1
00:00:00,000 --> 00:00:03,220
You guys aren't gonna believe the deal I just got.

2
00:00:03,220 --> 00:00:08,060
800 bucks for a brand new RTX 4090 on eBay.

3
00:00:12,560 --> 00:00:16,560
Oh, well, I guess it was too good to be true.

4
00:00:16,560 --> 00:00:21,320
But no worries, eBay, Amazon, even Aliexpress,

5
00:00:21,320 --> 00:00:25,440
they've got robust buyer protection schemes that make it simple to get your money back

6
00:00:25,440 --> 00:00:29,440
if your product doesn't show up or isn't as advertised.

7
00:00:29,440 --> 00:00:35,440
So the question then is, why are these scam listings still all over these platforms

8
00:00:35,440 --> 00:00:38,920
if they can't possibly work? I had to find out for myself.

9
00:00:38,920 --> 00:00:42,400
So I hit buy it now on an obvious fake listing

10
00:00:42,400 --> 00:00:46,040
and well, it didn't happen exactly like we just showed,

11
00:00:46,040 --> 00:00:49,080
but we did learn a ton about how scammers

12
00:00:49,080 --> 00:00:54,080
are operating on these platforms and how they could still get your money

13
00:00:54,080 --> 00:00:58,680
and leave you empty handed. But you know who would never leave you empty handed?

14
00:00:58,680 --> 00:00:59,520
Our sponsor.

15
00:01:08,520 --> 00:01:13,440
This topic originally came up on The WAN Show when a viewer pointed us to this listing

16
00:01:13,440 --> 00:01:18,160
and asked, hey, what gives with this? And then I impulsively responded with,

17
00:01:18,160 --> 00:01:23,560
I don't know, let's order it and find out. Well, we didn't even get as far as placing our order

18
00:01:23,560 --> 00:01:29,520
before another helpful viewer reached out and laid out how they almost lost their money

19
00:01:29,520 --> 00:01:34,200
with a similar listing. As it turns out, these scammers have found some ways

20
00:01:34,200 --> 00:01:39,080
to get valid tracking numbers without actually shipping you anything.

21
00:01:39,080 --> 00:01:42,080
We'll get to the how later, but what you need to know for now

22
00:01:42,080 --> 00:01:45,720
is they can just pick a tracking number that's going to your city

23
00:01:45,720 --> 00:01:49,200
and then give that to eBay or another marketplace seller

24
00:01:49,200 --> 00:01:52,520
to prove delivery, making it much more difficult

25
00:01:52,520 --> 00:01:57,440
for you to file a dispute. But like, that shouldn't work, right?

26
00:01:57,440 --> 00:02:02,000
Well, whatever the reason for it, have you noticed how couriers give less

27
00:02:02,000 --> 00:02:06,600
and less information about a shipment these days? Forget about a zip code,

28
00:02:06,600 --> 00:02:12,040
you're lucky to even get an origin and destination city. And because eBay can't see the specifics

29
00:02:12,040 --> 00:02:17,240
of the tracking number that our scammer provides them, any delivery to roughly the same area

30
00:02:17,240 --> 00:02:20,480
and roughly the same timeframe will make it seem

31
00:02:20,480 --> 00:02:26,100
like the seller has done their job. So dispute closed, but here's the problem.

32
00:02:26,100 --> 00:02:29,520
You still don't have your GPU or your money.

33
00:02:29,520 --> 00:02:33,840
So what can you do? Reaching out to the scammers a waste of time,

34
00:02:33,840 --> 00:02:38,440
they already know it's a scam and you could try to escalate your dispute with eBay,

35
00:02:38,440 --> 00:02:41,480
but how do you prove that you didn't get your shipment?

36
00:02:41,480 --> 00:02:46,000
The tracking says you did, plain as day. Well, okay, how about the courier then?

37
00:02:46,000 --> 00:02:50,720
Surely they can see that the tracking number has nothing to do with you and they can,

38
00:02:50,720 --> 00:02:55,740
but that's actually a problem too. Because they're not supposed to give out information

39
00:02:55,740 --> 00:02:59,980
about shipments that seemingly have nothing to do with you.

40
00:02:59,980 --> 00:03:04,900
And then even if you do convince the courier's support representative that your story is true,

41
00:03:04,900 --> 00:03:11,200
eBay is gonna want something tangible, not just an email from a neat based chatbot.

42
00:03:11,200 --> 00:03:16,620
So what happened with our viewer then is they ended up having to physically go to the UPS store

43
00:03:16,620 --> 00:03:21,900
and convince an agent there to provide a note on UPS letterhead that stated

44
00:03:21,900 --> 00:03:27,820
that the tracking number that the seller provided was not associated with the buyer's address.

45
00:03:27,820 --> 00:03:33,060
Only when that was scanned and sent to eBay was a refund finally approved.

46
00:03:33,060 --> 00:03:37,620
So how does the scam work? Well, in a nutshell, the scammer hopes

47
00:03:37,620 --> 00:03:41,460
that either you aren't persistent enough to go get that hard evidence

48
00:03:41,460 --> 00:03:45,300
or that the courier's support team is too stubborn to give it to you.

49
00:03:45,300 --> 00:03:50,540
Now, I think that many of us would be pretty persistent when it comes to recovering that amount of money,

50
00:03:50,540 --> 00:03:56,260
but here's the thing. If a scam didn't work, nobody would be trying to pull it.

51
00:03:56,260 --> 00:03:59,900
All right, that's the short version. But this scam didn't just pop,

52
00:03:59,900 --> 00:04:03,260
fully formed into someone's brain. So how did we get here?

53
00:04:03,260 --> 00:04:06,300
Well, it's kind of a funny story because get this,

54
00:04:06,300 --> 00:04:10,940
it didn't actually start out as a scam. Rather, it started as a clever way

55
00:04:10,940 --> 00:04:15,140
to deal with marketplace restrictions. So before we get into that,

56
00:04:15,140 --> 00:04:19,020
let's do a quick refresher on online marketplaces and dropshipping.

57
00:04:19,020 --> 00:04:23,220
I'm sure you've seen these little sold-by notices when you shop on basically

58
00:04:23,220 --> 00:04:26,740
any major online retailer these days. Well, just like eBay,

59
00:04:26,740 --> 00:04:29,780
these sites are acting as marketplaces.

60
00:04:29,780 --> 00:04:34,540
The benefit for smaller sellers is it allows them to list and sell their items

61
00:04:34,540 --> 00:04:37,760
on large recognizable brand name stores

62
00:04:37,760 --> 00:04:41,500
in order to reach a wider customer base. The benefit for the marketplace

63
00:04:41,500 --> 00:04:46,400
is they get a cut of every sale without needing to do inconvenient and costly things

64
00:04:46,400 --> 00:04:51,160
like maintaining inventory, or in some cases, even fulfilling the orders.

65
00:04:51,160 --> 00:04:57,320
This system allows just about anyone to list their product on, say, BestBuy.com.

66
00:04:57,320 --> 00:05:01,100
But hold on, they're gonna need a warehouse and a logistics team, right?

67
00:05:01,100 --> 00:05:06,200
Nope. Thanks to dropshipping services, the seller can just give the marketplace

68
00:05:06,200 --> 00:05:09,480
a list of items and inventory that they have access to

69
00:05:09,480 --> 00:05:13,720
through third-party warehouses, and then they wait for someone to place an order,

70
00:05:13,720 --> 00:05:18,080
quickly buy it from a supplier, who packages it up, sticks the seller's logo on it,

71
00:05:18,080 --> 00:05:21,720
usually for an extra fee, and then ships the product to you.

72
00:05:21,720 --> 00:05:25,400
In these cases, neither the retail site that you used,

73
00:05:25,400 --> 00:05:29,560
nor the seller, ever even touched the product that they sold you.

74
00:05:29,560 --> 00:05:32,620
It is nothing like buying from LTTstore.com,

75
00:05:32,620 --> 00:05:36,120
where you can check out our new Labs collection and rest assured that we are involved

76
00:05:36,120 --> 00:05:39,800
in every step of the process, from design, to ordering, to warehousing,

77
00:05:39,800 --> 00:05:43,000
to shipping, to customer service. Sorry, where was I?

78
00:05:43,000 --> 00:05:47,640
Oh, right, I'm sorry. Marketplaces. In spite of this lack of control,

79
00:05:47,640 --> 00:05:50,740
marketplaces, they still wanna keep their brand respectable,

80
00:05:50,740 --> 00:05:54,160
so they do take precautions to protect their customers,

81
00:05:54,160 --> 00:05:57,240
like for example, holding onto the money for a couple of weeks

82
00:05:57,240 --> 00:06:02,200
to ensure that the order actually gets delivered, or insisting that the seller provide

83
00:06:02,200 --> 00:06:06,480
a tracking number for the shipment. And it's that last point that brings us,

84
00:06:06,480 --> 00:06:12,480
finally, to the tracking number piece of the puzzle. See, no retailer likes to send you off-platform.

85
00:06:12,520 --> 00:06:16,960
So, when you wanna track your order, they like to pull the tracking details

86
00:06:16,960 --> 00:06:21,320
from the courier's API and then wrap it up in their own pretty little interface.

87
00:06:21,320 --> 00:06:24,680
Well, that means that they need to limit their sellers

88
00:06:24,680 --> 00:06:28,000
to the couriers that they have integrated into their site.

89
00:06:28,000 --> 00:06:32,740
Now, sellers mostly played along at first, but as marketplace fees have risen,

90
00:06:32,740 --> 00:06:36,100
sellers have felt the need to get more creative

91
00:06:36,100 --> 00:06:40,600
to preserve their profitability. Say, for example, by using discount couriers

92
00:06:40,640 --> 00:06:44,360
that their marketplace doesn't support. Well, somewhere along the line,

93
00:06:44,360 --> 00:06:48,160
someone had the bright idea to use discount Joe's delivery,

94
00:06:48,160 --> 00:06:51,360
but then give the marketplace a made-up string of numbers

95
00:06:51,360 --> 00:06:55,840
and hope that, well, as long as the item arrives, no one's gonna notice or care.

96
00:06:55,840 --> 00:07:00,400
And that worked, at least for a little while. But then the marketplace is wised up

97
00:07:00,400 --> 00:07:03,960
and they demanded that the tracking number be valid.

98
00:07:03,960 --> 00:07:07,480
Okay, so now our sellers need a more legit fake tracking

99
00:07:07,480 --> 00:07:11,600
number, how do they get it? Well, a quick Google search shows how these numbers

100
00:07:11,600 --> 00:07:17,160
are formatted and most couriers will let you check dozens of tracking numbers at a time on their website,

101
00:07:17,160 --> 00:07:21,680
hundreds if you use their API. So, what if we just write a bot that generates

102
00:07:21,680 --> 00:07:25,240
and then checks tracking numbers, logging any that work into a database

103
00:07:25,240 --> 00:07:29,040
so that we can use them later? But line is, you say.

104
00:07:29,040 --> 00:07:33,680
Writing that bot could take dozens of minutes if you've never heard of chat GPT.

105
00:07:33,680 --> 00:07:38,880
Well, don't worry, there's an even easier way. A quick search surfaced a wide selection

106
00:07:38,880 --> 00:07:44,160
of professional looking websites that offer valid active tracking numbers for sale.

107
00:07:44,160 --> 00:07:47,880
I'm not talking about the dark web here, guys. This is plain old boring internet.

108
00:07:47,880 --> 00:07:51,400
Let me show you. All I gotta do is select a destination city.

109
00:07:51,400 --> 00:07:58,600
Let's say Surrey, Canada. I can specify an approximate estimated delivery date range,

110
00:07:58,600 --> 00:08:02,240
shipment status in transit, and I want it to come from the States.

111
00:08:02,240 --> 00:08:05,000
I click get tracking number and,

112
00:08:05,880 --> 00:08:09,760
dun dun dun dun dun dun dun dun dun dun. Dah!

113
00:08:09,760 --> 00:08:15,000
There it is. Origin Kernersville US shipped yesterday.

114
00:08:15,000 --> 00:08:19,120
You can even pick details like the approximate weight of the package if you want to get fancy.

115
00:08:19,120 --> 00:08:23,040
And that's it. We now have the tracking number for someone else's shipment

116
00:08:23,040 --> 00:08:26,640
for the low low price of just 25 freedom cents.

117
00:08:26,640 --> 00:08:30,040
Now, some of these sites claim that you are

118
00:08:30,040 --> 00:08:34,800
trading tracking numbers while others try to imply that your actual shipment

119
00:08:34,800 --> 00:08:41,240
will totally be trackable with the number you're buying. But in both cases, that is obviously complete bulls***.

120
00:08:41,240 --> 00:08:45,280
These services are all about tricking marketplaces.

121
00:08:45,280 --> 00:08:49,240
But the thing is, solving this is not as simple as you'd think.

122
00:08:49,240 --> 00:08:53,200
Because the marketplace isn't the shipper or the receiver,

123
00:08:53,200 --> 00:08:58,200
even if they had someone on staff whose job it was to check that everything lines up,

124
00:08:58,280 --> 00:09:05,000
both carriers wouldn't be at liberty to share any information about a shipment that doesn't involve them.

125
00:09:05,000 --> 00:09:09,840
And, let's be real, even if the marketplace did notice the tracking was sus,

126
00:09:09,840 --> 00:09:14,440
what are they gonna do? They're gonna email the seller and then wait for a response.

127
00:09:14,440 --> 00:09:18,720
A response that will almost certainly be, oh, sorry about that, that was a mistake.

128
00:09:18,720 --> 00:09:21,920
Let me get back to you with the right number. Well, that's gonna buy discount, Joe,

129
00:09:21,920 --> 00:09:25,040
at least a couple more days to scooter up to your driveway

130
00:09:25,040 --> 00:09:28,240
with that e-girl keyboard that you so desperately need.

131
00:09:28,240 --> 00:09:32,160
At which point, everyone loses interest in the investigation.

132
00:09:32,160 --> 00:09:36,640
But where are these fake, real tracking numbers coming from?

133
00:09:36,640 --> 00:09:40,760
Did these guys hire a guy on Fiverr to whip up some of those bots we talked about?

134
00:09:40,760 --> 00:09:44,520
Well, maybe. But we also came across another possibility

135
00:09:44,520 --> 00:09:49,440
while digging through eBay forum threads. Have you ever used one of those third-party tracking apps

136
00:09:49,440 --> 00:09:54,720
or websites to track your shipments? You know the kind. They promise to track any parcel from any courier,

137
00:09:54,720 --> 00:10:00,360
no matter how obscure, which saves you the arduous work of typing in multiple three-letter domain names.

138
00:10:00,360 --> 00:10:05,760
Well, many of these sites are in countries with what's called a loose data protections.

139
00:10:05,760 --> 00:10:09,320
And if you take the time to peruse their terms and privacy policies,

140
00:10:09,320 --> 00:10:15,160
you'll find that they generally do not consider tracking numbers to be personal or private information.

141
00:10:15,160 --> 00:10:18,720
So we've got these sites that are just slurping up

142
00:10:18,720 --> 00:10:23,400
active tracking numbers all day, every day, keeping track of where they're going and when.

143
00:10:23,400 --> 00:10:28,160
And we combine that with the market that happens to exist for valid tracking numbers.

144
00:10:28,160 --> 00:10:31,560
And well, let's just say there's some synergies

145
00:10:31,560 --> 00:10:36,160
to leverage, as they say. Now, to be clear, I don't have any hard evidence

146
00:10:36,160 --> 00:10:39,640
and I'm not saying that all of these tracking sites are selling data.

147
00:10:39,640 --> 00:10:43,920
I'm just saying that I would be shocked if at least some of them weren't.

148
00:10:43,920 --> 00:10:47,080
And if they are, well, up until this point,

149
00:10:47,080 --> 00:10:50,160
it isn't that bad of a scam.

150
00:10:50,160 --> 00:10:54,400
It is dishonest and it completely defeats the purpose of tracking,

151
00:10:54,400 --> 00:10:57,480
but most of the sellers that are buying these tracking numbers

152
00:10:57,480 --> 00:11:01,240
really are shipping your product and you really will get it.

153
00:11:01,240 --> 00:11:05,400
Eventually, they're just trying to jump through marketplace hoops and ship from the most

154
00:11:05,400 --> 00:11:10,000
advantageous sources, most of them. But eventually, someone realized

155
00:11:10,000 --> 00:11:13,400
that they could use those numbers to gain their metrics.

156
00:11:13,400 --> 00:11:18,320
Let's say someone places an order for this, here, this gaming mouse.

157
00:11:18,320 --> 00:11:23,440
After the order comes through though, their supplier goes out of stock and they can't get it.

158
00:11:23,440 --> 00:11:26,640
Well, marketplaces don't take kindly

159
00:11:26,640 --> 00:11:33,680
to sellers who take orders that they can't fulfill. So I'm in a pickle that is until I get an idea,

160
00:11:33,680 --> 00:11:38,560
an awful idea, a wonderful, awful idea.

161
00:11:38,560 --> 00:11:43,120
I can avoid a strike on my account if I just buy one of those tracking numbers

162
00:11:43,120 --> 00:11:46,120
and then just not actually ship anything.

163
00:11:46,120 --> 00:11:50,600
Then, when the tracking says delivered and the customer inevitably reaches out asking,

164
00:11:50,600 --> 00:11:56,320
hey, where's my order? I can say, oh, I'm so sorry, the courier must have messed up.

165
00:11:56,320 --> 00:11:59,840
But don't worry, I'm already processing a refund for you.

166
00:11:59,840 --> 00:12:04,200
At that point, as far as the marketplace is concerned, it's the courier that screwed up.

167
00:12:04,200 --> 00:12:07,560
I'm off the hook. Well, once that little technique spread

168
00:12:07,560 --> 00:12:11,200
around the dropshipping community, it was probably a matter of minutes

169
00:12:11,200 --> 00:12:14,520
before someone thought of using it to just straight up scan people,

170
00:12:14,520 --> 00:12:19,520
which brings us finally to my GPU here.

171
00:12:19,640 --> 00:12:25,280
Now, I got lucky and they terminated this guy's account before he could pretend to ship my order.

172
00:12:25,280 --> 00:12:29,080
That made it much easier for me to file a dispute and get my money back.

173
00:12:29,080 --> 00:12:33,780
But it should be noted, I still had to manually file my dispute

174
00:12:33,780 --> 00:12:39,160
and you might not be so lucky. So then, what can you do to avoid falling victim

175
00:12:39,160 --> 00:12:43,200
to the scam? Well, step one is to exercise restraint.

176
00:12:43,200 --> 00:12:46,480
Before you yell, shut up and take my money.

177
00:12:46,480 --> 00:12:52,600
Take a breath, really look at the listing. Is the price too low, like, unreasonably low?

178
00:12:52,600 --> 00:12:57,760
That's a red flag. Look at the seller. Do they have no or low feedback numbers?

179
00:12:57,760 --> 00:13:01,320
Red flag. What else are they selling? Nothing?

180
00:13:01,320 --> 00:13:05,080
Totally unrelated knickknacks? Why are you even still looking at this?

181
00:13:05,080 --> 00:13:11,200
That's all the red flags you need. You gotta ask yourself, what's more likely that someone totally ignorant

182
00:13:11,200 --> 00:13:15,200
got their hands on a Newman box 4090, realized it was worth money,

183
00:13:15,200 --> 00:13:21,800
signed up for a brand new eBay account and then listed it for maybe half of what it's worth?

184
00:13:21,800 --> 00:13:24,840
Or that someone knows that a cheap 4090

185
00:13:24,840 --> 00:13:30,080
is gonna bring all the boys to the yard and that you should just yell, that's my purse

186
00:13:30,080 --> 00:13:34,380
and kick them in the plums. Bottom line, be careful out there.

187
00:13:34,380 --> 00:13:39,520
The 50 series launch means that there are going to be plenty of perfectly trustworthy bros out there

188
00:13:39,520 --> 00:13:42,520
that are looking to upgrade and move their older cards

189
00:13:42,520 --> 00:13:46,520
onto new owners. And I'm a huge advocate for buying secondhand hardware

190
00:13:46,520 --> 00:13:50,420
to save money and selling it so that somebody can be using it.

191
00:13:50,420 --> 00:13:54,000
Just take your time, find a good deal.

192
00:13:54,000 --> 00:13:57,440
Not too good of a deal. And when you're done,

193
00:13:57,440 --> 00:14:00,440
take some time to check out our sponsor. If you guys enjoyed this video,

194
00:14:00,440 --> 00:14:04,760
maybe check out the one we did on fake SSDs being sold on Amazon.

195
00:14:04,760 --> 00:14:07,160
Why do people feel they need to scam each other?