You'll own no IP at all and you'll be
happy. I will be sad. What? Nope. Not
allowed. That's okay. It's the rules. The AI will
stop you from being sad. How could you be sad when you live in a utopia where
everything's controlled and oh, everything's generated?
What are we talking about here, Luke? It's powered by the the IP grinding
machine. We're talking about uh IP. We're talking about AI policy. We're
talking about how this stuff is going to possibly work because there's a huge
battle going on between North American and European AI companies and mostly
Chinese AI companies. Deepseek came and took everyone's lunch and what are we
going to do about it? You you uh it's like you host a stream or something.
You've done this before. Maybe we haven't done a talk linked in a in a hot
second but and you've never been on. No. I'm so excited. Yeah. And also get you
get to talk about AI. Wait, I just when Lionus doesn't let you. No. On when he
whips me. As soon as you get to a AI topic, and I know this because I prepare
the topic sometimes. Yeah. I'm like, "Oh, they're going to like this topic."
I stopped preparing them because he just gets there and he goes on his phone.
Yeah. He has literally done that. And then he'll get at me for not paying
attention during other topics. But whatever, man. Yeah. But now you get to
talk about it. So the the the kind of impetus for all of this was Jack Dorsey,
the founder, former CEO of Twitter.
Yeah. Now X, which I still call Twitter. Yeah. Uh tweeting delete all IP law on
April 11th. And it kind of sparked some discourse. Yeah. That's that's part of
what in my opinion are like the three core topics around AI policy right now,
which I laid out as open versus closed models, copyright and IP reform, and AI
safety versus innovation speed. Oh, heck. And I think that's like one of the
really core things is what do we do with IP law? Because when you're looking at
the the race for AI stuff, it's becoming
more and more like country or alliance-based instead of company based.
So a lot of people are looking at it like okay the west versus the east I
guess or right now basically deepse v everyone
and there are differences in how the
west and China deal with IP law. Do I
understand Chinese IP law? Not even sort
of. Yeah. Yeah. I kind of started to Google it in preparation for this and
I'm kind of like oh this is going to be too too complicated. What my not enough
Googling has told me uh is that they are much more lax on IP law especially when
it comes to outside of their own country but also within their own country and
especially especially when it has to do with anything that could benefit the
state right because over here you know the the North American kind of
capitalist mindset corpo focused right it's like let people go out there
struggle whoever rises to the top is good and China also does that I know
they do that with like but but it's more like it's they the government directs these little
experiments to happen. Um so if
something is like oh this will be beneficial to the nation then they can
just kind of override yeah the ide which which when you're in a race
like this could be very beneficial when
the other side the west is like squabbbling over are we even allowing
these companies access this data at all which I I think what a lot of the
argument hinges on right is like the
morality around letting these gigantic
companies that don't care about you and want to loot you for everything you have
take all of your IP as well or lose the whole race and have it not
matter anyways because a company in another country that's just going to do
that anyways ends up winning. Yeah. So,
so for me tough argument for me the there's kind of two well there might be
more than two but the two perspectives that are kind of popping into my head
here are the like philosophical argument
for AI copyright like as a society just
regardless of like you know where China is at do we think that AI created stuff
deserves copyright do we think that AI a model could count as the author of
something there's all those questions and then there's the kind of more
utilitarian like practical question of like is this what we have to do in order
to keep up in the nuclear AI arms race
with China. So which of those is more interesting to you? Well, I think right
now the can an AI have ownership over
something that it creates thing. Um is
is technically somewhat decided in law right now and it's no. Right. Well, can
can an AI model count as the author? Yeah, I think no. Right now, it's no.
Yeah, the copyright office has ruled a couple times, I think, at least. Yeah.
About uh as far as go, there's there's multiple presidents here. I think there's one guy in particular, we'll
look it up later maybe. But like there's one guy in particular who has submitted
multiple times to be like, okay, this is
definitely like there's one for sure, guys. But I used an AI this time and
this time this AI is sentient for sure, guys. and and the copyright office is
like, "Stop coming back here and put on some pants." So, there's
precedent against that dude. Yeah. Yeah, that makes sense. But, I mean, I think
that the the like, do do we get to keep copyright in an era where all these
companies are just kind of gobbling everything up anyway? Like that those
are the interesting lawsuits that are moving through. The big one being OpenAI
versus the New York Times. Yeah. Uh, it's so like CHAGBT has been out
since 2022 and obviously transformer-based LLMs. They were out
for a while. I mean, they were in research scenarios, but attention is all
you need. It's been Yeah, it's 2017. Yeah, I've done research. I can't
believe that this question is still kind of as open as it is. I would have
expected there to be some precedent set and a ruling set by by now, but we're
still just kind of like, you know, Meta just is also going through proceedings
where they're like, you you literally
torrented like every book ever. I mean, not not, you know, but like a massive
archive of books. Yeah. Yeah. And like that's the that's the and this I'm not
the first person to reference this at all, but u one of the co-founders I
think of Reddit Mhm. Alex was Alexian.
Yeah, I don't remember the exact details of this story, but I believe he was
pirating um like research papers and
then making them available to people for free, I think. Yeah. And then he was
going to get thrown in jail forever and ended up
unaliving himself. Oh. Over it because it like ruined his whole life. Wait,
Aaron Schwarz? Are you talking about Aaron Schwarz? Oh, okay. Yeah. Yeah.
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. No, I'm familiar. Yeah. Yeah. And then now a company's
doing it on a much grander scale and we're all like, "Ah, you know what?
Seems fine." That totally reminds me. I saw an article recently like referencing
Aaron Schwarz and like how bonkers it is that it's like actually kind of similar.
Well, it it's it's crazy that that was the case just a few years ago. Yeah. And
really not that long ago. He was his entire life was going to be ruined. Yep.
And now we have every tech company ever
is just gobbling up. I mean, I had as
one of the points I wanted to talk about these like AI web crawlers that are
taking up tons of bandwidth. Oh yeah. I
we've referenced it a couple times on TechLink, but there are like a number of
studies now and like reports from administrators being like, "Yeah, we
looked into it and it's like 80% of our web traffic is just AI crawlers." So
regardless, we can I don't want to bash on AI completely because I feel like
there's an argument here and like for
for AI for embedding it in society at
every level for even maybe deleting all
IP law and the argument would be is if
it's actually if it if it actually leads to this scenario that Jack Dorsey and
apparently Elon Musk and whoever because Elon Musk tweeted did as well. I agree
to delete all IP law which is yeah uh if
the argument by uh putting being put forward by them that like okay this is
actually going to help us it's actually going to lead to a situation where we
benefit do we like if you could know
deleting all IP law will lead to a kind of a utopian society where you don't
need money. It feels like, you know, there's a bunch of stories that are like
this where you have utopian society and then like in the basement of city hall
there's just like a a terrible demon
machine that is like the reason why everything's okay. I feel like this is
one of those scenarios. I I don't think um and I'm decently confident this is
the route it's going to go to. I I I don't think deleting IP law is like the
way to go. I I feel like what they're trying to do is like gambit an
overcorrection. So, they're trying to be like, "Let's delete everything," hoping
that they'll end up somewhere 50% of the way, if that makes sense. Because I I
don't think they think that's going to happen either, to be completely honest.
But I think they're trying to do the like Trumpian move of like I'm going to
ask for this and then I'll send end up somewhere here. You know, we'll delete
half of IP law. Yeah. Well, I think it's going to be IP reform. Uh because like a
lot of the laws that were made weren't even really made uh in the internet age,
let alone let alone the the like AI
webcrawwler crazy situation we are now. So it's likely a lot of modernization
and reform that needs to happen. Uh I mean we even have this problem with like
YouTube videos. Um like there's this huge question mark of like can I have a
clip from a movie in my video? Yeah.
Like maybe. But also maybe not. Yeah.
I've been scared to put anything. Yeah. That could go over the line. But then
like all short form content seems to just be able to use whatever music they
want. Yeah. And like that seems fine. That's completely different, Luke.
That's totally different. One is watched by young people. And the other they
don't have money. Why do they matter? They don't. They're too dumb. They're young and dumb. They don't know about
copyright. Yeah. Elijah, one of the parallels that I would draw is to
patents. And it's not perfect, but it's it's an interesting argument because
there's a huge debate on whether or not patents have driven or stifled
innovation in the past. And I think it really depends on
the time, the country, uh the the field
of innovation. Like it it depends on tons of stuff. A lot of people, this is
the Wright brothers conversation I warned you about. A lot of people look at the Wright brothers and are like, "Oh
my god, they brought in a this is amazing, right? We we didn't think we
were going to fly for a long time." And then the
air sick immediately turned into patent
trolls as far as I could be wrong about this. A little bit of online research
led me to find that they got their patent and then just
just wrecked everyone else as much as they could and like very close to
stopped innovating. Oh jeez. They they like got aviation off the ground and
then just tried to make money off of what they did. Did you get this info
from Grock? No. Okay. But there's also
like in my opinion the which I don't
think is as common anymore, but being an inventor as your trade as like what you
do probably became a thing because of
things like patents and IP law. Oh yeah, he's an inventory. Like no one has
thought of, you know, an automatic egg making machine or something. But like
it's a chicken. At one point IP law,
copyright law, patent law, whatever. uh spurred innovation and if we get rid of
it, you're worried that we would lose. Well, but there's but there's sto
there's stories in both sides because like let's come back to more IP specific
law, right? Um Disney kind of owned children's entertainment for a long
time, most of our lives and a lot of
before it. Um and now they're losing but they're not losing because you can use
Mickey Mouse in other content now because that is a thing that happened.
That was like a tiny splash. A bunch of games all came out all at once right
when that got lifted that all featured Mickey Mouse and none of them were good.
Everyone stopped caring almost immediately. No one talks about it
anymore at all. And Bluey is just completely taking their life. Heck yeah.
Have you watched Blueie? I have seen some Bluey. Blue is freaking It makes me
cry. They like lost their ability to protect their IP on Mickey, right? And
it didn't matter. And that's why the MCU
didn't is isn't as good anymore cuz they
they're losing their because they stop they didn't stop uh Steamboat Willie
from escaping. He was going to join the Avengers.
Steamboat Willie was Yeah, honestly I would go watch that. I would I haven't
watched a Marvel movie in many years. If
Steamboat Willie joined the Avengers Avengers, I would go. I mean, I I will
say that like one argument for the deleting of IP law is the the the few
times there's been a couple times where Disney Point puts out a project and it
seems like the entire point of the project is just to brag about how much
IP they have. Like did you see the Ralph Rex the internet movie like quite a few
years ago? Did you you saw it? I think so. Okay. Yeah. It was just the whole
movie just seemed like they were like wait Ralph. So there's Wreckit Ralph and
then the sequel was Ralph Breaks the Internet. Wreck-It Ralph, they had a
couple recognizable people. There was Sonic, it was there, and like Bowser and
stuff, but then they go to the internet in the second one and they they go to
like Disney the Disney website and it's just like, "Wow, what a magical place.
Look, there's Star Wars and there's these and Lilo and Stitch and like
they're just showing all the princesses are there." So it was basically like
look at all these things that used to be cool. That watching that movie made me
think like this is kind of like if I if if I watched that movie and then Jack
Dorsey called me up and like we should delete all IP law and I'd be like Jackie
you're so smart why don't we talk more often. No I please it kind of makes me
feel that way because it's like we're heading into this AI
future where if AI gets power like
there's kind of two paths that I see. Yeah.
Um, one is we lock this down. And we're
like, AI companies, you're going all over the place. You're you're slurping
up everyone's stuff and making slop. We need to stop this. You if you want to
train on material, you got to license it. You got to pay all the people you've
already trained on their material. Like, like either that that's not going to happen. But like that's either we kind
of move in that direction or things just kind of keep progressing as they have
been and copyright and IP just kind of
become this kind of nebulous like like
the the walls get torn down a lot more. Yeah. Uh and it's a lot more
sketchy as to what's infringing and what's not. You think we're going there?
I think we're going there. So Jack Dorsey is going to mostly maybe get his
way. I think he's going to partially win. I don't think, like I said earlier,
I don't think we're going to be deleting IP law, but I think there will be significant reform because I I don't see
America effectively just kind of being
willing to lose the AI race because I
see this as their in in their opinion, this is this is computers. This is uh
they have to fight again. So, I I think I agree with you if we're talking about
like the powers that be. Yeah. the uh
you know tech corporations, government, they definitely don't want to lose to
China. Yeah. The question then is what
what do how do the people feel about it? Oh yeah. Because every time I encounter
sentiment about AI and copyright online,
this is why this tweet was so interesting because the vast majority of
the discourse around AI and copyright online is like, yeah, there these AI
companies are stealing from people. Well, they are. Yeah. Yeah. And you have
the tech bros, you know, whatever coming out every once in a while being like, we
need to chill, guys. we like how are we going to get exponential growth if we
don't steal all this copyrighted stuff. Um and but they don't usually like
that's not getting a ton of engagement. It's like this but this is saying the
quiet part out loud pretty much. It's cuz it's because it doesn't feel good.
They are stealing stuff. They are taking other people's work and they are
directly aggressively profiting off of it. The
well profiting off of investment I guess most of these companies are really not
making a profit. Yeah. They're not they're not taking the copyright machine
and putting it into a different machine and it's like wow it's chewing up the
copyright and spitting out profit. They're tricking people into thinking
the copyright machine putting a cool little bow on it and being like you want
to give me money for nothing. Yeah. Sick. Um
the bubble man. Yeah, the bubble's pretty sorry you you
were saying something though. No, it's just it doesn't feel good. Yeah, it's
morally I think it's like bad. you're
you're taking significant work from people especially h and we already see
this from Google right a lot of small brands are getting screwed over by these
search engines and now also by AI systems because everything's
intercepting like even right now if you're using Google search not even if
you're in a chat program if you're using Google search it will give you an AI
summary at the top and the AI summary will often make it so that you do not
have to go through and click onto one of those websites and that is making it so
that independent small time research, writing, whatever, is all effectively
being defunded by these platforms that are using them in order to succeed,
right? And that is a crazy concept.
Yeah, because like, okay, we might win the AI race, but at what cost? The cost
of like literally everything else. Um, I was going to say like, okay, yeah,
definitely at the cost of like, you know, smaller creators, smaller like
copyright holders or whatever. uh smaller companies that are trying to
get up in the SEO rankings and they just can't. But also at the cost of like I
feel like our minds there have been some uh studies looking at uh people who use
AI a lot versus people who don't use AI a lot and it's like looking at their
like problem solving ability novel task.
Yeah. They're worse at it. And I I know that when I go to Google something it
gives me an AR overview. I know how to Google stuff. My whole job is like
researching stuff and like reporting on it. So like I've learned how to be
really good good at like Google foo. Yeah. But most people are not and
they're going to be even worse now if they don't even have to click into like
one site to see what the to see the answer or what the quote unquote answer
because it might be it might be fake. And it's it's crazy that we we all know
that AI hallucinates and just makes stuff up all the time, but a huge
portion of the internet, like genuinely a lot of people seem to be going under
the the route of blindlessly verifying things with AI. Mhm. So like you see
this on the tweeters, which I'm still going to call it, um where someone will
be like Grock, is this true? Don't call
it the tweeters. The tweeters. Just call it Twitter. Twitter. All right.
But they'll ask like Grock or Perplexity or whatever other ones will respond to
tweets if something is true and then they will just take that fully at face
value. I which is brutal. I made a joke about this in tech the other day cuz
yeah I've seen this where someone makes a claim and someone's like I don't think
that's true and they're like well it is cuz look at this website and then they
say hey Grock is this true and it's like just click on the website just Google
it. Why are you asking an AI that may or may not lie to your face? Like they've
gotten a lot better, but they still hallucinate enough that it's like, why
are you trusting? They hallucinate a lot. Yeah. And then it was even worse is
the people who are like, I collaborated with Chat GBT on on this and then they
like post some giant freaking thing. It's like what was your participation in
this? I was wondering about whether this is the case. So I asked Chat GBT and it
told me that. So, I guess ChatGpt likes this and it's like, "Guys, stop." Yeah.
The confirmation bias is crazy, too, because a lot of the chat programs will
try to detect what you're leaning towards and just affirm it. Yeah, cuz
people like those responses. We've done a lot of bashing on AI so
far. Yeah. But I deserves it. Well, it
does, but I know that you and I Well, I
don't know, but I have a suspicion that you and I share an appreciation for some
of its upsides as well. And I want to talk about that after this segue to our
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Don't worry about it. Critical hit.
You said moist. Don't worry about it. It's fine. Oh, moist. Critical.
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Seems like a new in your ivory castle. Oh, yeah. Up on the hill. You're safe
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Okay. And all of the pipes for my building go to this corner where my unit
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really? Separated the the like shingles on the roof and it rained in my
apartment. Oh my gosh. So, you know, the ivory tower ain't that great either. Oh
jeez. Yeah, you need to find a different ivory tower. Yeah, maybe an ebony tower.
So, the atmospheric river hit. It overloaded the drain system. My patio
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morning multiple times over the past few years to find water streaming into my to
my uh house. I've used Vessie shoes
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girlfriend Emma went out and bought a pair just cuz she thought they sounded
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she loves them too. Just up in that castle just imagining daydreaming.
Yeah. Now, for me, my vesties have been very helpful. They kept my feet dry
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suit. Vessie, make it happen. These shoes work with any outfit. They're very
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below if you're tired of squishy socks. Okay, now AI. Essentially, the argument
we're talking about is AI safety versus innovation speed because it's like, is
is it more worth going for the moral argument of this sucks, we're stealing
things from people, or is it more worth noting to China, right? And this is why
I think the reason why there hasn't been precedent set is these are such
different weights that it's it's hard
to and like the same person can want
both sides of it very deeply. Yeah.
Yeah, the same person can want to not
steal all thought creation from humanity
ever and also not want to lose this war
because if you lose this then this side didn't matter anyways. So it's like it's
especially hard because you can like as
you were saying that my first kind of like gut reaction is like but what about
principles you know like there's kind of like you know the utilitarian thing of
like this is what's necessary in order to win but I'm like oh but at what cost?
What if we lose our soul as as a as a society? But at the same time, it's
like, well, if China develops a super
intelligence that kind of hacks the entire world and makes everything, you
know, whatever they want it to be, then we won't have a society. That's like
very far on the end of the possibility. Yeah, but I mean there's also the the
problem of how consumers act about
things, which is everyone will say online, not everyone, I'm exaggerating,
a lot of people will say online that they want the uh, you know, don't steal
everything from everyone route, but then if a company that does do that releases
a model that's better, they will use it.
Well, and yeah, that's and like that the
precedent of that is like carved into every stone on the planet. Like they
when you say they will use it users
if if if everyone knows that many uh
things are made in sweat shops by slaves and they keep buying them. Um people
won't like uh gambling but they'll watch kick. People won't like a certain thing
but then if the thing is better they'll buy it anyways. And I guess this kind of
comes into a part of the conversation that I wanted to address, which was the
usefulness of AI, the the pros of AI,
because I remember I had friends that
are not techy people. Um, one is a teacher. And in like
2023, like shortly after CHACPD is released, I go and talk to him and he's
like, "Yeah, Chachi, I use chatbt all the I'm like, first of all, I was like,
you know what chatbt is because these are like not techy people. Yeah. And
he's like, yeah, use it to help me like make lessons. User growth in history. It
has to have hit a lot of people, right? Yeah. And he and he was using it to make
lesson plans for his kids and like coming up with ideas for stuff. And I was like, wow. Like cuz that that was at
a point where even I wasn't really I I haven't found it to be super super
useful for my specific uh work. Yeah. Um my my dad's a plumbing
instructor and they use it for Yeah. lesson plans. Yeah. And once it gets
like once these actual like multimodal updates get out like it's Gemini live is
now available with the live camera feed. Yeah. I think chat GPT has I know you
can feed images but I think they have a camera mode for the Gemini for the live
mode too. There's um I think a lot of people dramatically misuse AI. Um and
like for instance like I I say that about my dad's lessons plan lesson plans
for plumbing and people are like oh hopefully it doesn't like teach people to go outside of code and it's like well
no he's controlling those aspects. He's using it to build the structure right to
build the pacing to come up with the document that he can put the information
on. He's using it to help organizational skills those types of things. The way
that I'll often use it is to review my
output and give me feedback on my output. I don't use it for output, but
like what kind of output are you talking about? My most common use case is I will
write an email that is like I sure hope
this goes well. Uh so but I you know
maybe I have to be rather serious or whatever in the tone of the email, but I
want to make sure that I get my point across but not come across as aggressive or whatever else. So, I'll ask it for a
sentiment analysis of the email. And then I might ask it like if I'm like,
okay, that's not what I wanted someone to get from this. Yeah. And it got that
from this, then I'll be like, okay, how would you change it to get it there? And
then I won't use its output, but I'll use it to help guide me in that
direction. Did I mention lizards too many times? Well, like sometimes your
email is pretty good, but you seem weirdly focused on lizards.
Maybe you should draw back on the lizards. I think they're not like a reptile person.
maybe cats. We we've had um I I think it's also a good um Kickstarter of
sorts, like for for writer's block, for instance. If if you have to write um a
video on something, you could use it to give you your skeleton. I found I've
tried to get it to write YouTube videos. Man, it sucks. I don't know if you've
tried. I've used it a couple times when I like can't think of a word for
something or like I'm like writing a joke and I'm like, "Oh man, this is like
this." And I'm just like drawing a blank and I'm like, "What's this thing? What's
something like when this guy says this and then another guy comes at it like
that and they're like, "Maybe this." And I'm like, "Okay, thank you." Yeah, that makes sense. But but writing whole
scripts, no. No good. But you can use it
as like a research assistant. Um, again,
there's huge pitfalls there because you shouldn't just believe what it outputs,
but you can use it as like a kicking off point. Mhm. So like something that I've
done is like okay here's a topic what are the like key fields of interest in
this topic and it'll give me that list and then I'll go off and learn things
about those. All of the AI chatbots now have like deep research modes. It does a
good job of like giving you kind of a beginner summary of stuff. But if you
know a lot about a topic and you're like what was the finding of this research
like in the 19 whatever and it's like they found up this they found this stuff
that I just made up because I'm an AI and you're like well I know that's not
true. So it's like but that's why like when you mentioned earlier in the show
that it's getting better with like hallucinations and stuff a little bit.
It's only a little bit. I think it's getting better at convincing people that
it's not doing it. Yeah. Um I I don't
know. I don't personally think it's
getting dramatically better overall. Um,
there are measures that it's getting a bit better, but I really think it's just
getting better at convincing people and it's getting better at using slightly
more vague language and stuff like that to get away from um actually being
pointed as doing things wrong because I catch it hallucinating stuff like Oh,
yeah. all the time. I will say that I've
I've I've tr I've I've just started trying to use it a little bit to help me
research techlength stories. Um it's kind of like one of the steps in the
process and it has not been it has not been very uh useful. But most of the
time it's not hallucinating fake stuff as much as it's like I'm asking for uh
stories that are recent and it like brings me something from a month ago.
Here's something from last quarter. Yeah. Yeah. On balance, if you look at
the whole field, do you feel like the majority of
AI tools that are available are like
helpful or just kind of taking up space and taking up resources? Whoa. Okay.
Majority of AI tools. So, if you include every AI tool in that pool, then
honestly, no. There's a lot of compute, a lot of resources being taken up. Yeah.
And that they're able to do that
because these companies vacuumed up IP,
vacuumed up copyright, and massive investment because that's the the hotness right now. I think most of the
tools are are garbage and we'll lose and we'll die. And that is how these like
very startup focused fields work. So that's pretty natural. I don't actually
think that's weird. I don't think that's AI specific. I think that's just that's
true big new fancy field with lots of investment dollars and everyone trying
to dive in all at the same time. A lot of those people are going to make garbage for for the handful of like
crypto projects that were actually kind of cool and maybe like we could they did
exist. They did like the idea of having some like records and stuff on a
blockchain system that was cool. Y but for every one of those there were
250,000
uh rugpull yeah garbage things. So it's the same for AI. But maybe that all
won't matter if you we we only need one.
We only need one ASI. Artificial super
intelligence and then it'll all be worth it. Ask. You
can do it. Yeah. What? Yeah. ASKI. Artificial super general intelligence.
I've never heard that together. I've heard AGI and ASI. You can't just put
them together like that. We were talking earlier about innovators. That's true.
I'm an inventor. Wow. Yeah. Here's a patent, sir. Thank you. That was a You
just witnessed innovation. Jack Dorsey, this is what you're trying to kill.
Yeah. Stop it. Think of the children. So, maybe Jack Dorsey's right and we'll
have a utopia and none of us will own any IP and everything will be fine. And
maybe Jack Dorsey and Elon Musk and Sam
Alman, especially
Samman, are going to enslave all of us. Yeah, definitely. Especially Sam Alman.
And those are the two options. Elon just wants to impregnate all of us. He can be
persuasive. I think this has been a huge wakeup call
for people about uh Chinese position on value chain. America has traditionally
been positioned very high on the value chain and then I think in a lot of North
American views u you you go down the
value chain from America and end up in China and and a few other countries at
the bottom of the value chain. But I think this and uh the tariff war going
on and a few other things have revealed that China is much higher on the value
chain than we previously thought and has the active ability now to take rungs on
the value chain. Yes. And I think one of those Yeah.
No, I was just saying that because I was thinking about a recent story that just came up with their uh they have uh chips
that they say are more performant than NVIDIA's equivalent. But anyways, go
ahead. Yeah. I'm like, I don't know about that being true, but they're
they're progressing very quickly in a lot of these fields, CPUs, GPUs, AI
technology, movies, random one. Um, lots
and lots and lots of fields where they're they're really taking major steps forward. One of those places,
insane story that I I don't understand how it doesn't get talked about more,
but uh the quote that I have here is Ford CEO Jim Farley admitted he's been
driving a Xiai SU7 for 6 months and
doesn't want to give it up. Wow. The Ford CEO drives a $30,000 Chinese
electricade vehicle, sorry, Chinese-made electric vehicle. Um, unavailable in the
US due to tariffs and safety regulation issues. Is this something that he
revealed uh on a podcast like like of
his own valition? We are now. We're basically the Ford CEO. Yes, he did. It
was of his own valition. Why would he do that? I feel like that's of a motor
company mentioned that he didn't want to give up a $30,000 vehicle from a
competing company because it was so good. That should be Is he about to cash
out or something? Like what? Stunning wakeup call to people about the
automotive industry outside of America. Yeah. I think in EVs in particular, oh
yeah, China is like leapfrogging the auto falling apart and have panel gaps
that I can shove my fist through. Um and are like,
you know, they're they're just partying on Slack sharing people's videos and
stuff like that. So like if you're And I think that's a big part of the problem
too where like when you when you think about Chinese products, people traditionally go like, "Oh, but like
they're going to steal your information, right?" It's like, "Yeah, but we we know
that our companies are Yeah, for sure. Well, yeah. Tons of documented evidence.
That's a whole another that's a whole another conversation I feel like which
I'm still I don't know what to think about cuz that's been the main reason
why I'm like ah don't I don't want to use that like Chinese phone or whatever.
Who knows what data they're sending.
But I know my data is going out to all these other companies. So like so at a
certain point it's like this is the future. This is what they're
saying. They're like IP doesn't matter. Your personal information doesn't
matter. You'll own nothing, including your own personal information and your
own thoughts, if you can't sell them anymore, your own link and you'll be
happy. Yeah, but we'll have to see. I don't know if this tweet that Jack
Dorsey reposted is going to come to pass in which so he tweeted he he retweeted a
interview with Microsoft AI CEO Mustafa
Sullean who says the future isn't UBI
universal basic income it's UBP universal basic
provision abundant intelligence as the new currency you won't need more money
because knowledge won't be something you buy not cash capability we won't need
cash because we'll have AI assistants who can do everything for us. You don't
need to go to the store and buy a pop, a
soda. Your AI will just synthesize it for you. Okay, this feels like that
South Park episode where Randy can't fix his oven because he can't fix the oven
door. And then the the like handyman
people end up being the wealthiest people in society because no one can fix
anything because no one knows how to do anything. M um and they they I don't
remember if this happens in the episode, but I'm going to make it up, I guess. Um
I'm hallucinating. Um but they they like ask an AI to fix the door, and it just
tries to teach him how to do it, but he's like, "No, I want you to fix the door." He keeps giving them steps, but
he's like, "No, I want you to fix the door." Like, "We don't have things that can do our laundry right now. We don't
have things that can build houses. We don't have things that can fix plumbing.
We don't have things that can do any of that kind of stuff." It's like he's talking about provisions of like this
thing that can draw Studio Gibli for me. um or like write a terrible email or a
really really really bad YouTube video that would get one view. Like is that
really I'm really excited about that being a universal provision. Thanks,
bro. I think that's what makes the whole conversation just so so hard to come
down on one side of because it's so uncertain. You need your apartment to
not leak. Is is is chat GPT going to help you with that? Yeah. Like it's hard
and there's there's droughts and and uh like there's peaks and valleys, too.
Like sometimes it seems like the AI whole thing is just hype and sometimes
it's like oh this is okay it's happening. Stunning. Yeah. Yeah. Well,
we're not going to solve it in this podcast. No. But maybe in the next one.
So subscribe possibly. Uh I I wouldn't want to miss it. It might happen. Maybe
we'll invent AGI on right here. A SGI.
Watch out. Open AAI.
We're going to delete your IP. Hey, thanks for watching. Uh, that was a talk
linked. Uh, subscribe to Techl. Uh,
see you later. Maybe I'll do another one of these in half a year. Nope. Never
happening. Never again. Bye.