Ho, ho, ho! Merry Christmas! Guess what I got you?
Nothing.
The WEN Show!
Yay!
Welcome, everybody! We've got a lot of great stuff to talk about today.
John Carmack's decade in VR is over as he exits from Reality Labs, formerly Oculus.
This actually broke last week, right before the show, so we didn't really get a chance to talk about it,
but we're going to talk about it this week instead.
Oh, this is a big one. This is actually the title topic of the show today.
We got an update from Microsoft on our Windows Modern Standby video,
where we basically went,
you guys are ruining Windows laptops with this standby issue where the battery just drains for no reason.
What the heck is going on over there?
And we actually, apparently, raised some hell over at Microsoft,
and Alex from our team managed to get on the phone with the VP of Windows,
Windows Platform and Services, to go over some of our questions.
So we're going to be talking about that call, what is going on over there,
what it is that they're going to do about it.
Got a whole big update for you guys. What else we got?
I thought the LastPass breach was in the dock, but I can't find it.
But we're probably going to talk about that anyways, because it's interesting.
And also, we have three rapid-fire topics today.
One is, Eufy admits they lied.
One is, NVIDIA ends GameStream, recommends Steam Link.
And another one is,
facial recognition used to bar a lawyer from entering a venue.
And the reason why I'm listing all of these is because some amount of them are written by ChatGPT.
Wait, all the rapid-fires are written by ChatGPT?
Some amount.
And you are going to have to guess which ones are written by ChatGPT.
Oh, no.
And which ones are written by our team.
I will say they have been slightly massaged to fit the format of how
Okay.
we normally do, but there are lots of, like, whole sentences and stuff that are taken directly from ChatGPT.
Why?
Okay.
So you're going to have to figure out which ones or how many, whatever.
We'll figure it out when we get there, but yeah.
Okay.
It's unlisted.
It's not on YouTube.
Who changed it to unlisted?
Hold on.
No, no, it's fine.
I'll just set it to public and then they will see the rest of it later.
Let's see.
The show was brought to you by Vessi Footwear and two other things that were there before.
See Sonic and Zoho One.
Yes.
Hold on a second.
This should go.
Ah, yes.
There we go.
Properly unlisted it.
Great.
Let's jump right into our headline topic for the day, which is, of course, that Alex managed
to get the VP of Windows Platform and Services on the phone to go over some of our concerns
about Windows Modern Standby.
First of all, I want to give Microsoft credit because on the one hand, yeah, they've clearly
sat on ass on this issue for, well, years at this point, but on the other hand, now
that we have raised it as a problem, now that the community has spoken and made their voices
heard that this is a problem that affects them day to day, they appear to be taking
it really seriously.
So let's start with kind of Alex's interview and go from there.
First, Alex asked, why is S3 sleep being removed from the system?
Oh, no, we should give the people a bit of a catch you up if you didn't catch the original
video.
Did you watch the video?
No.
Okay.
So Windows Modern Standby or S0 sleep is a connected type of sleep that is meant to replace
the traditional S3 sleep.
It's supposed to be connected, more power efficient, and generally a boon.
It's been brought about in no small part by Intel's push for a more smartphone-like
experience on Windows laptops.
The problem is that a lot of the time when the machine is sleeping, I mean, I'm sure
you've encountered this.
Have you ever come to your laptop, found it to be piping hot with a dead battery after
you folded it and put it in your bag?
Yes.
I also have like, I'll try to put my desktop to sleep.
Okay, separate issue.
Okay.
I don't want to talk about that for now.
Oh, I left it in the camera den.
So, we basically came out and said, we think we figured this out.
We think it's to do with some kind of, it seems like high performance machines are
disproportionately affected.
So, it's something that the machine can be churning away on while it's supposed to be
sleeping.
We figured out that by disabling the network connected aspect of this type of sleep on
a Mac, we were able to get rid of that behavior, which we have also seen on a Mac.
Okay.
So, we're going to talk about that.
Not a Mac, not even an Intel Mac, right?
Interesting.
So, it's just a weird quirk of this type of sleep state.
And we basically made a video calling out Microsoft saying, hey, this has been a problem
for literally years.
This cannot be because you already suffer from worse battery life compared to your main
competitor, Apple, who is gaining market share in the mobile computer space.
You've got to deal with this because it is killing.
the experience of using a Windows laptop yeah like i talked to someone like Jake and i'm sitting
hearing i'm sorry you charge your laptop like once a week that's impossible for me because half the
time i go to grab my laptop it feels it's probably not half but it it feels like every time i go to
grab my bloody laptop i might as well flip a coin for whether i'm going to have any battery left
if you go somewhere without a cable you might as well not even brought the laptop exactly yeah
exactly so we were trying to light a fire at microsoft and it seems like it worked so the
first thing alex asked was why is s3 sleep being removed from the BIOS of laptops because that's
the problem is you couldn't even just say look i don't want s0 i want s3 when there's this industry
move towards eliminating s3 so here's the answer microsoft is moving away from s3 sleep because
how each device goes to be because how each device goes to sleep is controlled by that device's
firmware that means for a device to sleep properly the firmware needs to be updated and
maintained
by the company that made said device and as you can probably guess that doesn't happen all the
time big problem with Windows being put on so many different things by using s0 sleep instead
microsoft has more control over sleep and has a much higher success rate of everything going to
sleep properly and waking up properly compared to s3 sleep and i have to admit i was wondering too
well what was the problem with s3 sleep but then again i also know
back to your desktop comment that there are plenty of problems with s3 sleep yeah like
say for example disabling wake on mouse or wake on keyboard in the BIOS and yet having it magically
wake up if you so much as bump your mouse anyway or just wake up randomly yeah right i had this
thing for a while where i had to put it to sleep three times every time it would just wake
back up again like five minutes later and i could finally get it to go down and i had
why don't you just shut down your computer why don't you just shut down your computer
if it's an advertised feature of the product no you don't get to complain about me complaining
about it that is a problem that is objectively a problem and i don't want to hear it
so so what you turn off your computer i don't give a but if the computer is supposed
to go to sleep i am well within my right to expect that it will go to sleep okay it's like a child
right the child is supposed to go to sleep so if it doesn't go to sleep
well you're well within your right to yell at it and shake it
obviously kidding obviously kidding i'm trying legal advice i'm trying to make it so people
don't take me too seriously when i'm going because some people can't tell the difference okay
all right anyway i also think sometimes it's like the backing into parking spaces thing like you
might have a lot of time when you are done using said device but you might know that the next time
that you have to start using it you're going to need to use it quickly but you don't want to just
let it sit there running the whole time and i guess i get that your needs might not be the
same as mine but that doesn't make them the only valid needs that too and i'm not saying that your
way shouldn't be supported
it's not supported that's the thing i'm not saying well everyone should shut down yeah you
shouldn't shut down i'm saying you should be able to do both we should have choice like say for
example there's a lot of really great feedback recently about the micron um facilities tour
okay okay did you watch it by any chance no but it's it's in my watch later yeah it's really good
yeah tons of comments basically this is the best video you guys have ever done
this is far and away the best factory tour i've ever seen it's a really good video micron
was amazing they really opened up allowed us to see not just see but use the facilities i made
RAM i said that i saw that thumbnail and immediately added it to my watch later i made
RAM it was so cool well here's the thing i can't did we just lose power how much ups do we have
over here uh we need to we need to get power from the main server room ups let's freaking go
uh we have three minutes okay how much uh okay uh luke entertain the
people okay uh i don't think we're live though we're live we are live uh okay uh wait no yeah
we're back hello hi uh it is night time on the land show now with luke how's it going Dan uh who
usually sits back there behind the tv which i guess you guys don't see but it's also behind
the camera uh pretty much said three minutes got up and ran uh and Linus also got up and ran we have
lost power uh both of them are off trying to solve the problem i'm still not 100 certain if
it's live people are saying f i think we're still sending some data i'm not 100 sure what's going on
but assuming that this is going to someone right now i'm just gonna i'm just gonna keep going uh
there's ups is beeping all around the building i'm not 100 certain what you guys can hear
but we have one very large ups in the server room
that i think they are going to try to work on i suspect if i had to make some assumptions
that they are going to be shutting down certain things that are running off of that ups system
to try to keep networking and whatnot going as long as possible so that we can keep the stream
going i do believe that is the plan although i can hear them talking right now so theoretically
that will be coming back soon um i don't know should i give you guys spoilers no i can't because
then you guys will post them in chat and Linus will know which ones are
which ones are real and which ones are fake so i won't i won't go through that
um i don't think i can really complete this um sleep topic so i might jump into another one
i think the one that i'm going to do is the last pass topic uh because if this
stream is going out to no one uh that is probably the most okay one to do because
there are no notes for it in the doc oh hello uh just all the lights coming on what's a good time oh
this isn't ups running this we just got power back no this is this is ups this is ups okay
yeah should we turn this off yeah just go for it you're fine there's extreme circumstances yeah we
can just have a night when show it's fine directly through the notes legendary programmer john carmack
known for programming the original doom uh and his love for vr has stepped down as consulting cto
for reality Labs formerly oculus i actually didn't know they were called reality Labs i don't know why
you would even know already if i didn't know that yeah i think that was a while back yeah i probably
just didn't care because it's a weird name change that doesn't matter uh meta is famous for making
and directing and directly breaking promises not to f it up uh in quotes
you will not need a facebook account to use or develop for the rift that's definitely not a thing
anymore quotes we are not going to track you flash ads at you or do anything invasive uh that's not
a thing anymore in quotes we are going to we are not going to lock people out because they'regonica
compete I actually didn't know that was broken but apparently that was broken in
2016 yeah and then another one in quotes Facebook is going to give us access to
massive resources but let us operate independently the first part they did if
anything I think the entire world quadrupled hex two pulled down yeah the
first yeah the first half of that is extremely correct and then in quotes
none of our gaming resources will be diverted oh yeah that one uh not so much
uh Carmack says that he has mixed feelings about leaving stating that the quest two in particular
was almost exactly what he wanted to see despite complaints about the software yeah the proverbial
straw that broke the camel's back is apparently the the gaming resources being diverted one for
him I mean we know yeah John Carmack you know he's a gamer he's not a he's not a gamer he's
not a game he's not into gaming right right John Carmack not not that into gaming just
a
Doom yeah it's not a game yeah yeah it's a wall it's real it's a wall painting it's how we protect
the world from demons it's training you know the storyline behind Doom is like surprisingly in
depth yeah it's like there's a ton of lore yeah I had no idea yeah I mean either anyway uh Carmack
has previously been critical of meta's direction saying that they should focus on products to tap
into the metaverse before building out initiatives uh he worried that thousands of people's efforts
spanning years would be spent
on things that didn't contribute to the way people use devices today seems to be a little
bit true his biggest problem however is the efficiency and speed of development he says
that as someone who works hard at optimization seeing gross inefficiency hurts your soul likening
to seeing five percent GPU utilization that is not surprising from him he has always been hyper into
that uh this is one of the reasons why people still run some of his old games on like as many devices
as you can imagine because they're really really well built for for optimization for regard like
basically regardless of what platform you're on reality Labs he says operates at half the
effectiveness that he'd like yikes that's a big I mean his standards are pretty high yes but there's
probably still room for improvement also yes um his voice at the top of the company to his dismay
has not been able to persuade the organization to improve he says uh that he has never been able to
stop
stupid things because they cause damage or set a direction and have the team stick to it he blames
himself for this as instead of taking a leadership role and locking horns with Facebook on day one he
focused on what he's best at programming that's also not surprising he assumed he would hate it
be bad at it and probably lose anyways so that's why he stuck to programming he still deeply
believes in VR and that meta is best able to show its value his parting advice in quotes
is make better decisions and fill your products with give a damn now me too actually Carmex Focus
will be on his artificial intelligence startup Keen Technologies which has received significant
investment money in recent months artificial intelligence or AGI has the goal of making an
artificial intelligence system that can theoretically do any task a human can a truer definition of AI
far more limited in scope and off and is often just a matter of observe and fail at one thing
until it gets better some like meta chief scientist yan lee hopefully i said that right i
don't know sorry if i did say that wrong uh doubt that agi can or will ever become a reality others
fear what agi could represent if created irresponsibly the ai overloads overlords
joke hits a little differently for agi now what i kind of want to raise here uh is i think ai or agi
or whatever is what a lot of people definitely including myself thought vr was going to be at
this point in time yeah i think it's a huge disruptor i think it's going to change a ton
of things i think it already has and the real usable levels of it have barely even existed yet
when gpt4 comes out if places like google who have large language models similar to gp3 gpt4
whatever if they start using those more publicly if other companies that have similar systems start
using those more publicly i think the impact of these things are going to be on the scale
that when oculus was first founded people thought the impact of vr was going to be at
so i think it is a much more significantly interesting thing to work on right now
and i think
carmack is is quite interested in leading his own things considering that the vast amount of his
frustrations very clearly when leaving meta um was leadership decisions sure and and
efficiencies and goals and all that type of stuff so if he can steer the ship more directly
and he can do it on something that might be more punchy and more fun right now this is one of those
things where i've i think i've talked to you about this like not on the show just talking um i don't
know how i would handle working for someone else yeah as long as they made decisions that i agreed
were really great it'd be fine but the second but they probably won't yeah and it's not going to be
fine i i i think it's really hard to and the thing is that i like to think that i try pretty
hard to reach consensus when we make a decision as a company um i have never experienced that anywhere else and i suspect that let me add to that midterm studies and career research stuff of people that have tried to trust their perspective as a company
that have tried to trust their expertise as a company i
recently wrote i think one thing is işi did a really good job when i did my paper for
i did funny supporters so years this was really hard to for careers i wrote these standards general
i suspect that is not very common and i suspect that even as i'm talking about this and you're
sitting there nodding i'm not always perfect at it um but no but there's a reason i'm still here too
i don't know i just i don't think i would i don't think i would find i wouldn't need to agree with
everything but i don't think i would find a place where i would agree with enough and i think that's
basically what he's run into here i've said this literally on the WAN Show before like i don't
necessarily agree with everything we've ever done but i think that would be basically impossible
um and it's fine and i think i i do agree with the vast majority of things that we've done
um wow i want to give her a little more juice way less than i thought
all right good enough nice i do agree with the vast majority of things that we've done
and even when i don't agree with what we've done i can usually at least see the logic behind it
i have worked places before where tons of things happen where
i
no matter how hard i try i can't find the logic behind it uh the logic behind why the show is
dark today by the way if you guys are joining us a little bit late here we're going to try to splice
together the the segments of the show uh but we were interrupted by a power outage we are going
to run on battery for as long as we can here guys but the show might be a little bit on the shorter
side which means i want to jump through our sponsor spots right away to make sure that hey
at least they're getting their money's worth here and they don't ask for a refund uh the show is
brought to you by the show's sponsor sponsor sponsor sponsor sponsor sponsor sponsor sponsor
sponsor sponsor sponsor sponsor sponsor sponsor sponsor sponsor sponsor sponsor
csonic jim's prime tx 1600 watt power supply is a great choice for high performance system look
i'm not going to not get through the sponsor spots okay we i i was brought in on my friday
i'm supposed to be on vacation this week darn it we are doing the lawn show it features an 80 plus
titanium rating which means that less power gets wasted during power conversion uh Dan do you have
the sponsor lower thirds oh they're on the server aren't they okay we're living without them today
As I say, Seasonic's experience in designing hardware shows in their hybrid mode, a fan
control option that enables users to keep their power supply silent, and they back their
PSUs up with up to a 12-year warranty.
So if you're building a new system and looking for a power supply, check out what Seasonic
has to offer at Seasonic.com or at the link down below.
The show is also brought to you by Zoho One.
If you run a business, you know how hard it is to keep everything organized, but Zoho
One is designed to help you run your entire business through a single, unified platform.
Replace your patchwork of cloud applications, legacy tools, and paper-based processes with
one operating system with Zoho One, and they'll help you build your company's presence across
marketing channels, send prospects the right messages, and measure ROI with out-of-the-box
insights.
They have a comprehensive set of account tools to organize your business finances, track
payables, manage bills and expense, and even monitor your business's financial health,
so whether it's sales, marketing, finance, or analytics.
Support Zoho One has got you covered.
Sign up today using the link below and get a free 30-day trial with no credit card required.
Finally, the show is brought to you by Vessi Footwear.
Vessi Footwear claims their shoes are 100% waterproof, and I've yet to get any snow through
the ones that I was wearing today in the snow.
Their dual-climate knit material keeps your feet warm during winter and cool during the
summer.
They're super easy to slip on and off, comfortable for traveling, fit almost any occasion.
Oh, look.
There's a point in time.
There's a point in here that says, some of us are wearing them now.
Haha, like me.
Also, they're 100% vegan, so get $25 off each pair with offer code WANSHOW.
You can check them out at Vessi.com slash WANSHOW.
I've actually been wearing them quite a bit lately.
I forgot to buy new sandals, or rather, I was too lazy to buy new sandals for kind of
an extended period, and so I started wearing the Vessis, and it's a hard habit to break.
They're like, they're all right.
You know, my girlfriend bought Vessis without realizing that they were a sponsor of us.
Yeah.
Did she even get the discount?
No, I don't think so.
And she, I didn't know that she even had them, and she was talking about how much she liked
her shoes because no water got through them, and I was like, oh, we have a sponsor that
makes like highly water resistant shoes.
They're called Vessi.
She's like, oh, I have Vessis.
I was like, what?
Small world.
How did this happen?
But yeah, it's actually, that's actually a true story.
What do you want to talk about?
I want to get through these rapid fire topics because I want to see if you can sniff out.
Sure.
Which one of them was written by ChatGPT.
So first, do you want me to read them and you can read through the notes and think about
it?
Or how do you want to do this?
Let's just do it like we normally would.
You know, I'll do one, you do one.
Let's get through all three of them.
Sure.
And then I'll do my best.
Okay.
First up, we've got Eufy admits they lied.
This has been a developing story over, man, like a month now, hasn't it?
In a blog post addressed to Eufy security customers and partners.
Anchor.
The parent company of Eufy admitted to using the cloud to send mobile push notifications
with small preview images, which are protected by end-to-end encryption and deleted shortly
after being sent.
The company also admitted to a security flaw in the live view feature on its web portal,
but denied that any user data had been exposed or that facial recognition data was sent to
the cloud.
Eufy has made changes to the feature to require users to log into the web portal in order
to view live streams.
The company also said that it is committed to reducing the use of the cloud in its security
processes wherever possible, and that it complies with all industry standards.
Discussion question here is how much does an incident like this really tarnish a brand
or its bottom line?
I don't know.
It depends how mainstream it is.
I think it varies a lot.
Yeah.
I think it depends how mainstream the reporting on the negativity surrounding it is.
How much competition there is in the space.
That too.
You can talk day in and day out about what a toxic company NVIDIA might be, or Apple
might be, and it's not going to stop people from buying their products.
Absolutely.
Yeah.
Whereas Eufy, I feel like what did not have as strong of a brand to begin with, and so
much of the strength of their brand, at least based on the messages I'm seeing about it,
was around that promise that they didn't upload anything to the cloud.
So yeah, I could see it being extremely damaging.
And there's quite a few competitors.
Yeah.
There's quite a few competitors, and there's competitors that are bigger names.
So this could be a hugely negative impact.
Kind of an underdog.
Yeah.
Our second discussion question is, if you became CEO of this company one week before
the revelations, I hope the AI wrote this discussion question because this is a great
discussion question.
I suspect it was James who wrote this discussion question, though.
I think, but I don't remember.
I think all the discussion questions might be people.
I had a meeting with Riley and James this week about sort of...
Because we added, Luke and I added a bunch of topics to the doc right before the show
went live last week.
And Riley sent me the world's saddest email.
It was pretty sad.
Being like, you know...
We work really hard.
On these topics.
It would be really nice to know if you're just like, would prefer other topics.
And I'm like, oh, Riley, I'm sorry.
It's not you.
It's me.
Let's have a meeting next week and kind of talk about why we changed them.
And one of the things that wasn't just like me.
Yeah.
I know.
Laying down an edict or whatever.
But one of the things that came out of our discussion, you're a genius, Jake.
He's got a...
Jackery.
A Jackery.
Yeah.
Speaking of...
There's five?
We're streaming WAN Show.
Let's go.
Heck yeah, Jake.
All right.
Do it.
Wait.
What were we talking about?
Now, right.
Yeah.
So one of the things we came to together was that part of choosing a good show, you know,
is...
Choosing a good topic is looking at what the discussion topics will be.
Because if the discussion topic is, is this bad?
Yeah.
Yes.
Then there's nothing to really talk about.
Yeah.
It's bad.
We need some back and forth.
Okay.
Well, but why is it bad?
How is it bad?
Who was bad?
Where was it bad?
We've got to be able to...
There's got to be some meat on the boat.
There's got to be a discussion in the discussion question.
Yeah.
And so what I'm noticing is our discussion topics.
Yeah.
Our discussion questions are so much better because I think we're choosing topics based
on how rich the discussion can be.
Yeah.
If you wanted to truly make things right, if you were the CEO of this company one week
before this happened, so you can't alter course, all you can do is react to it, what would
you have done differently?
So I actually vaguely referenced this on the last show that we talked about, Yuffie, which
I don't think was our last show.
I think it was two shows ago or something.
And this might tank the company.
But what I said was they effectively had to recall devices.
And I still kind of defend that.
And yeah, it might tank the company.
I don't know.
But they advertised on local only.
It is not local only.
They're not going to be able to change the...
Maybe you can.
I doubt it.
I don't think they're going to be able to change that.
Certainly not immediately.
So they need to...
So maybe another option is offer full refunds.
Yes.
They're explaining everything that's going on.
Be very transparent.
Admit the things you got to admit.
Offer a full refund.
Yeah.
And if the user doesn't take it, they don't take it.
But like...
So the CEO in me would be trying to avoid a full, we refund everything.
Yeah.
So I think you have to do the offer.
That's kind of the end.
Yeah.
You just tank the whole company.
Yeah.
You might as well just say, see you later.
Yeah.
At that point.
And I don't mean like as an FU to the customer.
That that would be the right thing to do.
I mean, you just might not survive it.
You just spent so much money on R&D, you spent so much money on tooling, you spent so much
money on manufacturing, you spent so much money on shipping, now you have to pay for
more shipping.
Yeah.
To take it all back.
And you didn't gain anything.
Yeah.
So what I would be trying to do is offer that option because you kind of have to, but I
would be trying to come up with a more compelling option that doesn't hurt me quite so much.
Yeah.
Right?
So I might be looking at, okay, if I can convince you to keep this in its current state and
I can send you the new working one when we get there, can we do that?
Or I would be looking for-
I don't know if there's a subscription, but maybe you give them six months for free or
something.
Yeah.
If I could keep this in its state for now, but I could get you to what we promised in
six months, can you accept that?
I'd be trying to look for...
Ultimately, right, what the customer wanted was that product.
Yeah.
So what I would be trying to figure out is, is there any way without taking back everything
to get you what you paid for?
Well, there is some problems with that due to-
I know.
But-
You already broke the trust.
Yeah.
So you have to throw in a bonus because you have to do more than just get them what they
paid for.
Well, there's some technical problems with that too.
For sure.
Getting notifications to local phones or remote phones, all this type of stuff.
For sure.
I understand the core idea of what you're saying.
But I'd be trying to look for a way to kind of go, okay, it's going to take us some time.
We're going to have to do this to make it up to you, some kind of partial refund or
some kind...
Which is often not actually possible.
You ran into this a little while ago where you were not able to issue someone a partial
refund through PayPal because it had been 180 days.
They requested far past a reasonable date.
Yeah.
And PayPal literally wouldn't allow Luke to do it because I guess the assumption from their point of view...
Yeah.
...is that it must be under duress.
I don't know.
Yeah.
Right?
Yeah.
I think their thing is they don't want to deal with...
Because I think if you...
If I remember correctly, if you do a refund within the terms, the fees and whatnot get
refunded as well.
Right.
And there can be accounting challenges for everyone up and down the chain, right?
Yes.
Yeah.
Because if you have already remitted the taxes you collected, let me tell you something.
The state of California ain't going to be given a refund.
Ain't going to be giving you back those taxes you remitted.
Yeah.
No chance.
No matter who you refunded, whatever you refunded to.
Yeah.
So there's challenges.
So you're just eating it.
Yeah.
Well, I mean, even if you just eat it, the reporting for that would be a nightmare.
I don't even know how you would account for it.
Right?
Yeah.
So it's a nightmare.
So, yeah, I'd be trying to look for a compromise, but I agree with you.
You don't have a choice.
You have to offer the option.
You have to do something.
Yeah.
You have to offer the option.
And a bunch of people are going to take it.
Yeah.
If you are sincere and you are open, and this time you're honest, you might have a solid
amount of people that don't run.
But they didn't do that.
They did not.
They've taken too long.
And honestly, this response seems kind of half-baked as far as I'm concerned.
Someone just needs to sue the trash out of them.
They're not going to be successful.
It's a Chinese company.
Oh, right.
What are they going to do?
Yeah.
Fair enough.
Nothing.
Like China's going to protect their own.
Get them banned from selling.
Yeah.
So what?
The States or something.
Yeah.
And so I just, from my point of view, Anchor's on our list at this point, which is unfortunate.
We really enjoyed working with them actually.
I really liked Anchor.
I genuinely liked the products.
Yeah.
Me too.
So like, it sucks because finding good long-term sponsor partners is not something
that's easy.
And I feel for the poor sales team here, right?
Because when I just rug pull them and I go, hey, yeah, that account that you've been handling,
that's doing.
It's over many thousands of dollars a year.
Guess what?
You're not working with them anymore by edict of the king.
Like that sucks.
Right?
Oh, it does.
Yeah.
Absolutely.
Like imagine you worked in sales somewhere, right?
Your boss comes into the room and says, yeah, certain quotas and all this type of stuff.
Yeah.
That car that's on the lot, you can't sell that car anymore.
Or like you can't work with, you know, I don't know, families.
Anytime a family walks on the lot, you can't sell them anymore or whatever it is.
Right.
Kind of frustrating.
Like that sucks.
What?
I just let them walk by.
Frustrating the whole way down the chain.
I just let them walk by.
I got quotas to hit.
Right?
That sucks.
So.
Let me do my job.
That's just the way it's going to have to be, though.
I think I just don't see a way out for us.
We can't in good conscience continue to work with them.
We have to have standards.
The way out of this topic, though, is transitioning into NVIDIA ending game stream and recommending
Steam Link, which was really weird and surprising to me.
Yeah.
NVIDIA has announced that it will be ending its Shield TV game stream feature in four days.
Yeah.
It's going to be in February 2023.
In response, users have expressed frustration and disappointment, with some arguing that
the Steam Link app recommended by NVIDIA as an alternative is just not as good.
For example, some users have reported that Steam Link has lower quality video, less responsive
controls or slower speeds compared to game stream.
Others have complained that the apps interface or the need to purchase a separate device
to use it.
Now, separate device.
I mean, you already needed an NVIDIA Android device to use game stream.
I don't know if I really buy that one, because you can install Steam Link on a shield.
To be fair, I think it's a separate device compared to what.
Oh, I see.
Yeah.
So I don't agree with that.
However, I do think that NVIDIA's investment into game stream was a real one and a good
one.
It was a good product.
It was one that I personally was very enthusiastic about.
And I've used Steam Link and they're right.
It's not as good.
It just.
I don't know.
I want Steam Link to be great.
Yeah.
But it's just not there.
There are alternative options like Moonlight.
That's dependent on game stream.
Oh, is it really?
I thought it just used the encoder.
I didn't think it actually piggybacked on game stream.
I'm not 100% certain in my completely independent of writing this article research.
I heard that it's dependent on game stream.
Oh, that sucks right now due to the power issues we're having.
We don't actually have chat.
These local laptops do not have Internet at all.
Yeah.
So we're we're working on that.
But for now, we got nothing.
So I can't I can't look into any of this and I can't see what you guys are saying.
But some have suggested using Sunshine, which is a game stream host for Moonlight as an
alternative.
Do you have a SIM tool?
Do I have a SIM tool?
I do.
I know.
We should have at least three hours.
Three hours.
We got Jackery.
Let's go.
There's a Jackery plugged into the UPS.
Jackery has a plug.
Because it has a 20 amp plug.
Of course it does.
Yeah.
Shout out.
Shout.
They didn't sponsor the WAN Show today, but they might as well have.
Shout out Jackery for like sending us a new Jackery every time we do any kind of work
with them.
So we just have this pile of Jackery's that we keep charged in the event of an emergency.
With good reason.
And are now using, which is amazing.
Oh, you can use your phone.
Yeah.
My phone has Internet.
So perfect.
I'm keeping it away from the cables because there's crazy feedback that comes through.
But whatever.
Cool.
Because Moonlight uses NVIDIA Game Streams.
NVIDIA's Game Stream protocol.
It is unclear if it will still work after the mid-February update.
So it might work.
Might.
But maybe not forever.
Or it might just not.
Got it.
We have no idea.
A petition.
This isn't going to work.
A petition on Change.org has been created to try to reverse the decision to shut down
Game Stream.
The petition itself isn't going to work at all.
Maybe pressure in general towards NVIDIA will do something, but no one has cared about petitions
since like.
The internet started.
Yeah.
So it's just a thing.
Yeah.
Which is unfortunate to be clear.
We're not saying it should be that way.
No.
It just hasn't seemed to have any kind of effect.
If you really want to get a company's attention, I would say that a hundred tweets to their
corporate handle is going to be a hundred times more effective than 10,000 signatures
on a Change.org petition.
Especially if you get a bunch of people to do it at a very similar time.
Yeah.
So you can get it to translate.
Yeah.
The person at that level is just going to go, look, it's already over.
Yes.
It's fine.
This is clearly resolved.
Yeah.
So if you are upset, you have to make noise.
You have to continue to make noise.
And then you have to not stop making noise.
And you have to hope a lot of other people are doing the same thing.
Yeah.
If you're by yourself, it's not going to accomplish much.
I mean, man, I see this in a number of different ways.
I haven't touched GameStream in a long time.
I was just going to say.
I have three shields in my house and I haven't touched it.
As much as this sucks, it might ultimately be what NVIDIA needs to do.
As much as we just told everyone how to complain about this properly.
If not enough people are using it, and if it's not really a driver for people to purchase
their products, et cetera, and it's this huge cost sink, like companies are companies.
Yeah.
And NVIDIA is definitely a company.
Oh, heck yeah.
So like if it's, there are some cost sinks that companies will keep around.
Cough, cough, the forum.
Yeah, it doesn't cost that much.
Not really.
It's not a huge cost sink, but it definitely loses money.
Yeah.
Not a ton, but it's negative.
But like you can't do that with everything.
GameStream is probably a relatively complicated thing to keep updated and working with everything
all the time and performant and whatnot.
So like, I'm not happy this is going away.
And I'm sure that the people who like started the change.org petition and the people that are,
are really angry about this are people who have heavily integrated this into their setups.
And that sucks.
Yep.
That's the thing.
That's what Apple is so good at.
They don't always have the best product, but dammit, that sucky product in their walled garden with
their stupid limitations is going to still exist in five years.
Yep.
Not always.
I mean, their, uh, their servers went away.
Uh, what else could I point at as I've been there?
Their professional desktops effectively went away, then came back for one generation and seem to have gone away again.
They're not perfect, but if you buy an iPhone, you can expect continuity.
You can expect that software for iPhone will still be an option on newer hardware.
That I mean, 3d touch, uh, you know, by and large works the same way that the old one did, but more better.
Like that's some, that is something that just plain.
Sucks on the, the, the, the, the PC Android, more wild west open side of things like I, okay.
We did a video right before the WAN Show on this wireless GPU.
Okay.
There was a, a four 60 that had five antennas hanging off of it.
GTX four 60.
I'll got all these antennas hanging off of it has this receiver dongle that comes with it.
That has an HDMI out that goes into any HD display.
And it was meant to be an all in one solution.
For wireless display.
Okay.
Super cool product.
But if you buy into that, literally design your home theater set up around it thinking I'm definitely going to have an upgrade path for this over the next few years, I'm going to integrate this into my life.
You're an idiot.
Cause it's not going to happen to be fair.
It's NVIDIA.
I don't think in videos killed a lot of their projects.
I can't think of it.
Sorry.
Um, yeah, but the whole world.
Okay.
Thanks.
Physics was around for a long time.
Yeah.
And it's technically still around, but not in the form that was promised to us in the days and in the wake of the NVIDIA acquisition, NVIDIA abandoned wears things.
They do.
I guess, I guess my brain just keeps comparing it to Google and it's like, no, not really.
But yeah, those are, those are a few examples.
Yeah.
The shield portable.
Okay.
Handheld handheld gaming consoles.
What happened to those?
One and done boom.
See you later.
Now, I'm video kills stuff.
Let's not kid ourselves.
Fair enough, fair enough.
Um, and so, and so that really sucks.
And that's one of the reasons that smart home has smart home technology has been such a struggle, right?
Because there's no ecosystem that you can buy into and just hope for continuity.
Well, you can buy into it and hope, but you're, but it's not going to come true.
And so our discussion question here is to what extent does the removal of something like game stream represent a broken promise to customers of the NVIDIA?
We can use way back machine at this point to go look at the marketing of the shield.
Look at how prominently NVIDIA featured this particular, uh, capability of the product in their marketing and say, Hey, this is tantamount to outright false advertising at this point.
And this is something that is happening more and more like a perfect example is what Google's done with their home, with their hub products and their, their nest home product.
Yeah.
Where that lawsuit from Sonos affected their ability to set up the product to such an extent that it is extremely user unfriendly.
Now, I mean, you, you, I'm sorry, but there has to be legislation put in place that says if you advertise a fucking feature, you don't get to take it away with an update.
You can't update your product to make it worse.
My, my steam deck.
Doesn't work.
So I can't swear, but it's like, uh, it's the power zone is fine.
Uh, it's, it's, it's, it's like the games recently as well.
Right.
We talked about these games, especially VR games.
Uh, there was a few of them that didn't sell super well.
So they just completely offlined all their servers, but they're online only games and people bought them.
I don't even care if one person bought it.
Yeah.
You advertise this game.
You shouldn't be able to shut down the servers like one year later.
That's crazy.
Yeah.
That's ridiculous.
Or you should have to.
As we've said so many times, you should have to release the server side code.
Yeah.
At the very least.
And if nobody picks it up.
All right.
So be it.
Yeah.
So be it.
But if you advertise the feature, then I think there needs to be legislation in place.
Your button's not working.
I found out.
Um, that in good faith, you have to provide the community.
You have to give stewardship over to someone so that it can be maintained.
Yeah.
And I think when it comes to software, there's.
Uh, vibrant enough open source community that someone would take this and run with it.
I don't know if they're going to run with it as well as, uh, the, the SUPCOM guys, but yeah, there, there is still, uh, there are communities outside of the, uh, just honestly, fairly stunningly awesome Supreme commander community.
There are communities outside of that, that are running old games that have become, uh, open source or shareware in some way.
And it's, it's pretty cool.
Um, we have one more.
Whoa.
Is that intentional?
Oh, I think they're using Jackery's to restore it.
Wait, no, it is.
This is the power is the power on.
No emergency lights.
I think that, yeah, they're using Jackery's to, uh, to bring the lights back on.
Oh, it is back on.
The emergency lights are off, right?
That should.
Okay.
All right.
We've got this.
Can we turn this back on?
Yeah, it might be.
Uh, Hey.
All right.
Cool.
That right there.
Um, is someone from float.
Plane trying to figure out getting access to these files to kind of stitch everything on it.
Yeah.
AJ, you are an absolute French Canadian champion.
Um, I'm sorry.
I had to qualify.
I'm, I'm fair.
I'm fairly certain.
He's got the first one coming down already.
All right.
Um, I don't know.
I don't think he's even heard at this point that we need the second one.
If you're watching this, AJ, I'm sorry, but it's true.
All right.
We're going to do our third, maybe written by AI topic.
Facial recognition.
Was used to bar a lawyer pun intended from entering a venue.
And this maybe doesn't sound like that big of a deal, but it's a big deal.
A mother accompanying her daughter's girl scout troop to a Rockettes show at radio city music hall in Manhattan over the Thanksgiving weekend was denied entry after facial recognition software, allegedly identified her.
So this is before submitting any kind of identification or ticket or anything.
Kelly Conlin, imagine doing this to a lawyer on purpose, anyway, Kelly Conlin, the woman in question works as a lawyer for a firm that is involved in a personal injury claim against, um, MSG entertainment, the group that owns the venue.
She does not, however, practice in New York and is not involved in the particular case.
So Conlin claims she was approached by security and asked to produce identification.
After passing through the metal detectors into the main lobby, a sign in the lobby does state that facial recognition technology is in use for the safety of guests and employees.
Interesting.
MSG entertainment claims they have a policy that precludes attorneys pursuing active litigation against the company from attending events at our venues until that litigation has been resolved.
Brutal, absolutely.
Brutal.
The heck timeline are we on Luke?
Imagine going into, uh, I don't even know if these exist.
Imagine going into an anchor one random person.
Who's never even heard of this story that works at, uh, one of the companies here walking into an anchor store and being told to leave because they know that they're employed by the parent company of this company that has some kind of ongoing dispute.
Yeah.
Like this can, it doesn't even have to be a dispute, right?
This.
This can of worms is open wild.
Imagine any, uh, Sonos employee was to try to use a Google service if they bought a Google home and went to set it up and it used AI voice recognition to say, Hey, we couldn't help noticing that you're such and such from Google's hardware division.
Uh, why don't you go F yourself?
And, uh, yeah, that's pretty much it.
See you later.
Absolutely.
What?
Wild.
Yeah, that's crazy.
Absolutely crazy.
Discussion question.
What are your feelings about facial recognition being used to bar people from events based on, uh, scraped data sets like this?
Um, when is it appropriate?
When is it not?
Where's the line?
This is bad.
Uh, I don't know.
I'm, I'm hot spotted.
Uh, I, I can check though.
I'll check.
Jinx.
You owe me a ride home.
I, I, I mean, that was the plan.
Okay.
Um, I'm taking him for a ride in my new car.
Yeah.
I haven't really talked about it yet.
I think that's the first public announcement.
That's the first public acknowledgement.
I don't know about appropriate, but one thing I'm going to throw out there is I think this might become a big thing for political events.
Yeah.
Oh, wow.
Cause if you can keep protesters out by knowing what their affiliations are based on facial recognition, pairing that, pairing that with public recognition.
Where else they've been seen?
Pairing that with public recognition.
Public information, like Twitter accounts or whatever else, um, and figuring out if you want to let people in, uh, I, I think that's absolutely going to be a thing.
I'm not going to take a stance on how I feel about the appropriateness of that.
I just see that happening.
I see this, I see this coming down to like a Supreme court tier, like, like free, like first amendment kind of thing in the U S and then I suspect, uh, Canada is going to pull their usual.
That's the thing where we basically just.
Copy what the U S does.
Yeah, do whatever the U S does.
Yeah.
Uh, yeah.
We're a super cool independent country and we advance, uh, directly in step with the U S.
Sometimes we ignore what they do, which is good.
Um, other times we ignore what they do and it's not as good.
Yeah.
Anywho, the point is that this is, I think this is headed for the Supreme court.
Cause I think ultimately there there's going to be like, um, like a, like a personal rights argument from both sides on the one hand.
Discriminating against someone based on their profession or their place of work seems like pretty open shut.
But on the other hand, to tell a venue that they are, that they do not have the right to refuse service to an individual customer on their own bloody property is also seems pretty open and shut, right?
It's weird.
There's a strong argument, both ways, strong argument.
There's a lot of technological stuff coming out right now that.
The law is so far behind and it doesn't help that half of the legislators in the Western world are septuagenarians.
As far as I can tell, no idea what's going on, no idea what's going on.
And even the younger ones, quite frankly, could stand to be a little more tech savvy based on a lot of the C-SPAN that I've seen.
Yep.
Okay.
So at least one.
Jake has apparently joined the show.
Oh no, he's not sitting in the producer cam.
So we missed him.
Lean to the right Jake.
Apparently he's here in case the, uh, the power goes out again, things, things have gotten a little hairy this evening.
It's been a fun night.
Um, my roof caved in.
That's a fun thing.
Uh, minutes after leaving my, uh, my apartment to come to work, I got a call from my girlfriend saying that, uh, part of the ceiling had ripped through and it was raining in one of the bathrooms.
Um, we thought it was a.
Previous, uh, a leak that we had previously found.
The house that was caused by the AC.
It wasn't that it was the roof of the apartment building was leaking into the attic and then ripped through our ceiling.
So that was cool.
I haven't been to go.
I haven't been able to go help with that, but she's been doing a great job.
Luke had to co-host a video with me before the show today, uh, reacting to our worst videos and he should it.
Okay.
For real talking, talking from the heart here.
Okay.
I have to commend your professionalism.
Oh.
He showed up looking like an actual storm cloud, like jaw set, teeth clenched, pissed.
We turned on the camera and he's like, this video is terrible.
Classic Luke.
It helps that they were actually pretty terrible.
We've made some stickers over the years.
There's one, there's one that I had completely forgotten about.
Actually.
I have no memory of it at all.
Hosted by Luke hosted, like clearly it's, it's something that I did and it's, it's really bad.
I, wow.
Yeah.
There's also a couple in there that I expected to see the, uh, the Blackberry one.
I like I did the, the second I heard the premise of the video, I was like, Blackberry video, Blackberry video is going to be in there.
Um, it's awful.
Oh yeah.
It's terrible.
But yeah, that'll be a, that'll be a fun video.
I have done some stuff, you know?
I didn't feel like as a mid twenties.
Something that my sense of humor was probably going to change.
I felt like what I was doing and thought was funny.
Then I would probably still think is funny in 10 years.
It's not funny.
We'd laughed at it.
We did laugh, but we were laughing at me.
That WD video was so funny.
It was not funny.
It was cringe.
Yeah, I guess so.
It was cringe so hard that it goes all the way around back to funny.
There, there's a couple.
Comments about my birds.
The birds are fine.
Um, my, my girlfriend got the birds back into cages.
They're covered.
Everything's fine.
Um, we did not include the hide your porn one.
I don't even think that video was that bad.
I think that video did.
Okay.
It might be cringy.
Like the humor is probably terrible.
Oh, um, but I think that is anything we've ever done.
I think like performance wise, I think it did fine.
Um, I'll always remember the script review meeting for that because Luke wrote some cringy.
Like I.
It was his idea to have like, basically a lot of the shots be, you know, uh, suggestive.
Right.
And then I think that you thought, do you remember this?
Uh, I, I, not with full clarity.
I, yeah, I think that you thought I was going to come in and tone it down.
And then I amped it up to the point where even you were kind of like, Oh, this is pretty bad.
It honestly sounds about right.
Yeah.
Two, 2.2 million.
Yeah.
I'm going to come in and do like the review meeting.
Yeah.
I'm going to come in and do like the review meeting.
Yeah.
And then I'm going to be like, Oh, this is pretty good.
And then I'm going to go in and do like the review meeting.
And I'm going to be like, Oh, this is pretty good.
Yeah.
Um, it was pretty good from seven years ago.
There's some real tech tips in there.
I mean, I don't know how relevant most of them are now that incognito mode and like just everything being shockingly easily accessible as the thing.
Yeah.
I guess it would help it hide from you, like your parents to a certain degree, but incognito mode, isn't really enough.
I'm pretty sure TrueCrypt was in there, which isn't really a thing anymore.
So, like, it's definitely a little dated, but yeah.
Something like it, probably useful still.
Okay, back to it, though.
We just did three core topics.
Eufy, NVIDIA, facial recognition.
Some amount.
I haven't told them how many.
It could be all of them.
It could be one.
It could be two.
Some amount of them were written, massaged slightly so that it fits our format a little bit better.
But written with some minor edits by ChatGPT.
And now you need to try to identify which ones.
I also, because I think this is important and interesting, want to know why you think this for each one.
Man, the fact that...
The fact that it's this tough is very interesting.
Okay, but the fact that a human went through and massaged it...
That is true.
Makes it really tough.
I don't know how much of that...
I don't know how much of that was done because it wasn't me.
James prepared this.
I do know that he said, like, many of these are, like, full sentences.
Like, he mostly shaped it instead of changed it, if that makes sense.
That's my understanding.
It's been a bit...
A lot has happened since I talked to James.
I think the Eufy one was written by ChatGPT.
Okay.
That's the only one that I think for sure was written by ChatGPT.
So you get one point.
You get...
Okay, no.
You get two points.
Hold on, hold on, hold on.
Okay, he hasn't explained the points, so I think I can still clarify further.
Yeah.
I think that the NVIDIA one was written by a human.
Okay.
I am not sure about the facial recognition one.
I don't know how to give you points anymore.
You got one right.
Okay.
You got one wrong.
And you got one maybe, I guess.
The answer to the facial recognition one...
The facial recognition one was written by a human.
Both of them...
Both of the other two are ChatGPT.
Shoot.
Wow.
Yeah.
Wow.
Yeah.
Wow.
Pretty crazy, eh?
Yeah.
So we've talked about this privately, and I don't have this prepared.
But someone made...
I wish...
I wonder if I can bring it up.
Here.
I mean, just so that you guys can see what the notes look like for these, because that
might not be...
That might not be something that will translate perfectly for you, here's the Yuffie topic,
which the reason that I thought that it was ChatGPT was because it was far less editorialized
than some of our writers tend to...
There's also things like, in a blog post addressed to Yuffie security customers and partners,
bubble anchor, all of it's properly capitalized.
Yeah.
There's a few things that can make it stand out slightly.
This one, though?
The fact that it...
Yeah.
The fact that it really talked about what's going on around this.
So I will add some context.
It wasn't done...
And some people on the stream will know this, and I think you'll know this.
It wasn't done by just saying like, hey, summarize this link, because it can't...
No, you can't do that.
It can't crawl the web.
So information was given to it, talking points were given to it, and then it turned them
into whatever.
Still.
So we gave it notes.
Still.
Yeah.
And then James gave it, I think it was like five or six links.
It gave it the links and a five word blurb for each link.
That was the NVIDIA one, actually.
I wonder if I have a screenshot.
I don't know if I'd be able to find it.
It's in my team, so I wouldn't be able to show it very effectively on stream.
But just very little information.
But from information that is naturally in the URL of something that isn't obfuscated,
and the little tiny three to five word little snippet of each post.
Yeah.
So James wrote this NVIDIA article.
Wow.
Which is pretty good.
Wow.
It was 100% enough for us to go off of.
Super, super interesting.
I was talking to Linus the other day about, oh, this is not even the one that I found.
I Googled it and I found a different one.
So more than one person has done this, which is interesting.
Should I go to your laptop?
I guess.
I think this is what...
Yeah, you can go to it.
So this is, I don't know, every.tv.
Yeah.
I've never heard of this before.
I built an AI chatbot based on my favorite podcast.
This is a different person though than the one that I linked to you.
Yeah.
And it's not the exact same thing, but it's extremely close.
This one looks like a command line thing, whatever, I don't know.
So the one that I had found, it's an actual website that you can go to.
These are both based off of the Huberman Lab podcast.
But people have taken, I'm assuming, I have not read this article.
The other one, I know this is how this works, and I'm assuming this person did it in the
same way.
They use a different open AI product.
Yeah.
So they fed all of Dr. Huberman's podcasts through Whisper, which is another open AI
product, which transcribes audio to text.
And then they fed all of the text into GPT-3, and then they made it so that you can ask
the chatbot effectively questions about what Dr. Huberman says in his podcasts.
And it will go through all of the transcripts of all of these three hour long, super dense
podcasts.
And it will pull answers out for you.
The other one will also cite its references.
So it'll say like, I got this from this podcast at this minute, and you can click on it, it'll
bring up the podcast at that timestamp so you can listen to the original audio just
in case you don't trust the transcription.
This is super interesting for like a bunch of reasons.
This is terrifying for content creators.
Podcast industry.
Yeah.
Especially if you are a very information dense podcast.
Yeah.
Like the Huberman Lab podcast, because now people don't have to listen to your content
or consume it at all.
These random people on the internet just made a way completely detached from your content
that you have absolutely no way of being paid for.
Nope.
And they made a way for people to completely bypass all of your stuff.
It's super helpful for users that want to pull information out of it.
It's super not helpful for you being able to grow your, your, your, your channel or
your audience or continue to do your podcast, continue to do it at all, really.
So from a copyright standpoint though, man, see how do you control it?
I mean, it's just like the artist thing, right?
So there's nothing inherently wrong with AI generated or machine learning generated artwork.
Yeah.
The issue is how it was trained and proper compensation for the dataset that it was trained
on.
And Luke talked about this extensively enough in last week and the week before that I don't
think we need to tread over it again this week.
Yeah.
There's no problem with a bot that compiles answers to questions as long as it is properly
compensating whoever's original work was used to train it.
But as of this time, that's not being done and there is no framework whatsoever for that
to be done.
So for the same reason that artists are crying foul about their artwork being used to train
their machine replacement, uh, I could see a podcaster crying foul about their bot.
Yeah.
They're just trying to make use of their body of work, their body of copyrighted work being
used to create a tool that irrelevance their copyrighted work.
And I don't think you're gonna be able to make a very solid, fair use argument for something
like this because yes, for personal use, you could probably make the argument that there
is nothing wrong with watching all of the episodes.
Therefore having all of the words for yourself and making those where it's creating an index,
of those words and a way to recall various words in some way, right? But as soon as you make it
more broadly available, especially commercially available, that falls apart. To be fair,
all the ones that I've seen so far have not been commercially driven. One interesting one,
the first one that I found, and I don't know why I can't find it right now. I'm sure I could if I
use my Google Foo a little bit more effectively. But the first one that I found, the whole thing
is open source too. You put it all in GitHub. And the fact that multiple people have done this
already, proof that it's not really that hard. The person that I had looked into originally said
it took them less than a day. The process is all kind of already there. You're just sort of linking
things together, right? We've got a couple interesting viewer comments here. So Eric
RC on Floatplane says, Linus, I disagree. I don't believe most people listen to podcasts
just for answers. There's a definite entertainment value.
But this is just like what I was talking about earlier, where just because you don't need to
put your laptop to sleep doesn't mean that I don't. So yeah, this podcast, I don't think anyone
necessarily would. No one needs to search this for information. Or it's unlikely, but someone
could. Yeah, because we're going to be a secondary source a lot of the time, unless you're looking
for information about my life or Luke's life or whatever else the case may be. And if that's the
case, probably it would be...
It would be more interesting to hear it as told by us anyway. I think The WAN Show is a more
entertainment show anyhow. And I'm not saying that because there's some kind of like liability,
oh, advice on The WAN Show should be taken for entertainment purposes only. It's just,
I do think that that's the show that we try to run for you guys. But that doesn't mean that
every podcast is like that. Some of them are very Q&A driven, very information driven.
And Hubermans are extremely information driven. There are also lots...
And not that entertaining.
There are also lots of...
I don't know about that one. But...
Sure. But there is a lot. You're right, though. There is a lot of educational or
informational based podcasts. There's tons of science based podcasts. There's tons of
even like...
It's more about keeping up with the industry.
Yes.
And less about being entertained.
Yes.
Right?
Yeah.
And so...
Or like, imagine there's a self-help podcast.
Sure.
You might look for answers to somewhat common self-help questions by using this thing.
Whatever it is, there are lots of not just like storytelling entertainment style.
Yes.
Things.
And so that's a big challenge.
And an ethereal llama says, isn't this part of the territory when you post free content on the internet, though?
No.
The content isn't free.
We've talked about this before and some people are never going to understand it.
But that's really just not my problem at a certain point.
The content isn't free.
There is an implicit agreement that the content is going to be supported in some way.
Otherwise, it won't exist.
Otherwise, it would explicitly be said that it is free.
Linus Tech Tips is not free.
Linus Tech Tips is paid for by actual money, which we get from ads or from subscriptions.
And it is possible that something is free, but that also does not mean that its license allows you to do this with it.
Correct.
There is a ton of different levels of variation when it comes to licensing.
And you could absolutely release a podcast with a license where you allow people to do this.
Right.
Absolutely.
There's nothing stopping you from doing that.
You could say everything that I say into this podcast is free for everyone to use in any way.
And no, I did not just say that about WAN Show.
But you could say that, but I do not believe that has been said by these people.
But what I was going to say is a dangerous intrusive thought that comes up when I've already heard about this thing where they're taking podcasts and they're transcribing them and stuff.
And I'm not going to go into that.
I'm not going to go into that.
It's false.
I mean, they can't do this to them and stuff.
What stops people from setting up an RSS feed of trusted news sites?
Setting up a bot that is able to scrape the body of an article without grabbing all the ads and the other junk that's on the page, taking all of that, feeding it to chatGPT, getting chatGPT to rewrite it, and then getting another system that they make to automatically post these.
Actually,
is pretty good at it genuinely rewritten articles and then they put their own ads on and then they
just put their own monetizing someone else's work yep it's all automated yep like and so
you know what it's not going to completely destroy industries in a day no maybe not even in a year
give it 10 years i mean even three yeah it's it's gonna be going a very that is already an entire
news industry yeah but it's usually junk and if you're like paying attention pretty much at all
you can usually kind of tell no you can a lot of people can't fair enough which is why we're
but this this moves that bar up quite a bit yeah people have found a few different accounts because
you can kind of prod them in the right way that people have found a few different twitter accounts
that are using ai generated faces as their profile that look extremely convincing like you can't tell
especially at that size
at that resolution it you really can't tell yeah um and then they have fully chat gpt written tweets
and replies the whole account and the ones that i have kind of found with with advice from other
people and how to find them etc etc etc um all of the ones that i've found it looks like people are
just experimenting i don't think they're really using them to any goal yet yep but yeah it's gonna
happen yeah we're headed in an interesting direction
and
it's hard to find out uh laro does says what about content creators doing this themselves
to search their podcasts i mean yeah we could sure but what i can tell you is that right now
there is no like zero effective way to monetize something like this and pretty much any podcast
that you know and love if it has any kind of monetization on it now if you were to say to
the creator hey uh why don't you use this tool where people don't use it to monetize something
don't have to watch the podcast you monetize and they can just get all the information that they need
without watching it and you monetizing it why don't you do that they're gonna be like why some
some that like they really don't care about their podcasts as a career path or whatever and they
just want the information absolutely sure and again i did specify ones that are currently monetized
okay yeah there you go yeah yeah pretty much um and kai m says i mean ad block is a thing what's
your take on how this is different to that it's not what his take is on that is pretty documented
yes i think i think i've been pretty clear about it uh the part that people got confused about
is i never actually said never use an ad blocker what i said is own it yeah just own it yeah
understand put on your hat yeah wear your shirt yeah we've even sold a shirt yeah i like it just
own it it's a nice shirt that's all i said just just just deal with it and if you have like if
you feel all guilty about the word then maybe that's something then you should do some self
reflection yeah but yeah otherwise then just yeah just just own it yeah exactly um adfa kls djf
uh over on Floatplane says i bought two shirts yeah you didn't i don't think yeah we
very understandably i yeah i will
say but i don't think we have been doing uh merch message curation at all oh yeah we shoot
kate um where's Dan uh is Dan still here i don't know
i'm looking through them right now uh okay uh yeah well hey we've actually got an update on
LTT Store speaking of ways that we will still be able to survive because we are a mature well
diversified company i don't mean mature like we don't make fart
drugs jokes jokes um i mean mature like we have developed a lot of revenue streams to help us
whether uh you know whatever ai storms are headed this way LTT Store is a huge one uh i think i said
this before but 2022 is the year that LTT Store's revenue will be greater than our media production
revenue uh massive shout out to all of you guys for absolutely for making this possible massive
shout out to the team responsible for it uh nick kyle bridget sarah lloyd oh my goodness i'm gonna
give you a shout out to all the people it's gonna be really awful uh you know natalie uh adam nolan
uh there's some new people in customer care i don't know their name yet so i'm not gonna include them
but you know we got hannah matthew alama day uh the team there is conrad amazing thank you uh
massive massive shout out to the Floatplane team for making that whole thing happen like it's been
it's been a long time coming but it means that our future as an independent media company is basically
a solid foundation for us as a community we've been really proud of our support for you guys
as we've been really proud of our support for you guys i'd love to see you guys getting back on the
road and doing great stuff so keep that in mind as long as you guys continue to support us in that
way uh we've got a deal for you guys this week uh where is it oh wait this just says lttstore.com
deal of the week question mark i thought we did have something to talk about this week oh
we have something i didn't talk about last week if nothing else um yeah is that still running we
can find some hints in the uh in the reviews that that are up we ran this as a promo during the
black friday's uh period it's yeah that's not the pricing that we're going to be doing for it in the
long term it's going to be 50 bucks but we've got everything from small to triple xl and you guys
can check it out mystery hoodie sales are final we do not offer returns or exchanges but it is a
way to get yourself into an LTT hoodie for a pretty aggressive price uh we're also shipping
backpacks in real time now they're not backordered in any way uh what else is there that i could
really say about the store right now i mean yeah i guess that's i guess that's probably that's
probably enough um all right and uh picking something up on the store is the way to send
a message into the show they're called merch messages and they're better than super chats
better than twitch bits because all the money you spend will go into something that you actually get
to keep and use
and enjoy instead of lining the pockets of big tech that's our that's our sales pitch and uh
if youtube and twitch and facebook uh operated the same way as twitter i probably wouldn't be
allowed to say that but hey we never live streamed on twitter so yeah whatever deal with it oh we
figured out afterwards you can't periscope's dead right spaces is not the same thing so we couldn't
yeah yep uh
uh all right uh i guess we should do a couple have you i have curated some i'm working on going
through the incoming dance not here so i'm gonna go ahead and uh go through a couple of our curated
ones and we'll get back to some more topics here should i talk about the big thing that happened
this year like the really big one the one where we convened like uh a council of people to talk
about it it's it's past the nda date for it so i could talk about it like the first one the the
really big event that the really big maybe the really big event that we talked about and ultimately
decided not to to do no the second event then should we talk about the second big event i'll
let you think about it while i go through a couple of messages i don't think so i mean i think it
might be interesting for the people to have some idea it's also the kind of thing that if i worked
here i probably wouldn't want to hear about it on the WAN Show yeah but i mean are they used to it
at this point maybe i mean they are but that doesn't mean it's a good thing
um atomic age a silver on Floatplane says do it cowards i mean i would say the same thing
if i was in the audience um i do think you should probably discuss this with other internal people
before we do though james ryan says do you have a recommendation for messaging into the show for
people who might not want to have a physical object show up uh buy a gift card on LTT Store
and then just never spend it i guess or spend it eventually or gift
it it's a gift card yeah give it to someone else it's a gift card yeah at least that way you're not
throwing away any money yeah right yep don't throw away money because like what's the overhead on
like uh on a super chat like 30 40 something like that yeah why are you doing that yeah all right
uh anonymous says hey guys wanting to get into it soon and with the technical difficulties
experienced tonight i was wondering how help desk issues are solved at LMG is there an official
ticketing system or just grab the nearest
Linus uh there's no official ticketing system so you would first go to logistics uh with Dan being
your main point of contact for that sort of thing and then if he's not around i believe there's
someone else who is like can kind of be helpful and then it's going to fall to Jake we actually
have some documentation for catastrophic failures that luke and Jake have been working together on
so that you'll be you'll have some some docs that you can go to they're not really
intended for the average user they're intended for more like a me or an Anthony to look at or or
even people that work on it all the time it's it's mostly a like everything around you is on fire and
everyone's panicking let me go back to this thing so i don't actually have to think about it so i
can put my mental power elsewhere and just follow these steps and get everything back online as soon
as possible it also like organizes all the information that you need does stuff like that
it's a good idea to have disaster recovery procedures it's something that i think we could
do better but it's something that
also is working reasonably well for us um i think that because we are a company of relatively tech
savvy people we probably have a lot fewer i can't figure out how to open my email client
my computer won't turn on oh it's not plugged in yeah then many companies would so it hasn't
overloaded those guys yet but as we expand into more say for example like physical goods
manufacturing where we can't expect people to have a high level of technical proficiency like maybe
they're a wizard with a sewing machine
but you know a computer what's a compute right i i don't i don't know then we might have to deal
with more of that and it might be something that we'll have to address um kevin m can you test
whether lifting a laptop by its palm rest causes a mouse click to register i frequently carry around
my laptop while watching full screen videos and it's frustrating having them pause all the time
both my xps 15 and my lg gram do this so i curated this i thought it was actually kind
of an interesting question because i have experienced this before me too so like maybe
something interesting for the Labs to consider if they start getting into laptop testing it could
even be like a mostly pass fail like if by lifting it at any point in these sort of designated areas
it causes a mouse click to register um then fail kind of thing yeah yeah it's an interesting
interesting idea all right i'm going to submit that to gary
uh you might have to do the next one because i'm typing an email okay i'm actually going
to do one that isn't curated yet but i was just going to curate it uh so this is from colin r he
asks what what are your thoughts on the potential of ai generated video game assets do you think
that oh i found it again do you think that engines like unity or unreal engine will develop tools for
easy integration of ai generated assets in the workflow uh i think they are absolutely going to
be a thing i would highly suspect that both of those engines will eventually find some form of
integration uh including the potentiality of that integration just being a tool that is built into
i have already seen examples of people using chat gpt input prompts into something i don't remember
what it was it was some ai art program thingamajigger and it was making texture maps
for models that they made in 3d yeah um i saw that too like cad software so they were modeling
like buildings and or they were texturing like buildings and stuff some of them were
surprisingly good does it look perfect no no
But I've seen games that were worse.
I've seen finished games that were a lot worse.
Relatively modern ones too.
Like, yeah, it's 100% gonna be a thing for sure.
Stable diffusion, was that it?
Yeah, I think a bunch of people saw this.
It was relatively trendy, so yeah.
Absolutely wild.
All right, you guys have got some more time
to send in some merch messages.
The producer's back.
Sup, Dan?
Hello.
How are, how are the, yeah.
Look at him.
Yeah.
Dan, you've seen better days, my friend.
I live for this stuff, don't you worry.
Yeah, hell yeah.
Oh yeah.
Let's go.
This has been an absolute poo show today.
To be fair, this is good stuff.
Yeah, we appreciate you guys sticking with us
through the technical difficulties.
For once, it wasn't our fault at all.
And I think-
I think the response to it was pretty good.
We, you know what?
If it hadn't been-
Was it flawless?
If it hadn't been for a thing that I can't really disclose
that is special about the WAN Show setup,
I don't think our,
I don't think our stream would have even stopped.
Wouldn't even have coughed, no.
It was just that, that was the only problem.
And we will have that addressed for next time.
It was just one of those things we just didn't,
we didn't think about that the WAN Show
will need to continue through a power outage.
Like, we are set up so that, in the end,
we're gonna be able to do it.
In the event of a long-term power outage,
we can at least finish,
we can have one editor finish today's video.
That's kind of the, that's the bar, right?
And everyone else can shut down their work,
or shut down their computers and save their work safely.
But now that we know that we could do this,
I'm thinking daisy chain jacqueries.
I'm thinking backup batteries
on all the key pieces of infrastructure.
Let's go, power off WAN Show.
Yeah, we can do about three and a half hours.
Yeah.
Which is, I mean, a lot of WAN shows get pretty close
to that these days.
Yeah, but not longer.
But they don't go past that, yeah.
Yeah, oh, I'm excited.
I'm excited, this is great.
All right, what else do we got today?
Apple to allow third-party app stores and sideloading
in Europe due to Digital Markets Act.
We talked about this a little bit last week,
but it hadn't been fleshed out in the doc
because of a miscommunication, so we're gonna get into it
in a little bit more detail.
One really quick thing.
Dan, are you on Merch Messages now?
I'm trying my best.
Got it.
If you guys can help, that'd be great.
Okay.
Apple has signaled that it will abide
the EU's Digital Markets Act
and allow third-party app stores and sideloading on iDevices.
This is exciting.
The DMA is intended to prevent abuse of market power
and allow new players to enter digital markets,
basically leveling the playing field against big tech.
It was signed into law in September,
came into effect in November,
and active enforcement will begin in May.
That is a fast timeline for such a...
That is a very fast timeline.
Such an earth-shaking change to the way
that these digital markets have worked up until now.
Apple's objections to date have been numerous.
It will be confusing for users.
It will be a gold rush for the malware industry
and a cyber criminal's best friend.
This would destroy the security of the iPhone.
I'll be very interested to see if Apple's marketing
around the security of the iPhone changes.
I'm willing to bet they don't say the iPhone is not secure.
Yeah.
Hmm.
So maybe they can overcome this after all.
Oh, interesting.
And they said Android experiences
five million attacks per month.
Okay.
Yeah.
And?
How many do they?
Yeah.
Incidentally, the news triggered a stock surge
for dating services and apps.
Oh, wow.
You'll finally be able to have like, say for example,
a pornography app on the app store.
Yeah.
Like Apple has long taken a moral high ground
against certain types of content.
Interesting.
Well, unless it's in Safari web browser,
nobody can use Apple software and hardware
to view such things.
Get real, guys.
While this is broadly seen as a victory for consumers,
some are less sure.
Sami Fathi, a writer for MacRumors,
says that many questions remain
on how Apple might implement this
and suggests that it might, in effect,
force people to sideload.
Apps must be able to access services and sensors
and sideloading could offer greater control for apps
than the app store's restrictions allow.
I have no idea what Sami's point is right now.
Companies like Meta and Spotify are incentivized to leave
as they're in direct competition with Apple
and chafe under app store's rules.
Yeah.
So, no, what's actually going to happen
is in order for Apple to maintain any kind of revenue
from the app store,
they're going to have to take a less abusive cut
and they're going to have to relax their policies.
It's good.
This is good for consumers.
All you're doing is,
Sami, all you're doing is reiterating
why this is good for consumers.
Okay.
Bit odd.
This is a problem.
This is a really good point.
Making sure that people are running the latest app revision
this way is going to be a major issue for developers
versus just having the app store manage this.
That's going to be messy.
And then this third point,
basically it's a mess all around.
I disagree.
Android already allows sideloading.
No, it is not a mess all around.
Most users, I promise you, don't sideload anything.
And it'll probably be the same way.
But,
if Apple has major cash cow apps come to them,
one after another, after another, after another,
this is finally a way for partners to put pressure on Apple,
to actually be partners rather than servants of Apple,
rather than just being grateful that Apple gives them
the privilege of being part of their fiefdom or whatever.
Limited sideloading is already a thing on iOS.
So yeah, things might not change that much.
But right now it's very restrictive.
Users have to import a certificate to do so.
It has to be refreshed weekly to function
if you aren't a developer.
There's an app limit of three.
AltStore, I've never even heard of this,
is apparently a third party app store
that automatically refreshes the certificates.
Now this discussion question, who's right here and why,
I think I've made my position pretty clear.
This is a win for consumer choice.
And again, this is one of those things
where if you're an Apple user who wants to only use
the app store, then by all means,
you should have no objection to this for everyone else
because you can keep just using the app store.
Go for it.
I don't want to.
And I don't like Apple's monopolistic behavior.
So I might choose to do something else.
It's called consumer choice.
You have the choice to do it that way.
And this is effectively a legislative body stepping in
and saying, yeah, Apple has not in good faith provided
consumer choice, has not in good faith put themselves
on a level playing field with their competitors
on their ecosystem and has behaved in a monopolistic way.
If they had acted in good faith,
this probably wouldn't have come to bite them,
but they didn't and so it has.
Too bad.
I don't feel bad for them.
I just can't.
They've been just arseholes to deal with.
Yeah, absolutely.
At like every turn.
They've made their bed.
Now they sleep in it.
Yeah.
I'm glad the EU actually
has the stones to do this.
Now, the next discussion question is,
what would a more open iPhone look like?
Would you be more or less likely to buy one
if it supported third-party app stores and sideloading?
Because man, with sideloading, I'm imagining anyway,
a lot more functionality that I just can't get
unless I want to jailbreak this stupid thing.
Yeah, I think it really depends.
It depends what services start putting themselves up
to be sideloaded.
It depends if users really start actually doing it
at all, because if users don't do it,
then companies aren't going to bother running that setup anyways.
Like there's a lot of variables there.
I think it's one of those things where like first generation
of it might not necessarily matter too much,
but it'll be interesting to see how it evolves over time.
I have another discussion question.
Would Flowplane just immediately go the sideloading route
or would we try and stay on the app store?
Because I know which way I lean right now,
but let's have executive dialogue here.
Let's talk about synergies.
One problem with sideloading and one of the reasons
why we've avoided sending out packages like that
in the past is updates.
Yeah, absolutely.
We don't have an in-app updater.
That is something that is possible,
but that is a tool that we would have to make.
Which costs money.
Yeah.
So I don't know, it really depends.
I could definitely see someone making like some open source
like package updater for iPhones or something.
Yeah.
Or like an updated app store.
Or that.
Might have their own updater, yep.
Yeah.
So if, I mean, there's a lot of potential there.
There's definitely a lot more we could do with the app.
If we could just let it get sideloaded.
There's a lot of things that we've been stopped from doing.
Like we'll get complaints.
People will email customer support and they're like,
hey, this isn't very intuitive.
It's like, you are 100% correct.
I completely agree with you.
And I apologize that there's nothing we can do about it.
Yeah.
Like we can't.
They're like, it would be really great
if when I go to try to do this thing,
it could tell me that like I have to do it on the website.
And it's like, yep, that would be awesome.
But we can't.
We can't send you to our website, sorry.
It is what it is.
Ridiculous.
Yeah, it's just.
And they've gotten a little bit better with it over time.
But like, it's still far from
what I would consider acceptable.
Yeah.
I think merch messages are much more under control.
There's three potentials.
No incoming, and then we have 15 curated.
So we have a lot to go through, but the wave has subsided.
Let me jump through a couple of these really quickly.
Epic Games is gonna be paying half a billion dollars
for COPPA violations and the use of dark patterns.
Are you familiar with dark patterns?
Yeah.
I would think that you would be.
Good.
Then why don't you explain them?
Because you probably know more about them than I do.
So a dark pattern,
and I apologize if I explain this poorly,
but a dark pattern is like,
trying to mislead or trick users in certain ways.
Yeah.
Like manipulate your website or your service so that.
Manipulate the appearance of things,
manipulate the user experience of things
like where you position different buttons,
manipulate things to try to funnel people
in a certain direction,
which is probably not something that they would want to do.
Yeah.
So like if you kind of obscure your sign up
to a newsletter thing,
and it's a checkbox,
and it's automatically checked,
but it's like really small
and it's somewhere that you wouldn't expect.
That'd be a dark pattern.
That would be a dark pattern.
Or if you have like a buy now button, okay,
for a product someone might want.
And then in very small text,
it says you authorize us to send you one of these every month.
Yeah.
And you didn't realize that you were.
Recurring subscription.
Signing up for a subscription service.
That would be a dark pattern.
So it's using subtlety to get users to do inputs
that are not what they actually want.
So $245 million of the settlement
is in refunds for dark patterns and billing practices
that essentially made it too easy
to make purchases in game,
often accidentally, according to the FTC.
It is claimed that Epic would intentionally
switch button positions to create situations
where charges were made with a single button press.
Charges would also be made
when the game would be woken from sleep mode
through these dark patterns of deceitful UI.
Until 2018, Epic would allow charges to be made
without cardholder action or approval.
So by default, simple button presses would lead to charges.
The rest of it is for violating
the Children's Online Privacy Protection Act, COPPA,
by not including adequate parental controls,
collecting children's personal information
without parental consent,
and using overly relaxed privacy settings
that included text and voice chat being active by default,
which I think we can all agree is not good.
I don't want to hear their annoying voices.
Sorry, what were you talking about?
Other examples, by the way, can include things like,
some of these were brought up in Floatplane chat.
If you're trying to unsubscribe from something,
the cancel button being really big and obvious
and the unsubscribe button being a hyperlink
that you can barely even tell is a button,
one that you see fairly often with subscriptions.
Man, I was, okay, so a little while ago,
my grandfather passed away and we were going through
and canceling some of his online subscriptions
and accounts and things, and he had Amazon Prime.
Canceling Amazon Prime is hard.
Why is it so hard?
Because Daddy Bezos needs more yachts.
And I legitimately think, I almost, man, I had told myself
I wanted to rage on the WAN Show about this,
and I think I forgot about it,
but I think it's genuinely like oppressive to old people.
Yeah.
Because it's really confusing.
And they move around where you need
to press the cancel button,
and they frame it in a bunch of really weird ways.
And the website feels like it degrades.
It feels like you go back to 1990s internet,
because you get these weird ancient UIs
as you're going through.
And it's very weird.
You feel like you're doing something wrong.
It's so not okay, in my opinion.
I don't know.
It actually bothered me a lot.
I already don't exactly have the most positive
relationship with Amazon, so I do have to consider that.
But it was actually really terrible.
Yeah, Luke was probably in more of a hurry
to cancel a Prime subscription than most people would be.
Yeah, that's probably fair enough.
But another thing, and this is not a drag on him,
he had multiple Amazon accounts that we ended up figuring out.
It's really easy to accidentally do that.
Had multiple Prime subscriptions.
It should be way harder to do that.
Yep.
Like, I just, man.
I don't know.
Someone in full-plane chat just said,
I'm a sysadmin, and it took me 20 minutes to cancel Prime.
That should be one click.
That should not be okay.
Like, that's actually crazy.
I don't know.
In my opinion, that's an extremely egregious version
of like a dark pattern.
Yeah, it's trying to push people to not do the thing
that you don't want them to do.
So, yeah.
I just wanted to read this comment from Jedi2,
tagging Dan.
You guys handled the outage well.
Very impressed the show wasn't canceled tonight.
Luke and I have a streak, okay?
Yeah, it's not allowed to happen.
It never entered my mind
that the show was not going to go on tonight.
I will not be responsible for breaking the streak.
No one here is gonna be the one to break the streak.
I was told that I have too much vacation time recently,
so I had to book some vacation time.
And when I was trying to figure out when I could book it,
I was describing like, okay, I could do these things.
I could do these things, whatever.
I was like, I can't take Fridays off.
It's just, it's not an option.
I was like, WAN Show must go on.
When I was traveling, I technically had those Fridays off,
but I was just like, no.
I'm on vacation this week.
Yeah, perfect example.
You know that.
Yeah, it's gonna happen.
WAN Show must go on.
I'm on vacation right now.
What's up?
Speaking of things that might have brought people
back from vacation.
This isn't really properly in the doc,
but the write-up by Scotty Seng on the forum is quite good.
So we're gonna use that.
Alert for LastPass users.
The breach in August was worse than expected.
A lot worse.
I use LastPass.
I've hated it for so long,
but I have assigned the task
of switching our corporate password manager
over to something else to multiple people
for like almost two years now.
And it hasn't been done.
Actually over a year.
I think I'm gonna take the mantle.
Are you?
That would be great.
Thanks.
Yeah.
Can we go with,
is KeePass the one that has the local nonsense?
I don't know.
Well, I want that one.
I haven't done research in like basically at all.
I just, I've been like frustrated
that we haven't switched for quite a while.
And then this article came out and I was like, we're moving.
It's like, I'm gonna find a way.
I'm gonna get it done.
We're moving.
We have to move.
But anyways, yeah.
Previously mentioned breach in August.
LastPass mentioned encrypted data was downloaded,
but still secure.
However, this recent update states that the breach was worse.
Than expected as actors can brute force,
decrypt the copied backup vaults that were removed
out of their LastPass secured cloud containers.
LastPass is advertising users to, sorry,
advising users to reset and update all passwords,
especially the master password.
This is not exactly.
The worst part is that there's information
that is stored in plain text.
Yeah.
So this is-
Usernames and passwords.
Not so much.
But the, as far as I can tell the main account information.
So the name, email address is accessible to the hackers
and the URLs.
Yes, the URLs.
Were stored in plain text.
Yep.
So what that does is it makes the process of going through
and trying to brute force the username and password
much easier if you know what service it's for.
So that's one thing.
And number two is the entire web history of a user
is pretty valuable, even without the usernames and passwords.
And you would have it because they're tied.
It's not the entire web history.
Well, it's everywhere you have an account.
Yeah.
It's very similar, but not the same.
I'm just saying.
Sure.
I'm just saying.
But yeah, it's, I mean, this is horrible.
Yeah.
I'm just going to get out in front of it.
I look at some bad stuff on the internet.
Sure.
Mine leaks, whatever, there's stuff in there.
Yeah.
And like one of the things too, is like people can say
like these master passwords are going to be basically
impossible to brute force.
It's a non-zero possibility.
And like compute, it's going like this.
Yep.
And people can find ways to break certain types
of encryption and all this other type of stuff.
So you should update all of your passwords
and that's gonna suck, but you should do it anyways.
And you should leave LastPass.
That would be my suggestion.
Yeah.
Yep.
So we need to update all of our passwords.
Yep.
And we need to leave LastPass.
Especially our passwords for celebrityfeetpics.com.
Yeah.
Do you got that one?
I don't even know if that's a real site.
It probably is.
I think, I think.
It has to be.
Isn't, there's some, there's some website that does that.
I don't know if it's called that.
Oh, I'm sure there is.
This particular one isn't it.
Nope.
It's, it's this at the moment.
Oh.
So it seems to be parked.
Yeah, it's parked.
There's, there's something like that though.
Oh, I'm sure there is.
Cause I remember like forever ago,
you were on there or something.
On where?
I think we like joked about it.
You were on some website that like tracks celebrity feet
pics.
Shut up.
I guarantee this is a thing.
I did not think this was going to be something we were going
to be looking up on WAN Show today.
Um, but I like.
Men.wikifeet?
Wikifeet.
Yeah.
Hmm.
Interesting.
Yep.
Is that you?
I mean, this is.
Yeah.
This almost certainly is.
This is.
I'm pretty sure this is.
Yep.
This is my old bathroom scale.
That's definitely my towel.
Yeah.
Huh.
That's weird.
Oh, you might want to close the page.
I think there was something.
No, no, no, no.
Close it.
Just close the page.
Okay.
I see.
Yeah.
Nope.
Anywho.
It is what it is.
A UK regulator warns that sharing Netflix passwords
may be illegal.
Oh.
UK's Intellectual Property Office said on Tuesday
that sharing passwords to access content
breaks copyright law.
The comment was seemingly unsolicited
as Netflix has never stated that it would take legal action
against British people
for sharing passwords, which is jolly good of them, I suppose.
And since making the comment,
the IPO has removed references to password sharing
from the guidance portion of their website,
but a spokesperson confirmed the agency's stance
on the matter, saying there are a range of provisions
in criminal and civil law, which may be applicable
in the case of password sharing,
where the intent is to allow a user
to access copyright protected works without payment.
TLDR, sharing a password is illegal
in both a criminal and civil sense,
according to this particular.
It's okay.
Sorry, I'm gonna.
Body.
I'm gonna interject for a second.
What now?
People pointed out that you didn't notice
that was a problem because you don't see ads.
It's true though.
It just happened.
We weren't kidding.
It's actually a thing.
Oh, I find that so funny.
Remember those, remember those ads
that would have like a super attractive,
attractive woman, and then it would be like,
by the way, there's a car in the picture or whatever.
Oh yeah, sure.
That's super like cringe style of ad.
Yeah.
You just see the car.
Well, no, I just didn't see anything.
You wouldn't see anything.
Okay.
Did you see the delay?
How long it took for me to find a pair of breasts
on a webpage?
Doesn't see the ad.
I can't see it.
It doesn't matter what's on the ad.
If it's an ad, I can't see it.
It's invisible to me.
We try, I'm so happy that we now have like really good proof
because like, I know it's a thing,
but when you try to tell people,
I think a lot of people are like, oh yeah, sure.
Whatever.
Like, I don't, I'm not affected by ads.
No, he doesn't see them.
It's different.
Like it's actually fundamentally different.
So it was like, Linus is ad block.
Yeah.
I can get annoyed by them.
Like the video we were shooting earlier
with the worst videos,
we were logged into the Linus Tech Tips,
Google ads, Google account.
Yeah.
Because that's the only way for us to see
the true like dislike ratio,
which kind of helps when we're watching the content
and trying to figure out what was so bad about it, right?
And we don't have premium on that account.
And I was annoyed by waiting
to watch the video I want to watch,
but I couldn't tell you a single thing we saw an ad for.
Not a single one.
I have no idea.
All I really remember was registering because I,
we've talked about this before, I have a premium account.
All I remember was registering that there was like,
we had to wait eight seconds for the current one
and there was another one coming.
And I was like, oh my goodness, this is crazy.
But I don't remember what the ads were.
That's because all I'm looking at is that timer
for when I can click skip.
Yeah.
That's literally the only thing interesting.
Becomes like a reaction timing game.
As soon as I realized I can't skip it,
my attention is somewhere else.
It sure as heck isn't on my computer.
Yeah. Yeah.
But yeah, sorry.
That was just, that was really funny.
Anywho, despite no streaming service ever,
so much as hinting at pursuing legal action
against password sharers,
CPS, the Crown Prosecution Service,
has not ruled out the possibility
of it seeking criminal charges against people
that privateer password from their friends and loved ones.
That's gotta be wild.
Oh, they would need to have the case referred to them.
So one of the streaming services
would have to pursue legal action.
Interesting.
I mean, I don't think this is gonna happen.
To put this in perspective,
torrenting could carry a sentence of up to 10 years.
It was raised from two years in 2017
on the recommendation of the IPO.
However, most prison sentences for piracy
have been for those running torrent sites or live streams.
Here's our discussion question.
Oh boy.
If Floatgain were to pursue legal action
against someone for sharing a password,
what would you anticipate the fallout to be like?
Terrible.
We have never considered pursuing legal action for that.
We actually have some stuff that kind of tracks it.
Really?
I didn't even know.
I know of a couple accounts
that like are almost certainly doing that.
We have banned an account for doing it,
at least one account for doing it on like a mass scale.
I know about that.
But when we think it's probably a situation,
like I ran into one where I actually ended up
talking to them about it.
This was like a few years ago when I used to stream.
But they came into my stream and I was like,
oh, it's you, you have the same username.
And I just asked them about it.
And it was like, it was on one IP for like, a second.
And then it was on two IPs.
And it was on two IPs.
Yeah.
And it's like, huh?
And they were like, yeah, I mean,
my brother and I shared an account when we lived together.
And then I don't remember the exact details,
but it was something along the lines of like,
I went to university or whatever,
we both still use the account.
And I'm like, cool.
I was half expecting it to be,
I was half expecting it to be my parents divorced.
Oh, well, no, okay, the thing that we were seeing
was it being used at the same time.
Right, okay, sure, sure, sure.
So like-
And my parents watched the land show.
But yeah, like, I don't care about that.
I don't, I'm not encouraging people to do this,
but like, if it's within reason, I don't-
I don't think we've ever really taken a stance on it.
Yeah, the problem is when you post like,
your username and login on some forum
and you're like, how about it, God?
Like, that's when it becomes an issue,
if you're sharing it with-
Or if you're using your account to download the material
and then redistributing it, then obviously-
Yeah, there's-
There's issues there, but as long as you're not like,
really abusing it, like, we don't really care.
What if Flowplane was 300 times the size?
I mean, I'm sure we would see it the same way as we do now,
to be completely honest.
We would be not happy with people
that were mass sharing it,
but in the way that I think a lot of Netflix accounts
were shared back in the day,
I think it would kind of be fine.
I don't know, yeah.
We should do some merch messages.
Yeah.
Because those we definitely,
those definitely help us survive.
Yeah.
All right, hit us, Dan.
Okay, I've got one here from-
You're up.
Hey, Linus and Luke, and behind the scenes people,
liking the spooky WAN Show.
Yeah, should we go spooky for the rest of merch messages?
Okay, sure.
I'm down, let's do it, I'll do it.
No, no, you got it, you got your thing, you got your thing.
Okay, wanted to ask Linus
when the Secret Shopper Part Three is coming.
Oh, okay. Been waiting for a while.
So I wanted to interject on this one,
and I actually wanted to answer this one,
although he's probably gonna say this, too.
He's probably gonna say the same thing.
The whole point is that we can't tell you,
because the, and I wanted to make sure I said that
before he potentially says something else.
Okay, yeah, yeah.
Because the companies can't know it's coming.
Yep.
So-
Has to be, boom, out of nowhere.
Yep.
You never expect the Spanish Inquisition.
Yeah, so sorry, but no.
Yeah, there will be another one.
It might be happening now.
It might be happening in a couple of years.
It might've happened already.
Who knows?
We might've filmed it all already.
Can't tell you anything, I'm sorry.
Yeah.
Are you a mole?
Who do you work for?
Is it iBUYPOWER?
Is it Maingear?
Is it Dell?
Tell me!
No, it's not Dell.
Dell doesn't care.
All right, I got another one here from Tom.
Hi, guys.
Do you think overclocking is slowly fading away
now that CPUs and GPUs are already pushing the limits?
Yes.
Easy, quick.
Got another one here from Jake.
Hi, Linus.
Do you seem to enjoy making some videos
a lot more than others,
like the recent chat GPT PC build?
Do you ever wish you could do
I've missed that.
session project videos?
And do you, would you need a smaller channel slash team
to be able to do so?
Merry Christmas all.
I mean, you're already seeing that,
you're already seeing that process playing out, right?
Like that's where the smaller channels
like ShortCircuit are coming from.
ShortCircuit's a way for us to cover products
that just wouldn't get enough eyeballs on them
to justify uploading to LTT
because it would just harm the channel.
And you're gonna see a lot more of it.
I think you can expect to see more niche channels
as the lab team builds out their testing
capabilities and we have all this data
and we need to publish it somehow, right?
Yeah.
In text is great, but it doesn't make any money.
So obviously we're gonna continue to do what we do best,
which is create video content.
So yeah, you're gonna see that a lot going forward.
Now, with all of that said,
I think you might be getting a,
I may, I think sometimes people can get the wrong vibe
just because I take on, for example,
a more serious tone in a video doesn't mean I'm having, you know, a more serious tone in a video doesn't mean I'm having, you know, a more serious tone in a video doesn't mean I'm having, you know, a more serious tone in a video doesn't mean I'm having, you know,
less fun in the creation process
or that I don't think it's more important
or that I don't think it's as important.
Sometimes I think it's more important,
but you also can't have the same amount of fun
in everything you do.
So like if we were to go through the last few videos,
yeah, this doing everything the chat bot says was a blast
because I'm super, super into this technology.
And a lot of the time, you know,
when we come up with a video concept,
the whole reason that we're doing it
is because it's something I want to talk
about and then we just need kind of a vehicle for that.
So building a computer was just an excuse
to talk about chat GPT in a mainline video.
This one I had a blast with.
I mean, Jeff and I have never really gotten a chance
to hang out outside of, you know, a few
small encounters at like, you know, work events and stuff like that.
And so I always enjoy Intel Extreme Tech Upgrade.
And I think that comes through in the videos.
People love Intel Extreme Tech Upgrade.
This one was really stressful.
It was a really fun idea.
Like doing tech support.
But some of the tools we ran into some challenges
or rather the lines got flooded
and handling a flooded support line is like never fun.
So I think that did take a bit of the fun out of it.
There were elements of it that were super fun,
like Dr. Ian Cutress calling into the show.
And just bloody guy rolling you with like a crazy question.
Hey, I got it, though. I'm feeling good about that.
It's pretty good.
Sponsored stuff is always challenging, right?
Like I said, everything that I wanted to say,
but that back and forth, I'm so glad that I have a sales team
that kind of deals with all of that for me now,
where the brand will come and say, oh, we don't like the way you worded it.
And I'll say too bad.
And then our sales team gets to kind of play Messenger in between.
But this is a super cool monitor.
I had fun with that.
The fake merch, always a lot of fun for me.
Working with the Hacksmith team, total blast.
Like there's nothing in here, this monitor, I was not that interested in.
And then I actually used it.
And all of a sudden I was like, whoa, this is super cool.
Love, I mean, we don't really make a lot of videos
about stuff that I'm not interested in.
Because I hand select pretty much every topic.
Not all, but very many.
Is there anything, okay, I did not hand select for us
to forget about Luke's portion of the part one of the art challenge.
This I hand selected.
This I didn't hand select.
This was pitched to me.
Tanner pitched this, adding USB-C to old consoles.
That was cool.
But when he pitched it, initially I was like, uh-huh, and?
And then when he explained it, I was like, whoa, that's so cool.
And so, yeah, I'm super into it.
You know what?
I think what you might see in a video like this is that I didn't get to play
around with it firsthand as much.
If I'd gotten to really play with it, I think you might have seen a bit more
animation on my side.
Sometimes.
Sometimes it's the end of the day, and I'm kind of tired, like I'm doing my best.
But no matter how enthusiastic I am about something, I still do have to present.
My job is not just as simple as being someone who's into this stuff and talking
about it, and I wish it was, because it'd be a lot easier to hire people to help me
with it.
But Luke knows.
I mean, it's not something people can just pick up overnight.
Try it.
Go make a video.
It's really hard.
Try to get views on YouTube.
Yeah.
It is a real job, and I'm glad that you almost never see that anymore.
You know, well, if you want to make money, get a real job instead of being a YouTuber.
It is a real job.
It's not easy.
Yeah.
The mood lighting is a throwback to when the power went out earlier on the show,
for those of you who are just joining us.
What else you got for us, Dan?
OK, I got one here from Jose.
Oh, it's in, yeah, it's in Mexican.
Saludos desde Mexico.
I'm awful at this.
I hope you have a great holiday.
I would like to know how the dual audio project is going.
Love your videos, but some friends don't speak English,
so the dub would help a lot to show this amazing channel.
Still in progress.
I haven't gotten an update from Ed on it in the last little while,
but we've been just kind of trying to push through the product releases and
Q4 is a thing.
Limited people availability due to weather, due to the time of year.
That's been a backburner project compared to LTT videos must be shot.
Because that's ultimately what pays the bills.
So I wish I had an update for you, but I'm afraid that I don't for the moment.
OK, I got another one here from Kevin.
Can you test whether lifting a laptop by its palm rest causes...
You answered this earlier, didn't you?
Yes.
I probably didn't deal with it properly.
Cool idea.
Anonymous.
Hey, guys, I'm waiting to get into IT soon.
And with the technical difficulties experienced tonight, I was wondering how help desk issues
are solved at LMG.
Oh, we did this one, too.
OK, it's me.
Did you do that?
Yeah.
Did you do this one?
No.
Colin, shout out from Korea.
In VR benchmarks, there are different experiences based on hardware setups, and even minor hardware
changes have significant implications.
Given VR requires a human interaction, how would you try to objectively make a comparable
VR benchmark?
It's really challenging because the level of detail changes constantly and can change
depending on, like you said, a human interaction with the headset.
Or with the in-game environment.
We do have an expert on staff now.
I think he's actually in the chat.
Jake, are you in the chat?
Other, more different Jake, who has a lot of experience in machine vision from mobile
benchmarking, which has a lot of the same challenges.
And I think it's something that we're going to be able to solve in the long term, but
it's going to take some time.
OK.
Got another one here from Jay.
Hope Luke's house gets fixed quickly.
Me, too.
Do you think we'll ever start seeing a new house?
No.
I think rather than create like the the memory cost is not a huge amount compared to the overall
bill of materials for our card over you know 250 300 which is almost all of them now so I don't
think it is worthwhile for our company to create these different SKUs unless they think there's a
very compelling competitive reason I think we've seen reactionary reactionary responses to a lower
end competitor with less VRAM for example to keep costs under control but very rarely do we see not
at least since the 900 series I think very rarely do no 10 series had a 3 gig and a 6 gig version
of the 1060 if I recall correctly very rarely do we see NVIDIA go out of their way and AMD for that
matter to have different VRAM versions of their cards lately and yeah my my guess is just that
they don't want to support more versions of the SKU why have one that is
effectively more effective than the 1060 and the 1060 and the 1060 and the 1060 and the 1060 and
are effectively obsolete before the other one if it doesn't actually save that much on the bill of
materials the 3080 had 10 and 12 but those were not quite exactly the same card if I recall correctly
and again that different version kind of came along later it wasn't just yeah we've got an 8 gig
and a 4 gig version of this card right out of the gate like I think the last one I can remember that
was like that was the RX 480 I think just or 470 one of them I think just had a four and an 8 gig
version don't quote me on that though okay got another one here from anonymous Linus
Linus and Luke what would it take for me to get an LTT backpack signed by as many people on both
teams as possible go to LTX go to LTX yeah that's why I curated that question yeah that's your only
chance we literally don't even ship the products from this warehouse so how would I sign it yeah
like I'm not in that I've been in that warehouse once yeah it's like actually not a thing but
pretty much the whole team is going to be there I'm assuming I think a lot of people are I think
it's one of those things where you don't have to be there but you better not miss it kind of things
yeah kind of like the Christmas party yeah that one here from Nathan Merry Christmas LMG crew and
families has a standoff tool or set of standoff bits ever been considered for the screwdriver
found myself needing some when replacing a motherboard recently yeah it doesn't fit in
the built-in bit holder so once we have yeah once we have a separate bit holding mechanism
we will absolutely do some socketed bits totally makes sense matter of time this one's from David
hey guys I've recently developed an addiction to buying 4K Blu-rays
after throwing an LG OLED and svf speakers in my bedroom any favorite go-to movies for putting your
home theater to the test so far mine's been Pacific Rim not the best writing but man does it I thought
you might have a good answer oh yeah not really I just um there's some really cool scenes in that
weird horror uh horror movie with the with the cult um man I can't remember what it's a lot
of horror movies yeah but they've burned they burn a barn at the end I don't know if it's like it's a
know anyway i'm not sure um this looks looks really great in HDR yeah 1917 is definitely a
good one chats uh chats getting us some good ones i refuse to ever put the hobbit on any screen in
my house good so that's cool oh no yeah midsummer that's the one uh blade runner 2049 not a great
one just the way it's mastered um we found out kind of later after it like it looks really great
but the way it's mastered doesn't really let um better HDR displays stretch their legs from my
understanding so we've we've stopped using it um yeah lala land is really beautiful yeah the
hurricane obviously you know since i own so many copies of it it's a whole thing i bought it on
dvhs for a video recently wow yeah it's worth watching dvhs is a hell of a drug okay i got
another one here what happened to the
GPU shirt design will it ever come back what happened to all of our shirt designs
right now we only have blank shirts i didn't know that yeah so our shirt printer our local
screen printer got evicted from his space um and like i don't know at risk of talking publicly
about you know dealings that have not been acknowledged publicly i'm just gonna say it
um
i don't understand uh the response that um our screen printer gave us when we basically said
hey we've got lab one sitting empty why don't you lease from us and like we're some way over
50 of your business anyway so you know why don't we why don't why don't we just we we don't want
a disruption we don't have another source we don't want a disruption in your business you
know what i'm saying you know we don't want a disruption in your business obviously you know
we're gonna help take care of you because we don't want a disruption in your business
we know it muddies the waters a little bit but it would be at just it would be at a market rate
we're not looking to screw you over because we don't want any disruption to your business yeah
um you know the way that i saw it it would be more beneficial we'd have been happy to sign
a short-term lease uh just to make sure that there's no interruption to his business um
and basically the response was like from my point of view from like a from like a
a business planning standpoint i understand part of it you don't want to have too many eggs in one
basket you know you don't want to have that one client that's most of your sales and also your
landlord you know i like i get it but on the other hand your options are us or not running nothing
your business right now you could do like a one-year lease and figure it out after and like
we want to help you out um we've we've never done anything like evil to you so what makes you think
we're going to start now um so from from just like uh it seemed like a very emotional response
rather than a um uh a carefully considered response so i don't know uh we were looking
for alternatives we found one that's actually run by one of the companies that we work with
for overseas production but frankly and again no offense if you're watching this but the quality's
so we need something that matches what we were using before in terms of the quality
but we need we either need to find a new source for that or we need the person we've been working
with to pull his or her head out of their butt and figure out how to like actually print some
shirts instead of just like sitting and not printing shirts which is obviously not good
for their business um the badger hound says bro come on this is hubris that's a perfectly valid
reason you're just mad they said no well they should be mad they said no they are currently
working together it's not just for us for anyone that's not good that's bad um and like i said i
fully understand their discomfort which is why we were willing to offer a short-term lease nobody
does that uh maybe in the market you're in that's the thing uh here you you don't sign a one-year
commercial lease or anything like that less than what is it less than 0.1 i think commercial
vacancy yeah but it's one of those things where if we're if we're working together well we're
working together like you got to communicate you got to say look here are my concerns and we can do
what we can do and we can do what we can do and we can do what we can do and we can do what we can
to address it but if you're just going to kind of be irrational and just say no no i don't like it i
don't like i don't like it okay whatever then then i guess you're not printing shirts which is pretty
bad um oh next up yeah good luck with that got another one here from thomas hi Linus any update
on the summertime jacket hearing your thoughts on dealing with the hassle of sunscreen had hit
home for me would love to know if this is still happening or if it's just an idea
oh still happening yeah it should be out for next summer
uh the it's a great garment i absolutely love it i took it with me on my hawaii trip a little
while ago and was just just pleased his punch pleased his punch okay we've got one here from
seth i've been called petty what do you mean petty what are you talking about i'm telling you
facts you cannot like facts we tried to help offer a solution and it wasn't taken and now
it's really bad for everyone involved for everyone including the other person it's a
lose-lose nobody won what's pretty about it there's a uncomfortable or a lose-lose
yeah and the uncomfortable it's like yeah but you just got to like communicate it's
like any relationship you can just shut down
okay well then the relationship's over right or you work with people those are those are
really your only two options okay this one's from seth LTT video idea right ways of power management
tech ups surge protection went upgrade power to accommodate all the ltd talks about servers new
gen gaming pcs um yeah i mean really that's something that we're not going to be able to
cover in the kind of depth that we want to cover it until the psu tester is fully up and running
and maybe we have like a second one because it's going to be an enormous volume of devices to push
through it so in time in time okay i've got another one here from anonymous hey Linus i'm
absolutely loving the screwdriver i often find myself fidgeting with it instead of my usual
fidget toys and was wondering if you ever thought of making a high quality fidgets as i find a lot
of them to be lower quality yes we are already planning a fidget toy using the exact same
ratchet from the screwdriver it's not going to be cheap because it's a super expensive part
but i'm not going to apologize for that because it's going to be the best darn fidget ratchet
on the market that's all we hear all the time sorry not sorry just buy buy another
driver yeah um this one's from jacob gift cards until i can get a backpack what is y'all's take
on development teams releasing games in alpha stages to sell copies for cash flow and spending
10 years without leaving alpha or just never finishing the game
sorry um are you saying tarkov i don't know what you're talking about yeah tarkov's still in beta
uh tarkov if i don't know if that's clue or sorry true if you google is tarkov still in
beta it says it's enclosed beta i don't think it's enclosed i was able to buy a license for it fine
just fine i don't think it's enclosed close to anyone who doesn't have a credit card and pays
the money yeah yeah there you go um minecraft was another fairly notorious one minecraft was
in beta for like an extremely long time um citizen star citizen yeah i i mean it's a
it's a thing and it's uh it's kind of frustrating but i can also understand
a lot of the reasons why if i had to be honest when we were starting out with this game
um there's a couple of things that i can i was impressed with the game itself
first and foremost because of the most pullback rate it has so i i'm going to say out of the
way i don't know if you have a video game that has that kind of a pullback rate with arena i
would say that arena has a pullback rate pretty large um for the development team woes especially
from actually no pretty much only from indie development studios if you're a indie development
studio you've got a few people on staff you have a certain um amount of time you could run for is that
which I mean, is true if you sell enough copies
to keep your company going
and suddenly is immediately not true if you don't.
Yeah, but then the flip side of that
is if you don't sell any copies,
then maybe it just never gets made at all.
So if it's your only way,
but then it feels like in some cases
it might not have been the only way.
Yeah, it can be a little bit gross,
but I think it's just something
we're gonna have to live with.
Did we lose power again?
We had a flash over.
We had a flicker?
Yeah.
It was just a brown up.
Oh, you can hear it.
Well, we're almost done.
All right, all right.
But yeah, I think sometimes you gotta do what you gotta do
and I think sometimes it's abused and that is what it is.
Whoa, look at this.
Now would be a good time to insert ads.
There's a money button.
Okay, hold on, let's do the math.
There's 9,900 viewers on YouTube.
Okay, hold on.
Okay, so what is it?
30 seconds for an ad.
So 0.5 minutes times 9,900 equals...
Okay, so hold on a second.
What is this?
Okay, this is 4,950 minutes.
Okay, divided by 60 equals 82 hours, right?
Am I doing this right so far?
I think so, yeah.
Okay, divided by 24.
Okay, so it's 3.4 days, which is about 1% of a year.
Okay, so now hold on a second.
If we assume an average lifespan of about 75 years,
then that would be, let's say, so 1% of a year,
0.1% of 10 years, point...
About, let's say about 0.01% of a human lifetime, okay?
How much is that worth?
So if every time I press this button,
I killed 0.01% of a human, would I keep pressing this button?
Let's get into it.
Let's talk moral and ethical dilemmas.
Oh my goodness.
If you could kill 0.01% of a human
every time you pressed a button-
How much would that be worth to you?
And you never knew any of them except your mom,
who watches The Land Show,
would you keep pressing the button, Luke?
Oh my goodness.
That is a dark but somewhat accurate way to look at that.
Yeah.
As long as I carry the zero,
yeah, I think it's a little bit less than that.
As the channel grows.
As the channel grows, man.
I would look at the cumulative hours
spent watching the content and I would do that math.
Like this is in the very early days and I'd go,
holy crap, LTT has consumed one lifetime.
Now it's 10 lifetimes.
Now it's a hundred lifetimes.
And I'm-
X amount of lifetimes, like a week or a day or whatever.
It would make me think about the value of it, you know?
Yeah.
Are we putting, are we working hard enough
to make sure that like, like this cost?
Yeah.
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
And I think I've talked a lot on the show before
about how a central aspect of my personal morals
and ethics is human cost, right?
So when you steal a pack of dental floss, you know,
what is the human cost of that?
You know, fairly negligible.
Whereas when you steal an amount that's like equivalent
to a year's work for someone, you know,
I see that as like 1 50th of murder,
if you get what I mean.
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
So you spent that time of their life doing something
that was only to get their house or their car
or whatever else it is.
It might even be worse than that though.
You're, you are, you're effectively,
you're effectively stealing.
What is that?
You're effectively stealing life from them.
And so I would reflect on this number and go like,
am I stealing life or am I enriching it?
You know, I got to-
Yeah.
Whew.
Yeah.
I don't know, just the kind of stuff
that keeps me up at night, you know?
Anywho.
Moving on.
I have another one for Michael.
What's the best Christmas gift you guys have gotten
from each other other than that was not work related?
We don't give gifts to each other.
The gift of not having to worry about it.
Yeah. That's the best gift.
It is a pretty good gift.
Yeah. Hey Luke, guess what?
Merry Christmas. I got you nothing.
Merry Christmas, man. Me too.
I, I was trying to think when I, so I curated that one.
I was trying to think if there was something
that we've ever like done.
But I think it's just always been-
Hey bro, I know you're busy.
Yeah.
Have a good one.
Yep. Which is solid.
Yeah.
That's a good way to go.
Yeah. It's good.
Yeah. We are, are, nope, I'm not going to say that.
I'll say this.
There are more people where I feel some amount of obligation
to give Christmas gifts to this year.
And it's a lot of people.
Yeah. It's a pain.
And like I-
I hate it.
I don't, I don't mind it as much as, as you do.
But at a certain point, I'm like trying to tally in my head.
I'm like, have I completed my shopping
for all these different people?
And I'm like, this is a lot of people.
And then trying to keep track of that.
And you don't want to just like run to a mall
and buy garbage the week before Christmas.
So you try to think about it like throughout the year.
And it's like, man, there's a lot of things to,
to like keep track of.
Yeah. But yeah.
My family's been talking about trying to like,
reduce and stuff.
Cause we like something that we do is we try to reuse
Christmas packing as much as possible.
Yeah.
So like brown paper bags are used very often.
Last year's tags that you put on things.
For sure.
We just put them in a box and you just re-tape it on.
Like, who cares?
We try to do stuff like that to make it less of a waste.
And we've all been communicating to each other
for a while now to like, don't try,
try to really avoid buying people things
that are likely going to end up being garbage.
Yeah. Right.
But we're-
we're probably going to continue down,
continue down that path to a certain degree.
Yeah.
We use a newspaper in my family.
Cool. Yeah. That's a good one.
We've run out of newspaper.
It's become a problem.
The only thing newspaper is good for.
So it makes sense that it's all getting used
to wrap presents.
Yep.
We used to use the comics pages specifically.
That's cool.
That's actually nice.
Yeah. That's actually pretty sweet.
Yeah. I try and do the princess auto for dad.
And then like, you know, anyway, this one's from Zachary.
Will you publish an external 3D model of the screwdriver?
Publishing the model is common in industry
and it would facilitate 3D printed LTT driver case
I'm designing.
PS, why no PH00, Phillips double zero
or PH triple zero bits in the Phillips set?
All right. You got a couple of questions here.
Yes, we have considered publishing an external 3D model
of the screwdriver.
We need to make sure that we have the proper authorization
from the other parties involved in the design.
So whatever we might feel about it, we,
it was a collaborative product.
So we need to make sure that everybody's on the same page.
Yeah. We'd, we'd love to make your life easier
for, for 3D printing the driver case you're designing.
So stay, stay tuned as for why no precision bits it's
because it's really not the intended use case of the product.
And we don't wanna encourage people to over-torque those kinds
of products with a, with a big old honking screwdriver.
That's really more for like computer work,
utility work around the house, automotive work.
That's why.
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
tuned though our plan is to have a product where that type of a bit would be more appropriate
okay this one's from aj how did luke become the ceo of Floatplane were you offered the job or did
you apply ask for it i've heard you talk about coding development before did you do that before
you started working at ltd i find it very thematic uh that this came from a person named aj as aj was
the first person that we hired for the project and is still uh lucky instrument luckily to me
instrumental and is still working on the project um i am not tonight i am yeah he's bailing us out
potentially right now actually because as far as i know he can't download this second one until
we're done oh we should finish this he's on east coast time we should so we actually should close
this shout out aj thanks aj sorry thank you thank you this is not the first time and it will not be
the last time
that i call aj out of nowhere and i'm like hey uh i need you to save me uh he's in chat yeah hi
sorry thank you
um yeah uh i so i'm not the ceo of Floatplane um how is i how did i get the job well oh oh
yes i'm ceo and probably cto too is that official or is that just no effective i mean yeah he runs
it um let's put it that way yeah i
so when vessel went down vessel was a platform that we used to be on that did early access
video or whatever when vessel went down we started a thing on the forum which was just a sub part of
the forum called rip vessel and i found a way to mess with the forum software that we had to force
video to sort of maybe kind of go through it the idea was that people could download it and that
sort of worked and then we realized by accident that a bunch of browsers do you remember this
a bunch of browsers
would determine that they could just stream the video yeah as a download
s yeah it would just like play it and we were like wait what is it that easy that's pretty cool
this should be really easy to do and then uh spoiler alert
it's really hard um and then pretty early in i was like whoa i have no idea what i'm doing
uh and aj actually posted a big like i think it was a google doc that he shared
think that's how it was done, but he posted a big thing on the forum being like, uh, yeah,
by the way, here's a plan for like, probably a better, more proper way of doing what you're
trying to do. Um, and it was fairly similar to what Jake, Jake Tyvie and I had kind of
come up with, but again, we weren't really prepared and AJ's proposal for it was like
way better. So I was like, Hey, help me. Um, and then we've just been sort of doing it
ever since there was never really, I don't think there was ever really like I didn't
apply for it. I don't think I asked for it. Oh, definitely not. It just, yeah, it's, it
just sort of happened. It was a revenue source that we had absolutely no replacement for
that time. We really needed one that we needed and there was no other platform that was really
doing what vessel was doing. So we needed to port people somewhere and we needed it
now, which basically meant we needed to develop it internally.
And I was the only person who
had any chance and I barely had a chance and then AJ bailed me out. And then we brought
on, uh, Yuki not way too long after that, both of those peeps are still on the team
and still killing it. Um, and we would be nowhere without them. Um, and then we brought
up other people along the way and now we're here. I don't know. It just, it just, it sort
of happened. It was very not formal. I'll say that much next step.
All right. This is for Luke. Hey, okay. You pretty clearly play have played D and D or
other tabletop games.
I mean, I don't know if you've ever played a tabletop role-playing games. Could you talk
about that?
Sure. I'll, I'll try to make it relatively short. Played a bit of D and D in high school,
played a bit of D and D in university, played a bit of D and D after university. Never like
super seriously, always very socially. Um,
Oh, oh, oh, hot take spicy Luke coming out right at the end of the show.
No, no, it's sad. Luke. Oh, um, I, I rekindled the fire for that with Tyler.
Okay. Sorry. Yeah. Um,
So it's a bit of a sore topic for me now because I miss Tyler. Um, but I eventually, um, while
knowing Tyler and I actually got Tyler kind of into it and he ended up running a campaign
of this, um, without me, cause I couldn't play on the night that he wanted to run it
and stuff, but we used to talk about this stuff all the time. Um, but I ended up playing
edge of the empire with, uh, my brother and a couple of my, uh, my other friends and edge
of the empire was really fantastic.
I like it.
I like it a lot because of how the dice work, because unlike with D and D where you have
like your chance and your damage, um, in edge of the empire, you have, if I remember correctly,
it's it's like damage dice. And then, oh man, it's been a long time since I played. So I'm
going to say this wrong, but it's, it's like opportunity basically. And your dice have
to roll against each other. So you have, you have pluses and minuses for each type. So
if you, if you, uh, say you were, uh, this is edge of the empire.
So it's a lot of like scoundrels and whatnot. So say you had like you're a hand solo type
character, you've got a pistol, you're trying to shoot something that's down a hallway.
Um, and you're, you're not going to do any damage. Your damage dice come up with, uh,
zero or less than zero, but your, your advantage or disadvantage or whatever it was, it was
called, um, dice came up with a large advantage. So now you have to come up with something
that might be advantageous.
And you think about the star Wars universe and you're like, okay, well the shot missed,
it didn't hit the target that I wanted to hit, but let's have it hit the control panel.
That's next to the door. So now the door closes on the person that's trying to run away from
me and you can do cool, like thematic storytelling things through your dice rolls. And I really
thought that was very cool. That added an element that I always felt was missing from
D and D.
Um, and yeah, I used to, I used to nerd out about that, um, with Tyler and then he ended
up running a campaign and I, I believe they liked it. I think, uh, Alex Clark played in
that campaign.
I think. I don't know.
I don't fully remember.
Oh, I'm not sure.
Um, but yeah, it was a long time ago, but yeah. Yeah. I've always played those games
socially. I, I care a lot less for the game than I do for the people that I'm usually
playing it with.
And last one today's from Matthew. Hi Linus and Luke. It's Matt from the call challenge
video. What's the deal with the beef between you and D brand? Are you longtime friends
or is it just something fun you do now?
I hate those guys.
Does my bleep button work?
you D brand.
Seems to work.
Go yourself. D brand.
I think my favorite ad spot I've ever done was for D brand. Do you remember this? We
were at, I had no authorization to do this.
I don't watch ad spots for D brand because those guys.
Fair enough. Uh, we were at CES back in the day and it was like only sponsored by D brand
or something. So every video had a D brand sponsorship on it. And I was trying to make
each one of them different. And I just ran out of ideas and eventually just said D brand
like 30 times and gave no other information or context.
And they loved it. So I was like, sweet. Yeah. I think if that was a lot of other brands,
they probably wouldn't have been too impressed, but, uh, I had a, I had a hunch they'd roll
with it and they did, which was cool, but yeah, screw those guys.
Um, if D brand gets their way, I will be telling you guys about the car soon enough. Um, they,
they, uh,
oh,
why can't i resist their money yes this okay okay okay this is why i love those guys
oh my god oh my god they want me to put the most ass possible skin what is it can you say what it
is it's like just like your own face a bunch of times no no no it's an actual product that
is the kind of thing that might be fine in small doses but over an enormous enormous
vehicle might be a little much oh my goodness that actually might look super cool
but it might look super cool to see on a car one time and not look super cool
to be on your car permanently yeah so i'm uh
uh yes oh my goodness they're so annoying because they'll be like they'll be like hey
no it'd be funny you want to drink a bunch of energy drinks
hey want to do something totally stupid and i'm like no not really and they're like i'll pay more
oh so good so good so we'll see how it goes it makes in their defense it
makes it makes it makes it makes it makes it makes it makes it makes it makes it makes it makes it
makes stuff work because it's going to stand out it's going to be interesting it's going to be
punchy people are going to be interested in it but it's all stuff you're not going to want to do
uh so yeah you got to pay more but i mean yeah gets it done all right see you later guys
bye the show is brought to you by see sonic zoho one and vessi footwear
oh i never said see you again next week same bad time same bad channel i didn't say it
yeah