1 00:00:00,000 --> 00:00:04,480 Have you ever done this? Recommended a product to someone? Only for them to come back and tell you 2 00:00:04,480 --> 00:00:08,440 the whole thing was a nightmare? It is the worst feeling. 3 00:00:08,440 --> 00:00:14,720 It's even worse when you recommended that same product to, I don't know, a few million other people. 4 00:00:14,720 --> 00:00:18,440 So when this email hit my inbox, I was freaking out. 5 00:00:18,440 --> 00:00:23,440 Not only does Buddy say he's got a broken laptop, which, I mean, that happens from time to time. 6 00:00:23,440 --> 00:00:27,320 DOA happens. But then he goes into his awful experience 7 00:00:27,320 --> 00:00:32,240 with the framework's customer support. Now, my first instinct was to run to my computer 8 00:00:32,240 --> 00:00:36,160 and send an email to the CEO demanding that he helped this customer. 9 00:00:36,160 --> 00:00:39,560 But then I thought, if one person is having this problem, 10 00:00:39,560 --> 00:00:44,320 there could be hundreds or even thousands. And if something's rotten over at framework, 11 00:00:44,320 --> 00:00:48,360 putting a band-aid on this one complaint isn't going to solve it. 12 00:00:48,360 --> 00:00:53,280 So I took matters into my own hands, or rather someone else's hands, 13 00:00:53,280 --> 00:00:57,800 deploying a crack team to go undercover and secret shop framework. 14 00:00:57,800 --> 00:01:01,600 And spoiler alert, things didn't get off to a perfect start 15 00:01:01,600 --> 00:01:07,880 with one of our two machines arriving with a factory defect, which I guess is good 16 00:01:07,880 --> 00:01:12,000 because it gives us an opportunity to put their customer service to the test. 17 00:01:12,000 --> 00:01:16,640 The stakes really couldn't be higher here. As some of you may remember from my investment disclosure, 18 00:01:16,640 --> 00:01:21,720 I said that if framework doesn't uphold the promises and commitments they made to me and our community, 19 00:01:21,720 --> 00:01:26,120 my breakup with them will be swift, absolute, and in public. 20 00:01:27,800 --> 00:01:38,120 Let's start this off by taking a closer look at the email 21 00:01:38,120 --> 00:01:43,560 that kicked off this whole investigation. After Seth received his DIY framework 13 22 00:01:43,560 --> 00:01:47,600 and installed his own RAM and SSD, he was having issues getting it to post. 23 00:01:47,600 --> 00:01:51,320 He reached out to support and was frustrated to say the least 24 00:01:51,320 --> 00:01:57,360 when it took seven days to receive a response that wasn't automated and adding insult to injury, 25 00:01:57,400 --> 00:02:01,400 they asked him to try troubleshooting steps that he already said he tried. 26 00:02:01,400 --> 00:02:05,000 First thought then, seven days is a really long time 27 00:02:05,000 --> 00:02:08,840 to sit there with a fancy new, not to mention expensive paperweight, 28 00:02:08,840 --> 00:02:12,080 but hopefully it's an outlier. 29 00:02:12,080 --> 00:02:16,880 To find out, we attempted to recreate his situation by ordering the exact same laptop 30 00:02:16,880 --> 00:02:22,640 opting to bring our own RAM and SSD. But since one laptop, it's not a very large sample size, 31 00:02:22,640 --> 00:02:28,960 we decided to double it, placing a separate order several months later for a prebuilt Framework 16. 32 00:02:28,960 --> 00:02:32,480 Fulfillment for both of them was what I would describe as solid. 33 00:02:32,480 --> 00:02:37,440 We ordered the DIY 13 way back in March, six days later, landed on our doorstep. 34 00:02:37,440 --> 00:02:43,360 Not bad, considering it came from the other side of the world. As for the Framework 16, same story, except in July, 35 00:02:43,360 --> 00:02:48,840 and it arrived on a different doorstep. We wanted to make sure that if we had to open support tickets 36 00:02:48,840 --> 00:02:54,080 for both machines, that they would not be coming from the same person or from the same address. 37 00:02:54,080 --> 00:02:58,000 Now we'll get to supporting a bit, but first, one of Framework's main attractions 38 00:02:58,000 --> 00:03:03,520 is that they provide resources that assist the user with repairs and the maintenance of their device. 39 00:03:03,520 --> 00:03:07,360 So, rather than just have me build the DIY edition, 40 00:03:07,360 --> 00:03:10,960 again, we recruited Natalie from our LTT Store team. 41 00:03:10,960 --> 00:03:15,600 She knows enough about tech to be interested in it, but hasn't spent literal days with her head 42 00:03:15,600 --> 00:03:20,400 inside a computer. Let's see how she did. All right, what is this? 43 00:03:20,400 --> 00:03:26,120 Cool, okay, oh wow, stickers. It's actually pretty enjoyable watching people's 44 00:03:26,120 --> 00:03:31,680 real, not overblown YouTuber reaction. Whoa, stickers, wow, I can't believe. 45 00:03:31,680 --> 00:03:34,880 This is what a normal person looks like when they're reacting to stickers. 46 00:03:34,880 --> 00:03:40,280 You can tell she's being like super careful with everything. Yeah, but that's the way that a real customer would be. 47 00:03:40,280 --> 00:03:45,000 100%. People often get after me about the way that I'm like, yeah, I don't know, I'll be okay. 48 00:03:45,000 --> 00:03:49,240 Yeah, someone also pick up these boxes. A lot of the time it is me after the shoot, 49 00:03:49,240 --> 00:03:52,320 but yeah, I like the quick pace, you know? 100%. 50 00:03:52,680 --> 00:03:55,200 She likes to work in computer at the end. 51 00:03:56,200 --> 00:04:00,360 Packaging is not that great to open. 52 00:04:00,360 --> 00:04:05,400 Oh, sick burn on the packaging. I do like this paper, very, 53 00:04:05,400 --> 00:04:09,600 I don't know how protective it is, but very nice and clean. 54 00:04:09,600 --> 00:04:12,640 I gave her basically nothing going into this. Cool. 55 00:04:12,640 --> 00:04:16,800 I told her that you're building a laptop, you can use as many guides as you would like, 56 00:04:16,800 --> 00:04:22,520 which is from Frameworks website. That's pretty cool. This is representative of pretty much a worst case scenario 57 00:04:22,520 --> 00:04:27,480 in terms of how informed she would be, because if she'd actually placed the order herself, 58 00:04:27,480 --> 00:04:31,320 she would have maybe read the product page, but she's going an even fresher. 59 00:04:31,320 --> 00:04:36,280 Yeah, which is important to keep in mind. She's under a lot of pressure doing something brand new 60 00:04:36,280 --> 00:04:40,160 for her and something she's never done and trying to be camera presentable. 61 00:04:40,160 --> 00:04:44,360 So please like the video and leave a nice comment for Natalie, because she did great in all honesty. 62 00:04:44,360 --> 00:04:45,880 Yeah, she's our prince. 63 00:04:47,520 --> 00:04:51,200 She's going in fresh. Oh, Bel Air. 64 00:04:53,200 --> 00:04:58,200 All right. Set up, upgrade and repair guides, view all guides. 65 00:04:58,200 --> 00:05:02,200 So they had a QR code that she was able to scan. Let's start with step one, yes. 66 00:05:02,200 --> 00:05:05,200 Unbox your Framework laptop, don't power it on just yet. 67 00:05:05,200 --> 00:05:10,200 You'll need to install some modules. I will open it from the packaging first then. 68 00:05:10,200 --> 00:05:12,200 Framework laptop, wow. 69 00:05:14,200 --> 00:05:16,200 So excited, Natalie. 70 00:05:17,200 --> 00:05:20,200 Locate the Framework screwdriver in the package underneath, yep. 71 00:05:20,200 --> 00:05:23,200 It's the only tool you'll need to assemble 72 00:05:23,200 --> 00:05:27,200 the Framework laptop DIY edition. Okay, let's see if that's true. 73 00:05:27,200 --> 00:05:30,200 That is pretty cool that you only need one tool to build it. 74 00:05:30,200 --> 00:05:33,200 And they give it to you. And this is actually where I noticed the first issue 75 00:05:33,200 --> 00:05:38,200 with Framework's guides here. It had the QR code in the box and she scanned it 76 00:05:38,200 --> 00:05:44,200 and it took her to that website there. It didn't take her to the direct link for her specific SKU. 77 00:05:45,200 --> 00:05:48,200 I think that's something they could improve. Yes. 78 00:05:48,200 --> 00:05:54,200 So she has the AMD version. Yes. Step four, insert the DDR5 memory module. 79 00:05:54,200 --> 00:05:58,200 So you lift open the flap, there's two slots. 80 00:05:58,200 --> 00:06:01,200 It's cool that they have videos in the guide. Not just pictures, that's sick. 81 00:06:01,200 --> 00:06:04,200 Yeah, according to the video. And one thing I did confirm is the QR codes 82 00:06:04,200 --> 00:06:10,200 on the individual items themselves do take you to like those specific instructions. 83 00:06:10,200 --> 00:06:13,200 So for the RAM or whatever. Right, so everything else was right. 84 00:06:13,200 --> 00:06:18,200 Except the very first one. Which is the one that they shove in your face when you open it. 85 00:06:18,200 --> 00:06:20,200 There we go, first RAM stick. 86 00:06:22,200 --> 00:06:26,200 Doesn't look like she got it in quite. A little more in might help. 87 00:06:26,200 --> 00:06:30,200 I do think that video could be better. I think they could show that you have to 88 00:06:30,200 --> 00:06:34,200 like slide it in a little harder. One thing I think that's tough about the video too 89 00:06:34,200 --> 00:06:37,200 is that like overlay of like the back 10, forward 10 and play 90 00:06:37,200 --> 00:06:41,200 stays open in that tiny window and it darkens the whole screen. 91 00:06:41,200 --> 00:06:44,200 So it's like a little annoying. You can see her several times. 92 00:06:44,200 --> 00:06:47,200 She tries to like tap away so that it like goes away. 93 00:06:47,200 --> 00:06:50,200 And then there's the click. Okay, she gets it. 94 00:06:50,200 --> 00:06:54,200 Yep. Nice. Using the T5 bit in the frame. 95 00:06:54,200 --> 00:06:57,200 Oh, I need my handy tool. 96 00:06:57,200 --> 00:07:00,200 Unscrew the fastener. She works for Creator Warehouse. 97 00:07:00,200 --> 00:07:04,200 Natalie, you can say screwdriver. It's not a competing product. 98 00:07:04,200 --> 00:07:07,200 Yet. Do you think that screwdriver is better than LTT stores? 99 00:07:07,200 --> 00:07:11,200 How dare you? Oh, the LTT screwdriver all the way. 100 00:07:11,200 --> 00:07:14,200 Yeah, she knows what's up. I was just asking you. She knows what's up. 101 00:07:14,200 --> 00:07:17,200 It was a non-bias question. Trader. I... 102 00:07:17,200 --> 00:07:22,200 Speaking of bias actually, this is probably a good time to ask like 103 00:07:22,200 --> 00:07:26,200 how I can evaluate something like framework when I've invested in them. 104 00:07:29,200 --> 00:07:32,200 Oh, how can you fairly evaluate something like framework 105 00:07:32,200 --> 00:07:37,200 when you have invested in them? Elijah, what's your problem? 106 00:07:37,200 --> 00:07:42,200 You manage the project. You know that I didn't do anything but green light it 107 00:07:42,200 --> 00:07:48,200 and film it. Well, and add this super awkward interaction. 108 00:07:48,200 --> 00:07:51,200 This is a really awkward way of telling them. Yeah. 109 00:07:51,200 --> 00:07:54,200 I added this part. I thought it was funny. 110 00:07:54,200 --> 00:07:57,200 That is not magnetic. Can I hold the screw in? 111 00:07:57,200 --> 00:07:59,200 Yeah, what is this? Throw shade. 112 00:08:01,200 --> 00:08:04,200 All right, step five done. There you go. 113 00:08:04,200 --> 00:08:07,200 Take that framework. I would honestly call those like the easiest steps 114 00:08:07,200 --> 00:08:11,200 of a laptop because you can do that with even some pre-builds already. 115 00:08:11,200 --> 00:08:14,200 Well, the challenge is getting that thing open. 116 00:08:14,200 --> 00:08:20,200 Sure. In a lot of cases. Yeah, it's really easy when it's easy to open up the machine. 117 00:08:20,200 --> 00:08:24,200 Install the touchpad cable. Assuming it's... 118 00:08:24,200 --> 00:08:29,200 this. Well, the picture, the picture doesn't really match. 119 00:08:29,200 --> 00:08:34,200 That's a really good point. Make sure the touchpad side of the touchpad cable 120 00:08:34,200 --> 00:08:37,200 is fully inserted here. 121 00:08:37,200 --> 00:08:40,200 So this is one of those things where it comes inserted already. 122 00:08:40,200 --> 00:08:43,200 But they actually give a step eight just in case. Right. 123 00:08:43,200 --> 00:08:47,200 Make sure you double check this. Yeah, it'd be nice if they said it is pre-attached. 124 00:08:47,200 --> 00:08:50,200 Yeah. But it could come loose in shipping. Tell me why. 125 00:08:50,200 --> 00:08:54,200 Yeah, so it does say in the red there. The cable should be inserted far enough. 126 00:08:54,200 --> 00:08:57,200 Yeah, but it doesn't say why I'm checking it. Yeah. 127 00:08:57,200 --> 00:09:01,200 Like occasionally these come loose in shipping due to thermal expansion and contract. 128 00:09:01,200 --> 00:09:04,200 Like tell me why I'm doing something. Yeah. 129 00:09:04,200 --> 00:09:07,200 Educate me. There you go. Nice. 130 00:09:07,200 --> 00:09:10,200 Good job, Natalie. Line the corners of the bezel to the display and place it down. 131 00:09:10,200 --> 00:09:14,200 The bezel is attached by magnets and should easily click into place. 132 00:09:14,200 --> 00:09:19,200 Sometimes. Sometimes the display cable can kind of 133 00:09:19,200 --> 00:09:24,200 not cable manage perfectly. Oh no, that's going to happen, isn't it? 134 00:09:24,200 --> 00:09:27,200 You're going to find out very quickly. Oh good. 135 00:09:27,200 --> 00:09:32,200 That does not sound great. 136 00:09:32,200 --> 00:09:36,200 Oh, she didn't screw on the top yet. No, she wasn't supposed to. 137 00:09:36,200 --> 00:09:39,200 The instructions did not tell her to screw on the top. 138 00:09:39,200 --> 00:09:43,200 The instructions ask to open the hinge 180 degrees 139 00:09:43,200 --> 00:09:46,200 and put the bezel on. She followed that. 140 00:09:46,200 --> 00:09:49,200 Yeah, so she didn't have it quite aligned yet. Yep. 141 00:09:49,200 --> 00:09:52,200 Let's try this one again. So you can kind of see some of those cables there. 142 00:09:52,200 --> 00:09:55,200 Yep. Just leave by magnets. Okay. 143 00:09:55,200 --> 00:09:58,200 That is something that framework could improve. Yep. 144 00:09:58,200 --> 00:10:02,200 It would be nice if they had pictures of what correctly seated cables looked like. 145 00:10:02,200 --> 00:10:05,200 Yes. Because I've actually run into it before 146 00:10:05,200 --> 00:10:08,200 where I routed it across the wrong thing 147 00:10:08,200 --> 00:10:12,200 and that made it worse, not better. So she's now like double checking everything. 148 00:10:12,200 --> 00:10:15,200 She's like worried about her input cover. She was worried about all of this. 149 00:10:15,200 --> 00:10:18,200 Interesting. There's a lot of comments on these. 150 00:10:18,200 --> 00:10:21,200 Do the comments outline some of the issues 151 00:10:21,200 --> 00:10:25,200 that we've encountered already? There was someone in the comments that helped, 152 00:10:25,200 --> 00:10:30,200 that would have helped solve this issue. That crunching, we'll find out in a little bit, 153 00:10:30,200 --> 00:10:33,200 was actually due to how the screws, 154 00:10:33,200 --> 00:10:37,200 because they're captive, fell underneath the laptop 155 00:10:37,200 --> 00:10:40,200 and the hinge catches it when it tries to close. 156 00:10:40,200 --> 00:10:44,200 Got it. And so it's the bezel related 157 00:10:44,200 --> 00:10:48,200 because you have to lay it down for the bezel. Yeah, but it's caught on the screws. 158 00:10:48,200 --> 00:10:51,200 Yeah. But the comments are not that obvious. 159 00:10:51,200 --> 00:10:54,200 Yeah. She even mentioned, she's like, 160 00:10:54,200 --> 00:10:57,200 do I have to go in the comments? Do I go to the comments? 161 00:10:57,200 --> 00:11:00,200 There's no way I go to the comments. There's no way you have to go to the comments 162 00:11:00,200 --> 00:11:03,200 for instructions. There's no way I have to go to the comments. 163 00:11:03,200 --> 00:11:06,200 Oh, Natalie. So she doesn't. So she doesn't. 164 00:11:06,200 --> 00:11:09,200 She doesn't. Framework needs to go into those comments. 165 00:11:09,200 --> 00:11:12,200 Mine for nuggets of gold. Yeah. 166 00:11:12,200 --> 00:11:15,200 And nugget them. Oh, this was back when I had my horrible haircut. 167 00:11:15,200 --> 00:11:18,200 Oh, God. Man, that's gross. Why'd you show that on camera? 168 00:11:18,200 --> 00:11:21,200 Her infection. What? It was just her there. 169 00:11:21,200 --> 00:11:23,200 Now she's got a staff infection. 170 00:11:24,200 --> 00:11:28,200 So you can see the screw there caught on the hinge. 171 00:11:28,200 --> 00:11:33,200 That's what I had to do. I had to turn it upside down. So the gravity took the fasteners back down. 172 00:11:33,200 --> 00:11:36,200 Yeah. Then I could close it. Yeah. 173 00:11:36,200 --> 00:11:39,200 And no crunch. 174 00:11:39,200 --> 00:11:42,200 And then this is where I tell her in the comments, 175 00:11:42,200 --> 00:11:45,200 someone points out that the fasteners will get in the way. 176 00:11:45,200 --> 00:11:48,200 Yeah. So this is actually where now it tells you to keep going 177 00:11:48,200 --> 00:11:52,200 and screw the fasteners back in. I think this step should honestly come first. 178 00:11:52,200 --> 00:11:55,200 Yeah. But they don't want the screen to be closed 179 00:11:55,200 --> 00:11:59,200 because without the bezel, you know, it doesn't add all the protection and everything. 180 00:11:59,200 --> 00:12:03,200 Yeah. That is a big wall of text for the expansion cards. 181 00:12:03,200 --> 00:12:06,200 But I understand why. I didn't even know this when I did my unboxing. 182 00:12:06,200 --> 00:12:11,200 But the AMD version specifically has certain modules 183 00:12:11,200 --> 00:12:14,200 that work best in certain spots. Mm-hmm. 184 00:12:14,200 --> 00:12:17,200 Modular IO. It's pretty cool. It's kind of cool. 185 00:12:17,200 --> 00:12:20,200 It's pretty sick. Open the lid and press the power button. 186 00:12:20,200 --> 00:12:23,200 All right, this is the moment of truth. Here we go. 187 00:12:23,200 --> 00:12:28,200 Where's my top-down view? There we go. Note that your first boot will take a while before the logo. 188 00:12:28,200 --> 00:12:31,200 That's a really good thing for them to point out, 189 00:12:31,200 --> 00:12:36,200 especially modern AMD platforms. They take a hot minute for memory training on the first boot. 190 00:12:36,200 --> 00:12:41,200 Oh, yeah. And there you go. There's some intricate parts that are a little bit difficult 191 00:12:41,200 --> 00:12:45,200 to kind of grasp at first. Obviously with the screw issue, 192 00:12:45,200 --> 00:12:47,200 we didn't know until we looked at the comments. 193 00:12:48,200 --> 00:12:52,200 But overall, it's kind of a pretty fun experience building our own laptop. 194 00:12:52,200 --> 00:12:55,200 Do you think that you would save the personal 195 00:12:55,200 --> 00:12:59,200 between $100 to $200 to do this experience again? 196 00:12:59,200 --> 00:13:02,200 This is the moment of truth. I think so, yes. 197 00:13:02,200 --> 00:13:07,200 She thinks so, yes, even after some struggles. It's worth the savings for a hundred bucks, 198 00:13:07,200 --> 00:13:11,200 a couple hundred bucks off the laptop. The more of a savvy shopper you are on your RAM 199 00:13:11,200 --> 00:13:14,200 and on your storage, the more you can potentially save, 200 00:13:14,200 --> 00:13:18,200 because I gotta tell you, when we did the framework factory tour 201 00:13:18,200 --> 00:13:22,200 and I discovered that the DIY ones actually get fully assembled into a working machine 202 00:13:22,200 --> 00:13:25,200 before being taken back apart. Yeah. 203 00:13:25,200 --> 00:13:28,200 And then sold as a DIY. It's not labor savings. 204 00:13:28,200 --> 00:13:32,200 Yeah. It's not paying a markup on those additional components. 205 00:13:32,200 --> 00:13:35,200 100%. The touchpad's working. Perfect. 206 00:13:35,200 --> 00:13:39,200 That's good. Oh, okay. This is the camera and this is the audio 207 00:13:39,200 --> 00:13:42,200 that you're hearing from this framework laptop mic. 208 00:13:42,200 --> 00:13:45,200 Hopefully everything sounds good. Sounds good, Natalie. 209 00:13:45,200 --> 00:13:48,200 Good job, Natalie. Thank you. She put the stickers on. 210 00:13:48,200 --> 00:13:52,200 Nice. Cool. This is actually pretty symmetrical with the stickers. 211 00:13:52,200 --> 00:13:56,200 I'm very proud of that. I mean, I'm pretty proud of the laptop too. 212 00:13:56,200 --> 00:14:00,200 I'm trying to include that editor to make sure that part's in there at the end. 213 00:14:00,200 --> 00:14:03,200 So after this, we did a full check just to make sure everything did fully work 214 00:14:03,200 --> 00:14:07,200 and it arrived to us in 100% working condition. Excellent. 215 00:14:07,200 --> 00:14:11,200 Which means that if we want to recreate Seth's issue, 216 00:14:11,200 --> 00:14:14,200 we're gonna have to do some work. He said his display wasn't turning on 217 00:14:14,200 --> 00:14:19,200 and the LEDs inside his chassis were giving him three different error codes. 218 00:14:19,200 --> 00:14:23,200 But we couldn't find any reference to any of those codes on Framework's website. 219 00:14:23,200 --> 00:14:26,200 So either Framework hasn't published them yet 220 00:14:26,200 --> 00:14:29,200 or it's possible Seth misinterpreted them. 221 00:14:29,200 --> 00:14:33,200 Either way, we won't be able to recreate his exact situation that he had. 222 00:14:33,200 --> 00:14:36,200 The closest thing that I could come up with, 223 00:14:36,200 --> 00:14:40,200 I took a knife to the display cable and cut it until it didn't turn on anymore. 224 00:14:40,200 --> 00:14:43,200 It worked. Or it didn't work. 225 00:14:43,200 --> 00:14:46,200 And then meanwhile, we asked Alex to unbox the 16. 226 00:14:46,200 --> 00:14:49,200 Look at his face. That's a man who laptops. He does laptop. 227 00:14:49,200 --> 00:14:52,200 He seriously laptops. Okay, this is their config, 228 00:14:52,200 --> 00:14:56,200 which explains why we were able to get it in a week, which is absolutely fantastic. 229 00:14:56,200 --> 00:14:59,200 That's about what you expect and especially given it's Canada. 230 00:14:59,200 --> 00:15:02,200 Went right into hosting mode. I just asked him to open it and check it 231 00:15:02,200 --> 00:15:05,200 and he was like hosting. I was like, this is great. This is great. 232 00:15:05,200 --> 00:15:09,200 It's almost like he's been doing it for seven years, I think. 233 00:15:09,200 --> 00:15:12,200 So wait, we wanted a pre-built config here? 234 00:15:12,200 --> 00:15:15,200 This should have been pre-built. Wait. 235 00:15:15,200 --> 00:15:18,200 I'm not sure why. Did we order a pre-built? 236 00:15:18,200 --> 00:15:21,200 So this is where it gets confusing because we ordered a pre-built 237 00:15:21,200 --> 00:15:24,200 and as someone who never ordered a framework before, 238 00:15:24,200 --> 00:15:27,200 I expected it to come 100% built. 239 00:15:27,200 --> 00:15:32,200 But because the framework 16 has the modular interface on top, 240 00:15:32,200 --> 00:15:35,200 they make you put that together. Yes. 241 00:15:35,200 --> 00:15:38,200 To make you know how to reconfigure it. 242 00:15:38,200 --> 00:15:42,200 But as a user, I was very confused when I saw the keyboard on top. 243 00:15:42,200 --> 00:15:46,200 I was like, well, huh? Do they mess up our order? 244 00:15:46,200 --> 00:15:49,200 It does appear that it has everything that you need 245 00:15:49,200 --> 00:15:52,200 minus the IO, but does it have a keyboard? 246 00:15:52,200 --> 00:15:57,200 It does not. It does not. That's something that I normally expect on my laptops. 247 00:15:57,200 --> 00:16:00,200 Are you supposed to have a keyboard installed in the pre-built? 248 00:16:00,200 --> 00:16:01,200 No. 249 00:16:04,200 --> 00:16:07,200 Man, that's so cool. That's still one of the, like, ah. 250 00:16:07,200 --> 00:16:11,200 It's pretty cool. The one we're watching on right now has a numpad installed. 251 00:16:11,200 --> 00:16:15,200 So the keyboard is shifted to the side and the spacers are both on the right. 252 00:16:15,200 --> 00:16:18,200 You get to choose if your trackpad is centered here. 253 00:16:18,200 --> 00:16:22,200 Yeah. Or centered on your space bar when you have the numpad over here. 254 00:16:22,200 --> 00:16:26,200 That's a really nice little bit of customization that you can do. 255 00:16:26,200 --> 00:16:30,200 We have confirmed that our pre-built is supposed to come without the keyboard installed. 256 00:16:30,200 --> 00:16:33,200 That's a little bit questionable in my mind, but at the same time, 257 00:16:33,200 --> 00:16:37,200 if you're buying a framework and not planning on configuring it, 258 00:16:37,200 --> 00:16:41,200 just don't buy a framework by any other laptop that's not repairable. 259 00:16:41,200 --> 00:16:44,200 That is a fair statement as well, though. That's a fair statement. Yeah. 260 00:16:44,200 --> 00:16:48,200 Yep. The sales pitch for framework is the repairability, 261 00:16:48,200 --> 00:16:55,200 the upgradeability, the customizability. If you aren't even willing to just put the magnetic keyboard on. 262 00:16:55,200 --> 00:17:00,200 And it attaches real easy. So, like, it probably isn't the machine for you. 263 00:17:00,200 --> 00:17:03,200 Yeah. And that's okay. Audio is a requirement. 264 00:17:03,200 --> 00:17:08,200 I don't even know why this is a dongle. I should just have it attached to the machine. 265 00:17:08,200 --> 00:17:11,200 Another fair criticism. I agree with that. 266 00:17:11,200 --> 00:17:14,200 They gave it to us on the 13 and then took it away on the 16. 267 00:17:14,200 --> 00:17:18,200 Oh, we've got Ethernet. Oh, look at how fancy it looks. 268 00:17:18,200 --> 00:17:22,200 It's right see-through. Oh, never mind. I don't like that as much anymore. 269 00:17:22,200 --> 00:17:25,200 It does not fit within the chassis. 270 00:17:25,200 --> 00:17:28,200 I actually, I have a bone to pick. 271 00:17:28,200 --> 00:17:31,200 I don't like that because me being stupid, 272 00:17:31,200 --> 00:17:34,200 I will drop it in my bag and one day, 273 00:17:34,200 --> 00:17:38,200 I will go with that end first and I will destroy it. 274 00:17:38,200 --> 00:17:43,200 It should have been flush. The way that I think of it, it's a Wi-Fi first device. 275 00:17:43,200 --> 00:17:49,200 Like many other mobile devices. This is a great little USB-C, two and a half gig dongle. 276 00:17:49,200 --> 00:17:54,200 That's pretty cool. At a good price, very compact, compatible with anything. 277 00:17:54,200 --> 00:17:58,200 Totally understand the critique. It will not break off easily though. 278 00:18:05,200 --> 00:18:09,200 Thank you for destroying our capture. 279 00:18:09,200 --> 00:18:13,200 So the Ethernet doesn't break very well, but it will break the other modules. 280 00:18:13,200 --> 00:18:16,200 Oh, shoot. The system locked up. Hold on, hold on. 281 00:18:16,200 --> 00:18:20,200 We'll turn it back on. We're just going to shut it down and turn it back on. 282 00:18:20,200 --> 00:18:23,200 Did I break the computer? Can you just make sure this still works? 283 00:18:23,200 --> 00:18:26,200 Hey! Thank goodness. 284 00:18:26,200 --> 00:18:29,200 And your two and a half gigs still works as well. 285 00:18:29,200 --> 00:18:32,200 Nice. Anyway, the point is that if you do put it in your bag 286 00:18:32,200 --> 00:18:35,200 with this thing in, is it the most elegant thing ever? 287 00:18:35,200 --> 00:18:38,200 Absolutely not. I wish they had one of the little hinge-y style ones 288 00:18:38,200 --> 00:18:41,200 or something. But will it like immediately break? 289 00:18:41,200 --> 00:18:44,200 No. You just might have to reboot your computer. 290 00:18:44,200 --> 00:18:49,200 All right. It's now plugged in. Let's try turning it on again. 291 00:18:49,200 --> 00:18:53,200 Yay. Input module connector board not detected. 292 00:18:53,200 --> 00:18:58,200 Uh-oh. Is that supposed to be installed for a pre-built? 293 00:18:58,200 --> 00:19:01,200 The input module connector board? Yes. 294 00:19:01,200 --> 00:19:04,200 Neat. So it goes in double checks. 295 00:19:04,200 --> 00:19:08,200 It just needed a little click. It's possible during shipping. 296 00:19:08,200 --> 00:19:12,200 30 seconds for someone who is so far above the average 297 00:19:12,200 --> 00:19:16,200 in terms of their technical knowledge and experience with laptops. 298 00:19:16,200 --> 00:19:19,200 Like Alex is the 1%. 299 00:19:19,200 --> 00:19:24,200 Yeah. If something takes him 30 seconds, it's going to take my mom 30 minutes to figure out. 300 00:19:24,200 --> 00:19:27,200 For laptop repair. My mom's good at lots of things. 301 00:19:27,200 --> 00:19:32,200 Yep. Graphics all fantastic. If here's that framework has done everything correctly. 302 00:19:32,200 --> 00:19:35,200 Finally, let's just confirm that the webcam is working. 303 00:19:35,200 --> 00:19:38,200 Also, is this microphone? 304 00:19:38,200 --> 00:19:41,200 Okay. The microphone switch works. 305 00:19:41,200 --> 00:19:44,200 Yep. As far as laptop that has arrived correctly, 306 00:19:44,200 --> 00:19:48,200 this one passes. So then that seems like a W. 307 00:19:48,200 --> 00:19:51,200 Well, Alex didn't quite check everything. 308 00:19:51,200 --> 00:19:55,200 Unfortunately, there was actually an issue with our numpad in the top left region. 309 00:19:55,200 --> 00:19:58,200 The top left region of the numpad. What does that even mean? 310 00:19:58,200 --> 00:20:01,200 It was several keys and it was inconsistent. 311 00:20:01,200 --> 00:20:06,200 So we tried receding the module on both sides. We tried taking it out, doing a whole bunch of configuration. 312 00:20:06,200 --> 00:20:12,200 And ultimately we couldn't get it working even after updating Windows, drivers and BIOS. 313 00:20:12,200 --> 00:20:19,200 So we had to open another support ticket. And hand off to Elijah to give you the results from the DIY 13. 314 00:20:19,200 --> 00:20:22,200 I opened the ticket explaining what my issue was 315 00:20:22,200 --> 00:20:26,200 as well as some basic troubleshooting steps that I had already taken. 316 00:20:26,200 --> 00:20:29,200 The idea here was to see that if they would ask me 317 00:20:29,200 --> 00:20:33,200 to repeat my work, just like they did with Seth. 24 hours later, framework responded 318 00:20:33,200 --> 00:20:37,200 with some follow-up steps and questions to help figure this problem out further. 319 00:20:37,200 --> 00:20:40,200 After answering them and responding back to those questions, 320 00:20:40,200 --> 00:20:43,200 54 minutes later, they followed up one more time. 321 00:20:43,200 --> 00:20:47,200 I was honestly pretty impressed that they got back to me so quickly. 322 00:20:47,200 --> 00:20:51,200 And then we ran into the same issue Seth was having. They did ask me to repeat a step 323 00:20:51,200 --> 00:20:55,200 that I had told them I did in my first email. And as an end user, that's really frustrating 324 00:20:55,200 --> 00:21:00,200 to have to repeat yourself. But as someone who did work in tech support 325 00:21:00,200 --> 00:21:03,200 helping people fix their tech issues in the past, 326 00:21:03,200 --> 00:21:06,200 I can't count the number of times that I have asked someone 327 00:21:06,200 --> 00:21:09,200 to reboot a computer that they said they have 328 00:21:09,200 --> 00:21:13,200 only to check their task manager and see that it's been up for three years. 329 00:21:13,200 --> 00:21:16,200 In my personal opinion, I think them asking me to try that 330 00:21:16,200 --> 00:21:20,200 is totally fine, especially since this is their first time 331 00:21:20,200 --> 00:21:24,200 asking me to try it. But if we dive deeper into Seth's case a little bit later, 332 00:21:24,200 --> 00:21:29,200 you'll see that's not what happened to him. For my machine here, I had one more back and forth session 333 00:21:29,200 --> 00:21:33,200 and then framework came to the conclusion that we needed a new display kit. 334 00:21:33,200 --> 00:21:37,200 And if you remove the days I was on vacation and the weekends where I wasn't working, 335 00:21:37,200 --> 00:21:40,200 it took the framework support team three days 336 00:21:40,200 --> 00:21:43,200 to reach that result, which is honestly pretty solid. 337 00:21:43,200 --> 00:21:46,200 My new display kit arrived in six days. 338 00:21:46,200 --> 00:21:50,200 And as you can see, it works. It took about 15 minutes to swap it out 339 00:21:50,200 --> 00:21:53,200 using framework's guide that they both emailed us 340 00:21:53,200 --> 00:21:56,200 in that support chain and then included in the box 341 00:21:56,200 --> 00:21:59,200 with the screen. Repairable laptops for the win. 342 00:21:59,200 --> 00:22:03,200 That's awesome. As for our framework 16, 343 00:22:03,200 --> 00:22:06,200 that's where everything falls apart. They killed it again. 344 00:22:06,200 --> 00:22:11,200 Who am I kidding? If you take out the weekends where I wasn't able to respond, 345 00:22:11,200 --> 00:22:14,200 it took them four days to diagnose that numpad issue. 346 00:22:14,200 --> 00:22:18,200 I was asked to send back the old one and they did cover the shipping. 347 00:22:18,200 --> 00:22:23,200 I just had to throw it in a box and send it on its way. At no point was I frustrated or upset 348 00:22:23,200 --> 00:22:27,200 with the framework support team. And I'm confident in saying that they had no idea 349 00:22:27,200 --> 00:22:31,200 who we were since both devices were purchased using burner emails on credit cards 350 00:22:31,200 --> 00:22:34,200 that were not associated with an employee here. 351 00:22:34,200 --> 00:22:37,200 But framework doesn't come out of our investigation 352 00:22:37,200 --> 00:22:40,200 looking perfect. I'm going to throw it back to Linus 353 00:22:40,200 --> 00:22:47,200 so we can hear the rest of Seth's experience. He spent almost three weeks chatting with support 354 00:22:47,200 --> 00:22:51,200 during which they did send him a motherboard as a troubleshooting step. 355 00:22:51,200 --> 00:22:55,200 But then after the swap, Seth was still having the same issue. 356 00:22:55,200 --> 00:22:59,200 Like Elijah pointed out, asking the user to try something once, 357 00:22:59,200 --> 00:23:02,200 that's fine, even if the end user does say they already did it. 358 00:23:02,200 --> 00:23:07,200 But in this email chain, we can see that framework asked him not once, 359 00:23:07,200 --> 00:23:10,200 but twice to try external displays and not once, 360 00:23:10,200 --> 00:23:13,200 but four times to try different combinations 361 00:23:13,200 --> 00:23:17,200 of shuffling RAM around. I think that would make just about anyone feel 362 00:23:17,200 --> 00:23:20,200 like they're getting the run around, especially if this is happening 363 00:23:20,200 --> 00:23:25,200 over the course of a month. Now, he did say some kind words to framework 364 00:23:25,200 --> 00:23:28,200 in the final email, expressing that he believes in their mission 365 00:23:28,200 --> 00:23:31,200 to create more sustainable and repairable devices, 366 00:23:31,200 --> 00:23:34,200 but that given the laptop was for his wife's schooling, 367 00:23:34,200 --> 00:23:37,200 he couldn't wait around forever for a working device. 368 00:23:37,200 --> 00:23:41,200 I don't blame him for asking for a refund. So what's the takeaway then? 369 00:23:41,200 --> 00:23:46,200 For you guys, it's what we always say. You should be looking for multiple sources of information 370 00:23:46,200 --> 00:23:49,200 every time, multiple media outlets, consumer reviews, 371 00:23:49,200 --> 00:23:52,200 to get the whole picture of a product or company, 372 00:23:52,200 --> 00:23:55,200 you are going to have to go out there and dig for it. 373 00:23:55,200 --> 00:23:59,200 As for framework, well, hey, the good news for you guys is that 374 00:23:59,200 --> 00:24:03,200 while you do make mistakes, it seems like the impression, 375 00:24:03,200 --> 00:24:07,200 even from people who have a bad experience, is that you guys actually care, 376 00:24:07,200 --> 00:24:11,200 and that's a badge that you can wear with honor. That doesn't mean that there's no room to improve, 377 00:24:11,200 --> 00:24:14,200 but hey, at least you guys recognize it. 378 00:24:14,200 --> 00:24:18,200 This Reddit thread actually popped up while we were working on this video, 379 00:24:18,200 --> 00:24:21,200 with Buddy buying 150 devices to deploy, 380 00:24:21,200 --> 00:24:25,200 and then realizing that every time they opened a support ticket, 381 00:24:25,200 --> 00:24:29,200 they were going to have to go through this same tedious back and forth email experience. 382 00:24:29,200 --> 00:24:34,200 I mean, for an end user, snapping some pictures and communicating over a couple of days 383 00:24:34,200 --> 00:24:38,200 might not be the end of the world, but if you're going through that kind of rigmarole 384 00:24:38,200 --> 00:24:41,200 with a fleet of devices, you're going to be tearing your hair out. 385 00:24:41,200 --> 00:24:44,200 Thankfully though, the OP made a follow-up thread explaining 386 00:24:44,200 --> 00:24:48,200 that because of his feedback, framework is actually expanding and changing 387 00:24:48,200 --> 00:24:51,200 some of their systems around their business-to-business sales model, 388 00:24:51,200 --> 00:24:54,200 meaning that other companies should have an easier time 389 00:24:54,200 --> 00:24:57,200 buying and taking care of a large number of their devices. 390 00:24:57,200 --> 00:25:01,200 They even ended it with saying, they sincerely give a f***. 391 00:25:01,200 --> 00:25:04,200 That is very encouraging, 392 00:25:04,200 --> 00:25:10,200 and while I'm not going to give them a grade, because I don't think you can boil this down to just a letter or a number, 393 00:25:10,200 --> 00:25:13,200 I think it's safe to say that I'm still on board, 394 00:25:13,200 --> 00:25:16,200 and actually, whether he knows it yet or not, 395 00:25:16,200 --> 00:25:21,200 so is Seth. I realize, Seth, you probably have another laptop by now, 396 00:25:21,200 --> 00:25:26,200 but I would like to offer you, as a show of our appreciation for bringing this issue to our attention, 397 00:25:26,200 --> 00:25:29,200 Elijah's hand-fixed framework 13. 398 00:25:29,200 --> 00:25:33,200 So hey, thank you very much, and as for the rest of you, let us know in the comments 399 00:25:33,200 --> 00:25:37,200 if you've had any experiences with framework that you guys would like to share. 400 00:25:37,200 --> 00:25:40,200 And while you're down there, hey, maybe check out our sponsor. 401 00:25:40,200 --> 00:25:45,200 If you guys enjoyed this video, maybe go check out the first time that we unboxed a framework laptop. 402 00:25:45,200 --> 00:25:49,200 That was what inspired me to invest in this company, and so far, his investment is safe. 403 00:25:49,200 --> 00:25:51,200 I'm glad I did.