1 00:00:00,120 --> 00:00:08,340 a thousand Watts that is the recommended 2 00:00:04,200 --> 00:00:10,920 power budget for this GeForce RTX 4090 3 00:00:08,340 --> 00:00:15,420 from MSI in this economy no wonder gamers are outraged what if I told you 4 00:00:13,320 --> 00:00:21,539 there's another way what if I told you I'm gonna ditch my thousand watt power 5 00:00:18,000 --> 00:00:26,420 supply and run this top spec gaming rig 6 00:00:21,539 --> 00:00:29,580 complete with RTX 4090 on just a 7 00:00:26,420 --> 00:00:31,679 550 watt power supply there will be 8 00:00:29,580 --> 00:00:36,840 trials oh crap there will be tribulations ah crap 9 00:00:35,219 --> 00:00:42,059 but I will be darned I say if I'm gonna have you guys 10 00:00:39,480 --> 00:00:46,980 paying full price to run your rig after you gone wisely 11 00:00:44,100 --> 00:00:52,379 blew your savings on a video game machine smart deploy powered by pdq.com 12 00:00:49,680 --> 00:00:56,160 smart deploy maintains drivers for you with over 1500 driver packs to choose 13 00:00:54,360 --> 00:01:00,059 from deploy any business class device with a single Windows image get your 14 00:00:58,140 --> 00:01:06,840 free licenses worth over 500 at smartdeploy.com Linus so first things 15 00:01:03,000 --> 00:01:09,299 first do you even need a thousand watt 16 00:01:06,840 --> 00:01:15,720 power supply or is this whole thing overblown to find out we've dusted off 17 00:01:12,119 --> 00:01:18,479 our NVIDIA PCAT an inline power 18 00:01:15,720 --> 00:01:24,540 measurement device designed for gpus and we've yanked together a PCIe y power 19 00:01:20,939 --> 00:01:27,060 splitter to accommodate the four bloody 20 00:01:24,540 --> 00:01:34,320 eight pin PCI Express connections that you need for the 12 pin adapter for this 21 00:01:30,540 --> 00:01:36,060 GPU you see the PCAT was designed in the 22 00:01:34,320 --> 00:01:40,740 before four times when nobody ever thought you'd need more than three eight 23 00:01:37,920 --> 00:01:46,140 pin power connectors for a single graphics card I wouldn't describe this 24 00:01:43,500 --> 00:01:48,900 as our most stable GPU ever but I don't think it's going anywhere there are a 25 00:01:47,939 --> 00:01:54,600 couple of ways that we're going to monitor our power consumption first of all we've got the PCAT that I just 26 00:01:52,200 --> 00:01:57,720 mentioned before tells us the GPU's power draw then we're going to have a 27 00:01:56,220 --> 00:02:02,399 regular wall power meter which is going to tell us the total power draw of the 28 00:01:59,640 --> 00:02:06,600 system including any losses due to the inefficiency of our power supply we'll 29 00:02:04,799 --> 00:02:12,480 kick things off with a real game in this case cyberpunk 2077 running at 4K mostly 30 00:02:09,780 --> 00:02:21,840 High presets with Ray tracing set to medium and our GPU is sucking back a 31 00:02:16,680 --> 00:02:24,840 whopping 430 to 470 Watts with our total 32 00:02:21,840 --> 00:02:29,060 system power consumption at about 600 33 00:02:24,840 --> 00:02:32,099 watts all while running at a cool 50 FPS 34 00:02:29,060 --> 00:02:35,819 boy is this ever a demanding game almost 35 00:02:32,099 --> 00:02:38,580 as demanding as MSI's combust or stress 36 00:02:35,819 --> 00:02:43,500 testing application wow it's a little lower even I guess any additional load 37 00:02:41,340 --> 00:02:48,599 that combustor puts on the traditional restaurant rendering course is more than 38 00:02:46,800 --> 00:02:54,060 made up for by the activation of the ray tracing cores in cyberpunk we're going 39 00:02:50,819 --> 00:02:56,640 to need Ray traced freaking stress tests 40 00:02:54,060 --> 00:03:00,840 what the heck whatever the reason it's pretty clear that we don't need a 41 00:02:59,040 --> 00:03:05,400 thousand watt power supply to run this card which makes sense I guess given 42 00:03:03,239 --> 00:03:11,340 that NVIDIA themselves only recommends an 850 watt unit for their Founders 43 00:03:08,519 --> 00:03:16,560 Edition version of the 4090 which raises the question why is MSI asking you to 44 00:03:14,280 --> 00:03:20,640 spend extra money on a thousand watt power supply if I had to guess I'd say 45 00:03:18,659 --> 00:03:25,080 it's for two reasons first to accommodate for any extra power drop 46 00:03:22,319 --> 00:03:29,940 from overclocking and second to account for our connected peripherals like bus 47 00:03:27,180 --> 00:03:33,420 powered USB devices hard drives LED strips the last thing they want is for 48 00:03:31,980 --> 00:03:37,440 you to plug a bunch of other stuff in and then come crying to them when your 49 00:03:35,400 --> 00:03:42,780 system shuts down which raises the question how much more power could we 50 00:03:39,659 --> 00:03:44,459 draw in their OC load as advertised 51 00:03:42,780 --> 00:03:48,780 system power consumption is up in the neighborhood of around 10 percent but 52 00:03:46,739 --> 00:03:53,819 unfortunately it didn't have the impact on FPS that I might have expected we've 53 00:03:50,879 --> 00:04:00,959 gone from about 50 FPS to anywhere from 50 to 54. which kind of raises the 54 00:03:57,420 --> 00:04:03,299 question has NVIDIA already got the 4090 55 00:04:00,959 --> 00:04:07,440 absolutely redlined and if that is the case could we maintain nearly the same 56 00:04:05,340 --> 00:04:11,099 performance but drop our voltage for a big bump in efficiency the first step in 57 00:04:09,599 --> 00:04:16,139 our journey is to drop back down to default mode shut down the system and 58 00:04:13,379 --> 00:04:21,479 try again with MSI's minimum recommended power supply and 850 watt Tech tip for 59 00:04:19,380 --> 00:04:26,639 you guys you should never do what I'm doing where you swap out a power supply 60 00:04:23,639 --> 00:04:28,560 and use the same modular cables and the 61 00:04:26,639 --> 00:04:32,880 reason that you shouldn't do that is because they might not actually use the 62 00:04:30,960 --> 00:04:37,979 same pin outs and you can accidentally fry the devices on the other end in our 63 00:04:35,520 --> 00:04:42,300 case we have a painstakingly validated that these use exactly the same pin out 64 00:04:39,840 --> 00:04:46,139 but we still don't recommend it do as I say not as I do 65 00:04:43,699 --> 00:04:49,979 ah no no just kidding it's fine even within the same manufacturer they're not 66 00:04:48,419 --> 00:04:55,199 always the same pinout as expected our performance is identical 67 00:04:52,320 --> 00:04:59,340 with our 850 watt power supply as is our system power consumption at around 630 68 00:04:57,660 --> 00:05:04,860 Watts from the wall meaning that it is probably safe to run pretty much any 40 69 00:05:02,280 --> 00:05:08,280 90 on a good quality 850 watt power supply and that thousand watt 70 00:05:06,900 --> 00:05:13,259 recommendation seems to be more about butt covering than any actual concern 71 00:05:11,160 --> 00:05:19,160 for over current protection kicking in and shutting off your computer but if 72 00:05:15,780 --> 00:05:22,740 850 watts is fine then perhaps 73 00:05:19,160 --> 00:05:24,780 750 watts is also fine I mean it still 74 00:05:22,740 --> 00:05:28,680 only says 600 watts from the wall right and that's accounting for the power 75 00:05:26,580 --> 00:05:32,699 supply is inefficiencies something like 550. I think we're going to get there if 76 00:05:31,440 --> 00:05:39,360 these Donuts in the middle of the intersection or anything to go by 750 77 00:05:35,400 --> 00:05:42,419 watts is fine just fine with a 100 plus 78 00:05:39,360 --> 00:05:45,479 watt buffer but that's not to say that 79 00:05:42,419 --> 00:05:49,560 every 750 watt power supply is going to 80 00:05:45,479 --> 00:05:51,360 handle a ryzen 7000 and a 40 90. there 81 00:05:49,560 --> 00:05:57,360 are a couple of major factors to consider first is transient spikes we 82 00:05:55,020 --> 00:06:04,199 first noticed this with the RTX 3000 Series but Power hungry gpus like this 83 00:06:00,300 --> 00:06:06,720 one can momentarily draw far more power 84 00:06:04,199 --> 00:06:10,320 than what they are rated for it's not for long enough to cause thermal 85 00:06:08,280 --> 00:06:15,300 problems like usually only for a few microseconds but it can be enough to 86 00:06:13,139 --> 00:06:18,960 trigger the over current protection of your power supply especially if you're 87 00:06:17,280 --> 00:06:23,880 running an older unit that wasn't designed for modern Beast gpus another 88 00:06:22,139 --> 00:06:28,919 Factor we're not considering here is capacitor aging this power supply 89 00:06:26,280 --> 00:06:33,360 probably only has a dozen or so hours on it at most give it another hundred 90 00:06:31,199 --> 00:06:37,740 thousand hours and depending on factors like how hot or cool it was running it 91 00:06:35,699 --> 00:06:44,400 could be operating at maybe 95 percent of its brand new capacity or 90 or even 92 00:06:41,340 --> 00:06:46,199 much lower by choosing a properly spec 93 00:06:44,400 --> 00:06:49,919 unit with plenty of Headroom you give yourself a better chance of years of 94 00:06:47,940 --> 00:06:54,060 trouble-free operation and help avoid blade catastrophic failure because the 95 00:06:52,020 --> 00:06:59,400 thing about power supplies is when they pop they can sometimes take everything 96 00:06:56,340 --> 00:07:02,699 else with them which won't stop us from 97 00:06:59,400 --> 00:07:04,880 seeing how low we can go where's my 650 98 00:07:02,699 --> 00:07:09,780 watt power supply I know where it is I'll get it now we 99 00:07:07,860 --> 00:07:13,919 are running into a situation where we've actually run out of eight pin power 100 00:07:12,240 --> 00:07:22,380 connectors coming out of our power supply so we're going to have to employ 101 00:07:17,539 --> 00:07:25,680 a splitter all the Y splitters you know 102 00:07:22,380 --> 00:07:28,080 why Splitters like sorry see Sonic you 103 00:07:25,680 --> 00:07:31,139 guys were a great sponsor I apologize in advance for blowing up your power supply 104 00:07:29,520 --> 00:07:36,060 on camera hopefully we can work together again in the future it's probably fine 105 00:07:33,479 --> 00:07:39,240 what will probably happen is we will trigger the over current protection of 106 00:07:37,680 --> 00:07:44,759 our power supply and the system will just shut off we do need to drive around a 107 00:07:42,120 --> 00:07:49,620 bit before we say for certain this is working it puts a little bit more load 108 00:07:46,860 --> 00:07:54,120 on the GPU I saw it at 6 20 there basically we could put a couple LED 109 00:07:51,840 --> 00:07:56,940 strips on this system and it could put us over the limit for those of you 110 00:07:55,620 --> 00:08:03,120 wondering by the way we stopped using combustor because the load wasn't even as high as cyberpunk I thought it would 111 00:07:59,940 --> 00:08:04,800 be higher oh one thing we could do is we 112 00:08:03,120 --> 00:08:08,280 could put a little bit of CPU load on the system cyberpunk is still running in 113 00:08:06,780 --> 00:08:15,380 the background and what will probably happen is the game I will die in the background 114 00:08:11,819 --> 00:08:18,180 and it won't actually be rendering 567. 115 00:08:15,380 --> 00:08:23,940 740 oh get this Brandon how is it doing that that doesn't seem right see Sonic 116 00:08:20,460 --> 00:08:26,639 hello our FPS is n a we've left this 117 00:08:23,940 --> 00:08:30,419 plane of existence behind GeForce experience this probably just bugs that 118 00:08:27,900 --> 00:08:36,240 happens sometimes but I was um I was not expecting this I guess it 119 00:08:33,599 --> 00:08:42,360 could be that their 650 watt unit is simply over specked and they set their 120 00:08:39,959 --> 00:08:49,260 over current protection for something far in excess of 650 Watts the fan isn't 121 00:08:46,080 --> 00:08:51,480 even spinning see Sonic what you doing I 122 00:08:49,260 --> 00:08:57,839 mean that is the way to build a really high quality 650 watt power supply is if 123 00:08:54,480 --> 00:09:00,060 it's just a 750 watt power supply in you 124 00:08:57,839 --> 00:09:04,260 know with the seven scratched out and just put a six there 125 00:09:02,940 --> 00:09:10,380 to be clear I'm not expecting anything to happen at the desktop we're sitting at like 130 Watts right now but I am 126 00:09:08,580 --> 00:09:15,060 expecting something to happen because aside from going down from 650 to 550 127 00:09:13,019 --> 00:09:20,880 Watts we're also stepping down from csonic's Prime titanium premium power 128 00:09:18,060 --> 00:09:26,100 supply lineup to their focus lineup which is that means 80 plus gold it 129 00:09:23,880 --> 00:09:30,839 still see Sonic 10-year warranty blah blah blah but it's very unlikely that 130 00:09:28,560 --> 00:09:37,860 that's you know an 800 watt power supply and 550 watt clothing holy 131 00:09:34,700 --> 00:09:39,019 ah this is not what I expected we are 132 00:09:37,860 --> 00:09:45,000 drawing 630 Watts from the wall the GPU is at 133 00:09:42,720 --> 00:09:48,660 450 Watts you know we shot the intro for this video with the trials and the 134 00:09:47,040 --> 00:09:53,279 tribulation I was expecting there to be crashes for us to cut in there 135 00:09:51,300 --> 00:09:59,700 I'm gonna have to oh oh crap well there's one ah but it's okay 136 00:09:56,820 --> 00:10:03,959 we have a way around it first up in our bag of tricks instead of turning our 137 00:10:01,320 --> 00:10:10,920 power Target up we are going to turn it down maybe 90 is enough to get by with 138 00:10:07,620 --> 00:10:13,200 550 Watts about 2 800 megahertz is what 139 00:10:10,920 --> 00:10:17,160 we get on this one in default so as long as we're close to that we are in good 140 00:10:15,300 --> 00:10:21,480 shape we'll also be able to tell from the FPS the game is running at though 141 00:10:19,980 --> 00:10:26,100 ah crap well we're gonna need more than uh 10 142 00:10:24,240 --> 00:10:30,720 power limit how about 80 143 00:10:28,519 --> 00:10:35,399 600 watts from the wall already okay come on come on come on 144 00:10:32,160 --> 00:10:37,500 come on ah crap come on 145 00:10:35,399 --> 00:10:43,740 we're not defeated yet though we found we can go as low as about 70 power limit 146 00:10:41,220 --> 00:10:49,380 without losing a ton of performance we make it 70 percent 147 00:10:46,380 --> 00:10:53,880 ply overall system power consumption is 148 00:10:49,380 --> 00:10:56,339 under 550 watts of the wall crap 149 00:10:53,880 --> 00:11:03,959 crap we couldn't even get the close-up but we aren't defeated yet we could drop 150 00:10:59,279 --> 00:11:06,600 the GPU down to 60. 50 power limit the 151 00:11:03,959 --> 00:11:11,399 issue is that when we do that we risk seeing some pretty funky Behavior even 152 00:11:08,579 --> 00:11:17,399 if our FPS still looks okay we might need to start attacking this from a CPU 153 00:11:13,500 --> 00:11:20,519 perspective oh crap oh this is not good 154 00:11:17,399 --> 00:11:22,260 actually before we adjust our CPU one 155 00:11:20,519 --> 00:11:26,640 thing we can try is remember how I'm running a y Splitter from one of my 156 00:11:24,300 --> 00:11:30,839 power supply outputs to two of the inputs on our NVIDIA power measurement 157 00:11:28,260 --> 00:11:36,660 board well there's a way that we could not do that we have four total outputs 158 00:11:34,620 --> 00:11:42,060 on this power supply and what we could do is we could just run a single eight 159 00:11:38,820 --> 00:11:45,839 pin to the CPU and then three dedicated 160 00:11:42,060 --> 00:11:48,660 eight pins over to this board I'm going 161 00:11:45,839 --> 00:11:51,480 to step it back to 80 power limit I believe we were overloading a 12 volt 162 00:11:50,640 --> 00:11:56,279 rail not actually overloading the power 163 00:11:54,000 --> 00:12:00,800 supply oh God it's already 164 00:11:58,079 --> 00:12:00,800 okay 165 00:12:01,519 --> 00:12:08,040 darn it Brandon you've captured plenty of the crashes so 166 00:12:06,000 --> 00:12:14,579 far you don't need to have all of my failures on film oh crap oh crap ah crap 167 00:12:12,480 --> 00:12:20,700 I'm just gonna power straight into it 70 power limit let's go yeah it's still 168 00:12:18,180 --> 00:12:25,459 jumping up as high as like 360 Watts that doesn't seem like 70 percent of the 169 00:12:23,040 --> 00:12:25,459 power limit 170 00:12:27,600 --> 00:12:33,600 we're not done yet my hope is that we can save a bit of our overall system 171 00:12:31,200 --> 00:12:38,519 power budget by reducing the voltage to our CPU we're leaving everything else on 172 00:12:36,000 --> 00:12:42,720 normal we've even got PBO Precision boost overdrive still enabled which 173 00:12:40,260 --> 00:12:48,720 allows the CPU to Turbo up higher and for longer but maybe by reducing the 174 00:12:45,360 --> 00:12:50,459 voltage just just 0.15 volts 175 00:12:48,720 --> 00:12:54,899 get away with something here we might have gone a little aggressive on that 176 00:12:51,959 --> 00:12:59,899 CPU underbolt but we also really want to see this work so 177 00:12:56,459 --> 00:12:59,899 go in game in game 178 00:13:06,779 --> 00:13:13,440 we managed to drop our overall system power consumption by like 20 and all it 179 00:13:12,000 --> 00:13:20,880 cost us was we're running at 49 FPS right now 48 180 00:13:16,560 --> 00:13:25,079 less than 10 percent of our actual real 181 00:13:20,880 --> 00:13:31,260 world performance we are running a 7900x 182 00:13:25,079 --> 00:13:32,760 and a 4090 on a 550 watt power supply as 183 00:13:31,260 --> 00:13:36,839 promised even though I didn't know for sure what 184 00:13:34,800 --> 00:13:40,760 happened of course as cool as that was nobody's gonna buy a GPU like this only 185 00:13:39,180 --> 00:13:45,360 to leave performance on the table thankfully you can have the best of both 186 00:13:43,139 --> 00:13:51,480 worlds we observed that our GPU clock was around 2.8 gigahertz under sustained 187 00:13:48,959 --> 00:13:58,380 load so what we can do is go into the curve editor in MSI afterburner hold alt 188 00:13:54,959 --> 00:14:01,019 and take our very farthest dot here and 189 00:13:58,380 --> 00:14:09,260 drag our frequency Target down to about 2.8 then we're going to individually 190 00:14:04,139 --> 00:14:12,839 drag up our 950 millivolt dot to 191 00:14:09,260 --> 00:14:14,519 2.8 gigahertz and a plus 192 00:14:12,839 --> 00:14:20,339 changed our Target from 3 gigahertz to 2.8 which is fine 193 00:14:18,300 --> 00:14:25,860 because we were only hitting 2.8 gigahertz anyway theoretically assuming 194 00:14:23,459 --> 00:14:31,260 we stay stable we should have our lower power consumption and our stock 195 00:14:28,980 --> 00:14:34,320 performance almost we'll get to that in a moment the key night among you will 196 00:14:32,820 --> 00:14:38,279 have noticed we're back to our 650 rather than our 550 watt power supply we 197 00:14:36,480 --> 00:14:43,500 saw some very strange Behavior with the 550. so for this demo I just want to 198 00:14:41,639 --> 00:14:47,639 show you how the power consumption is low I don't need to be using a 550 watt 199 00:14:46,139 --> 00:14:53,820 power supply the game Crash let's try 200 00:14:50,360 --> 00:14:55,860 970 millivolts and there we have it even 201 00:14:53,820 --> 00:15:01,199 though we backed off our CPU under volt a little bit we're down to minus 0.1 202 00:14:58,139 --> 00:15:04,079 volt and we're at 975 millivolts on our 203 00:15:01,199 --> 00:15:09,540 GPU we are still 100 Watts lower than we were when we 204 00:15:06,120 --> 00:15:12,240 started as for our performance 205 00:15:09,540 --> 00:15:16,019 lower but we can fix that very easily all we got to do is alt Tab out then 206 00:15:14,519 --> 00:15:21,420 we're just going to play with our memory clock let's try plus 500. it's possible 207 00:15:19,260 --> 00:15:26,820 we could go higher than that but 500 is pretty safe now we're back in 208 00:15:24,060 --> 00:15:34,019 game and I'm seeing as high as 60 FPS but going back to the same area now it's 209 00:15:30,720 --> 00:15:35,100 more like yeah dropped under 50. ah 210 00:15:34,019 --> 00:15:39,300 let's give the memory a little more juice let's say 900. 211 00:15:40,500 --> 00:15:46,199 40 Watts 52 54. 212 00:15:44,220 --> 00:15:51,300 60 say we are pretty darn near we started 213 00:15:48,839 --> 00:15:58,560 now not bad for a 650 watt power supply all of this raises the question what if 214 00:15:55,320 --> 00:16:00,360 instead of going full balls out NVIDIA 215 00:15:58,560 --> 00:16:05,160 did what we did we could have had smaller coolers more sensible power 216 00:16:02,519 --> 00:16:10,680 supply requirements nearly the same performance like in real terms that 217 00:16:08,399 --> 00:16:15,120 could be hundreds of dollars in savings over the years that you might be 218 00:16:12,180 --> 00:16:19,920 expected to run a GPU like this but then it's also possible that nothing would 219 00:16:17,459 --> 00:16:25,320 have been different maybe in order to get economical yields on Ada Lovelace 220 00:16:22,440 --> 00:16:30,540 RTX 4000 architecture code name they needed to accept these power hungry 221 00:16:27,360 --> 00:16:32,880 parts and maybe we just got a good one 222 00:16:30,540 --> 00:16:36,600 the good news though is that even if that's the case at sixteen hundred 223 00:16:35,220 --> 00:16:40,860 dollars this is a problem that won't affect a lot of people and those that 224 00:16:39,180 --> 00:16:44,940 can't afford this GPU can probably afford the running cost either way it 225 00:16:43,019 --> 00:16:50,820 was an interesting Adventure just like this interesting Adventure into Segway 226 00:16:47,160 --> 00:16:52,620 land ahoy it's our sponsor wealthfront 227 00:16:50,820 --> 00:16:55,860 thanks wealthfront for sponsoring this portion of today's video does anyone 228 00:16:54,420 --> 00:17:00,420 know what's going on with the economy right now no really though anyone 229 00:16:57,660 --> 00:17:04,260 inflation keeps inflating and who knows if we're in a recession at the moment 230 00:17:01,740 --> 00:17:08,040 but it's always a good time to save and well friend is the app for making the 231 00:17:06,240 --> 00:17:12,959 most of your savings right now you can 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