WEBVTT

00:00:00.000 --> 00:00:08.940
we've told you this so many times buying used hard drives is not worth risking

00:00:05.400 --> 00:00:10.679
your data but sometimes

00:00:08.940 --> 00:00:14.900
offer you just cannot refuse we took that risk and bought eight used hard

00:00:12.599 --> 00:00:21.000
drives from eBay totaling 136 terabytes for two thousand dollars

00:00:18.900 --> 00:00:26.460
that's almost half the price compared to new really impressive savings but just

00:00:23.760 --> 00:00:30.960
like buying a used GPU on eBay there's a real chance that new to you high

00:00:28.980 --> 00:00:35.820
capacity hard drives were used for crypto mining so is even this great deal

00:00:34.020 --> 00:00:40.800
worth it if there's a chance your parts arrive with one foot already in the

00:00:38.340 --> 00:00:44.460
grave I'll tell you where and why these drives are popping up for sale what red

00:00:42.660 --> 00:00:48.780
flags to look out for and when you should consider making an exception to

00:00:46.500 --> 00:00:52.920
the don't buy used hard drives rule right after I tell you how to make an

00:00:50.700 --> 00:00:56.280
exceptional segue to our sponsor ridge ridge wallet has redefined the

00:00:54.840 --> 00:01:00.960
traditional wallet with its compact frame and RFID blocking plates the Bulge

00:00:59.460 --> 00:01:07.280
in your pants shouldn't be from your wallet dang it use offer code Linus to

00:01:02.879 --> 00:01:07.280
save 10 and get free worldwide shipping

00:01:12.740 --> 00:01:18.060
all right the shameful truth is this

00:01:16.380 --> 00:01:23.040
isn't even the first time we've bought you storage my personal hard drives are

00:01:21.060 --> 00:01:27.960
from a dead Nas and are currently Dying Years Ago Linus splurged on 24 used ssds

00:01:26.220 --> 00:01:31.740
for a server at home but the only reason he was comfortable taking that risk was

00:01:30.180 --> 00:01:36.540
that he had been reassured by another buyer the ssds were in good health so he

00:01:34.860 --> 00:01:42.119
bought them this time though we don't have that luxury but what we do have are

00:01:39.240 --> 00:01:45.540
some very attractive prices two hundred dollars for 16 terabytes when the

00:01:44.460 --> 00:01:51.960
cheapest new drive with the same capacity would be in the neighborhood of

00:01:47.579 --> 00:01:55.020
300 so why are they so cheap supply and

00:01:51.960 --> 00:01:57.479
demand wow a huge volume of drives are

00:01:55.020 --> 00:02:03.240
being dumped on eBay Marketplace and the like some from Everyday People some that

00:02:00.479 --> 00:02:09.140
were refurbished and some from unscrupulous users that use the hard

00:02:05.340 --> 00:02:12.900
drive to mine cryptocurrencies

00:02:09.140 --> 00:02:15.000
but how much does that hurt them well

00:02:12.900 --> 00:02:20.700
there are many coins you can mine on a hard drive today we tried it in the past

00:02:17.040 --> 00:02:23.280
the most popular by far is chia mining

00:02:20.700 --> 00:02:28.020
it was so popular at launch in May 2021 that Seagate was even considering making

00:02:25.319 --> 00:02:33.900
an entire line of cryptocurrency specific hard drives sure anyway Chia

00:02:32.040 --> 00:02:39.060
mind hard drives should be pretty safe to buy since Chia runs on a proof of

00:02:36.420 --> 00:02:44.099
space algorithm so once the drives are filled with the plot data from Chia to

00:02:41.340 --> 00:02:47.879
prove the space or capacity very little read or write activity is required while

00:02:45.840 --> 00:02:51.599
mining that space on the drive that means that drives used in Chia mining

00:02:49.500 --> 00:02:57.000
are barely used which is enough justification for us to roll the dice on

00:02:53.700 --> 00:03:01.260
eBay we settled on two 16 terabyte WD

00:02:57.000 --> 00:03:04.500
UltraStar HC 5500s two 16 terabyte

00:03:01.260 --> 00:03:08.720
Seagate XO 16x's that one yeah this one

00:03:04.500 --> 00:03:11.220
right here and four 18 terabyte

00:03:08.720 --> 00:03:17.280
and now they're here let's compare what was advertised with what we actually got

00:03:13.560 --> 00:03:19.319
our two WDS were listed with up to 2100

00:03:17.280 --> 00:03:26.400
hours of power on yeah not so much we got drives with 2300

00:03:23.459 --> 00:03:31.200
and 2600 hours a bit above the stated value but in the grand scheme of things

00:03:28.620 --> 00:03:35.580
those extra 10 or 20 days of power on time aren't really a big deal on the

00:03:33.599 --> 00:03:40.319
flip side the seagates were expected to arrive with up to 11

00:03:38.040 --> 00:03:48.540
000 power on hours and instead they just had like 234 213 hours damn score but

00:03:45.659 --> 00:03:52.379
still is that a lot or a little in the Enterprise world the expected lifetime

00:03:50.519 --> 00:03:57.599
is around 45 000 hours but anecdotally some of our

00:03:55.080 --> 00:04:02.700
staff have drives with 50 to 60 000 hours ultimately it's hard to say when a

00:03:59.700 --> 00:04:04.920
drive is too old to use higher hour

00:04:02.700 --> 00:04:08.459
drives are typically cheaper but they also might not last as long only you can

00:04:06.959 --> 00:04:15.420
decide if it's worth it for your needs but we'd recommend 20 maybe 25

00:04:12.180 --> 00:04:17.940
000 hours as a safe ceiling lastly our

00:04:15.420 --> 00:04:23.340
four Toshiba drives the packaging just speaks for itself this is what our other

00:04:20.519 --> 00:04:28.860
drives came in uh you can see here ESD bags this foam hold your hard drives in

00:04:26.000 --> 00:04:33.540
and this is how the Toshiba has arrived not great for mechanical devices with

00:04:31.080 --> 00:04:37.560
moving Parts like just look at the SATA connectors on this one

00:04:35.100 --> 00:04:42.120
I noticed that the corner is just completely passionate on this one oh

00:04:39.600 --> 00:04:47.460
it's just actually broken fantastic a quick sound check on the

00:04:45.060 --> 00:04:50.300
Toshibas tells us the other drives were damaged as well

00:04:55.320 --> 00:05:02.699
huge bummer unfortunately this buyer didn't accept our returns but no matter

00:05:00.780 --> 00:05:06.000
the buyer protection on eBay is excellent and we're able to use the

00:05:04.020 --> 00:05:10.259
money back guarantee to get our cash back but physical condition and Power on

00:05:08.220 --> 00:05:14.100
hours aren't the only way to diagnose our drives it's time to pull the rest of

00:05:12.300 --> 00:05:18.660
the smart data thanks to the cloud backup and storage systems experts at

00:05:16.320 --> 00:05:22.740
backblaze we know that some parameters are better indicator of failures than

00:05:20.820 --> 00:05:29.960
others the combination of attributes 5187 188 and 197 and 198 can accurately

00:05:27.600 --> 00:05:36.180
predict an impending drive failure 76.7 percent of the time and how did our

00:05:33.180 --> 00:05:38.340
other drives fare flying colors it's

00:05:36.180 --> 00:05:42.120
golf rules and we have zeros across the board or at least as far as we could

00:05:40.380 --> 00:05:46.259
tell see every Drive manufacturer has different ideas about which of the many

00:05:44.340 --> 00:05:51.360
specific smart attributes they should monitor Seagate gave us all five while

00:05:48.360 --> 00:05:53.699
neither WD or Toshiba include 187 and

00:05:51.360 --> 00:05:59.460
188 one blemish though was that despite its low power cycle and on hours count

00:05:56.039 --> 00:06:01.800
attribute 199 on one of our Seagate exos

00:05:59.460 --> 00:06:06.300
drives was flagged as concerning this rather nebulous error count increases

00:06:03.960 --> 00:06:10.139
when there are infinitesimally short drops in communication between the

00:06:08.400 --> 00:06:13.919
controller on the hard drive and the SATA controller on the motherboard

00:06:11.520 --> 00:06:17.639
during a data transfer operation these drops are almost exclusively caused by

00:06:15.780 --> 00:06:22.620
things like a bad or lucida connection or a faulty SATA controller on the host

00:06:20.160 --> 00:06:25.620
system so ultimately they're safe to ignore so long as they aren't

00:06:23.880 --> 00:06:29.280
reoccurring and if you confirmed the cabling and the controller are both good

00:06:27.419 --> 00:06:34.139
the final thing we can glean from our smart data is the evidence of crypto

00:06:31.259 --> 00:06:39.180
mining farming whatever we're looking at threes specific signs high power on

00:06:36.720 --> 00:06:43.800
hours are relatively low number of total reads compared to those power on hours

00:06:40.979 --> 00:06:47.280
and a total right amount that is roughly equal to the size of the drive although

00:06:45.720 --> 00:06:51.720
that's no guarantee with a quick conversion and a little math we can see

00:06:49.440 --> 00:06:58.020
our Seagate drives have a total reads and writes that are staggeringly high

00:06:54.419 --> 00:07:00.479
given their 250 ish power on hours it's

00:06:58.020 --> 00:07:04.560
also roughly twice their capacity which according to our friend Wendell from

00:07:02.100 --> 00:07:08.520
level one text could be due to one of the Integrity checks that might run

00:07:06.180 --> 00:07:12.780
while refurbishing a truck and lo and behold they've been etched to say they

00:07:10.620 --> 00:07:18.060
are recertified weird since there was nothing about that in the listing

00:07:14.759 --> 00:07:20.699
oh well we can only speculate on their

00:07:18.060 --> 00:07:24.720
history but it's possible these are gray Market drives from a batch of drives

00:07:22.560 --> 00:07:30.180
that had their tilt indicators tripped during shipping or were sent back as an

00:07:27.060 --> 00:07:32.639
open box return drive failure is mostly

00:07:30.180 --> 00:07:37.080
common when a drive is new they may be DOA or fail within a couple days of use

00:07:34.979 --> 00:07:41.639
so these drives could have been through all of that before being recertified and

00:07:39.539 --> 00:07:45.840
then sold to us checking the Seagate website for warranties has both drives

00:07:43.620 --> 00:07:49.680
report back not warranted by Seagate which in theory means that the

00:07:47.580 --> 00:07:54.960
recertifying company offers an alternative warranty and this 30-day

00:07:52.259 --> 00:07:59.819
seller warranty is exactly that 30 days isn't quite the five years that Seagate

00:07:57.479 --> 00:08:03.900
offers from authorized sellers but it's a heck of a lot more than zero days plus

00:08:01.560 --> 00:08:08.340
they are WD drives continued their trend of ignoring useful features and chose

00:08:06.060 --> 00:08:12.900
not to log total reads and writes thanks WD this makes it difficult for us to

00:08:10.860 --> 00:08:17.819
even speculate on their history but at only a hundred or so days of power on

00:08:15.240 --> 00:08:22.259
time it seems unlikely they are part of a farm because having their patience to

00:08:20.160 --> 00:08:27.120
allow those rewards to slowly accumulate is essential for returning a profit

00:08:24.720 --> 00:08:31.620
especially when Factory in upfront costs and power consumption and you should

00:08:28.979 --> 00:08:36.300
factor in the power you feel with a screwdriver from lttstore.com

00:08:34.200 --> 00:08:40.020
they're actually very good now it's time to do something with these drives seeing

00:08:38.399 --> 00:08:44.580
as we have this much storage on hand let's do it to make just a janky DIY Nas

00:08:42.959 --> 00:08:48.300
and compare its price to an off-the-shelf pre-built Mass the key

00:08:46.560 --> 00:08:52.920
night among you may have already knows though that we paid more for our 16

00:08:50.100 --> 00:08:56.339
terabyte drives than our eight teams so it seems like a good time to note that

00:08:54.839 --> 00:09:00.420
we had some time constraints that prevented us from getting the absolute

00:08:58.140 --> 00:09:04.260
best bang for a buck on the hard drive namely we wanted to get a variety of

00:09:02.399 --> 00:09:08.100
different drives from different Sellers and they had to be able to ship it to us

00:09:06.000 --> 00:09:12.779
up in Canada further limiting our choices our best deal was easily the

00:09:10.680 --> 00:09:17.519
recertified Seagate drives that came with an 80 Gigabyte per dollar compared

00:09:14.940 --> 00:09:22.140
to 50 to 55 gigabytes per dollar brand new that's two used drives for the price

00:09:19.440 --> 00:09:25.860
of one and a half brand new and if you happen to need a drive we'll have the

00:09:24.000 --> 00:09:29.940
links for both new and used down in the description

00:09:27.240 --> 00:09:35.760
oh here we go oh wow that's heavy good old steel chassis assuming we converted

00:09:32.700 --> 00:09:38.279
our trustial 69 gaming PC into an ass

00:09:35.760 --> 00:09:43.320
and assuming we loaded it with these 16 terabyte seagates which ideally within

00:09:41.279 --> 00:09:48.180
the toshiba's if they worked and then you factor in some money for cables and

00:09:45.779 --> 00:09:53.399
a hard drive cage we are sitting right around 71 gigabytes per dollar meanwhile

00:09:51.420 --> 00:10:00.899
a pre-configured Nas with that much storage space comes in at

00:09:56.300 --> 00:10:04.019
1622 meaning 39.5 gigabytes per dollar

00:10:00.899 --> 00:10:06.779
what could you do with that extra 720

00:10:04.019 --> 00:10:12.420
how about buying another three full hard drives or building a whole other PC not

00:10:09.779 --> 00:10:16.860
to mention that the 69 PC can still do all the normal things you expect a PC to

00:10:13.920 --> 00:10:21.720
do while a dedicated Nas has a singular purpose but it's not just about spending

00:10:19.320 --> 00:10:26.760
Less on your Nas project you can also afford to buy more drives that you can

00:10:24.300 --> 00:10:31.380
dedicate to parity for example choosing to go with raid 5 instead of raid 1.

00:10:28.980 --> 00:10:37.019
those used drives may be less reliable overall but at some point the extra

00:10:34.200 --> 00:10:40.140
redundancy makes it the safer move but there's a few things we haven't touched

00:10:38.279 --> 00:10:45.360
on so far with this price discussion sales on new hard drives and shocking

00:10:43.140 --> 00:10:49.260
shocking hard drives involves buying a drive generally intended to be used

00:10:47.160 --> 00:10:54.839
externally and removing all the unnecessary bits to just get to the 3.5

00:10:51.839 --> 00:10:56.760
inch hard drive inside as an example you

00:10:54.839 --> 00:11:04.560
could pick up one of these 18 terabyte external WD My Books brand new for 280

00:11:00.959 --> 00:11:06.660
per Drive meaning 64 gigabytes per

00:11:04.560 --> 00:11:10.620
dollar substantially closer to the cost of a used Drive than to the cost of one

00:11:09.000 --> 00:11:16.260
that was intended to be used internal all along as for sales on new drives

00:11:13.140 --> 00:11:18.420
this is essentially a matter of patience

00:11:16.260 --> 00:11:25.220
we've seen the price of a brand new 18 terabyte drive fall as low as 300 a new

00:11:22.260 --> 00:11:31.320
16 terabyte drives have gone on sale for 245. again not as cheap as used but it's

00:11:29.220 --> 00:11:36.180
got a lot of benefits like a full warranty known history and zero power on

00:11:33.899 --> 00:11:41.040
hours with all that said though can I ultimately recommend using used hard

00:11:38.220 --> 00:11:45.180
drives it's all going to come down to just your personal Comfort level with

00:11:42.899 --> 00:11:50.040
risk if you are storing something easily replaceable like Steam games or media

00:11:47.459 --> 00:11:53.640
files you might be pretty excited to get a bunch of capacity or redundancy for

00:11:52.200 --> 00:11:58.560
the same amount of money but if you're storing family photos or important

00:11:55.800 --> 00:12:03.779
documents well those are worth a heck of a lot more than a game save to most

00:12:01.500 --> 00:12:08.360
people and also just use steam Cloud saves and knowing they're on a new Drive

00:12:06.180 --> 00:12:12.420
might help you feel more at ease regardless of what drives you end up

00:12:10.560 --> 00:12:16.440
with you should have a good one two three backup strategy in place things

00:12:14.399 --> 00:12:20.399
three copies of your data on two separate mediums with one stored off

00:12:18.180 --> 00:12:23.240
site I personally prefer the one one one

00:12:23.540 --> 00:12:30.839
one drive already failing one location

00:12:28.500 --> 00:12:35.040
s about risk aren't something we can answer for you it's up to each

00:12:33.000 --> 00:12:40.200
individual to decide on their own but for our part yeah it's kind of worth the

00:12:37.800 --> 00:12:44.459
risk we've definitely had a bunch of change of opinion on used drives and

00:12:42.480 --> 00:12:48.600
we'll be considering them in future want to build calls for the most terabytes

00:12:46.560 --> 00:12:52.380
for our dollars just like how this video calls for the most segue to our sponsor

00:12:50.639 --> 00:12:55.680
that's it that's your Footwear they're known for being lightweight easy to pack

00:12:53.760 --> 00:12:59.040
and most importantly worn by me just joking most importantly they're water

00:12:56.820 --> 00:13:03.360
resistant thanks to dimatex technology their everyday move line is designed

00:13:01.019 --> 00:13:07.139
with added support at the midsole and better breathability to keep up with

00:13:05.220 --> 00:13:10.560
your active lifestyle take them off and put them back on with ease as you saw I

00:13:08.820 --> 00:13:14.579
don't mess with lasers anymore and these are made creature free so every step you

00:13:12.660 --> 00:13:17.820
take will be guilt-free they're vegan and thanks to the Dual climate knit

00:13:16.139 --> 00:13:21.180
material your feet will stay dry during the winter and cool during the summer so

00:13:19.560 --> 00:13:25.940
treat your feet with vessi's everyday move shoes and save 25 bucks with our

00:13:23.279 --> 00:13:31.019
offer code Linus Tech tips at vesti.com Linus Tech tips it's a huge thanks for

00:13:28.440 --> 00:13:34.440
watching this video I might have been a little bit deeper than we thought at

00:13:32.820 --> 00:13:38.399
first but if you enjoyed this video maybe you want to look at the last time

00:13:36.240 --> 00:13:42.000
you built a tiny nest with a hundred terabytes of space sure wish that we

00:13:40.260 --> 00:13:44.360
bought some used drops for that one have a great day