The WAN Show : Canadian Telcos are Whining, AMD Hawaii Rumours, and GUEST Josh - August 9, 2013
Linus Tech Tips
·Linus Tech Tips
·2014-05-07
·
22,252 words · ~111 min read
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welcome to the W show we're getting Technical and we're getting sweaty
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apparently cuz like if I gave you a bear hug right now like it would be gross you
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know it would be gross but I'm so used to it from sports that it's like it's only a little bit gross right I guess in
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the shower when you guys hug each other you're wet from the
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shower wow you know I never like a
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minute in I never I don't think for a minute
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in I never actually played a sport that involved um like neither did I like
0:32
group showers neither did I oh I mean much to my much to my regret because
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guess yeah I did football you played
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football actually football didn't out of all no way how does football not in
0:44
showers it was hockey football is all about like the bum slapping in the
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showers and stuff is my understanding everyone drove home sweaty everybody H
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like you pretty much never had locker rooms interesting cuz I didn't play
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school football right okay and we're in Canada right where football is like not
1:00
not nearly as big all right so things that are things we have a great L show
1:05
for you guys this week John karmac joins Ulus as CTO but remains working for ID
1:11
software okay so it's he hasn't completely gone off his tree but he's uh
1:16
he's evidently making a major bet on VR
1:20
and Oculus in particular which has got to be really exciting for them
1:23
especially after the tragedy recently where one of their co-founders was uh
1:28
was killed in an accident so uh that's uh that's kind of a big deal uh lab
1:33
grown Burger cost $300,000 tastes gross
1:37
apparently um the jobs movie has been uh
1:41
sort of critically blown up a little bit was who
1:47
is is outspoken on everything and very interesting to listen to yeah yeah yeah
1:52
exactly um has come out and said that a
1:56
a very main particular scene in the movie just didn't happen at all and it's
2:00
he's not too worried that it didn't happen because obviously certain okay you're telling them too much about it
2:04
this is the pre thing okay
2:09
okay really you've got oh you've got to be kidding me okay well I blame I blame
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diesel for this hit it add media file
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without further Ado it's August 9th 2013
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and I don't have my
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headphones yes the green machine is
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attached to my neck which will obviously contribute to the sweatiness our special
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guest today if you guys don't already know if you didn't see the YouTube
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announcement is the one and only Yosh from fractal Yos yes Yos well he works
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for a Swedish company but he's not but he's not Swedish no he's about his
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American I just found out he lives in Iowa yeah yeah you just found that out I
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had no idea he was I knew he was somewhere east of here that's not really
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saying a whole lot I KN you live in like that area it's
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it's over there well no I I knew I knew that he was on the continent of North
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America I knew he was south of the 49th parallel and I knew he was east of here
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these are all the things I knew uh at any rate Josh is one of our favorite
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industry Affiliates he's uh he's the
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former CEO and president and whatever he
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wants to call himself of biohazard computers which was a boutique uh system
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builder that actually did some really crazy stuff I mean when we talk about
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Boutique system Builders we're talking paint jobs we we're talking like water
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cooling we're talking like all kinds of cool yeah no Josh was not much crazier
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than that phase change all that kinds of awesome awesome awesome stuff so should
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we jump right into it what do you want to hit first we have so many great
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topics today we can jump um right into the top of the list if you want and talk
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about cellular companies in Canada did you put things in order this week a
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little bit cuz I'll be kind of impressed if you managed to do that it it it has a
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interesting flow where it mixes it up so if people want to see a range of stuff
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give them range of stuff cellular companies in Canada are crying foul
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about the Canadian government facilitating the entry of Verizon
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Wireless into Canada um now this is this
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is actually kind of funny the source for this one or at least where I first saw
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it was from the NC Forum so I guess I
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better give turx over there who I've actually had a number of exchanges with
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over the years he's got like 5,000 posts on there the uh credit for this one and
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I want you guys to watch this video it's not that long Canadians deserve a Level
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Playing Field fair for Canada this is the closest that publicly I've ever seen
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the main Telos here in Canada collaborate so B Rogers and Tellis are
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like this should give some idea how like
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sleeping together they all are because
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it didn't take long to get a nice schmexy looking little we website about
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how it's totally unfair to allow another wireless player in and I just I just
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want you guys to watch this I want to know if you can relate to this tell me
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if the Telos we're going to do a Twitter Blitz after this guys tell me if the
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Telos in your country are this frakin
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brutal hi Michelle kick us off here a
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giant us comp to come to Canada I
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thought will there be thousands of jobs lost think about it experts are saying
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most of their good jobs will stay South of the Border most of to their profits
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too then this us giant gets to use our
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existing infrastructure that took us 25 years to build and they don't contribute
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a scent so Canadian taxpayers will be effectively subsidizing the whole thing
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I believe communities like the montans of Canada should get the same technology
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that the big cities do that way my neighbors can be as productive and as
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plugged in as people in any other part of the country it makes me proud it's a
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very Canadian thing but now our government is allowing a giant us cell
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phone company to buy up small Canadian operators that cell phone companies like
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mine aren't allowed to buy since we can't bid they'll likely even get a huge
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discount on the price effectively at Canadian taxpayers expense but it gets
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better better for them even though this company is four times as big as all of
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Canada's cell phone companies combined they're basically getting a huge
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discount to enter Canada will they care about employment in Canada I think you
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know the answer that's not fair for canadi
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will this giant us company virtually ignore small communities like mine and
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focus on big cities it makes me angry
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that the government is selling us out you know we teach our kids to play fair
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that's about as Canadian as it gets so why is our government giving a giant us
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Corporation special treatment that's not real competition it doesn't sound fair
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for Canadians Ottawa should do something about the loopholes fast it doesn't just
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hurt me oh wow I can't even watch this anymore country holy crap I don't think
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I made it all the way through last time either cuz that thing is two minutes of
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the most inan driil I think I have ever
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seen in my life it's this big old Saab
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story about like Mega Corporation I'm
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sorry there Verizon Wireless is only four times your size and you're kind of
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sitting here going boohoo poor
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me I mean you
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C certain things that I like in there are just things that are completely blatantly wrong where they're like small
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communities should be able to have all the technology that big communities have my grandpa lives in near Winnipeg rural
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Farmland area cannot get anything other
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than like dead slow dialup and there goes my phone again um and like it sucks
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he doesn't want it to be that slow he's an older guy and won't use the internet
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that much but when it takes him a few minutes to load a basic web page and
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when I can't show him anything that we make because on YouTube and that's too
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much for dialup it's kind of messed up
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so that's just blatantly wrong and then the the whole fair play thing fair for
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Canadians it's already not fair for Canadians we pay way too much it's it's
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fair for you jerk it's not fair for us I
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mean the thing that bothers me about this is all you need to know about
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someone's business model and someone's profitability you can you can know
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everything you need to know about a company without even looking at a public
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company's Financial if the local sports arena is called the
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Rogers Arena then Rogers had way too
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much money left on their balance sheet knows they're going to have way too much
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money left on their balance sheet for the foreseeable future and needs a major
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spend that they can just kind of well justify somehow because naming Sports
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Arenas is a terrible terrible terrible Roi and is basically just a way to burn
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money so that it kind of goes away quietly um that should be all you need
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to know about how much of that money could have been spent on the
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infrastructure that would bring oh I don't know highp speed higher speed
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internet connections better cell phone reception more Advanced Technologies
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whatever else the case may be or improving customer service which quite
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frankly out of all of them the ones I've had the best experience with at least on
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the cell phone side has been Bell and Rogers tell us is absolutely terrible
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and speaking to former tus employees the amount of bureaucracy and Bs that goes
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on there do you remember the story I told you the screwdriver Story the screwdriver Story how many people does
10:05
it take to put a piece of RAM in a server at tell us you said I think it
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was four right it was I believe it was three three okay one one well it was the
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one guy who wanted it done who was who was my buddy and then it was someone to
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open the case yeah someone to install the RAM and then was it I thought I
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thought it was one person to slide it out one person to open it one person to put the RAM in one person to CL close it
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one person to close it no no no that was me joking about it but the no the third
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guy had to supervise oh yeah yeah yeah yes so the third guy was a supervisor
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and I'm sitting here going you know what boo Fring who you don't have enough
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money maybe stop wasting it on things like that so let's go to the Twitter
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boards and let you guys uh give us your take on the
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whole how bad would you feel for your
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incumbent Telos if your government basically stepped in and said well hold
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on a second let's try to actually improve the quality of Serv whether the
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Improvement in quality of service is for urban areas and I do understand their
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point where yeah Verizon's going to come in and they're going to go after the
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biggest whack load of customers of course but you know what you guys what
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you could do is you could spend some of the money that you have from your
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current customers because you know what's coming upgrading your infrastructure and accessing the
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customers Verizon can't touch for now
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make it hard for them don't make a whiny
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video be aggressive give us the wireless
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rates we know that you can to clear them
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to clear some things up the auction that they're talking about the unfairness
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that they're talking about is for the 700 MHz Spectrum um new entrance so say
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Verizon are able to bid for two of the four blocks of the new Spectrum they're
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like allowed to bid for two of them and incumbents or current ones are only
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allowed to bid for one each each each group that's already here is only
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allowed to bid on One Verizon would be allowed to bid on two that's what
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they're so mad about and and there and there and their butt hurt because
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they're not allowed to bid because
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that's anti-competitive that we're not allowed to bid what about all the little
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guys that you guys drove under by overbidding for any existing spectrum
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that has been up for auction over the last however many decades it's been
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pretty much impossible it's been impossible for anyone else to get
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involved unless it's mandated by law such as that local cable company Delta
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cable where Shaw is not allowed in that municipality for whatever reason I'm not
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what it is but the reality of it is these are the same things you guys are
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all complainy pants about that you have been doing to other companies for all of
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these years so there you go that's what I have to
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say about it all right Twitter boards been on holiday for a week with
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no phone or Internet hey speaking of things that Telos need to get into the
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uh whatever Century we're in about the fact that you being on holiday why is
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this all glitching out that's kind of weird screen region let's try that again again add screen region uh roaming
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charges if that's not a you know archaic
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thing yeah oh like if that's not a bunch of like
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skevy uh Executives sitting around a
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table sort of behind closed doors
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collaborating and colluding to keep rates as high as they possibly can I
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don't know what is um JK okay you're going to have to message us again when
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Josh is actually on our government does have a fiber initiative which all line
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providers have to be included in New Zealand and it's pushing us
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forward I got no problem with government mandated everyone gets to be involved
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yeah it's pretty much like in the UK all the infrastructure is based on BT they
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own all the lines and dictate everything and that's exactly how it is here the
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guys who own the lines just call the shots and hopefully uh you know
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hopefully the move to wireless Spectrum where instead of it just being like oh
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well you know you collaborated 100 years ago to build these phone lines which has
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absolutely nothing to do with how the world works today therefore you own all
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of it and we can't do anything with wireless at least it can be controlled
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somewhat moving forward and there will be a balancing act I mean it's not like
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if Verizon comes in here and steals all the business they won't which they can't
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because they don't even own enough Spectrum to do it in the first place and it's not like the government's going to
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be like yeah you guys are never allowed to bid on Spectrum ever again it's just
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going to it's going to be Balancing Act in the future and they don't want it no
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they don't want that and I just and I guess the thing that bothers me most
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about it is the three of them are like getting in together to band up about it
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because Verizon might not come in and play their game what I don't like is
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that it's not fair for Canadians it's not fair for Canadians and they're
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saying they're going to take a massive amount of the jobs they will take some
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of the jobs but I guarantee you technicians are still going to need to
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be up here and if technicians still need to be up here offices still need to be
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up here yes there will be jobs up here you're not going to be able to Service
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Canada without employing any Canadians so that's actually not possible for an
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IP anyway so yeah Brad seems to have
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uh the same sort of wow this is kind of weird okay there we go the same sort of
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negative feelings about Australia's Telos Australia does have similar
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challenges to Canada large land mass
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small sort of dense population centers
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um but it still could be better I would be very happy there's no good data plans
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here top speeds are 1 megabit yep bring
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on the competition the Canadian Telos need to man up
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indeed August 9 way to go you you did it
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again and I'm in the mar I say boohoo and I'm in the maritimes
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indeed you're you're brutal dude okay I know this is safe to click on you guys
15:50
are you guys may actually like love this here hold on I'm gonna see if I can find
15:54
one there you go so one of our viewers has acquired a Pikachu uh onesie so go
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ahead and burn him on that as much as you want that's awesome but I think it's
16:05
awesome do you think newer fx8350 is will be worse overclockers now that the
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best chips are being badged as 959s that is actually a very good question we
16:13
should probably talk about that later you want to throw that on the dock while I continue the splitz sound card for
16:19
hd558 anything from ASUS's Zonar line would be a great option you don't
16:23
necessarily need one with a beefy amp because that is not a high impedance
16:27
pair of headphones perhaps they should pull their fingers
16:30
out of their Collective butts I think is the word you were looking for instead of
16:34
complaining like spoiled kids yes indeed
16:39
what are my opinions on the new LG G2 I don't know I asked for an eval unit to
16:43
check out and sort of nothing ever happened so I don't really have much of an opinion I'm looking for a beast card
16:48
to hang any game 780 hard to go wrong
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with 780 however uh one of our topics later on is the rumor that am's Hawaii
16:57
series gpus may be coming soon so stay
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tuned for that uh was that an aperture science water bottle I saw you drinking
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from yes indeed it was hydrogen monoxide
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containment unit I think is the terminology you we're looking for not
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water bottle so there you
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go let's see if we've got anything more little bit more on the Twitter Blitz 4K
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content needs at least 20 megabit per second down I'm all for more competition
17:24
help us get closer to the awesome I want indeed someone says uh refresh xplit and
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what is that blue/green light on the Vengeance box behind
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slick I got no
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idea yeah I don't know all right um
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4570s versus 8350 those are very
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different chips um the 4570s is super
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power efficient and the fx8350 is anything but super not yeah like super
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like power like just super power man like
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like pedal to the metal and efficiency to the winds so I guess decide what you
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want and then bu that what do you think of deleting the chips I think it's kind
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of risky um cool though seriously America has this stuff too Comcast
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pretty much has its own region while Verizon doesn't come into my region it's
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that whole territorial Monopoly things you know what I would love to
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see guys from the states coming up to Canada and sort of pooping all over the
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collusion that's going on here and I'd love to see guys from Canada go down to
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the States and poop all over the collusion there would absolutely love to
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see it because it's needed and I think eventually they're all going to just
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collude with all of each other but at least initially we might see some
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improvements which will maybe get us a little bit caught up in terms of them
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fighting for any amount of time will probably help at least a little bit
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you'll at least be able to sign up for like some kind of ridiculous deal and
18:56
you can try and hold on to in grandfather in Forever
18:59
yes that is the secret I mean went
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honestly okay I'm putting on my uh my my old NCIX hat for a bit when new EG
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launched in Canada like we were pooping
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bricks like leading up to that launch every every day was another
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conversation about sort of you know what are they going to do to to to to to
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address sort of the differences in the Canadian Market because we knew things
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they didn't in fact in fact NC still knows a whole lot of things I can look
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at new eggs offering and I can go yeah they clearly haven't figured this out
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yet about the way business Works in Canada and uh anyway we were we were
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pooping bricks and that was scary and
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when when new egg launched in Canada NCI
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countered with one of the most aggressive sales in its history as a
19:49
company and customers don't always understand how much it costs to put on a
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sale cuz it wasn't Black Friday it wasn't Boxing Day there weren't
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manufacturer rebate that we were able to leverage it was
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just okay well here's all of our money
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just uh here you go customers we I guess we don't need this
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anymore and uh and then new new eggs a
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grand opening sale was pathetic it was like some outdated Phenom was like I
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remember yours the Highlight I took some of that ncx money yeah I bet that was a
20:21
crazy sale I took a lot I think I built two computers for other people out of
20:25
that sale and took some stuff for myself yeah it was not even kidding oh it was
20:28
like bat crap crazy um so I don't remember where I was going with that but
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uh yeah why don't we move on to our next
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topic shall we what do you think we should do next maybe uh maybe a topic
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little while sure uh I like that screen
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one if you want to talk to because we should be getting Josh on here soon yeah
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let's get Josh going soon where is the screen one Amazon working on paper white
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oh okay that's your topic so you better uh on screen you better cover that one
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all right so Amazon's working on a new screen technology this is an article
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from quartz.com qz.com go ahead so
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basically they're going to be putting LEDs horizontally along the panel and
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then it'll bounce light along the whole
21:14
what do they call it a na Nano imprinted light guide it'll bounce it all the way
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across and that will make the light hit the screen and then reflect out towards
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you instead of the light shining directly at you it'll be reflection
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which is more realistic when looking at paper books and it's supposed to be a
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huge Improvement make it a lot better experience for the user much less ey
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strain when you're reading for a long period of time and just yeah it's very
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interesting technology no one else has done it and they're not going to
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compromise on things like color depth and uh resolution or anything like that
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so this is so we're still using a traditional LCD panel actually this is
21:53
something that a lot of people get confused about should I buy an LCD or an
21:58
LED they're the same thing as the back lighting that changes a liquid crystal
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display is is available on a wide
22:06
variety of different forms and it's the most common flat panel display type
22:11
anything from your old calculator us as an LCD display it's monochrome it has no
22:16
backlight backlight about to talk about that in a moment anything up to even
22:20
sort of even the LCDs you might find in a rear projection TV a while ago back
22:25
when the larger LCD panels were too expensive to manufacture so they would
22:28
make small ones and then blow a massive backlight through them to project onto a
22:33
screen or something like an LCD panel that you might find at your typical
22:37
computer which would typically have cold cathode lights behind it fluorescent
22:42
lighting and now has moved to LED so the LCD panel itself is an image that
22:48
doesn't inherently emit any light that's where OLED is different because it emits
22:52
its own light you have to put some kind of a light source behind it so in this
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way they're not actually putting it necessarily it's they can use that same
23:03
LCD panel Tech to to reflect light instead of shine light out from behind
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it so so it's it's supposed to make it a much better experience it's called light
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guide they're called well the the technolog is called light guide their screen is going to be called paper white
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and Amazon has recently uh acquired a
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like kind of a a company that's working on tablets so people are thinking that
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instead of just making e-readers Amazon is going to take this Tech and make a
23:29
tablet and there's a lot behind this and it's in this um in this quartz web page
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which will be on the doc which we will upload with the live stream later on
23:39
fascinating so Amazon is realizing that e-readers have gone down I think it's
23:43
like 12% in the past little while it's so dead like oh come on so so Amazon is
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trying to respond to that by making a tablet which has gone up I think it's
23:53
like 78% in the last year or something like that oh yeah it's ludicrous I was
23:56
looking at did uh did diesel send the same article that was looking at I think
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smartphone shipments and tablet shipments oh it's ridiculous yeah it's
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like you're kind of looking at the numbers going like like how many how
24:08
many hundreds of millions of them does everyone not have one yet at this point
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then um but there you go evidently not
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um this actually ties into one of our other news articles which is maybe the
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last one we'll do before we get Josh to join us um and that is the rumor that
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Amazon is working on a game console so
24:27
an Android based game console I don't this isn't in the dock I don't know if you know about this not in the dock at
24:31
all yeah I know whatever man um so it's going to be so it would go head-to-head
24:36
with something like the Ouya which I think everyone's kind of in agreement on
24:41
was kind of a failure um the like things
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have changed since it got released and they've made improvements but it's still
24:47
and this is the danger of kickstarting something based on specs that are
24:53
current and then how long it takes to really bring a product to Market I mean
24:56
something like NVIDIA Shield if NVIDIA were to wait like if they had
25:01
two business units internally Tegra and
25:04
shield and shield wasn't allowed to touch Tegra technology until it was
25:09
released publicly Shield would be months
25:13
away yeah because it takes so long to
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bring an actual finished product to Market that's why someone like Ouya
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never stood a chance because they're going to be working with off-the-shelf
25:24
components rather than working with what's coming next um so Ouya is sort of
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a bad example cuz I think it just never really stood a chance but with someone
25:34
with the clout of Amazon banking on this
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whole Android console thing with someone with the clout of NVIDIA banking on this
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whole Android console concept thing with Shield which by the way our Shield is
25:47
coming coming on the way I haven't seen tracking yet but it's like confir the
25:52
way yeah this is this is interesting because more game developers are going
25:55
to come back on this because there's Shield people are going to want to
25:58
making games for Android because of shield and then when Amazon steps behind
26:03
something like this people are going to be want to making want to be making Android games because of Amazon's
26:07
console so one of the problems with Ura is everyone went emulators and then kind
26:11
of stopped because everyone just wanted emulators now people are going to be
26:16
actually interested in developing games for this platform which is really
26:19
important and of course for those of you who are going to sort of attack him
26:23
immediately for this of course developers were already interested in Android games but they were interested
26:27
in touch Android games that were meant to be played on ablet and a phone now
26:32
Android is moving forward to what someone like NVIDIA has been trying to
26:37
get towards since the first Tegra which
26:41
is we want console graphics on this thing because we ultimately and like
26:46
this is the scare this is the scariest part of it is like how how upset is
26:51
NVIDIA that AMD has every design win in the nextg console maybe not at all cuz
26:56
they're going for because the nextg console is going to be a 10-year device
27:00
you look at how quickly NVIDIA is ramping up the power or not just NVIDIA
27:04
I mean I'm I'm harping on NVIDIA because they're kind of in the thick of all this
27:08
but you look at how quickly the GPU power on these mobile devices is ramping
27:12
up we could be looking at another few years because we've already pretty much
27:16
caught up with Tegra 4 we've caught up to current gen console few more years
27:21
especially with yearly iterations we could have caught up to the next gen
27:24
consoles and with a device that doesn't have to have a connect play into it and
27:29
doesn't have to hook up to your TV and doesn't have to do whatever you don't
27:32
care about and maybe doesn't have the same DRM restrictions that you can rude
27:36
and you can really get into and you'll probably be able to record more easily
27:39
and all this other kind of stuff is the console dead that's actually a really
27:43
interesting statement and possible but we won't know for years but we won't
27:47
know for a few years maybe maybe guys like Microsoft are too hard to take down
27:53
I don't know mof are pretty big they're pretty
27:57
big but they're falling pretty hard pretty fast maybe that's why Microsoft
28:01
is banking on things that aren't necessarily gaming man maybe that's it
28:05
football all this other kind stuff TV convince me Android can't handle things
28:09
that aren't gaming is Seuss Cube anyone I I'm not fighting this battle you know
28:15
uh Google Chromecast anyone like a gen
28:19
five of that thing this going be incredible it's already incredible with
28:23
a Tegra a in it that like I don't know
28:26
anyway good good luck good luck PS P4 good luck Xbox one was nice knowing you
28:31
um why don't we go ahead and fire upcs here and see if Josh fractal has managed
28:36
to uh manage to get his headset figured
28:39
out did you manage to do a test call with him or oh boy I was I was zoned out
28:42
working on the dock when he first got it installed and then I went to invite him
28:46
and he had he had left at that point that was my bad all right you know what
28:49
we should just like take a uh oh ah Josh fractal online all right well here why
28:54
don't I let you kind of talk about that while I do a Twitter Blitz here and sure
28:58
of course they're on the same computer so that uhy oh wow wow shots shots fired
29:05
already this this this guy is hard to uh
29:09
it's kind of hard to deal with having him on our live stream here see if I can
29:14
uh see if I can get this to actually work I'm not that impressed with xsplit
29:18
today I don't know what's uh I don't know what's going on here but this is
29:22
this is some uh this is some serious business nonsense that is making my
29:28
difficult here so we're going to go ahead and recapture that screen region
29:32
that I've already captured a couple times and apparently oh that's weird
29:37
Razer comms does not get picked up by
29:41
xplit which actually makes
29:44
sense because a game streamer who's
29:47
using comms for voice communication wouldn't want their bloody xplit or
29:51
their uh their com stuff all over the place all right well at any rate
29:56
um let's go ahead and fire this fire
29:59
this baby up all right Josh so just click the
30:04
headset button in the top leftand corner there you go yo Josh how it goes bro oh
30:10
it's going how you doing pretty good I
30:14
noticed that you uh jacked up my style with your uh your guest picture
30:22
here and Josh is listening to the stream
30:25
not to razor com so he needs to go ahead and turn off his stream so he can talk
30:30
to us already did
30:33
man so you think I jacked your style you
30:37
hardcore jacked my style I was the first one to do a picture like this obviously
30:42
yeah except for Steve Jobs yeah except well except for that guy but I mean what
30:46
did he ever do that was he probably wasn't the first one to do it
30:50
anyway well yeah you never know but I mean he made it popular and sexy I mean
30:54
and he probably trademarked it so we're both going to get sued yeah yeah I
30:58
actually did worry about that like I wondered if it was okay for me to take a
31:02
picture of myself being all like glasses and maybe like the particular finger
31:06
orientation made it a curve design that they could patent yeah I think your
31:11
pinch zooming your chin in that one I'm not quite sure
31:14
though so how are you how's uh how's
31:17
fractal how's business how's the PC industry and how is it um do you cry
31:23
yourself to sleep at night because you don't still run your own company
31:26
biohazard I think it was called oh man we're starting Quick aren't we um first
31:31
of all I guess I'd like to be the cool one and say happy birthday to fatal flux
31:35
they've been posting over there in the comments so can you guys give him a shout out for me real quick shout out
31:40
happy birthday see there we go um no
31:43
work work has been good work has been busy uh you know obviously got back from
31:47
computex where we partied it out for a little while um I mean worked very hard
31:52
and then you know we got uh oh man it's
31:56
just if it's not one thing it's another but it's going good it's good it's good
32:00
yeah you guys have done some land present re presents recently oh so for
32:03
those of you who don't know this is Josh from fractal design formerly of
32:08
biohazard computers he is an Enthusiast
32:12
at heart this guy has done more hardcore stuff with PCS than I have done that is
32:18
for certain and he works as the what's your title like um lap dog to the
32:24
president of fractal or something like that North America well it was going to
32:28
just taller than lonus but that didn't really narrow it down at all I mean
32:31
that's a pretty broad category so yeah VP of marketing for North
32:36
America that that would be my official title all right so do you want to talk
32:41
fractal stuff first or do you want to just kind of jump into some of the uh I
32:45
know there was that one topic that you were chomping at the bit to talk to us
32:49
about do you want to get right into that yeah it just depends do you have a 7-second
32:53
delay you might want that wait what 7c DeLay So that you can
32:59
bleep out swear words geez come on oh
33:02
man no let's let's just let's just let's just do this thing all right so this I I
33:08
I sent this to Josh and I got back an email at like what is that like 4 in the
33:13
morning your time yeah it was about 4 in the morning yeah which was uh yeah oh
33:18
that's perfect sorry I'm so excited now
33:21
slick wasn't cced on the email so here we go there's an indie go go on that is
33:27
have must be the stupidest thing that I've ever seen on the internet this
33:31
video thumbnail right here should probably tell you pretty much everything
33:35
you need to know about this Indiegogo which is basically like two nerds and
33:41
guys you know no disrespect or anything but you're two nerds sitting on chairs
33:47
in the middle of a yard and I'm just going to skim through a little bit of
33:51
this Indiegogo and then we are just going to blast this thing between me
33:56
Josh and slick I don't think they're going to have any anus
34:01
left careful wording
34:05
man let me see if I have this written down right you guys have a 3.8 GHz
34:10
overclocked 6 core i7 processor 6 GB
34:14
video card 32 GB of RAM all booting from
34:18
a solid state drive I mean this would normally retail from about 34,000 if you
34:23
could even find it but you if you could find it oh man I got I'm starting early
34:28
here originally we were going to go cheaper than that some of the big
34:31
manufacturers are hard to deal with ,000 I'm fting back the rage right now the
34:35
machine we wanted to build so don't you think this could lead to awkward
34:39
conversations with Big Industry producers I mean you're undercutting their prices quite a bit awkward
34:44
conversations like how overpriced their computers are we're okay with that
34:49
conversation right well then I'm just trying to make sure you guys aren't
34:52
getting in over your head I mean there's a lot of big dogs out there I think
34:56
we've made our purpose clear right if this project gets off the
35:01
ground then we've essentially declared war on all companies that make gaming
35:05
computers and we're okay with that unlike most wars where it's a win lose
35:10
we're totally okay with either outcome on one hand we make super awesome
35:14
computers specifically for Gamers on the other hand we force the big comp to BR
35:18
pric down anyway so basically the summary guys is that these guys have an
35:23
Indiegogo actually here I'm going to go back to the Indiegogo so they've
35:26
actually got 4,000 contributors they're
35:29
basically saying that no no no they they have $4,000 $4,000 worth of
35:34
contributions they have 12 contributors so there's a comparison Matrix down here
35:38
that has alien wear and what they charge for a system and build it yourself and
35:42
what it costs and their innovision gaming which has a 3970x 32 gigs of RAM
35:47
a 7990 a 512 gig SSD and a final price
35:51
of $11,000 I don't know if they're deluded
35:58
or if they're just scammers one thing
36:01
I've wondered is I'm giving them as much insane degree of benefit of the doubt
36:05
that I can possibly imagine is that they have found someone online that is
36:09
claiming to be a distributor of these things and is claiming if you buy enough
36:14
and pay us up front we will give you all of this for this price so they decided
36:18
to make an Indiegogo planning to do it without enough research figure out that
36:21
this person is this camera tell me Josh as a a boutique gaming system builder
36:27
who you know really you know wasn't well
36:31
okay okay two things two things tell me this
36:35
Josh how much margin did you make selling gaming
36:39
PCs oh hell like 4,000% 4,000% because I
36:44
touched it I mean I had a picture of me on the side of it which that I mean right there that's just a bonus you know
36:49
it's a work of art but yeah the thing is
36:53
like you had to figure you know I was definitely a cayen boutique so our stuff
36:57
was you know very expensive our average box was like 8 to 12K so we had sizable
37:03
sizable margin and we were still at
37:06
like 30 40% like above Hardware but you also got
37:11
to realize when you're going into that level of Boutique the amount of work that goes into your overclocking at your
37:15
stress testing it it's like that's you know the labor comes into it yes so and
37:21
like so hold on I'm not talking gross margins I want to hear net margins after
37:25
you pay yourself labor which probably isn't for that great of a
37:30
salary oh I obviously it's worth so much more that's why I moved on to modeling
37:35
but you know after that dried up I came back to Tech you know so I would say you
37:40
know at the end of the day the problem was too is you know I I own the company
37:43
so I sted myself right so I was probably maybe between 10 and 15% 10 and 15%
37:50
sounds about right which is not big margin and that's a boutique so to put
37:55
that in perspective someone like an NC might be making about half of that so
37:59
for those of you watching right now who think there's like massive margin in
38:04
gaming computers there is but it isn't at the retailer level it isn't at the
38:09
distributor level and it's not at the system builder level it is at the
38:13
manufacturing level guys like ASUS guys
38:17
like Intel these are public companies all you have to do is look at their
38:21
financials you know how much they're making on it that means that if
38:25
something costs $1,000 to end user and
38:30
we know that the distributor price for it is you know
38:36
$950 the the retailer and the distributor didn't make that much on it
38:39
so Josh tell me this when you were a boutique Builder building systems that
38:44
might have cost thousands of dollars if you could even find them um how much did
38:50
it cost you to buy an extreme Edition uh let's see here uh it was
38:55
pretty straightforward because Intel locks their price pricing it per thousand unit orders right I mean it's
38:59
like the way that breaks down is like when a you know extreme Edition came out
39:03
back then you know they like thousand bucks and it's like you know
39:06
999 99 yeah and it was like that's per
39:10
thousand CPUs and I think people have this unrealistic view of you know how
39:15
much business a lot of system Builders are doing it's like a huge Boutique
39:18
system builder maybe doing like between
39:21
two and 400 systems a month you know and
39:24
it always killed me it's like people think you're getting like all this hard for dirt cheap and we'd always get these
39:29
things like uh I want an extreme Edition I want this I want that and I want this
39:33
but I want it for like half a retail because I know you guys get it cheap I'm like you know more than I do man because
39:38
certainly not getting it cheap and that's why we went that route is like to
39:41
make any margin on it you know you had to put some sort of spin on it you had
39:46
to do like overclocking liquid cooling stuff like that that people weren't
39:49
doing and you know people wonder oh how come there's always bloat wear and
39:53
crapware on PCS uh that's where Dell and HP and the big guys made all the money
39:57
that was all subsidized like they were selling half the time the hardware nearly at a loss making up the money on
40:03
like you know saman kicking them 20 bucks perst or shipping or the other
40:09
little things that they could do that really helped that or you know even
40:12
things like office trials that ship on your computer as enthusiasts we kind of
40:17
look at that and we go as if I'm going to activate it but someone like my
40:21
mother might actually do that and that's where the margin on that PC through an
40:25
affiliate code of all things like even someone like Acer has to make money
40:29
through like an affiliate program for Microsoft Office on the computer that
40:33
they shipped you yeah well it just it
40:36
drives me nuts that you're like so these guys are obviously Bladen idiots I mean
40:42
it's either so first of all let let's just start poking holes in this I don't
40:45
even know where to start because there's so much crap it's insane like okay first
40:49
of all you know we found if we buy in bulk we save gee that's a unique
40:54
business model that I don't know Walmart and everybody else had since the
40:57
beginning of time yeah I bet Newegg Newegg never figured that out about
41:02
buying in bulk and getting processors for cheaper yeah exactly it's like oh
41:06
I'm glad you guys cracked this one and no one else has been able to figure it out and then second of all it's like we
41:11
started looking we got these contacts in the industry it's like oh that inside
41:15
track that you developed after a week and a half on CS list you know I don't
41:18
know exactly where they think they got all this information and then the other
41:22
thing is it's like if we can crowdfund this if we can all order these
41:25
motherboards and these video cards it's like okay what motherboard am I getting
41:29
you know it's like you know okay what chipset what manufacturer I think that's
41:35
the least of the holes in this it's a big hole though but yeah I agree yeah
41:40
like what is it so okay like another reason why you know any system builder
41:44
has to make margin on it's like who's going to support the damn thing you know
41:48
it looks to me I'm G to give them the benefit of the bo the benefit of the
41:53
doubt I think that they're not scammers I think that they're
41:57
and what they think is that if they get
42:02
because look they're asking for a half a million doll goal and their campaign
42:08
only receive funds receives funds if they reach it by the deadline so it's
42:12
not one of those blatant scam ones where they're like yeah we're going to keep
42:15
the money regardless so I think that they naively think that if they manag to
42:22
put together 500 systems as a single order
42:27
that they'll be able to go to someone like Intel or EVGA or ASUS or whoever
42:33
else and say hey we're Big Shots drop
42:36
your pants in terms of pricing for us and uh you know $1,000 is our budget and
42:41
that's a lot of money because we're 15 and or however old they are and we think
42:46
whatever they think that $1,000 is a lot of money um and they they think that
42:51
they can achieve it that way and it's just not going to work Josh has built systems for people on an insane level
42:56
you've built system for people I've built systems for people none of us made
43:00
a ton of money off it the first thing that I say anytime someone posts on the
43:04
Forum that their plan is to start a business selling systems is do it for
43:09
fun it better be a side job and it better be entertaining yes I mean you
43:13
know the the overhead in it is ridiculous I mean aside from you know
43:17
just the standard business model it's like keeping up with high-end Hardware I
43:21
mean you know working in front of the curve is you know ridiculously time
43:26
consuming and yeah you know by the time like you know the extreme Edition drops
43:29
if you're one of the high-end guys it's like you're already working on the next
43:33
thing you know it's like by the time it actually comes to Market you're like okay that's old and you know I have to
43:37
agree I don't think these guys are scammers merely because a scam would be
43:42
put together a lot better than this I mean this is like so bad it's got to be
43:47
you know blatantly real like they genuinely think that they've stumbled
43:50
across something and that they're going to be able to help people out it's like
43:54
you know a scam would be more believable
43:58
I think that's how a scam works you know I I wonder about the four people who
44:03
have evidently bought it and they've got a lot of perks at different levels that
44:07
I'm also looking at going like are you guys bloody insane $25 for 256 gig USB
44:14
drive 250 bucks for $79.90 that was the
44:17
main one that got me yeah it's like okay on what planet when are you planning to
44:21
ship these systems like if they're planning to ship the system in 2016 and
44:26
they're just going to like eBay okay they're planning to ship them in October
44:29
but if the plan was to like troll eBay 2 years from now and dig up like you know
44:35
old extreme editions and stuff this might be doable well here's the thing if
44:39
they got all the parts right now two guys it would take them till October to build 500 system I mean do they ever
44:44
think about that it's like oh we're going to have to hire some people to build all these by October from watching
44:48
the video I think it's only the dude on the right who's building all of them
44:52
actually oh yeah the other gu the brains behind it there we go that's a solid
44:56
that's a solid 500 systems I can tell
44:59
you right now based on sort of an industry standard 2 to 3% defective rate
45:05
on any component within the first month they are going to get back so it
45:09
compounds right because you're building a system so let's say a system has eight
45:13
components in it for the sake of argument that means that the chances of
45:17
a system going defective within 30 days
45:21
unless they're burning them in I mean what about the power that it's going to
45:24
consume to burn in all these systems they're building 500 systems at the same
45:27
time anyway the uh the chance that one of them will be defective within 30 days
45:32
is probably at least 3 to 5% if they're
45:37
lucky as an inexperienced Builder never mind the ones that get damaged in
45:40
shipping tell me Josh how much do rmas
45:43
cost you as a system builder oh yeah well that's the thing you know it's
45:47
ridiculously expensive because say you sell the whole system you know the first
45:51
thing is it's like I think my video card di okay we'll send you new video card I
45:54
don't know how to fix it they want to send the whole system back so you know
45:58
assuming you can Sid step that it's the
46:01
other thing is if they're working with highend Hardware we had our largest failure rates on Enthusiast class
46:06
Hardware of course you because it's it's pushed so high you know and you would
46:10
think which they're probably thinking from a general mindset like oh this
46:13
video card it costs three times as much as a mainstream one it's going to be
46:16
perfect it's like no it's probably gonna be flaky you know and and if you're
46:20
going to take all these you're going to overclock them okay add to that that's the other thing you know you're looking
46:24
at your failure rate I assume these guys are going to get in try and overclock
46:28
because they'll read on that on some Forum somewhere hey I can do that all
46:31
you do is push the voltage as high as it goes and then just crank up the multiply
46:38
yeah ah yeah yeah I could rage on this
46:42
all night but you know if you want to move on I totally understand I just saw it and I was like really really this is
46:48
and the scariest thing is that they've got backers already like oh I know is it
46:53
like their mom's I'm hoping so I'm hoping so could be considering the money
46:58
will get back if they don't get it funded it definitely could be another
47:01
thing is I think okay the guy on the right I watched the video I didn't pay
47:05
way too much attention but the guy on the right I believe is the technical guy and the guy on the left I believe is the
47:09
business guy the guy on the left should be fired unfortunately the guy on the
47:13
left is going to have a really hard time finding a job if anyone Googles this
47:17
because his name is attached all over it and the guy on the right is going to
47:20
have a really time hard time finding a job because I believe his name is attached to this as well so if they try
47:25
to look for a job in 22 days from now when this fails it's going to be rough
47:30
if anyone Googles their names I think it I think you're giving them too much
47:33
credit for the size and momentum of this project I don't think anyone will ever
47:38
find it my thing is I thought it was I
47:42
it was better without the video like I watched the video and it got worse like
47:46
oh my God I see what you're trying to do but oh just fail left and right I should
47:52
tell them if they want to do a better pitch video next time they should reach
47:55
out to lonus Media Group and uh we should just just for laws we should just
48:00
produce the stupidest possible P you know what that would be kind of a fun
48:03
project like Indiegogo pitch video like
48:07
fake sort of thing I don't know if that's been overdone yet we kind of sort
48:11
of did it but not for jokes and not and
48:14
it wasn't fake but for um the the
48:18
kickstarter one that we did we did a Kickstarter ah it got no we didn't do
48:22
get any of the money we did a video that got posted on Kickstarter for that thing
48:26
where name Omni Omni trick om that got posted
48:30
on their Kart and it worked really well so I don't know okay so anyway there you
48:34
go you know what why don't we move into something else I'd like to do one topic
48:38
and in the meantime guys hit us on Twitter at liniste and let us know what
48:44
questions or comments you have for Josh remember former Boutique system builder
48:49
current VP of marketing at fractal design for North America always awesome
48:54
I'm sorry what and I'm always awesome and always awesome
48:57
and you're right I Googled his name and nothing came up yeah that that was that
49:02
was not going to be a thing um all right so Josh speaking of staying on the sort
49:07
of bleeding edge of CPU technology and all that crazy stuff here's an article
49:12
from wccf Tech I mean these guys I don't
49:17
well The credibility is sort of I mean they had an article about I think it was
49:21
like 12 or 16 core fxs not that long ago
49:25
and now there's one about how they're possibly abandoning FX processors apus
49:31
all the way what's your take on
49:35
this oh you know I don't know I mean it
49:39
gets to a point almost uh you know with
49:43
the big guys that you believe anything I mean things have gone back and forth so
49:47
much you know I know Apu is definitely a focus for AMD right now as far as like
49:52
abandoning FX I I don't see it being that drastic I
49:57
if if you look at the benchmarks you look at like a lot of the forums you would think that AMD is completely
50:02
screwed because they don't win all the benchmarks but like when you look at you
50:05
know the buying public like hey that's a cheap processor I'll get that for my
50:09
next build that'll do what I needed to do if I'm going to build you know my
50:13
mother an internet and email machine it's like okay fine yeah I'm gonna go
50:17
for that and I think that's and it's called the Xbox one yeah yeah exactly so
50:22
yeah I I don't know I don't put a lot of stock in it I mean it's that's the other
50:27
thing okay like what are the odds that website would have to scoop if that's what was really happening um you know
50:32
what I'm going to play devil's advocate here and I'm going to say I think they're right because they've been
50:37
falling behind I mean performance per watt opteron walked in and destroyed
50:43
everything AMD owned Fabs at the time they owned the technology they had some
50:48
serious business you I don't know if you want to
50:51
call it planning or luck or whatever word you want to use but Intel was basic
50:56
basically sitting on their butts and AMD came in and whooped their butts in the
50:59
server space trickled that technology down to the desktop and kick some butt
51:05
for a little while now they haven't done that in a
51:09
long time AMD is more focused on that
51:14
mainstream consumer and you look at what they see as the definition of an APU
51:20
according to AMD core I3 Core i5 and core i7
51:24
processors from Intel that onboard HD graphics are apus yeah so you look at
51:31
Intel where they still have dominance when it comes to zeeon when it comes to
51:37
extreme Edition when it comes to workstation grade processors they still
51:41
have dominance there and they're barely paying any attention to it for AMD is
51:46
the overhead just too much at this point to even bother are they better off to
51:51
just focus on the uh heterogeneous CPU
51:55
AR or like guess I can't call it a CPU any but a heterogeneous architecture
51:59
that uses a CPU and a graphics type of
52:04
processing in order to achieve what it needs to do and are they right to bank
52:09
on that in the future because is it possible that a
52:12
quadcore CPU with a very powerful
52:16
graphics processor on it would actually be able to outperform a more traditional
52:21
six core or 8 core CPU in the tasks that we need I mean
52:26
diesel the intern was complaining to me the other day that his workstation
52:30
doesn't support quicksync because now that technology that uses Intel's
52:34
onboard HD graphics to accelerate video encoding is starting to show up in the
52:39
professional tools and I'm like I thought I built you the beasted machine
52:44
with a six Core Extreme Edition and all this RAM and a Quadro and you want a
52:48
fraking consumer grade device because we're moving towards that being more
52:52
practical for the future and it it it makes sense and to be honest with them
52:57
starting to rake in money on the console side especially in the next upcoming
53:00
months and still bleeding money they they released a statement
53:05
recently about how they're going to be profitable soon yes they said next quarter maybe dropping certain segments
53:11
will help them be profitable soon well you know I think that part of it comes
53:14
into the fact that like certain product wings are just marketing Wings you know
53:19
I mean you look at Halo cards and stuff like that when you're looking at
53:23
Graphics it's like you know NVIDIA is not making their Bank on Titans in 780s
53:28
it's amazing how many consumers think they are but man guys they're not it
53:32
costs five times as much as a consumer grade card or you know a performance
53:36
card it's like yeah and you sell about what 5% of what you sell on the
53:40
mainstream so I think five% is very aggressive Prett aggressive yeah and and
53:45
and the thing is like so if you're going into like the nuclear arms race of
53:49
Graphics it makes sense because if you win that top rung then you get every rung below it so it's more of a
53:53
marketing investment than anything else and and when you look at largely what
53:59
the bread and butter what AMD probably sells right now yeah it it could make
54:03
sense to to I guess you know kill off the FX brand if they want to move more
54:07
towards an APU because it's also about application right I mean it's like if
54:11
you say what has a faster zero to 60 you know a Ferrari or Ford F-150 everyone's
54:16
going to say Ferrari it's like okay now do the same thing on a muddy road which
54:19
one has it faster 060 so it's all about how you're tasking it like you said with
54:24
diesel working with video it's like okay that might have more raw processing
54:28
power but for what I use it for this works better for me y yep although I'm
54:33
trying to get away with throwing a Kepler GPU in his system because he's
54:36
found a really cool plugin for Premier that uses Cuda to accelerate uh
54:41
outputting h264 using the onboard encoder but you know what he wants right
54:45
he wants a Titan doesn't he and he wants both he wants a qu and a Titan because
54:50
he diesel are you still here oh no he's not here today he can
54:55
use one for one thing and the other for the other thing he wants two graphics
54:59
cards no if he could do it no I don't
55:03
even care he's not getting two Titans in his workstation no he doesn't want two
55:06
Titans oh I know he wants qu yeah he
55:09
wants the quadro because he wants 10 bit color and then he wants the Titan for
55:14
Cuda he's not getting the Titan he can have like a 770 or something reason
55:19
you're so cheap you're so I know I'm like the worst person ever oh freaking
55:24
employees it's like why do I even need them someone's got to make you look good
55:29
someone's got to produce content while emails all right let's do a Twitter
55:33
Blitz here guys for Yosh uh we're gonna
55:37
focus on the questions for Yos um look
55:40
at that you an AR mid too it must be because of that pre-roll advertising
55:44
you're running online as Tech tips videos uh no it' probably be something
55:48
effective that we're doing all right so gregar says going for
55:54
the arc midar 2 air cooling bill should I go for af140 fans instead of the stock
55:59
fans great question Josh go go for
56:03
whatever you want I mean it comes down to again however you're going to use it
56:07
I mean to think that we can make one fan
56:10
that would be perfect for every solution I you could try uh you know obviously we
56:15
always have a aim towards silence and that's where a lot of our fans have come
56:20
from so if you're going for something a little bit more high-end if you want to
56:24
do what you want to do I mean that's my biggest thing I'm not going to try and
56:28
push into somebody into something I don't want all right fair enough and you guys
56:33
all know what I'll say buy all the Noctua nff 12s because I truly believe
56:37
it is the one- siiz fitall and that's why I stopped talking because I figured
56:41
you'd just chime in with that anyway so all right uh that's that same
56:46
question again will there be a successor to the core 1000 actually a case that I
56:51
personally really liked I unboxed it a long time ago and I was quite impressed
56:57
by the Innovative cost Savings of moving
57:00
the hard drive mounting to a single slab of metal as opposed to building a
57:04
complicated cage while offering other
57:08
advantages such as improved air flow through the front because you got your
57:11
freaking Drive cage out of the way and the fact that it still holds enough
57:14
Hardware are we going to see anything else like that yeah okay so then now I have to do
57:20
the typical disclaimer that they cannot talk about products that may or may not
57:24
be released in the near future blah blah blah but yeah if you look at the rest of
57:27
our product line I think you can kind of see what we tend to do I mean we take
57:31
you know we design our cases we take feedback from our customers and from our
57:34
fans and you know we help we use that to
57:38
help us build new products because I mean obviously that's who we're designing this stuff for at the end of
57:41
the day so I would say I wouldn't be
57:45
surprised at all if you saw something like that as far as time frame no I
57:49
don't know have I seen anything internally no I have not okay but the
57:52
core 1000's been incredibly popular for us and it makes you look tall so I mean
57:57
we got to keep it around for while thanks I mean the thing about the core 1000 is keeping it within that price
58:03
range I don't know how much really could be
58:07
improved we I mean you do get some of that right I mean it's like oh we could
58:11
add this we could add that the next thing you know it's like the core 1000
58:14
at $69.99 it's like okay that kind of just went the opposite direction of
58:18
where that case was at so and functionality wise I mean it it works
58:23
very well especially in its intended market so well you guys have so much
58:27
margin anyway that you should be able to sell core 1000s for 20 $20 or you know
58:32
$6.99 anyway so you know according to those yahoos on that yeah we we got a
58:37
lead on some guys that we're going to buy 500 of them so we just shifted all
58:41
of our pricing towards them should work out for both of us oh
58:45
terrible um lineus Tech and Josh do you think there will be an all-in-one
58:50
Boutique system made custom for some rich people I'm going to let you go
58:55
first an
58:58
allinone um yeah so when it comes back to the
59:03
boutique side of things you know I guess what I was when I was doing it was like
59:08
a cross between like a boutique and a modder you know because people back in
59:12
the day you know like when you were
59:16
young yeah exactly you know when you were making cases out of stone um it's
59:21
like people didn't come in the motherboard Trail like we had to do that
59:24
ourselves you know and walk up hillbo ways and all that sort of crap but I
59:27
mean legitimately it's like there weren't a whole lot of features like
59:31
that so you tried to tailored as much as
59:35
you could to your intended audience um
59:39
Allin ones get a little tricky though I mean there it's I don't know it's a very
59:44
difficult form factor to deal with it's very difficult
59:48
to basically the investment that goes
59:51
into designing an all-in-one necessitates that you sell a buttload of
59:56
them and yeah you basically you not got a proprietary design it's like why don't
60:00
you just design your own laptop is about where it's at pretty much so unless like
60:05
Steve wnc decides to build one like for
60:08
himself I I don't think it's likely to happen now I did see a Gigabyte
60:13
Prototype at I think it was computex CES
60:16
CES maybe it was at CES that was an all-in-one that allowed um aftermarket
60:21
graphics card upgrades with like standard PCI Express graphics cards they
60:25
had like a 580 or something stupid in it at the time and I was like who that's
60:29
kind of crazy um but other than that I haven't really seen much and I really
60:32
don't think anything like that will ever be wildly
60:37
successful yeah plus I mean the people are going to pay that amount of money
60:41
for something custom aren't at least in my experience when we were doing it they
60:45
weren't so much concerned about the form factor it was more here's what I wanted
60:49
to do or I want to trick it out and have
60:52
this custom paint job on it I want to have more of like a look to it but not
60:56
so much a form factor all right here we go Josh what did you major in in
61:02
college oh let's see here did I go to college other than modeling other than
61:08
modeling I'm major in that every day I mean I wake up first thing I do is I
61:13
mean well I'm awesome when I get out of bed I'm awesome when I go into bed yeah
61:16
pretty much awesome all day now in college believe it or not um and if you
61:20
watch the first live stream I on you got a little bit of hint at this I actually majored in criminology and criminal
61:25
justice and then I kind of accidentally pepper sprayed a bunch of
61:30
people which actually was was kind of related to my major so so that's all
61:36
good that's like me saying that I like
61:40
broke my mom's laptop and that's somehow related to my job you don't have a job
61:46
man I mean you just kind of sit there and then like you get all pouty when
61:49
someone argues with you and then you change the
61:53
subject I think we're going to move on to actually
61:56
I think time's up with our guest hey I have a job my job is
62:02
difficult reaching stuff on the top
62:06
shelf
62:09
wow oh I didn't hear your feelings today and he goes to live stream Doc and he
62:14
searches for a new dog let me pick something that dummy Josh doesn't know
62:18
anything about um what do you think of
62:22
veridium usage in um last for
62:31
ponies I don't want to talk anymore
62:34
he'll find oh oh slick you got to give it to me if I got lonus to be quiet! that
62:38
is like an epic Achi that's actually that is quite impressive we should
62:42
probably have a separate like lower third animation that like can put a
62:45
little crown on him that's like achievement unlocked do I get a badge
62:49
badge on the Forum oh silenced Linus and
62:53
it can be like one of the like the silence icons from video game like was
62:57
actually able to silence lonus badge award Forum we're actually going to be
63:01
adding Awards on our Forum speaking of me not having they're done they're
63:04
mostly done oh good work well it was uh
63:07
call out of windspeed I installed it he distributed which was a huge job so
63:12
thank you w speaking of fist bumps
63:15
EA is apparently getting sued for
63:18
shutting down the servers for games that they're not really running anymore so
63:23
this was posted on the Forum by ich chondo and the article is from Tech dirt
63:27
and basically what's happening is Justin
63:33
Basset claims he bought several sports themed games for Xbox 360 for about
63:38
$59.99 each relying on Electronic Arts representation that the games were
63:43
enabled for unlimited online play but the games were available for only a
63:47
limited time he says had the plaintiff known at the time he would not be able
63:51
to play the products online for a certain amount of time he would not have purchased the products or paid the price
63:55
he paid for the
63:58
products whose side are we on here
64:02
should they have to run servers forever should they not un Unlimited No not
64:08
necessarily unlimited but the amount of time that EA does run servers is not
64:12
very acceptable because it's a such incredibly short amount of time now that
64:17
this document didn't actually State anywhere specifically on it unless it's
64:21
in the huge 24 page something or other legal document one page might be
64:27
somewhere there exactly how long the particular games that he talking abouted
64:31
but it is very very short period of time what he's asking for I believe is a
64:34
minimum of 3 years which is not a lot to
64:37
ask for a game Halo Halo 1 was like quite a or
64:43
Halo 2 sorry it was quite a while like quite a long time and NES was supported
64:49
for 24 years like that's too much to ask
64:52
in my opinion you shouldn't ask for 24 years but you should also be able to ask
64:56
for more than one or two years and I think what they were also asking is that
65:01
EA should disclose what the window is
65:04
you can't say unlimited if it's going to be a year or two Josh what do you think
65:08
the solution is here yeah good question right I mean I do see both sides of it
65:12
like you know indefinite support is is not something that you can ask for but
65:16
then yeah getting short changed like uh well you know you bought that last
65:20
Tuesday and uh didn't sell the way we thought it would and we want to
65:24
reallocate that team so you have till next Thursday to play your game yeah you
65:28
know I don't know I don't know what the answer is but yeah I think like like
65:32
three years something like that I think that's feasible I mean if you look at the investment that you put into it like
65:36
what what do you expect the life cycle of a game to be especially with the
65:40
sports game where you know I guess replay is is a lot higher you know
65:44
you're not looking replay is incredibly High yeah so it's one of those things
65:48
where it's not like oh I beat the storyline or I'm tired of going out and
65:52
just you know doing raids or whatever else I don't know I mean but I can rest
65:57
assure whatever EA does you guys won't like it you know what I think the
66:02
solution that I would be happy with is
66:05
EA running their own servers for however long they want then
66:10
allowing other people to do so afterwards and allowing third party
66:13
servers to be hosted because that's the thing that kills me about it we've got a
66:16
lot of the twitch chat going like counter- strike still running
66:20
Battlefield Bad Company 2 is still running quake's still running all this
66:23
stuff's still running and it's like well yeah because the community is allowed to keep
66:28
it running that's the problem with EA's closed platform when it comes to server
66:33
hosting is that the game runs for as long as they kind of sit there and go
66:38
like yep and and this time it's not just an EA problem just this EA getting sued
66:43
so it got into our doc well that in EA is one of the worst offenders because
66:47
they're doing yearly releases on their titles I mean if blizzard had released
66:52
you know 16 starcrafts by now I'm willing to bet Starcraft 1 support would
66:56
have fallen away at some point whereas blizzard releases so few titles the
67:01
overhead is especially because a lot of their older library is old ass games
67:06
where the overhead is much lower so so there's all of that but EA backs
67:12
themselves into this corner where realistically if they were fully
67:15
supporting with a battl net like infrastructure every single sports game
67:19
they've ever made for a period of like 10
67:23
years would it really take that much though it wouldn't not take that much
67:28
because even things like security patches security patches you'd have to
67:31
have teams working on them that's a good point the security patches point is very
67:35
good but hosting the infrastructure I it's not going to take that much okay
67:38
that I don't think is the problem the problem is the overhead yeah yeah people
67:42
working on it stuff like that and that's interesting and yes I understand and
67:46
like I said EA is not at all the only company that has done this and had
67:51
problems with it but it's just obviously they're a huge company they're going to
67:54
come up and our do but yeah every week every week in other
67:59
news EA actually did something really good yeah I'll bring this one up but a a
68:06
little bit really good it's it's down a little bit from the other one it's still
68:11
topics I hate to bail but I gotta roll so all right thank you for joining us
68:15
Josh you've been a fantastic guest guys
68:19
that let us know in the twitch chat I'm actually going to start asking twitch
68:22
chat to rate all of our guests on a scale of 1 start with
68:28
Josh he's a model of course he's going to get highly rated models do not always
68:32
get highly rated when they are like you know sex toy models because those
68:38
pictures are gross dude what you didn't
68:41
know what kind of modeling Josh does evidentally neither did I but you
68:46
know I'm glad I found out just because just L it's just cuz you're good with
68:50
Photoshop I don't know what posters you got on your wall but you know I tell you
68:54
what the next time this that that I do the live stream because I will be back
68:58
in person and then I can turn around and look at your I guess homage to Tech
69:05
Syndicate behind you there on the wall hey it is it is always right outside the
69:09
frame at all times you know how Logan's always joking about he could potentially
69:13
not be wearing pants I could potentially have lewd photos of you Logan slick and
69:20
every other industry affiliate that I've ever talked to just out of frame
69:26
right here right here guys and I could
69:29
potentially not be wearing pants peace Josh thanks for joining us and we'll see
69:33
you again soon sounds cool I'll see you guys later thanks for having see you later joosh all
69:38
right so why don't we move on to our next topic which is that EA sucks a
69:42
little bit less a little a little bit less I don't give them that much credit
69:46
for this no neither do I that's why I keep on saying a little bit where is it
69:50
ah yes okay I couldn't find it because it was hiding it the the the the title
69:54
of the article was EA did something good which was I wasn't looking for that even
69:59
so so EA this was posted on the lineus tech tips Forum by user lightning thank
70:04
you very much for that EA raises
70:07
$188,000 for AIDS research more than 80
70:10
staffers took part in the event which is a 10 km fundraising wathon the money
70:14
will go to the San Francisco AIDS Foundation and 50 other Aid Service organizations throughout the bay area's
70:19
important to be involved etc etc etc and
70:25
yeah they they they they match the employees cont contributions okay that's
70:31
what they do so they match the employees contributions which totaled
70:35
$118,000 but you're EA yeah I mean to me this is kind of
70:41
like um you know I can't sorry I can't possibly say it's bad no because it's
70:46
not it's not a bad thing but it's like this doesn't make up for if if I don't I
70:50
don't know maybe this is a yearly thing whatever maybe this has just been going
70:54
on forever but if this was an attempt to like buy back some of the hate like dude
70:58
you're really far off you should have made a bigger splash I mean it's kind of
71:02
like uh it just seems kind of hollow like you know when a celebrity gets
71:07
diagnosed with some disease and then they donate millions of dollars to the
71:10
foundation that's trying to cure the yeah and then when it's something that
71:13
doesn't affect them personally it's just like uh they tweet about it or whatever
71:17
that to me is what this kind of feels like where it's like um yeah you could
71:21
have done more but I don't want to criticize because the reality of it is
71:25
you did thousands of still a very good thing so I'm I'm happy that EA did this
71:30
and if it's a yearly thing then it's just probably something that's been going on forever and it's not a huge
71:34
deal it's just a part of the company that's very cool if this was an attempt
71:37
to like make people like them more then dude you missed the mark by quite a bit
71:43
so I I would like to know more about the story but good job EA thank you for
71:47
donating to raids raids research raids
71:50
research no I think you're thinking of
71:54
Blizzard yeah I I meant to say AIDS research we're on
71:58
fire today we are on fire today all right let's talk about the lab grown
72:01
Burger because I totally think this is awesome so this actually is sort of in
72:07
line with the conversation that we were having about building an all-in-one
72:12
that's a like a boutique grade all-in-one computer when you only build
72:16
a couple of them something that is by definition Boutique it is extremely
72:20
expensive so this is an article from Digital Trends unsurprisingly says the
72:24
headline the $300,000 lab grown Burger so this was
72:30
made using um 3D printing technology as
72:35
well as simulated meat that was grown as
72:39
opposed to actually hold on no no this one does use 3D printing or doesn't I
72:42
know there's something else that's so blah blah yeah 3D printed lab grown
72:46
Burger um to build what should be
72:50
nutritionally and in theory taste-wise
72:53
beef yeah so it's it cost $331,900 to produce no one liked it and
73:01
it's kind of insane but here's the tweets from the uh the BBC
73:06
correspondent Hanny says she expected
73:09
texture to be softer it's close to meat but not juicy there's no fat in the
73:14
burger so tasters say not the right flavor both tasters want
73:18
ketchup the lack of fat marbles means that the lack of savory overindulgent
73:23
finish that we've come to en Joy that's a direct quote almost direct quote from
73:27
the article is is not there we like fat
73:31
we like juice and it's not F salt and fat and salt juice and this is a health
73:36
focused 3D printed Burger yeah I I'm
73:40
sure if they see another thing is if you look at the picture there's bun Patty
73:45
tomato lettuce yeah they probably could have dressed it up a little more mus they
73:50
could they could have put ketchup on it this is kind of a fun article I don't
73:54
know if you read this but they've got other ridiculously expensive foods that
73:57
you could have bought instead so 331 golden opulent Sundays which is like
74:02
expensive chocolates gold covered almonds chocolate truffled candies
74:06
fruits and topped with a 23 karat edible Gold Leaf you can get diamond encrusted
74:10
Sushi you could get 331,000 McDonald's
74:15
cheeseburgers which would kill
74:19
you I mean yeah whatever um all right
74:23
moving on to our next thing John carac joins Oculus as the CTO so we were
74:28
talking last week I think about how NVIDIA is making their own virtual
74:32
reality headset and some thoughts that
74:35
was like a weird prototype weird prototype thing and all that kind of stuff but some some interesting thoughts
74:39
came up people talking about maybe more mature companies were going to step in
74:44
and just blow up the field I saw a lot of comments about this in different
74:47
places and people were worried that Oculus might get run over Oculus would
74:51
Pioneer the whole thing and then just get completely run over John carac steps
74:55
Everything Changes Oculus Rift is now that mature company it like doesn't
75:00
matter anymore The credibility is there just I mean like okay when you're when
75:05
you build the Prototype that works your credibility goes like this oh when valve
75:10
is all like got their panties all wet about what you're doing your credibility
75:13
goes like this John karmac is one of those guys that could actually sit at a
75:18
round table with someone like Gabe Newell and talk shop so when he legit
75:24
joins your company as the CTO then your
75:28
credibility goes like this you get one of those big iterations of credibility
75:31
that he was just talking about it's just huge so good for them what's great about
75:35
him is he's one of those guys that again this is The credibility conversation
75:39
where it goes beyond his technical skill because a lot of uh truly Visionary guys
75:45
I mean I think Steve wnc's a great example which will help segue into our
75:49
next topic um where they're Visionaries
75:52
and they Geniuses and they're brilliant but I mean put them in front of a camera
75:56
or you try to like talk to them and you're kind of
75:59
like they can be I mean and was is a lot better particularly these days I mean
76:04
his Big Bang Theory appearance was awesome yeah
76:07
but having someone who's as eloquent as
76:10
John carac he's a great interviewee he's fantastic I mean's amazing like he's so
76:16
good I mean we could just sort of like you know wank off John karmac for the
76:21
rest of this show I think and and both
76:25
of us would enjoy it I don't know that he would John if you're watching I'm sorry for saying that that was totally
76:29
inappropriate but you're awesome and uh very excited that he's now the CTO of
76:34
oculus rift because I'm super stoked to get it everyone else is super stoked to
76:37
get it and this just makes me much more confident the I mean future of gaming
76:41
guys future of gaming seriously that's uh extremely exciting speaking of which
76:45
I wanted to bring up something that I didn't have a chance to talk about last
76:48
week oh I said I was going to segue into uh into the uh the jobs movie is this
76:54
better than that I think maybe okay let's do it do it um our our old things
76:59
that people tried to make and fail that brutally now becoming things that make
77:04
tons of sense and everyone super excited about like the Power Glove turning into
77:07
peragine Virtual Boy turning into Oculus R I never replied to an email from
77:12
paragan you probably should crap they were gonna no cuz I reached out to them
77:17
about getting a sample so that we could uh so we could check it out and showcase it I'm going to email you right now so
77:22
that you remember to do that later shoot cuz I think he said said no initially
77:25
cuz they didn't have any they didn't have any budget for it or something like that but then I think he reached out to
77:30
me again so for those of you guys who haven't heard of it the paragan glove is
77:35
I'm just going to load it up here the paragan home let's go ahead and fire
77:39
this up all right so there talk about Power Glove versus paragan so Power
77:43
Glove is they're actually very different but the idea of having a controller stra
77:48
to your hand and or ARM in some way is still inherent in peragine so what you
77:52
do is you have your controlling thumb and you touch different points on your
77:55
fingers to the contacts on your um on your thumb so there's contacts along
78:00
each one of your fingers and you touch it to your thumb and then those are
78:03
bound to buttons on your keyboard so you can essentially play games with just
78:06
your hand which is interesting enables
78:10
different my favorite thing about it is if you have special disabilities it can
78:14
help you a lot now you tried it you didn't like it that much initially I
78:18
tried it I didn't like it that much initially because I what I was trying to
78:21
do was and one of the problems is certain pieces of Hardware will not demo
78:26
well you have to use it for a while to
78:29
actually get used to it so I sit down try and play DotA with this thing and
78:32
I'm trying to quickly press all the buttons by tapping my fingers together
78:36
and it just felt weird because my natural muscle memory is not to tap my
78:42
fingers together when I when I want to press uh qw R right I'm not tapping my
78:46
fingers together so I'd run up to someone to fight and then instinctively my hand would like go down to try and
78:51
like tap on the keyboard and i' be like no wait I have to press and then i' have
78:54
to remember like which one was which and it it wasn't twitch and it wasn't
78:58
instinctive but if you play with it for a while it could be twitch and
79:02
instinctive so I would be interested to play with it for like a day instead of a
79:06
five minute demo that I got at PS a few years back right so I didn't like it and
79:11
I don't necessarily think you could be as fast because on a keyboard all your
79:14
fingers will be resting on those keys but okay hold on hold on think about this for a minute
79:19
okay um
79:24
Oculus combining I know exactly paragan and then something like Lea frog
79:31
yep combining everything together all
79:34
these Technologies coming in at one is going to make them all stronger Omni
79:38
needs other things to be awesome Oculus doesn't necessarily need other things to
79:42
be awesome but raises up so much when you add other things to it so I don't
79:46
know it could no
79:50
way so for the fourth time we are attemp
79:54
in to record the back half of this show
79:58
which I think is actually going to
80:03
kill me and or slick at some point here
80:07
because between the technical difficulties with the initial stream and
80:11
then the fact that we thought we were recording and then we weren't and then
80:16
we thought we were recording again and then we weren't because I think that was
80:19
my bad that time cuz I think I clicked live stream and our internet is still
80:23
down um okay and then live stream usually does both so you thought it
80:27
would be fine so I like I was on autopilot I very rarely used the local
80:31
record feature because oh cuz this is supposed to be a
80:35
live show but it's not
80:39
apparently back to Ashton Kutcher back to Ashton Kutcher anyway we left off
80:43
with the paragan where the clip just kind of dies and basically we're excited
80:48
because paragan um is a glove that you
80:51
can use to interact with your computer and with not a keyboard board and that
80:55
plus Leap Motion is cool and that plus Oculus is cool and the way it all
80:59
integrates is going to be cool things that aren't cool Ashton cutcher I'm
81:03
sorry but punct wasn't cool 70 show was
81:06
cool but dude that was an awful long time ago and this is a Gizmodo article
81:11
on was basically saying in an email
81:14
that's kind of not how it happened yeah
81:18
so so I I want to jump in right away on
81:22
something that it took me a while to remember before but in spite of the fact
81:25
that it's in your notes for this topic you said it the first time you said it
81:29
the second time forgot the third time and then the fourth time I'm opening
81:33
with it you're opening with it okay hit me go watch Pirates of Silicone Valley
81:38
it's an amazing movie and is a really good accurate portrayal of the beginning
81:42
of both Microsoft and Apple so if you want all the starting of it go back
81:46
watch that movie it's an older movie it's still really good this has some
81:50
Hollywood going on and I mean there's
81:53
like this scene in an underground parking lot where jobs is like was don't
81:58
you see it's the future of computing
82:01
holy crap man oh my God we're going to change the world and from W's sort of
82:07
interpretation he seems to be a pretty grounded guy with no real incentive to
82:12
lie about things at this point not
82:15
close we never had such interaction and roles I'm not even sure what it's
82:20
getting at personalities are very wrong although
82:24
mine is closer don't forget that my purpose was
82:28
inspired by the values of The Homebrew Computer Club so these ideas that of
82:36
computers affecting Society didn't come from jobs they came from The Homebrew
82:40
Computer Club they were widely spoken about there I'm paraphrasing Steve Jobs
82:44
came back from Oregon came to a club meeting and didn't start talking about
82:48
the great social impact his idea was to make a $20 PC board and sell it for $40
82:52
to help people at the club build the computer he wanted to make some money
82:55
yes and help people build computers the lofty talk came much further down the
82:58
road and I never looked like a professional we were both kids our
83:02
relationship was so different than what was portrayed I'm embarrassed but if the
83:06
movie is fun and entertaining all the better in fact looking at the portrayal
83:10
of jobs in the movie uh based on what I've read in the biography about him
83:15
basically being a smelly hippie that you wouldn't want like anywhere near your
83:19
furniture or children like it it really
83:23
seems like they've go watch Pirates of Silicon Valley okay
83:28
there now we've done that topic let's move on to the next one that we're doing
83:31
for the bloody fourth time HTC1 Max I
83:34
can't even remember is this was this did we do this before I think we did this
83:38
before before the the bad things okay we did the felony thing before the bad
83:42
things the the the console thing yeah console optimizations yes John karmac
83:49
again I swear we could talk about how awesome John karmac is like forever we
83:53
we just did we just we have we have now talked about how awesome John carac is
83:58
forever all day we've been talking about John carac you're awesome um so
84:02
basically the performance boosts oh this
84:06
was posted on the Forum by Tech fanatic Matt higgy has come out and said the
84:10
performance boosts that they are achieving by optimizing their game for
84:16
multicore in order to Port it to the PlayStation 4 are already going to be
84:21
able to affect the optimization of the PC
84:24
version and Planet Side 2 is nothing if not a poorly optimized single thread
84:31
single thread only game so the thing
84:36
about PS4 and Xbox One is that they might have eight core CPUs but man they
84:40
are not powerful cores no they are like they are like if you know a vegetarian
84:46
had bulimia and wasn't taking the proper supplements like dude they've got no
84:50
energy because they're you know not
84:53
suppl they don't have a correct diet and they're not keeping their food I don't
84:58
know where I'm going with this I'm tired
85:01
it has actually been a phenomenally long day and I didn't sleep till like 5:30
85:04
last night he's had a different way of describing those cores every single time
85:09
we've done this and that was the best one I think by best You' being worst
85:14
yeah anyway the cores aren't very powerful so for game developers to be
85:19
able to leverage that power we're talking we we're talking cell processor
85:23
all over again where it's that was way Ahad of time and no one was able to
85:27
optimize it different architecture and there was a buch ofes and blah blah blah
85:30
blah blah now they x86 so it's like guys
85:34
get your act together optimize this
85:37
stuff and the PC will benefit as well which is great because developers could
85:41
rely on the PC to have these Uber single
85:45
thread cores and that's on both the Intel and AMD side but these more mobile
85:49
optimized low power consumption Apu chips in these consoles aren't able to
85:53
do it it's going be great because games like Planet Side had no real intention
85:57
of updating the performance of their game who really cares they're going to
86:00
maybe runs well enough yeah it's fine people know how much they need to run
86:04
Planet Side so now they're optimizing it for the console and now it's just going
86:08
to make everything better it's not a bad thing at all speaking of optimization
86:12
wait did we talk about Cuda is doomed I have no idea I have no idea what we
86:16
talked about anyway icho on the Forum skip this if we've already talked about
86:20
it I don't I don't know um so
86:26
oh man basically AMD shots fired Ron Taylor on apus gaming in the end of Cuda
86:31
basically the summary is Cuda is a closed standard Gamers like what's this
86:37
this quote is so awesome just fires
86:40
everything all the bullets F okay so he's talking about FX but because
86:45
there's a parallel being drawn between FX and Cuda and that they're both close
86:48
standards unlike opencl FX is an utter
86:51
failure because it's proprietary nobody want wants it you don't want it I don't
86:56
want it Gamers don't want it analysts don't want
87:00
it so I think that pretty much uh that
87:03
pretty much says it I mean the thing about fiz X is that in the very
87:07
beginning it was much more terrible than it is now it was like this weird
87:11
dedicated card that ran in a PCI slot of all things I me nobody really bought it
87:16
yeah if anyone needed to sort of you know work through their mind that it
87:20
wasn't doing anything the fact that it ran in a PCI slot meant that there
87:25
probably wasn't much data transfer going on here so it probably wasn't I mean
87:28
that's an oversimplification it could be doing a lot of work on its side and then
87:32
spitting out results that don't require much bandwidth but I'm just I'm kind of
87:35
making fun of it um and then it got better when NVIDIA acquired them and now
87:39
anyone with an NVIDIA graphics card was able to run physx accelerated Cuda
87:44
accelerated physx all that stuff but at the end of the day I think that I think
87:48
he's right I think Open Standards like open CL are going to be the future I
87:52
mean you look at even companies like Adobe what a major win that was CS6
87:56
running Cuda that might have just won it for them because okay open platforms and
88:00
computers go together like nothing ever before people love open platforms on
88:04
computers I trying to find a different way to say this than every single other
88:07
time I've said it um you don't have to it's okay just go over bait them and
88:11
they'll bear with it there there's paid which people aren't totally into on
88:15
computers then there's free which is kind of a big deal then there's open
88:18
which is on a completely different platform because the second you bring out open everyone can optimize it for
88:23
their own use and they can either deliver it for free or they can charge
88:26
money or they can charge money for it depending on how they how they augment
88:29
it but when someone like Adobe backs it you know that adobe is going to probably
88:34
be contributing in some way yes and I mean the thing is that it's not like
88:39
cuda's dead no like it's certainly not dead today I mean look at something like
88:43
the Titan super computer any kind of specialized application where you're
88:48
really like specialized hardware and specialized programming languages may
88:52
actually be optimal for an like that where you are really dialing
88:57
down into the hardware to get the absolute most out of it and you're
89:00
purpose building a single machine and purpose building software to run on it
89:04
but then again maybe that's what Ron's talking about is maybe we shouldn't
89:08
purpose build software in purpose bu because at the same time if if you take
89:12
an open platform you can you can hack into it and change things to make it
89:16
purpose buil yes so so open is open's
89:20
great and that's basically what he's saying so there there you go yet another
89:25
thing that uh that we something talked about before but now we're talking about
89:30
again um did we talk about 3D NE flash yet ah
89:36
yes no we didn't okay Samsung changing the SSD game again with 3D vertical Nan
89:43
flash this is fantastic because Samsung's already using really
89:48
Innovative strategies to bring more performance to SSD so things like RAM
89:52
caching with their rapid technology Tech ology as well as that weird mode I don't
89:57
even remember what they call it but basically they're emulating SLC flash
90:02
operation on TLC Flash in order to get a
90:05
performance boost that's temporary but very very real and something that many
90:10
users will be able to realize a lot of the time definely now they're driving
90:14
capacity what how many layers is this 24 I believe so there it is uh yes 24
90:19
layers vertically they can stack 24 layers of traditional styled flash this
90:23
was posted by M on the Forum by the way on top of each other's vertically to
90:27
just oh your capacities are going to explode so we're going to be talking
90:30
about smartphones that instead of coming in 16 32 and 64 gig like they have been
90:37
since the dawn of bloody time we might be talking about 384 gig
90:42
smartphone a yeah I mean come on like iPad 1 had the same capacities available
90:47
as iPad 4 which is brutal and you look at Apple they actually are trying to
90:53
drive things forward look launched IP after IP 3 we we can
90:59
build so here it is does it bone people
91:02
who just bought an iPad 3 a little bit oh I don't know maybe but they don't
91:06
care here's a higher resolution display because we can here's a more faster
91:09
processor because we can and I think if they could deliver higher capacities
91:13
while maintaining their lucrative product profit margins they would this
91:17
will enable it so yay stacking stuff find another topic go
91:23
go uh what have we not talked about NVIDIA tablet Market thing yes yay
91:29
NVIDIA diving into tablets Beyond NVIDIA Shield which hopefully ours is going to
91:33
arrive soon so what we were discussing was how Microsoft tried to dive into
91:37
tablets and it was a very very bad thing very very bad thing and how while this
91:42
is dangerous and I think jumping into the tablet game at this point in time is
91:45
borderline suicidal posted by telha on the Forum by the way there's a Maximum
91:49
PC article that we're going to go to go ahead y um it's it's borderline suicide
91:54
but if someone's going to do it it might as well be NVIDIA because they're going to gain some experience from their
91:58
shield and they're going to get more developers looking into building that
92:02
style of Android game not necessarily touchcreen Android game and then they're
92:05
going to come up with a tablet and that tablet will probably like hear
92:10
controllers whatnot like it's it's going to be Tegra 5 it's going to be gaming
92:14
and I mean you look at what they're doing on the software side as well it's
92:17
more than just the hardware with these guys lately and I mean that's what and
92:21
it's funny because that uh that article has a link or has a picture of the Razor
92:26
Edge and that's another company that's trying to differentiate based on not
92:31
only Hardware but also software so you look at what they're doing with comms
92:35
which by the way guys we are powered by Razer comms download it here if you
92:39
haven't already try it out it's free it's voice chat software that doesn't
92:43
require any kind of server or any kind of complicated setup and anyway that's
92:46
what NVIDIA is doing Shadow play GeForce experience it's more than just FPS now
92:51
yeah yeah and the built-in h264 encod in
92:54
Kepler may be a big part of this
92:58
upcoming tablet I fully expect them you you said that was a picture of the razor
93:01
tablet and yeah but I fully expect them to have some type of controllers oh yeah
93:05
I wouldn't be surprised at all probably similar to that style or something like
93:08
that style and I mean with h264 and code like with Shield you're able to use a
93:13
Kepler grade GPU to push to it and it can decode it yeah but this is an older
93:18
architecture now at this point whereas if we have a Kepler based on the tablet
93:22
now all of a sudden stand like Wy that
93:25
are I mean come on who's put up your hand if you actually used YY at some
93:31
point other than at work no so I'm not going to put up my hand so okay Wii uh
93:36
you know you look at devices like chomecast we might be looking at with
93:40
built-in hardware and coding ways to stream High much higher bit rate much
93:45
higher quality video streams with dumb
93:48
dongles on the other end and by the time that rolls around we might have a Next
93:52
Generation CH caster something like that that's per that's a perfect match for it
93:56
yep definitely definitely extremely exciting so if anyone's going to pull it
94:00
off probably NVIDIA probably NVIDIA so it's still crazy yeah it's still insane
94:05
but they could do it which is cool um was that all we did before build
94:11
doogs or did we do more uh we had the radon 9970 rumors so this is the
94:17
volcanic islands series of gpus which is
94:20
sort of appropriate because per meru
94:23
post on the Forum the rumor is the 9970 will have a 300 wat TDP which actually
94:30
if that's true I can't imagine that's true that should exceed the PCI Express
94:33
standard I believe I thought it was 275 Max that's interesting I didn't even
94:38
think about that I could be wrong I could be wrong but anyway huge TDP this
94:43
is the rumored card uh the code name is Hawaii there's also a rumor that they're
94:47
going to launch it in Hawaii at like a special press event that would be kind
94:51
of cool um prepare your water blocks Oh
94:55
serious post here I we've talked a few times about how
94:59
water cooling not being as big of a deal as it was before on graphics cards it's
95:03
becoming a bigger deal hello yeah exactly Titan this speaking of Titan the
95:08
rumored performance is that it'll be around 5% faster than Titan so while we
95:14
can't confirm nor deny the rumors because we actually don't know there's
95:18
oh wait there's a lot of stuff in here about specs so they're claiming 1 gigz
95:22
clock speeds with 4 th Shader units um
95:25
effective memory clock of anywhere from 6 GHz to 6 7 GHz 52 bit bus 4 gigs of
95:31
ddr5 gddr5 memory um I guess it's kind of in line
95:37
with even though we can't confirm or deny kind of in line with what AMD's
95:42
been doing it makes sense they slapped pricing on
95:46
$79.90 got that driver out pricing I don't know if you saw netlink but there
95:50
was a 7970 for like 329
95:53
which is pretty cheap so it is pretty cheap yeah it's looking like they're
95:57
adjusting pricing in their product stack to make room for these before they even
96:01
arrive so yeah it could be a very exciting time
96:06
for graphics cards over the next little bit here graphics cards have been really exciting for a little bit and AMD has
96:12
been kind of doing things a little differently like coming out and saying
96:16
no new gpus this year and then just and
96:19
then releasing one like immediately with the 7790 I was a different architecture and
96:25
then like it's like September which is
96:29
last time I checked in the same calendar year as like February when they were
96:34
saying this I says pardon so guys when does
96:42
your year start Yo Dogs I heard you like
96:46
sort of throwing everyone off a cliff in
96:50
terms of how closely they're able to follow along with what you're doing
96:53
doing exactly over there I mean I guess it's good because you know you don't
96:57
want your competitor getting the drop on you or anything like that but uh which
97:02
normally it seems like everyone does but in this case not necessarily yep yep yep
97:07
all right why don't we tackle one more topic before we do build of the week and
97:10
then we can uh sign off for the fourth bloody time on this uh here why don't we
97:16
do something that we skipped last time Microsoft digs more holes for its
97:21
console okay so I got find this give me one
97:27
second those movies crashed as badly with the fourth installment as the X I
97:32
wish it was the fourth Xbox wouldn't that be great I love Harrison Ford and Indiana
97:38
Jones as much as anyone but speaking of which Harrison Ford is apparently going
97:43
to be in the new Expendables movie really yeah Bruce Willis was asking for
97:47
a million dollar a day they offered him 3 million for 4 days and he held out and
97:54
uh Stallone replaced him within 72 hours
97:57
with on his Twitter he was like a better actor a nicer guy and then he said
98:03
something on Twitter about how like being lazy and greedy is a bad career
98:07
move or something like that so well this is supposed to the whole idea of
98:10
Expendables was they were just screwing around was it not the first movie was
98:14
terrible so they couldn't have possibly been trying to make a serious movie it
98:18
was supposed to be just like everyone getting back together we're kind of
98:21
getting older now it's kind of the end of our careers just make a movie and have fun that's I I read that and then
98:26
here we are three movies into the who
98:29
cares whatever I refused to watch the second one based on how terrible the
98:33
first one was I don't think it's for you I think they're having fun on their
98:38
own oh well whatever um dlf posts on the
98:42
Forum this is uh this is a an article from one hit pixel oh this is just
98:49
terrible cuz game streaming is such a big thing and you look at companies like
98:54
twitch where we stream our where we do our live stream and everyone's trying to
98:58
figure out how to cash in on game streaming Microsoft apparently thinks
99:02
the method to cash in is going to be to require users to pay for Xbox Live uh
99:09
gold one thing is people are probably going to be streaming multiplayer games
99:13
just to be completely honest and if you're playing a multiplayer game you have Xbox Gold anyways okay that much is
99:17
true I'm gonna I'm gonna play Devil's although I will okay although I will
99:22
never ever mark my words sign up for a
99:25
subscription based server it's not g to happen so
99:30
you're not so I won't sign up for a pay permon MMO I'm not a console player I
99:36
know but I mean even on PC I won't sign up for a pay permon MMO I'm not going to
99:41
I don't support that model it's a I don't like that model freeo play is
99:46
getting kind of gross lately though dedicated servers dedicated servers are
99:49
awesome dedicated servers are what I want and no I I don't don't I don't
99:53
think free to play is necessarily the right way to go either because there's a
99:57
lot of pay to win and there's a lot of uh what I think it was Logan that was
100:01
talking about just sort of the general level of trolling stupid itude that goes
100:06
on with with freeo play no barrier of Entry I think is not necessarily great
100:10
either but yeah anyway
100:14
so I mean and imagining paying for an
100:17
Xbox Live gold membership to me is like if you guys all just refused to pay for
100:22
it it would go away it would would be free they do need people to buy the
100:25
consoles and they do need people to buy the games but everyone just kind of
100:28
keeps doing it sry go ahead I'm just at the same time Sony had it free people
100:33
didn't like it so to BU the they had to
100:36
make it paid so they could fund it more had to is an awfully strong way two to
100:41
keep shareholders happy and if they didn't their company could
100:44
close when you're a publicly traded company you have to do certain things
100:48
okay fine um and and as now this is just
100:51
something that I scraped up right before the stream started so please correct me
100:54
if I'm wrong in the comments but as far as I know you can record but not
100:58
necessarily upload through the PlayStation if you don't have PlayStation Plus or whatever it's called
101:03
okay but it makes a ton of sense that you could just take that file and upload
101:07
it off your computer oh wait no it says right here Sony's share feature for
101:11
PlayStation 4 allows users to record and upload up to 15 minutes of footage and
101:14
is not restricted to PlayStation Plus users record and upload okay yeah so
101:18
Microsoft says uh allows gold numbers to record up to 5 minutes of in-game
101:22
footage for editing and upload to the Xbox Live service that's that's a thing
101:26
too they can apparently edit it on the Xbox I don't think you can edit why
101:30
would you want us why would what what who Who records a five minute recording
101:34
and then edits it on their XBox I mean this is how out of touch Microsoft is
101:39
yep I agree I saw that and I was like oh cool you can edit it terribly like it's
101:44
just going to suck all you're going to be doing is cutting it and it won't be
101:47
that great I mean looking at how much worse they managed to make Windows Live Movie Maker than the original Windows
101:52
Movie Maker the original Windows Movie Maker as far as I have been told wasn't
101:55
even that bad no it wasn't that bad yeah Windows Live Movie Maker isn't even that
101:59
bad but it isn't as good as the old one yeah yeah so
102:03
anyway brutal we should all just go back to that awesome game 3D Movie Maker that
102:09
thing was awesome you're too you're too young for that game but it was oh man it
102:12
was awesome uh I wasn't actually I can't believe it's 5 minutes anyway I still
102:16
don't think this is going to prevent you from capturing via HDMI using something
102:20
like an a live gamer portable or something like that my understanding is
102:25
Microsoft hasn't said that they're going to be enabling htcp whereas I believe
102:30
Sony is still holding to the hdcp enabled outputs on PS4 just like they
102:34
did with PS3 so it's not like Sony is perfect in all of this by any stretch of
102:39
the imagination all right all
102:42
right now to build logs we keep going we have a few more topics yeah we do kind
102:46
of have a few more CBS blocks online subscribers from watching their con
102:50
content if they use Time Warner they're big is like totally not okay nope to to
102:56
put it in sort of the most this is posted on the Forum by E chondo
103:01
ho crap in response to time order
103:05
cutting off access to CBS in a few major markets today CBS has retaliated Against
103:09
Time Warner Internet subscribers by blocking access to popular CBS shows
103:14
currently available to watch on cbs.com
103:17
this my friends is an abuse of power and
103:21
is nothing to do with the way that the internet should be working Internet
103:26
Service Pro I mean we're not even talking traffic shaping anymore we're
103:30
talking about outright that's my competitor and I want people who support
103:35
my competitor to be punished punishing your customers or anyone else's
103:41
customers punishing the customer is
103:44
it I'm just mad
103:48
basically screwing over your customer in anyway screwing over anyone in any way
103:51
should not be allowed and this is directly screwing over someone that is feeding you money it's not okay and
103:58
just time order representatives are calling out cbs's move as an abuse of
104:02
power specifically stating CBS has shown an utter lack of regard for consumers by
104:07
blocking Time Warner Cables customers including our high-speed data only
104:10
customers so not even a cable TV competitor from accessing the shows on
104:16
their free website CPS enjoys the privilege of using public owned Airwaves
104:21
to deliver their programming they should not be allowed to abuse that
104:24
privilege it's getting real y'all everything with different isps is
104:30
getting nuts right now I hope that they you know what I almost hope that they
104:35
abuse it that they abuse their power as much as they possibly can get away with
104:40
they get crushed so that they get crushed so that there is so that the
104:43
government can't just kind of you know
104:47
be like well it's not that bad yet we're
104:50
just G just crush them you know what I
104:53
hope that it gets to the point where a
104:57
third of the subscribers in the US can't access a third of the other websites
105:02
because it's not being served over someone's pipe or someone's butt hurt
105:06
because someone else's Hub is you know has band with being using I hope that
105:11
they get that petty about it so that this all just goes away that is what I
105:16
hope because otherwise I don't think it'll go away no probably
105:20
not h all right why don't we call that it
105:25
let's do build logs of the week which conveniently I already have downloaded
105:29
because we've already done this so I'm just going to have to find the download
105:34
and we are starting with the aquad
105:38
dreamer boom beautiful just like last
105:45
time I was just gonna say it's kind of weird doing this again because usually
105:49
it's it's it's first usually fairly first impressions for you yeah
105:53
and I haven't seen my PowerPoint other than just stretching the image and going
105:57
for gold so it's it looks it looks very
106:01
nice um one thing that you brought up the first time is he's got four fans
106:05
going in some crazy awesome wind tunnel yeah the four fans here it's like fan
106:10
one fan two fan three fan four and it's
106:13
just like all the air but it shouldn't be loud because those are fantex fans
106:17
those are quite nice fans he's got he's got white white LED strips going all the
106:21
way around the outside of his case which look great gge and he has awesome
106:25
awesome sing on everything and a lot of nice custom spray painting I pain
106:30
graphics card shouds painted as or Crossfire Bridge rather um you had
106:35
brought up the first time around that it was supposed to originally be a water
106:38
cooled build but kind of looks like it's underwater anyway it's a nice night shot
106:42
yep it's it's hard to get nice night shots but it looks it looks great there
106:46
he did a really really good job with this system all right speaking of knights
106:51
this one's nuts these photos that we have here are in his basically it looks
106:55
kind of like a pamphlet advertisement at the end these are not his build log in
106:59
progress photos i' highly suggest that you check out all the Builds on the pill
107:03
blog there is so much back sweat going into this pillow at this point that I
107:06
think it's almost soaked all the way through it smells awful like here I
107:12
don't want to smell it I don't want to smell it I want to talk about a
107:16
Dragonite PC
107:20
jeez wow okay Paul T has been on build
107:24
logs of the week before he makes awesome incredible computers um I I wouldn't be
107:28
surprised at all if he's selling this it looks even say he's the pton of Computer
107:35
Builders oh my goodness let me just go ahead and open this up wow just like
107:40
last time it's amazing it's a it's a
107:43
Cosmos 2 the front is gorgeous the Sid's
107:46
got a window that's gorgeous and custom and holy crap it gets better than that
107:52
my problem with the Cosmos 2 is that it's big for no apparent reason you
107:56
can't actually put that much stuff in it but it looks like he basically got it it
107:59
so one thing that he's done if you notice right away is there's no I/O coming out of the back of the case the
108:03
back of the case is on the the right hand picture so what he's done is
108:06
rotated the motherboard 90° and custom formed the computer to work well with
108:11
that so he's made an exhaust area on the back which can't see a ton of details on
108:16
there but it has individual slanting down fins it's a dark night how much
108:19
were you expecting to see oh my God hey oh why are you
108:25
trolling Paul system um cuz I love it so
108:28
hard that's I guess that's not a bad not a bad point yeah could be worse um yeah
108:34
so he's done a ton of custom work for it if you want to see his like artist
108:37
rendering prototype designs before he started building and his whole huge
108:42
amount of pictures build log please check it out on the Forum yeah check out the build log section of the build logs
108:48
Forum build logs of the week section of the build log forum
108:55
okay so um this system has actually been done for a while I just have not been
109:00
able to get wher to put it in the actual freaking build log section so he finally
109:04
did so we're finally showcasing it this isn't necessarily something that's kind
109:07
of along the lines of what we usually put on here yeah gaming rigs yeah not
109:11
for gaming although with six PCI Express slots and 32 opteron course and looks
109:19
like up to whatever 8 by 16 would be so
109:22
so 8 * 10 is 80 and another five is 40
109:26
so that's 100 probably what 156 gigs of memory or something stupid like that
109:31
yeah about there that sounds about right yeah potentially so as long as the board
109:36
actually supports it um like my SSD and my laptop isn't that big and we're
109:41
talking RAM I I wonder if that board supports it
109:46
um yeah so click next might should even support more than that because if you
109:50
throw some register dims in there I think there are 16 G registered
109:54
Dems sexy that' be cool Dem heat sinks
109:58
that RAM yep that custom rack I was just that
110:04
rack wow um so he he he commissioned
110:08
this rack it's you can you can get custom design racks from I don't
110:11
remember the guy's name I've heard they plastic surgeons that do
110:14
that this guy does it with a luminum aluminum custom design racks that is
110:19
some space aged stuff you got going on there armor rack armor you know maybe
110:24
that explains chicks NVIDIA games
110:28
right that's why their boobs are so big
110:32
because they're armor they H right because they it's for plaing on the
110:36
inside because they patted the bra because they have poor
110:39
self-esteem then they had to wear armor
110:42
then there's clothing over
110:47
top solve that mystery
110:54
what now ESRB
110:58
anyways sorry we've done this a
111:03
lot had to make it interesting somehow this is a freaking awesome build and I'm
111:07
super stoked that wher did it and this is purely for folding as far as I know I
111:11
don't think he does anything with this system other than fold and it gets some
111:15
like monstrous number of I think it's
111:18
350,000 PPI or pbd pbd I think it's
111:21
called something ridiculous I mean wher's Far and Away the uh biggest contributor to the lus tech tips for
111:26
unfolding team dude you're awesome and I
111:29
think that pretty much wraps it up for the WAN Show this week thank you for
111:33
tuning in or I don't know it's not live anymore so thanks for watching the
111:38
archive thanks for watching the archive yo peace bye hopefully it worked this
111:44
time yeah I know right