Arguably, there can be no perfect Linux
PC. But what we can build is the perfect Linux PC for the creator of Linux, who
>> there can be only one.
[screaming] [groaning]
>> Or hear me out, you guys could just build a PC together.
>> Oh. >> Oh, okay. That could work. >> That could work. For the folks too young
to catch the Highlander reference, the joke is that we are both Lionus and this
can only end with one of us losing our heads. My mind is blown. So maybe that
counts. Guys, when I shot my shot asking the original tech Lionus to come and do
a collab with us, I had no idea what he'd say. I mean, he's kind of a big
deal, known for minor contributions to modern technology like Git and the Linux
kernel, but he's here, the granddaddy of
the operating systems that power everything from the Android phone in
your hand to data centers around the world to more recently your new gaming
PC. All thanks to the incredible work of open source developers and corporate
sponsors like Valve. And I get to build a computer WITH THEM AND ASK HIM SOME OF
YOUR QUESTIONS. And you think I'm the awkward one.
>> Sorry. Look, I know that fangirling does
make you a little bit uncomfortable. >> Yes. >> But you are here right now in my studio
and this is so cool. So, I'll tell you what. If you could just quickly sign my
copy of this and then I'll settle down. I promise. Okay.
How cool is this, you guys?
He made it out to fake Lionus
from the real one. This is officially more valuable to me than this message
from our sponsor. [laughter]
>> What a segway is the one. It's got the
abs you need from those other guys.
>> You haven't written anything more recent autobiographically, so I went with this
and the Wikipedia page. So that's about >> Yeah. No, that's fine. I mean, this was
literally what we talked about earlier that I'll do anything once, like,
>> right, >> come here. [laughter] Uh, >> I really enjoyed it.
>> Okay. No, I enjoyed the writing part. I do want to point out the David Diamond
part. I I actually wanted him to have the same font size as my name, but
>> Oh, really? >> the publisher said no. >> They were right. >> It was very much a collab.
>> He made that very clear in the parts that the italicized parts that are kind
of his version of the telling of the story. But I really enjoyed this and uh
I'm looking forward to hopefully asking you questions that are not thoroughly
covered by your own autobiographical works but >> from 25 years ago.
>> I was going to ask you that is one of my questions is do you feel as detached
from what you wrote then as I might be from something that I wrote when I was
19? >> I actually don't remember what I wrote.
>> Oh, okay. So then you might have forgotten the meaning of life for instance. Oh yeah, because that's in
there. >> That's in there. >> Yeah. It's entertainment by the way >> and uh and and sex is a perfect example.
>> It started for survival >> and then it became for uh society
>> and then also entertainment. >> Say yeah the entertainment part. >> No, you were quite explicit in both
meanings. >> Okay. >> Anything once. Anything once, right?
>> We're not done yet. So you still have to do more.
[laughter] >> When you say lionus, just to clarify,
say a false Linus or something. >> Fake liners. Yeah. Yeah,
>> today I can live with that. Now, you did an interview with ZDNet a number of
years back >> about your daily driver computer which
you built yourself and we actually replicated that build. What did you
think of our video? >> Oh, the one I never saw. >> Yeah.
>> Uh yeah, sorry. >> I knew that was going to happen. And so the next thing I was going to ask you is
what about this video? Are you going to watch this video? I probably won't
because I will be feeling way too self-conscious to to actually watch it,
but I might have to just because I will probably get emailed comments and then I
will have to wonder about the comments. And
>> I love that comments to you are email. >> It's the only media I use. Yeah. I don't
do I don't do the whole social media thing. So, it's text for my family or
email for everybody else. >> Right. So, I can text you. You actually
can text me now. Yeah, >> that's actually pretty cool. So, you
know what? Even though I am not one of the couple of dozen Torvoldses on the
planet, right? >> I also have a madeup last name.
>> So, my mom broke from her family,
changed her name, >> and then got my dad to agree to use her
name for me. >> Okay. Okay. So, I'm also Lionus with
also a last name with no genealogy whatsoever attached to it, which I
thought was a weird thing for us to have in common. >> Strange. Yeah. I mean, there's there's
literally maybe 20 Torbtes in the whole world because yeah, my grandfather made
that name up for very similar reasons. >> This is so much fun. You are actually
doing amazing. It's nothing like that
night that you barely slept before your first major speaking engagement,
>> right? You really did read the book. >> Of course. >> Good on you.
>> What? You think I would fake it? >> I don't know.
>> Shame. >> Shame. >> Shame on people who collaborate with
people and don't actually read their book ahead of time. >> Well, I didn't watch your videos, so
>> that's fine. [laughter]
I am the beta linest today, so I fully accept that that's going to be what
happens. Um, what else is going to happen is we are actually going to build
a computer at some point here. And if you watched our last video, it's fine
you didn't, but if you have your computer, then this may be familiar to
you. We are starting with an AMD Threadripper. This time, a 9960X.
This is a 24 core 48thread CPU that I imagine is going to absolutely rip it up
for writing emails. >> It's not the only thing I do, but I do spend a lot of time actually reading
emails more than writing them because
>> you can fit so much email in this bad boy. But of course you do have some high
performance demanding needs like say for example
>> yeah I do compile the kernel a lot. So uh it's part of my test requirements
that when I merge other people's code because I don't code myself very much
anymore. One of the things I do between every single merge is compile the whole
kernel with every module I can. And that's where you want something fairly
powerful. And I mean, I'm sure, you know, NVIDIA is probably working on a
way to make code compilation GPU accelerated, but is CPU still the way to
go? >> Yeah. And I can use as many cores as they can give me.
>> Why did we cheap out on him? >> Oh, because I also I actually I mean,
people ask me what [music] I want and I was like, I don't want the crazy
high-end because I want it to be quiet and reliable and not like
insane in any particular direction. So, >> you know what? We actually take a very
similar approach with our editing workstations. The, you know, the writers
or whatever, they can play around with the latest generation stuff. They're
always >> one step down because I just want it to
work. [laughter] I think I've never I've always wanted to have something that
just is reliable. And that's to me, I
mean, that comes first. It needs to be something I can trust and work with. And
then within that envelope, it needs to perform well and not be crazy bleeding
edge. >> And he's letting me build it. >> Yeah, that may be. Let's see. I'm having
way too much fun today. This is like the best day I've had in the office in
like a very long time. Seriously. Okay, I'm sorry. I said I would stop. I'm I'm
Okay, I'm done. I'm done. Choosing a motherboard for Linux is pretty
straightforward. You want all of the usual things you want out of a motherboard. nice robust cooling, good
power delivery, all the IO that you want, but of course you want to make
sure that all of the onboard components are supported by Linux. One of the big
things that we looked for in a platform for you was support for ECC memory as
well. >> Y >> can you talk a little bit about why that's so important? I don't understand
why people don't require ECC in their machines because being able to trust
your machine is like the number one thing and without ECC your memory will
go bad. It's not a question of when it's or it is a question of when. I mean it
just might take a few years. So when I built the machine, you apparently shot a
video around. I could not get ECC and I said whatever I'll I'll get reasonable
RAM and uh it worked fine. It worked fine for a couple of years and then two
years goes by and uh I start seeing
oopses. I start seeing segmentation
violations. I'm obviously doing this on a modern Linux kernel that is being
developed right now. And my first reaction is, "Oh no, we have a bug." And
I spent days on trying to figure out what the bug was
until I just realized, no, it wasn't a bug at all. It was my machine was not
reliable. >> So for you, this is not a question of,
you know, I have to reboot my system because my game crashed.
>> Correct. >> This is a question of I am working on
software that millions of people around the world rely on. I need to know,
>> right? I I absolutely need to trust my machine. And and
I mean, it's a big thing. And I'm
convinced that all the jokes about how unstable Windows is and blue screening,
I guess it's not a blue screen anymore. A big percentage of those were not
actually software bugs. A big percentage of those are hardware being not
reliable. And uh I mean in the gaming
community you also do overclocking so you get extra unreliability from that.
You will find articles that talk about how DDR has ECC built in. But no no it
doesn't. >> It really does not. Some of them have ECC on the chips themselves but then if
something goes wrong between the DIM and the CPU you will never know. So you need
to have endtoend ECC. I actually think that's one of the more egregious
marketing claims of our current era here.
>> I I I find that so irritating. It's a thing with me. I I do not touch machines
that don't have ECC. >> Well, this one does. Thanks, Kingston,
for sending this over. I know you hate voicemail. >> Yeah,
>> that's another thing that we can bond over. >> I hate
>> Well, I don't hate voicemail as much as I hate Zoom calls and things like that.
I I would not have gone through CO if I had to like Zoom call every day like
some people I know because I would have I mean there's no way.
>> Maybe don't include that part. But [laughter] >> see, I must have done this, but I don't
remember. >> Oh, wait. Why am I building your computer? You know how to build
computers. >> I don't build computers anymore. Literally, it's 5 years since I built my
last one. If you want me to build something, I actually This is what I
built. >> I brought it for you. We're getting show and tell.
>> We're getting show and tell. This I built. >> Hold on. Okay, let me try and figure it
out. Let me try and figure it out. Hold on. Okay, it has a button. It [music]
has a dial. It has power. >> Oh, it's a guitar effects pedal. It's a
bad one, don't get me wrong. It's a horribly, horribly bad one. You'd never
use this in real life, right? >> But I enjoy designing these things. And
I actually solder these small pieces myself. I built this at home.
Oh, these do help you see better. But do these make me look smarter?
>> I can't tell them apart. >> Do I look like the smart Linus now? >> No. [laughter]
>> Now, tell me this. [music] Is there footage of you using this and showing
what it sounds like? >> Oh, hell no. That's never going to happen. Uh I I don't actually play
guitar. >> Oh, there you have it. Soon to be
available uh from uh Lennis Torvald's
guitar. This is >> accessories.com. This is like the LT
store except bad quality. >> Oh, did we get him some stuff? Does he
have a care package? By the way, there's no pressure to take any of the stuff
from the store. If you don't like it, you just say you don't like it and we'll work hard. We'll make something better
for you later. Um, and this is not an endorsement in any way. It's just a
gift. He doesn't have to say anything nice. In fact, you don't even have to look at it right now.
>> No, it looks like a perfectly chrome bag.
>> Now, that is a reference. >> That's an endorsement. That is a
reference that I personally appreciate very much. The next thing we're going to
need is some storage. Last time around, you went with a giant 4 TBTE storage
drive and ended up using like few
hundred megs out of it. Yeah. >> So, I wanted to ask, okay, why is that?
Do you have like a a NAS that you use for archival storage or what's your
what's your data storage approach? >> Right. No, my data storage approach is I
upload it on the internet and if it's worth saving, somebody else will save it
for me. >> Clearly, you specifically requested that
we have a reference to either Highlander or Mad Max in the intro. So, you must
enjoy films, but you don't back up anything yourself.
>> No. No. And I mean, everybody does video
streaming these days. I mean, >> of course,
>> nobody does. >> Nobody downloads Linux ISOs. I mean I
mean Linux I mean >> even a Linux ISO is whatever a few
hundred megs. >> Um >> how many of those do you have on your
computer right now? >> Well, let me depending on the way you
mean it. [laughter] So Linux ISOs is a slang for pirated
media. >> Oh, see I am so naive in some ways. I
tried to get him to do the excuse me, I'd like to interject for a moment, but
he didn't he didn't get the reference or didn't think it was funny or something.
I tried you guys. [laughter] >> If you've enjoyed what you've seen so
far, we have a ton of exclusives over on Flowplane, including some behind the
scenes and even some staff hanging out with Linus to ask him some questions. Go
check it out at LMG.gg/flowplane. I mean, I'd like to interject for a
moment, though. Our community submitted some questions and you were just talking
both about Linux and Git and they want to know out of your two most famous
brainchildren which one are you most proud of? Oh, Linux by far. I don't
think people understand how little I did for Git. I did just the basic initial
design and hey, I'm proud of that. I I think uh git does
things really well and the design is
good and so much better than anything that came before it
>> only a little bit proud of There's there is pride there don't get me wrong but at
the same time I worked on git for 6 months and the moment I found somebody
who I felt could take it over I threw it
over the fence and said you go right and
Juno has done a admirable job and he's
been working on it for 20 years I didn't
work on it for 20 years to me it was something I needed for Linux and [music]
Linux is is my child >> so that's like having a second child so
that you could enhance your first child.
>> I worry about your children >> with spare parts maybe. [laughter]
>> Then why did you have three Lionus?
>> Literally I I started get I did never I never wanted to do source control
management. I felt it was almost as boring as databases. I never want to do
databases. I mean in the same way I don't think you ever really wanted to
make an operating system though did you? >> No. Operating systems are really
interesting. I all my computing life I've done things close to hardware.
[music] I'm not a hardware person per se but I love exploring the interface
between software and hardware. And I mean when I started that's the only way
you could do things. I mean you you got a home PC in in ' 81 or whatever it was
my first one. And there were no
abstraction layers. If you wrote anything, you wrote it to the hardware.
You made it make sounds. You made it print stuff to the screen.
>> There is a line in here where you say that if someone else had done it right,
you wouldn't have felt the need to create Linux. Do you still feel that way?
>> Yes. Yes. I I mean, I'm perfectly happy
being lazy, and if somebody else does some [music] something better than than
I, why would I try to recreate that? I I
needed an operating system and that's why I started doing it. But if if it
hadn't been an operating system, it would probably have been something else close to hardware.
>> Right. Speaking of hardware, maybe we should build a computer here for a
second. Um Oh, our cooler. You've talked
about this very briefly already, but to you and this is another Linux thing in
common. I love using computers. I hate hearing
them. Oh, yeah. So, we got you an NHU12S
TR5- SP6. >> What a catchy name.
>> I know. They really have nailed down the
engineering way of naming things. These guys are pure engineering all day, every
day. >> This may be very similar to what I have
on my Yep, that looks kind of similar. I
mean I mean it's a heat sink. They all look the same. >> It's a perfectly chromulent wheel. We
didn't feel the need to uh reinvent it. While I'm installing this, you have said
no, never with regards to water cooling.
>> I mean, I that sounds stronger than I would have gone. [music] I'm not
interested in water cooling mainly because I feel it has the potential to
be both less reliable than regular air
cooling [music] and uh people have
issues with it gurgling which I find to
be a more annoying sound than like a
nice big fan that just has a background
whooshing sound. >> That is very fair. How about the next
time we do this? >> Yep. I mean, you can you can prove me
wrong. >> I I'll I'll try you out. >> I'll try you out. Because what's nice
about water cooling is because you can get so much more surface area, you can
run the fans barely spinning at all and
some of the pumps are really nice and
there's accessories that you can get to hook them up in tandem. So, you get
redundancy. It's like ECC, >> but you don't get the redundancy for
things growing in your cooling fluids and stuff like that.
>> He does watch our videos. >> I've I've seen people with green stuff
in there or leaking on your entire server rack. >> That's bad, too.
>> Listen, his whole server rack just covered.
>> Oh, okay. Yeah. All right. >> I'm still trying to convince you.
>> Yeah, we're trying to get him back. >> Yeah. Way to go, Elijah. Yeah, I assume
this is a special see-through LTT tech
screwdriver. >> You better believe it. What do you think? >> I just like seeing inside technology and
stuff. >> Oh, nice strategy. Oh,
>> our community wanted to know what you do to relax.
>> I read less than I used to, but that's still what I do these days. I mean, this
is part of it. I just design pointless stuff. There's no pressure there. I
actually don't think I have a very stressful life. >> How much of that do you think is
attitude though? Because you do bring up that as the user base grew, you did feel
more pressure, >> right? I mean, part of it is we have I
wouldn't say perfected, but almost perfected the workflow. Uh we've used
the same workflow for the kernel now for 20 years. And it's not just git, it's
the whole release schedule. It's everything around it. And that means
that you when you know what's going on and you kind of it's it's a predictable
workflow. It's it's no [snorts] big
surprises. That's not stressful. And
technical problems are not stressful either because technology you can fix,
right? And we're good at that. The main source of stress for me tends to be uh
people. People you I mean I'm not a
people person famously, right? >> NVIDIA you
And uh people [music] are strange and and you can't fix people.
>> I think we're ready for the case. In which case,
>> wow, >> that was that was terrible. Don't even
give me a reaction for that. I deserve nothing. Uh Elijah, I want to hit us
with one of our other community questions. >> If you could start Linux development all
over again, what would you do differently? >> So, there's two answers to that. One is
now that I know how hard it is, I would never have gotten started in the first
place, right? You you need to have a certain amount of naive [music] to do
something this big. The flip side of that answer is I would not do a thing
differently because it worked so well and it's been such an enjoyable
experience. I've been very lucky in my life. I was at a startup for seven years
and I never felt that I was the smartest person in the room and I never want to
feel that. Right. >> Right. >> You want to be surrounded by people more
competent than you were. Right. Because otherwise what's the point?
>> What brought you here? >> Well, sometimes it makes you feel good
to be the smartest person in the room. [laughter]
>> Uh that's a burn on you, too. I'm still
hysterical. [laughter] >> The license choice. I still stand by
100%. I love the GPL version two. I think it's it was the right license and
it still is the right license. Now, this isn't one of our planned questions,
[music] but have you ever thought about how much people have profited from
Linux? Do you have any idea?
No, but I I have said
that I feel very good about the fact that I now have two different projects
that I started that both created
billion-dollar companies. >> I think billion is an understatement.
>> Yes. But I mean, clearly they people
built billion-dollar companies on top of both of my big projects.
>> And and some people ask me, "Doesn't
that make you feel bad?" And I'm like, "No, you're not getting it. That makes
me feel really good because that means that what I did was worthwhile and
meaningful, right?" Does it weird you out a little bit that the largest entity
known for for for Git at this point more
broadly in terms of the user base is owned by Microsoft? It's strange in a
historical context, right? >> But it's it's kind of funny at the same
time, >> right? And and what I find even funnier
is that so it turns out these days I think Microsoft makes more money of
their cloud >> than they do of like Windows which is
like what I grew up with them being known >> Windows behemoth
>> and and it turns out >> the majority of the Microsoft cloud runs
Linux. So, so we're we're friends,
right? The rivalry took some more time, but that went away,
too. And I'm very happy with that. >> I mean, I think that depends who you
ask. Um, now that Linux is coming in a
big way for gaming, there are certainly
people at Microsoft, particularly in the Xbox division, who are feeling pretty
combative and defensive about that. I can tell you that much. Yeah, I'm
obviously not a gamer, so I I don't see that part. But
>> you did make some games. >> Oh, very bad ones. Yes. No. But I mean,
if you're a teenager and you're into computers, you will make a game. I mean,
that's that's what you do. >> What? Didn't you make one, Lion? >> No. [snorts]
>> Are you sure? >> Yes. >> Okay.
>> Well, if you're competent and a teenager and into computers, you make a game. Uh,
>> there are different kinds of competency. [laughter] I met a girl when I was a teenager.
>> That fair enough. >> Now, you were pretty surprised to see
that we had like a product lineup and that is a larger part of our our
business these days. But I just I pulled this out to open up a box and I thought
you might like it. This is actually made by another creator team, Evan and
Caitlyn. Slide up. There you go. And then slide it back. >> Oh yeah.
>> Isn't that cute? >> I actually know who you were talking about because I may not watch yours.
>> What the heck? like every other YouTuber you mentioned. I know them, but
>> how is that even possible? We share a name.
>> Uh I now I've seen your videos, too. But you're talking about the guys or the
couple who does like they do that pumpkin thing every year. That's where I
know them from. >> Yeah. >> So, this is their product. >> You could stab somebody with this and
you'd have fun doing it. >> Would you prefer that or the samurai sword? >> It's been [laughter]
It would take longer. Yeah. what that >> it's a very cool thing for me to see
others in the in the creator space kind of parlaying what they learn sort of
doing things with uh I I see and I know
it's owned by Google but I see YouTube as almost like a like an opening up of
knowledge in the same way that open source is that just was not available
before and it's just it's very cool to me to see people
>> taking the knowledge they gain from this giant repository and just creating
things. It's uh Yeah. So, I wanted to shout them out cuz I haven't actually
talked about this yet. I bought one. They offered to give me one. I said, "You know what? That's so cool. I can't
take it from you. Um I'll buy one." I guess this goes in here now. Elijah, do
you want to hit us with another community question? >> Was there ever a moment that you got so
close to just walking away and being done with developing Linux?
>> No. No. I mean, there's been many, many, many moments where like I walk away and
I just say that, hey, I I'm fed up. It
might be some technical problem that I just been hitting my head against the
wall or it might be like just somebody
who annoys me and I'll walk away and I'll take a long warm bath and read a
book because I'm like, I need to [music] relax. I need to just walk away from
this. But it's always with the knowledge that hey, tomorrow morning I'll be there
fresh as roses. >> Okay, we're going to go a little deeper
now. I do think that when you do things that are consequential,
the other things can start to feel inconsequential and therefore boring.
[music] Do you feel that if you reach the stage where
you're not you don't feel needed with Linux that it'll be very difficult?
>> I hope not. I mean, I definitely don't want to be
the guy who halts on to something. And I've always said that if somebody better
comes along, I'll step aside. And I I
really hope that's true. Uh, okay. Well, I wired up your bottom fans, and maybe
now is a good time for us to talk about your case. SO, THIS THE FRACTAL Torrent
was chosen because it has two gigantor
fans in the front. Scandinavian design. That's sort of what they're
>> I'm hoping I see there's a mesh there. So there's a mesh dust will not go in.
>> Oh, this is not on our scheduled questions, but cats or dogs?
>> Both. I don't count cats and dogs even as pets. They they become family
members. >> Um dogs maybe even more so than cats,
even though I started out with cats. >> But then you have pets like
>> rats and gerbles and fish. Oh, fish aren't even pets. Fish. Fish are pests.
I don't understand people who do aquariums. >> But we're not judging.
>> No, I mean, >> no, it's not you. It's not a Linus thing
to be judgmental. >> Yeah. Okay.
>> Sorry. [laughter] >> No, we've had everything. Uh, rats were great.
>> I've heard they're awesome. >> They are. I mean, we
>> the the biggest problem with the rats was that they only live for three years,
and that broke my daughter's heart, and she said, "Never again." because they
don't live long enough, too. >> And and they they like they bond and
they're so social. >> They are very social. They're they're fun. They're they're nice creatures.
>> Did you know that Alberta, Canada, is the only place on Earth other than I
believe the Antarctic continent where there are no rats? I
>> think Canadians might be overly proud of this because maybe it's because even
rats don't want to live. >> That's crazy. >> Sorry. [laughter]
Yeah, you need to cut that out. But >> Oh, no. That's hilarious. I love it. I
love it. >> See, what I was what I was teeing myself up for was they were erraticated, but
[music] his was better.
>> Okay, I think our next order of business is power.
We went very overkill.
>> Okay, I see that. 1600 watts. >> That is the Prime TX1600.
Basically, >> it's a big box and it's gonna fit there.
>> Oh, yeah. >> Okay. >> Oh, yeah. That'll be fine. And what we
liked about this was you like reliability. >> Y
>> 12-year warranty. And we both like
silence and because it's so efficient and rated for so much power, that fan is
unlikely to ever even spin. [music] Very good. You know, power supplies matter.
They're They may not be the sexiest part of a computer, but they do matter.
>> That's what I tell my wife about my power supply.
>> Wow. [gasps] I'm going to switch spots with you. I'm
going to Whoa. Which one's which now? Okay. Okay. I couldn't get him to do the
I'd like to interject, but can you just stand there for a second and then just point at me?
>> Oh, you're going to dub over this. >> No, no, no, no, no, no. This is for the
Spider-Man meme. >> I don't do social media, so I don't do the memes.
>> The Spider-Man's point at each other, and they're both Spider-Man. Don't worry about it.
>> It'll it'll be great. >> Okay. >> Yeah. [laughter]
>> I'm trying to actually build it. Elijah, save me. Hit me with a couple of rapid
fire questions. Is it pronounced GIF or GIF?
>> Oh, it's GIF. No. >> YES. YES.
>> NO, I'm kidding. It's GIF.
[music] >> I actually got this question. Not this question, but somebody sent me an email
asking me if [music] Git is with a hard G or a soft G like GIF.
>> And I was like, [music] don't don't even make that joke.
>> Okay. Hit us with another one. Elijah, >> you were talking about it earlier, walking away from Linux briefly. Well,
what happens to Linux if you just die? >> Wow,
>> what a weird way to ask that. >> That's what the community wanted to
know. >> The traditional question is actually if you get hit by a bus.
>> Oh, >> the implication is that I die. But >> okay, can we redo the take then?
[laughter] >> No, no, you're stuck with it now. Uh,
you asked Lennis Torbald's that question. I
>> You have to live with that. >> No, the community. >> Unless you just die.
>> Well, wait. [laughter] You know what? We have such a healthy
development community, it's it's ridiculous. Most other open- source
projects have like a couple of people involved. If it's a healthy community,
they might have tens. We have a thousand people involved in every single release.
And we do releases every nine months, every nine weeks. If I fall down and die
or my plane crashes on the way back home
from >> Oh, I don't want to be responsible for that.
[music]
>> That would kill my reputation completely. >> Well, but then you can do the intro with
the swords and and make it really impressive, right? >> Oh, lordy.
>> There it can be only one. and I killed
the other one. On the internet, nobody has good taste, so it it would become a
meme, I'm sure. >> Is this you approving that we can do that then?
>> Oh, yeah. Absolutely. If I'm dead, I won't care. >> Okay, speaking of you're dead and won't
be able to, I guess, consent to it. >> What necrophilia? No. >> No, no, that's not where I WAS GOING.
>> JESUS. >> THAT'S NOT [laughter] WHERE I was going. I was going to go into the topic about
AI and generative AI. Is it a bubble or
is it a computing revolution? I mean it's clear it's clearly both right it's
clearly a bubble and at the same time it's very interesting and I think it
will change society and I think it will change how most skilled jobs get done at
the same time I don't think it's as revolutionary as people make it out to
be I want to specifically talk about AI
with respect to coding and particularly vibe coding what are your thoughts on an
AI model being trained on on the work of
real people like in in the artistic community rightfully angry that the AI
never would have been able to do anything without the large scale theft
of work. So what is your take on on
that? [music] I'm like that's reality. Deal with it. That genie is out of the
bottle. You're not you're not getting it back. And you're not getting it back
whether you are a photographer who's out of work. Those things are gone, right?
because you can fake pictures so much better now or you're a programmer that
has to learn to deal with a new reality.
I think actually on the programming side, we're in a fairly good spot. I
really think that AI will be a tool and
it will make people more productive. I think that vibe coding is great for
getting into [music] programming. I think it's going to be a horrible thing
to maintain. Right. >> Oh yeah. >> Right. So I don't think programmers go
away. You still want to have the people who know how to maintain the end result.
I'm a huge believer in AI. I'm not a huge believer in the the whole things
going on around AI. I I find the market
marketing and the market to be sick and
twisted [music] and and there is going to be a crash and
it's not it's going to be ugly. >> Not financial advice.
>> No, no, no. No financial advice. >> Speaking of companies that are growing
exponentially, uh we opted not for one of their GPUs.
>> Wow, what a segue again.
>> This to be fair, I have to say I famously uh was not a huge fan of
NVIDIA. >> You Mhm. Yes, that >> but was a thing. [clears throat]
>> The AI thing has actually made things so
much better because it turns out NVIDIA cares about
>> well where the money comes. Turns out, >> it turns [laughter] out that is always
the case. >> That was a big surprise for us. >> But what you uh didn't choose was the
classic Linux-, which is a Radeon card.
You specifically requested an Intel Arc,
which is going to raise at least a few eyebrows into a shape like a Ark.
[snorts] >> Thanks, Elijah. You know what? Let's
keep you. Let's put you on the boat with uh two of everything.
>> OH, THE ARK. YEAH, [screaming] LET'S GO.
>> WOW. It never ends. >> According to Wikipedia back in 2006,
little outdated, it was estimated that your code was about 2% of the Linux
kernel. >> Oh, yeah. >> If you had to guess now, or if you know,
what percentage would you say it is today? >> The first version of Linux was like
10,000 lines. I'm sure I've written code since then, but
but there's been thousands of people involved. And what I do these days is I
don't write code. Sometimes I write code snippets and send them out as emails and
saying something like this in the hopes that somebody else will then write the
final tested code [music] and send it back to me. >> Hey, that's another thing Lionuses do is
send crappy incomplete emails for other people to do the work.
>> Yeah. No, that's that's my life. Lines of code is not something you should ever
attribute any importance to. >> Yeah. So like when we have 5 million
lines of code for uh hardware
descriptions, they're actually generated from the literal hardware
descriptions that AMD uses to do their
car. [music] >> What's more important is your Linus of codes and we have one of those.
>> The puns. The puns, they keep on coming. There was a recent thing [music] from a
major tech company where uh developers were asked to say how many lines of code
they wrote and if it wasn't enough they were terminated. And there was someone
here that was extremely upset about that approach to measuring productivity
because >> Oh yeah. Now you shouldn't even be upset at that point. That's just incompetence.
Anybody who thinks that's a valid metric is too stupid to work at a tech company.
You do know who you just said that about, right?
>> No. >> Oh. Uh, he was a prominent figure in the
um improved efficiency of the US government recently.
>> Oh, apparently I was spot on. [laughter]
>> Is this up to your standards? If I just kind of get these strapped down here,
then are we good? Is it Scandinavian enough?
>> I have somebody to blame. If somebody ever makes fun of my machine, I like I
had nothing to do with it. Oh, well that's a lot of pressure. >> It was Lionus's fault. [laughter]
>> Yeah. Nice. Damn, that didn't work.
>> You were traveling just before this trip. How often do you get to travel
[music] uh for your line of work or have to? >> Um, yeah. Whoever wrote that question
doesn't realize that it's not get to travel, it's it's a pain. one year
fairly early on I was counting the days
I was away from home and I was away more
than half the year and that's also the
year I decided never again and this was literally this must have been 30 years
ago this was when I was still living in Finland I don't enjoy traveling for work
uh these days at least I travel in business class so that if I do the long
overseas ones I lay flat and try to sleep through
flights. That makes it bearable, but it doesn't make it fun. I don't tend to
enjoy big cities. I mean, some of them are interesting. I still enjoy going to
Tokyo for some I don't know why Tokyo is one of those cities that even as a big
city is actually >> it's got so much character. Yes, it it
it does things differently. >> So, this question was supposed to
transition us into saying thank you so much for coming up here. I
>> to the big city of Vancouver. Well, no, but I was blown away when we arranged
for this and I was ready to move heaven and earth and bring everything to you
and you were just like, "Oh, yeah. Well, no. I mean, I guess I'll just come up to
you guys." That >> mean, but it makes so much more sense.
And honestly, I as I told Fake Lenus
here, um I I actually enjoy doing
something different. He compared this experience to a pre-academy awards uh
dinner gala thing as well as flying in a
fighter jet. >> Well, I didn't compare this to that.
>> You mentioned those things >> in the [laughter] same sentence.
>> Yes. >> No, it is one of the things I have
enjoyed uh as part of Linux has been that I've been able to do things that
most people don't get to do, right? And
most people don't get to come and have
>> fake leaners build a computer for them. >> That's right. >> So, this is actually fun. [laughter]
>> Sounds like Please don't sound like you have a gun to your head off camera.
>> No, no, no, no, no. I love [laughter] it. I love it. Honestly, that would be
the that would be if we weren't if we didn't still have a lot to do, that
would be like the best final line of the video. [laughter]
>> This was fun. >> Fun.
>> This is one people wanted. Lionus or Linus.
>> So if you speak Swedish to me, >> it's Linus.
>> Oh, okay. I don't even know what they do.
>> First, dude. >> Oh, no. I did it. Oh, [laughter] and he's going to leave.
>> That's okay. The video can be building 65% of a computer [laughter] with a
store. >> When I moved to the US and started speaking English, I I started saying
Lionus. Even coming over here and interacting with English-speaking
people, most of them don't know how to pronounce our name anyway. [music]
So if you have to correct them anyway. Oh, but I don't want to correct them.
Like I don't go by TWS because nobody can pronounce TWS.
>> Don't even try. [laughter] Right. But after I spoke such fluent Swedish
>> before coming into this, did you know anything or did you search anything
about my personal Linux hy jinks [music] that I've experienced?
>> Why are the two columns open source and installed? So, I consciously did not uh
search after. I mean, I've heard of you. Don't I mean, I made fun of the fact
that that I knew all the other YouTubers, but uh yes, I I knew of you
and I'd seen videos of you, but at the same time, I did not want to come in
here having researched the hardware or
researched you. >> I have accidentally deleted my entire
guey without realizing what I was doing. Hey,
>> that was something. >> I've done that. >> And I have to type yes, do as I say in
order to install it. And maybe it will
install and launch. Now, what is the point of having a Oh,
>> I managed to completely brick an
install. Um, [music] trying to do something as simple as install Steam.
>> What are you talking about? I've done nothing with this other than install
that hard info thing. >> How did this line up with your expectations for today? I didn't really
have a lot of expectations. I I'm not saying the expectations were low. I I'm
saying [laughter] they they were non-existent. It's like I didn't know
much expect, [music] >> right? You're a groundbreaking YouTuber.
That's what the message here is. You are you are changing the world.
>> That's a great sound bite. Let's just do the whole video with just that. See?
>> Yeah. >> Okay. So, >> 15 seconds. So, this is basically this
is basically on you now because if you give a reporter a sound bite like that,
obviously they're going to cut all the rest of the part where they say they had literally zero expectations of you.
>> Maybe that's that's why there's so little video of me because people
decided, "Yep, we're better off without this." >> Do you want to do the honors? Here we
go. >> Don't miss it. You missed it. There's a
fan rubbing. Elijah, >> you closed the side panel, sir.
>> I cursed it when I closed the side panel. I knew it. That's that gentle
whooshing sound you asked for. Right. >> That's [laughter] Yeah. No, it's like a
cat purring in your lap.
>> When we tested it, it was not making that sound. So, I am blaming you
building it. >> Wait, I see it. >> It is the fan. >> It fell out of It fell out of the uh
little cable management groove. [music] We got this. Everything is fine.
Everything is saved. 64 gigs of RAM all showing up. That's a good sign. That
means all of our pads are contacting the pins in the motherboard socket. are
>> okay. Try with the XMPP profile enabled.
Just try it. See you. >> Living on the wild side. Hit us with a
rapid fire question. >> This one on our Reddit got almost 100 up votes. What do you prefer, Xbox,
PlayStation, or Nintendo Switch? >> We don't have an Xbox. We do have a
PlayStation. I don't think it's been turned on in a year because it gets
turned on for Christmas when the kids come back to town and they play [music]
whatever. They play Little Bigplet and something else. We had a Nintendo. I
think we had a [music] We had the Wii U. The The odd one, right? The one that
Yeah, that'd be the Wii U. >> Yeah. And to be fair, I've played games,
too. I What's the Shoot the Dinosaurs
game? >> Horizon. Um Horizon Zero Dawn. >> Yeah, I actually like that a lot.
>> Here's something cool. Horizon Zero Dawn was the first game I played all the way
through on Linux. >> Oh, it works on Linux now. >> Sure does. >> Okay. Yeah, we're
>> Let's go. >> Nobody does the test the media. That
takes forever. >> These are the real tech tips. The real Linus tech tips right here. Let's go. Do
you want to install Fedora? >> Fedora is still your your distrib.
>> No, I mean I I can do the heavy lifting and press that button. Thank you.
>> Well, I I would I would I would hate to, [music] you know, uh step on your Linux.
>> This is presumably a newer version than whatever I installed last time.
>> Why Fedora? They being very
closely aligned to kernel developers. They made things easier like Abuntu
very much wanted to be like a consumer oriented thing and in the process when I
tried it many many years ago they literally made it hard for me to upgrade
the kernel because that was not their target audience. [music] So I said yeah
this is not for me clearly by design. And at the same time, there are the
really tech oriented ones where >> by the way.
>> By the [music] way, >> yeah, >> really, >> it's a it's a it's a thing.
>> It's a meme. >> Oh, >> they'll get it. They'll get it. >> They'll get it. I don't where you
compile your own everything. You compile your own dro. And again, that was not
geared for me because I don't care about anything else than the kernel. So, the
only thing I want to compile is my own kernel. So, I want a DRO that just
installs and just works and and the only
thing I will replace is actually the kernel. >> Follow-up question to that then that was
on the Reddit was, do you think that the advantage of having a million different
dros out there is also as disadvantage for Linux because there's so many
options out there, >> right? I mean, I I think the fragmentation has been a huge
disadvantage over the years. If you're a commercial
software developer, you don't have one
target, you have multiple targets. >> And it's clearly held
things back. At the same time, I mean, having the wild wild west kind of thing
has its own advantages. And I think the open source community has worked very
well in this environment. It it just hasn't worked for everybody. I think all
the major distros are very aware that
it's a problem and they are they would
want to have a more unified like distribution but at the same time they
all want that unified distribution to be their unified distribution. So
>> anytime the topic of I want to set up a Linux computer comes up what should I
pick and I don't think you could find two people that will ever give the same
answer >> immediate flame war >> immediately becomes an argument. So
>> I think it's part of the open source history too.
>> We've had flame wars over editors. Those
kind of died out. You have to have something that you believe passionately.
>> So now that you've said Fedora though, this is the only one that anyone's ever
allowed to install again. Right. >> Right. Right. Now I when I'm emperor and
king of the world, >> it will be Fedora. >> That will be Should we figure out this
install thing? >> We can try flashing another drive if you want. I do think that maybe that is make
updating. I I just can't tell if it's moving. >> So then what I'll let you do is
>> Yeah. Do you want to show us how it's done here? >> Please.
>> It's your operating system. >> By all means. >> This has never been more true than right
now in this moment. >> Well, let's [laughter] 43 live ISO sounds about right.
>> I I also don't know how to flash that image under Windows. So, you're you're
on your own there. I I did the hard lifting here by
>> are you okay >> pressing the download button? >> That's a lot of pressure. >> What's your number one tech tip that you
give people? >> I don't give people tech tips because
>> I mean I sit in my office reading email
and if somebody asks me over email for tech tips, I won't answer that. I mean
that's not the kind of questions. >> I think they're emailing the wrong guy.
>> Yeah, [laughter] you can forward it to me if you want. >> Yeah. Right.
>> Stall fedora. Boom. Oh, he crazy as a
fox. >> Wow. To be fair, the other Lionus did
touch it in between. So, I think that cured it.
>> Yeah. Yeah. >> Well, do you encrypt your drive? >> I I will encrypt, but not this time
around. >> Got it. Right. I should keep this drive cuz then I might have a Linux install
that isn't cursed. I can't believe it took me this long to work up the courage
to ask. I can't believe you responded in like 15 minutes or whatever it was.
>> Well, that's actually a rule for me. Really? I either respond almost
immediately or you won't get a response at all. I don't leave stuff in my
compost pile of a mailbox. >> That's something you guys don't have in
common. >> No, I I use my inbox as like a like a
neverending garbage to-do list. I actually like I like that a lot.
>> Okay, good. >> How do you do it? Location services on or off?
>> I'm okay. So my approach to privacy has been that I'm so public that the more I
can poison the that well the better off I am. Don't try to make [snorts] be
worried about something. Just give it
all [music] out and be so uninteresting
that nobody cares. >> What would be some of the first things that you would set up?
>> I have my own background which is not quite as cartoonish as this. It's just a
photo I took a nighttime photo. Is there any chance that we could get that
background to share with people? Oh, you don't have you don't have to. There's no
pressure or anything, but >> I probably hide it on my phone. I can
send it to somebody. >> And then if anyone wants to get the official Minis desktop wallpaper,
>> do you have Android phones so that you get full resolution photos?
>> You got to believe it. >> So that was one of the questions was
iPhone or Android. And is there like a because it's, you know, has Linux as its
backbone philosophical approach to choosing Now obviously part of it Yeah.
No. Uh part of it is also I got free phones for
a while for I mean people send me stuff.
>> That's something we have in common. >> Yeah. So and and Apple never sent me a
free phone for some strange reason. >> We have that in common too. [laughter]
Apple doesn't like me. >> Okay. >> We had one final question for you.
>> Has mainstream acceptance of Linux become more important to you or is it
enough that everyone's using it whether they know it or not? I actually don't
even care the whole enough that they you use it. I don't care. I care deeply
about users in the sense that a project
that doesn't have users is pointless.
Right. Right. >> So users do give any project and my
projects in particular then meaning in that sense. But at the same time if you
don't use Linux that's again your bad
choice. I don't it's it's it's that's not on me. As long as there are enough
users that that what I do is meaningful and not just some mental masturbation,
I'm fine. >> And you know what? I won't feel bad if you don't use
this product or service from our sponsor.
Wake them up.
This has got all the apps you need. >> No. No. [music] There will be no Songs
of Odo, the all-in-one business app subscription. Tell me,
where are the others?
We have ways of making you talk. >> Sing.
>> No. I Wait. No. How are you doing that?
>> Time for this song bird [music] to fly. >> Wait.
NO.
>> Who's got all your [music] business apps? Save money and time. Got to plug
the gaps. I'm talking about sales, inventory and scheduling and a million
other benefits that odo brings. So if you think about time you'll spend
dreaming of when subscription hell will end. [music] Realize that there's one
way through and all in one solution. Yes, it's true. Listen when I say that
all you got to do is oh do this was
amazing. This vastly exceeded my
expectations. This was so cool. Um,
thank you so much on behalf of me, my
team, the audience. I think you guys leave some love down in the comments
below. Please, >> I mean, this was odd for me. I I I've
enjoyed it. Let's hope I enjoy it after I read the comments, too. [laughter]
>> Yeah, be nice. >> Be nice, you guys. >> I I do have to say, I mean, one of the
things having done this for 35 plus
years, [music] you learn to have a thick skin. I probably had a thick skin to
begin with, but you get I get a lot of
hate, too. I mean, you said I'm universally loved. No.
>> Well, what I meant is throughout the universe, there are people that love
you. Yeah. [laughter] >> Not that all of them do. If you search the whole universe, you are bound to
find