The WAN Show : Canadian Telcos are Whining, AMD Hawaii Rumours, and GUEST Josh - August 9, 2013

Linus Tech Tips ·Linus Tech Tips ·2014-05-07 · 22,252 words · ~111 min read
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0:00 welcome to the W show we're getting Technical and we're getting sweaty
0:04 apparently cuz like if I gave you a bear hug right now like it would be gross you
0:09 know it would be gross but I'm so used to it from sports that it's like it's only a little bit gross right I guess in
0:14 the shower when you guys hug each other you're wet from the
0:19 shower wow you know I never like a
0:22 minute in I never I don't think for a minute
0:26 in I never actually played a sport that involved um like neither did I like
0:32 group showers neither did I oh I mean much to my much to my regret because
0:36 guess yeah I did football you played
0:40 football actually football didn't out of all no way how does football not in
0:44 showers it was hockey football is all about like the bum slapping in the
0:47 showers and stuff is my understanding everyone drove home sweaty everybody H
0:52 like you pretty much never had locker rooms interesting cuz I didn't play
0:55 school football right okay and we're in Canada right where football is like not
1:00 not nearly as big all right so things that are things we have a great L show
1:05 for you guys this week John karmac joins Ulus as CTO but remains working for ID
1:11 software okay so it's he hasn't completely gone off his tree but he's uh
1:16 he's evidently making a major bet on VR
1:20 and Oculus in particular which has got to be really exciting for them
1:23 especially after the tragedy recently where one of their co-founders was uh
1:28 was killed in an accident so uh that's uh that's kind of a big deal uh lab
1:33 grown Burger cost $300,000 tastes gross
1:37 apparently um the jobs movie has been uh
1:41 sort of critically blown up a little bit was who
1:47 is is outspoken on everything and very interesting to listen to yeah yeah yeah
1:52 exactly um has come out and said that a
1:56 a very main particular scene in the movie just didn't happen at all and it's
2:00 he's not too worried that it didn't happen because obviously certain okay you're telling them too much about it
2:04 this is the pre thing okay
2:09 okay really you've got oh you've got to be kidding me okay well I blame I blame
2:15 diesel for this hit it add media file
2:43 without further Ado it's August 9th 2013
2:48 and I don't have my
2:51 headphones yes the green machine is
2:56 attached to my neck which will obviously contribute to the sweatiness our special
3:01 guest today if you guys don't already know if you didn't see the YouTube
3:04 announcement is the one and only Yosh from fractal Yos yes Yos well he works
3:09 for a Swedish company but he's not but he's not Swedish no he's about his
3:13 American I just found out he lives in Iowa yeah yeah you just found that out I
3:17 had no idea he was I knew he was somewhere east of here that's not really
3:22 saying a whole lot I KN you live in like that area it's
3:27 it's over there well no I I knew I knew that he was on the continent of North
3:31 America I knew he was south of the 49th parallel and I knew he was east of here
3:36 these are all the things I knew uh at any rate Josh is one of our favorite
3:41 industry Affiliates he's uh he's the
3:44 former CEO and president and whatever he
3:47 wants to call himself of biohazard computers which was a boutique uh system
3:52 builder that actually did some really crazy stuff I mean when we talk about
3:56 Boutique system Builders we're talking paint jobs we we're talking like water
4:01 cooling we're talking like all kinds of cool yeah no Josh was not much crazier
4:06 than that phase change all that kinds of awesome awesome awesome stuff so should
4:11 we jump right into it what do you want to hit first we have so many great
4:15 topics today we can jump um right into the top of the list if you want and talk
4:19 about cellular companies in Canada did you put things in order this week a
4:22 little bit cuz I'll be kind of impressed if you managed to do that it it it has a
4:26 interesting flow where it mixes it up so if people want to see a range of stuff
4:30 give them range of stuff cellular companies in Canada are crying foul
4:35 about the Canadian government facilitating the entry of Verizon
4:40 Wireless into Canada um now this is this
4:44 is actually kind of funny the source for this one or at least where I first saw
4:48 it was from the NC Forum so I guess I
4:51 better give turx over there who I've actually had a number of exchanges with
4:55 over the years he's got like 5,000 posts on there the uh credit for this one and
5:00 I want you guys to watch this video it's not that long Canadians deserve a Level
5:06 Playing Field fair for Canada this is the closest that publicly I've ever seen
5:12 the main Telos here in Canada collaborate so B Rogers and Tellis are
5:17 like this should give some idea how like
5:22 sleeping together they all are because
5:25 it didn't take long to get a nice schmexy looking little we website about
5:30 how it's totally unfair to allow another wireless player in and I just I just
5:33 want you guys to watch this I want to know if you can relate to this tell me
5:37 if the Telos we're going to do a Twitter Blitz after this guys tell me if the
5:40 Telos in your country are this frakin
5:44 brutal hi Michelle kick us off here a
5:48 giant us comp to come to Canada I
5:51 thought will there be thousands of jobs lost think about it experts are saying
5:56 most of their good jobs will stay South of the Border most of to their profits
6:00 too then this us giant gets to use our
6:03 existing infrastructure that took us 25 years to build and they don't contribute
6:08 a scent so Canadian taxpayers will be effectively subsidizing the whole thing
6:13 I believe communities like the montans of Canada should get the same technology
6:17 that the big cities do that way my neighbors can be as productive and as
6:21 plugged in as people in any other part of the country it makes me proud it's a
6:26 very Canadian thing but now our government is allowing a giant us cell
6:30 phone company to buy up small Canadian operators that cell phone companies like
6:35 mine aren't allowed to buy since we can't bid they'll likely even get a huge
6:39 discount on the price effectively at Canadian taxpayers expense but it gets
6:44 better better for them even though this company is four times as big as all of
6:49 Canada's cell phone companies combined they're basically getting a huge
6:53 discount to enter Canada will they care about employment in Canada I think you
6:57 know the answer that's not fair for canadi
7:00 will this giant us company virtually ignore small communities like mine and
7:04 focus on big cities it makes me angry
7:07 that the government is selling us out you know we teach our kids to play fair
7:12 that's about as Canadian as it gets so why is our government giving a giant us
7:16 Corporation special treatment that's not real competition it doesn't sound fair
7:20 for Canadians Ottawa should do something about the loopholes fast it doesn't just
7:25 hurt me oh wow I can't even watch this anymore country holy crap I don't think
7:30 I made it all the way through last time either cuz that thing is two minutes of
7:35 the most inan driil I think I have ever
7:39 seen in my life it's this big old Saab
7:42 story about like Mega Corporation I'm
7:46 sorry there Verizon Wireless is only four times your size and you're kind of
7:51 sitting here going boohoo poor
7:56 me I mean you
8:00 C certain things that I like in there are just things that are completely blatantly wrong where they're like small
8:04 communities should be able to have all the technology that big communities have my grandpa lives in near Winnipeg rural
8:10 Farmland area cannot get anything other
8:13 than like dead slow dialup and there goes my phone again um and like it sucks
8:18 he doesn't want it to be that slow he's an older guy and won't use the internet
8:22 that much but when it takes him a few minutes to load a basic web page and
8:27 when I can't show him anything that we make because on YouTube and that's too
8:30 much for dialup it's kind of messed up
8:34 so that's just blatantly wrong and then the the whole fair play thing fair for
8:38 Canadians it's already not fair for Canadians we pay way too much it's it's
8:42 fair for you jerk it's not fair for us I
8:45 mean the thing that bothers me about this is all you need to know about
8:49 someone's business model and someone's profitability you can you can know
8:54 everything you need to know about a company without even looking at a public
8:58 company's Financial if the local sports arena is called the
9:04 Rogers Arena then Rogers had way too
9:07 much money left on their balance sheet knows they're going to have way too much
9:11 money left on their balance sheet for the foreseeable future and needs a major
9:15 spend that they can just kind of well justify somehow because naming Sports
9:21 Arenas is a terrible terrible terrible Roi and is basically just a way to burn
9:26 money so that it kind of goes away quietly um that should be all you need
9:30 to know about how much of that money could have been spent on the
9:33 infrastructure that would bring oh I don't know highp speed higher speed
9:38 internet connections better cell phone reception more Advanced Technologies
9:42 whatever else the case may be or improving customer service which quite
9:46 frankly out of all of them the ones I've had the best experience with at least on
9:50 the cell phone side has been Bell and Rogers tell us is absolutely terrible
9:55 and speaking to former tus employees the amount of bureaucracy and Bs that goes
10:00 on there do you remember the story I told you the screwdriver Story the screwdriver Story how many people does
10:05 it take to put a piece of RAM in a server at tell us you said I think it
10:09 was four right it was I believe it was three three okay one one well it was the
10:13 one guy who wanted it done who was who was my buddy and then it was someone to
10:19 open the case yeah someone to install the RAM and then was it I thought I
10:25 thought it was one person to slide it out one person to open it one person to put the RAM in one person to CL close it
10:29 one person to close it no no no that was me joking about it but the no the third
10:33 guy had to supervise oh yeah yeah yeah yes so the third guy was a supervisor
10:37 and I'm sitting here going you know what boo Fring who you don't have enough
10:41 money maybe stop wasting it on things like that so let's go to the Twitter
10:44 boards and let you guys uh give us your take on the
10:48 whole how bad would you feel for your
10:51 incumbent Telos if your government basically stepped in and said well hold
10:56 on a second let's try to actually improve the quality of Serv whether the
11:00 Improvement in quality of service is for urban areas and I do understand their
11:04 point where yeah Verizon's going to come in and they're going to go after the
11:07 biggest whack load of customers of course but you know what you guys what
11:11 you could do is you could spend some of the money that you have from your
11:15 current customers because you know what's coming upgrading your infrastructure and accessing the
11:18 customers Verizon can't touch for now
11:21 make it hard for them don't make a whiny
11:25 video be aggressive give us the wireless
11:28 rates we know that you can to clear them
11:32 to clear some things up the auction that they're talking about the unfairness
11:35 that they're talking about is for the 700 MHz Spectrum um new entrance so say
11:40 Verizon are able to bid for two of the four blocks of the new Spectrum they're
11:45 like allowed to bid for two of them and incumbents or current ones are only
11:49 allowed to bid for one each each each group that's already here is only
11:53 allowed to bid on One Verizon would be allowed to bid on two that's what
11:57 they're so mad about and and there and there and their butt hurt because
12:00 they're not allowed to bid because
12:03 that's anti-competitive that we're not allowed to bid what about all the little
12:08 guys that you guys drove under by overbidding for any existing spectrum
12:13 that has been up for auction over the last however many decades it's been
12:17 pretty much impossible it's been impossible for anyone else to get
12:20 involved unless it's mandated by law such as that local cable company Delta
12:25 cable where Shaw is not allowed in that municipality for whatever reason I'm not
12:29 what it is but the reality of it is these are the same things you guys are
12:33 all complainy pants about that you have been doing to other companies for all of
12:37 these years so there you go that's what I have to
12:43 say about it all right Twitter boards been on holiday for a week with
12:47 no phone or Internet hey speaking of things that Telos need to get into the
12:51 uh whatever Century we're in about the fact that you being on holiday why is
12:56 this all glitching out that's kind of weird screen region let's try that again again add screen region uh roaming
13:02 charges if that's not a you know archaic
13:05 thing yeah oh like if that's not a bunch of like
13:11 skevy uh Executives sitting around a
13:14 table sort of behind closed doors
13:18 collaborating and colluding to keep rates as high as they possibly can I
13:21 don't know what is um JK okay you're going to have to message us again when
13:25 Josh is actually on our government does have a fiber initiative which all line
13:29 providers have to be included in New Zealand and it's pushing us
13:33 forward I got no problem with government mandated everyone gets to be involved
13:39 yeah it's pretty much like in the UK all the infrastructure is based on BT they
13:43 own all the lines and dictate everything and that's exactly how it is here the
13:47 guys who own the lines just call the shots and hopefully uh you know
13:52 hopefully the move to wireless Spectrum where instead of it just being like oh
13:57 well you know you collaborated 100 years ago to build these phone lines which has
14:02 absolutely nothing to do with how the world works today therefore you own all
14:06 of it and we can't do anything with wireless at least it can be controlled
14:10 somewhat moving forward and there will be a balancing act I mean it's not like
14:14 if Verizon comes in here and steals all the business they won't which they can't
14:20 because they don't even own enough Spectrum to do it in the first place and it's not like the government's going to
14:24 be like yeah you guys are never allowed to bid on Spectrum ever again it's just
14:28 going to it's going to be Balancing Act in the future and they don't want it no
14:32 they don't want that and I just and I guess the thing that bothers me most
14:35 about it is the three of them are like getting in together to band up about it
14:39 because Verizon might not come in and play their game what I don't like is
14:44 that it's not fair for Canadians it's not fair for Canadians and they're
14:48 saying they're going to take a massive amount of the jobs they will take some
14:51 of the jobs but I guarantee you technicians are still going to need to
14:54 be up here and if technicians still need to be up here offices still need to be
14:57 up here yes there will be jobs up here you're not going to be able to Service
15:01 Canada without employing any Canadians so that's actually not possible for an
15:05 IP anyway so yeah Brad seems to have
15:09 uh the same sort of wow this is kind of weird okay there we go the same sort of
15:13 negative feelings about Australia's Telos Australia does have similar
15:18 challenges to Canada large land mass
15:21 small sort of dense population centers
15:25 um but it still could be better I would be very happy there's no good data plans
15:30 here top speeds are 1 megabit yep bring
15:33 on the competition the Canadian Telos need to man up
15:37 indeed August 9 way to go you you did it
15:40 again and I'm in the mar I say boohoo and I'm in the maritimes
15:45 indeed you're you're brutal dude okay I know this is safe to click on you guys
15:50 are you guys may actually like love this here hold on I'm gonna see if I can find
15:54 one there you go so one of our viewers has acquired a Pikachu uh onesie so go
16:00 ahead and burn him on that as much as you want that's awesome but I think it's
16:05 awesome do you think newer fx8350 is will be worse overclockers now that the
16:10 best chips are being badged as 959s that is actually a very good question we
16:13 should probably talk about that later you want to throw that on the dock while I continue the splitz sound card for
16:19 hd558 anything from ASUS's Zonar line would be a great option you don't
16:23 necessarily need one with a beefy amp because that is not a high impedance
16:27 pair of headphones perhaps they should pull their fingers
16:30 out of their Collective butts I think is the word you were looking for instead of
16:34 complaining like spoiled kids yes indeed
16:39 what are my opinions on the new LG G2 I don't know I asked for an eval unit to
16:43 check out and sort of nothing ever happened so I don't really have much of an opinion I'm looking for a beast card
16:48 to hang any game 780 hard to go wrong
16:52 with 780 however uh one of our topics later on is the rumor that am's Hawaii
16:57 series gpus may be coming soon so stay
17:00 tuned for that uh was that an aperture science water bottle I saw you drinking
17:05 from yes indeed it was hydrogen monoxide
17:08 containment unit I think is the terminology you we're looking for not
17:12 water bottle so there you
17:15 go let's see if we've got anything more little bit more on the Twitter Blitz 4K
17:20 content needs at least 20 megabit per second down I'm all for more competition
17:24 help us get closer to the awesome I want indeed someone says uh refresh xplit and
17:31 what is that blue/green light on the Vengeance box behind
17:34 slick I got no
17:37 idea yeah I don't know all right um
17:41 4570s versus 8350 those are very
17:44 different chips um the 4570s is super
17:48 power efficient and the fx8350 is anything but super not yeah like super
17:53 like power like just super power man like
17:58 like pedal to the metal and efficiency to the winds so I guess decide what you
18:03 want and then bu that what do you think of deleting the chips I think it's kind
18:08 of risky um cool though seriously America has this stuff too Comcast
18:12 pretty much has its own region while Verizon doesn't come into my region it's
18:16 that whole territorial Monopoly things you know what I would love to
18:22 see guys from the states coming up to Canada and sort of pooping all over the
18:27 collusion that's going on here and I'd love to see guys from Canada go down to
18:31 the States and poop all over the collusion there would absolutely love to
18:36 see it because it's needed and I think eventually they're all going to just
18:40 collude with all of each other but at least initially we might see some
18:44 improvements which will maybe get us a little bit caught up in terms of them
18:48 fighting for any amount of time will probably help at least a little bit
18:52 you'll at least be able to sign up for like some kind of ridiculous deal and
18:56 you can try and hold on to in grandfather in Forever
18:59 yes that is the secret I mean went
19:03 honestly okay I'm putting on my uh my my old NCIX hat for a bit when new EG
19:08 launched in Canada like we were pooping
19:11 bricks like leading up to that launch every every day was another
19:19 conversation about sort of you know what are they going to do to to to to to
19:24 address sort of the differences in the Canadian Market because we knew things
19:27 they didn't in fact in fact NC still knows a whole lot of things I can look
19:31 at new eggs offering and I can go yeah they clearly haven't figured this out
19:35 yet about the way business Works in Canada and uh anyway we were we were
19:39 pooping bricks and that was scary and
19:42 when when new egg launched in Canada NCI
19:45 countered with one of the most aggressive sales in its history as a
19:49 company and customers don't always understand how much it costs to put on a
19:53 sale cuz it wasn't Black Friday it wasn't Boxing Day there weren't
19:57 manufacturer rebate that we were able to leverage it was
20:02 just okay well here's all of our money
20:05 just uh here you go customers we I guess we don't need this
20:09 anymore and uh and then new new eggs a
20:12 grand opening sale was pathetic it was like some outdated Phenom was like I
20:16 remember yours the Highlight I took some of that ncx money yeah I bet that was a
20:21 crazy sale I took a lot I think I built two computers for other people out of
20:25 that sale and took some stuff for myself yeah it was not even kidding oh it was
20:28 like bat crap crazy um so I don't remember where I was going with that but
20:33 uh yeah why don't we move on to our next
20:37 topic shall we what do you think we should do next maybe uh maybe a topic
20:42 little while sure uh I like that screen
20:45 one if you want to talk to because we should be getting Josh on here soon yeah
20:50 let's get Josh going soon where is the screen one Amazon working on paper white
20:54 oh okay that's your topic so you better uh on screen you better cover that one
20:58 all right so Amazon's working on a new screen technology this is an article
21:02 from quartz.com qz.com go ahead so
21:06 basically they're going to be putting LEDs horizontally along the panel and
21:11 then it'll bounce light along the whole
21:14 what do they call it a na Nano imprinted light guide it'll bounce it all the way
21:18 across and that will make the light hit the screen and then reflect out towards
21:22 you instead of the light shining directly at you it'll be reflection
21:27 which is more realistic when looking at paper books and it's supposed to be a
21:31 huge Improvement make it a lot better experience for the user much less ey
21:35 strain when you're reading for a long period of time and just yeah it's very
21:40 interesting technology no one else has done it and they're not going to
21:43 compromise on things like color depth and uh resolution or anything like that
21:48 so this is so we're still using a traditional LCD panel actually this is
21:53 something that a lot of people get confused about should I buy an LCD or an
21:58 LED they're the same thing as the back lighting that changes a liquid crystal
22:03 display is is available on a wide
22:06 variety of different forms and it's the most common flat panel display type
22:11 anything from your old calculator us as an LCD display it's monochrome it has no
22:16 backlight backlight about to talk about that in a moment anything up to even
22:20 sort of even the LCDs you might find in a rear projection TV a while ago back
22:25 when the larger LCD panels were too expensive to manufacture so they would
22:28 make small ones and then blow a massive backlight through them to project onto a
22:33 screen or something like an LCD panel that you might find at your typical
22:37 computer which would typically have cold cathode lights behind it fluorescent
22:42 lighting and now has moved to LED so the LCD panel itself is an image that
22:48 doesn't inherently emit any light that's where OLED is different because it emits
22:52 its own light you have to put some kind of a light source behind it so in this
22:58 way they're not actually putting it necessarily it's they can use that same
23:03 LCD panel Tech to to reflect light instead of shine light out from behind
23:08 it so so it's it's supposed to make it a much better experience it's called light
23:13 guide they're called well the the technolog is called light guide their screen is going to be called paper white
23:17 and Amazon has recently uh acquired a
23:21 like kind of a a company that's working on tablets so people are thinking that
23:25 instead of just making e-readers Amazon is going to take this Tech and make a
23:29 tablet and there's a lot behind this and it's in this um in this quartz web page
23:35 which will be on the doc which we will upload with the live stream later on
23:39 fascinating so Amazon is realizing that e-readers have gone down I think it's
23:43 like 12% in the past little while it's so dead like oh come on so so Amazon is
23:50 trying to respond to that by making a tablet which has gone up I think it's
23:53 like 78% in the last year or something like that oh yeah it's ludicrous I was
23:56 looking at did uh did diesel send the same article that was looking at I think
24:00 smartphone shipments and tablet shipments oh it's ridiculous yeah it's
24:04 like you're kind of looking at the numbers going like like how many how
24:08 many hundreds of millions of them does everyone not have one yet at this point
24:11 then um but there you go evidently not
24:15 um this actually ties into one of our other news articles which is maybe the
24:18 last one we'll do before we get Josh to join us um and that is the rumor that
24:23 Amazon is working on a game console so
24:27 an Android based game console I don't this isn't in the dock I don't know if you know about this not in the dock at
24:31 all yeah I know whatever man um so it's going to be so it would go head-to-head
24:36 with something like the Ouya which I think everyone's kind of in agreement on
24:41 was kind of a failure um the like things
24:44 have changed since it got released and they've made improvements but it's still
24:47 and this is the danger of kickstarting something based on specs that are
24:53 current and then how long it takes to really bring a product to Market I mean
24:56 something like NVIDIA Shield if NVIDIA were to wait like if they had
25:01 two business units internally Tegra and
25:04 shield and shield wasn't allowed to touch Tegra technology until it was
25:09 released publicly Shield would be months
25:13 away yeah because it takes so long to
25:16 bring an actual finished product to Market that's why someone like Ouya
25:20 never stood a chance because they're going to be working with off-the-shelf
25:24 components rather than working with what's coming next um so Ouya is sort of
25:30 a bad example cuz I think it just never really stood a chance but with someone
25:34 with the clout of Amazon banking on this
25:37 whole Android console thing with someone with the clout of NVIDIA banking on this
25:42 whole Android console concept thing with Shield which by the way our Shield is
25:47 coming coming on the way I haven't seen tracking yet but it's like confir the
25:52 way yeah this is this is interesting because more game developers are going
25:55 to come back on this because there's Shield people are going to want to
25:58 making games for Android because of shield and then when Amazon steps behind
26:03 something like this people are going to be want to making want to be making Android games because of Amazon's
26:07 console so one of the problems with Ura is everyone went emulators and then kind
26:11 of stopped because everyone just wanted emulators now people are going to be
26:16 actually interested in developing games for this platform which is really
26:19 important and of course for those of you who are going to sort of attack him
26:23 immediately for this of course developers were already interested in Android games but they were interested
26:27 in touch Android games that were meant to be played on ablet and a phone now
26:32 Android is moving forward to what someone like NVIDIA has been trying to
26:37 get towards since the first Tegra which
26:41 is we want console graphics on this thing because we ultimately and like
26:46 this is the scare this is the scariest part of it is like how how upset is
26:51 NVIDIA that AMD has every design win in the nextg console maybe not at all cuz
26:56 they're going for because the nextg console is going to be a 10-year device
27:00 you look at how quickly NVIDIA is ramping up the power or not just NVIDIA
27:04 I mean I'm I'm harping on NVIDIA because they're kind of in the thick of all this
27:08 but you look at how quickly the GPU power on these mobile devices is ramping
27:12 up we could be looking at another few years because we've already pretty much
27:16 caught up with Tegra 4 we've caught up to current gen console few more years
27:21 especially with yearly iterations we could have caught up to the next gen
27:24 consoles and with a device that doesn't have to have a connect play into it and
27:29 doesn't have to hook up to your TV and doesn't have to do whatever you don't
27:32 care about and maybe doesn't have the same DRM restrictions that you can rude
27:36 and you can really get into and you'll probably be able to record more easily
27:39 and all this other kind of stuff is the console dead that's actually a really
27:43 interesting statement and possible but we won't know for years but we won't
27:47 know for a few years maybe maybe guys like Microsoft are too hard to take down
27:53 I don't know mof are pretty big they're pretty
27:57 big but they're falling pretty hard pretty fast maybe that's why Microsoft
28:01 is banking on things that aren't necessarily gaming man maybe that's it
28:05 football all this other kind stuff TV convince me Android can't handle things
28:09 that aren't gaming is Seuss Cube anyone I I'm not fighting this battle you know
28:15 uh Google Chromecast anyone like a gen
28:19 five of that thing this going be incredible it's already incredible with
28:23 a Tegra a in it that like I don't know
28:26 anyway good good luck good luck PS P4 good luck Xbox one was nice knowing you
28:31 um why don't we go ahead and fire upcs here and see if Josh fractal has managed
28:36 to uh manage to get his headset figured
28:39 out did you manage to do a test call with him or oh boy I was I was zoned out
28:42 working on the dock when he first got it installed and then I went to invite him
28:46 and he had he had left at that point that was my bad all right you know what
28:49 we should just like take a uh oh ah Josh fractal online all right well here why
28:54 don't I let you kind of talk about that while I do a Twitter Blitz here and sure
28:58 of course they're on the same computer so that uhy oh wow wow shots shots fired
29:05 already this this this guy is hard to uh
29:09 it's kind of hard to deal with having him on our live stream here see if I can
29:14 uh see if I can get this to actually work I'm not that impressed with xsplit
29:18 today I don't know what's uh I don't know what's going on here but this is
29:22 this is some uh this is some serious business nonsense that is making my
29:28 difficult here so we're going to go ahead and recapture that screen region
29:32 that I've already captured a couple times and apparently oh that's weird
29:37 Razer comms does not get picked up by
29:41 xplit which actually makes
29:44 sense because a game streamer who's
29:47 using comms for voice communication wouldn't want their bloody xplit or
29:51 their uh their com stuff all over the place all right well at any rate
29:56 um let's go ahead and fire this fire
29:59 this baby up all right Josh so just click the
30:04 headset button in the top leftand corner there you go yo Josh how it goes bro oh
30:10 it's going how you doing pretty good I
30:14 noticed that you uh jacked up my style with your uh your guest picture
30:22 here and Josh is listening to the stream
30:25 not to razor com so he needs to go ahead and turn off his stream so he can talk
30:30 to us already did
30:33 man so you think I jacked your style you
30:37 hardcore jacked my style I was the first one to do a picture like this obviously
30:42 yeah except for Steve Jobs yeah except well except for that guy but I mean what
30:46 did he ever do that was he probably wasn't the first one to do it
30:50 anyway well yeah you never know but I mean he made it popular and sexy I mean
30:54 and he probably trademarked it so we're both going to get sued yeah yeah I
30:58 actually did worry about that like I wondered if it was okay for me to take a
31:02 picture of myself being all like glasses and maybe like the particular finger
31:06 orientation made it a curve design that they could patent yeah I think your
31:11 pinch zooming your chin in that one I'm not quite sure
31:14 though so how are you how's uh how's
31:17 fractal how's business how's the PC industry and how is it um do you cry
31:23 yourself to sleep at night because you don't still run your own company
31:26 biohazard I think it was called oh man we're starting Quick aren't we um first
31:31 of all I guess I'd like to be the cool one and say happy birthday to fatal flux
31:35 they've been posting over there in the comments so can you guys give him a shout out for me real quick shout out
31:40 happy birthday see there we go um no
31:43 work work has been good work has been busy uh you know obviously got back from
31:47 computex where we partied it out for a little while um I mean worked very hard
31:52 and then you know we got uh oh man it's
31:56 just if it's not one thing it's another but it's going good it's good it's good
32:00 yeah you guys have done some land present re presents recently oh so for
32:03 those of you who don't know this is Josh from fractal design formerly of
32:08 biohazard computers he is an Enthusiast
32:12 at heart this guy has done more hardcore stuff with PCS than I have done that is
32:18 for certain and he works as the what's your title like um lap dog to the
32:24 president of fractal or something like that North America well it was going to
32:28 just taller than lonus but that didn't really narrow it down at all I mean
32:31 that's a pretty broad category so yeah VP of marketing for North
32:36 America that that would be my official title all right so do you want to talk
32:41 fractal stuff first or do you want to just kind of jump into some of the uh I
32:45 know there was that one topic that you were chomping at the bit to talk to us
32:49 about do you want to get right into that yeah it just depends do you have a 7-second
32:53 delay you might want that wait what 7c DeLay So that you can
32:59 bleep out swear words geez come on oh
33:02 man no let's let's just let's just let's just do this thing all right so this I I
33:08 I sent this to Josh and I got back an email at like what is that like 4 in the
33:13 morning your time yeah it was about 4 in the morning yeah which was uh yeah oh
33:18 that's perfect sorry I'm so excited now
33:21 slick wasn't cced on the email so here we go there's an indie go go on that is
33:27 have must be the stupidest thing that I've ever seen on the internet this
33:31 video thumbnail right here should probably tell you pretty much everything
33:35 you need to know about this Indiegogo which is basically like two nerds and
33:41 guys you know no disrespect or anything but you're two nerds sitting on chairs
33:47 in the middle of a yard and I'm just going to skim through a little bit of
33:51 this Indiegogo and then we are just going to blast this thing between me
33:56 Josh and slick I don't think they're going to have any anus
34:01 left careful wording
34:05 man let me see if I have this written down right you guys have a 3.8 GHz
34:10 overclocked 6 core i7 processor 6 GB
34:14 video card 32 GB of RAM all booting from
34:18 a solid state drive I mean this would normally retail from about 34,000 if you
34:23 could even find it but you if you could find it oh man I got I'm starting early
34:28 here originally we were going to go cheaper than that some of the big
34:31 manufacturers are hard to deal with ,000 I'm fting back the rage right now the
34:35 machine we wanted to build so don't you think this could lead to awkward
34:39 conversations with Big Industry producers I mean you're undercutting their prices quite a bit awkward
34:44 conversations like how overpriced their computers are we're okay with that
34:49 conversation right well then I'm just trying to make sure you guys aren't
34:52 getting in over your head I mean there's a lot of big dogs out there I think
34:56 we've made our purpose clear right if this project gets off the
35:01 ground then we've essentially declared war on all companies that make gaming
35:05 computers and we're okay with that unlike most wars where it's a win lose
35:10 we're totally okay with either outcome on one hand we make super awesome
35:14 computers specifically for Gamers on the other hand we force the big comp to BR
35:18 pric down anyway so basically the summary guys is that these guys have an
35:23 Indiegogo actually here I'm going to go back to the Indiegogo so they've
35:26 actually got 4,000 contributors they're
35:29 basically saying that no no no they they have $4,000 $4,000 worth of
35:34 contributions they have 12 contributors so there's a comparison Matrix down here
35:38 that has alien wear and what they charge for a system and build it yourself and
35:42 what it costs and their innovision gaming which has a 3970x 32 gigs of RAM
35:47 a 7990 a 512 gig SSD and a final price
35:51 of $11,000 I don't know if they're deluded
35:58 or if they're just scammers one thing
36:01 I've wondered is I'm giving them as much insane degree of benefit of the doubt
36:05 that I can possibly imagine is that they have found someone online that is
36:09 claiming to be a distributor of these things and is claiming if you buy enough
36:14 and pay us up front we will give you all of this for this price so they decided
36:18 to make an Indiegogo planning to do it without enough research figure out that
36:21 this person is this camera tell me Josh as a a boutique gaming system builder
36:27 who you know really you know wasn't well
36:31 okay okay two things two things tell me this
36:35 Josh how much margin did you make selling gaming
36:39 PCs oh hell like 4,000% 4,000% because I
36:44 touched it I mean I had a picture of me on the side of it which that I mean right there that's just a bonus you know
36:49 it's a work of art but yeah the thing is
36:53 like you had to figure you know I was definitely a cayen boutique so our stuff
36:57 was you know very expensive our average box was like 8 to 12K so we had sizable
37:03 sizable margin and we were still at
37:06 like 30 40% like above Hardware but you also got
37:11 to realize when you're going into that level of Boutique the amount of work that goes into your overclocking at your
37:15 stress testing it it's like that's you know the labor comes into it yes so and
37:21 like so hold on I'm not talking gross margins I want to hear net margins after
37:25 you pay yourself labor which probably isn't for that great of a
37:30 salary oh I obviously it's worth so much more that's why I moved on to modeling
37:35 but you know after that dried up I came back to Tech you know so I would say you
37:40 know at the end of the day the problem was too is you know I I own the company
37:43 so I sted myself right so I was probably maybe between 10 and 15% 10 and 15%
37:50 sounds about right which is not big margin and that's a boutique so to put
37:55 that in perspective someone like an NC might be making about half of that so
37:59 for those of you watching right now who think there's like massive margin in
38:04 gaming computers there is but it isn't at the retailer level it isn't at the
38:09 distributor level and it's not at the system builder level it is at the
38:13 manufacturing level guys like ASUS guys
38:17 like Intel these are public companies all you have to do is look at their
38:21 financials you know how much they're making on it that means that if
38:25 something costs $1,000 to end user and
38:30 we know that the distributor price for it is you know
38:36 $950 the the retailer and the distributor didn't make that much on it
38:39 so Josh tell me this when you were a boutique Builder building systems that
38:44 might have cost thousands of dollars if you could even find them um how much did
38:50 it cost you to buy an extreme Edition uh let's see here uh it was
38:55 pretty straightforward because Intel locks their price pricing it per thousand unit orders right I mean it's
38:59 like the way that breaks down is like when a you know extreme Edition came out
39:03 back then you know they like thousand bucks and it's like you know
39:06 999 99 yeah and it was like that's per
39:10 thousand CPUs and I think people have this unrealistic view of you know how
39:15 much business a lot of system Builders are doing it's like a huge Boutique
39:18 system builder maybe doing like between
39:21 two and 400 systems a month you know and
39:24 it always killed me it's like people think you're getting like all this hard for dirt cheap and we'd always get these
39:29 things like uh I want an extreme Edition I want this I want that and I want this
39:33 but I want it for like half a retail because I know you guys get it cheap I'm like you know more than I do man because
39:38 certainly not getting it cheap and that's why we went that route is like to
39:41 make any margin on it you know you had to put some sort of spin on it you had
39:46 to do like overclocking liquid cooling stuff like that that people weren't
39:49 doing and you know people wonder oh how come there's always bloat wear and
39:53 crapware on PCS uh that's where Dell and HP and the big guys made all the money
39:57 that was all subsidized like they were selling half the time the hardware nearly at a loss making up the money on
40:03 like you know saman kicking them 20 bucks perst or shipping or the other
40:09 little things that they could do that really helped that or you know even
40:12 things like office trials that ship on your computer as enthusiasts we kind of
40:17 look at that and we go as if I'm going to activate it but someone like my
40:21 mother might actually do that and that's where the margin on that PC through an
40:25 affiliate code of all things like even someone like Acer has to make money
40:29 through like an affiliate program for Microsoft Office on the computer that
40:33 they shipped you yeah well it just it
40:36 drives me nuts that you're like so these guys are obviously Bladen idiots I mean
40:42 it's either so first of all let let's just start poking holes in this I don't
40:45 even know where to start because there's so much crap it's insane like okay first
40:49 of all you know we found if we buy in bulk we save gee that's a unique
40:54 business model that I don't know Walmart and everybody else had since the
40:57 beginning of time yeah I bet Newegg Newegg never figured that out about
41:02 buying in bulk and getting processors for cheaper yeah exactly it's like oh
41:06 I'm glad you guys cracked this one and no one else has been able to figure it out and then second of all it's like we
41:11 started looking we got these contacts in the industry it's like oh that inside
41:15 track that you developed after a week and a half on CS list you know I don't
41:18 know exactly where they think they got all this information and then the other
41:22 thing is it's like if we can crowdfund this if we can all order these
41:25 motherboards and these video cards it's like okay what motherboard am I getting
41:29 you know it's like you know okay what chipset what manufacturer I think that's
41:35 the least of the holes in this it's a big hole though but yeah I agree yeah
41:40 like what is it so okay like another reason why you know any system builder
41:44 has to make margin on it's like who's going to support the damn thing you know
41:48 it looks to me I'm G to give them the benefit of the bo the benefit of the
41:53 doubt I think that they're not scammers I think that they're
41:57 and what they think is that if they get
42:02 because look they're asking for a half a million doll goal and their campaign
42:08 only receive funds receives funds if they reach it by the deadline so it's
42:12 not one of those blatant scam ones where they're like yeah we're going to keep
42:15 the money regardless so I think that they naively think that if they manag to
42:22 put together 500 systems as a single order
42:27 that they'll be able to go to someone like Intel or EVGA or ASUS or whoever
42:33 else and say hey we're Big Shots drop
42:36 your pants in terms of pricing for us and uh you know $1,000 is our budget and
42:41 that's a lot of money because we're 15 and or however old they are and we think
42:46 whatever they think that $1,000 is a lot of money um and they they think that
42:51 they can achieve it that way and it's just not going to work Josh has built systems for people on an insane level
42:56 you've built system for people I've built systems for people none of us made
43:00 a ton of money off it the first thing that I say anytime someone posts on the
43:04 Forum that their plan is to start a business selling systems is do it for
43:09 fun it better be a side job and it better be entertaining yes I mean you
43:13 know the the overhead in it is ridiculous I mean aside from you know
43:17 just the standard business model it's like keeping up with high-end Hardware I
43:21 mean you know working in front of the curve is you know ridiculously time
43:26 consuming and yeah you know by the time like you know the extreme Edition drops
43:29 if you're one of the high-end guys it's like you're already working on the next
43:33 thing you know it's like by the time it actually comes to Market you're like okay that's old and you know I have to
43:37 agree I don't think these guys are scammers merely because a scam would be
43:42 put together a lot better than this I mean this is like so bad it's got to be
43:47 you know blatantly real like they genuinely think that they've stumbled
43:50 across something and that they're going to be able to help people out it's like
43:54 you know a scam would be more believable
43:58 I think that's how a scam works you know I I wonder about the four people who
44:03 have evidently bought it and they've got a lot of perks at different levels that
44:07 I'm also looking at going like are you guys bloody insane $25 for 256 gig USB
44:14 drive 250 bucks for $79.90 that was the
44:17 main one that got me yeah it's like okay on what planet when are you planning to
44:21 ship these systems like if they're planning to ship the system in 2016 and
44:26 they're just going to like eBay okay they're planning to ship them in October
44:29 but if the plan was to like troll eBay 2 years from now and dig up like you know
44:35 old extreme editions and stuff this might be doable well here's the thing if
44:39 they got all the parts right now two guys it would take them till October to build 500 system I mean do they ever
44:44 think about that it's like oh we're going to have to hire some people to build all these by October from watching
44:48 the video I think it's only the dude on the right who's building all of them
44:52 actually oh yeah the other gu the brains behind it there we go that's a solid
44:56 that's a solid 500 systems I can tell
44:59 you right now based on sort of an industry standard 2 to 3% defective rate
45:05 on any component within the first month they are going to get back so it
45:09 compounds right because you're building a system so let's say a system has eight
45:13 components in it for the sake of argument that means that the chances of
45:17 a system going defective within 30 days
45:21 unless they're burning them in I mean what about the power that it's going to
45:24 consume to burn in all these systems they're building 500 systems at the same
45:27 time anyway the uh the chance that one of them will be defective within 30 days
45:32 is probably at least 3 to 5% if they're
45:37 lucky as an inexperienced Builder never mind the ones that get damaged in
45:40 shipping tell me Josh how much do rmas
45:43 cost you as a system builder oh yeah well that's the thing you know it's
45:47 ridiculously expensive because say you sell the whole system you know the first
45:51 thing is it's like I think my video card di okay we'll send you new video card I
45:54 don't know how to fix it they want to send the whole system back so you know
45:58 assuming you can Sid step that it's the
46:01 other thing is if they're working with highend Hardware we had our largest failure rates on Enthusiast class
46:06 Hardware of course you because it's it's pushed so high you know and you would
46:10 think which they're probably thinking from a general mindset like oh this
46:13 video card it costs three times as much as a mainstream one it's going to be
46:16 perfect it's like no it's probably gonna be flaky you know and and if you're
46:20 going to take all these you're going to overclock them okay add to that that's the other thing you know you're looking
46:24 at your failure rate I assume these guys are going to get in try and overclock
46:28 because they'll read on that on some Forum somewhere hey I can do that all
46:31 you do is push the voltage as high as it goes and then just crank up the multiply
46:38 yeah ah yeah yeah I could rage on this
46:42 all night but you know if you want to move on I totally understand I just saw it and I was like really really this is
46:48 and the scariest thing is that they've got backers already like oh I know is it
46:53 like their mom's I'm hoping so I'm hoping so could be considering the money
46:58 will get back if they don't get it funded it definitely could be another
47:01 thing is I think okay the guy on the right I watched the video I didn't pay
47:05 way too much attention but the guy on the right I believe is the technical guy and the guy on the left I believe is the
47:09 business guy the guy on the left should be fired unfortunately the guy on the
47:13 left is going to have a really hard time finding a job if anyone Googles this
47:17 because his name is attached all over it and the guy on the right is going to
47:20 have a really time hard time finding a job because I believe his name is attached to this as well so if they try
47:25 to look for a job in 22 days from now when this fails it's going to be rough
47:30 if anyone Googles their names I think it I think you're giving them too much
47:33 credit for the size and momentum of this project I don't think anyone will ever
47:38 find it my thing is I thought it was I
47:42 it was better without the video like I watched the video and it got worse like
47:46 oh my God I see what you're trying to do but oh just fail left and right I should
47:52 tell them if they want to do a better pitch video next time they should reach
47:55 out to lonus Media Group and uh we should just just for laws we should just
48:00 produce the stupidest possible P you know what that would be kind of a fun
48:03 project like Indiegogo pitch video like
48:07 fake sort of thing I don't know if that's been overdone yet we kind of sort
48:11 of did it but not for jokes and not and
48:14 it wasn't fake but for um the the
48:18 kickstarter one that we did we did a Kickstarter ah it got no we didn't do
48:22 get any of the money we did a video that got posted on Kickstarter for that thing
48:26 where name Omni Omni trick om that got posted
48:30 on their Kart and it worked really well so I don't know okay so anyway there you
48:34 go you know what why don't we move into something else I'd like to do one topic
48:38 and in the meantime guys hit us on Twitter at liniste and let us know what
48:44 questions or comments you have for Josh remember former Boutique system builder
48:49 current VP of marketing at fractal design for North America always awesome
48:54 I'm sorry what and I'm always awesome and always awesome
48:57 and you're right I Googled his name and nothing came up yeah that that was that
49:02 was not going to be a thing um all right so Josh speaking of staying on the sort
49:07 of bleeding edge of CPU technology and all that crazy stuff here's an article
49:12 from wccf Tech I mean these guys I don't
49:17 well The credibility is sort of I mean they had an article about I think it was
49:21 like 12 or 16 core fxs not that long ago
49:25 and now there's one about how they're possibly abandoning FX processors apus
49:31 all the way what's your take on
49:35 this oh you know I don't know I mean it
49:39 gets to a point almost uh you know with
49:43 the big guys that you believe anything I mean things have gone back and forth so
49:47 much you know I know Apu is definitely a focus for AMD right now as far as like
49:52 abandoning FX I I don't see it being that drastic I
49:57 if if you look at the benchmarks you look at like a lot of the forums you would think that AMD is completely
50:02 screwed because they don't win all the benchmarks but like when you look at you
50:05 know the buying public like hey that's a cheap processor I'll get that for my
50:09 next build that'll do what I needed to do if I'm going to build you know my
50:13 mother an internet and email machine it's like okay fine yeah I'm gonna go
50:17 for that and I think that's and it's called the Xbox one yeah yeah exactly so
50:22 yeah I I don't know I don't put a lot of stock in it I mean it's that's the other
50:27 thing okay like what are the odds that website would have to scoop if that's what was really happening um you know
50:32 what I'm going to play devil's advocate here and I'm going to say I think they're right because they've been
50:37 falling behind I mean performance per watt opteron walked in and destroyed
50:43 everything AMD owned Fabs at the time they owned the technology they had some
50:48 serious business you I don't know if you want to
50:51 call it planning or luck or whatever word you want to use but Intel was basic
50:56 basically sitting on their butts and AMD came in and whooped their butts in the
50:59 server space trickled that technology down to the desktop and kick some butt
51:05 for a little while now they haven't done that in a
51:09 long time AMD is more focused on that
51:14 mainstream consumer and you look at what they see as the definition of an APU
51:20 according to AMD core I3 Core i5 and core i7
51:24 processors from Intel that onboard HD graphics are apus yeah so you look at
51:31 Intel where they still have dominance when it comes to zeeon when it comes to
51:37 extreme Edition when it comes to workstation grade processors they still
51:41 have dominance there and they're barely paying any attention to it for AMD is
51:46 the overhead just too much at this point to even bother are they better off to
51:51 just focus on the uh heterogeneous CPU
51:55 AR or like guess I can't call it a CPU any but a heterogeneous architecture
51:59 that uses a CPU and a graphics type of
52:04 processing in order to achieve what it needs to do and are they right to bank
52:09 on that in the future because is it possible that a
52:12 quadcore CPU with a very powerful
52:16 graphics processor on it would actually be able to outperform a more traditional
52:21 six core or 8 core CPU in the tasks that we need I mean
52:26 diesel the intern was complaining to me the other day that his workstation
52:30 doesn't support quicksync because now that technology that uses Intel's
52:34 onboard HD graphics to accelerate video encoding is starting to show up in the
52:39 professional tools and I'm like I thought I built you the beasted machine
52:44 with a six Core Extreme Edition and all this RAM and a Quadro and you want a
52:48 fraking consumer grade device because we're moving towards that being more
52:52 practical for the future and it it it makes sense and to be honest with them
52:57 starting to rake in money on the console side especially in the next upcoming
53:00 months and still bleeding money they they released a statement
53:05 recently about how they're going to be profitable soon yes they said next quarter maybe dropping certain segments
53:11 will help them be profitable soon well you know I think that part of it comes
53:14 into the fact that like certain product wings are just marketing Wings you know
53:19 I mean you look at Halo cards and stuff like that when you're looking at
53:23 Graphics it's like you know NVIDIA is not making their Bank on Titans in 780s
53:28 it's amazing how many consumers think they are but man guys they're not it
53:32 costs five times as much as a consumer grade card or you know a performance
53:36 card it's like yeah and you sell about what 5% of what you sell on the
53:40 mainstream so I think five% is very aggressive Prett aggressive yeah and and
53:45 and the thing is like so if you're going into like the nuclear arms race of
53:49 Graphics it makes sense because if you win that top rung then you get every rung below it so it's more of a
53:53 marketing investment than anything else and and when you look at largely what
53:59 the bread and butter what AMD probably sells right now yeah it it could make
54:03 sense to to I guess you know kill off the FX brand if they want to move more
54:07 towards an APU because it's also about application right I mean it's like if
54:11 you say what has a faster zero to 60 you know a Ferrari or Ford F-150 everyone's
54:16 going to say Ferrari it's like okay now do the same thing on a muddy road which
54:19 one has it faster 060 so it's all about how you're tasking it like you said with
54:24 diesel working with video it's like okay that might have more raw processing
54:28 power but for what I use it for this works better for me y yep although I'm
54:33 trying to get away with throwing a Kepler GPU in his system because he's
54:36 found a really cool plugin for Premier that uses Cuda to accelerate uh
54:41 outputting h264 using the onboard encoder but you know what he wants right
54:45 he wants a Titan doesn't he and he wants both he wants a qu and a Titan because
54:50 he diesel are you still here oh no he's not here today he can
54:55 use one for one thing and the other for the other thing he wants two graphics
54:59 cards no if he could do it no I don't
55:03 even care he's not getting two Titans in his workstation no he doesn't want two
55:06 Titans oh I know he wants qu yeah he
55:09 wants the quadro because he wants 10 bit color and then he wants the Titan for
55:14 Cuda he's not getting the Titan he can have like a 770 or something reason
55:19 you're so cheap you're so I know I'm like the worst person ever oh freaking
55:24 employees it's like why do I even need them someone's got to make you look good
55:29 someone's got to produce content while emails all right let's do a Twitter
55:33 Blitz here guys for Yosh uh we're gonna
55:37 focus on the questions for Yos um look
55:40 at that you an AR mid too it must be because of that pre-roll advertising
55:44 you're running online as Tech tips videos uh no it' probably be something
55:48 effective that we're doing all right so gregar says going for
55:54 the arc midar 2 air cooling bill should I go for af140 fans instead of the stock
55:59 fans great question Josh go go for
56:03 whatever you want I mean it comes down to again however you're going to use it
56:07 I mean to think that we can make one fan
56:10 that would be perfect for every solution I you could try uh you know obviously we
56:15 always have a aim towards silence and that's where a lot of our fans have come
56:20 from so if you're going for something a little bit more high-end if you want to
56:24 do what you want to do I mean that's my biggest thing I'm not going to try and
56:28 push into somebody into something I don't want all right fair enough and you guys
56:33 all know what I'll say buy all the Noctua nff 12s because I truly believe
56:37 it is the one- siiz fitall and that's why I stopped talking because I figured
56:41 you'd just chime in with that anyway so all right uh that's that same
56:46 question again will there be a successor to the core 1000 actually a case that I
56:51 personally really liked I unboxed it a long time ago and I was quite impressed
56:57 by the Innovative cost Savings of moving
57:00 the hard drive mounting to a single slab of metal as opposed to building a
57:04 complicated cage while offering other
57:08 advantages such as improved air flow through the front because you got your
57:11 freaking Drive cage out of the way and the fact that it still holds enough
57:14 Hardware are we going to see anything else like that yeah okay so then now I have to do
57:20 the typical disclaimer that they cannot talk about products that may or may not
57:24 be released in the near future blah blah blah but yeah if you look at the rest of
57:27 our product line I think you can kind of see what we tend to do I mean we take
57:31 you know we design our cases we take feedback from our customers and from our
57:34 fans and you know we help we use that to
57:38 help us build new products because I mean obviously that's who we're designing this stuff for at the end of
57:41 the day so I would say I wouldn't be
57:45 surprised at all if you saw something like that as far as time frame no I
57:49 don't know have I seen anything internally no I have not okay but the
57:52 core 1000's been incredibly popular for us and it makes you look tall so I mean
57:57 we got to keep it around for while thanks I mean the thing about the core 1000 is keeping it within that price
58:03 range I don't know how much really could be
58:07 improved we I mean you do get some of that right I mean it's like oh we could
58:11 add this we could add that the next thing you know it's like the core 1000
58:14 at $69.99 it's like okay that kind of just went the opposite direction of
58:18 where that case was at so and functionality wise I mean it it works
58:23 very well especially in its intended market so well you guys have so much
58:27 margin anyway that you should be able to sell core 1000s for 20 $20 or you know
58:32 $6.99 anyway so you know according to those yahoos on that yeah we we got a
58:37 lead on some guys that we're going to buy 500 of them so we just shifted all
58:41 of our pricing towards them should work out for both of us oh
58:45 terrible um lineus Tech and Josh do you think there will be an all-in-one
58:50 Boutique system made custom for some rich people I'm going to let you go
58:55 first an
58:58 allinone um yeah so when it comes back to the
59:03 boutique side of things you know I guess what I was when I was doing it was like
59:08 a cross between like a boutique and a modder you know because people back in
59:12 the day you know like when you were
59:16 young yeah exactly you know when you were making cases out of stone um it's
59:21 like people didn't come in the motherboard Trail like we had to do that
59:24 ourselves you know and walk up hillbo ways and all that sort of crap but I
59:27 mean legitimately it's like there weren't a whole lot of features like
59:31 that so you tried to tailored as much as
59:35 you could to your intended audience um
59:39 Allin ones get a little tricky though I mean there it's I don't know it's a very
59:44 difficult form factor to deal with it's very difficult
59:48 to basically the investment that goes
59:51 into designing an all-in-one necessitates that you sell a buttload of
59:56 them and yeah you basically you not got a proprietary design it's like why don't
60:00 you just design your own laptop is about where it's at pretty much so unless like
60:05 Steve wnc decides to build one like for
60:08 himself I I don't think it's likely to happen now I did see a Gigabyte
60:13 Prototype at I think it was computex CES
60:16 CES maybe it was at CES that was an all-in-one that allowed um aftermarket
60:21 graphics card upgrades with like standard PCI Express graphics cards they
60:25 had like a 580 or something stupid in it at the time and I was like who that's
60:29 kind of crazy um but other than that I haven't really seen much and I really
60:32 don't think anything like that will ever be wildly
60:37 successful yeah plus I mean the people are going to pay that amount of money
60:41 for something custom aren't at least in my experience when we were doing it they
60:45 weren't so much concerned about the form factor it was more here's what I wanted
60:49 to do or I want to trick it out and have
60:52 this custom paint job on it I want to have more of like a look to it but not
60:56 so much a form factor all right here we go Josh what did you major in in
61:02 college oh let's see here did I go to college other than modeling other than
61:08 modeling I'm major in that every day I mean I wake up first thing I do is I
61:13 mean well I'm awesome when I get out of bed I'm awesome when I go into bed yeah
61:16 pretty much awesome all day now in college believe it or not um and if you
61:20 watch the first live stream I on you got a little bit of hint at this I actually majored in criminology and criminal
61:25 justice and then I kind of accidentally pepper sprayed a bunch of
61:30 people which actually was was kind of related to my major so so that's all
61:36 good that's like me saying that I like
61:40 broke my mom's laptop and that's somehow related to my job you don't have a job
61:46 man I mean you just kind of sit there and then like you get all pouty when
61:49 someone argues with you and then you change the
61:53 subject I think we're going to move on to actually
61:56 I think time's up with our guest hey I have a job my job is
62:02 difficult reaching stuff on the top
62:06 shelf
62:09 wow oh I didn't hear your feelings today and he goes to live stream Doc and he
62:14 searches for a new dog let me pick something that dummy Josh doesn't know
62:18 anything about um what do you think of
62:22 veridium usage in um last for
62:31 ponies I don't want to talk anymore
62:34 he'll find oh oh slick you got to give it to me if I got lonus to be quiet! that
62:38 is like an epic Achi that's actually that is quite impressive we should
62:42 probably have a separate like lower third animation that like can put a
62:45 little crown on him that's like achievement unlocked do I get a badge
62:49 badge on the Forum oh silenced Linus and
62:53 it can be like one of the like the silence icons from video game like was
62:57 actually able to silence lonus badge award Forum we're actually going to be
63:01 adding Awards on our Forum speaking of me not having they're done they're
63:04 mostly done oh good work well it was uh
63:07 call out of windspeed I installed it he distributed which was a huge job so
63:12 thank you w speaking of fist bumps
63:15 EA is apparently getting sued for
63:18 shutting down the servers for games that they're not really running anymore so
63:23 this was posted on the Forum by ich chondo and the article is from Tech dirt
63:27 and basically what's happening is Justin
63:33 Basset claims he bought several sports themed games for Xbox 360 for about
63:38 $59.99 each relying on Electronic Arts representation that the games were
63:43 enabled for unlimited online play but the games were available for only a
63:47 limited time he says had the plaintiff known at the time he would not be able
63:51 to play the products online for a certain amount of time he would not have purchased the products or paid the price
63:55 he paid for the
63:58 products whose side are we on here
64:02 should they have to run servers forever should they not un Unlimited No not
64:08 necessarily unlimited but the amount of time that EA does run servers is not
64:12 very acceptable because it's a such incredibly short amount of time now that
64:17 this document didn't actually State anywhere specifically on it unless it's
64:21 in the huge 24 page something or other legal document one page might be
64:27 somewhere there exactly how long the particular games that he talking abouted
64:31 but it is very very short period of time what he's asking for I believe is a
64:34 minimum of 3 years which is not a lot to
64:37 ask for a game Halo Halo 1 was like quite a or
64:43 Halo 2 sorry it was quite a while like quite a long time and NES was supported
64:49 for 24 years like that's too much to ask
64:52 in my opinion you shouldn't ask for 24 years but you should also be able to ask
64:56 for more than one or two years and I think what they were also asking is that
65:01 EA should disclose what the window is
65:04 you can't say unlimited if it's going to be a year or two Josh what do you think
65:08 the solution is here yeah good question right I mean I do see both sides of it
65:12 like you know indefinite support is is not something that you can ask for but
65:16 then yeah getting short changed like uh well you know you bought that last
65:20 Tuesday and uh didn't sell the way we thought it would and we want to
65:24 reallocate that team so you have till next Thursday to play your game yeah you
65:28 know I don't know I don't know what the answer is but yeah I think like like
65:32 three years something like that I think that's feasible I mean if you look at the investment that you put into it like
65:36 what what do you expect the life cycle of a game to be especially with the
65:40 sports game where you know I guess replay is is a lot higher you know
65:44 you're not looking replay is incredibly High yeah so it's one of those things
65:48 where it's not like oh I beat the storyline or I'm tired of going out and
65:52 just you know doing raids or whatever else I don't know I mean but I can rest
65:57 assure whatever EA does you guys won't like it you know what I think the
66:02 solution that I would be happy with is
66:05 EA running their own servers for however long they want then
66:10 allowing other people to do so afterwards and allowing third party
66:13 servers to be hosted because that's the thing that kills me about it we've got a
66:16 lot of the twitch chat going like counter- strike still running
66:20 Battlefield Bad Company 2 is still running quake's still running all this
66:23 stuff's still running and it's like well yeah because the community is allowed to keep
66:28 it running that's the problem with EA's closed platform when it comes to server
66:33 hosting is that the game runs for as long as they kind of sit there and go
66:38 like yep and and this time it's not just an EA problem just this EA getting sued
66:43 so it got into our doc well that in EA is one of the worst offenders because
66:47 they're doing yearly releases on their titles I mean if blizzard had released
66:52 you know 16 starcrafts by now I'm willing to bet Starcraft 1 support would
66:56 have fallen away at some point whereas blizzard releases so few titles the
67:01 overhead is especially because a lot of their older library is old ass games
67:06 where the overhead is much lower so so there's all of that but EA backs
67:12 themselves into this corner where realistically if they were fully
67:15 supporting with a battl net like infrastructure every single sports game
67:19 they've ever made for a period of like 10
67:23 years would it really take that much though it wouldn't not take that much
67:28 because even things like security patches security patches you'd have to
67:31 have teams working on them that's a good point the security patches point is very
67:35 good but hosting the infrastructure I it's not going to take that much okay
67:38 that I don't think is the problem the problem is the overhead yeah yeah people
67:42 working on it stuff like that and that's interesting and yes I understand and
67:46 like I said EA is not at all the only company that has done this and had
67:51 problems with it but it's just obviously they're a huge company they're going to
67:54 come up and our do but yeah every week every week in other
67:59 news EA actually did something really good yeah I'll bring this one up but a a
68:06 little bit really good it's it's down a little bit from the other one it's still
68:11 topics I hate to bail but I gotta roll so all right thank you for joining us
68:15 Josh you've been a fantastic guest guys
68:19 that let us know in the twitch chat I'm actually going to start asking twitch
68:22 chat to rate all of our guests on a scale of 1 start with
68:28 Josh he's a model of course he's going to get highly rated models do not always
68:32 get highly rated when they are like you know sex toy models because those
68:38 pictures are gross dude what you didn't
68:41 know what kind of modeling Josh does evidentally neither did I but you
68:46 know I'm glad I found out just because just L it's just cuz you're good with
68:50 Photoshop I don't know what posters you got on your wall but you know I tell you
68:54 what the next time this that that I do the live stream because I will be back
68:58 in person and then I can turn around and look at your I guess homage to Tech
69:05 Syndicate behind you there on the wall hey it is it is always right outside the
69:09 frame at all times you know how Logan's always joking about he could potentially
69:13 not be wearing pants I could potentially have lewd photos of you Logan slick and
69:20 every other industry affiliate that I've ever talked to just out of frame
69:26 right here right here guys and I could
69:29 potentially not be wearing pants peace Josh thanks for joining us and we'll see
69:33 you again soon sounds cool I'll see you guys later thanks for having see you later joosh all
69:38 right so why don't we move on to our next topic which is that EA sucks a
69:42 little bit less a little a little bit less I don't give them that much credit
69:46 for this no neither do I that's why I keep on saying a little bit where is it
69:50 ah yes okay I couldn't find it because it was hiding it the the the the title
69:54 of the article was EA did something good which was I wasn't looking for that even
69:59 so so EA this was posted on the lineus tech tips Forum by user lightning thank
70:04 you very much for that EA raises
70:07 $188,000 for AIDS research more than 80
70:10 staffers took part in the event which is a 10 km fundraising wathon the money
70:14 will go to the San Francisco AIDS Foundation and 50 other Aid Service organizations throughout the bay area's
70:19 important to be involved etc etc etc and
70:25 yeah they they they they match the employees cont contributions okay that's
70:31 what they do so they match the employees contributions which totaled
70:35 $118,000 but you're EA yeah I mean to me this is kind of
70:41 like um you know I can't sorry I can't possibly say it's bad no because it's
70:46 not it's not a bad thing but it's like this doesn't make up for if if I don't I
70:50 don't know maybe this is a yearly thing whatever maybe this has just been going
70:54 on forever but if this was an attempt to like buy back some of the hate like dude
70:58 you're really far off you should have made a bigger splash I mean it's kind of
71:02 like uh it just seems kind of hollow like you know when a celebrity gets
71:07 diagnosed with some disease and then they donate millions of dollars to the
71:10 foundation that's trying to cure the yeah and then when it's something that
71:13 doesn't affect them personally it's just like uh they tweet about it or whatever
71:17 that to me is what this kind of feels like where it's like um yeah you could
71:21 have done more but I don't want to criticize because the reality of it is
71:25 you did thousands of still a very good thing so I'm I'm happy that EA did this
71:30 and if it's a yearly thing then it's just probably something that's been going on forever and it's not a huge
71:34 deal it's just a part of the company that's very cool if this was an attempt
71:37 to like make people like them more then dude you missed the mark by quite a bit
71:43 so I I would like to know more about the story but good job EA thank you for
71:47 donating to raids raids research raids
71:50 research no I think you're thinking of
71:54 Blizzard yeah I I meant to say AIDS research we're on
71:58 fire today we are on fire today all right let's talk about the lab grown
72:01 Burger because I totally think this is awesome so this actually is sort of in
72:07 line with the conversation that we were having about building an all-in-one
72:12 that's a like a boutique grade all-in-one computer when you only build
72:16 a couple of them something that is by definition Boutique it is extremely
72:20 expensive so this is an article from Digital Trends unsurprisingly says the
72:24 headline the $300,000 lab grown Burger so this was
72:30 made using um 3D printing technology as
72:35 well as simulated meat that was grown as
72:39 opposed to actually hold on no no this one does use 3D printing or doesn't I
72:42 know there's something else that's so blah blah yeah 3D printed lab grown
72:46 Burger um to build what should be
72:50 nutritionally and in theory taste-wise
72:53 beef yeah so it's it cost $331,900 to produce no one liked it and
73:01 it's kind of insane but here's the tweets from the uh the BBC
73:06 correspondent Hanny says she expected
73:09 texture to be softer it's close to meat but not juicy there's no fat in the
73:14 burger so tasters say not the right flavor both tasters want
73:18 ketchup the lack of fat marbles means that the lack of savory overindulgent
73:23 finish that we've come to en Joy that's a direct quote almost direct quote from
73:27 the article is is not there we like fat
73:31 we like juice and it's not F salt and fat and salt juice and this is a health
73:36 focused 3D printed Burger yeah I I'm
73:40 sure if they see another thing is if you look at the picture there's bun Patty
73:45 tomato lettuce yeah they probably could have dressed it up a little more mus they
73:50 could they could have put ketchup on it this is kind of a fun article I don't
73:54 know if you read this but they've got other ridiculously expensive foods that
73:57 you could have bought instead so 331 golden opulent Sundays which is like
74:02 expensive chocolates gold covered almonds chocolate truffled candies
74:06 fruits and topped with a 23 karat edible Gold Leaf you can get diamond encrusted
74:10 Sushi you could get 331,000 McDonald's
74:15 cheeseburgers which would kill
74:19 you I mean yeah whatever um all right
74:23 moving on to our next thing John carac joins Oculus as the CTO so we were
74:28 talking last week I think about how NVIDIA is making their own virtual
74:32 reality headset and some thoughts that
74:35 was like a weird prototype weird prototype thing and all that kind of stuff but some some interesting thoughts
74:39 came up people talking about maybe more mature companies were going to step in
74:44 and just blow up the field I saw a lot of comments about this in different
74:47 places and people were worried that Oculus might get run over Oculus would
74:51 Pioneer the whole thing and then just get completely run over John carac steps
74:55 Everything Changes Oculus Rift is now that mature company it like doesn't
75:00 matter anymore The credibility is there just I mean like okay when you're when
75:05 you build the Prototype that works your credibility goes like this oh when valve
75:10 is all like got their panties all wet about what you're doing your credibility
75:13 goes like this John karmac is one of those guys that could actually sit at a
75:18 round table with someone like Gabe Newell and talk shop so when he legit
75:24 joins your company as the CTO then your
75:28 credibility goes like this you get one of those big iterations of credibility
75:31 that he was just talking about it's just huge so good for them what's great about
75:35 him is he's one of those guys that again this is The credibility conversation
75:39 where it goes beyond his technical skill because a lot of uh truly Visionary guys
75:45 I mean I think Steve wnc's a great example which will help segue into our
75:49 next topic um where they're Visionaries
75:52 and they Geniuses and they're brilliant but I mean put them in front of a camera
75:56 or you try to like talk to them and you're kind of
75:59 like they can be I mean and was is a lot better particularly these days I mean
76:04 his Big Bang Theory appearance was awesome yeah
76:07 but having someone who's as eloquent as
76:10 John carac he's a great interviewee he's fantastic I mean's amazing like he's so
76:16 good I mean we could just sort of like you know wank off John karmac for the
76:21 rest of this show I think and and both
76:25 of us would enjoy it I don't know that he would John if you're watching I'm sorry for saying that that was totally
76:29 inappropriate but you're awesome and uh very excited that he's now the CTO of
76:34 oculus rift because I'm super stoked to get it everyone else is super stoked to
76:37 get it and this just makes me much more confident the I mean future of gaming
76:41 guys future of gaming seriously that's uh extremely exciting speaking of which
76:45 I wanted to bring up something that I didn't have a chance to talk about last
76:48 week oh I said I was going to segue into uh into the uh the jobs movie is this
76:54 better than that I think maybe okay let's do it do it um our our old things
76:59 that people tried to make and fail that brutally now becoming things that make
77:04 tons of sense and everyone super excited about like the Power Glove turning into
77:07 peragine Virtual Boy turning into Oculus R I never replied to an email from
77:12 paragan you probably should crap they were gonna no cuz I reached out to them
77:17 about getting a sample so that we could uh so we could check it out and showcase it I'm going to email you right now so
77:22 that you remember to do that later shoot cuz I think he said said no initially
77:25 cuz they didn't have any they didn't have any budget for it or something like that but then I think he reached out to
77:30 me again so for those of you guys who haven't heard of it the paragan glove is
77:35 I'm just going to load it up here the paragan home let's go ahead and fire
77:39 this up all right so there talk about Power Glove versus paragan so Power
77:43 Glove is they're actually very different but the idea of having a controller stra
77:48 to your hand and or ARM in some way is still inherent in peragine so what you
77:52 do is you have your controlling thumb and you touch different points on your
77:55 fingers to the contacts on your um on your thumb so there's contacts along
78:00 each one of your fingers and you touch it to your thumb and then those are
78:03 bound to buttons on your keyboard so you can essentially play games with just
78:06 your hand which is interesting enables
78:10 different my favorite thing about it is if you have special disabilities it can
78:14 help you a lot now you tried it you didn't like it that much initially I
78:18 tried it I didn't like it that much initially because I what I was trying to
78:21 do was and one of the problems is certain pieces of Hardware will not demo
78:26 well you have to use it for a while to
78:29 actually get used to it so I sit down try and play DotA with this thing and
78:32 I'm trying to quickly press all the buttons by tapping my fingers together
78:36 and it just felt weird because my natural muscle memory is not to tap my
78:42 fingers together when I when I want to press uh qw R right I'm not tapping my
78:46 fingers together so I'd run up to someone to fight and then instinctively my hand would like go down to try and
78:51 like tap on the keyboard and i' be like no wait I have to press and then i' have
78:54 to remember like which one was which and it it wasn't twitch and it wasn't
78:58 instinctive but if you play with it for a while it could be twitch and
79:02 instinctive so I would be interested to play with it for like a day instead of a
79:06 five minute demo that I got at PS a few years back right so I didn't like it and
79:11 I don't necessarily think you could be as fast because on a keyboard all your
79:14 fingers will be resting on those keys but okay hold on hold on think about this for a minute
79:19 okay um
79:24 Oculus combining I know exactly paragan and then something like Lea frog
79:31 yep combining everything together all
79:34 these Technologies coming in at one is going to make them all stronger Omni
79:38 needs other things to be awesome Oculus doesn't necessarily need other things to
79:42 be awesome but raises up so much when you add other things to it so I don't
79:46 know it could no
79:50 way so for the fourth time we are attemp
79:54 in to record the back half of this show
79:58 which I think is actually going to
80:03 kill me and or slick at some point here
80:07 because between the technical difficulties with the initial stream and
80:11 then the fact that we thought we were recording and then we weren't and then
80:16 we thought we were recording again and then we weren't because I think that was
80:19 my bad that time cuz I think I clicked live stream and our internet is still
80:23 down um okay and then live stream usually does both so you thought it
80:27 would be fine so I like I was on autopilot I very rarely used the local
80:31 record feature because oh cuz this is supposed to be a
80:35 live show but it's not
80:39 apparently back to Ashton Kutcher back to Ashton Kutcher anyway we left off
80:43 with the paragan where the clip just kind of dies and basically we're excited
80:48 because paragan um is a glove that you
80:51 can use to interact with your computer and with not a keyboard board and that
80:55 plus Leap Motion is cool and that plus Oculus is cool and the way it all
80:59 integrates is going to be cool things that aren't cool Ashton cutcher I'm
81:03 sorry but punct wasn't cool 70 show was
81:06 cool but dude that was an awful long time ago and this is a Gizmodo article
81:11 on was basically saying in an email
81:14 that's kind of not how it happened yeah
81:18 so so I I want to jump in right away on
81:22 something that it took me a while to remember before but in spite of the fact
81:25 that it's in your notes for this topic you said it the first time you said it
81:29 the second time forgot the third time and then the fourth time I'm opening
81:33 with it you're opening with it okay hit me go watch Pirates of Silicone Valley
81:38 it's an amazing movie and is a really good accurate portrayal of the beginning
81:42 of both Microsoft and Apple so if you want all the starting of it go back
81:46 watch that movie it's an older movie it's still really good this has some
81:50 Hollywood going on and I mean there's
81:53 like this scene in an underground parking lot where jobs is like was don't
81:58 you see it's the future of computing
82:01 holy crap man oh my God we're going to change the world and from W's sort of
82:07 interpretation he seems to be a pretty grounded guy with no real incentive to
82:12 lie about things at this point not
82:15 close we never had such interaction and roles I'm not even sure what it's
82:20 getting at personalities are very wrong although
82:24 mine is closer don't forget that my purpose was
82:28 inspired by the values of The Homebrew Computer Club so these ideas that of
82:36 computers affecting Society didn't come from jobs they came from The Homebrew
82:40 Computer Club they were widely spoken about there I'm paraphrasing Steve Jobs
82:44 came back from Oregon came to a club meeting and didn't start talking about
82:48 the great social impact his idea was to make a $20 PC board and sell it for $40
82:52 to help people at the club build the computer he wanted to make some money
82:55 yes and help people build computers the lofty talk came much further down the
82:58 road and I never looked like a professional we were both kids our
83:02 relationship was so different than what was portrayed I'm embarrassed but if the
83:06 movie is fun and entertaining all the better in fact looking at the portrayal
83:10 of jobs in the movie uh based on what I've read in the biography about him
83:15 basically being a smelly hippie that you wouldn't want like anywhere near your
83:19 furniture or children like it it really
83:23 seems like they've go watch Pirates of Silicon Valley okay
83:28 there now we've done that topic let's move on to the next one that we're doing
83:31 for the bloody fourth time HTC1 Max I
83:34 can't even remember is this was this did we do this before I think we did this
83:38 before before the the bad things okay we did the felony thing before the bad
83:42 things the the the console thing yeah console optimizations yes John karmac
83:49 again I swear we could talk about how awesome John karmac is like forever we
83:53 we just did we just we have we have now talked about how awesome John carac is
83:58 forever all day we've been talking about John carac you're awesome um so
84:02 basically the performance boosts oh this
84:06 was posted on the Forum by Tech fanatic Matt higgy has come out and said the
84:10 performance boosts that they are achieving by optimizing their game for
84:16 multicore in order to Port it to the PlayStation 4 are already going to be
84:21 able to affect the optimization of the PC
84:24 version and Planet Side 2 is nothing if not a poorly optimized single thread
84:31 single thread only game so the thing
84:36 about PS4 and Xbox One is that they might have eight core CPUs but man they
84:40 are not powerful cores no they are like they are like if you know a vegetarian
84:46 had bulimia and wasn't taking the proper supplements like dude they've got no
84:50 energy because they're you know not
84:53 suppl they don't have a correct diet and they're not keeping their food I don't
84:58 know where I'm going with this I'm tired
85:01 it has actually been a phenomenally long day and I didn't sleep till like 5:30
85:04 last night he's had a different way of describing those cores every single time
85:09 we've done this and that was the best one I think by best You' being worst
85:14 yeah anyway the cores aren't very powerful so for game developers to be
85:19 able to leverage that power we're talking we we're talking cell processor
85:23 all over again where it's that was way Ahad of time and no one was able to
85:27 optimize it different architecture and there was a buch ofes and blah blah blah
85:30 blah blah now they x86 so it's like guys
85:34 get your act together optimize this
85:37 stuff and the PC will benefit as well which is great because developers could
85:41 rely on the PC to have these Uber single
85:45 thread cores and that's on both the Intel and AMD side but these more mobile
85:49 optimized low power consumption Apu chips in these consoles aren't able to
85:53 do it it's going be great because games like Planet Side had no real intention
85:57 of updating the performance of their game who really cares they're going to
86:00 maybe runs well enough yeah it's fine people know how much they need to run
86:04 Planet Side so now they're optimizing it for the console and now it's just going
86:08 to make everything better it's not a bad thing at all speaking of optimization
86:12 wait did we talk about Cuda is doomed I have no idea I have no idea what we
86:16 talked about anyway icho on the Forum skip this if we've already talked about
86:20 it I don't I don't know um so
86:26 oh man basically AMD shots fired Ron Taylor on apus gaming in the end of Cuda
86:31 basically the summary is Cuda is a closed standard Gamers like what's this
86:37 this quote is so awesome just fires
86:40 everything all the bullets F okay so he's talking about FX but because
86:45 there's a parallel being drawn between FX and Cuda and that they're both close
86:48 standards unlike opencl FX is an utter
86:51 failure because it's proprietary nobody want wants it you don't want it I don't
86:56 want it Gamers don't want it analysts don't want
87:00 it so I think that pretty much uh that
87:03 pretty much says it I mean the thing about fiz X is that in the very
87:07 beginning it was much more terrible than it is now it was like this weird
87:11 dedicated card that ran in a PCI slot of all things I me nobody really bought it
87:16 yeah if anyone needed to sort of you know work through their mind that it
87:20 wasn't doing anything the fact that it ran in a PCI slot meant that there
87:25 probably wasn't much data transfer going on here so it probably wasn't I mean
87:28 that's an oversimplification it could be doing a lot of work on its side and then
87:32 spitting out results that don't require much bandwidth but I'm just I'm kind of
87:35 making fun of it um and then it got better when NVIDIA acquired them and now
87:39 anyone with an NVIDIA graphics card was able to run physx accelerated Cuda
87:44 accelerated physx all that stuff but at the end of the day I think that I think
87:48 he's right I think Open Standards like open CL are going to be the future I
87:52 mean you look at even companies like Adobe what a major win that was CS6
87:56 running Cuda that might have just won it for them because okay open platforms and
88:00 computers go together like nothing ever before people love open platforms on
88:04 computers I trying to find a different way to say this than every single other
88:07 time I've said it um you don't have to it's okay just go over bait them and
88:11 they'll bear with it there there's paid which people aren't totally into on
88:15 computers then there's free which is kind of a big deal then there's open
88:18 which is on a completely different platform because the second you bring out open everyone can optimize it for
88:23 their own use and they can either deliver it for free or they can charge
88:26 money or they can charge money for it depending on how they how they augment
88:29 it but when someone like Adobe backs it you know that adobe is going to probably
88:34 be contributing in some way yes and I mean the thing is that it's not like
88:39 cuda's dead no like it's certainly not dead today I mean look at something like
88:43 the Titan super computer any kind of specialized application where you're
88:48 really like specialized hardware and specialized programming languages may
88:52 actually be optimal for an like that where you are really dialing
88:57 down into the hardware to get the absolute most out of it and you're
89:00 purpose building a single machine and purpose building software to run on it
89:04 but then again maybe that's what Ron's talking about is maybe we shouldn't
89:08 purpose build software in purpose bu because at the same time if if you take
89:12 an open platform you can you can hack into it and change things to make it
89:16 purpose buil yes so so open is open's
89:20 great and that's basically what he's saying so there there you go yet another
89:25 thing that uh that we something talked about before but now we're talking about
89:30 again um did we talk about 3D NE flash yet ah
89:36 yes no we didn't okay Samsung changing the SSD game again with 3D vertical Nan
89:43 flash this is fantastic because Samsung's already using really
89:48 Innovative strategies to bring more performance to SSD so things like RAM
89:52 caching with their rapid technology Tech ology as well as that weird mode I don't
89:57 even remember what they call it but basically they're emulating SLC flash
90:02 operation on TLC Flash in order to get a
90:05 performance boost that's temporary but very very real and something that many
90:10 users will be able to realize a lot of the time definely now they're driving
90:14 capacity what how many layers is this 24 I believe so there it is uh yes 24
90:19 layers vertically they can stack 24 layers of traditional styled flash this
90:23 was posted by M on the Forum by the way on top of each other's vertically to
90:27 just oh your capacities are going to explode so we're going to be talking
90:30 about smartphones that instead of coming in 16 32 and 64 gig like they have been
90:37 since the dawn of bloody time we might be talking about 384 gig
90:42 smartphone a yeah I mean come on like iPad 1 had the same capacities available
90:47 as iPad 4 which is brutal and you look at Apple they actually are trying to
90:53 drive things forward look launched IP after IP 3 we we can
90:59 build so here it is does it bone people
91:02 who just bought an iPad 3 a little bit oh I don't know maybe but they don't
91:06 care here's a higher resolution display because we can here's a more faster
91:09 processor because we can and I think if they could deliver higher capacities
91:13 while maintaining their lucrative product profit margins they would this
91:17 will enable it so yay stacking stuff find another topic go
91:23 go uh what have we not talked about NVIDIA tablet Market thing yes yay
91:29 NVIDIA diving into tablets Beyond NVIDIA Shield which hopefully ours is going to
91:33 arrive soon so what we were discussing was how Microsoft tried to dive into
91:37 tablets and it was a very very bad thing very very bad thing and how while this
91:42 is dangerous and I think jumping into the tablet game at this point in time is
91:45 borderline suicidal posted by telha on the Forum by the way there's a Maximum
91:49 PC article that we're going to go to go ahead y um it's it's borderline suicide
91:54 but if someone's going to do it it might as well be NVIDIA because they're going to gain some experience from their
91:58 shield and they're going to get more developers looking into building that
92:02 style of Android game not necessarily touchcreen Android game and then they're
92:05 going to come up with a tablet and that tablet will probably like hear
92:10 controllers whatnot like it's it's going to be Tegra 5 it's going to be gaming
92:14 and I mean you look at what they're doing on the software side as well it's
92:17 more than just the hardware with these guys lately and I mean that's what and
92:21 it's funny because that uh that article has a link or has a picture of the Razor
92:26 Edge and that's another company that's trying to differentiate based on not
92:31 only Hardware but also software so you look at what they're doing with comms
92:35 which by the way guys we are powered by Razer comms download it here if you
92:39 haven't already try it out it's free it's voice chat software that doesn't
92:43 require any kind of server or any kind of complicated setup and anyway that's
92:46 what NVIDIA is doing Shadow play GeForce experience it's more than just FPS now
92:51 yeah yeah and the built-in h264 encod in
92:54 Kepler may be a big part of this
92:58 upcoming tablet I fully expect them you you said that was a picture of the razor
93:01 tablet and yeah but I fully expect them to have some type of controllers oh yeah
93:05 I wouldn't be surprised at all probably similar to that style or something like
93:08 that style and I mean with h264 and code like with Shield you're able to use a
93:13 Kepler grade GPU to push to it and it can decode it yeah but this is an older
93:18 architecture now at this point whereas if we have a Kepler based on the tablet
93:22 now all of a sudden stand like Wy that
93:25 are I mean come on who's put up your hand if you actually used YY at some
93:31 point other than at work no so I'm not going to put up my hand so okay Wii uh
93:36 you know you look at devices like chomecast we might be looking at with
93:40 built-in hardware and coding ways to stream High much higher bit rate much
93:45 higher quality video streams with dumb
93:48 dongles on the other end and by the time that rolls around we might have a Next
93:52 Generation CH caster something like that that's per that's a perfect match for it
93:56 yep definitely definitely extremely exciting so if anyone's going to pull it
94:00 off probably NVIDIA probably NVIDIA so it's still crazy yeah it's still insane
94:05 but they could do it which is cool um was that all we did before build
94:11 doogs or did we do more uh we had the radon 9970 rumors so this is the
94:17 volcanic islands series of gpus which is
94:20 sort of appropriate because per meru
94:23 post on the Forum the rumor is the 9970 will have a 300 wat TDP which actually
94:30 if that's true I can't imagine that's true that should exceed the PCI Express
94:33 standard I believe I thought it was 275 Max that's interesting I didn't even
94:38 think about that I could be wrong I could be wrong but anyway huge TDP this
94:43 is the rumored card uh the code name is Hawaii there's also a rumor that they're
94:47 going to launch it in Hawaii at like a special press event that would be kind
94:51 of cool um prepare your water blocks Oh
94:55 serious post here I we've talked a few times about how
94:59 water cooling not being as big of a deal as it was before on graphics cards it's
95:03 becoming a bigger deal hello yeah exactly Titan this speaking of Titan the
95:08 rumored performance is that it'll be around 5% faster than Titan so while we
95:14 can't confirm nor deny the rumors because we actually don't know there's
95:18 oh wait there's a lot of stuff in here about specs so they're claiming 1 gigz
95:22 clock speeds with 4 th Shader units um
95:25 effective memory clock of anywhere from 6 GHz to 6 7 GHz 52 bit bus 4 gigs of
95:31 ddr5 gddr5 memory um I guess it's kind of in line
95:37 with even though we can't confirm or deny kind of in line with what AMD's
95:42 been doing it makes sense they slapped pricing on
95:46 $79.90 got that driver out pricing I don't know if you saw netlink but there
95:50 was a 7970 for like 329
95:53 which is pretty cheap so it is pretty cheap yeah it's looking like they're
95:57 adjusting pricing in their product stack to make room for these before they even
96:01 arrive so yeah it could be a very exciting time
96:06 for graphics cards over the next little bit here graphics cards have been really exciting for a little bit and AMD has
96:12 been kind of doing things a little differently like coming out and saying
96:16 no new gpus this year and then just and
96:19 then releasing one like immediately with the 7790 I was a different architecture and
96:25 then like it's like September which is
96:29 last time I checked in the same calendar year as like February when they were
96:34 saying this I says pardon so guys when does
96:42 your year start Yo Dogs I heard you like
96:46 sort of throwing everyone off a cliff in
96:50 terms of how closely they're able to follow along with what you're doing
96:53 doing exactly over there I mean I guess it's good because you know you don't
96:57 want your competitor getting the drop on you or anything like that but uh which
97:02 normally it seems like everyone does but in this case not necessarily yep yep yep
97:07 all right why don't we tackle one more topic before we do build of the week and
97:10 then we can uh sign off for the fourth bloody time on this uh here why don't we
97:16 do something that we skipped last time Microsoft digs more holes for its
97:21 console okay so I got find this give me one
97:27 second those movies crashed as badly with the fourth installment as the X I
97:32 wish it was the fourth Xbox wouldn't that be great I love Harrison Ford and Indiana
97:38 Jones as much as anyone but speaking of which Harrison Ford is apparently going
97:43 to be in the new Expendables movie really yeah Bruce Willis was asking for
97:47 a million dollar a day they offered him 3 million for 4 days and he held out and
97:54 uh Stallone replaced him within 72 hours
97:57 with on his Twitter he was like a better actor a nicer guy and then he said
98:03 something on Twitter about how like being lazy and greedy is a bad career
98:07 move or something like that so well this is supposed to the whole idea of
98:10 Expendables was they were just screwing around was it not the first movie was
98:14 terrible so they couldn't have possibly been trying to make a serious movie it
98:18 was supposed to be just like everyone getting back together we're kind of
98:21 getting older now it's kind of the end of our careers just make a movie and have fun that's I I read that and then
98:26 here we are three movies into the who
98:29 cares whatever I refused to watch the second one based on how terrible the
98:33 first one was I don't think it's for you I think they're having fun on their
98:38 own oh well whatever um dlf posts on the
98:42 Forum this is uh this is a an article from one hit pixel oh this is just
98:49 terrible cuz game streaming is such a big thing and you look at companies like
98:54 twitch where we stream our where we do our live stream and everyone's trying to
98:58 figure out how to cash in on game streaming Microsoft apparently thinks
99:02 the method to cash in is going to be to require users to pay for Xbox Live uh
99:09 gold one thing is people are probably going to be streaming multiplayer games
99:13 just to be completely honest and if you're playing a multiplayer game you have Xbox Gold anyways okay that much is
99:17 true I'm gonna I'm gonna play Devil's although I will okay although I will
99:22 never ever mark my words sign up for a
99:25 subscription based server it's not g to happen so
99:30 you're not so I won't sign up for a pay permon MMO I'm not a console player I
99:36 know but I mean even on PC I won't sign up for a pay permon MMO I'm not going to
99:41 I don't support that model it's a I don't like that model freeo play is
99:46 getting kind of gross lately though dedicated servers dedicated servers are
99:49 awesome dedicated servers are what I want and no I I don't don't I don't
99:53 think free to play is necessarily the right way to go either because there's a
99:57 lot of pay to win and there's a lot of uh what I think it was Logan that was
100:01 talking about just sort of the general level of trolling stupid itude that goes
100:06 on with with freeo play no barrier of Entry I think is not necessarily great
100:10 either but yeah anyway
100:14 so I mean and imagining paying for an
100:17 Xbox Live gold membership to me is like if you guys all just refused to pay for
100:22 it it would go away it would would be free they do need people to buy the
100:25 consoles and they do need people to buy the games but everyone just kind of
100:28 keeps doing it sry go ahead I'm just at the same time Sony had it free people
100:33 didn't like it so to BU the they had to
100:36 make it paid so they could fund it more had to is an awfully strong way two to
100:41 keep shareholders happy and if they didn't their company could
100:44 close when you're a publicly traded company you have to do certain things
100:48 okay fine um and and as now this is just
100:51 something that I scraped up right before the stream started so please correct me
100:54 if I'm wrong in the comments but as far as I know you can record but not
100:58 necessarily upload through the PlayStation if you don't have PlayStation Plus or whatever it's called
101:03 okay but it makes a ton of sense that you could just take that file and upload
101:07 it off your computer oh wait no it says right here Sony's share feature for
101:11 PlayStation 4 allows users to record and upload up to 15 minutes of footage and
101:14 is not restricted to PlayStation Plus users record and upload okay yeah so
101:18 Microsoft says uh allows gold numbers to record up to 5 minutes of in-game
101:22 footage for editing and upload to the Xbox Live service that's that's a thing
101:26 too they can apparently edit it on the Xbox I don't think you can edit why
101:30 would you want us why would what what who Who records a five minute recording
101:34 and then edits it on their XBox I mean this is how out of touch Microsoft is
101:39 yep I agree I saw that and I was like oh cool you can edit it terribly like it's
101:44 just going to suck all you're going to be doing is cutting it and it won't be
101:47 that great I mean looking at how much worse they managed to make Windows Live Movie Maker than the original Windows
101:52 Movie Maker the original Windows Movie Maker as far as I have been told wasn't
101:55 even that bad no it wasn't that bad yeah Windows Live Movie Maker isn't even that
101:59 bad but it isn't as good as the old one yeah yeah so
102:03 anyway brutal we should all just go back to that awesome game 3D Movie Maker that
102:09 thing was awesome you're too you're too young for that game but it was oh man it
102:12 was awesome uh I wasn't actually I can't believe it's 5 minutes anyway I still
102:16 don't think this is going to prevent you from capturing via HDMI using something
102:20 like an a live gamer portable or something like that my understanding is
102:25 Microsoft hasn't said that they're going to be enabling htcp whereas I believe
102:30 Sony is still holding to the hdcp enabled outputs on PS4 just like they
102:34 did with PS3 so it's not like Sony is perfect in all of this by any stretch of
102:39 the imagination all right all
102:42 right now to build logs we keep going we have a few more topics yeah we do kind
102:46 of have a few more CBS blocks online subscribers from watching their con
102:50 content if they use Time Warner they're big is like totally not okay nope to to
102:56 put it in sort of the most this is posted on the Forum by E chondo
103:01 ho crap in response to time order
103:05 cutting off access to CBS in a few major markets today CBS has retaliated Against
103:09 Time Warner Internet subscribers by blocking access to popular CBS shows
103:14 currently available to watch on cbs.com
103:17 this my friends is an abuse of power and
103:21 is nothing to do with the way that the internet should be working Internet
103:26 Service Pro I mean we're not even talking traffic shaping anymore we're
103:30 talking about outright that's my competitor and I want people who support
103:35 my competitor to be punished punishing your customers or anyone else's
103:41 customers punishing the customer is
103:44 it I'm just mad
103:48 basically screwing over your customer in anyway screwing over anyone in any way
103:51 should not be allowed and this is directly screwing over someone that is feeding you money it's not okay and
103:58 just time order representatives are calling out cbs's move as an abuse of
104:02 power specifically stating CBS has shown an utter lack of regard for consumers by
104:07 blocking Time Warner Cables customers including our high-speed data only
104:10 customers so not even a cable TV competitor from accessing the shows on
104:16 their free website CPS enjoys the privilege of using public owned Airwaves
104:21 to deliver their programming they should not be allowed to abuse that
104:24 privilege it's getting real y'all everything with different isps is
104:30 getting nuts right now I hope that they you know what I almost hope that they
104:35 abuse it that they abuse their power as much as they possibly can get away with
104:40 they get crushed so that they get crushed so that there is so that the
104:43 government can't just kind of you know
104:47 be like well it's not that bad yet we're
104:50 just G just crush them you know what I
104:53 hope that it gets to the point where a
104:57 third of the subscribers in the US can't access a third of the other websites
105:02 because it's not being served over someone's pipe or someone's butt hurt
105:06 because someone else's Hub is you know has band with being using I hope that
105:11 they get that petty about it so that this all just goes away that is what I
105:16 hope because otherwise I don't think it'll go away no probably
105:20 not h all right why don't we call that it
105:25 let's do build logs of the week which conveniently I already have downloaded
105:29 because we've already done this so I'm just going to have to find the download
105:34 and we are starting with the aquad
105:38 dreamer boom beautiful just like last
105:45 time I was just gonna say it's kind of weird doing this again because usually
105:49 it's it's it's first usually fairly first impressions for you yeah
105:53 and I haven't seen my PowerPoint other than just stretching the image and going
105:57 for gold so it's it looks it looks very
106:01 nice um one thing that you brought up the first time is he's got four fans
106:05 going in some crazy awesome wind tunnel yeah the four fans here it's like fan
106:10 one fan two fan three fan four and it's
106:13 just like all the air but it shouldn't be loud because those are fantex fans
106:17 those are quite nice fans he's got he's got white white LED strips going all the
106:21 way around the outside of his case which look great gge and he has awesome
106:25 awesome sing on everything and a lot of nice custom spray painting I pain
106:30 graphics card shouds painted as or Crossfire Bridge rather um you had
106:35 brought up the first time around that it was supposed to originally be a water
106:38 cooled build but kind of looks like it's underwater anyway it's a nice night shot
106:42 yep it's it's hard to get nice night shots but it looks it looks great there
106:46 he did a really really good job with this system all right speaking of knights
106:51 this one's nuts these photos that we have here are in his basically it looks
106:55 kind of like a pamphlet advertisement at the end these are not his build log in
106:59 progress photos i' highly suggest that you check out all the Builds on the pill
107:03 blog there is so much back sweat going into this pillow at this point that I
107:06 think it's almost soaked all the way through it smells awful like here I
107:12 don't want to smell it I don't want to smell it I want to talk about a
107:16 Dragonite PC
107:20 jeez wow okay Paul T has been on build
107:24 logs of the week before he makes awesome incredible computers um I I wouldn't be
107:28 surprised at all if he's selling this it looks even say he's the pton of Computer
107:35 Builders oh my goodness let me just go ahead and open this up wow just like
107:40 last time it's amazing it's a it's a
107:43 Cosmos 2 the front is gorgeous the Sid's
107:46 got a window that's gorgeous and custom and holy crap it gets better than that
107:52 my problem with the Cosmos 2 is that it's big for no apparent reason you
107:56 can't actually put that much stuff in it but it looks like he basically got it it
107:59 so one thing that he's done if you notice right away is there's no I/O coming out of the back of the case the
108:03 back of the case is on the the right hand picture so what he's done is
108:06 rotated the motherboard 90° and custom formed the computer to work well with
108:11 that so he's made an exhaust area on the back which can't see a ton of details on
108:16 there but it has individual slanting down fins it's a dark night how much
108:19 were you expecting to see oh my God hey oh why are you
108:25 trolling Paul system um cuz I love it so
108:28 hard that's I guess that's not a bad not a bad point yeah could be worse um yeah
108:34 so he's done a ton of custom work for it if you want to see his like artist
108:37 rendering prototype designs before he started building and his whole huge
108:42 amount of pictures build log please check it out on the Forum yeah check out the build log section of the build logs
108:48 Forum build logs of the week section of the build log forum
108:55 okay so um this system has actually been done for a while I just have not been
109:00 able to get wher to put it in the actual freaking build log section so he finally
109:04 did so we're finally showcasing it this isn't necessarily something that's kind
109:07 of along the lines of what we usually put on here yeah gaming rigs yeah not
109:11 for gaming although with six PCI Express slots and 32 opteron course and looks
109:19 like up to whatever 8 by 16 would be so
109:22 so 8 * 10 is 80 and another five is 40
109:26 so that's 100 probably what 156 gigs of memory or something stupid like that
109:31 yeah about there that sounds about right yeah potentially so as long as the board
109:36 actually supports it um like my SSD and my laptop isn't that big and we're
109:41 talking RAM I I wonder if that board supports it
109:46 um yeah so click next might should even support more than that because if you
109:50 throw some register dims in there I think there are 16 G registered
109:54 Dems sexy that' be cool Dem heat sinks
109:58 that RAM yep that custom rack I was just that
110:04 rack wow um so he he he commissioned
110:08 this rack it's you can you can get custom design racks from I don't
110:11 remember the guy's name I've heard they plastic surgeons that do
110:14 that this guy does it with a luminum aluminum custom design racks that is
110:19 some space aged stuff you got going on there armor rack armor you know maybe
110:24 that explains chicks NVIDIA games
110:28 right that's why their boobs are so big
110:32 because they're armor they H right because they it's for plaing on the
110:36 inside because they patted the bra because they have poor
110:39 self-esteem then they had to wear armor
110:42 then there's clothing over
110:47 top solve that mystery
110:54 what now ESRB
110:58 anyways sorry we've done this a
111:03 lot had to make it interesting somehow this is a freaking awesome build and I'm
111:07 super stoked that wher did it and this is purely for folding as far as I know I
111:11 don't think he does anything with this system other than fold and it gets some
111:15 like monstrous number of I think it's
111:18 350,000 PPI or pbd pbd I think it's
111:21 called something ridiculous I mean wher's Far and Away the uh biggest contributor to the lus tech tips for
111:26 unfolding team dude you're awesome and I
111:29 think that pretty much wraps it up for the WAN Show this week thank you for
111:33 tuning in or I don't know it's not live anymore so thanks for watching the
111:38 archive thanks for watching the archive yo peace bye hopefully it worked this
111:44 time yeah I know right