to use game stream.

34:22 I don't know if I really buy that one, because you can install Steam Link on a shield.

34:25 To be fair, I think it's a separate device compared to what.

34:28 Oh, I see.

34:29 Yeah.

34:30 Yeah.

34:31 So I don't agree with that.

34:33 However, I do think that NVIDIA's investment into game stream was a real one and a good

34:41 one.

34:42 It was a good product.

34:43 It was one that I personally was very enthusiastic about.

34:48 And I've used Steam Link and they're right.

34:51 It's not as good.

34:52 It just.

34:53 I don't know.

34:54 I want Steam Link to be great.

34:55 Yeah.

34:56 But it's just not there.

34:57 There are alternative options like Moonlight.

35:00 That's dependent on game stream.

35:01 Oh, is it really?

35:02 I thought it just used the encoder.

35:04 I didn't think it actually piggybacked on game stream.

35:07 I'm not 100% certain in my completely independent of writing this article research.

35:13 I heard that it's dependent on game stream.

35:15 Oh, that sucks right now due to the power issues we're having.

35:19 We don't actually have chat.

35:21 These local laptops do not have Internet at all.

35:23 Yeah.

35:24 So we're we're working on that.

35:25 But for now, we got nothing.

35:27 So I can't I can't look into any of this and I can't see what you guys are saying.

35:30 But some have suggested using Sunshine, which is a game stream host for Moonlight as an

35:35 alternative.

35:36 Do you have a SIM tool?

35:37 Do I have a SIM tool?

35:38 I do.

35:41 I know.

35:42 We should have at least three hours.

35:45 Three hours.

35:46 We got Jackery.

35:47 Let's go.

35:48 There's a Jackery plugged into the UPS.

35:50 There's a Jackery plugged into the UPS.

35:52 Jackery has a plug.

35:53 Because it has a 20 amp plug.

35:54 Of course it does.

35:55 Yeah.

35:56 Shout out.

35:57 Shout.

35:58 They didn't sponsor the WAN Show today, but they might as well have.

35:59 Shout out Jackery for like sending us a new Jackery every time we do any kind of work

36:05 with them.

36:06 So we just have this pile of Jackery's that we keep charged in the event of an emergency.

36:11 With good reason.

36:12 And are now using, which is amazing.

36:14 Oh, you can use your phone.

36:15 Yeah.

36:16 My phone has Internet.

36:17 So perfect.

36:18 I'm keeping it away from the cables because there's crazy feedback that comes through.

36:19 But whatever.

36:20 Cool.

36:21 Because Moonlight uses NVIDIA Game Streams.

36:23 NVIDIA's Game Stream protocol.

36:24 It is unclear if it will still work after the mid-February update.

36:29 So it might work.

36:30 Might.

36:31 But maybe not forever.

36:33 Or it might just not.

36:35 Got it.

36:36 We have no idea.

36:37 A petition.

36:38 This isn't going to work.

36:39 A petition on Change.org has been created to try to reverse the decision to shut down

36:43 Game Stream.

36:45 The petition itself isn't going to work at all.

36:48 Maybe pressure in general towards NVIDIA will do something, but no one has cared about petitions

36:54 since like.

36:54 The internet started.

36:55 Yeah.

36:56 So it's just a thing.

36:57 Yeah.

36:58 Which is unfortunate to be clear.

36:59 We're not saying it should be that way.

37:00 No.

37:01 It just hasn't seemed to have any kind of effect.

37:02 If you really want to get a company's attention, I would say that a hundred tweets to their

37:03 corporate handle is going to be a hundred times more effective than 10,000 signatures

37:04 on a Change.org petition.

37:05 Especially if you get a bunch of people to do it at a very similar time.

37:06 Yeah.

37:07 So you can get it to translate.

37:08 Yeah.

37:09 Yeah.

37:10 Yeah.

37:11 Yeah.

37:12 Yeah.

37:13 Yeah.

37:14 Yeah.

37:15 Yeah.

37:16 Yeah.

37:17 Yeah.

37:18 Yeah.

37:19 Yeah.

37:20 Yeah.

37:21 Yeah.

37:22 Yeah.

37:23 Yeah.

37:24 Yeah.

37:25 Yeah.

37:26 Yeah.

37:27 Yeah.

37:28 Yeah.

37:29 Yeah.

37:30 Yeah.

37:31 Yeah.

37:32 Yeah.

37:33 Yeah.

37:34 Yeah.

37:35 Yeah.

37:36 Yeah.

37:37 Yeah.

37:38 Yeah.

37:39 Yeah.

37:40 Yeah.

37:41 Yeah.

37:42 Yeah.

37:43 Yeah.

37:44 Yeah.

37:45 Yeah.

37:46 Yeah.

37:47 Yeah.

37:48 Yeah.

37:49 Yeah.

37:50 Yeah.

37:51 Yeah.

37:52 Yeah.

37:53 Yeah.

37:54 The person at that level is just going to go, look, it's already over.

37:58 Yes.

37:58 It's fine.

37:59 This is clearly resolved.

38:00 Yeah.

38:01 So if you are upset, you have to make noise.

38:04 You have to continue to make noise.

38:06 And then you have to not stop making noise.

38:08 And you have to hope a lot of other people are doing the same thing.

38:10 Yeah.

38:11 If you're by yourself, it's not going to accomplish much.

38:13 I mean, man, I see this in a number of different ways.

38:18 I haven't touched GameStream in a long time.

38:21 I was just going to say.

38:21 I have three shields in my house and I haven't touched it.

38:24 As much as this sucks, it might ultimately be what NVIDIA needs to do.

38:29 As much as we just told everyone how to complain about this properly.

38:32 If not enough people are using it, and if it's not really a driver for people to purchase

38:38 their products, et cetera, and it's this huge cost sink, like companies are companies.

38:43 Yeah.

38:43 And NVIDIA is definitely a company.

38:45 Oh, heck yeah.

38:46 So like if it's, there are some cost sinks that companies will keep around.

38:50 Cough, cough, the forum.

38:54 Yeah, it doesn't cost that much.

38:55 Not really.

38:56 It's not a huge cost sink, but it definitely loses money.

39:02 Yeah.

39:03 Not a ton, but it's negative.

39:05 But like you can't do that with everything.

39:08 GameStream is probably a relatively complicated thing to keep updated and working with everything

39:13 all the time and performant and whatnot.

39:15 So like, I'm not happy this is going away.

39:20 And I'm sure that the people who like started the change.org petition and the people that are,

39:24 are really angry about this are people who have heavily integrated this into their setups.

39:30 And that sucks.

39:32 Yep.

39:32 That's the thing.

39:33 That's what Apple is so good at.

39:36 They don't always have the best product, but dammit, that sucky product in their walled garden with

39:43 their stupid limitations is going to still exist in five years.

39:47 Yep.

39:48 Not always.

39:48 I mean, their, uh, their servers went away.

39:52 Uh, what else could I point at as I've been there?

39:54 Their professional desktops effectively went away, then came back for one generation and seem to have gone away again.

40:03 They're not perfect, but if you buy an iPhone, you can expect continuity.

40:08 You can expect that software for iPhone will still be an option on newer hardware.

40:13 That I mean, 3d touch, uh, you know, by and large works the same way that the old one did, but more better.

40:21 Like that's some, that is something that just plain.

40:24 Sucks on the, the, the, the, the PC Android, more wild west open side of things like I, okay.

40:32 We did a video right before the WAN Show on this wireless GPU.

40:37 Okay.

40:37 There was a, a four 60 that had five antennas hanging off of it.

40:41 GTX four 60.

40:43 I'll got all these antennas hanging off of it has this receiver dongle that comes with it.

40:47 That has an HDMI out that goes into any HD display.

40:51 And it was meant to be an all in one solution.

40:53 For wireless display.

40:55 Okay.

40:56 Super cool product.

40:57 But if you buy into that, literally design your home theater set up around it thinking I'm definitely going to have an upgrade path for this over the next few years, I'm going to integrate this into my life.

41:11 You're an idiot.

41:12 Cause it's not going to happen to be fair.

41:14 It's NVIDIA.

41:15 I don't think in videos killed a lot of their projects.

41:18 I can't think of it.

41:20 Sorry.

41:20 Um, yeah, but the whole world.

41:22 Okay.

41:23 Thanks.

41:25 Physics was around for a long time.

41:26 Yeah.

41:27 And it's technically still around, but not in the form that was promised to us in the days and in the wake of the NVIDIA acquisition, NVIDIA abandoned wears things.

41:38 They do.

41:39 They do.

41:40 I guess, I guess my brain just keeps comparing it to Google and it's like, no, not really.

41:44 But yeah, those are, those are a few examples.

41:46 Yeah.

41:46 The shield portable.

41:47 Okay.

41:48 Handheld handheld gaming consoles.

41:50 What happened to those?

41:52 One and done boom.

41:53 See you later.

41:53 Now, I'm video kills stuff.

41:55 Let's not kid ourselves.

41:56 Fair enough, fair enough.

41:57 Um, and so, and so that really sucks.

42:01 And that's one of the reasons that smart home has smart home technology has been such a struggle, right?

42:07 Because there's no ecosystem that you can buy into and just hope for continuity.

42:12 Well, you can buy into it and hope, but you're, but it's not going to come true.

42:15 And so our discussion question here is to what extent does the removal of something like game stream represent a broken promise to customers of the NVIDIA?

42:23 We can use way back machine at this point to go look at the marketing of the shield.

42:29 Look at how prominently NVIDIA featured this particular, uh, capability of the product in their marketing and say, Hey, this is tantamount to outright false advertising at this point.

42:44 And this is something that is happening more and more like a perfect example is what Google's done with their home, with their hub products and their, their nest home product.

42:53 Yeah.

42:54 Where that lawsuit from Sonos affected their ability to set up the product to such an extent that it is extremely user unfriendly.

43:02 Now, I mean, you, you, I'm sorry, but there has to be legislation put in place that says if you advertise a fucking feature, you don't get to take it away with an update.

43:19 You can't update your product to make it worse.

43:23 My, my steam deck.

43:24 Doesn't work.

43:24 So I can't swear, but it's like, uh, it's the power zone is fine.

43:28 Uh, it's, it's, it's, it's like the games recently as well.

43:31 Right.

43:31 We talked about these games, especially VR games.

43:34 Uh, there was a few of them that didn't sell super well.

43:38 So they just completely offlined all their servers, but they're online only games and people bought them.

43:44 I don't even care if one person bought it.

43:46 Yeah.

43:46 You advertise this game.

43:48 You shouldn't be able to shut down the servers like one year later.

43:50 That's crazy.

43:52 Yeah.

43:52 That's ridiculous.

43:53 Or you should have to.

43:54 As we've said so many times, you should have to release the server side code.

43:57 Yeah.

43:58 At the very least.

43:59 And if nobody picks it up.

44:01 All right.

44:01 So be it.

44:02 Yeah.

44:02 So be it.

44:03 But if you advertise the feature, then I think there needs to be legislation in place.

44:08 Your button's not working.

44:09 I found out.

44:10 Um, that in good faith, you have to provide the community.

44:15 You have to give stewardship over to someone so that it can be maintained.

44:20 Yeah.

44:21 And I think when it comes to software, there's.

44:24 Uh, vibrant enough open source community that someone would take this and run with it.

44:30 I don't know if they're going to run with it as well as, uh, the, the SUPCOM guys, but yeah, there, there is still, uh, there are communities outside of the, uh, just honestly, fairly stunningly awesome Supreme commander community.

44:43 There are communities outside of that, that are running old games that have become, uh, open source or shareware in some way.

44:49 And it's, it's pretty cool.

44:52 Um, we have one more.

44:53 Whoa.

44:55 Is that intentional?

44:56 Oh, I think they're using Jackery's to restore it.

44:59 Wait, no, it is.

45:00 This is the power is the power on.

45:02 No emergency lights.

45:04 I think that, yeah, they're using Jackery's to, uh, to bring the lights back on.

45:08 Oh, it is back on.

45:11 The emergency lights are off, right?

45:12 That should.

45:14 Okay.

45:14 All right.

45:18 All right.

45:18 We've got this.

45:19 Can we turn this back on?

45:20 Yeah, it might be.

45:20 Uh, Hey.

45:22 All right.

45:22 Cool.

45:22 That right there.

45:25 Um, is someone from float.

45:28 Plane trying to figure out getting access to these files to kind of stitch everything on it.

45:32 Yeah.

45:33 AJ, you are an absolute French Canadian champion.

45:38 Um, I'm sorry.

45:39 I had to qualify.

45:39 I'm, I'm fair.

45:40 I'm fairly certain.

45:41 He's got the first one coming down already.

45:43 All right.

45:44 Um, I don't know.

45:46 I don't think he's even heard at this point that we need the second one.

45:49 If you're watching this, AJ, I'm sorry, but it's true.

45:52 All right.

45:52 We're going to do our third, maybe written by AI topic.

45:57 Facial recognition.

45:58 Was used to bar a lawyer pun intended from entering a venue.

46:03 And this maybe doesn't sound like that big of a deal, but it's a big deal.

46:08 A mother accompanying her daughter's girl scout troop to a Rockettes show at radio city music hall in Manhattan over the Thanksgiving weekend was denied entry after facial recognition software, allegedly identified her.

46:22 So this is before submitting any kind of identification or ticket or anything.

46:28 Kelly Conlin, imagine doing this to a lawyer on purpose, anyway, Kelly Conlin, the woman in question works as a lawyer for a firm that is involved in a personal injury claim against, um, MSG entertainment, the group that owns the venue.

46:46 She does not, however, practice in New York and is not involved in the particular case.

46:52 So Conlin claims she was approached by security and asked to produce identification.

46:58 After passing through the metal detectors into the main lobby, a sign in the lobby does state that facial recognition technology is in use for the safety of guests and employees.

47:12 Interesting.

47:14 MSG entertainment claims they have a policy that precludes attorneys pursuing active litigation against the company from attending events at our venues until that litigation has been resolved.

47:29 Brutal, absolutely.

47:31 Brutal.

47:32 The heck timeline are we on Luke?

47:36 Imagine going into, uh, I don't even know if these exist.

47:40 Imagine going into an anchor one random person.

47:43 Who's never even heard of this story that works at, uh, one of the companies here walking into an anchor store and being told to leave because they know that they're employed by the parent company of this company that has some kind of ongoing dispute.

47:57 Yeah.

47:58 Like this can, it doesn't even have to be a dispute, right?

48:01 This.

48:01 This can of worms is open wild.

48:05 Imagine any, uh, Sonos employee was to try to use a Google service if they bought a Google home and went to set it up and it used AI voice recognition to say, Hey, we couldn't help noticing that you're such and such from Google's hardware division.

48:23 Uh, why don't you go F yourself?

48:25 And, uh, yeah, that's pretty much it.

48:28 See you later.

48:31 Absolutely.

48:32 What?

48:33 Wild.

48:36 Yeah, that's crazy.

48:38 Absolutely crazy.

48:39 Discussion question.

48:40 What are your feelings about facial recognition being used to bar people from events based on, uh, scraped data sets like this?

48:48 Um, when is it appropriate?

48:50 When is it not?

48:51 Where's the line?

48:54 This is bad.

48:57 Uh, I don't know.

48:58 I'm, I'm hot spotted.

49:00 Uh, I, I can check though.

49:02 I'll check.

49:03 Jinx.

49:03 You owe me a ride home.

49:04 I, I, I mean, that was the plan.

49:06 Okay.

49:07 Okay.

49:07 Okay.

49:07 Okay.

49:07 Okay.

49:07 Okay.

49:07 Um, I'm taking him for a ride in my new car.

49:12 Yeah.

49:14 I haven't really talked about it yet.

49:16 I think that's the first public announcement.

49:18 That's the first public acknowledgement.

49:20 I don't know about appropriate, but one thing I'm going to throw out there is I think this might become a big thing for political events.

49:28 Yeah.

49:28 Oh, wow.

49:29 Cause if you can keep protesters out by knowing what their affiliations are based on facial recognition, pairing that, pairing that with public recognition.

49:36 Where else they've been seen?

49:38 Pairing that with public recognition.

49:38 Public information, like Twitter accounts or whatever else, um, and figuring out if you want to let people in, uh, I, I think that's absolutely going to be a thing.

49:47 I'm not going to take a stance on how I feel about the appropriateness of that.

49:53 I just see that happening.

49:55 I see this, I see this coming down to like a Supreme court tier, like, like free, like first amendment kind of thing in the U S and then I suspect, uh, Canada is going to pull their usual.

50:08 That's the thing where we basically just.

50:10 Copy what the U S does.

50:11 Yeah, do whatever the U S does.

50:13 Yeah.

50:13 Uh, yeah.

50:14 We're a super cool independent country and we advance, uh, directly in step with the U S.

50:19 Sometimes we ignore what they do, which is good.

50:21 Um, other times we ignore what they do and it's not as good.

50:24 Yeah.

50:24 Anywho, the point is that this is, I think this is headed for the Supreme court.

50:28 Cause I think ultimately there there's going to be like, um, like a, like a personal rights argument from both sides on the one hand.

50:38 Discriminating against someone based on their profession or their place of work seems like pretty open shut.

50:45 But on the other hand, to tell a venue that they are, that they do not have the right to refuse service to an individual customer on their own bloody property is also seems pretty open and shut, right?

51:00 It's weird.

51:00 There's a strong argument, both ways, strong argument.

51:04 There's a lot of technological stuff coming out right now that.

51:08 The law is so far behind and it doesn't help that half of the legislators in the Western world are septuagenarians.

51:15 As far as I can tell, no idea what's going on, no idea what's going on.

51:20 And even the younger ones, quite frankly, could stand to be a little more tech savvy based on a lot of the C-SPAN that I've seen.

51:27 Yep.

51:28 Yep.

51:29 Okay.

51:30 So at least one.

51:32 Jake has apparently joined the show.

51:34 Oh no, he's not sitting in the producer cam.

51:35 So we missed him.

51:36 Lean to the right Jake.

51:39 Apparently he's here in case the, uh, the power goes out again, things, things have gotten a little hairy this evening.

51:46 It's been a fun night.

51:48 Um, my roof caved in.

51:51 That's a fun thing.

51:52 Uh, minutes after leaving my, uh, my apartment to come to work, I got a call from my girlfriend saying that, uh, part of the ceiling had ripped through and it was raining in one of the bathrooms.

52:04 Um, we thought it was a.

52:07 Previous, uh, a leak that we had previously found.

52:09 The house that was caused by the AC.

52:11 It wasn't that it was the roof of the apartment building was leaking into the attic and then ripped through our ceiling.

52:18 So that was cool.

52:19 I haven't been to go.

52:20 I haven't been able to go help with that, but she's been doing a great job.

52:22 Luke had to co-host a video with me before the show today, uh, reacting to our worst videos and he should it.

52:32 Okay.

52:33 For real talking, talking from the heart here.

52:35 Okay.

52:36 I have to commend your professionalism.

52:38 Oh.

52:39 He showed up looking like an actual storm cloud, like jaw set, teeth clenched, pissed.

52:49 We turned on the camera and he's like, this video is terrible.

52:56 Classic Luke.

52:57 It helps that they were actually pretty terrible.

53:01 We've made some stickers over the years.

53:05 There's one, there's one that I had completely forgotten about.

53:09 Actually.

53:09 I have no memory of it at all.

53:11 Hosted by Luke hosted, like clearly it's, it's something that I did and it's, it's really bad.

53:19 I, wow.

53:20 Yeah.

53:20 There's also a couple in there that I expected to see the, uh, the Blackberry one.

53:24 I like I did the, the second I heard the premise of the video, I was like, Blackberry video, Blackberry video is going to be in there.

53:30 Um, it's awful.

53:31 Oh yeah.

53:32 It's terrible.

53:32 But yeah, that'll be a, that'll be a fun video.

53:34 I have done some stuff, you know?

53:37 I didn't feel like as a mid twenties.

53:39 Something that my sense of humor was probably going to change.

53:44 I felt like what I was doing and thought was funny.

53:47 Then I would probably still think is funny in 10 years.

53:50 It's not funny.

53:51 We'd laughed at it.

53:52 We did laugh, but we were laughing at me.

53:56 That WD video was so funny.

54:00 It was not funny.

54:01 It was cringe.

54:02 Yeah, I guess so.

54:03 It was cringe so hard that it goes all the way around back to funny.

54:09 There, there's a couple.

54:09 Comments about my birds.

54:10 The birds are fine.

54:12 Um, my, my girlfriend got the birds back into cages.

54:15 They're covered.

54:16 Everything's fine.

54:16 Um, we did not include the hide your porn one.

54:20 I don't even think that video was that bad.

54:21 I think that video did.

54:22 Okay.

54:22 It might be cringy.

54:24 Like the humor is probably terrible.

54:25 Oh, um, but I think that is anything we've ever done.

54:28 I think like performance wise, I think it did fine.

54:31 Um, I'll always remember the script review meeting for that because Luke wrote some cringy.

54:39 Like I.

54:39 It was his idea to have like, basically a lot of the shots be, you know, uh, suggestive.

54:47 Right.

54:48 And then I think that you thought, do you remember this?

54:52 Uh, I, I, not with full clarity.

54:54 I, yeah, I think that you thought I was going to come in and tone it down.

54:59 And then I amped it up to the point where even you were kind of like, Oh, this is pretty bad.

55:06 It honestly sounds about right.

55:07 Yeah.

55:08 Yeah.

55:09 Yeah.

55:09 Two, 2.2 million.

55:10 Yeah.

55:10 I'm going to come in and do like the review meeting.

55:12 Yeah.

55:12 I'm going to come in and do like the review meeting.

55:12 I'm going to come in and do like the review meeting.

55:13 Yeah.

55:13 And then I'm going to be like, Oh, this is pretty good.

55:13 And then I'm going to go in and do like the review meeting.

55:14 And I'm going to be like, Oh, this is pretty good.

55:14 Yeah.

55:14 Um, it was pretty good from seven years ago.

55:14 There's some real tech tips in there.

55:15 I mean, I don't know how relevant most of them are now that incognito mode and like just everything being shockingly easily accessible as the thing.

55:22 Yeah.

55:22 I guess it would help it hide from you, like your parents to a certain degree, but incognito mode, isn't really enough.

55:26 I'm pretty sure TrueCrypt was in there, which isn't really a thing anymore.

55:31 So, like, it's definitely a little dated, but yeah.

55:33 Something like it, probably useful still.

55:35 Okay, back to it, though.

55:37 We just did three core topics.

55:40 Eufy, NVIDIA, facial recognition.

55:43 Some amount.

55:44 I haven't told them how many.

55:45 It could be all of them.

55:47 It could be one.

55:48 It could be two.

55:49 Some amount of them were written, massaged slightly so that it fits our format a little bit better.

55:54 But written with some minor edits by ChatGPT.

56:02 And now you need to try to identify which ones.

56:05 I also, because I think this is important and interesting, want to know why you think this for each one.

56:13 Man, the fact that...

56:15 The fact that it's this tough is very interesting.

56:18 Okay, but the fact that a human went through and massaged it...

56:21 That is true.

56:22 That is true.

56:23 Makes it really tough.

56:24 I don't know how much of that...

56:25 I don't know how much of that was done because it wasn't me.

56:27 James prepared this.

56:30 I do know that he said, like, many of these are, like, full sentences.

56:35 Like, he mostly shaped it instead of changed it, if that makes sense.

56:39 That's my understanding.

56:40 It's been a bit...

56:41 A lot has happened since I talked to James.

56:44 I think the Eufy one was written by ChatGPT.

56:47 Okay.

56:57 That's the only one that I think for sure was written by ChatGPT.

57:01 So you get one point.

57:04 You get...

57:05 Okay, no.

57:06 You get two points.

57:06 Hold on, hold on, hold on.

57:09 Okay, he hasn't explained the points, so I think I can still clarify further.

57:12 Yeah.

57:13 I think that the NVIDIA one was written by a human.

57:17 Okay.

57:18 I am not sure about the facial recognition one.

57:24 I don't know how to give you points anymore.

57:26 You got one right.

57:28 Okay.

57:28 You got one wrong.

57:30 And you got one maybe, I guess.

57:32 The answer to the facial recognition one...

57:34 The facial recognition one was written by a human.

57:38 Both of them...

57:38 Both of the other two are ChatGPT.

57:40 Shoot.

57:41 Wow.

57:43 Wow.

57:45 Yeah.

57:46 Yeah.

57:47 Wow.

57:48 Yeah.

57:50 Wow.

57:51 Pretty crazy, eh?

57:52 Yeah.

57:53 So we've talked about this privately, and I don't have this prepared.

57:58 But someone made...

58:00 I wish...

58:01 I wonder if I can bring it up.

58:05 Here.

58:06 I mean, just so that you guys can see what the notes look like for these, because that

58:09 might not be...

58:10 That might not be something that will translate perfectly for you, here's the Yuffie topic,

58:17 which the reason that I thought that it was ChatGPT was because it was far less editorialized

58:23 than some of our writers tend to...

58:26 There's also things like, in a blog post addressed to Yuffie security customers and partners,

58:31 bubble anchor, all of it's properly capitalized.

58:33 Yeah.

58:34 There's a few things that can make it stand out slightly.

58:37 This one, though?

58:38 The fact that it...

58:40 Yeah.

58:41 The fact that it really talked about what's going on around this.

58:45 So I will add some context.

58:47 It wasn't done...

58:49 And some people on the stream will know this, and I think you'll know this.

58:51 It wasn't done by just saying like, hey, summarize this link, because it can't...

58:55 No, you can't do that.

58:56 It can't crawl the web.

58:57 So information was given to it, talking points were given to it, and then it turned them

59:04 into whatever.

59:05 Still.

59:06 So we gave it notes.

59:07 Still.

59:08 Yeah.

59:09 And then James gave it, I think it was like five or six links.

59:13 It gave it the links and a five word blurb for each link.

59:18 That was the NVIDIA one, actually.

59:21 I wonder if I have a screenshot.

59:22 I don't know if I'd be able to find it.

59:24 It's in my team, so I wouldn't be able to show it very effectively on stream.

59:27 But just very little information.

59:30 But from information that is naturally in the URL of something that isn't obfuscated,

59:34 and the little tiny three to five word little snippet of each post.

59:38 Yeah.

59:39 So James wrote this NVIDIA article.

59:40 Wow.

59:41 Which is pretty good.

59:42 Wow.

59:43 It was 100% enough for us to go off of.

59:46 Super, super interesting.

59:49 I was talking to Linus the other day about, oh, this is not even the one that I found.

59:57 I Googled it and I found a different one.

59:59 So more than one person has done this, which is interesting.

60:02 Should I go to your laptop?

60:03 I guess.

60:04 I think this is what...

60:05 Yeah, you can go to it.

60:08 So this is, I don't know, every.tv.

60:09 Yeah.

60:10 I've never heard of this before.

60:11 I built an AI chatbot based on my favorite podcast.

60:16 This is a different person though than the one that I linked to you.

60:19 Yeah.

60:20 And it's not the exact same thing, but it's extremely close.

60:22 This one looks like a command line thing, whatever, I don't know.

60:24 So the one that I had found, it's an actual website that you can go to.

60:27 These are both based off of the Huberman Lab podcast.

60:30 But people have taken, I'm assuming, I have not read this article.

60:34 The other one, I know this is how this works, and I'm assuming this person did it in the

60:37 same way.

60:38 They use a different open AI product.

60:40 Yeah.

60:40 So they fed all of Dr. Huberman's podcasts through Whisper, which is another open AI

60:47 product, which transcribes audio to text.

60:50 And then they fed all of the text into GPT-3, and then they made it so that you can ask

60:57 the chatbot effectively questions about what Dr. Huberman says in his podcasts.

61:03 And it will go through all of the transcripts of all of these three hour long, super dense

61:08 podcasts.

61:09 And it will pull answers out for you.

61:11 The other one will also cite its references.

61:15 So it'll say like, I got this from this podcast at this minute, and you can click on it, it'll

61:20 bring up the podcast at that timestamp so you can listen to the original audio just

61:24 in case you don't trust the transcription.

61:27 This is super interesting for like a bunch of reasons.

61:31 This is terrifying for content creators.

61:34 Podcast industry.

61:35 Yeah.

61:36 Especially if you are a very information dense podcast.

61:38 Yeah.

61:39 Like the Huberman Lab podcast, because now people don't have to listen to your content

61:44 or consume it at all.

61:46 These random people on the internet just made a way completely detached from your content

61:51 that you have absolutely no way of being paid for.

61:54 Nope.

61:55 And they made a way for people to completely bypass all of your stuff.

61:59 It's super helpful for users that want to pull information out of it.

62:03 It's super not helpful for you being able to grow your, your, your, your channel or

62:09 your audience or continue to do your podcast, continue to do it at all, really.

62:12 So from a copyright standpoint though, man, see how do you control it?

62:18 I mean, it's just like the artist thing, right?

62:20 So there's nothing inherently wrong with AI generated or machine learning generated artwork.

62:25 Yeah.

62:26 The issue is how it was trained and proper compensation for the dataset that it was trained

62:31 on.

62:32 And Luke talked about this extensively enough in last week and the week before that I don't

62:35 think we need to tread over it again this week.

62:37 Yeah.

62:38 Yeah.

62:39 There's no problem with a bot that compiles answers to questions as long as it is properly

62:44 compensating whoever's original work was used to train it.

62:49 But as of this time, that's not being done and there is no framework whatsoever for that

62:55 to be done.

62:56 So for the same reason that artists are crying foul about their artwork being used to train

63:02 their machine replacement, uh, I could see a podcaster crying foul about their bot.

63:09 Yeah.

63:10 They're just trying to make use of their body of work, their body of copyrighted work being

63:12 used to create a tool that irrelevance their copyrighted work.

63:16 And I don't think you're gonna be able to make a very solid, fair use argument for something

63:20 like this because yes, for personal use, you could probably make the argument that there

63:27 is nothing wrong with watching all of the episodes.

63:34 Therefore having all of the words for yourself and making those where it's creating an index,

63:40 of those words and a way to recall various words in some way, right? But as soon as you make it

63:47 more broadly available, especially commercially available, that falls apart. To be fair,

63:53 all the ones that I've seen so far have not been commercially driven. One interesting one,

63:58 the first one that I found, and I don't know why I can't find it right now. I'm sure I could if I

64:02 use my Google Foo a little bit more effectively. But the first one that I found, the whole thing

64:07 is open source too. You put it all in GitHub. And the fact that multiple people have done this

64:11 already, proof that it's not really that hard. The person that I had looked into originally said

64:17 it took them less than a day. The process is all kind of already there. You're just sort of linking

64:23 things together, right? We've got a couple interesting viewer comments here. So Eric

64:29 RC on Floatplane says, Linus, I disagree. I don't believe most people listen to podcasts

64:35 just for answers. There's a definite entertainment value.

64:37 But this is just like what I was talking about earlier, where just because you don't need to

64:41 put your laptop to sleep doesn't mean that I don't. So yeah, this podcast, I don't think anyone

64:49 necessarily would. No one needs to search this for information. Or it's unlikely, but someone

64:56 could. Yeah, because we're going to be a secondary source a lot of the time, unless you're looking

65:00 for information about my life or Luke's life or whatever else the case may be. And if that's the

65:05 case, probably it would be...

65:07 It would be more interesting to hear it as told by us anyway. I think The WAN Show is a more

65:12 entertainment show anyhow. And I'm not saying that because there's some kind of like liability,

65:18 oh, advice on The WAN Show should be taken for entertainment purposes only. It's just,

65:21 I do think that that's the show that we try to run for you guys. But that doesn't mean that

65:26 every podcast is like that. Some of them are very Q&A driven, very information driven.

65:31 And Hubermans are extremely information driven. There are also lots...

65:34 And not that entertaining.

65:35 There are also lots of...

65:37 I don't know about that one. But...

65:37 Sure. But there is a lot. You're right, though. There is a lot of educational or

65:41 informational based podcasts. There's tons of science based podcasts. There's tons of

65:45 even like...

65:47 It's more about keeping up with the industry.

65:49 Yes.

65:49 And less about being entertained.

65:51 Yes.

65:51 Right?

65:52 Yeah.

65:52 And so...

65:53 Or like, imagine there's a self-help podcast.

65:56 Sure.

65:56 You might look for answers to somewhat common self-help questions by using this thing.

66:02 Whatever it is, there are lots of not just like storytelling entertainment style.

66:07 Yes.

66:07 Things.

66:08 And so that's a big challenge.

66:11 And an ethereal llama says, isn't this part of the territory when you post free content on the internet, though?

66:17 No.

66:17 No.

66:18 The content isn't free.

66:19 We've talked about this before and some people are never going to understand it.

66:23 But that's really just not my problem at a certain point.

66:26 The content isn't free.

66:28 There is an implicit agreement that the content is going to be supported in some way.

66:32 Otherwise, it won't exist.

66:33 Otherwise, it would explicitly be said that it is free.

66:38 Linus Tech Tips is not free.

66:40 Linus Tech Tips is paid for by actual money, which we get from ads or from subscriptions.

66:49 And it is possible that something is free, but that also does not mean that its license allows you to do this with it.

66:56 Correct.

66:56 There is a ton of different levels of variation when it comes to licensing.

67:01 And you could absolutely release a podcast with a license where you allow people to do this.

67:07 Right.

67:07 Absolutely.

67:08 There's nothing stopping you from doing that.

67:09 You could say everything that I say into this podcast is free for everyone to use in any way.

67:14 And no, I did not just say that about WAN Show.

67:16 But you could say that, but I do not believe that has been said by these people.

67:21 But what I was going to say is a dangerous intrusive thought that comes up when I've already heard about this thing where they're taking podcasts and they're transcribing them and stuff.

67:33 And I'm not going to go into that.

67:35 I'm not going to go into that.

67:35 I'm not going to go into that.

67:36 It's false.

67:37 I mean, they can't do this to them and stuff.

67:41 What stops people from setting up an RSS feed of trusted news sites?

67:49 Setting up a bot that is able to scrape the body of an article without grabbing all the ads and the other junk that's on the page, taking all of that, feeding it to chatGPT, getting chatGPT to rewrite it, and then getting another system that they make to automatically post these.

68:07 Actually,

68:07 is pretty good at it genuinely rewritten articles and then they put their own ads on and then they

68:13 just put their own monetizing someone else's work yep it's all automated yep like and so

68:19 you know what it's not going to completely destroy industries in a day no maybe not even in a year

68:27 give it 10 years i mean even three yeah it's it's gonna be going a very that is already an entire

68:36 news industry yeah but it's usually junk and if you're like paying attention pretty much at all

68:43 you can usually kind of tell no you can a lot of people can't fair enough which is why we're

68:48 but this this moves that bar up quite a bit yeah people have found a few different accounts because

68:53 you can kind of prod them in the right way that people have found a few different twitter accounts

68:57 that are using ai generated faces as their profile that look extremely convincing like you can't tell

69:05 especially at that size

69:06 at that resolution it you really can't tell yeah um and then they have fully chat gpt written tweets

69:13 and replies the whole account and the ones that i have kind of found with with advice from other

69:21 people and how to find them etc etc etc um all of the ones that i've found it looks like people are

69:26 just experimenting i don't think they're really using them to any goal yet yep but yeah it's gonna

69:34 happen yeah we're headed in an interesting direction

69:36 and

69:36 it's hard to find out uh laro does says what about content creators doing this themselves

69:41 to search their podcasts i mean yeah we could sure but what i can tell you is that right now

69:48 there is no like zero effective way to monetize something like this and pretty much any podcast

69:57 that you know and love if it has any kind of monetization on it now if you were to say to

70:03 the creator hey uh why don't you use this tool where people don't use it to monetize something

70:07 don't have to watch the podcast you monetize and they can just get all the information that they need

70:13 without watching it and you monetizing it why don't you do that they're gonna be like why some

70:20 some that like they really don't care about their podcasts as a career path or whatever and they

70:25 just want the information absolutely sure and again i did specify ones that are currently monetized

70:30 okay yeah there you go yeah yeah pretty much um and kai m says i mean ad block is a thing what's

70:36 your take on how this is different to that it's not what his take is on that is pretty documented

70:42 yes i think i think i've been pretty clear about it uh the part that people got confused about

70:47 is i never actually said never use an ad blocker what i said is own it yeah just own it yeah

70:54 understand put on your hat yeah wear your shirt yeah we've even sold a shirt yeah i like it just

71:01 own it it's a nice shirt that's all i said just just just deal with it and if you have like if

71:06 you feel all guilty about the word then maybe that's something then you should do some self

71:11 reflection yeah but yeah otherwise then just yeah just just own it yeah exactly um adfa kls djf

71:26 uh over on Floatplane says i bought two shirts yeah you didn't i don't think yeah we

71:34 very understandably i yeah i will

71:36 say but i don't think we have been doing uh merch message curation at all oh yeah we shoot

71:44 kate um where's Dan uh is Dan still here i don't know

71:52 i'm looking through them right now uh okay uh yeah well hey we've actually got an update on

71:58 LTT Store speaking of ways that we will still be able to survive because we are a mature well

72:03 diversified company i don't mean mature like we don't make fart

72:06 drugs jokes jokes um i mean mature like we have developed a lot of revenue streams to help us

72:13 whether uh you know whatever ai storms are headed this way LTT Store is a huge one uh i think i said

72:19 this before but 2022 is the year that LTT Store's revenue will be greater than our media production

72:25 revenue uh massive shout out to all of you guys for absolutely for making this possible massive

72:30 shout out to the team responsible for it uh nick kyle bridget sarah lloyd oh my goodness i'm gonna

72:36 give you a shout out to all the people it's gonna be really awful uh you know natalie uh adam nolan

72:41 uh there's some new people in customer care i don't know their name yet so i'm not gonna include them

72:44 but you know we got hannah matthew alama day uh the team there is conrad amazing thank you uh

72:52 massive massive shout out to the Floatplane team for making that whole thing happen like it's been

72:58 it's been a long time coming but it means that our future as an independent media company is basically

73:06 a solid foundation for us as a community we've been really proud of our support for you guys

73:10 as we've been really proud of our support for you guys i'd love to see you guys getting back on the

73:15 road and doing great stuff so keep that in mind as long as you guys continue to support us in that

73:20 way uh we've got a deal for you guys this week uh where is it oh wait this just says lttstore.com

73:26 deal of the week question mark i thought we did have something to talk about this week oh

73:31 we have something i didn't talk about last week if nothing else um yeah is that still running we

73:36 can find some hints in the uh in the reviews that that are up we ran this as a promo during the

73:42 black friday's uh period it's yeah that's not the pricing that we're going to be doing for it in the

73:48 long term it's going to be 50 bucks but we've got everything from small to triple xl and you guys

73:53 can check it out mystery hoodie sales are final we do not offer returns or exchanges but it is a

73:59 way to get yourself into an LTT hoodie for a pretty aggressive price uh we're also shipping

74:06 backpacks in real time now they're not backordered in any way uh what else is there that i could

74:11 really say about the store right now i mean yeah i guess that's i guess that's probably that's

74:16 probably enough um all right and uh picking something up on the store is the way to send

74:21 a message into the show they're called merch messages and they're better than super chats

74:24 better than twitch bits because all the money you spend will go into something that you actually get

74:29 to keep and use

74:30 and enjoy instead of lining the pockets of big tech that's our that's our sales pitch and uh

74:36 if youtube and twitch and facebook uh operated the same way as twitter i probably wouldn't be

74:43 allowed to say that but hey we never live streamed on twitter so yeah whatever deal with it oh we

74:52 figured out afterwards you can't periscope's dead right spaces is not the same thing so we couldn't

74:58 yeah yep uh

75:00 uh all right uh i guess we should do a couple have you i have curated some i'm working on going

75:07 through the incoming dance not here so i'm gonna go ahead and uh go through a couple of our curated

75:11 ones and we'll get back to some more topics here should i talk about the big thing that happened

75:15 this year like the really big one the one where we convened like uh a council of people to talk

75:23 about it it's it's past the nda date for it so i could talk about it like the first one the the

75:32 really big event that the really big maybe the really big event that we talked about and ultimately

75:38 decided not to to do no the second event then should we talk about the second big event i'll

75:46 let you think about it while i go through a couple of messages i don't think so i mean i think it

75:50 might be interesting for the people to have some idea it's also the kind of thing that if i worked

75:58 here i probably wouldn't want to hear about it on the WAN Show yeah but i mean are they used to it

76:02 at this point maybe i mean they are but that doesn't mean it's a good thing

76:05 um atomic age a silver on Floatplane says do it cowards i mean i would say the same thing

76:16 if i was in the audience um i do think you should probably discuss this with other internal people

76:23 before we do though james ryan says do you have a recommendation for messaging into the show for

76:28 people who might not want to have a physical object show up uh buy a gift card on LTT Store

76:32 and then just never spend it i guess or spend it eventually or gift

76:37 it it's a gift card yeah give it to someone else it's a gift card yeah at least that way you're not

76:42 throwing away any money yeah right yep don't throw away money because like what's the overhead on

76:49 like uh on a super chat like 30 40 something like that yeah why are you doing that yeah all right

76:57 uh anonymous says hey guys wanting to get into it soon and with the technical difficulties

77:01 experienced tonight i was wondering how help desk issues are solved at LMG is there an official

77:06 ticketing system or just grab the nearest

77:08 Linus uh there's no official ticketing system so you would first go to logistics uh with Dan being

77:16 your main point of contact for that sort of thing and then if he's not around i believe there's

77:21 someone else who is like can kind of be helpful and then it's going to fall to Jake we actually

77:26 have some documentation for catastrophic failures that luke and Jake have been working together on

77:34 so that you'll be you'll have some some docs that you can go to they're not really

77:38 intended for the average user they're intended for more like a me or an Anthony to look at or or

77:43 even people that work on it all the time it's it's mostly a like everything around you is on fire and

77:49 everyone's panicking let me go back to this thing so i don't actually have to think about it so i

77:54 can put my mental power elsewhere and just follow these steps and get everything back online as soon

77:59 as possible it also like organizes all the information that you need does stuff like that

78:03 it's a good idea to have disaster recovery procedures it's something that i think we could

78:07 do better but it's something that

78:09 also is working reasonably well for us um i think that because we are a company of relatively tech

78:15 savvy people we probably have a lot fewer i can't figure out how to open my email client

78:22 my computer won't turn on oh it's not plugged in yeah then many companies would so it hasn't

78:27 overloaded those guys yet but as we expand into more say for example like physical goods

78:32 manufacturing where we can't expect people to have a high level of technical proficiency like maybe

78:36 they're a wizard with a sewing machine

78:39 but you know a computer what's a compute right i i don't i don't know then we might have to deal

78:44 with more of that and it might be something that we'll have to address um kevin m can you test

78:50 whether lifting a laptop by its palm rest causes a mouse click to register i frequently carry around

78:56 my laptop while watching full screen videos and it's frustrating having them pause all the time

79:00 both my xps 15 and my lg gram do this so i curated this i thought it was actually kind

79:05 of an interesting question because i have experienced this before me too so like maybe

79:09 something interesting for the Labs to consider if they start getting into laptop testing it could

79:14 even be like a mostly pass fail like if by lifting it at any point in these sort of designated areas

79:20 it causes a mouse click to register um then fail kind of thing yeah yeah it's an interesting

79:27 interesting idea all right i'm going to submit that to gary

79:33 uh you might have to do the next one because i'm typing an email okay i'm actually going

79:36 to do one that isn't curated yet but i was just going to curate it uh so this is from colin r he

79:41 asks what what are your thoughts on the potential of ai generated video game assets do you think

79:46 that oh i found it again do you think that engines like unity or unreal engine will develop tools for

79:54 easy integration of ai generated assets in the workflow uh i think they are absolutely going to

80:01 be a thing i would highly suspect that both of those engines will eventually find some form of

80:06 integration uh including the potentiality of that integration just being a tool that is built into

80:12 i have already seen examples of people using chat gpt input prompts into something i don't remember

80:20 what it was it was some ai art program thingamajigger and it was making texture maps

80:26 for models that they made in 3d yeah um i saw that too like cad software so they were modeling

80:33 like buildings and or they were texturing like buildings and stuff some of them were

80:38 surprisingly good does it look perfect no no

80:42 But I've seen games that were worse.

80:44 I've seen finished games that were a lot worse.

80:46 Relatively modern ones too.

80:48 Like, yeah, it's 100% gonna be a thing for sure.

80:53 Stable diffusion, was that it?

80:54 Yeah, I think a bunch of people saw this.

80:56 It was relatively trendy, so yeah.

80:59 Absolutely wild.

81:00 All right, you guys have got some more time

81:02 to send in some merch messages.

81:05 The producer's back.

81:06 Sup, Dan?

81:07 Hello.

81:08 How are, how are the, yeah.

81:15 Look at him.

81:18 Yeah.

81:19 Dan, you've seen better days, my friend.

81:21 I live for this stuff, don't you worry.

81:23 Yeah, hell yeah.

81:25 Oh yeah.

81:26 Let's go.

81:26 This has been an absolute poo show today.

81:29 To be fair, this is good stuff.

81:31 Yeah, we appreciate you guys sticking with us

81:33 through the technical difficulties.

81:35 For once, it wasn't our fault at all.

81:38 And I think-

81:38 I think the response to it was pretty good.

81:39 We, you know what?

81:41 If it hadn't been-

81:42 Was it flawless?

81:43 If it hadn't been for a thing that I can't really disclose

81:47 that is special about the WAN Show setup,

81:50 I don't think our,

81:52 I don't think our stream would have even stopped.

81:53 Wouldn't even have coughed, no.

81:55 It was just that, that was the only problem.

81:56 And we will have that addressed for next time.

81:58 It was just one of those things we just didn't,

82:01 we didn't think about that the WAN Show

82:03 will need to continue through a power outage.

82:06 Like, we are set up so that, in the end,

82:07 we're gonna be able to do it.

82:08 In the event of a long-term power outage,

82:10 we can at least finish,

82:11 we can have one editor finish today's video.

82:14 That's kind of the, that's the bar, right?

82:18 And everyone else can shut down their work,

82:20 or shut down their computers and save their work safely.

82:24 But now that we know that we could do this,

82:29 I'm thinking daisy chain jacqueries.

82:32 I'm thinking backup batteries

82:34 on all the key pieces of infrastructure.

82:36 Let's go, power off WAN Show.

82:40 Yeah, we can do about three and a half hours.

82:42 Yeah.

82:43 Which is, I mean, a lot of WAN shows get pretty close

82:47 to that these days.

82:48 Yeah, but not longer.

82:49 But they don't go past that, yeah.

82:50 Yeah, oh, I'm excited.

82:52 I'm excited, this is great.

82:54 All right, what else do we got today?

82:57 Apple to allow third-party app stores and sideloading

83:02 in Europe due to Digital Markets Act.

83:03 We talked about this a little bit last week,

83:06 but it hadn't been fleshed out in the doc

83:07 because of a miscommunication, so we're gonna get into it

83:09 in a little bit more detail.

83:10 One really quick thing.

83:11 Dan, are you on Merch Messages now?

83:13 I'm trying my best.

83:14 Got it.

83:15 If you guys can help, that'd be great.

83:17 Okay.

83:17 Apple has signaled that it will abide

83:19 the EU's Digital Markets Act

83:21 and allow third-party app stores and sideloading on iDevices.

83:26 This is exciting.

83:30 The DMA is intended to prevent abuse of market power

83:33 and allow new players to enter digital markets,

83:35 basically leveling the playing field against big tech.

83:40 It was signed into law in September,

83:42 came into effect in November,

83:43 and active enforcement will begin in May.

83:46 That is a fast timeline for such a...

83:49 That is a very fast timeline.

83:50 Such an earth-shaking change to the way

83:52 that these digital markets have worked up until now.

83:56 Apple's objections to date have been numerous.

83:59 It will be confusing for users.

84:01 It will be a gold rush for the malware industry

84:04 and a cyber criminal's best friend.

84:06 This would destroy the security of the iPhone.

84:10 I'll be very interested to see if Apple's marketing

84:13 around the security of the iPhone changes.

84:16 I'm willing to bet they don't say the iPhone is not secure.

84:19 Yeah.

84:19 Hmm.

84:20 So maybe they can overcome this after all.

84:22 Oh, interesting.

84:24 And they said Android experiences

84:27 five million attacks per month.

84:29 Okay.

84:30 Yeah.

84:31 And?

84:33 How many do they?

84:34 Yeah.

84:34 Incidentally, the news triggered a stock surge

84:37 for dating services and apps.

84:40 Oh, wow.

84:41 You'll finally be able to have like, say for example,

84:42 a pornography app on the app store.

84:45 Yeah.

84:46 Like Apple has long taken a moral high ground

84:49 against certain types of content.

84:50 Interesting.

84:52 Well, unless it's in Safari web browser,

84:57 nobody can use Apple software and hardware

84:59 to view such things.

85:02 Get real, guys.

85:05 While this is broadly seen as a victory for consumers,

85:09 some are less sure.

85:11 Sami Fathi, a writer for MacRumors,

85:13 says that many questions remain

85:15 on how Apple might implement this

85:17 and suggests that it might, in effect,

85:19 force people to sideload.

85:23 Apps must be able to access services and sensors

85:25 and sideloading could offer greater control for apps

85:28 than the app store's restrictions allow.

85:30 I have no idea what Sami's point is right now.

85:34 Companies like Meta and Spotify are incentivized to leave

85:36 as they're in direct competition with Apple

85:38 and chafe under app store's rules.

85:41 Yeah.

85:42 So, no, what's actually going to happen

85:43 is in order for Apple to maintain any kind of revenue

85:47 from the app store,

85:48 they're going to have to take a less abusive cut

85:53 and they're going to have to relax their policies.

85:57 It's good.

85:58 This is good for consumers.

85:59 All you're doing is,

86:01 Sami, all you're doing is reiterating

86:02 why this is good for consumers.

86:06 Okay.

86:07 Bit odd.

86:09 This is a problem.

86:10 This is a really good point.

86:11 Making sure that people are running the latest app revision

86:14 this way is going to be a major issue for developers

86:17 versus just having the app store manage this.

86:21 That's going to be messy.

86:23 And then this third point,

86:24 basically it's a mess all around.

86:26 I disagree.

86:29 Android already allows sideloading.

86:30 No, it is not a mess all around.

86:33 Most users, I promise you, don't sideload anything.

86:39 And it'll probably be the same way.

86:41 But,

86:42 if Apple has major cash cow apps come to them,

86:45 one after another, after another, after another,

86:47 this is finally a way for partners to put pressure on Apple,

86:51 to actually be partners rather than servants of Apple,

86:59 rather than just being grateful that Apple gives them

87:02 the privilege of being part of their fiefdom or whatever.

87:10 Limited sideloading is already a thing on iOS.

87:12 So yeah, things might not change that much.

87:14 But right now it's very restrictive.

87:16 Users have to import a certificate to do so.

87:18 It has to be refreshed weekly to function

87:20 if you aren't a developer.

87:21 There's an app limit of three.

87:24 AltStore, I've never even heard of this,

87:26 is apparently a third party app store

87:27 that automatically refreshes the certificates.

87:30 Now this discussion question, who's right here and why,

87:33 I think I've made my position pretty clear.

87:35 This is a win for consumer choice.

87:37 And again, this is one of those things

87:39 where if you're an Apple user who wants to only use

87:42 the app store, then by all means,

87:44 you should have no objection to this for everyone else

87:47 because you can keep just using the app store.

87:50 Go for it.

87:52 I don't want to.

87:54 And I don't like Apple's monopolistic behavior.

87:59 So I might choose to do something else.

88:02 It's called consumer choice.

88:03 You have the choice to do it that way.

88:06 And this is effectively a legislative body stepping in

88:11 and saying, yeah, Apple has not in good faith provided

88:14 consumer choice, has not in good faith put themselves

88:17 on a level playing field with their competitors

88:19 on their ecosystem and has behaved in a monopolistic way.

88:24 If they had acted in good faith,

88:27 this probably wouldn't have come to bite them,

88:29 but they didn't and so it has.

88:30 Too bad.

88:33 I don't feel bad for them.

88:34 I just can't.

88:35 They've been just arseholes to deal with.

88:38 Yeah, absolutely.

88:40 At like every turn.

88:41 They've made their bed.

88:42 Now they sleep in it.

88:43 Yeah.

88:44 I'm glad the EU actually

88:45 has the stones to do this.

88:47 Now, the next discussion question is,

88:49 what would a more open iPhone look like?

88:50 Would you be more or less likely to buy one

88:53 if it supported third-party app stores and sideloading?

88:57 Because man, with sideloading, I'm imagining anyway,

89:00 a lot more functionality that I just can't get

89:03 unless I want to jailbreak this stupid thing.

89:05 Yeah, I think it really depends.

89:07 It depends what services start putting themselves up

89:12 to be sideloaded.

89:12 It depends if users really start actually doing it

89:16 at all, because if users don't do it,

89:19 then companies aren't going to bother running that setup anyways.

89:22 Like there's a lot of variables there.

89:24 I think it's one of those things where like first generation

89:26 of it might not necessarily matter too much,

89:29 but it'll be interesting to see how it evolves over time.

89:34 I have another discussion question.

89:37 Would Flowplane just immediately go the sideloading route

89:41 or would we try and stay on the app store?

89:43 Because I know which way I lean right now,

89:45 but let's have executive dialogue here.

89:48 Let's talk about synergies.

89:50 One problem with sideloading and one of the reasons

89:54 why we've avoided sending out packages like that

89:56 in the past is updates.

89:57 Yeah, absolutely.

89:59 We don't have an in-app updater.

90:00 That is something that is possible,

90:02 but that is a tool that we would have to make.

90:03 Which costs money.

90:04 Yeah.

90:05 So I don't know, it really depends.

90:08 I could definitely see someone making like some open source

90:14 like package updater for iPhones or something.

90:17 Yeah.

90:18 Or like an updated app store.

90:19 Or that.

90:20 Might have their own updater, yep.

90:21 Yeah.

90:22 So if, I mean, there's a lot of potential there.

90:27 There's definitely a lot more we could do with the app.

90:30 If we could just let it get sideloaded.

90:34 There's a lot of things that we've been stopped from doing.

90:36 Like we'll get complaints.

90:37 People will email customer support and they're like,

90:39 hey, this isn't very intuitive.

90:41 It's like, you are 100% correct.

90:44 I completely agree with you.

90:46 And I apologize that there's nothing we can do about it.

90:48 Yeah.

90:49 Like we can't.

90:50 They're like, it would be really great

90:52 if when I go to try to do this thing,

90:54 it could tell me that like I have to do it on the website.

90:56 And it's like, yep, that would be awesome.

90:59 But we can't.

90:59 We can't send you to our website, sorry.

91:02 It is what it is.

91:03 Ridiculous.

91:04 Yeah, it's just.

91:05 And they've gotten a little bit better with it over time.

91:08 But like, it's still far from

91:09 what I would consider acceptable.

91:12 Yeah.

91:15 I think merch messages are much more under control.

91:18 There's three potentials.

91:21 No incoming, and then we have 15 curated.

91:23 So we have a lot to go through, but the wave has subsided.

91:29 Let me jump through a couple of these really quickly.

91:32 Epic Games is gonna be paying half a billion dollars

91:36 for COPPA violations and the use of dark patterns.

91:39 Are you familiar with dark patterns?

91:41 Yeah.

91:42 I would think that you would be.

91:42 Good.

91:43 Then why don't you explain them?

91:44 Because you probably know more about them than I do.

91:45 So a dark pattern,

91:47 and I apologize if I explain this poorly,

91:49 but a dark pattern is like,

91:52 trying to mislead or trick users in certain ways.

91:56 Yeah.

91:57 Like manipulate your website or your service so that.

92:02 Manipulate the appearance of things,

92:04 manipulate the user experience of things

92:05 like where you position different buttons,

92:08 manipulate things to try to funnel people

92:10 in a certain direction,

92:11 which is probably not something that they would want to do.

92:14 Yeah.

92:15 So like if you kind of obscure your sign up

92:18 to a newsletter thing,

92:20 and it's a checkbox,

92:21 and it's automatically checked,

92:22 but it's like really small

92:23 and it's somewhere that you wouldn't expect.

92:24 That'd be a dark pattern.

92:25 That would be a dark pattern.

92:26 Or if you have like a buy now button, okay,

92:31 for a product someone might want.

92:33 And then in very small text,

92:35 it says you authorize us to send you one of these every month.

92:38 Yeah.

92:39 And you didn't realize that you were.

92:40 Recurring subscription.

92:41 Signing up for a subscription service.

92:42 That would be a dark pattern.

92:44 So it's using subtlety to get users to do inputs

92:49 that are not what they actually want.

92:51 So $245 million of the settlement

92:56 is in refunds for dark patterns and billing practices

92:59 that essentially made it too easy

93:02 to make purchases in game,

93:03 often accidentally, according to the FTC.

93:06 It is claimed that Epic would intentionally

93:08 switch button positions to create situations

93:12 where charges were made with a single button press.

93:15 Charges would also be made

93:16 when the game would be woken from sleep mode

93:18 through these dark patterns of deceitful UI.

93:20 Until 2018, Epic would allow charges to be made

93:23 without cardholder action or approval.

93:25 So by default, simple button presses would lead to charges.

93:29 The rest of it is for violating

93:32 the Children's Online Privacy Protection Act, COPPA,

93:35 by not including adequate parental controls,

93:38 collecting children's personal information

93:39 without parental consent,

93:41 and using overly relaxed privacy settings

93:43 that included text and voice chat being active by default,

93:47 which I think we can all agree is not good.

93:51 I don't want to hear their annoying voices.

93:55 Sorry, what were you talking about?

93:59 Other examples, by the way, can include things like,

94:01 some of these were brought up in Floatplane chat.

94:03 If you're trying to unsubscribe from something,

94:05 the cancel button being really big and obvious

94:07 and the unsubscribe button being a hyperlink

94:10 that you can barely even tell is a button,

94:13 one that you see fairly often with subscriptions.

94:16 Man, I was, okay, so a little while ago,

94:22 my grandfather passed away and we were going through

94:25 and canceling some of his online subscriptions

94:27 and accounts and things, and he had Amazon Prime.

94:30 Canceling Amazon Prime is hard.

94:34 Why is it so hard?

94:36 Because Daddy Bezos needs more yachts.

94:38 And I legitimately think, I almost, man, I had told myself

94:42 I wanted to rage on the WAN Show about this,

94:44 and I think I forgot about it,

94:45 but I think it's genuinely like oppressive to old people.

94:50 Yeah.

94:50 Because it's really confusing.

94:52 And they move around where you need

94:55 to press the cancel button,

94:56 and they frame it in a bunch of really weird ways.

94:58 And the website feels like it degrades.

95:01 It feels like you go back to 1990s internet,

95:04 because you get these weird ancient UIs

95:06 as you're going through.

95:07 And it's very weird.

95:09 You feel like you're doing something wrong.

95:13 It's so not okay, in my opinion.

95:16 I don't know.

95:17 It actually bothered me a lot.

95:19 I already don't exactly have the most positive

95:22 relationship with Amazon, so I do have to consider that.

95:26 But it was actually really terrible.

95:29 Yeah, Luke was probably in more of a hurry

95:31 to cancel a Prime subscription than most people would be.

95:34 Yeah, that's probably fair enough.

95:36 But another thing, and this is not a drag on him,

95:39 he had multiple Amazon accounts that we ended up figuring out.

95:44 It's really easy to accidentally do that.

95:45 Had multiple Prime subscriptions.

95:49 It should be way harder to do that.

95:51 Yep.

95:52 Like, I just, man.

95:53 I don't know.

95:55 Someone in full-plane chat just said,

95:56 I'm a sysadmin, and it took me 20 minutes to cancel Prime.

96:00 That should be one click.

96:01 That should not be okay.

96:04 Like, that's actually crazy.

96:06 I don't know.

96:07 In my opinion, that's an extremely egregious version

96:10 of like a dark pattern.

96:12 Yeah, it's trying to push people to not do the thing

96:15 that you don't want them to do.

96:18 So, yeah.

96:21 I just wanted to read this comment from Jedi2,

96:25 tagging Dan.

96:26 You guys handled the outage well.

96:27 Very impressed the show wasn't canceled tonight.

96:30 Luke and I have a streak, okay?

96:32 Yeah, it's not allowed to happen.

96:33 It never entered my mind

96:35 that the show was not going to go on tonight.

96:38 I will not be responsible for breaking the streak.

96:41 No one here is gonna be the one to break the streak.

96:45 I was told that I have too much vacation time recently,

96:49 so I had to book some vacation time.

96:50 And when I was trying to figure out when I could book it,

96:53 I was describing like, okay, I could do these things.

96:54 I could do these things, whatever.

96:55 I was like, I can't take Fridays off.

96:57 It's just, it's not an option.

96:58 I was like, WAN Show must go on.

97:03 When I was traveling, I technically had those Fridays off,

97:05 but I was just like, no.

97:07 I'm on vacation this week.

97:08 Yeah, perfect example.

97:10 You know that.

97:11 Yeah, it's gonna happen.

97:12 WAN Show must go on.

97:14 I'm on vacation right now.

97:16 What's up?

97:20 Speaking of things that might have brought people

97:22 back from vacation.

97:24 This isn't really properly in the doc,

97:26 but the write-up by Scotty Seng on the forum is quite good.

97:30 So we're gonna use that.

97:31 Alert for LastPass users.

97:33 The breach in August was worse than expected.

97:37 A lot worse.

97:38 I use LastPass.

97:39 I've hated it for so long,

97:41 but I have assigned the task

97:42 of switching our corporate password manager

97:45 over to something else to multiple people

97:47 for like almost two years now.

97:49 And it hasn't been done.

97:50 Actually over a year.

97:51 I think I'm gonna take the mantle.

97:53 Are you?

97:54 That would be great.

97:55 Thanks.

97:56 Yeah.

97:56 Can we go with,

97:57 is KeePass the one that has the local nonsense?

98:00 I don't know.

98:01 Well, I want that one.

98:01 I haven't done research in like basically at all.

98:04 I just, I've been like frustrated

98:05 that we haven't switched for quite a while.

98:07 And then this article came out and I was like, we're moving.

98:11 It's like, I'm gonna find a way.

98:12 I'm gonna get it done.

98:13 We're moving.

98:14 We have to move.

98:15 But anyways, yeah.

98:16 Previously mentioned breach in August.

98:18 LastPass mentioned encrypted data was downloaded,

98:20 but still secure.

98:22 However, this recent update states that the breach was worse.

98:24 Than expected as actors can brute force,

98:26 decrypt the copied backup vaults that were removed

98:30 out of their LastPass secured cloud containers.

98:33 LastPass is advertising users to, sorry,

98:36 advising users to reset and update all passwords,

98:39 especially the master password.

98:42 This is not exactly.

98:44 The worst part is that there's information

98:48 that is stored in plain text.

98:51 Yeah.

98:51 So this is-

98:52 Usernames and passwords.

98:53 Not so much.

98:54 Not so much.

98:55 But the, as far as I can tell the main account information.

99:00 So the name, email address is accessible to the hackers

99:06 and the URLs.

99:08 Yes, the URLs.

99:09 Were stored in plain text.

99:10 Yep.

99:11 So what that does is it makes the process of going through

99:16 and trying to brute force the username and password

99:19 much easier if you know what service it's for.

99:23 So that's one thing.

99:25 And number two is the entire web history of a user

99:31 is pretty valuable, even without the usernames and passwords.

99:36 And you would have it because they're tied.

99:39 It's not the entire web history.

99:41 Well, it's everywhere you have an account.

99:44 Yeah.

99:45 It's very similar, but not the same.

99:46 I'm just saying.

99:47 Sure.

99:48 I'm just saying.

99:49 But yeah, it's, I mean, this is horrible.

99:51 Yeah.

99:55 I'm just going to get out in front of it.

99:57 I look at some bad stuff on the internet.

100:00 Sure.

100:01 Mine leaks, whatever, there's stuff in there.

100:06 Yeah.

100:07 And like one of the things too, is like people can say

100:10 like these master passwords are going to be basically

100:12 impossible to brute force.

100:13 It's a non-zero possibility.

100:16 And like compute, it's going like this.

100:19 Yep.

100:20 And people can find ways to break certain types

100:23 of encryption and all this other type of stuff.

100:25 So you should update all of your passwords

100:29 and that's gonna suck, but you should do it anyways.

100:34 And you should leave LastPass.

100:36 That would be my suggestion.

100:38 Yeah.

100:39 Yep.

100:40 So we need to update all of our passwords.

100:43 Yep.

100:44 And we need to leave LastPass.

100:45 Especially our passwords for celebrityfeetpics.com.

100:47 Yeah.

100:47 Do you got that one?

100:48 I don't even know if that's a real site.

100:49 It probably is.

100:50 I think, I think.

100:51 It has to be.

100:52 Isn't, there's some, there's some website that does that.

100:55 I don't know if it's called that.

100:56 Oh, I'm sure there is.

100:57 This particular one isn't it.

101:00 Nope.

101:01 It's, it's this at the moment.

101:03 Oh.

101:04 So it seems to be parked.

101:05 Yeah, it's parked.

101:06 There's, there's something like that though.

101:07 Oh, I'm sure there is.

101:08 Cause I remember like forever ago,

101:09 you were on there or something.

101:12 On where?

101:13 I think we like joked about it.

101:14 You were on some website that like tracks celebrity feet

101:18 pics.

101:18 Shut up.

101:19 I guarantee this is a thing.

101:24 I did not think this was going to be something we were going

101:26 to be looking up on WAN Show today.

101:27 Um, but I like.

101:30 Men.wikifeet?

101:31 Wikifeet.

101:32 Yeah.

101:34 Hmm.

101:35 Interesting.

101:36 Yep.

101:37 Is that you?

101:38 I mean, this is.

101:39 Yeah.

101:40 This almost certainly is.

101:41 This is.

101:42 I'm pretty sure this is.

101:44 Yep.

101:45 This is my old bathroom scale.

101:47 That's definitely my towel.

101:48 Yeah.

101:49 Huh.

101:50 That's weird.

101:51 Oh, you might want to close the page.

101:52 I think there was something.

101:53 No, no, no, no.

101:54 Close it.

101:55 Just close the page.

101:55 Just close the page.

101:58 Okay.

101:59 I see.

101:59 Yeah.

102:00 Nope.

102:03 Anywho.

102:03 It is what it is.

102:10 A UK regulator warns that sharing Netflix passwords

102:13 may be illegal.

102:16 Oh.

102:16 UK's Intellectual Property Office said on Tuesday

102:21 that sharing passwords to access content

102:23 breaks copyright law.

102:26 The comment was seemingly unsolicited

102:28 as Netflix has never stated that it would take legal action

102:30 against British people

102:31 for sharing passwords, which is jolly good of them, I suppose.

102:35 And since making the comment,

102:37 the IPO has removed references to password sharing

102:39 from the guidance portion of their website,

102:41 but a spokesperson confirmed the agency's stance

102:44 on the matter, saying there are a range of provisions

102:46 in criminal and civil law, which may be applicable

102:49 in the case of password sharing,

102:50 where the intent is to allow a user

102:52 to access copyright protected works without payment.

102:55 TLDR, sharing a password is illegal

102:57 in both a criminal and civil sense,

102:59 according to this particular.

103:00 It's okay.

103:01 Sorry, I'm gonna.

103:02 Body.

103:03 I'm gonna interject for a second.

103:04 What now?

103:05 People pointed out that you didn't notice

103:07 that was a problem because you don't see ads.

103:15 It's true though.

103:16 It just happened.

103:18 We weren't kidding.

103:19 It's actually a thing.

103:26 Oh, I find that so funny.

103:28 Remember those, remember those ads

103:32 that would have like a super attractive,

103:34 attractive woman, and then it would be like,

103:37 by the way, there's a car in the picture or whatever.

103:40 Oh yeah, sure.

103:41 That's super like cringe style of ad.

103:44 Yeah.

103:45 You just see the car.

103:46 Well, no, I just didn't see anything.

103:47 You wouldn't see anything.

103:49 Okay.

103:51 Did you see the delay?

103:52 How long it took for me to find a pair of breasts

103:55 on a webpage?

103:59 Doesn't see the ad.

104:00 I can't see it.

104:01 It doesn't matter what's on the ad.

104:03 If it's an ad, I can't see it.

104:07 It's invisible to me.

104:09 We try, I'm so happy that we now have like really good proof

104:13 because like, I know it's a thing,

104:15 but when you try to tell people,

104:16 I think a lot of people are like, oh yeah, sure.

104:18 Whatever.

104:19 Like, I don't, I'm not affected by ads.

104:21 No, he doesn't see them.

104:23 It's different.

104:24 Like it's actually fundamentally different.

104:30 So it was like, Linus is ad block.

104:31 Yeah.

104:32 I can get annoyed by them.

104:33 Like the video we were shooting earlier

104:36 with the worst videos,

104:37 we were logged into the Linus Tech Tips,

104:40 Google ads, Google account.

104:42 Yeah.

104:43 Because that's the only way for us to see

104:45 the true like dislike ratio,

104:47 which kind of helps when we're watching the content

104:49 and trying to figure out what was so bad about it, right?

104:51 And we don't have premium on that account.

104:53 And I was annoyed by waiting

104:56 to watch the video I want to watch,

104:58 but I couldn't tell you a single thing we saw an ad for.

105:02 Not a single one.

105:03 I have no idea.

105:05 All I really remember was registering because I,

105:08 we've talked about this before, I have a premium account.

105:10 All I remember was registering that there was like,

105:12 we had to wait eight seconds for the current one

105:14 and there was another one coming.

105:15 And I was like, oh my goodness, this is crazy.

105:17 But I don't remember what the ads were.

105:19 That's because all I'm looking at is that timer

105:21 for when I can click skip.

105:22 Yeah.

105:23 That's literally the only thing interesting.

105:24 Becomes like a reaction timing game.

105:26 As soon as I realized I can't skip it,

105:28 my attention is somewhere else.

105:30 It sure as heck isn't on my computer.

105:32 Yeah. Yeah.

105:34 But yeah, sorry.

105:35 That was just, that was really funny.

105:37 Anywho, despite no streaming service ever,

105:40 so much as hinting at pursuing legal action

105:42 against password sharers,

105:45 CPS, the Crown Prosecution Service,

105:49 has not ruled out the possibility

105:50 of it seeking criminal charges against people

105:52 that privateer password from their friends and loved ones.

105:55 That's gotta be wild.

105:56 Oh, they would need to have the case referred to them.

106:00 So one of the streaming services

106:01 would have to pursue legal action.

106:04 Interesting.

106:04 I mean, I don't think this is gonna happen.

106:06 To put this in perspective,

106:07 torrenting could carry a sentence of up to 10 years.

106:10 It was raised from two years in 2017

106:12 on the recommendation of the IPO.

106:14 However, most prison sentences for piracy

106:16 have been for those running torrent sites or live streams.

106:20 Here's our discussion question.

106:21 Oh boy.

106:22 If Floatgain were to pursue legal action

106:23 against someone for sharing a password,

106:25 what would you anticipate the fallout to be like?

106:28 Terrible.

106:29 We have never considered pursuing legal action for that.

106:32 We actually have some stuff that kind of tracks it.

106:34 Really?

106:35 I didn't even know.

106:36 I know of a couple accounts

106:37 that like are almost certainly doing that.

106:40 We have banned an account for doing it,

106:42 at least one account for doing it on like a mass scale.

106:45 I know about that.

106:46 But when we think it's probably a situation,

106:50 like I ran into one where I actually ended up

106:53 talking to them about it.

106:54 This was like a few years ago when I used to stream.

106:57 But they came into my stream and I was like,

106:58 oh, it's you, you have the same username.

107:00 And I just asked them about it.

107:01 And it was like, it was on one IP for like, a second.

107:02 And it was like, it was on one IP for like, a second.

107:03 And it was like, it was on one IP for like, a second.

107:04 And it was like, it was on one IP for like, a second.

107:05 And it was like, it was on one IP for like, a second.

107:06 And then it was on two IPs.

107:07 And then it was on two IPs.

107:08 And it was on two IPs.

107:09 Yeah.

107:09 And it's like, huh?

107:10 And they were like, yeah, I mean,

107:11 my brother and I shared an account when we lived together.

107:14 And then I don't remember the exact details,

107:15 but it was something along the lines of like,

107:17 I went to university or whatever,

107:18 we both still use the account.

107:19 And I'm like, cool.

107:20 I was half expecting it to be,

107:22 I was half expecting it to be my parents divorced.

107:25 Oh, well, no, okay, the thing that we were seeing

107:28 was it being used at the same time.

107:30 Right, okay, sure, sure, sure.

107:31 So like-

107:33 And my parents watched the land show.

107:36 But yeah, like, I don't care about that.

107:39 I don't, I'm not encouraging people to do this,

107:42 but like, if it's within reason, I don't-

107:45 I don't think we've ever really taken a stance on it.

107:47 Yeah, the problem is when you post like,

107:49 your username and login on some forum

107:51 and you're like, how about it, God?

107:53 Like, that's when it becomes an issue,

107:55 if you're sharing it with-

107:56 Or if you're using your account to download the material

107:59 and then redistributing it, then obviously-

108:01 Yeah, there's-

108:01 There's issues there, but as long as you're not like,

108:04 really abusing it, like, we don't really care.

108:08 What if Flowplane was 300 times the size?

108:10 I mean, I'm sure we would see it the same way as we do now,

108:13 to be completely honest.

108:15 We would be not happy with people

108:17 that were mass sharing it,

108:21 but in the way that I think a lot of Netflix accounts

108:24 were shared back in the day,

108:25 I think it would kind of be fine.

108:29 I don't know, yeah.

108:32 We should do some merch messages.

108:33 Yeah.

108:34 Because those we definitely,

108:36 those definitely help us survive.

108:38 Yeah.

108:40 All right, hit us, Dan.

108:41 Okay, I've got one here from-

108:42 You're up.

108:44 Hey, Linus and Luke, and behind the scenes people,

108:46 liking the spooky WAN Show.

108:47 Yeah, should we go spooky for the rest of merch messages?

108:50 Okay, sure.

108:51 I'm down, let's do it, I'll do it.

108:52 No, no, you got it, you got your thing, you got your thing.

108:53 Okay, wanted to ask Linus

108:55 when the Secret Shopper Part Three is coming.

108:58 Oh, okay. Been waiting for a while.

108:59 So I wanted to interject on this one,

109:00 and I actually wanted to answer this one,

109:02 although he's probably gonna say this, too.

109:03 He's probably gonna say the same thing.

109:05 The whole point is that we can't tell you,

109:08 because the, and I wanted to make sure I said that

109:10 before he potentially says something else.

109:11 Okay, yeah, yeah.

109:12 Because the companies can't know it's coming.

109:14 Yep.

109:15 So-

109:16 Has to be, boom, out of nowhere.

109:17 Yep.

109:18 You never expect the Spanish Inquisition.

109:20 Yeah, so sorry, but no.

109:23 Yeah, there will be another one.

109:25 It might be happening now.

109:26 It might be happening in a couple of years.

109:28 It might've happened already.

109:29 Who knows?

109:30 We might've filmed it all already.

109:31 Can't tell you anything, I'm sorry.

109:32 Yeah.

109:34 Are you a mole?

109:35 Who do you work for?

109:37 Is it iBUYPOWER?

109:38 Is it Maingear?

109:39 Is it Dell?

109:40 Tell me!

109:42 No, it's not Dell.

109:43 Dell doesn't care.

109:46 All right, I got another one here from Tom.

109:47 Hi, guys.

109:48 Do you think overclocking is slowly fading away

109:50 now that CPUs and GPUs are already pushing the limits?

109:53 Yes.

109:54 Yes.

109:55 Easy, quick.

109:56 Got another one here from Jake.

109:57 Hi, Linus.

109:57 Do you seem to enjoy making some videos

109:59 a lot more than others,

110:00 like the recent chat GPT PC build?

110:03 Do you ever wish you could do

110:04 I've missed that.

110:05 session project videos?

110:06 And do you, would you need a smaller channel slash team

110:09 to be able to do so?

110:10 Merry Christmas all.

110:12 I mean, you're already seeing that,

110:14 you're already seeing that process playing out, right?

110:16 Like that's where the smaller channels

110:18 like ShortCircuit are coming from.

110:19 ShortCircuit's a way for us to cover products

110:21 that just wouldn't get enough eyeballs on them

110:23 to justify uploading to LTT

110:25 because it would just harm the channel.

110:27 And you're gonna see a lot more of it.

110:29 I think you can expect to see more niche channels

110:32 as the lab team builds out their testing

110:34 capabilities and we have all this data

110:36 and we need to publish it somehow, right?

110:38 Yeah.

110:39 In text is great, but it doesn't make any money.

110:40 So obviously we're gonna continue to do what we do best,

110:43 which is create video content.

110:46 So yeah, you're gonna see that a lot going forward.

110:50 Now, with all of that said,

110:52 I think you might be getting a,

110:55 I may, I think sometimes people can get the wrong vibe

111:00 just because I take on, for example,

111:02 a more serious tone in a video doesn't mean I'm having, you know, a more serious tone in a video doesn't mean I'm having, you know, a more serious tone in a video doesn't mean I'm having, you know, a more serious tone in a video doesn't mean I'm having, you know,

111:05 less fun in the creation process

111:07 or that I don't think it's more important

111:08 or that I don't think it's as important.

111:10 Sometimes I think it's more important,

111:12 but you also can't have the same amount of fun

111:15 in everything you do.

111:16 So like if we were to go through the last few videos,

111:19 yeah, this doing everything the chat bot says was a blast

111:23 because I'm super, super into this technology.

111:26 And a lot of the time, you know,

111:28 when we come up with a video concept,

111:30 the whole reason that we're doing it

111:33 is because it's something I want to talk

111:35 about and then we just need kind of a vehicle for that.

111:38 So building a computer was just an excuse

111:40 to talk about chat GPT in a mainline video.

111:43 This one I had a blast with.

111:44 I mean, Jeff and I have never really gotten a chance

111:46 to hang out outside of, you know, a few

111:50 small encounters at like, you know, work events and stuff like that.

111:54 And so I always enjoy Intel Extreme Tech Upgrade.

111:56 And I think that comes through in the videos.

111:58 People love Intel Extreme Tech Upgrade.

112:01 This one was really stressful.

112:03 It was a really fun idea.

112:05 Like doing tech support.

112:06 But some of the tools we ran into some challenges

112:09 or rather the lines got flooded

112:12 and handling a flooded support line is like never fun.

112:15 So I think that did take a bit of the fun out of it.

112:17 There were elements of it that were super fun,

112:19 like Dr. Ian Cutress calling into the show.

112:21 And just bloody guy rolling you with like a crazy question.

112:24 Hey, I got it, though. I'm feeling good about that.

112:27 It's pretty good.

112:29 Sponsored stuff is always challenging, right?

112:31 Like I said, everything that I wanted to say,

112:35 but that back and forth, I'm so glad that I have a sales team

112:39 that kind of deals with all of that for me now,

112:40 where the brand will come and say, oh, we don't like the way you worded it.

112:43 And I'll say too bad.

112:45 And then our sales team gets to kind of play Messenger in between.

112:49 But this is a super cool monitor.

112:51 I had fun with that.

112:52 The fake merch, always a lot of fun for me.

112:54 Working with the Hacksmith team, total blast.

112:57 Like there's nothing in here, this monitor, I was not that interested in.

113:01 And then I actually used it.

113:02 And all of a sudden I was like, whoa, this is super cool.

113:04 Love, I mean, we don't really make a lot of videos

113:12 about stuff that I'm not interested in.

113:16 Because I hand select pretty much every topic.

113:21 Not all, but very many.

113:25 Is there anything, okay, I did not hand select for us

113:28 to forget about Luke's portion of the part one of the art challenge.

113:33 This I hand selected.

113:34 This I hand selected.

113:36 This I didn't hand select.

113:37 This was pitched to me.

113:38 Tanner pitched this, adding USB-C to old consoles.

113:43 That was cool.

113:43 But when he pitched it, initially I was like, uh-huh, and?

113:47 And then when he explained it, I was like, whoa, that's so cool.

113:49 And so, yeah, I'm super into it.

113:52 You know what?

113:52 I think what you might see in a video like this is that I didn't get to play

113:56 around with it firsthand as much.

113:58 If I'd gotten to really play with it, I think you might have seen a bit more

114:02 animation on my side.

114:04 Sometimes.

114:04 Sometimes it's the end of the day, and I'm kind of tired, like I'm doing my best.

114:08 But no matter how enthusiastic I am about something, I still do have to present.

114:13 My job is not just as simple as being someone who's into this stuff and talking

114:18 about it, and I wish it was, because it'd be a lot easier to hire people to help me

114:22 with it.

114:24 But Luke knows.

114:25 I mean, it's not something people can just pick up overnight.

114:28 Try it.

114:28 Go make a video.

114:29 It's really hard.

114:30 Try to get views on YouTube.

114:32 Yeah.

114:33 It is a real job, and I'm glad that you almost never see that anymore.

114:38 You know, well, if you want to make money, get a real job instead of being a YouTuber.

114:42 It is a real job.

114:43 It's not easy.

114:45 Yeah.

114:47 The mood lighting is a throwback to when the power went out earlier on the show,

114:50 for those of you who are just joining us.

114:53 What else you got for us, Dan?

114:55 OK, I got one here from Jose.

114:57 Oh, it's in, yeah, it's in Mexican.

115:00 Saludos desde Mexico.

115:02 I'm awful at this.

115:03 I hope you have a great holiday.

115:04 I would like to know how the dual audio project is going.

115:08 Love your videos, but some friends don't speak English,

115:11 so the dub would help a lot to show this amazing channel.

115:15 Still in progress.

115:17 I haven't gotten an update from Ed on it in the last little while,

115:20 but we've been just kind of trying to push through the product releases and

115:24 Q4 is a thing.

115:24 Limited people availability due to weather, due to the time of year.

115:29 That's been a backburner project compared to LTT videos must be shot.

115:34 Because that's ultimately what pays the bills.

115:38 So I wish I had an update for you, but I'm afraid that I don't for the moment.

115:41 OK, I got another one here from Kevin.

115:48 Can you test whether lifting a laptop by its palm rest causes...

115:51 You answered this earlier, didn't you?

115:52 Yes.

115:53 I probably didn't deal with it properly.

115:54 Cool idea.

115:55 Anonymous.

115:56 Hey, guys, I'm waiting to get into IT soon.

115:59 And with the technical difficulties experienced tonight, I was wondering how help desk issues

116:03 are solved at LMG.

116:04 Oh, we did this one, too.

116:05 OK, it's me.

116:06 Did you do that?

116:07 Yeah.

116:08 Did you do this one?

116:10 No.

116:11 Colin, shout out from Korea.

116:12 In VR benchmarks, there are different experiences based on hardware setups, and even minor hardware

116:18 changes have significant implications.

116:21 Given VR requires a human interaction, how would you try to objectively make a comparable

116:27 VR benchmark?

116:28 It's really challenging because the level of detail changes constantly and can change

116:35 depending on, like you said, a human interaction with the headset.

116:38 Or with the in-game environment.

116:39 We do have an expert on staff now.

116:40 I think he's actually in the chat.

116:41 Jake, are you in the chat?

116:42 Other, more different Jake, who has a lot of experience in machine vision from mobile

116:43 benchmarking, which has a lot of the same challenges.

116:44 And I think it's something that we're going to be able to solve in the long term, but

116:45 it's going to take some time.

116:46 OK.

116:47 Got another one here from Jay.

116:48 Hope Luke's house gets fixed quickly.

116:49 Me, too.

116:50 Do you think we'll ever start seeing a new house?

116:51 No.

116:52 No.

116:53 No.

116:54 No.

116:55 No.

116:56 No.

116:57 No.

116:58 No.

116:59 No.

117:00 No.

117:01 No.

117:04 No.

117:05 No.

117:06 No.

117:07 No.

117:08 No.

117:09 No.

117:10 No.

117:11 No.

117:12 No.

117:13 No.

117:14 No.

117:15 No.

117:16 No.

117:17 No.

117:18 No.

117:19 No.

117:20 No.

117:21 No.

117:22 No.

117:23 No.

117:24 No.

117:25 No.

117:26 No.

117:27 No.

117:28 No.

117:29 No.

117:30 No.

117:31 No.

117:32 No.

117:33 No.

117:34 No.

117:35 No.

117:36 No.

117:37 No.

117:38 No.

117:39 I think rather than create like the the memory cost is not a huge amount compared to the overall

117:48 bill of materials for our card over you know 250 300 which is almost all of them now so I don't

117:55 think it is worthwhile for our company to create these different SKUs unless they think there's a

118:02 very compelling competitive reason I think we've seen reactionary reactionary responses to a lower

118:10 end competitor with less VRAM for example to keep costs under control but very rarely do we see not

118:17 at least since the 900 series I think very rarely do no 10 series had a 3 gig and a 6 gig version

118:23 of the 1060 if I recall correctly very rarely do we see NVIDIA go out of their way and AMD for that

118:28 matter to have different VRAM versions of their cards lately and yeah my my guess is just that

118:35 they don't want to support more versions of the SKU why have one that is

118:39 effectively more effective than the 1060 and the 1060 and the 1060 and the 1060 and the 1060 and

118:40 are effectively obsolete before the other one if it doesn't actually save that much on the bill of

118:43 materials the 3080 had 10 and 12 but those were not quite exactly the same card if I recall correctly

118:50 and again that different version kind of came along later it wasn't just yeah we've got an 8 gig

118:56 and a 4 gig version of this card right out of the gate like I think the last one I can remember that

119:00 was like that was the RX 480 I think just or 470 one of them I think just had a four and an 8 gig

119:06 version don't quote me on that though okay got another one here from anonymous Linus

119:14 Linus and Luke what would it take for me to get an LTT backpack signed by as many people on both

119:19 teams as possible go to LTX go to LTX yeah that's why I curated that question yeah that's your only

119:25 chance we literally don't even ship the products from this warehouse so how would I sign it yeah

119:31 like I'm not in that I've been in that warehouse once yeah it's like actually not a thing but

119:37 pretty much the whole team is going to be there I'm assuming I think a lot of people are I think

119:40 it's one of those things where you don't have to be there but you better not miss it kind of things

119:44 yeah kind of like the Christmas party yeah that one here from Nathan Merry Christmas LMG crew and

119:50 families has a standoff tool or set of standoff bits ever been considered for the screwdriver

119:55 found myself needing some when replacing a motherboard recently yeah it doesn't fit in

120:00 the built-in bit holder so once we have yeah once we have a separate bit holding mechanism

120:05 we will absolutely do some socketed bits totally makes sense matter of time this one's from David

120:10 hey guys I've recently developed an addiction to buying 4K Blu-rays

120:14 after throwing an LG OLED and svf speakers in my bedroom any favorite go-to movies for putting your

120:21 home theater to the test so far mine's been Pacific Rim not the best writing but man does it I thought

120:28 you might have a good answer oh yeah not really I just um there's some really cool scenes in that

120:38 weird horror uh horror movie with the with the cult um man I can't remember what it's a lot

120:45 of horror movies yeah but they've burned they burn a barn at the end I don't know if it's like it's a

120:48 know anyway i'm not sure um this looks looks really great in HDR yeah 1917 is definitely a

120:55 good one chats uh chats getting us some good ones i refuse to ever put the hobbit on any screen in

121:00 my house good so that's cool oh no yeah midsummer that's the one uh blade runner 2049 not a great

121:10 one just the way it's mastered um we found out kind of later after it like it looks really great

121:15 but the way it's mastered doesn't really let um better HDR displays stretch their legs from my

121:21 understanding so we've we've stopped using it um yeah lala land is really beautiful yeah the

121:34 hurricane obviously you know since i own so many copies of it it's a whole thing i bought it on

121:40 dvhs for a video recently wow yeah it's worth watching dvhs is a hell of a drug okay i got

121:50 another one here what happened to the

121:52 GPU shirt design will it ever come back what happened to all of our shirt designs

121:56 right now we only have blank shirts i didn't know that yeah so our shirt printer our local

122:05 screen printer got evicted from his space um and like i don't know at risk of talking publicly

122:14 about you know dealings that have not been acknowledged publicly i'm just gonna say it

122:21 um

122:22 i don't understand uh the response that um our screen printer gave us when we basically said

122:30 hey we've got lab one sitting empty why don't you lease from us and like we're some way over

122:40 50 of your business anyway so you know why don't we why don't why don't we just we we don't want

122:48 a disruption we don't have another source we don't want a disruption in your business you

122:53 know what i'm saying you know we don't want a disruption in your business obviously you know

122:55 we're gonna help take care of you because we don't want a disruption in your business

122:58 we know it muddies the waters a little bit but it would be at just it would be at a market rate

123:02 we're not looking to screw you over because we don't want any disruption to your business yeah

123:07 um you know the way that i saw it it would be more beneficial we'd have been happy to sign

123:12 a short-term lease uh just to make sure that there's no interruption to his business um

123:18 and basically the response was like from my point of view from like a from like a

123:23 a business planning standpoint i understand part of it you don't want to have too many eggs in one

123:28 basket you know you don't want to have that one client that's most of your sales and also your

123:33 landlord you know i like i get it but on the other hand your options are us or not running nothing

123:41 your business right now you could do like a one-year lease and figure it out after and like

123:46 we want to help you out um we've we've never done anything like evil to you so what makes you think

123:52 we're going to start now um so from from just like uh it seemed like a very emotional response

123:58 rather than a um uh a carefully considered response so i don't know uh we were looking

124:09 for alternatives we found one that's actually run by one of the companies that we work with

124:14 for overseas production but frankly and again no offense if you're watching this but the quality's

124:22 so we need something that matches what we were using before in terms of the quality

124:26 but we need we either need to find a new source for that or we need the person we've been working

124:32 with to pull his or her head out of their butt and figure out how to like actually print some

124:38 shirts instead of just like sitting and not printing shirts which is obviously not good

124:42 for their business um the badger hound says bro come on this is hubris that's a perfectly valid

124:48 reason you're just mad they said no well they should be mad they said no they are currently

124:53 working together it's not just for us for anyone that's not good that's bad um and like i said i

124:59 fully understand their discomfort which is why we were willing to offer a short-term lease nobody

125:03 does that uh maybe in the market you're in that's the thing uh here you you don't sign a one-year

125:09 commercial lease or anything like that less than what is it less than 0.1 i think commercial

125:13 vacancy yeah but it's one of those things where if we're if we're working together well we're

125:18 working together like you got to communicate you got to say look here are my concerns and we can do

125:23 what we can do and we can do what we can do and we can do what we can do and we can do what we can

125:23 to address it but if you're just going to kind of be irrational and just say no no i don't like it i

125:27 don't like i don't like it okay whatever then then i guess you're not printing shirts which is pretty

125:32 bad um oh next up yeah good luck with that got another one here from thomas hi Linus any update

125:45 on the summertime jacket hearing your thoughts on dealing with the hassle of sunscreen had hit

125:49 home for me would love to know if this is still happening or if it's just an idea

125:54 oh still happening yeah it should be out for next summer

125:56 uh the it's a great garment i absolutely love it i took it with me on my hawaii trip a little

126:01 while ago and was just just pleased his punch pleased his punch okay we've got one here from

126:10 seth i've been called petty what do you mean petty what are you talking about i'm telling you

126:17 facts you cannot like facts we tried to help offer a solution and it wasn't taken and now

126:26 it's really bad for everyone involved for everyone including the other person it's a

126:30 lose-lose nobody won what's pretty about it there's a uncomfortable or a lose-lose

126:38 yeah and the uncomfortable it's like yeah but you just got to like communicate it's

126:41 like any relationship you can just shut down

126:48 okay well then the relationship's over right or you work with people those are those are

126:53 really your only two options okay this one's from seth LTT video idea right ways of power management

127:04 tech ups surge protection went upgrade power to accommodate all the ltd talks about servers new

127:10 gen gaming pcs um yeah i mean really that's something that we're not going to be able to

127:17 cover in the kind of depth that we want to cover it until the psu tester is fully up and running

127:21 and maybe we have like a second one because it's going to be an enormous volume of devices to push

127:25 through it so in time in time okay i've got another one here from anonymous hey Linus i'm

127:36 absolutely loving the screwdriver i often find myself fidgeting with it instead of my usual

127:42 fidget toys and was wondering if you ever thought of making a high quality fidgets as i find a lot

127:46 of them to be lower quality yes we are already planning a fidget toy using the exact same

127:51 ratchet from the screwdriver it's not going to be cheap because it's a super expensive part

127:55 but i'm not going to apologize for that because it's going to be the best darn fidget ratchet

128:00 on the market that's all we hear all the time sorry not sorry just buy buy another

128:07 driver yeah um this one's from jacob gift cards until i can get a backpack what is y'all's take

128:13 on development teams releasing games in alpha stages to sell copies for cash flow and spending

128:19 10 years without leaving alpha or just never finishing the game

128:24 sorry um are you saying tarkov i don't know what you're talking about yeah tarkov's still in beta

128:31 uh tarkov if i don't know if that's clue or sorry true if you google is tarkov still in

128:37 beta it says it's enclosed beta i don't think it's enclosed i was able to buy a license for it fine

128:43 just fine i don't think it's enclosed close to anyone who doesn't have a credit card and pays

128:46 the money yeah yeah there you go um minecraft was another fairly notorious one minecraft was

128:52 in beta for like an extremely long time um citizen star citizen yeah i i mean it's a

129:01 it's a thing and it's uh it's kind of frustrating but i can also understand

129:07 a lot of the reasons why if i had to be honest when we were starting out with this game

129:11 um there's a couple of things that i can i was impressed with the game itself

129:14 first and foremost because of the most pullback rate it has so i i'm going to say out of the

129:19 way i don't know if you have a video game that has that kind of a pullback rate with arena i

129:23 would say that arena has a pullback rate pretty large um for the development team woes especially

129:28 from actually no pretty much only from indie development studios if you're a indie development

129:34 studio you've got a few people on staff you have a certain um amount of time you could run for is that

129:38 which I mean, is true if you sell enough copies

129:41 to keep your company going

129:43 and suddenly is immediately not true if you don't.

129:47 Yeah, but then the flip side of that

129:48 is if you don't sell any copies,

129:49 then maybe it just never gets made at all.

129:51 So if it's your only way,

129:54 but then it feels like in some cases

129:57 it might not have been the only way.

129:58 Yeah, it can be a little bit gross,

130:00 but I think it's just something

130:02 we're gonna have to live with.

130:06 Did we lose power again?

130:07 We had a flash over.

130:08 We had a flicker?

130:09 Yeah.

130:10 It was just a brown up.

130:10 Oh, you can hear it.

130:12 Well, we're almost done.

130:13 All right, all right.

130:14 But yeah, I think sometimes you gotta do what you gotta do

130:16 and I think sometimes it's abused and that is what it is.

130:18 Whoa, look at this.

130:21 Now would be a good time to insert ads.

130:23 There's a money button.

130:25 There's a money button.

130:27 Okay, hold on, let's do the math.

130:29 There's 9,900 viewers on YouTube.

130:32 Okay, hold on.

130:35 Okay, so what is it?

130:37 30 seconds for an ad.

130:38 So 0.5 minutes times 9,900 equals...

130:45 Okay, so hold on a second.

130:46 What is this?

130:47 Okay, this is 4,950 minutes.

130:50 Okay, divided by 60 equals 82 hours, right?

130:55 Am I doing this right so far?

130:57 I think so, yeah.

130:58 Okay, divided by 24.

131:00 Okay, so it's 3.4 days, which is about 1% of a year.

131:07 Okay, so now hold on a second.

131:08 If we assume an average lifespan of about 75 years,

131:12 then that would be, let's say, so 1% of a year,

131:16 0.1% of 10 years, point...

131:19 About, let's say about 0.01% of a human lifetime, okay?

131:24 How much is that worth?

131:24 So if every time I press this button,

131:27 I killed 0.01% of a human, would I keep pressing this button?

131:34 Let's get into it.

131:35 Let's get into it.

131:38 Let's talk moral and ethical dilemmas.

131:41 Oh my goodness.

131:44 If you could kill 0.01% of a human

131:47 every time you pressed a button-

131:49 How much would that be worth to you?

131:50 And you never knew any of them except your mom,

131:53 who watches The Land Show,

131:55 would you keep pressing the button, Luke?

131:57 Oh my goodness.

131:59 That is a dark but somewhat accurate way to look at that.

132:04 Yeah.

132:04 As long as I carry the zero,

132:05 yeah, I think it's a little bit less than that.

132:07 As the channel grows.

132:08 As the channel grows, man.

132:09 I would look at the cumulative hours

132:11 spent watching the content and I would do that math.

132:16 Like this is in the very early days and I'd go,

132:17 holy crap, LTT has consumed one lifetime.

132:22 Now it's 10 lifetimes.

132:24 Now it's a hundred lifetimes.

132:25 And I'm-

132:26 X amount of lifetimes, like a week or a day or whatever.

132:29 It would make me think about the value of it, you know?

132:33 Yeah.

132:33 Are we putting, are we working hard enough

132:35 to make sure that like, like this cost?

132:36 Yeah.

132:37 Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

132:38 And I think I've talked a lot on the show before

132:40 about how a central aspect of my personal morals

132:45 and ethics is human cost, right?

132:49 So when you steal a pack of dental floss, you know,

132:53 what is the human cost of that?

132:55 You know, fairly negligible.

132:57 Whereas when you steal an amount that's like equivalent

133:00 to a year's work for someone, you know,

133:03 I see that as like 1 50th of murder,

133:06 if you get what I mean.

133:07 Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

133:08 So you spent that time of their life doing something

133:12 that was only to get their house or their car

133:16 or whatever else it is.

133:17 It might even be worse than that though.

133:18 You're, you are, you're effectively,

133:20 you're effectively stealing.

133:23 What is that?

133:23 You're effectively stealing life from them.

133:25 And so I would reflect on this number and go like,

133:29 am I stealing life or am I enriching it?

133:31 You know, I got to-

133:32 Yeah.

133:33 Whew.

133:34 Yeah.

133:35 I don't know, just the kind of stuff

133:36 that keeps me up at night, you know?

133:39 Anywho.

133:42 Moving on.

133:44 I have another one for Michael.

133:45 What's the best Christmas gift you guys have gotten

133:48 from each other other than that was not work related?

133:52 We don't give gifts to each other.

133:53 The gift of not having to worry about it.

133:55 Yeah. That's the best gift.

133:56 It is a pretty good gift.

133:57 Yeah. Hey Luke, guess what?

133:59 Merry Christmas. I got you nothing.

134:00 Merry Christmas, man. Me too.

134:02 I, I was trying to think when I, so I curated that one.

134:05 I was trying to think if there was something

134:08 that we've ever like done.

134:10 But I think it's just always been-

134:15 Hey bro, I know you're busy.

134:16 Yeah.

134:17 Have a good one.

134:18 Yep. Which is solid.

134:19 Yeah.

134:20 That's a good way to go.

134:21 Yeah. It's good.

134:22 Yeah. We are, are, nope, I'm not going to say that.

134:28 I'll say this.

134:29 There are more people where I feel some amount of obligation

134:33 to give Christmas gifts to this year.

134:36 And it's a lot of people.

134:38 Yeah. It's a pain.

134:39 And like I-

134:40 I hate it.

134:41 I don't, I don't mind it as much as, as you do.

134:42 But at a certain point, I'm like trying to tally in my head.

134:48 I'm like, have I completed my shopping

134:52 for all these different people?

134:53 And I'm like, this is a lot of people.

134:57 And then trying to keep track of that.

134:58 And you don't want to just like run to a mall

135:00 and buy garbage the week before Christmas.

135:03 So you try to think about it like throughout the year.

135:05 And it's like, man, there's a lot of things to,

135:06 to like keep track of.

135:08 Yeah. But yeah.

135:10 My family's been talking about trying to like,

135:12 reduce and stuff.

135:13 Cause we like something that we do is we try to reuse

135:17 Christmas packing as much as possible.

135:19 Yeah.

135:19 So like brown paper bags are used very often.

135:23 Last year's tags that you put on things.

135:25 For sure.

135:25 We just put them in a box and you just re-tape it on.

135:27 Like, who cares?

135:28 We try to do stuff like that to make it less of a waste.

135:30 And we've all been communicating to each other

135:33 for a while now to like, don't try,

135:35 try to really avoid buying people things

135:37 that are likely going to end up being garbage.

135:39 Yeah. Right.

135:40 But we're-

135:42 we're probably going to continue down,

135:44 continue down that path to a certain degree.

135:46 Yeah.

135:46 We use a newspaper in my family.

135:48 Cool. Yeah. That's a good one.

135:50 We've run out of newspaper.

135:52 It's become a problem.

135:53 The only thing newspaper is good for.

135:54 So it makes sense that it's all getting used

135:56 to wrap presents.

135:57 Yep.

135:58 We used to use the comics pages specifically.

136:00 That's cool.

136:01 That's actually nice.

136:01 Yeah. That's actually pretty sweet.

136:02 Yeah. I try and do the princess auto for dad.

136:04 And then like, you know, anyway, this one's from Zachary.

136:08 Will you publish an external 3D model of the screwdriver?

136:11 Publishing the model is common in industry

136:13 and it would facilitate 3D printed LTT driver case

136:16 I'm designing.

136:17 PS, why no PH00, Phillips double zero

136:21 or PH triple zero bits in the Phillips set?

136:24 All right. You got a couple of questions here.

136:26 Yes, we have considered publishing an external 3D model

136:29 of the screwdriver.

136:30 We need to make sure that we have the proper authorization

136:33 from the other parties involved in the design.

136:35 So whatever we might feel about it, we,

136:37 it was a collaborative product.

136:39 So we need to make sure that everybody's on the same page.

136:41 Yeah. We'd, we'd love to make your life easier

136:47 for, for 3D printing the driver case you're designing.

136:49 So stay, stay tuned as for why no precision bits it's

136:55 because it's really not the intended use case of the product.

136:58 And we don't wanna encourage people to over-torque those kinds

137:00 of products with a, with a big old honking screwdriver.

137:03 That's really more for like computer work,

137:06 utility work around the house, automotive work.

137:10 That's why.

137:11 Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

137:12 tuned though our plan is to have a product where that type of a bit would be more appropriate

137:19 okay this one's from aj how did luke become the ceo of Floatplane were you offered the job or did

137:25 you apply ask for it i've heard you talk about coding development before did you do that before

137:31 you started working at ltd i find it very thematic uh that this came from a person named aj as aj was

137:38 the first person that we hired for the project and is still uh lucky instrument luckily to me

137:44 instrumental and is still working on the project um i am not tonight i am yeah he's bailing us out

137:50 potentially right now actually because as far as i know he can't download this second one until

137:55 we're done oh we should finish this he's on east coast time we should so we actually should close

137:59 this shout out aj thanks aj sorry thank you thank you this is not the first time and it will not be

138:07 the last time

138:08 that i call aj out of nowhere and i'm like hey uh i need you to save me uh he's in chat yeah hi

138:17 sorry thank you

138:21 um yeah uh i so i'm not the ceo of Floatplane um how is i how did i get the job well oh oh

138:28 yes i'm ceo and probably cto too is that official or is that just no effective i mean yeah he runs

138:35 it um let's put it that way yeah i

138:38 so when vessel went down vessel was a platform that we used to be on that did early access

138:43 video or whatever when vessel went down we started a thing on the forum which was just a sub part of

138:48 the forum called rip vessel and i found a way to mess with the forum software that we had to force

138:54 video to sort of maybe kind of go through it the idea was that people could download it and that

139:00 sort of worked and then we realized by accident that a bunch of browsers do you remember this

139:06 a bunch of browsers

139:08 would determine that they could just stream the video yeah as a download

139:13 s yeah it would just like play it and we were like wait what is it that easy that's pretty cool

139:18 this should be really easy to do and then uh spoiler alert

139:22 it's really hard um and then pretty early in i was like whoa i have no idea what i'm doing

139:30 uh and aj actually posted a big like i think it was a google doc that he shared

139:38 think that's how it was done, but he posted a big thing on the forum being like, uh, yeah,

139:43 by the way, here's a plan for like, probably a better, more proper way of doing what you're

139:49 trying to do. Um, and it was fairly similar to what Jake, Jake Tyvie and I had kind of

139:57 come up with, but again, we weren't really prepared and AJ's proposal for it was like

140:02 way better. So I was like, Hey, help me. Um, and then we've just been sort of doing it

140:07 ever since there was never really, I don't think there was ever really like I didn't

140:11 apply for it. I don't think I asked for it. Oh, definitely not. It just, yeah, it's, it

140:16 just sort of happened. It was a revenue source that we had absolutely no replacement for

140:22 that time. We really needed one that we needed and there was no other platform that was really

140:27 doing what vessel was doing. So we needed to port people somewhere and we needed it

140:32 now, which basically meant we needed to develop it internally.

140:35 And I was the only person who

140:37 had any chance and I barely had a chance and then AJ bailed me out. And then we brought

140:41 on, uh, Yuki not way too long after that, both of those peeps are still on the team

140:46 and still killing it. Um, and we would be nowhere without them. Um, and then we brought

140:52 up other people along the way and now we're here. I don't know. It just, it just, it sort

140:55 of happened. It was very not formal. I'll say that much next step.

141:02 All right. This is for Luke. Hey, okay. You pretty clearly play have played D and D or

141:08 other tabletop games.

141:08 I mean, I don't know if you've ever played a tabletop role-playing games. Could you talk

141:10 about that?

141:11 Sure. I'll, I'll try to make it relatively short. Played a bit of D and D in high school,

141:15 played a bit of D and D in university, played a bit of D and D after university. Never like

141:20 super seriously, always very socially. Um,

141:23 Oh, oh, oh, hot take spicy Luke coming out right at the end of the show.

141:31 No, no, it's sad. Luke. Oh, um, I, I rekindled the fire for that with Tyler.

141:37 Okay. Sorry. Yeah. Um,

141:40 So it's a bit of a sore topic for me now because I miss Tyler. Um, but I eventually, um, while

141:48 knowing Tyler and I actually got Tyler kind of into it and he ended up running a campaign

141:53 of this, um, without me, cause I couldn't play on the night that he wanted to run it

141:56 and stuff, but we used to talk about this stuff all the time. Um, but I ended up playing

142:01 edge of the empire with, uh, my brother and a couple of my, uh, my other friends and edge

142:07 of the empire was really fantastic.

142:09 I like it.

142:10 I like it a lot because of how the dice work, because unlike with D and D where you have

142:15 like your chance and your damage, um, in edge of the empire, you have, if I remember correctly,

142:22 it's it's like damage dice. And then, oh man, it's been a long time since I played. So I'm

142:29 going to say this wrong, but it's, it's like opportunity basically. And your dice have

142:33 to roll against each other. So you have, you have pluses and minuses for each type. So

142:37 if you, if you, uh, say you were, uh, this is edge of the empire.

142:41 So it's a lot of like scoundrels and whatnot. So say you had like you're a hand solo type

142:45 character, you've got a pistol, you're trying to shoot something that's down a hallway.

142:49 Um, and you're, you're not going to do any damage. Your damage dice come up with, uh,

142:56 zero or less than zero, but your, your advantage or disadvantage or whatever it was, it was

143:01 called, um, dice came up with a large advantage. So now you have to come up with something

143:07 that might be advantageous.

143:08 And you think about the star Wars universe and you're like, okay, well the shot missed,

143:11 it didn't hit the target that I wanted to hit, but let's have it hit the control panel.

143:15 That's next to the door. So now the door closes on the person that's trying to run away from

143:19 me and you can do cool, like thematic storytelling things through your dice rolls. And I really

143:26 thought that was very cool. That added an element that I always felt was missing from

143:29 D and D.

143:30 Um, and yeah, I used to, I used to nerd out about that, um, with Tyler and then he ended

143:34 up running a campaign and I, I believe they liked it. I think, uh, Alex Clark played in

143:39 that campaign.

143:40 I think. I don't know.

143:41 I don't fully remember.

143:42 Oh, I'm not sure.

143:43 Um, but yeah, it was a long time ago, but yeah. Yeah. I've always played those games

143:49 socially. I, I care a lot less for the game than I do for the people that I'm usually

143:53 playing it with.

143:56 And last one today's from Matthew. Hi Linus and Luke. It's Matt from the call challenge

144:01 video. What's the deal with the beef between you and D brand? Are you longtime friends

144:05 or is it just something fun you do now?

144:07 I hate those guys.

144:08 Does my bleep button work?

144:10 you D brand.

144:13 Seems to work.

144:15 Go yourself. D brand.

144:16 I think my favorite ad spot I've ever done was for D brand. Do you remember this? We

144:20 were at, I had no authorization to do this.

144:22 I don't watch ad spots for D brand because those guys.

144:25 Fair enough. Uh, we were at CES back in the day and it was like only sponsored by D brand

144:33 or something. So every video had a D brand sponsorship on it. And I was trying to make

144:36 each one of them different. And I just ran out of ideas and eventually just said D brand

144:41 like 30 times and gave no other information or context.

144:44 And they loved it. So I was like, sweet. Yeah. I think if that was a lot of other brands,

144:52 they probably wouldn't have been too impressed, but, uh, I had a, I had a hunch they'd roll

144:57 with it and they did, which was cool, but yeah, screw those guys.

145:03 Um, if D brand gets their way, I will be telling you guys about the car soon enough. Um, they,

145:11 they, uh,

145:14 oh,

145:16 why can't i resist their money yes this okay okay okay this is why i love those guys

145:28 oh my god oh my god they want me to put the most ass possible skin what is it can you say what it

145:40 is it's like just like your own face a bunch of times no no no it's an actual product that

145:46 is the kind of thing that might be fine in small doses but over an enormous enormous

145:57 vehicle might be a little much oh my goodness that actually might look super cool

146:05 but it might look super cool to see on a car one time and not look super cool

146:09 to be on your car permanently yeah so i'm uh

146:18 uh yes oh my goodness they're so annoying because they'll be like they'll be like hey

146:25 no it'd be funny you want to drink a bunch of energy drinks

146:29 hey want to do something totally stupid and i'm like no not really and they're like i'll pay more

146:41 oh so good so good so we'll see how it goes it makes in their defense it

146:47 makes it makes it makes it makes it makes it makes it makes it makes it makes it makes it makes it

146:47 makes stuff work because it's going to stand out it's going to be interesting it's going to be

146:50 punchy people are going to be interested in it but it's all stuff you're not going to want to do

146:55 uh so yeah you got to pay more but i mean yeah gets it done all right see you later guys

147:04 bye the show is brought to you by see sonic zoho one and vessi footwear

147:30 oh i never said see you again next week same bad time same bad channel i didn't say it

147:36 yeah