WEBVTT 00:00:00.160 --> 00:00:06.080 between me and brandon i think it's fair to say we've received literally hundreds 00:00:04.240 --> 00:00:11.599 of requests to weigh in on the controversy surrounding red digital 00:00:08.080 --> 00:00:13.920 cinema and the expensive proprietary red 00:00:11.599 --> 00:00:18.720 minimag media format that they sell for use in their cameras now it recently 00:00:16.240 --> 00:00:24.000 came to light through gini meg a maker of third-party non-certified mags that 00:00:22.000 --> 00:00:29.439 contrary to what red has been telling us over the years the red mini mag is in 00:00:26.240 --> 00:00:31.840 fact not a special product that was 00:00:29.439 --> 00:00:37.120 developed after countless hours of r d but rather a simple consumer SSD with an 00:00:35.120 --> 00:00:41.040 interface adapter in a fancy enclosure now i had assumed that 00:00:39.280 --> 00:00:44.559 people would lose interest in this story and i decided to just leave it alone but 00:00:43.040 --> 00:00:49.680 it's escalated to the point where genetech's original video has gone viral 00:00:47.120 --> 00:00:54.000 to the point where red ceo jared land has had to issue statements to the media 00:00:52.000 --> 00:01:00.079 defending red's position and his products so then it's time to break our 00:00:57.039 --> 00:01:02.960 silence and break this down for y'all 00:01:00.079 --> 00:01:09.920 starting of course with a breakdown of our own 960 gig mini mag 00:01:07.600 --> 00:01:14.799 time for some surgery brought to you by the Corsair hydrox 00:01:12.720 --> 00:01:19.119 Corsair's new hydrox series of custom cooling components includes water blocks 00:01:16.720 --> 00:01:26.790 reservoirs fittings adapters and more check them out at the link below 00:01:29.840 --> 00:01:36.799 to kick things off we're gonna need a torx number six bit to remove the four 00:01:33.439 --> 00:01:38.159 screws on the bottom of our red mini mag 00:01:36.799 --> 00:01:44.079 step two pry open the aluminum enclosure 00:01:42.799 --> 00:01:48.960 step four remove the interface adapter which as 00:01:46.479 --> 00:01:52.159 you guys can see is just a simple pin to pin 00:01:50.240 --> 00:01:57.200 connection adapter it's uh there's no logic built into it whatsoever 00:01:54.880 --> 00:02:01.600 and step four five i don't know whatever step we're on 00:01:59.280 --> 00:02:05.439 inspect the SSD which is uh there's your controller 00:02:02.880 --> 00:02:10.640 there's your dram cache there's one two three four five six seven eight nand 00:02:08.080 --> 00:02:15.760 flash module so this is a high capacity red mag it's a storefly 300 ce whatever 00:02:14.319 --> 00:02:23.200 the hell that is so no in fact it is not special hardware 00:02:20.480 --> 00:02:28.000 but this isn't a surprise to me and it shouldn't be a surprise to you now 00:02:25.360 --> 00:02:32.239 shockingly i actually can't find any tear downs of red mini mags online 00:02:30.480 --> 00:02:34.959 that weren't done in the last few days since this story broke 00:02:33.920 --> 00:02:40.000 but i've known about this for years and i've 00:02:37.440 --> 00:02:45.760 even complained publicly that red is selling regular old msata ssds out of 00:02:43.440 --> 00:02:50.400 scene markups they're not even pci express 00:02:46.720 --> 00:02:52.080 m SATA ssds in a fancy red enclosure oh 00:02:50.400 --> 00:02:56.400 and you don't even get red it's like it's a black enclosure if you don't buy 00:02:53.760 --> 00:03:01.920 the 480 or the 960 gig it just took until now to blow up 00:03:00.319 --> 00:03:07.040 why well it seems to come from this video 00:03:04.560 --> 00:03:11.280 from ginitech a small time maker of knockoff megs and that's actually the 00:03:09.360 --> 00:03:15.519 biggest reason that i had intended to ignore this whole thing i have no desire 00:03:13.519 --> 00:03:19.440 to draw attention to them especially because given what i know about social 00:03:17.360 --> 00:03:24.239 media marketing it wouldn't surprise me if some of the outrage over this is 00:03:21.680 --> 00:03:28.640 actually bots created by ginny tech themselves but whether that's the case 00:03:26.400 --> 00:03:33.280 or not here we are so let's take a quick look at both the valid points and the 00:03:31.360 --> 00:03:38.400 misleading arguments that they make in their video that they position as an 00:03:35.519 --> 00:03:42.799 expose but that is ultimately designed to put pressure on red and then 00:03:40.239 --> 00:03:47.599 ultimately sell you their product so right out of the gate they present forum 00:03:44.640 --> 00:03:53.360 posts from red users about failed mags as evidence that jaredland's reliability 00:03:50.480 --> 00:03:56.879 justification for the cost of a redmag is bullspit 00:03:54.959 --> 00:04:02.799 now the problem with that is that without knowing the sample size 00:03:59.200 --> 00:04:05.200 a dozen or even a hundred failures is 00:04:02.799 --> 00:04:10.000 not necessarily an indication that there is a significant problem with product 00:04:07.519 --> 00:04:15.519 quality or validation the second problem is the way that gini tech repeatedly 00:04:12.239 --> 00:04:17.680 attacks red for their made in the usa 00:04:15.519 --> 00:04:22.639 claims now red didn't meet the requirements and that's pretty scummy 00:04:20.479 --> 00:04:26.880 but to their credit at least they backed down removing the message from their 00:04:24.320 --> 00:04:31.520 site and their products so given that it is hypocritical at best for ginny to 00:04:29.840 --> 00:04:36.000 hammer away at this point when their site still seems to suggest that their 00:04:33.919 --> 00:04:41.120 products originate in the uk and as red actually alluded to in a 00:04:38.320 --> 00:04:44.960 court filing ginnymag even used to make similar claims about their products 00:04:42.720 --> 00:04:49.600 being made in the uk when their components are obviously sourced from 00:04:47.120 --> 00:04:56.560 other countries in a similar manner now as for the 480 and 960 versus 512 gig 00:04:54.080 --> 00:04:58.800 and one terabyte advertised capacity scandal 00:04:57.919 --> 00:05:04.479 red really should have communicated this better but they also haven't said 00:05:02.400 --> 00:05:12.479 anything outright false here the raw capacity of any 480 Gigabyte SSD is 00:05:09.759 --> 00:05:17.360 gigabytes that's just the way that nand flash manufacturing works and it's up to 00:05:14.880 --> 00:05:20.080 the integrator in this case vertian 00:05:18.880 --> 00:05:25.919 to determine how much of that 512 gigs or one 00:05:23.199 --> 00:05:29.360 terabyte as it were to allocate to spare area 00:05:26.800 --> 00:05:36.320 spare area improves both performance and longevity now red never should have 00:05:32.400 --> 00:05:38.400 advertised them as 512 gigs if all 512 00:05:36.320 --> 00:05:42.560 gigs weren't accessible but they weren't 00:05:39.600 --> 00:05:49.280 technically wrong because physically there is 512 gigs of flash on the drive 00:05:46.320 --> 00:05:56.240 now as for the claim about the quality of the non-commodity media that red uses 00:05:52.560 --> 00:05:57.280 so mine is a virgin storefly with some 00:05:56.240 --> 00:06:04.160 toshiba nan chips on it it's fine and from an industrial brand 00:06:02.080 --> 00:06:09.759 but neither the nand flash nor the controller is anything super special 00:06:07.280 --> 00:06:15.199 of course a big part of red story is the firmware so then is that special 00:06:13.199 --> 00:06:21.199 this is where things get a bit nuanced ginitech is 100 correct in asserting 00:06:18.560 --> 00:06:26.080 that the commodity ssds that red's using contain standard firmware 00:06:23.520 --> 00:06:30.639 but he doesn't say that they don't also contain extra bits one thing he doesn't 00:06:28.639 --> 00:06:36.560 show in his video is that while the camera does recognize any random msata 00:06:34.080 --> 00:06:41.280 SSD in a mag enclosure popped into the side of it it actually will not write to 00:06:38.960 --> 00:06:45.680 it at full speed unless the user takes extra steps to fool the camera into 00:06:43.440 --> 00:06:48.960 thinking that it is in fact a genuine mag 00:06:47.199 --> 00:06:54.560 so the main problem that we run into here is ginitech's use of real 00:06:52.080 --> 00:07:00.560 information that red's hardware and firmware are not in fact special to draw 00:06:57.520 --> 00:07:03.440 a misleading conclusion no evidence is 00:07:00.560 --> 00:07:09.440 actually given to demonstrate that these low-cost consumer-grade ssds 00:07:06.400 --> 00:07:12.479 the camera's functionality and 00:07:09.440 --> 00:07:14.479 the faking of customized firmware is 00:07:12.479 --> 00:07:19.360 really no different from the way that an NVIDIA board partner fakes the model 00:07:17.360 --> 00:07:22.319 number of their reference board to include their vendor information because 00:07:21.120 --> 00:07:27.759 here's the thing once the product ships in a Gigabyte or 00:07:24.880 --> 00:07:31.440 an evga box and is covered by that vendor's warranty rather than the 00:07:29.599 --> 00:07:38.000 warranty of whatever factory built the launch boards for NVIDIA it is in fact a 00:07:34.479 --> 00:07:40.400 Gigabyte or an evga or an ASUS product 00:07:38.000 --> 00:07:44.639 even if the different model number basically amounted to altering a couple 00:07:42.639 --> 00:07:50.319 of strings in the firmware so that it's detected by the software correctly a red 00:07:46.880 --> 00:07:53.440 meg becomes a red product not a verdian 00:07:50.319 --> 00:07:55.599 or micron product as soon as red ships 00:07:53.440 --> 00:08:00.960 it to you with their support attached to it no foul play 00:07:58.479 --> 00:08:05.840 at least that would be the case if red hadn't been so disingenuous about the 00:08:04.080 --> 00:08:08.879 way that they've marketed these things over the years 00:08:07.199 --> 00:08:13.919 now i've been fairly focused on the way that gini tech has misled the cinema 00:08:11.280 --> 00:08:20.160 community and massaged their message up till this point but red is far from 00:08:17.199 --> 00:08:26.960 blameless here let's change gears now as a techie i'm not too offended by 00:08:24.080 --> 00:08:30.720 some of red's claims for example that a physical adapter couldn't have been 00:08:28.479 --> 00:08:34.159 created between the original redmag and the current minimag 00:08:32.320 --> 00:08:40.560 it could have been done quite easily given that both of them are just msata 00:08:37.039 --> 00:08:43.360 ssds in a whoops fancy machined box 00:08:40.560 --> 00:08:47.040 but the thing is adapters do add more points of failure and i wouldn't 00:08:45.279 --> 00:08:51.519 necessarily want to support that either so whatever 00:08:49.120 --> 00:08:57.360 the one thing that really annoys me is reds claim that they spend millions of 00:08:54.560 --> 00:09:01.839 dollars on r d around their media recording now if red is talking about 00:08:59.839 --> 00:09:07.360 red code raw their proprietary compressed raw file format 00:09:04.160 --> 00:09:09.839 sure i'll buy that it's kind of awesome 00:09:07.360 --> 00:09:12.959 but ginny tech makes a very fair point in their video pointing out that the 00:09:11.519 --> 00:09:18.800 customer already paid for red raw when they 00:09:15.600 --> 00:09:22.240 bought the camera the red mini mag uses 00:09:18.800 --> 00:09:24.720 nothing but a standard SATA interface 00:09:22.240 --> 00:09:29.360 and red would be crazy to use anything other than SATA because SATA which has 00:09:27.760 --> 00:09:35.920 had millions of dollars spent on its development just not by red is so well supported 00:09:33.360 --> 00:09:40.480 across multiple platforms including the cameras that record to them and the pcs 00:09:38.800 --> 00:09:44.800 and macs that need to read from them during footage ingest 00:09:43.279 --> 00:09:50.480 the other really offensive thing that jared hasn't been entirely forthright 00:09:46.640 --> 00:09:52.800 about is exactly what aspect of red's 00:09:50.480 --> 00:09:55.760 firmware development has been infringed by ginitech 00:09:54.399 --> 00:10:02.399 in spite of all the evidence to the contrary he still seems to be 00:09:59.040 --> 00:10:05.600 at least suggesting that it is some kind 00:10:02.399 --> 00:10:08.640 of proprietary SSD firmware 00:10:05.600 --> 00:10:11.839 algorithm but it seems far more likely 00:10:08.640 --> 00:10:14.560 to me that it's simply a drm scheme 00:10:11.839 --> 00:10:20.399 now to be clear from a legal standpoint that makes him right 00:10:16.399 --> 00:10:22.079 his product has been infringed just 00:10:20.399 --> 00:10:29.279 not in a way that makes me feel bad for him at all calling the way that the meg is written 00:10:24.959 --> 00:10:31.120 to red's own is misleading at best 00:10:29.279 --> 00:10:35.519 let's break down how it works this is a really nice video from jersey 00:10:33.040 --> 00:10:39.920 filmmaker covering the unusual way that red writes video files to a meg 00:10:38.000 --> 00:10:45.839 basically every time you press the record button 00:10:42.480 --> 00:10:48.240 you create a folder instead of a single 00:10:45.839 --> 00:10:53.120 large clip and that folder is going to be full of as many four gig files as it 00:10:50.720 --> 00:10:57.680 takes to record the footage until you press stop your editing software then 00:10:55.200 --> 00:11:00.480 automatically stitches these many clips together 00:10:58.959 --> 00:11:04.800 now if you've been around the block as many times as i have you'll know that 00:11:02.399 --> 00:11:10.560 this is nothing but a simple work around for the four gig file size limit of the 00:11:07.120 --> 00:11:13.600 fat32 file system fat32 is desirable for 00:11:10.560 --> 00:11:14.880 its simplicity its high throughput and 00:11:13.600 --> 00:11:20.000 of course it's cross-platform compatibility 00:11:17.519 --> 00:11:24.720 but it's the furthest possible thing from red's own 00:11:22.079 --> 00:11:28.560 and red's own way of doing things has other archaic workarounds too instead of 00:11:26.800 --> 00:11:33.519 allowing an individual clip to be deleted from the mag after a bad take 00:11:30.480 --> 00:11:36.000 for example red requires that the entire 00:11:33.519 --> 00:11:40.000 mag be formatted before use now their claim is that this is to 00:11:38.079 --> 00:11:45.519 protect the user from accidental deletions but as far as i can tell it's 00:11:42.640 --> 00:11:49.440 just to compensate for their basic ass ssds 00:11:47.120 --> 00:11:54.240 here's the thing a full format with security race reduces the write speed 00:11:52.079 --> 00:11:57.760 penalty that comes with overwriting previously used flash cells 00:11:56.399 --> 00:12:02.560 so it's pretty much a cost saving measure which is kind of sad when you 00:11:59.839 --> 00:12:06.959 consider how widely available better ssds that would not require this 00:12:04.720 --> 00:12:12.160 limitation are these days so yeah repackaging commodity products and 00:12:09.040 --> 00:12:14.320 marking them up 10 times upsets me but 00:12:12.160 --> 00:12:18.079 ultimately as a customer nobody is forcing me to buy this 00:12:16.720 --> 00:12:23.440 it's not like i don't know the price ahead of time so i don't have a ton of 00:12:21.120 --> 00:12:29.279 ground to stand on no the thing that has always really pissed me off is their 00:12:26.079 --> 00:12:32.720 nonsense about how much they managed to 00:12:29.279 --> 00:12:35.760 spend on r d without coming to the same 00:12:32.720 --> 00:12:38.480 basic conclusion that the entire storage 00:12:35.760 --> 00:12:42.240 industry came to decades ago nothing 00:12:39.600 --> 00:12:47.760 is perfect not your consumer thing not your server grade thing nothing is 00:12:44.480 --> 00:12:50.800 perfect and for anything to be truly 00:12:47.760 --> 00:12:52.639 professional grade it must have 00:12:50.800 --> 00:12:57.120 redundancy now red admits outright that they spend 00:12:55.200 --> 00:13:02.000 a lot of time performing data recovery services on their customers media so to 00:13:00.320 --> 00:13:06.800 me then that would indicate that they are well aware that their media does in 00:13:04.639 --> 00:13:10.560 fact fail i do applaud their efforts to help their customers recover their data 00:13:08.880 --> 00:13:17.279 not everybody does this but the issue for me is that data 00:13:13.200 --> 00:13:19.839 recovery is an ass backward solution and 00:13:17.279 --> 00:13:24.880 when i read a statement like that from a company's ceo i can't help but think 00:13:22.639 --> 00:13:30.079 that red has weighed the cost of data recovery against the cost of actually 00:13:28.639 --> 00:13:34.880 engineering a more robust solution 00:13:32.320 --> 00:13:38.240 and decided you know what it's just not worth it to create something better 00:13:36.560 --> 00:13:44.320 they've determined that putting your footage at risk is worth it compared to 00:13:41.680 --> 00:13:48.399 the cost of engineering a raid 1 mag solution that would only increase their 00:13:46.320 --> 00:13:53.680 cost per meg by about double which we can see that they could easily 00:13:50.240 --> 00:13:56.399 absorb while almost never requiring data 00:13:53.680 --> 00:14:01.519 recovery which guys even if you do get the footage back causes stress and lost 00:13:59.440 --> 00:14:07.040 productivity that their customers will never get back anyway 00:14:04.560 --> 00:14:12.639 nothing here was a revelation to me and i find both genie tech's motivation here 00:14:10.240 --> 00:14:17.600 and the way that this has suddenly blown up highly questionable 00:14:15.040 --> 00:14:21.680 but red has never put me in a position to feel bad for them so from my 00:14:19.519 --> 00:14:26.240 perspective guys you are reaping what you've sown 00:14:22.880 --> 00:14:28.959 these are the dangers of magic black box 00:14:26.240 --> 00:14:34.320 marketing once the illusion fails people feel justifiably betrayed and pissed off 00:14:32.560 --> 00:14:38.639 so i would recommend being honest in the first place next time usually the 00:14:36.720 --> 00:14:43.279 engineering is cooler than the magic story anyway and if it's not 00:14:41.199 --> 00:14:48.800 engineer it better next time like with real-time redundancy for my footage 00:14:46.079 --> 00:14:52.880 thanks and thanks to our sponsor if you use wi-fi a lot on your smartphone then 00:14:50.560 --> 00:14:57.199 why pay for a fixed data monthly plan stop paying for what you don't use with 00:14:55.040 --> 00:15:01.920 ting with ting you can use their savings calculator at Linus.ting.com we're going 00:14:59.519 --> 00:15:05.519 to have that linked below to see exactly how much you can save ting has 00:15:03.760 --> 00:15:09.760 nationwide lte coverage using both t-mobile and sprint networks and they'll 00:15:07.519 --> 00:15:13.920 never block throttle or 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