Wow. You must have some pent-up Apple thoughts in that brain of yours.
What makes you say that? You haven't had an outlet. You've been stuck inside.
I've been stuck inside for almost two and a half, three months.
Physically and spiritually.
And mentally. Yes. Other ways.
I got into a motorcycle accident. Jonathan Horst.
In March, I broke my shoulder, right in the shoulder, had to get surgery.
That's wild. So a screw drilled into my shoulder.
Geez. And then I had to recover.
Did you do a whole breakdown of every single thing wrong with your body in the Mac Address video?
I summarized it. I did a whole breakdown in a Twitter thread.
And I kind of summarized it pretty well. We grabbed the skeleton for the Mac Address video and I pointed at the places where...
You should do a flow plane exclusive.
Just kind of like a body tour of the new mods.
It's like a small little... Yeah.
There's X-ray photos in that video too.
That's crazy. Yeah. It's small stuff and things are healing.
It just takes a while. But they cut to cut my shoulder open to fix it.
Oh my gosh. I had to basically wait for my shoulder to build itself back up.
My rotation. This rotation is still almost there.
But now I can do things. So if people want to get all of the grizzly details...
What's the latest Mac Address video? Thread at the beginning.
Go to your Twitter thread. And then stay for the rest. Yeah.
Because you did do some recent Apple videos.
I just know it's... That was the video.
I finished... Well I did the WWC video.
But I finished the latest videos when I started on Before the Accident.
Which was on the Vision Pro. Yeah. You just put out your vision.
But there were some new things to kind of update it with which you did.
I feel like. I watched it.
I didn't know. There's not really much new.
Didn't you have the 3D photo viewing thing?
Yeah. I didn't. But I haven't tried a Vision OS.
I haven't tried any of the Betas. Because I'm too scared.
They're Betas. And you're an Alpha.
That's right. Ride in motorcycles. No one can stop you.
And you're still going to ride. Yeah. I got a new bike.
And I just got a service today.
So we're getting close to back of the road.
But I have less than a month to do my road test before I have to start the whole process.
Again, if I don't pass it. So we'll see how things go.
It'll be an exciting. And the next accident you get into has to be even more intense or otherwise.
No. No. Please no.
Well. I'm like mad about how intense the accident injury was considering how careful I am.
And how not fast I was going. Just like.
It's like. What? When you care.
And all the gear I was wearing. Ruin?
No. Well the helmet's rare. No.
The helmet was ruined. Obviously. Because you can only use it once.
But I got the leather suit. I got that fixed.
You're more badass than I'll ever be.
Listen. I rode twice. So we're not.
But still. The idea. I don't think I'll ever get on a motorcycle.
No. I just don't want to. I don't want to do it.
Fair. Because. Okay.
Wait. We may or may not include this part. Sure.
But do you remember. I feel like a couple weeks before you got in your accident.
Uh huh. I had a conversation with you.
Where I specifically said to you.
You got a motorcycle? Are you crazy? Do you want to get an accident?
I said that. It was rude of me to say that.
What? No. But.
What did I say? I probably said. You were just kind of like.
You know. Hopefully not. Yolo.
You know. Like I think you were like. I want to do it.
Be safe. Well. I brought up some like fake statistic that wasn't actually accurate about how motorcycle
people get in more accidents. But it's not actually that they get in more accidents.
That the accidents they get in are more severe.
I think. Well. Yeah.
I mean I do think. There's like a common thing where it's like. It's not if.
But when. But I guess it's the same with cars. So it might be the similar in terms of that.
And like. Yeah. The risks are higher because like if something goes wrong.
Like you're flying wherever. Right. Um.
Or if you hit a car or a car hits you. This was just a single vehicle accident was just me being just being fucked off the bike.
But. You're flying in the accident. And then you're flying at the hospital and they give you morphine.
Yeah. Stupid. Yeah.
No. They give me ketamine for one surgery. Hell yeah.
And I'm like they're like you're going to have a nice high. And I'm like okay. And then.
Where do I. And I didn't know where. I didn't know what nice thing to think about.
And then all of a sudden I was like I wonder where I'm going to go. And then I ended up in the like holes of the palace in dune.
And I was like oh that's cool. That's awesome. And then I was like telling them as I'm coming to I can hear them talking and like telling
them like I'm in dune. And then I also.
They're like I also shouted whatever man.
No they were very busy yet. And then I shouted no they started they shouted lose it all guy.
I also shouted what did I do to myself.
Which is an interesting thing. But we don't include that either.
But anyway. Yeah. Muadib would never say.
I mean. I remember saying it and thinking like yeah that's true.
What a true thought. Okay.
You know. Let's get to Apple though. It's been a while.
So much has happened. The most recent thing that has happened which I feel like we should start with for the sake
of the algorithm is the RCS support.
Apple just at they announced it at WWDC.
Barely. Barely. I missed it.
If they announced so many things. I literally wrote in my notes.
Where's RCS. And then someone's like oh no it's in the bento box.
And I was like what they like and then apparently they mentioned it.
That's the bento box. They show at the end they're like and those that's iOS.
Oh right. And they show all the features. Yeah.
The thing comes in. Yeah. So.
That's so annoying when they have stuff in there that I was like huh what. I think it was also mentioned by the executive in the presentation too.
But I must have like my attention was for one second not on the video.
And you missed the one. Yeah. But they really did not want to talk about it.
It's so hard to keep up with all that stuff.
But regardless they rolled it out. Yeah. And we're filming this on Thursday June 27th.
This is going to come out on Monday.
And they just rolled it out in the past day or two.
And you know one thing that I people were talking about is the fact that some of the
headlines say the green bubble nightmare is over.
But of course the green bubbles are still there. Yeah.
It's it's it's. I snazzy Labs tweeted some screenshots of him trying you know I haven't tried it myself
because I'm terrified of betas.
But it's really funny to look at because it's like you have the green bubbles and then there's
a read receipt underneath. And like the oh god what are they called now.
The words the tap backs. There's tap backs with the emojis.
Yeah. It supports tap backs and reader seats. And so it just does.
Oh wow. It looks like I was trying to look up what the actual support looks like.
I believe you. And in the screenshot you can see the tap back working.
So I imagine it includes that the pictures are going to be high quality.
Honestly pretty excited. High quality media is the biggest thing that is the biggest exciting thing for me.
I hate this. I like I'll message stuff to my parents or my parents will message stuff to me.
My whole family is well one of my brothers is on Android and the rest of my family is
all iPhone. And. Do you get the bad quality or do they get the bad quality.
Really. Everybody suffers because of Apple's hubris.
Not even hubris. What is the quality of the photo.
Nonsense. It like you can you can you can even tell from the small preview that it's like pixelated
and I just like it's funny people talk about it and I know that the spec isn't great.
It looks like the bit rate is like way too low.
So it's not that it's like for video specifically. It's for videos and photos.
But now with RCS I mean so it's just in the beta so it's not rolling out to every iPhone
right now. Yeah. But it will in the fall.
Yeah. That's great. And so I mean it took so long but we're finally here and it's one of those things like one
broad thing that I want to talk to you about. Yeah.
In terms of Apple and and recent changes that they've made is that Apple especially when
it comes to the iOS and iPad OS ecosystems they're they're kind of being forced and they're
fighting it every step of the way but they are being forced to become a lot less Apple
like. Like oh interesting because take RCS support.
Yeah. This is something that they would never add.
They ignored Google's yeah very very very public campaigns to get them to add it.
Yeah. It's been a thousand years and years and now the only reason that they're adding it correct
me if I'm wrong is because of the EU.
It's China actually being like it's China fascism light and just China continue China.
Well I don't know the specifics about the fascism by the way.
From what I heard it was actually China mandating RCS not the EU.
Okay. What do you mean China had some sort of thing where they want now all the phone makers to
support RCS. Was that before or after the EU.
It was a little bit before because they had announced that they're going to add RCS a
while back. Well I'll take your word for it but regardless I think that the overall trend in like this
is happening in China. I think Japan has had some pretty good strong regulation Korea as well regarding the app
stores at least. Well they're working on well Japan just announced something just recently.
Yeah. The EU's been working on something. It is.
Things are getting kicked away at I think the US will get there eventually yeah.
We'll get there after we start you know finish making stupid laws then we might.
Oh no. It's going to get. We're not going to get into C11 right now but it.
It's old. We have C59 now. It is old but I feel like recently I've heard that it might just like die because there's
going to be a regime change anyways. That's not here.
Look at this smile on his face. That's not Apple.
That's not Apple. Listen so how do you feel about this as an Apple person.
Wow. Do you feel like something is being taken away.
I know. Okay so. Even though their features being.
Let me tell you something. Along with Apple one thing I'm interested in is antitrust.
Yes. And the anti-monopoly movement.
And so I'm like this is pretty good actually.
It's pretty good. Interesting to see. It's very interesting to see kind of governments in the regulatory structure kind of wake up
and be like do we want is this good is this the way we want things to be.
They're doing it in weird ways and everyone's kind of doing it in a different way and it's
going to be interesting to see I guess which way prevails.
But like the thing is Apple's app store probably was always destined to be chipped away at
because it just got so controlling. And like it was sort of the strange nature of when the iPhone came out.
There was no app store because they didn't want to have any apps and like I watched actually
the other day I watched like the presentation where Steve was like this is how apps would
work. Web apps would work on it. It was like a website with like app buttons that look like it's just like crazy.
It was just still on a website. And then the next year they added the app store.
Sometimes I wonder if it was always part of the plan and they just they needed to like
get it this way. But it was like specifically they had to control what apps were on that platform and they kind
of had the opportunity to and the regulatory environment wasn't really paying attention
to antitrust and any of that stuff at all at that point.
So they just they just did it and now when everyone's like oh that sounds great.
I can and it's I can understand the initial app store rollout being like exciting.
Yeah it was because web apps were not as good as these these like you want actual applications
to run on your little computer.
And I think that the the kind of insulated app store model was copied by by not just Google
I mean like they're you know the BlackBerry ecosystem existed at time as well.
There were other. Yeah I'm trying to remember. It really just transformed into completely just Android and iPhone but you'd shook out
that way. Yeah. Yeah and and the Play Store itself you know you can you can sideload apps on Android.
But you know you see Epic attacking Google as well.
Yeah and Google lost that last year. I think that the closed you know insular app store model is opening up and becoming less
and less sensible as phones become more and more capable.
Yeah. Oh yeah. Yeah absolutely.
So now people are just like okay this used to be a phone. Now it's just another computer.
Yeah. This is a big computer. That's exactly what's happening.
Right. It's the recognition of that precisely.
And I think that you have people like Epic Games CEO Tim Sweeney who comes in here and
is like hey it's obviously a computer it was always a computer I don't know why anyone
didn't treat it like a computer and it's like ridiculous that you can't like treat it just
like your desktop PC and sideload whatever you want and modify it and do whatever you
want. And so he's been attacking both Apple and Google.
Yeah. And it's been fascinating to see I did a tech longer on the Apple on the Apple versus Epic.
Yeah. Which Epic. Lost.
Sort of. Yeah. Well if we want to get into that.
But they won against Google and we can talk about that after but that to me is fascinating
that they just won against Google and Google now is in a position of having to like change
stuff. It was a different trial. I think Google was more blatant.
The judge the judge was also not as deferential to Google the judge and it was a jury trial
and the judge literally said to the jury because there was evidence coming out that Google
had like deleted messages and emails and like tried to hide things behind privilege.
So the judge large of the jury like just assume any documentation we don't have makes Google
look bad. He told the jury that. Yeah.
Exactly. So they definitely. Fair enough.
You know. They definitely lost. If you deleted it.
Why did you delete it? Yeah. Yeah.
Yeah. Yeah. What was the reason.
Yeah. With the Apple versus Epic lawsuit the one thing there was the the judge ordered that
Apple is permanently restrained from prohibiting developers from including in their apps buttons
and external links to say hey you can buy this on our website.
Right. This is the practice known as steering. Yeah.
And so it was said that Apple has anti-steering mechanisms that they have now been well in
various they're forced to open it up. They were forced to open up and then they most Apple way the most malicious compliance
way. So they're like okay well you know yours you would be paying us 30 percent if you you
know used our payment system. So it's a 27 percent commission if you use these external links and that's if the purchase
is made within seven days. Yeah. Of the of the thing.
So there's malicious compliance there and the judge is happy.
I would love to do a whole breakdown. I know I'm sorry but like it happened a while ago and we did a breakdown on Tech LinkedIn
I'm sure. Okay. On Mac addresses.
Anyway there is an update to that but the TLDR is that. Well Epic complained.
Yeah. And they just had some hearings in May. I actually tuned in to a couple of them because I was really curious about it and the judge
is not happy and the judge was literally like okay. So I did.
I did. I did. She's like how did you come up with the 27 percent commission rates.
They're like well the pricing commission does that. She's like do you have any documentation for that.
I think so and she's like please submit the documentation and Apple's like here you go
and she's like no I need more and it's escalated that she now she referred the case to another
judge just to deal with the documentation discovery again.
I love I love this whole like tech giants being brought in to lawsuits like for antitrust
thing and like people in government and in positions of power being like hold on wait
so you're doing because they're not paying attention. Yeah.
This is like a lot of like non very not very technically savvy people.
Yeah. They're getting better. They're bringing in experts to tell them about the stuff but like they're having these reactions
where they're like hold on a second. You don't let anyone do this.
Yeah. It seems like they should do it. They should be able to do it.
They're like whoa. Or like how did you come up with this number. They're like we don't know.
It's like oh okay. And like look she's also asking like how many developers are like adopting it and they're
like 50. That's a huge amount. Yeah.
How much profit are you making from your app store and from your services overall.
Well we don't even know if it's profitable. We think it might be but yeah.
I don't know. A lot of suggestions.
That's what that's how we were literally dealing with it. So anyway it's really interesting.
We'll see how that goes but the it's clear that at least it's getting chipped away.
So this is this is all to do with with American legislation.
I know. Yeah. Well yeah.
In the EU they just got charged for because they they open they the EU said you have to
do you have to let you know you have to allow developers to steer people to their websites
with with buttons in the app. And you know you got to let other app stores in.
Right. That's the whole thing. But just recently the the charges that they laid.
Yeah. The steering ones. This week.
Yeah. Okay. You let developers have buttons in your in their apps but they're not allowed to say
anything about. Or on the scare screen. Yeah.
Yeah. They're like the developers basically saying I made this joke in tech like the developers
are basically just saying like here's a button to our website.
And the users are like I think I saw a great job there's a good job putting a button there
but like the developers can't say we have a sale on things.
You can get a cheaper rate on our website. They just have they're only allowed to say here's a button goes on one example.
I think I was probably a man where the the example like Apple showed is like it's just
a link to their home page but it's on the top of the app and it's not even like they're
not even allowed to put it in a button looking button right to look like a just w dot com
and then like a little like this is a link out icon.
Yeah. It's it's very it's it's bare bones.
So the EU the EU is an interesting case because everyone the everyone I've been hearing people
say like oh you know the DMA is not very well written and like you know how are they going
to enforce this and it seems like the way the EU is doing it is they're like this is
what we want you to do and we're going to see how you do that and if we don't like it
you're going to let you know and so it's there's like a bit of vagary there but then man it's
so convoluted. Yeah. There's lots of things we can say about how the EU is approaching the regulation I mean
like it kind of it gets into sort of political ideas about whether you think that these tech
giants should be regulated and all that stuff but I will say about the EU that generally
when we record report on this stuff on tech link to be like cheer that the EU is forcing
a tech giant to do something that they don't want to do right because the reason why they're
not doing it they don't want to do it is because they're doing it and here maximize the profits
and all that stuff they don't care about the user experience until users complain like
you know to such a degree but it's one thing that came out recently about the EU they're
also planning this chat control I mean they're not planning they have proposed members of
the European Union government have proposed this legislation to get back to her for yeah
that basically you know they're saying that we want to scan all messages whether they're
encrypted or not for you know legal images you know I think generally most people seem
to be against that in the tech sphere and the even more heinous part is that they had
baked in a exception for government officials and for law enforcement and stuff their phones
don't have to be scanned yeah like oh I mean in that case if we want to talk about that in
that case there's a difference between say but it was I should say the proposals were
rejected so so that is not like yeah moving forward at this point yeah they're probably
gonna bring it back at some point good well there's a difference between something like
that and sit and then this DMA where we're in like what the government was with the with the EU
was proposing with the with the chat messaging is like access to personal personal messages
and you could put a you could put you could say like well a message I send to you and you send
to me individually like that doesn't really have that much spreadability it's like the
issues when you can like send mass messages out that's like the most concerning right so
it's like what's the level of like what we're dealing with and then in the case of something
like the DMA we're dealing with a company that has that is like spreading its power over over
millions of people right right then maybe we should deal with that like it's like kind of
this importance of like impact yeah and so well and Apple doesn't have that much impact as much
impact in the UA in the EU as they do in the US true the interesting thing about all this
EU regulation stuff is hearing Europeans say that like the way those are like I'm as I message
doesn't allow parity of features between iPhone users and Android users oh my gosh regulate
them like put them in jail and the EU users are like but they you wouldn't use it they all use
WhatsApp even the iPhone users in the DMA isn't just targeting Apple like it's not it's not the
gatekeeper as well I think when the rhetoric is all like anti-Apple kind of like who cares if
you're a gatekeeper you're you're locking the gates do it again and look at the camera if you're a
gatekeeper you're locking the gate we're gonna get you and so we don't think you deserve the key
it's too much eye contact with this undemocratic for them to have the keys I agree but do you
mr. Apple guy you seem to be a little bit a little bit too I'm gonna say this a little bit too
reasonable let me tell you something let me tell you a little bit more and hinge I think I've just
been using this iPad is that the new one yeah as my sole computer I haven't seen it for so thin
the past couple of weeks and I calm down it's so annoying and I just think about like how the
App Store model is this the official Apple thing yeah wow we're getting it this is the new M4 iPad
with the OLED screen I love how stiff that is it's a very well made but that keyboard's a
dangerous thing because you expect it to work like a PC watch it for the pencil you can Apple's
really gone downhill no no no look at this that's good because it least didn't fall off the fit and
finish missing I miss reviewing I miss reviewing iPads do you I should I should every time I think
about like if I can if I can review another iPad I'm like no I don't there's just no time oh I see
GameLinked is my child now iPads used to be anyways go ahead you've been using this device would
probably be way more capable and way better without the App Store exclusivity model it is insane to
me that they still haven't like opened up iPad OS well they are but even just the distribution of
the I mean the way they've you know they've locked down the operating system but even just the
distribution I feel like would allow for just more business you know more opportunities for you
know app developers to figure out what apps to make and how to monetize them because like for
instance a big a nuisance with the App Store is like developers can't even do free trials it's
like not allowed which is like a thing that was is like an age old thing in software distribution
you know in the 90s and early 2000s on PCs and Macs but no no so they can't even do that and then
on top of all the other rules that they have to abide by and so you think about the even the
subscription you know the software as a service nightmare we're all living in like I have a I'm
pretty confident that that is also you know contributed to by just the constraint App Store
model and other course yeah so this could be a way better device without that and even like the
vision pro is this not was this not my argument when we last talked about iPads I was always made
this argument wasn't I don't want to talk about his touch screens wasn't I don't think that it
should just be a computer and you're like no it's just a special special iPad it's a special child
that needs to be protected no that argument was whether a touchscreen should be on a Mac
and I said no and whether macOS should be on an iPad I'm still gonna probably say no to though
this keyboard because though this keyboard thing is really confusing but because an iPad is a touch
device but like what would if if app distribution wasn't so constrained by Apple's power that they
would hold over the platform like what are we missing out on in terms of like apps and possibilities
and then I think about the same thing with the vision pro it's basically under the same sort of
regime like what what's gonna well who's gonna make it who wants to make an app for that device
let's talk about yeah let's talk about the vision pro for a second we're flying through topics
wow yeah I haven't even tried it yet you have it no I just I'm too I'm so busy now I'll bring it
over I'm so sorry yeah please you only need like half an hour I never I never tried it because
you had a motorcycle accident so I blame I blame you yeah I I did have it actually yeah
but then you picked somebody picked it up oh okay so somebody picked it up and was brought back to
the office because Linus did a video yeah they did yeah yeah but I still never got to try it but
regardless on my desk so I'll bring it over it seemed like the vision pro launched at a really
weird time because too early there was like you know three of the of the biggest tech buzzwords
in the past few years have been crypto metaverse and AI and they've kind of like waxed and waned
as the others have like uh you know they always done that come into influencer or and and went away
and I feel like the vision pro launched right as uh metaverse VR hype was like at its lowest and
the only reason that people started talking about it a little bit more like again this year
was because of the vision pro yeah so it was like it was so it was so strange I mean like
meta has you know put out the the quest and the quest two and the quest three
and so like that's but that always always kind of just spoke to the the the niche that's into it
whereas the vision pro kind of like broke out it had a chance to break out into the wider
apple audience and get them into VR now because they were just like I feel like a lot of apple
people saw the quest headsets or whatever and they were just kind of like okay whatever lol and then
the vision pro came out they're like now this is a VR headset this is how it's supposed to be
but then it fell flat in his face and everyone thinks it's a joke now $3,500 are you joking
well I mean I think even when it was announced we were all like okay okay like but I I mean when I
was trying to figure out what the vision pro was going to be before it was announced turned out
there was this there's this idea of like spatial computing and not having everything confined to
a screen which actually seems pretty great I've always loved the idea yeah and so when apple
focused on that I said well that's kind of what we figured out sounds like a great idea now in execution
uh it's there's nothing to do because it's iPad apps or vision props which are basically iPad apps
just with cool floating things yeah and then um and then like a Mac screen extension and actually
the the despite how amazing the screen is it's still not like retina quality for like a Mac screen
so you're still gonna have like fuzzy text and that's why the Windows for vision apps are so big
and then the field of view is really narrow and so like you literally can look at like one
you can look at like one big window in your field of view at a time and so you're kind of it's
not really what you would hope it to be like it's the the Windows are too big you can't so you
like when I like tried this thing when I was reviewing it where like I was like okay I'm gonna have my Mac screen and I'll have like teams here and my Twitter window and I'll have another
app yeah and it's like all of a sudden the Windows are so big they're like literally like all around
you like this is five Windows what do you think that apple would need to do like they're it uh we
know that they have well we don't know this but the latest leaks uh from mark gurman are that they
are kind of like they're gonna lower in model yeah put a narrower field of view right but
you know you gotta it's gotta be a downgrade in some ways if it's gonna be cheaper
like do you think that this is do you think that they should have doubled down and gone with
you know what we're just gonna keep the hardcore users who are still into it and like just make
it better it's just hard it's hard to make a headset like because the same thing the same
thing might just happen I feel like I feel like VR was a success among tech enthusiasts
in so far as it like appealed to non-apple tinkerer type people yeah and I know there are a lot of
apple centric tinkerer type people but and they were probably playing with those other headsets
but I think that like the apple demographic is someone is is someone who expects there to be
a lot of polish fit and finish there is polish it's polish oh it's very polished it's very
polished but at the end of the day like you said in your video what are you supposed to use this for
like what is this thing for and no one really knows um so I mean couple that with the fact that
like there's some basic functionality that was missing like a netflix app and a youtube app
when they're not when they make in any app still probably because the app distribution is there
still no official youtube app no no in fact a vision os 2 the update is now that like if you
have a if you play have a video playback it can become its own window and do the thing right
there's there's a website there's third party youtube apps and there's third party yeah of
course but uh you know so there's no first pretty one I mean the first party youtube apps are
not very fun on ipad with a mouse yeah so um I just don't see what the incentive is right now
this is a nascent product in a nascent field that's kind of very niche and apple's trying to
treat it like the iphone in terms of app distribution this is the interesting thing about
this whole app distribution story is like apple's control of app distribution on the what they were
able to do that on the iphone because everybody wanted a phone everyone needs a phone everyone needs a phone it was a miniaturization of the computer it was like really handy it was the
future uh and it was really clear how that was going to be really cool and like the expectations
were in that high either because phone apps before that were like the closest type of apps you had
before that was like Windows ce and palm apps like if you could find those that was great and or
maybe blackberry right and so like it was it grew from something small yeah with the vision pro like
it's kind of already has to be baked for it to work because it's a kind of a big thing
if you think about it spatially um and to do that requires a lot of effort and apple wants to take
30 of that i don't yeah i think that i i can i can only see so like this might be good for apple
these these these anti-steering provisions might be good for their platforms what do you mean like
if they if apple can't now is like or if the dm the dma means that apple like the way the app store
works uh and app distribution works on the iphone doesn't work anymore in ipad though i
guess it's not a gatekeeper with vision os so they could still do that but anyway it's they can do
whatever they want and yeah within that metaverse well what do they call it they had vision verse
now i don't understand i i i remember there was a leak where it the uh there was there was some leak
about what apple wanted to call their virtual reality instead of metaverse they had something else
like a apple something maybe it's apple reality maybe that's already public and i just like
have um out of the loop there but anyways um yeah the vision pro i mean we'll see what happens
i feel like we don't have very much more time i want to talk about briefly let's just like rapid
lightning around through w w c dc stuff and apple intelligence okay biggest things do you remember
off the top you had biggest things from w w dc because everyone was like this was the best w
d i it's so annoying to say i don't repeat it dub dub just say that dub dub this was the biggest
dub dub of any dub ever i didn't feel like that um so you should fight with people on that i hit
that i agree with everyone likes is iphone mirroring that'll be really cool though funny enough apple
saying that we can't add iphone mirroring for eu customers because we don't know if it's gonna
violate my gosh yeah and apple intelligence and apple intelligence the other thing um we have
security concerns yeah so i might not be safe we're trying to keep you guys very rhetorical
we'll see uh if that persists once they've kind of actually got the future for other languages but
um i miss the app icon customization thing have you seen that you missed it no no it's a it's a
miss oh it's a you don't like it oh oh you're saying miss me with that i app icon dark mode it's
like dark mode icons and you can then customize the color palette for them and oh man yeah i i mean
i don't know like the way icons have looked since iOS 7 i think that most people even where i think
that most people thought those like custom icons just like with a blank uh with like a color applied
to all of them looks kind of ugly like Android has had that for a while and i don't know if anyone
uses it it just makes it things harder to find i don't know yeah absolutely yeah i don't know why
you have a problem but you can do it and i feel like that along with things like the window
snapping into quadrants tiles on macOS people love that there's a bunch of things that they
announced at w w dc that just were like hey people have been asking this for a long time here you go
features of Windows and Android for a long time and you know we're just gonna throw them in now
like what happened something happened at their brains broke in the past year you think so well
that like what this is so there's so many things where they've been like holding it i think that
like now is the time i think that maybe being forced into changing their core identity in so
many ways with with something you want us to be Android and Windows here you go yeah honestly
they're kind of like they're probably having a crisis of identity they're like that's we were the
company that didn't let anyone do anything and now they're making us let people do things
we're fine just let them do everything but they're gonna whine about it a lot they're gonna do it
but they're gonna whine about it they'll only whining about i mean they're ready they're they've
been whining the whole time uh yeah i don't know i don't know if they're necessarily whining i mean
if you want to say that the app icons look ugly that's them whining it's like they're intentionally
making like it's only dark mode for instance you can customize it i think yeah and then like okay
i just think it looks ugly no matter what you do if you have all of it not ugly
per se it could look beautiful but it's like what's the point of it looking kind of nice if you
can't find anything customizing their app icons with shortcuts a few years ago that was a bit of a
trend and like you could do custom icons already and they looked you could choose ones that looked
better yeah and that were designed by you know designers and yeah it's so well i don't that's
a that's a miss by moving being able to move the icons anywhere in the the screen is great uh
what else calculator on ipad oh yeah finally that's cool it actually looks really cool yeah i'm
curious how the notation thing would work that'd be great in school back in the day this is something
where i'm like i can't it's so dumb that apple hasn't had a calculator app on the ipad this whole
time but at the same time i i have a simultaneous feeling where i'm like fair enough because you
clearly were taking your time and you only wanted to put the calculator app on the ipad
like it i feel like at some point this was a okay fine here you go w w dc it was it really was but
they find they're like fine we'll put the calculator on the ipad but we'll make it the coolest
calculator yeah it was a cool yeah you can draw everyone would have flipped out just for a regular
calculator to be quite honest um i don't you mean i don't necessarily rehash too much about wc but it
isn't my kind of take on i've been a bit of an ai uh what's the word what's how's the negative
cynic yeah yeah you know my friend would always tell me about chat gpt look at this thing it does
and like writing stories for like uh another you know my another friend's kid like who's a toddler
and like oh wow you did that i feel like i've just always been like why yeah and then now we have
whole thing where like you know apple intelligence will summarize emails and then you can get it to
rewrite your own emails or like yeah and it's like what are we what are we doing basically
grammarly but i know when i was insecure about writing i thought grammarly would look was gonna
be great and then yes i never never tried out i don't think we're not the target audience because
we we are writers and i feel like i know but i there was a time where i was very insecure about
writing and i just got better at it and now i can't i couldn't imagine i still hate writing
actually that's the worst part of the job the solution for people is not to use is to keep
writing just keep writing just get good skill issue honestly well how can you get good at writing
if you don't write well right grammarly could help you or or these this is not sponsored by
grammarly but apple intelligence any of these ai powered summary tools the idea is that they
like people don't know the rules and so they'll write stuff and then that will tell them and
maybe they don't need it forever but for a while it'll help them kind of like get used to like oh
or it's just a crutch and they kind of offload their brain processing to that and they never
actually learn what the rules are because they know that grammarly is gonna or whatever is going
to fix it apple the apple apple yeah the the the private cloud compute the sound is happening
i hope i hope it makes siri better but it's only available on like the iphone 15 pro and then
m series devices and so to go back to your point about like being a cynic yeah i feel like i have
i feel like there i have more arguments for this i flip flop you flip flop because i am
i think that's so exhausting i think that when you look at ai tools primarily through like a
functional lens of like what can it do right now yeah yeah you're you're gonna be a cynic because
you're gonna be like i'm a writer i have tried to use chat gbt for various things yeah uh since it
came out december 2022 i've been playing with ai stuff the whole time yeah and i have yet to find
you know a way to actually incorporate it into my workflow at least the way that like i work because
we we just it just it wouldn't it's not useful to me in what i do yeah uh i've i've heard from
lots of people who find it very useful in in what they do but i think primarily not like writers
who's who where it's important to them that they are actually putting their own thoughts on to
pay yeah the people who i've seen it'd be useful for and be functionally you know valuable is to
non-writers who have to do writing tasks but they don't care about them and they don't really
care about the like the nuances of the output and stuff so they just science but i have two
complaints your answer you cannot be just be good just be better that's fair that's fair so one funny
thing is that same friend who i was talking about he was like describing someone uh i think a client
who was working with that work who would write these he was like this guy writes these very verbose
emails that i can't suss out and then he's then he today the other day is like i think he was using
chat he was using chat gpt it's funny it's like you can you can identify it now you can like look
at something and you're like that's just like offloading so if you if you're using chat gpt to
write this verbose email to someone now you're offloading work to someone to like interpret what
you mean yeah from this like huge expansion when i will say you could just email the prompt and i
feel like because we don't have uh anthropics models available in canada i don't know if you
can get them with a vpn for some reason i haven't tried that was anthropics so anthropic is was made
by people who left open ai they thought that open ai wasn't being serious enough about the safety
issue yeah so they went and made their own models claud the claud family and uh in in the past six
months or so claud's uh recent releases have kept up with gpt four so they're they most recently
released claud 3.5 sonnet which apparently you know all the benchmarks are broken they don't
actually really work but like according to claud's the anthropics own benchmarks they're like
it's on par with gpt four and i feel like you might change your mind about i'm coming off as like a
as a apologist right out ai apologist but i'm not as i said earlier um that's fine i'm flip-flopping
but i feel like the the the consensus is that claud's answers are i'll feel a lot more human
and a lot less uh formulaic unless you ask it to like summarize something and list uh you know
factors it'll just like give you pretty formulaic things but what i wanted i wanted to uh qualify
my own answer by saying there are times when i'm like okay i can see that the the use case from people
but most of the time right now yes it's useless i don't use it i don't know anyone personally
who regularly uses it however the thing that is always interesting to me about ai models
is the fact that they are based off of uh structurally like a neural network and that just
gets my mind going with all these questions of philosophy what is consciousness what how does
our brain how do our minds actually work no uh oh no what it's interesting what do we know
i will say this to bring it back to apple um you're right they they're kind of ai stuff is
features and they're tools they're really specific so like generative autofill in photoshop is really
great but like we had the clone tool the clone stamp tool and then we had the like healing
brush like it's just another step in that case right and then in the case of like we had spell
check and grammar check in the nineties i guess what apple is introducing with apple intelligence is
like spell check but like we can do the whole thing for you right so and then apple has their image
generator which oh they look terrible uh well and like anytime i see generate ai generated
you know works online i'm like oh it's just something off and so like i don't know mid journey
mid journey does below my mind sometimes sometimes but like one in a million but most of it is is
yeah the um so like it feels like in this case apple was like just kind of throwing a bone being
like look we're doing machine learning here and this is and we're gonna call it apple intelligence
for you now and like here's the next steps of where we're going and maybe they're like trying to maybe
they were actually kind of their hand was forced to show what they were working on ahead of time
absolutely they had to yeah and so and like and they kind of had to like fit it within what everyone
else is doing which is a little on apple like because they usually go their own to their own
horn and do their own thing and they do it well years later but that just shows like the power
the the the the economic power of this whole like but they have all the money i don't know why they
need to care ridiculous wave of well they have it's crazy they still have investors i know i know but
like you could just like yeah they dropped down they were they were this ai wave in the past two
years or so yeah has knocked apple out of the top spot they're not they were the most valuable
company microsoft got up there because of all the investment in in ai and then invidia got up there
and now the three of them are just kind of switching around every once in a while and apple
shot to the top again after they announced this what what's this little bubble popping yeah the
bubbles yeah i am i am eagerly awaiting exactly we just there was just a recent interesting paper
about researchers figured out a they they developed a mod they say it's pre it's pre-print
so who knows but they developed a model that does not need GPU's nearly as much they they
developed large language models that don't use matrix multiplication which is the thing that
GPU's do that makes them so good at but what are apples neural engine well that was one of the other
like to bring it back to apple again we're gonna end soon but uh to bring it back to apple again
the thing that was cool about their reveal of apple intelligence was the fact that they're running
most of this on device yeah they have their own their hardest to do that elan musk made a big
friggin deal about how you're going to be sending all your data to open ai or whatever but the vast
majority of the cases when you use apple intelligence on an iphone uh or a mac i guess or an ipad is um
uh is going to be using those local models and they've been gearing up for that i mean i remember
years i remember just a few years ago there was an update to iOS where they they had they
already were installing the neural engine on their chips kind of small little yeah on the
iphone's and so then they did an update to the photos app and they said like we can do the like
you know object recognition and face recognition on device and i was like that's pretty cool actually
that they're doing that whereas like google photos like you had to upload everything into their world
and they would do it for you and so i remember i remembered when that when they announced that
being like that's pretty cool that we can do that on device so like this is just the next step
where they're in a direction they're already going in and it's great they're doing that now
the thing is they're still if the device can't handle the load they're going to send it to their
servers um so there's a bit of a bit of a risk there um and as you know i guess it's hard because
the loads could get pretty heavy depending on what you're asking for so you to expect a little
phone ship to do it all uh is a bit big but i don't know it's just like it's i guess the thing
if i i'm really struggling with tech right now because it feels like everyone's shouting about
technologies and like these like abstract ideas and there's like no really like humanity of like
what are we doing and what do you need to do and like how can we do that well and it's like
sometimes there's like those simple things which apple historically has been really good at just
focusing on this is the new device and this is what you can do with it and this is how we made
it so wonderful to do that well honestly those are the days as much as i missed that as much as
i've given apple crap in the past for like releasing a feature that is functionally similar to
what other people have done before but they brand it their their own special way and it's the it's
the apple version yeah i've given them crap for that but i feel like it was it seeing them
incorporate ai in the way that they have is actually uh i like how they've done it yeah because
they showed an actual they showed an actual demo of someone using this and you know it's not a live
demo like they used to do it's probably still a lot of vaporware and they even said after saying that
oh iOS 18 is going to roll out this fall it's going to be that's where you're going to get the
apple intelligence and the new iphone's they there was a recent thing we're saying it's not
going to come till 2025 yeah delay delay but regardless the demo that they showed was someone
asking siri when is my mom's flight coming in yeah and because it had access to all of this
on device data that is encrypted and that only can be accessed by your stuff um it can it can
tell you that and i'm sure like google will have some similar feature whatever but the fact remains
as you said they're sending data to the servers that's the whole thing and i feel like apple has
the unique ability to take this weird ai stuff that has been scaring people
and exciting people and actually give it to their uh user base in a way that hopefully
is is smooths things out and keeps things you know relatively private and makes things actually
useful because apple does have that closed ecosystem of like all of your stuff is with us
i don't love that apple is like this closed ecosystem and like oh we're not allowing you
to do open things up but i think that we have these twin dragons right now of
privacy of uh of ai just like threatening to take people's jobs and vacuum up all the data on the
internet and fill the internet with ai generated slop and trick all of our parents on facebook
and then on the other hand we have the dragon of apple like being like oh we're gonna lock everything
down you're not allowed to do stuff but i feel like strangely the solution to dragon one might be
something like apple's approach where it's like you know you can use ai stuff but only in these very
limited ways that we tell you i wouldn't make the same comparison because i like why couldn't google
do on device like why can Android have an on device because their whole business model is
hovering up data exactly and apple does that as well but apple's business model apple's business
you don't have a search engine apple's closed ecosystem hmm is their business yes exactly
exactly okay but then that's true yeah but again with with apple's distribution apple can realize
the dream of the humane pin yeah but with app distribution then on i can like the difference
there is like app distribute like max have open app distribution they wouldn't ever have these problems
that they wouldn't like apple wouldn't get sued because of the way app distributions on a mac but
there's still a closed ecosystem right so the app distribution in that are kind of separate things
it's just about like when is the like power tip when is it tip over into being like okay it's a
little too much now you're controlling way too much yeah like i mean you know i'm not i'm not
saying we need to give all apple the power whatever obviously i think that the e you
should continue and and china and whoever should continue just yeah ripping them open um but
i just hope that they uh i hope that they've retained the part of their soul
that allows them to keep your data private encrypted on your device and give your private ai
access to that without ever having to phone home i i think that that is that's
that is honestly i think that is the future of ai yeah you know i i i agree with you that the
bubble is probably gonna pop pretty soon i don't know who knows that's the thing we don't know but
i think it has to pop it has to pop at some point because the exponential you know it's gonna deflate
in this really annoying kind of like it's either we didn't know it's like anyway you know what i mean
it's like it's either gonna pop or we're just gonna go straight straight line into cyberpunk
dystopia where everything is ai and and we're screwed at that point somebody compared it to
pollution yep i mean we're definitely polluting the internet yeah there's a lot of manually
turned out crap yeah you know eight years ago it's crazy all right let's wrap this up um overall
i think that uh it was great to catch up with you again jonathan how is it's good to be back
and good to catch up with you too i miss and our conversations i do as well yeah i i wish we could
always develop a philosophy and i go what i want to argue with you about ipads again at some point
so we'll have you back and that's great until then just uh you know keep keep on keep on repping
keep on repping tim cook and the boys and the girls i'll try and everybody at that one infinite
loop i don't know why i'm trying to end this like a like a adult easy listening radio but
i'm kind of leaning that way do you have we should find a song in apm and that was the white lotus
the great show good show yeah and this was a good show thanks for watching subscribe to TechLinked
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