WEBVTT 00:00:00.000 --> 00:00:05.720 So, Facebook renames itself meta in reference to the metaverse, makes that their whole identity, 00:00:05.720 --> 00:00:11.120 releases a couple VR headsets, and then Apple comes along with their own, much better headset, 00:00:11.120 --> 00:00:14.320 and doesn't say the word metaverse once in their presentation. And do I have that right? 00:00:14.320 --> 00:00:17.840 That is correct. How do you, how do you feel if you're Mark Zuckerberg at this point? 00:00:17.840 --> 00:00:24.040 Does he feel? If he feels anything, it's probably some feeling that kind of sounds like this. 00:00:24.040 --> 00:00:27.080 I was thinking more of leg up, leg up. 00:00:27.080 --> 00:00:35.600 Well shucks. Oh no. Yeah, apparently he gave a, they just had an all hands meeting at Facebook, where he 00:00:35.600 --> 00:00:41.280 said something like, okay guys, let's sell down here, Apple did the, you know, they released 00:00:41.280 --> 00:00:46.400 their own headset, but they have no quote unquote, magic solutions, magical solutions. 00:00:46.400 --> 00:00:50.200 Yeah, he specifically mentioned that they didn't, that they were following what was 00:00:50.200 --> 00:00:54.320 at the same laws of physics as they were, like they didn't have any magical solutions 00:00:54.320 --> 00:00:59.640 to the laws of physics that our teams haven't already explored and thought of. 00:00:59.640 --> 00:01:03.640 And he needed to say that because sometimes it really does seem like Apple is bending 00:01:03.640 --> 00:01:08.360 the laws of space and time to talk through their asses. 00:01:08.360 --> 00:01:12.600 Well, it seems more like they're, they're bending the laws of their customers' wallets. 00:01:12.600 --> 00:01:17.320 Bam. Got them. Guys, this is TalkLinked in case you were wondering. 00:01:17.320 --> 00:01:21.960 Normally we release a TechLinked episode where it's just like a roundup of the daily 00:01:21.960 --> 00:01:29.320 news, but we're busy. Something's happening at the company today, so we're going to talk about Apple's announcement 00:01:29.320 --> 00:01:34.480 of the Vision Pro headset in a bit more detail, especially in the context of these comments 00:01:34.480 --> 00:01:37.680 that Mark Zuckerberg just made. 00:01:37.680 --> 00:01:42.200 It's got to be crazy. I mean, so we have both tried VR to a certain extent. 00:01:42.200 --> 00:01:48.000 You've tried it way more than I have. I've kind of like followed along with the developments in VR, so I'm somewhat familiar. 00:01:48.000 --> 00:01:51.040 You've tried a PSVR. Yes. 00:01:51.040 --> 00:01:54.600 So you had all that experience here, the AR King on ShortCircuit. 00:01:54.600 --> 00:01:57.600 Meanwhile, I ... Oh, that's true. Yeah. 00:01:57.600 --> 00:02:05.880 I've tried those AR glasses. That's right. Meanwhile, what I did was I bought a PSVR for full price at the end of the life of the 00:02:05.880 --> 00:02:15.240 PlayStation 4. So both of us having these experiences is interesting because in the context of Apple releasing a 00:02:15.240 --> 00:02:19.720 product in this category, sort of, I mean, they call it a different category, spatial 00:02:19.760 --> 00:02:27.080 computing. But our experience here represents very much a niche, like most people, I would say, have 00:02:27.080 --> 00:02:35.960 not tried either AR or VR, augmented reality or virtual reality, terms that may become 00:02:35.960 --> 00:02:39.840 obsolete if Apple has their way. But now Apple is ... 00:02:39.840 --> 00:02:42.840 Is it spatial computing? What's that? Yeah. 00:02:42.840 --> 00:02:45.600 Well, you know, I can't wait until next year when they revolutionize the temporal computing, 00:02:46.080 --> 00:02:49.720 then we can finally compute all of the spacetime continuum together at once. 00:02:49.720 --> 00:02:57.000 Spatial computing, temporal computing. And at that point, I mean, we don't even need AI in case we will have the ability to control 00:02:57.000 --> 00:03:00.000 wormholes. Absolutely. Awesome. 00:03:00.000 --> 00:03:06.520 If anyone, Apple, will do it. Back to this launch, Apple is ... You know, they've done this with a few categories now 00:03:06.520 --> 00:03:12.880 where there is an existing product category. There is innovation being done in an industry. 00:03:12.880 --> 00:03:17.920 Cell phones are a thing. Yeah. Smartwatches, I think they were starting to become a thing. 00:03:17.920 --> 00:03:22.320 Pebble, I think, was out and it was like ... It's still everyone's favorite. 00:03:22.320 --> 00:03:25.320 Oh, Pebble came ... Yeah, for sure. Yeah. 00:03:25.320 --> 00:03:28.360 Yeah. So there were definitely smartwatches, but this is what Apple does, even when I think 00:03:28.360 --> 00:03:31.680 back, and I've been covering this stuff since 2013. 00:03:31.680 --> 00:03:37.200 So even when I think back, I have to think for a second before I remember that, oh, Apple 00:03:37.200 --> 00:03:40.520 actually wasn't the company that did define that category. 00:03:40.520 --> 00:03:46.280 I mean, with the iPhone, with the Apple Watch, with the iPad, but that's the thing. 00:03:46.280 --> 00:03:50.320 They didn't start the category. I think that's ... But they might have defined it. 00:03:50.320 --> 00:03:57.560 Yeah. I think part of it is they have this very smart linguistic trick that they do where they 00:03:57.560 --> 00:04:00.600 don't call the thing the thing. Yes. 00:04:00.600 --> 00:04:04.960 They give it a name, and then they wait for everybody else to call it that thing. 00:04:04.960 --> 00:04:08.320 So they're doing it right now. They have the Vision Pro. 00:04:08.320 --> 00:04:11.440 Never once did they mention VR, AR, none of that. 00:04:11.440 --> 00:04:15.200 They didn't say this is a VR headset. This is an AR headset. I don't even know if they said mixed reality. 00:04:15.200 --> 00:04:18.200 No. I don't think they did. No, nothing like that. 00:04:18.200 --> 00:04:23.480 But then everybody already starts because they see that product. 00:04:23.480 --> 00:04:27.520 They know the category. It's like, oh, that's a VR headset. Oh, that's an AR headset. 00:04:27.520 --> 00:04:34.080 And so then all of a sudden, you know that their named product, it not only is that, 00:04:34.080 --> 00:04:37.200 but it's the one you think of because you're the one that has to put that together. 00:04:37.200 --> 00:04:45.400 They never say it. Yeah. And I think that covering this, it has seemed awkward even to use those other terms. 00:04:45.400 --> 00:04:53.200 So like every time there's a headset or glasses or whatever that involves some sort of thing, 00:04:53.200 --> 00:04:57.560 like a screen near your face, mounted on your face, and it's displaying things, it's like, 00:04:57.560 --> 00:05:02.280 do I call this VR? Do I call it AR? Do I call it XR? 00:05:02.280 --> 00:05:05.680 Which I guess is a stand in for mixed reality. 00:05:05.680 --> 00:05:13.240 Do I call it? Yeah. I mean, apparently XR, according to the geniuses of Wikipedia, I think believe it means extended 00:05:13.240 --> 00:05:16.240 reality. Oh, yeah, right. Right. 00:05:16.240 --> 00:05:22.240 There's extended reality. There's the metaverse, which meta- Was a dystopian idea from a novel? 00:05:22.240 --> 00:05:25.680 Yeah. Yeah. We don't learn. 00:05:25.680 --> 00:05:31.440 But even I, who have been covering these things, struggle to which adjective do I use? 00:05:31.440 --> 00:05:39.960 Which category, definer thing do I use? And I have to give it to Apple in the sense that calling it spatial computing, that can 00:05:39.960 --> 00:05:47.240 catch on, I think. I would much rather refer to like, you know, the Unreal thing, the Unreal glasses that I've 00:05:47.240 --> 00:05:53.680 covered on ShortCircuit as a spatial computing product rather than like, they're not VR glasses. 00:05:53.680 --> 00:06:00.280 It's not a VR headset. They're sort of like AR, but some of them don't actually track with your head. 00:06:00.280 --> 00:06:04.080 I mean, you can track your head, but that's only in a, it's a whole thing. 00:06:04.080 --> 00:06:11.320 There's always caveats, right? So I think calling the whole category spatial computing, this is generally the type of thing 00:06:11.320 --> 00:06:16.720 where you have a display near your face and you are moving around and maybe interacting 00:06:16.720 --> 00:06:20.360 with it with either controllers or your hands or whatever. 00:06:20.360 --> 00:06:26.440 I have to give it to Apple. I want to call it that. I would rather call it something like virtual computing. 00:06:26.440 --> 00:06:29.800 Like that makes sense to me. Whatever you call it, the Vision Pro does it. 00:06:29.800 --> 00:06:33.640 Exactly. Kind of what Apple wants us to think. 00:06:33.640 --> 00:06:39.440 They're like, okay, this is the category defining product. So let's take a bit of a look at the actual product itself. 00:06:39.440 --> 00:06:44.720 In case you missed out on the, holy crap, it was such a long keynote. 00:06:44.720 --> 00:06:48.240 It was like two hours and 40 minutes or something. Yeah, it was crazy. 00:06:48.240 --> 00:06:52.200 It was crazy writing TechLink that day after watching it. Oh my gosh. 00:06:52.200 --> 00:06:58.280 Like, guys, window into the process of writing TechLinked, it's already kind of hectic enough 00:06:58.280 --> 00:07:03.640 to try and like make a video in one day about the like trending topics that are happening 00:07:03.640 --> 00:07:08.760 right then. You're trying to get all the accurate information as it's happening. 00:07:08.760 --> 00:07:13.440 And then instead of writing for two hours, you watch something for two hours so that 00:07:13.440 --> 00:07:18.440 you can then write about it for another two hours. 00:07:18.440 --> 00:07:21.440 It's got to be here. Like how long is it? Okay. 00:07:21.440 --> 00:07:24.440 It was only two hours. Yeah. It seemed way longer. 00:07:24.440 --> 00:07:29.800 Ugh. Well, that's just because Craig Federighi kept on jumping out and jumping back in and it 00:07:29.800 --> 00:07:35.120 was confusing. Hey, what the heck? This is supposed to be, last time I went to this, this was a 3D model. 00:07:35.120 --> 00:07:38.200 It was kind of cool. Now they got rid of it. 00:07:38.200 --> 00:07:41.960 Or maybe, whatever. That's too bad. 00:07:41.960 --> 00:07:45.200 I wanted to show you guys like the actual 3D structure in case you hadn't seen much of 00:07:45.200 --> 00:07:52.280 it. But as you can see here, the thing that was immediately impressive to me during the keynote 00:07:52.280 --> 00:07:56.240 was how slim it is. 00:07:56.240 --> 00:08:01.680 That's kind of been the whole struggle over the VR generations. 00:08:01.680 --> 00:08:06.680 I mean, the first like, you know, the Oculus, if any of you guys were around for like the 00:08:06.680 --> 00:08:09.760 DK1, that was a brick. 00:08:09.760 --> 00:08:16.960 It was just like you're sticking a brick on your face. It was like a virtual boy, but like only slightly smaller. 00:08:16.960 --> 00:08:26.960 Yeah, honestly. And it was like very square. It was, there was like crazy screen door effects, really small FOV. 00:08:26.960 --> 00:08:33.840 And still though, it was enchanting because I remember sitting at my desk at NCIX and 00:08:33.840 --> 00:08:40.640 like having that first roller coaster experience, but like where you're, you know, I'm stationary 00:08:40.640 --> 00:08:44.840 sitting at my desk and I'm looking around. It was still kind of mind blowing. 00:08:44.840 --> 00:08:50.560 So to arrive at this time in 2023 and see that we have been able to like get this down 00:08:50.560 --> 00:08:59.000 to this slim is pretty crazy. Although I will say I've seen some other people's impressions of it and listened to them. 00:08:59.000 --> 00:09:03.920 And apparently the headset is quite heavy. 00:09:03.920 --> 00:09:09.920 That makes sense. Which is probably not helped by the fact that it doesn't have an overhead strap. 00:09:09.920 --> 00:09:13.500 I wonder if they have like, if they're going to have an accessory like that. 00:09:13.500 --> 00:09:16.540 They only have this rear headband that goes around the back of your head. 00:09:16.540 --> 00:09:20.220 And then the thingy that like goes onto your face. Yeah. 00:09:20.220 --> 00:09:27.300 I mean, I wasn't thinking that when they did the, the, the demo because it looks slim. 00:09:27.300 --> 00:09:30.800 It looks like goggles, right? And you don't need a top strap for goggles. 00:09:30.800 --> 00:09:34.380 But this is, they said it's made of metal and glass. 00:09:34.380 --> 00:09:40.500 So like, yeah, it's, it's, it's like, do you want to wear ski goggles made? 00:09:40.500 --> 00:09:47.500 Like it's, it's their ski goggles, but with a computer inside, including the M2 chip. 00:09:47.500 --> 00:09:58.380 So it's like a full computer. And the R1 processor. And the new R1 processor, which is only to handle all the input from all of these sensors 00:09:58.380 --> 00:10:04.460 that it has. Does this page have stuff about sensors here for the cameras and sensors? 00:10:04.460 --> 00:10:07.620 Give me something good. It has. Ooh, here we go. 00:10:07.620 --> 00:10:11.580 Yeah. Got to say, I love, I love their sights. 00:10:11.580 --> 00:10:15.100 I, you know what? Like, they know how to design things. 00:10:15.100 --> 00:10:22.020 Here's, here's the thing, because if you cared about VR, like nerds, like I'm a nerd. 00:10:22.020 --> 00:10:29.220 I'm not like a, you know, uh, Linus level nerd, but I'm a nerd and I like VR. 00:10:29.220 --> 00:10:34.300 I think it's cool. I've definitely experimented with it on my own time outside of what we've had to do 00:10:34.300 --> 00:10:37.340 for work and like, I'm into it. 00:10:37.340 --> 00:10:41.700 And so I think that seeing this presentation, it's $3,500. 00:10:41.700 --> 00:10:44.940 Obviously, I'm not going to buy it. That is ridiculous. 00:10:44.940 --> 00:10:48.500 It's going to be for the very wealthy early adopters. Is it though? 00:10:48.500 --> 00:10:53.940 It is. But, okay, wait, devil's advocate, go from Apple's perspective. 00:10:53.940 --> 00:10:56.940 Okay. It's worth it. Why? 00:10:56.940 --> 00:11:02.860 Here's the thing. So I thought the MediQuest Pro was the stupidest thing I've ever heard of in my life. 00:11:02.860 --> 00:11:08.380 Whoa. When they announced it, I mean, obviously they did that massive price cut and I'm pretty 00:11:08.380 --> 00:11:12.980 sure they confirmed that they're not doing an update. They're not doing a sequel to that. 00:11:12.980 --> 00:11:15.980 They're not? To the MediQuest Pro. No, no, no, no. 00:11:15.980 --> 00:11:21.420 Really? I'm pretty sure. Like someone up at Metta said like, yeah, they're not, because it did not do well at 00:11:21.420 --> 00:11:24.700 all. No, it did not. 00:11:24.700 --> 00:11:30.820 But it also came out like as VR was dying, like when did it, when did it come out? 00:11:30.820 --> 00:11:37.380 It came out November 2022, just as AI was like really taking off. 00:11:37.380 --> 00:11:42.300 That? Dali 2 had dominated the news cycle and then ChatGPT came out a month later. 00:11:42.300 --> 00:11:47.620 Well, here's, here's, I mean, but that honestly, I don't even think that matters because if 00:11:47.620 --> 00:11:52.340 the product was good, it could have revived VR or kept it alive. 00:11:52.340 --> 00:11:56.740 It could have, what it should have done and what Apple is obviously trying to do here 00:11:56.740 --> 00:12:01.940 is trying to bridge the gap between, because the MediQuest Pro, they specifically were 00:12:01.940 --> 00:12:05.100 targeting Enterprise. Like they were like, oh, this is all about business. 00:12:05.100 --> 00:12:11.380 You can use this in business to have meetings from remotely where you can have avatars even 00:12:11.380 --> 00:12:18.340 though like people are already doing things in person and the pandemic's kind of ending. 00:12:18.340 --> 00:12:21.780 But still. So that was their focus. 00:12:21.780 --> 00:12:26.700 Now what Apple's done and you see that in the presentation is yeah, they talk about 00:12:26.700 --> 00:12:33.620 what you can do with it at work. But the first thing they show you is a woman in the WWC keynote is a woman sitting on her 00:12:33.620 --> 00:12:37.740 couch just using it casually. 00:12:37.740 --> 00:12:42.860 That's the first thing you see. And then they spend, and I timed this, about five minutes talking about how it can work 00:12:42.860 --> 00:12:47.820 for you at work and then about five minutes equally talking about what it can do for you 00:12:47.820 --> 00:12:54.740 at home. Yeah. I was actually surprised how little time they spent talking about the applications 00:12:54.740 --> 00:12:59.660 for work, especially because it's a pro product. 00:12:59.660 --> 00:13:06.020 A couple of people have pointed out at this point that it's $3,500, but they were also 00:13:06.020 --> 00:13:11.620 explicitly launching it as a pro, it's a vision pro, not just Apple vision. 00:13:11.620 --> 00:13:18.020 And with everything else, we got the non-pro product before we got the pro, the iPhone, 00:13:18.020 --> 00:13:22.780 then the iPhone pro, watch, and then the watch Ultra, and then the iPad, and then the iPad 00:13:22.820 --> 00:13:27.540 pro, and I mean MacBook. We're waiting for the vision pro Max. 00:13:27.540 --> 00:13:30.900 Yeah, vision pro Max, vision pro Max Ultra. 00:13:30.900 --> 00:13:33.900 It's just a helmet. It's a whole head transplant. 00:13:33.900 --> 00:13:38.500 Dude, now when I'm drinking water, come on. Yeah, I was surprised. 00:13:38.500 --> 00:13:44.300 Yeah, but like that's, here's sort of the genius of Apple at work, at least in marketing 00:13:44.300 --> 00:13:50.860 and the way they design their products is that they specifically show that this device, 00:13:50.860 --> 00:13:56.220 so Meta is a company that you know for social media, right? 00:13:56.220 --> 00:14:00.180 They have Facebook, they have Instagram, they have Oculus, that's like the one hardware 00:14:00.180 --> 00:14:06.620 thing that they do. You don't really think about the brain loss. Apple has, first of all, the luxury of having an ecosystem, but the other thing is that 00:14:06.620 --> 00:14:10.700 everybody's familiar with that ecosystem, even the people that don't use it. 00:14:10.700 --> 00:14:14.460 So when they show off the vision pro, they don't have to talk that much about what it 00:14:14.460 --> 00:14:19.780 can do because basically what they're saying is, oh, it's a Mac you can put on your face, 00:14:19.780 --> 00:14:24.220 but then also on top of being a Mac you can put on your face, it can interface with your 00:14:24.220 --> 00:14:29.140 Mac and your iPad and your iPhone wirelessly. 00:14:29.140 --> 00:14:36.300 It's huge and like following this story as it developed for so long, did you have a sense 00:14:36.300 --> 00:14:39.900 of watching, when we were watching the keynote, did you have a sense of like, oh my gosh, 00:14:39.900 --> 00:14:44.500 this is happening, this is real? Yeah. It was like an out of body experience for me. 00:14:44.500 --> 00:14:51.140 I don't know if I go that far. Not because I was so, so excited, but I was just kind of like, this is the reality I live 00:14:51.140 --> 00:14:54.940 in is that Apple just is launching a VR headset. 00:14:54.940 --> 00:14:57.940 What? It's messed up. Well, I know. 00:14:57.940 --> 00:15:01.260 I mean, me and Mark Gurman have a, we go way back. 00:15:01.260 --> 00:15:05.380 We have a very one-sided relationship, but I follow all of everything he writes because 00:15:05.380 --> 00:15:10.860 I have to. And so everything that he said, like everything, most of the things that were in the keynote, 00:15:10.860 --> 00:15:15.420 I already kind of knew from Mark Gurman's slow leaks. 00:15:15.420 --> 00:15:20.540 He was DMing you. So you were DMing him. No, it's just his newsletters, man. 00:15:20.540 --> 00:15:26.780 He's good. He protects his sources and he informs the public. And like, so if you read what he says about Apple, like he, like it's there. 00:15:26.780 --> 00:15:30.500 So like all of the things he said about like the, creating the persona, having said that, 00:15:30.500 --> 00:15:33.700 I'm pretty sure he predicted that it would produce, I thought it was going to produce 00:15:33.700 --> 00:15:36.980 like a full body sort of model. 00:15:36.980 --> 00:15:46.260 Oh, they never really talked about that. Of the persona? One of the things he said originally was that two people with the Apple's headset, they 00:15:46.260 --> 00:15:52.740 would be able to basically, it would create a virtual version of each other. 00:15:52.740 --> 00:15:57.380 So it was like when you two are talking, you're in the same room, but it was only for two 00:15:57.380 --> 00:16:03.480 because it would take too much processing power. They didn't talk about that at all in the keynote. 00:16:03.480 --> 00:16:09.300 So I don't know if that's actually true, but we saw them show a normal persona that 00:16:09.300 --> 00:16:12.460 just fits in a nice little square that you would use for FaceTime. 00:16:12.460 --> 00:16:18.820 Right, right. But like most of the things that were said at the keynote, like I expected, there were 00:16:18.820 --> 00:16:24.740 things I didn't expect though, like the whole environment thing and the adjustable immersion. 00:16:24.740 --> 00:16:32.540 Right. For anyone who doesn't know, environments, it's just the VR function. 00:16:32.540 --> 00:16:36.980 That's just what it is. Is it shuts off the rest of the world so you don't see outside, there's no pass through 00:16:36.980 --> 00:16:40.700 and you see something else. This is just crazy as well. The shadows? 00:16:40.700 --> 00:16:47.780 Yeah. It doesn't seem that hard and I know that probably other companies could do this with 00:16:47.780 --> 00:16:52.380 their AR products, but I think seeing the Apple polish and I know this is just a render, 00:16:52.380 --> 00:16:59.900 but like it's not usually like Apple to show a demo like this and then to have you experience 00:16:59.900 --> 00:17:04.140 it and have it be like, oh, that was just marketing. 00:17:04.140 --> 00:17:09.820 And to that point, most of the people who tried it out actually said, this looks good. 00:17:09.820 --> 00:17:12.820 Yeah. It's not evolution. It's responsive. 00:17:12.820 --> 00:17:15.820 Yeah. I mean, Mark has said. There were some drawbacks. 00:17:15.820 --> 00:17:20.820 Yeah. I think there was like, at least when I was reading the Verges coverage of what they did, 00:17:20.820 --> 00:17:26.420 there were things that they weren't able to try. I don't think they were able to try taking 3D video. 00:17:26.420 --> 00:17:31.580 What I'm super disappointed with still is the fact that you can't use it with glasses. 00:17:31.580 --> 00:17:37.780 I mean, like, you know, how many nerds are there out there that are into VR that wear 00:17:37.780 --> 00:17:46.340 glasses? Probably lots. There's also a lot of nerds that make a lot of money and can probably afford the Zeiss 00:17:46.340 --> 00:17:49.340 lenses. Yeah. Sorry. 00:17:49.340 --> 00:17:52.700 I mean, like, so my rage towards this is probably misplaced to the fact that you have to buy 00:17:52.700 --> 00:17:57.580 Zeiss prescription lenses that are compatible, like from Apple that you can screw on to the 00:17:57.580 --> 00:18:03.820 actual lenses. The N-real or not the N-real, the Rokid, the recent AR glasses that I did on ShortCircuit, 00:18:03.820 --> 00:18:08.460 the Rokid had built in, I forget what it's called, but it's the thing. 00:18:08.460 --> 00:18:11.660 Myopic adjustment. Something like that. 00:18:11.660 --> 00:18:15.020 I forget, there's a word, I forget the word, but it's basically, I could use it without 00:18:15.020 --> 00:18:19.900 my glasses. And I could, there was a dial where I could dial it in and then I could see it clearly. 00:18:19.900 --> 00:18:24.140 And that was great. And I'm like, why can't Apple just throw in something like that, you know? 00:18:24.140 --> 00:18:27.380 It's kind of silly. Like, they even have the crown on there. 00:18:27.380 --> 00:18:31.620 They threw on the digital crown from the Apple Watch, but the only thing that they've 00:18:31.620 --> 00:18:37.500 shown that being for in the demos is to transition from the kind of AR mode where you can see 00:18:37.500 --> 00:18:42.660 the outside world to the environment, quote-unquote, VR mode. 00:18:42.660 --> 00:18:45.980 And I'm like, is that really what that's for? Yeah. 00:18:45.980 --> 00:18:50.420 Could you brought that up? Because that's incremental. 00:18:50.420 --> 00:18:54.180 So it's not like all or nothing. Yeah. Yeah. 00:18:54.180 --> 00:18:57.660 But I'm like, what's the point of that? Why do you want an incremental environment? According to... 00:18:57.660 --> 00:19:04.420 I'm partially in space. According to the Apple, according to the Verge, it's that what Apple imagines is that in the 00:19:04.420 --> 00:19:10.060 workplace, you have most of your screen real estate being the environment and then you 00:19:10.060 --> 00:19:15.340 have your peripheral open so you can still see and interact with your coworkers. 00:19:15.340 --> 00:19:19.980 Here's the other... I just thought of this, this might be BS, but here's the other reason you might need 00:19:19.980 --> 00:19:27.700 this is that... So they showed that kind of like you're sitting and then a person walks in and all of a sudden 00:19:27.740 --> 00:19:31.660 you see them and they're looking at you like they just appear in the environment. 00:19:31.660 --> 00:19:37.380 Now that's probably fine in say a home environment when you're doing something normal, ideally 00:19:37.380 --> 00:19:42.260 not watching like a horror movie, but like in the office, in the office when you're like 00:19:42.260 --> 00:19:50.900 in a flow state, you're probably sitting at a desk, people can't come and walk in front 00:19:50.900 --> 00:19:54.100 of you. They're going to probably want to walk to the side of you. 00:19:54.100 --> 00:19:57.380 I wouldn't really want people, even if I was wearing this headset to be tapping me on 00:19:57.380 --> 00:20:02.060 the shoulder. I'm kind of one of those people. I don't like that, especially not when I'm in somewhere and then all of a sudden I feel 00:20:02.060 --> 00:20:07.660 touched and I'm seeing desert sands and all of a sudden I feel someone touch me. 00:20:07.660 --> 00:20:13.340 That's a little... I mean, I think that like if you're using it at work, you probably are aware of the fact 00:20:13.340 --> 00:20:16.700 that people are probably going to have to talk to you at some point. 00:20:16.700 --> 00:20:24.500 Have you seen these environments though? They take you away. There might be Star Wars ones too, because of Disney, so I'm going to be on Tatooine. 00:20:24.500 --> 00:20:30.060 And that's a whole other thing. But that's why I can understand why you might want to leave that open, so that when people 00:20:30.060 --> 00:20:34.220 come to the side of your desk and they're like, hey, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, 00:20:34.220 --> 00:20:38.220 and they start talking, you can still hear them. You know what I don't understand? 00:20:38.220 --> 00:20:49.140 This. I just don't know about this, because almost every demo image they have of this is pretty 00:20:49.140 --> 00:20:58.580 much straight on. So like if this person looks around, if you do one of these, okay, your eyes are doing 00:20:58.580 --> 00:21:06.100 a whole circle, like it's like putting tubes on your eyes and then you're doing this and 00:21:06.100 --> 00:21:10.340 look what the tubes are doing. It's going to look goofy. 00:21:10.340 --> 00:21:14.100 So it's like, what was the kind of the point of this? It's like you can have social interactions. 00:21:14.100 --> 00:21:17.220 I'm not sure I understood the tube analogy here. Look at this. 00:21:18.060 --> 00:21:21.060 Look at this. You're saying you have like snail eyes? Look at this. 00:21:21.060 --> 00:21:29.060 Look at this. Yeah. Imagine my eyes on the end of this tube and now I'm like, yes, yes, that no, like my eyes 00:21:29.060 --> 00:21:34.380 are doing loop-de-loops. They're all over the place. Maybe it's got some sort of adjustment for that. 00:21:34.380 --> 00:21:38.780 Maybe I've not explained this properly. No, no, no, I get it now. I get it now because it's like different from you. 00:21:38.780 --> 00:21:43.660 It's like away from your face, so like they're going to move at a larger angle than the rest 00:21:43.660 --> 00:21:47.660 of your face is. Yeah. It's hard for me to explain. 00:21:47.660 --> 00:21:56.020 The point is, it's like this is cool, but it's also kind of pointless because any social 00:21:56.020 --> 00:22:01.580 interaction you have with someone that is like significant enough, that is significantly 00:22:01.580 --> 00:22:07.820 long enough to justify showing your eyes on the front, is also going to be one in which 00:22:07.820 --> 00:22:12.180 you take the headset off because screw that. 00:22:12.180 --> 00:22:15.340 No, those are the people that want me to take my headset off. 00:22:15.580 --> 00:22:19.700 I spent $3,500 on that headset. I am not taking it off. 00:22:19.700 --> 00:22:21.900 I am being immersed. This is my reality now. 00:22:22.780 --> 00:22:27.740 I think that this is, I'm not saying it's the perfect solution, but I can see why they 00:22:27.740 --> 00:22:33.420 did it. They needed something that would sort of bridge that gap and I kind of, you know, I was looking 00:22:33.420 --> 00:22:37.020 at this, how they have this, they really want to focus. 00:22:37.020 --> 00:22:42.940 They have this emphasis on the transition between being isolated and then having outside 00:22:42.980 --> 00:22:48.700 awareness, but also being able to interact with the outside world while still maintaining 00:22:48.700 --> 00:22:57.820 the usage of the device. And that's really the biggest obstacle to VR when you think about it, like the joke 00:22:57.820 --> 00:23:03.140 is like you see someone in a full VR setup and they have like a bodysuit on that tracks 00:23:03.140 --> 00:23:08.220 every movement and then all of a sudden like their mom calls them for dinner and they got 00:23:08.220 --> 00:23:13.580 to take all of it off to the upstairs. Like I, you're not going to, you're going to take this off too. 00:23:14.420 --> 00:23:17.580 Sounds like what's it, I don't know if it's comfortable enough. I don't know if I would. 00:23:17.580 --> 00:23:20.700 I mean, they did, they studied dinner, wearing a VR headset, Riley. 00:23:20.700 --> 00:23:22.580 They studied thousands of heads. 00:23:24.660 --> 00:23:30.700 It serves the function of, of letting people know when they can see, letting, yeah, letting 00:23:30.740 --> 00:23:37.180 an outside person know when the person in VR can see them. Yeah. When we're ready, when I'm ready to give a about you, you'll know because you'll see 00:23:37.180 --> 00:23:43.460 my fake eyes. But can that also be achieved by speaking to the person and having the person respond 00:23:44.980 --> 00:23:48.100 and say one second or it's also a phone. 00:23:48.780 --> 00:23:55.660 It's a fair, but I could see a scenario where this could fulfill, fulfill a function for 00:23:55.660 --> 00:24:00.620 someone in VR to like be sassy to someone outside because you walk up to them, you're 00:24:00.620 --> 00:24:04.340 like, Hey, can I talk to you? And then you see their eyes appear on the headset. 00:24:06.140 --> 00:24:09.980 They don't say anything. They just look. It's like, you can see me, right? They don't say anything. 00:24:09.980 --> 00:24:14.820 It's like, wow, I'm glad Apple put this feature in. So this person could be passive aggressive to me. 00:24:14.980 --> 00:24:21.380 I want to talk about meta and I want to talk about what is going to happen to VR because, 00:24:22.340 --> 00:24:27.500 you know, spatial computing, we've been around, sorry, spatial computing. 00:24:27.700 --> 00:24:32.780 We've been around to see kind of the rises and falls of these tech of this tech. 00:24:32.820 --> 00:24:39.020 VR has been a niche thing. The quest one came out in 2019 and the pandemic hit. 00:24:39.220 --> 00:24:43.300 People were like, Hey, actually, this is cool. Yeah, we're staying at home. 00:24:43.300 --> 00:24:49.540 And now, like that, that is part of what drove an increased interest in VR to such 00:24:49.540 --> 00:24:58.260 an extent that meta released the quest to October 13th, 2020, right after I'm going 00:24:58.260 --> 00:25:02.540 to show you their stock, right after where's 2020. 00:25:02.740 --> 00:25:08.260 So like, here's where they release the quest to before that point. 00:25:08.500 --> 00:25:12.740 You know, it's kind of a steady. It looks like a tech giant stock. It's just kind of like slowly going up. 00:25:13.420 --> 00:25:19.020 They release that. I don't know what the dip is about, but then this is like, ooh, VR hype, metaverse hype. 00:25:19.020 --> 00:25:22.740 Everyone's talking about metaverse, metaverse, metaverse all day, every day. 00:25:23.020 --> 00:25:27.060 And then that confidence as everyone else comes in and starts talking about meta about 00:25:27.060 --> 00:25:31.020 meta metaverse stuff, you remember, or you weren't here for that part. 00:25:31.060 --> 00:25:34.620 But I existed in the world. And so in that way, I remember. 00:25:34.660 --> 00:25:38.460 Okay. I'm not sure how that works. So existing in a world. 00:25:39.820 --> 00:25:43.580 Yeah, because I'm so into the metaverse and so and all these people were too. 00:25:43.620 --> 00:25:47.980 It's a big spike. And then so we get into 2022. 00:25:48.500 --> 00:25:52.900 Now there's a bunch of stuff happening with meta, you know, they made some gaffes. 00:25:53.140 --> 00:25:56.340 I don't want to go over their entire stock history, but the main thing I want to 00:25:56.340 --> 00:26:03.540 point out here is that Dolly too comes out and that is sort of the starting point 00:26:03.540 --> 00:26:12.180 for the AI hype. Yeah. Over the course of 2022, AI just steals the show from VR for metaverse stuff at all. 00:26:12.660 --> 00:26:19.620 And it's all been about AI stuff. I think it's also important to note that this was like the end of like pandemic era 00:26:19.620 --> 00:26:22.900 demand. That's true. That's that's a factor as well. 00:26:23.140 --> 00:26:27.100 MetaQuest Pro comes out in November 2022. 00:26:27.380 --> 00:26:31.980 Meta has had an identity crisis. They went from Facebook because that's the whole reason they've renamed, right? 00:26:32.020 --> 00:26:38.340 It's because Facebook had all of this data leaking scandal, election fraud stuff, 00:26:38.340 --> 00:26:41.900 like, you know, Cambridge Analytica and all that stuff. Like they tried to use it. 00:26:41.900 --> 00:26:45.940 They tried to escape from all that and try to make a new identity for themselves. 00:26:45.940 --> 00:26:49.980 Okay. Like, yeah, we own Facebook, but really we're going to be all about the metaverse. 00:26:49.980 --> 00:26:56.700 We're going to be VR AR. Let's go. And then hype just died off and they're like, Oh, well, it's a good thing. 00:26:56.700 --> 00:26:59.780 We got our AI researchers going in the background. Let's focus on that. 00:26:59.820 --> 00:27:03.860 We're going to dump stuff into AI. And so that looked like it was going to be a thing. 00:27:04.140 --> 00:27:07.700 And then open AI comes out and they're just like chat, GBT, what's up? 00:27:08.020 --> 00:27:13.500 And it's like, Oh, right. Meta is doing important research still and like Lama, it was their model that 00:27:13.500 --> 00:27:19.220 will, you know, is now kind of out in the public. It got leaked and so that's, they are a basis for. 00:27:19.260 --> 00:27:22.340 Revolutionizing open source AI right now. 00:27:22.340 --> 00:27:26.060 LLM, as we know it. For sure. But, you know, they're not getting any money from that. 00:27:26.100 --> 00:27:30.020 They are not. Um, so now they're like, okay, wait. 00:27:30.300 --> 00:27:36.500 So we can't, you know, we got leapfrogged, uh, in, uh, in AI. 00:27:37.220 --> 00:27:41.140 So maybe we can go back to doing VR stuff and then they released the Quest Pro. 00:27:41.500 --> 00:27:46.060 It flops. Apple comes out a few months later and releases this thing. 00:27:46.100 --> 00:27:50.700 And now they're just like, like, what did we do? Are we, what do we do as a company? 00:27:51.260 --> 00:27:53.380 Go back to social media. Everyone hates you. 00:27:55.900 --> 00:27:59.100 Are they dead? They might be dead. I mean, Instagram still gets. 00:27:59.260 --> 00:28:02.020 I mean, yes, sorry, they're not dead, they're far from dead. 00:28:02.380 --> 00:28:09.420 It's true. I really feel like part of it too. I don't think the only reason they renamed was, was to escape the scandal. 00:28:09.420 --> 00:28:13.620 I think part of it was that Zuckerberg realized the truth. 00:28:13.620 --> 00:28:20.380 And that is that Facebook is a dying platform. They have this company, Oculus, that became the name of VR. 00:28:20.540 --> 00:28:25.540 And it's still maintained that for a very long time, still now. 00:28:25.540 --> 00:28:27.940 And I think VR on PC, I think Oculus. Yeah. 00:28:28.940 --> 00:28:32.740 So his gamble wasn't stupid. 00:28:33.100 --> 00:28:36.780 It was, it was, it was educated, but he didn't do it right. 00:28:36.820 --> 00:28:44.620 And, and his focus was not maybe in the right place. So he tried to remake them after they already owned a company 00:28:44.620 --> 00:28:49.380 that was the name of VR, VR, right, which is weird. 00:28:49.380 --> 00:28:53.500 I would have, I would have made it like there's, I would have made them Oculus instead. 00:28:53.500 --> 00:28:57.820 I would have made the overarching name like Oculus or some sort of version of Oculus. 00:28:57.860 --> 00:29:01.220 I don't think people would, I don't know if people would accept that. 00:29:01.220 --> 00:29:05.980 I mean, I don't know whether accepting the name is even a part of that equation. 00:29:05.980 --> 00:29:09.380 But anyway, now going into the future, he made this wrong gamble. 00:29:09.620 --> 00:29:18.780 He's gotten leapfrogged over AI, though he has arguably access to one of the largest data sets ever. 00:29:18.820 --> 00:29:23.140 I mean, then that's why that's probably a big part of why we were able to get into AI. 00:29:23.140 --> 00:29:30.780 So like that probably looks great for, I mean, hell, we looked at Cicero. 00:29:31.140 --> 00:29:37.260 Yeah. And that was incredibly impressive. Like they, they probably are going to do great for AI in terms of VR. 00:29:38.260 --> 00:29:43.500 I think, I think in terms of people who just want a game and who want to have that experience, 00:29:43.500 --> 00:29:47.140 because it is the least the first time you do it. They might game on a mind blow. 00:29:48.660 --> 00:29:52.380 The first time you put on a VR headset, it is a mind blowing experience. 00:29:52.380 --> 00:29:56.180 I remember getting the PSVR, putting it on and playing Star Wars squadrons. 00:29:56.700 --> 00:30:01.100 And, and it was like, it was like I was living a childhood dream of piloting an X-Wing. 00:30:01.100 --> 00:30:04.340 And I legitimately cried. Tears came out of my eyes. Wow. 00:30:04.860 --> 00:30:09.380 I was there were tears of joy. It was, it was, it was like a life changing experience for a moment. 00:30:09.500 --> 00:30:13.020 I 100% empathize with that. I had like a very similar experience. 00:30:13.180 --> 00:30:18.060 But yeah, it was very much like a, this is, this is happening. 00:30:18.060 --> 00:30:21.060 I'm in an X-Wing. Yeah, I'm a pilot. I'm a rebel pilot. 00:30:21.180 --> 00:30:30.420 And then I played, and then I played a VR game called Blood and Truth, which is like a super cool cinematic like spy slash like gangster game. 00:30:30.420 --> 00:30:34.020 And I was like, this is how all games should be always and forever 00:30:34.060 --> 00:30:40.380 until the end of time. It's really funny, like as someone who has used VR extensively, 00:30:40.900 --> 00:30:46.260 it's, it is funny how there wasn't more of a reaction of like, oh my gosh, 00:30:46.260 --> 00:30:53.900 this is what gaming needs to be. Yeah. But I think that, you know, people are in different life situations. 00:30:54.300 --> 00:31:00.940 I have almost no time to do this anymore as a father or doing renovations 00:31:00.940 --> 00:31:05.620 stuff in my apartment. I'm so busy, but like for people with more time, you know, you, you, 00:31:06.140 --> 00:31:10.460 you set up your space, you like get used to the whole thing. 00:31:10.460 --> 00:31:13.460 It's not, you know, it's not a plug and play experience like a console 00:31:13.460 --> 00:31:17.300 where you just hook it up to your TV and you sit down, you play. It's like, you know, a little bit more involved. 00:31:17.300 --> 00:31:21.260 So I understand why it didn't catch on, but like as a gamer with the time to do 00:31:21.260 --> 00:31:26.020 it, it's like, why? So. But here's what you just said. 00:31:26.020 --> 00:31:31.300 Here's kind of the genius and the potential projection of the future 00:31:31.340 --> 00:31:36.100 of, of spatial computing based on the vision pros, everything you just said. 00:31:36.100 --> 00:31:38.540 So like you're running around, you don't have that much time to game. 00:31:39.260 --> 00:31:43.860 Let's say you bought a vision pro for some reason, you put it on, you can 00:31:43.860 --> 00:31:47.660 play a hundred games on Apple Arcade on day one. 00:31:48.060 --> 00:31:53.260 Apple Arcade with game controller support and help maybe, maybe there will 00:31:53.260 --> 00:31:57.580 be game porting toolkit support later, which would be insane and super cool. 00:31:57.700 --> 00:32:03.500 Can you imagine that? But well, I don't know if the M two in the maybe not headset can like run 00:32:03.500 --> 00:32:10.140 Windows games to the fidelity. I mean, like people are running on an M two max one max and it was chugging a 00:32:10.140 --> 00:32:13.500 little bit chugging a little bit, but I met like, but like, was an M one max. 00:32:13.540 --> 00:32:17.420 Yeah. The cyberpunk was running on an M one and maybe, but so it's possible. 00:32:17.700 --> 00:32:21.020 The other, the other thing is like, so, you know, you have a little bit of time 00:32:21.020 --> 00:32:24.580 to game or play or whatever you put on, you put on your vision pro, you're doing 00:32:24.580 --> 00:32:27.740 it and all of a sudden your, your wife calls you and like, Oh, when I need 00:32:27.740 --> 00:32:32.020 your help doing this thing, you don't have to take off the headset necessarily. 00:32:32.820 --> 00:32:38.740 If Apple is able to make people give people the feeling that they've 00:32:38.740 --> 00:32:42.380 forgotten they're wearing glasses, if they can get to the point where people 00:32:42.380 --> 00:32:45.620 were, where someone goes, honey, no, I mean, like literally, like, you know, 00:32:45.620 --> 00:32:49.940 how sometimes you forget you're wearing glasses. Like if you ever had the experience where you're like, crap, where'd I 00:32:49.940 --> 00:32:55.780 leave my glasses and they're on your face? I get what you're saying, but that's not going to, if they can get, if they 00:32:55.820 --> 00:33:00.900 can create, this is, this is what you're saying, but like in four years, 00:33:00.900 --> 00:33:07.060 yeah, that's what I'm glasses version. Well, that, but also if they can start to get us toward that point, then it 00:33:07.060 --> 00:33:10.220 becomes more of a, a consumer product. 00:33:10.300 --> 00:33:17.140 That's something that anybody can use. That's true. I, so I'll answer the question I asked earlier about, like, you know, META is 00:33:17.140 --> 00:33:21.180 VR over and stuff. As you said, I believe META is going to be fine. 00:33:21.180 --> 00:33:27.140 You know, they've, I don't, I don't see META going out of business anytime 00:33:27.140 --> 00:33:31.060 soon. They obviously, they still have Facebook, which, you know, as cringe as it is 00:33:31.060 --> 00:33:34.500 among younger people now, it's still probably profitable. 00:33:34.500 --> 00:33:37.740 Moms spend money. I don't know. Marketplace is thriving. 00:33:37.860 --> 00:33:43.380 Moms spend money. Facebook marketplace is used, it's like the primary way I see people buying and 00:33:43.380 --> 00:33:46.580 selling stuff, Instagram, WhatsApp, they have all these things. 00:33:46.940 --> 00:33:53.180 And so META is probably going to be fine. VR slash spatial computing, whatever. 00:33:53.460 --> 00:33:58.460 I think that if it survives, it will, and sorry, it will survive. 00:33:58.500 --> 00:34:02.460 It will, even if, even in a world in which Apple never released the Vision Pro, 00:34:02.940 --> 00:34:06.380 VR endures, that kind of keeps chugging in the background. 00:34:06.380 --> 00:34:09.860 It will remain a niche thing, but in a world in which Vision Pro has launched 00:34:09.860 --> 00:34:14.500 and which Apple continues to iterate on these products and maybe releases a more 00:34:14.500 --> 00:34:18.620 affordable version later, Apple is going to have an impact on this industry. 00:34:19.900 --> 00:34:23.940 To a similar level that they've had on like the smartwatch industry and the 00:34:23.940 --> 00:34:31.940 tablet industry and the laptop industry. Like there's a reason every high end Windows laptop looks kind of like a MacBook. 00:34:32.220 --> 00:34:37.540 There's a reason every tablet is compared to an iPad. There's a reason every smartwatch is compared to an Apple watch. 00:34:38.260 --> 00:34:43.820 Apple has released what I view as the category defining product in this industry. 00:34:44.740 --> 00:34:49.780 Even though it's $3,500, that's going to be bought by the really rich people. 00:34:50.500 --> 00:34:57.420 They're going to release a cheaper version later. I think that people who have a small apartment and maybe not a lot of room 00:34:58.460 --> 00:35:04.460 in this semi-dystopian future we're living in, they might buy this. 00:35:04.460 --> 00:35:10.300 It's literally ready player one. Like the real world is just like in shambles, but people go to the metaverse. 00:35:10.340 --> 00:35:16.260 It's more like they just don't have enough space for anything else. You're pitching the thing that you were so against. 00:35:16.260 --> 00:35:19.860 You're like, this came from snow crash. Like this is like a dystopian idea. 00:35:19.860 --> 00:35:26.580 You're pitching it. No, I'm not pitching them to live there. I'm pitching them as like, this is how you have an entertainment system. 00:35:26.580 --> 00:35:31.020 This is how you have leisure time after work in a small apartment. 00:35:31.180 --> 00:35:35.940 Get a steam deck. But that can't play movies with spatial audio. 00:35:35.980 --> 00:35:38.500 Get a steam deck and just tape it to your head. It's the same. 00:35:40.180 --> 00:35:45.020 I'm just kidding. It's exactly the same, just as heavy. And this is the same as any other Teclings episode. 00:35:45.020 --> 00:35:49.100 It's no different. Just kidding. Hey, we have to end now. 00:35:49.100 --> 00:35:52.140 That's we've been going for way too long. This is why we don't do talk links anymore. 00:35:52.140 --> 00:35:58.100 Just kidding. We're going to do more talk links. If you like this kind of format, well, I don't want to promise anything. 00:35:58.260 --> 00:36:01.260 But the idea is that we're going to do more of these and we're going to do more 00:36:01.460 --> 00:36:03.380 on the other channel. 00:36:08.060 --> 00:36:10.420 And so thanks for watching. 00:36:11.060 --> 00:36:15.260 Leave a comment about your thoughts about what you could have said if you were here 00:36:15.260 --> 00:36:17.700 and see you soon. Love you. Love you too. 00:36:18.340 --> 00:36:21.820 Oh, you're talking to them. Cut that cut that.