1 00:00:00,000 --> 00:00:06,240 You're recording? Oh, yeah. I would ask that and I was like, yeah, I have to double check. 2 00:00:06,240 --> 00:00:09,800 My glasses. It's OK. 3 00:00:09,800 --> 00:00:13,840 We'll make it work. All right. I am here with? Jonathan Horst. 4 00:00:13,840 --> 00:00:20,040 And what do you do for the company? I write, host, produce, American Dress. 5 00:00:20,040 --> 00:00:23,080 The Apple Focus channel. We love that channel. 6 00:00:23,080 --> 00:00:29,520 Oh, I think. I like it, actually. I feel like I watched the, I watched, I think, Hoffman edited it. 7 00:00:29,560 --> 00:00:32,760 They're the most recent one. Yeah. That was really good. I liked it. I watched the whole thing. 8 00:00:32,760 --> 00:00:36,800 I was like, interesting. You'll be so lucky. 9 00:00:36,800 --> 00:00:40,320 No. I'm not. I'm not that kind of editor. 10 00:00:40,320 --> 00:00:44,280 You sure? Yeah. It's not my strength. 11 00:00:44,280 --> 00:00:47,880 All right. I mean, I was like, maybe it is. We'll find out. 12 00:00:47,880 --> 00:00:53,840 What's that? All right. So I'm just asking everyone in the company what their thoughts on AI it is. 13 00:00:53,840 --> 00:00:54,800 Oh, my God. 14 00:00:57,880 --> 00:01:01,240 Over-hyped? Over-hyped? Maybe incorrectly named. 15 00:01:05,840 --> 00:01:09,560 Annoying? I don't know. 16 00:01:09,560 --> 00:01:13,200 What is there to know? I don't even feel like I know enough about it, 17 00:01:13,200 --> 00:01:16,920 but I'm annoyed by the hype around it. 18 00:01:16,920 --> 00:01:21,560 Let's wait till the door closes. It don't work. 19 00:01:21,560 --> 00:01:24,720 Yeah, I'm not a lot of the bad idea, but we're committed. 20 00:01:24,720 --> 00:01:28,480 We committed to this location, and it's our fault. 21 00:01:29,480 --> 00:01:33,400 Yeah, just. Yeah, go ahead. It's OK. The bid is committed. 22 00:01:33,400 --> 00:01:37,360 It's committed. It's footprint. Yeah. 23 00:01:37,360 --> 00:01:41,720 Yeah. OK, so it sounds like you don't like it at all. 24 00:01:41,720 --> 00:01:47,120 I mean, OK, so here's the problem. Especially this past year, with the release of chat 25 00:01:47,120 --> 00:01:53,800 GPT and the mid-journey bot and all this weird stuff, everyone started attributing all this amazing capability 26 00:01:53,800 --> 00:01:57,840 to something that really hasn't been proven. 27 00:01:57,840 --> 00:02:03,200 And so I think we got a little fooled by what it was doing and thought it could do more. 28 00:02:03,200 --> 00:02:07,200 And think it can do more than it can. And we're thinking of it as like, 29 00:02:07,200 --> 00:02:13,200 it's going to just do the thing we want it to do when it's probably just going to be yet another tool in the toolbox 30 00:02:13,200 --> 00:02:16,520 to help. You still have to do the thing, though. You know what I mean? 31 00:02:16,520 --> 00:02:20,560 So when people are like, writers are going to be out of jobs 32 00:02:20,560 --> 00:02:23,560 because you could just use chat GPT, it's like. 33 00:02:23,560 --> 00:02:26,520 And I'm not sure about that, because it's just 34 00:02:26,560 --> 00:02:30,440 a summary of all the writing it's ever looked at. 35 00:02:30,440 --> 00:02:35,280 So how are you going to get any new ideas or new ways of thinking about things or new thinking? 36 00:02:35,280 --> 00:02:39,560 Because that's what writing is. From that, I don't know. 37 00:02:39,560 --> 00:02:44,160 OK, well, surprisingly, you're the first person I interviewed today who is really against it. 38 00:02:44,160 --> 00:02:49,160 So against it. But what's one thing you like about AI, then? 39 00:02:52,600 --> 00:02:59,160 I don't know. I haven't really, ah, AI is such a broad term. 40 00:02:59,160 --> 00:03:04,240 I guess AI in the current state. Or in the current culture. 41 00:03:04,240 --> 00:03:04,740 Exactly. 42 00:03:16,880 --> 00:03:21,160 It's impressive, but I'm not impressed, if that makes any sense. 43 00:03:21,160 --> 00:03:24,600 It's like, I don't know, I dabbled with mid-journey. 44 00:03:24,600 --> 00:03:28,800 And I was like, if you have broad strokes, 45 00:03:28,800 --> 00:03:34,560 you'll get an interesting image. But then if you want anything specific from the real world 46 00:03:34,560 --> 00:03:37,560 or something like that, it just starts making stuff up. 47 00:03:37,560 --> 00:03:44,720 And you're like, ah, it's a bit of a fever dream still. And it's like, I don't know. 48 00:03:44,720 --> 00:03:50,000 It can only get you so far, it feels like. And then hearing about people writing emails with chat GPT 49 00:03:50,000 --> 00:03:55,600 or something like that, it becomes this weird question of, well, what's the point? 50 00:03:55,600 --> 00:04:00,480 If you're not willing to put effort into saying 51 00:04:00,480 --> 00:04:04,840 what you want to convey, then are you saying anything? 52 00:04:04,840 --> 00:04:11,240 I don't know. So it just makes everything so much harder to trust. 53 00:04:11,240 --> 00:04:18,440 And so I find these concerns way bigger than the benefits. 54 00:04:18,440 --> 00:04:22,080 And so I'm just like, I just haven't 55 00:04:22,080 --> 00:04:25,920 bothered to really play around too much with it. 56 00:04:25,920 --> 00:04:31,040 So I'm not the most experienced, I could say. But when I have dabbled with it, I've been like, oh, 57 00:04:31,040 --> 00:04:34,280 this is kind of neat. But and maybe this could be a tool, 58 00:04:34,280 --> 00:04:40,680 like I guess Adobe's generative fill is kind of interesting. 59 00:04:40,680 --> 00:04:46,600 But it's like, they're demonstrating it. And look, we could make this image so much wider. 60 00:04:46,720 --> 00:04:52,680 We can fill it just from this tiny little portrait. We could turn it into a whole landscape thing. 61 00:04:52,680 --> 00:04:56,720 And it's like, yeah, I guess that's cool. But it's also like, what is the picture then anymore? 62 00:04:56,720 --> 00:05:01,160 Whereas it's probably a really great tool when you're trying to do a cool effect 63 00:05:01,160 --> 00:05:04,280 or you take the subject foreground or the background. 64 00:05:04,280 --> 00:05:08,360 But when you do that, the background has that thing cut out of it. 65 00:05:08,360 --> 00:05:12,360 So you could fill it with the generative fill, that little space. And that would be really great. 66 00:05:12,360 --> 00:05:17,440 You know what I mean? It's great for small things. It got marketed to us as this big thing. 67 00:05:17,440 --> 00:05:23,200 And so I think then it becomes really hard to trust it or understand it within those limitations 68 00:05:23,200 --> 00:05:30,080 and then be able to take advantage of it there. Instead, we're being hyped on this new future that actually 69 00:05:30,080 --> 00:05:36,760 sounds worse. You know what I mean? Yeah, no. I always talk about AI as like, oh, I know, we've always had it. 70 00:05:36,760 --> 00:05:40,880 It's like in a small scale, like you said. But it's like, now that it's this big scale thing, 71 00:05:40,880 --> 00:05:45,920 like, oh, it can take over jobs. So I thought that's like, oh, OK, that's not really. 72 00:05:45,920 --> 00:05:50,320 What's being said is that. I don't buy that. Yeah, near do I, yeah. 73 00:05:50,320 --> 00:05:54,520 Yeah, yeah. So yeah, so it's annoying. 74 00:05:54,520 --> 00:05:58,200 It's really annoying. I feel like, and then I get an argument with people about it. 75 00:05:58,200 --> 00:06:02,880 I don't know what to say. Have you written something? It's going to be really satisfying when you figure out 76 00:06:02,880 --> 00:06:05,920 how to write. I hate writing, by the way. 77 00:06:05,920 --> 00:06:10,600 But when you figure out how to write something really cohesively, that's really impressive. 78 00:06:10,600 --> 00:06:14,800 And I just don't know how a prompt is going to lead to that. 79 00:06:14,800 --> 00:06:16,680 As a writer, you hate writing? I do. 80 00:06:20,920 --> 00:06:26,080 All right, let me look at my next few questions here. OK, so you kind of touched on it. 81 00:06:26,080 --> 00:06:29,200 But you said that like, there's always 82 00:06:29,200 --> 00:06:34,600 like the idea of that AI is going to take over jobs. So you don't believe in that, right? 83 00:06:34,600 --> 00:06:40,320 It's like, I mean, you could say any sort of technology 84 00:06:40,320 --> 00:06:44,280 takes over jobs. But in some ways, the jobs shift, perhaps. 85 00:06:44,280 --> 00:06:49,760 And so like, I don't know, like you would have trying to think of an example. 86 00:06:49,760 --> 00:06:54,320 Like you could have a really specific job for like a really menial task. 87 00:06:54,320 --> 00:06:57,400 And like, and then they get a robot to do that. 88 00:06:57,400 --> 00:07:01,440 I think like, so I'm interested in cars. So in the car industry, like they tried, 89 00:07:01,440 --> 00:07:07,120 there was an attempt to roboticize the whole production 90 00:07:07,120 --> 00:07:11,600 process in the 80s. General Motors tried it, and it was a massive failure. 91 00:07:11,600 --> 00:07:15,640 And like, I think there are certain tasks that like are really great where somebody 92 00:07:15,640 --> 00:07:19,480 could get out of a job. So like, I don't know, like welding, you know, 93 00:07:19,480 --> 00:07:23,480 stamping and welding, the like metal panels of a car. 94 00:07:23,480 --> 00:07:29,360 You know, instead of having someone like manually doing that, you have the system because every piece is exactly the same. 95 00:07:29,360 --> 00:07:32,720 Smush and bush and do the thing. And it's like, OK, so the person who 96 00:07:32,720 --> 00:07:37,400 had to do that manual menial task, I guess it did replace their job. 97 00:07:37,440 --> 00:07:41,880 But like, they can do something else. I think when we get up to this weird, like, 98 00:07:41,880 --> 00:07:45,440 broad creative space, it's puzzling to me 99 00:07:45,440 --> 00:07:49,240 that you would say, oh, this tool is going 100 00:07:49,240 --> 00:07:55,680 to take over a creative job instead of like making the creative job easier or allowing the creative job 101 00:07:55,680 --> 00:07:59,760 to be the boundaries to be pushed or something like that. Those are two like very different things. 102 00:07:59,760 --> 00:08:03,080 And I just think it's more the last one. So I just want to go. Do you need ice? You can get ice if you want. 103 00:08:03,080 --> 00:08:07,120 That's good, that's good. OK, so this is a bad idea. 104 00:08:07,120 --> 00:08:11,200 I don't have any ice in my water, so it's a possibility. 105 00:08:11,200 --> 00:08:16,480 Yeah, so it's probably more like, oh, maybe it'll push the boundaries of what the job looks like 106 00:08:16,480 --> 00:08:19,600 or maybe how many people are involved in it. 107 00:08:19,600 --> 00:08:25,520 Maybe, perhaps. Yeah, OK, I guess that's true. But it's not like a one-to-one replacement. 108 00:08:25,520 --> 00:08:29,200 But I guess what people do shifts all the time anyway, right? 109 00:08:29,200 --> 00:08:32,360 Exactly, exactly. All right, so and you kind of dabble on it, 110 00:08:32,360 --> 00:08:37,360 but you've used AI. How do you feel about it? 111 00:08:37,360 --> 00:08:41,480 You said you were OK about it, weird about it, or? 112 00:08:41,480 --> 00:08:45,680 Oh, I was like, oh, this is pretty neat. And I tried some image prompts. 113 00:08:45,680 --> 00:08:50,960 And I was like, oh, and weirdly, I thought the broader it was, the better it was, 114 00:08:50,960 --> 00:08:58,640 which I thought was interesting. And you can sort of see the years of going through image 115 00:08:58,640 --> 00:09:03,880 search or scrolling through Pinterest or whatever. You can sort of see how it all averages out 116 00:09:03,880 --> 00:09:10,360 and how it starts to be its common thing. So I was like, oh, OK, this is like a weird kind of take 117 00:09:10,360 --> 00:09:14,160 on all these pictures that I could picture having seen 118 00:09:14,160 --> 00:09:19,120 or whatever, right? So I don't know. So in that case, it's like, that's neat. 119 00:09:19,120 --> 00:09:22,280 But also, it has no sense of the physical world. 120 00:09:22,280 --> 00:09:26,760 It has no understanding of anything. 121 00:09:26,760 --> 00:09:30,160 It's literally just like, I know that this pixel is most 122 00:09:30,160 --> 00:09:33,320 likely to be next to this pixel when these pixels clump 123 00:09:33,760 --> 00:09:38,720 together like that. And I mean, I'm probably reducing it. I'm sure some AI people are going to be so mad, and I don't care. 124 00:09:38,720 --> 00:09:42,840 But it doesn't know. 125 00:09:42,840 --> 00:09:46,280 Have you seen the AI-generated commercials? 126 00:09:46,280 --> 00:09:50,760 Yeah, I've seen a lot. They're like, whoa. Some of them are really like, some of them are like, cool, 127 00:09:50,760 --> 00:09:56,400 but you can tell that it's very AI. Well, I mean, when you get to motion, 128 00:09:56,400 --> 00:10:00,200 then even the animation, you're replicating 129 00:10:00,200 --> 00:10:04,760 the physical reality, right? So animators in Disney in the past 130 00:10:04,760 --> 00:10:08,040 would study how a bird flies. And then they would draw that out. 131 00:10:08,040 --> 00:10:11,120 And it was an acknowledgement of how something actually 132 00:10:11,120 --> 00:10:15,080 physically happens. And then you watch this. There's this really funny beer commercial. 133 00:10:15,080 --> 00:10:20,760 And no one's drinking the beer. They're holding the beer bottle, and it's near their mouth. 134 00:10:20,760 --> 00:10:24,120 And then the person's sucking on. 135 00:10:24,120 --> 00:10:27,120 But they're making a sucking face. 136 00:10:27,120 --> 00:10:30,120 And it's like, there's no liquid. There's nothing. 137 00:10:30,560 --> 00:10:34,080 It's such an indicator of, oh, these things just 138 00:10:34,080 --> 00:10:39,040 don't get the physicals. And so what are you going to do then? 139 00:10:39,040 --> 00:10:44,240 Are you going to now create an AI that gets the laws of physics calculated and now has 140 00:10:44,240 --> 00:10:48,560 to figure out how to render that? It's just going to be more and more complicated. 141 00:10:48,560 --> 00:10:52,600 OK. So then as a tech-slash-creator company that we are, 142 00:10:52,600 --> 00:10:55,640 do you think that we should be using AI in any capacity? 143 00:10:55,640 --> 00:10:59,160 Or? 144 00:10:59,160 --> 00:11:03,120 I mean, again, from what little I know of what's out there, 145 00:11:03,120 --> 00:11:07,880 I'm sure there might be some really basic things where 146 00:11:07,880 --> 00:11:12,360 it could be beneficial. Like again, like I said, the gender to fill, 147 00:11:12,360 --> 00:11:15,920 if you want to animate a photo in our space. 148 00:11:15,920 --> 00:11:19,600 Sorry, can we start again? So like, start again, yeah. 149 00:11:19,600 --> 00:11:23,080 I'll start from the top. Yeah, yeah. Oh, yeah, OK. This is a bad picture. 150 00:11:23,080 --> 00:11:32,560 I'm so sorry. Don't worry about it. So in the case of here, using the tools really broadly, 151 00:11:32,560 --> 00:11:38,160 saying chat GPT will replace a writer or that is a bit rough. 152 00:11:38,160 --> 00:11:42,280 Maybe getting a good background image for a thumbnail 153 00:11:42,280 --> 00:11:46,640 with mid-journey might work. I could see the gender to fill being really great 154 00:11:46,640 --> 00:11:49,880 if we wanted to animate a photo and give it 155 00:11:49,880 --> 00:11:56,760 this parallax effect. I don't know if I should have stopped because it's just sounds. 156 00:11:56,760 --> 00:11:59,920 They're just backgrounds. But yeah, you get this parallax effect. 157 00:11:59,920 --> 00:12:03,160 If you get the parallax effect, then you could have this really cool animation. 158 00:12:03,160 --> 00:12:09,040 You fill it with the gender to fill. That sounds great. So again, really specific use cases 159 00:12:09,040 --> 00:12:14,280 where it's going to be really amazing. But in terms of broad strokes, no. 160 00:12:14,280 --> 00:12:20,600 It's going to help just like that tiny little step, like making one vision you have a bit easier 161 00:12:21,160 --> 00:12:25,320 to execute or making it better. That sounds great. 162 00:12:25,320 --> 00:12:29,200 So basically, we use it as a starting point, but then it won't be some new use for it. 163 00:12:29,200 --> 00:12:33,480 We should use it as a starting point, but we shouldn't use it for the final product. 164 00:12:33,480 --> 00:12:39,920 As a tool. We should be using it as a tool. Like you'd use a computer as a tool or a camera as a tool. 165 00:12:39,920 --> 00:12:46,800 That's what it's supposed to be, and that's what it is. And thinking of it as anything but that is annoying. 166 00:12:46,800 --> 00:12:50,320 Yeah. I think what everyone talked to, it's kind of like it is a tool, 167 00:12:50,320 --> 00:12:54,080 but it shouldn't be something we really rely on, basically. 168 00:12:54,080 --> 00:12:58,000 Yeah, no. No. 169 00:12:58,000 --> 00:13:01,720 What's his name? Dax Flame has been trying to do. 170 00:13:01,720 --> 00:13:08,880 Have you ever heard of him? He's a YouTuber who's been using AI to guide his videos along. 171 00:13:08,880 --> 00:13:13,000 And sometimes I'm like, man, you have great ideas. 172 00:13:13,000 --> 00:13:16,000 You just need to be confident in yourself. 173 00:13:16,000 --> 00:13:19,000 Just do that. Yeah. Yeah. 174 00:13:19,000 --> 00:13:22,840 All right, we're going to wrap up here quickly. But is there anything that we haven't mentioned 175 00:13:22,840 --> 00:13:28,720 that you want to discuss? No, I'm so glad to get this off my chest. 176 00:13:28,720 --> 00:13:32,760 All right, well, thank you. Or saying goodbye to the float planers now. 177 00:13:32,760 --> 00:13:35,760 Goodbye float planers. Yeah, that's the name I've coined now. 178 00:13:35,760 --> 00:13:38,760 I don't know if it's official. Is it one video or just each separate? 179 00:13:38,760 --> 00:13:42,960 It's going to be like 20 uncuts. And then I got cut down to like a five minute video. 180 00:13:42,960 --> 00:13:45,000 Oh yeah, OK.