hey morning everybody morning morning somewhere oh I guess I could change into
that wait is that your circuitry I don't know really so it is not it is not you're
really dedicating to that that pendant day is it good pen amulet what do they
call it I don't know something something legendary or when I read it it sounded
like a an RPG item more than we're putting a surprising amount of real work
into verifying it doesn't do anything yeah verified actually not gamer this is
Luke's morning voice to what is different
okay my laptop's on now all right
okay oh yeah I guess it's scheduled right okay let me just make sure I have my
Floatplane chat working and then I guess I'm good to go
so so do you watch the fight last week if you can call it that I saw a little
bits of it I didn't watch the whole thing I mean it wasn't very long did you
watch the wait what wasn't it no it went full rounds didn't it well I mean
yeah but they were two-minute rounds cuz they like looked at each other and
there were eight rounds yeah so yeah we call it a show I think we should call it
a show yeah yeah there's that clip that people have been sharing around of
Tyson's majorly pulled punch I don't like a very clear shot and he's mid
swinging and Jake like you can see him go like and pull back and then mid swing
Tyson just goes yeah all right cancels it okay they've both been banned from
boxing I don't believe you know only because like of mandatory fight rest
times I think what like you're not allowed to fight immediately after oh okay
yeah that's yeah whatever it unless I'm like mistaken I thought it was just a
clickbait thing
am I wrong I mean no one's like linking anything yeah they required time someone
said yeah yeah so that's just that's just like actual works like daily males
headline here is technically correct they have both been given suspensions
from boxing it was controversial but those two things are not related yeah
yeah yeah news is struggling all right let's let's do this thing we ready
good morning everyone and welcome to the WAN Show we've got a great show lined
up for you guys today what is this the DOJ will try to force Google to sell
Chrome no not like like you have to pay for Chrome in order to use it like sell
business unit this is freaking wild we could also talk about the fight last week
or should we call it a show yeah I don't know we're not boxing commentators but
like realistically that wasn't a boxing match so that's a good call I got them
I won't give a probably not going to talk about that so hold on hold on let me
find something else here I should probably expand on what we said last
week or rather expand on why I wasn't able to say more last week about
the hiatus I is that the term for multiple hiatus is hi to see whichever
one it is Yvonne watched the segment and she was just like that sucked dude you
didn't even like explain why you can't explain and I was like well I thought it
was self-evident and she was like it wasn't and I was like okay thank you
better half I will do better next time I do I understand why you thought that but
I also understand why some people might not get it cool let's go what else we got
today we need a puffery shirt the number of people that talk about puffery ever
since that segment it's really it's really stayed around y'all don't seem to
want actual tech tips yeah question mark no that that seems to be a thing that
seems to be a thing we can talk about that also Microsoft ignite 2024 things
you don't want plus fixing crowdstrike nice
the show is brought to you by Notion Vessie server part deals not to me one
and our laptop partner LG our rap partner D brand and of course our chair
partner secret lab who sent over new chairs for us yeah they're just like
the old chairs but wider and like soft yeah they have they have soft ARM rests
yeah which we're both wearing long sleeves cuz it's like the heat just
turned on this morning so it's not actually warm in here I was good I told
me to wear this oh okay extremely comfy oh okay but yeah well whatever I'm
cold right into our headline topic today the Department of Justice will try
to force Google to sell Chrome ban default search deals and license data for
10 years also Chrome OS might become Android so they have they've submitted
their recommended remedies to judge a meat meta who ruled that Google illegally
maintains a monopoly on search back in August and these are the recommended
remedies so selling their Chrome web browser at the DOJ views it as a key
component of Google's search monopoly with approximately 65% browser share
across all platforms with chromium based browsers accounting for nearly 80% of
the market however I would I would push back a little bit a little bit on clumping
other chromium based browsers in with the chrome monopoly really their fault
well it is and it isn't the dominance of Chrome is what's making a chromium basis
so important for maintaining compatibility with the rest of the web
and even though Google does not single-handedly develop another chromium
based browser they can certainly shove certain they can certainly shove certain
ideas along and and and make them difficult to go against even though it
is possible in some cases they can they can attempt to manifest their own
optimal business environment oh I like that yeah yeah I like that that's good
that's good so anyway I think that the numbers a little I'm just saying I think
the numbers a little fuzzy yeah it's clearly not sure 65% but I also don't
think it's 80% 80% no matter which one of them it is though let's be real that
is a dominant position and it was it is one that Google has has painstakingly
meticulously created and used to their advantage this is kind of wild the next
recommendation is banning Google from entering into default search deals which
amount to 26 billion dollars annually and might end up hurting Mozilla more
than it does Google rudely yeah to be clear a lot of that is 26 billion is
going to Apple not to Mozilla but man this one oh I have kind of I have kind
of mixed feelings on on the one hand yeah these default search deals are a
huge part of why we all tolerate Google search because it's just there when we
open up our browser with that said if that works then more people would use
Bing but yeah I mean I understand just still default in Windows and Bing is
definitely still default an edge if the product was that bad I guess people would
be willing to switch off of it or maybe that's different platform by platform I
mean the whole switching to iOS experience has definitely has definitely
opened my eyes to how intuitive doesn't mean intuitive it just means
whatever arcane ridiculousness you've personally gotten used to right and
that is true that's true across across multiple platforms I mean how is it
intuitive to press control alt delete to access some kind of system menu it's
not doing for a long time exactly so so to you specifically exactly so so
depending on the platform you might find users more or less malleable and
it's it's pretty well established that behavior across iOS and Android users
is different for example I remember like years ago this used to get talked about
a lot more and maybe it's because there was more transparency into the numbers
I actually don't know why nobody talks about it anymore but I remember it would
it would make headlines sort of like cyclically that Apple users spend way
more money yeah on the app store they used to be super common to be talked
about I think that was often when there was notable or more notable I would say
differences between the apps I remember people used to be really frustrated because Android users had lower image quality on Instagram back in the day
yeah yeah that was little things like that were were much more discernible it
was you generally had a worse experience on Android because Android users were
seen as like cheap and not worth focusing on development yeah and and and and
they were yeah to be honest so like yeah like very measurably if you don't
remember this it was like a huge topic and like a like a many times multiplier
it wasn't like the average Android user spends 9% less on apps compared to the
average Apple user and this was more of a thing back I would imagine more of a
thing back when like pretty much every app was like kind of useless unless you
spent like two or three dollars like that was what a that was what a paid app
was back in the day it wasn't so much subscription based services in 2024 the
average iPhone user spends $12.77 per app by comparison the average Android
user spends $6.19 so it's still double still double wow okay as far as my
understanding goes it was like a much bigger gap in the past but I'm not I
don't know how to percent right now I don't know if what Parkour is saying here is true but if it it funny if true a snapchat on Android was apparently
just a screenshot of the camera compared to iOS directly using the camera it
doesn't really it wouldn't really it wouldn't really surprise me that much it
works I mean yeah and do you really need do you really need that kind of
fidelity in a pick I mean I'm just asking questions I'm just asking
questions you know if you if you have lower fidelity you might gain a pixel
here there yeah I mean it's not the whole point of snapchat low fidelity get it
different kinds of fidelity see I got it I'm actually I'm actually I'm actually
what's what's what's our nuts Ashley Madison just released their just
released released their most non monogamous cities in Canada list oh no
yeah Vancouver really Vancouver's very low non monogamy so I mean to be clear
I'm not saying that that's that's a goal I'm just there's there's all kinds of
well there's like you know ethical non monogamy but isn't that site specifically
I'm not judging you if you're like for cheating though well there's a big
difference I mean is any site for anything really Luke I mean it's
Floatplane for early access to anymore although very occasionally very
occasionally there are things but I was actually hinting at something but I yeah
look what I found oh wow I didn't find it I'm gonna put it in my luggage and then
I found it that way but I found a relic wow that is not even that many people in
the audience are even gonna know what that's a name I've not heard in a long
time a long time I pulled that on my luggage was like what what is this yeah
so apparently I lost a shirt but I still have the tuc nice yeah I I'm pretty
sure I still have the shirt kicking around somewhere yeah but it's not it's
not my go-to pajama shirt anymore it was for a long time now it's my gbo shirt
yeah yeah another another name that hasn't stood the test of time what on
earth were we supposed to be talking about oh right Google they also are
recommending that Google be required to license its search index data to
competitors for 10 years so this is the kind of like whoa not slap on the
wrist but actual like no you guys need to not behave like this again and you
guys need to take active steps to prop up your competitors to make up for the
anti-competitive practices that you guys have engaged in and I gotta tell you
already slightly we're not even all the way through the list here already I'm
looking at this going I I have no idea what's gonna happen in January because on
the one hand I think we've I think we've both been pretty happy to see the US
actually finally engage in oh dude Lena Khan any antitrust investigations and
remediation but I I have no idea whether that will or won't continue with
the next administration because I think that everyone on both sides of the
political spectrum can agree that it is likely to be unpredictable yeah I I know
a pretty strong theory around this whole like you're gonna have to sell Chrome
thing is that Google's probable defense is going to be to delay as much as
possible and try again with the new administration the thing with the new
administration though is I don't think they have any particular love for Google
the in general general reply to that theory is that big tech right now is
kind of at odds with both sides which is kind of a funny thing because a lot of
the a lot of the transgressions that both sides are kind of mad at big tech
about are are very different from each other like they're sort of mad for
completely different reasons yeah and it's hard to feel bad for you know the
tech billionaires that have kind of you know sold us up the river over and over
and over again over the last couple of decades but I do kind of feel like at
this point now that everything's so far gone that they just are monopolies
whether they you know kind of like it or not and to be clear you do not have to
be the mono in monopoly is not actually like strictly speaking necessary right
you can just be in a dominant abusively dominant position you don't
actually just have to be a monopoly to follow foul of antitrust regulations if
you completely control everything yes or don't even close to it or or or
collude with a handful of other parties to control things yeah veritasium has an
amazing video on it so there are some very very there there are some very
non monopolist cities in Canada sorry wait what are we talking about the point
is just that everyone's kind of mad at them and looking for an excuse to kind
of punish them but the remediation that another administration might ask for
might be really different yes I guess is is what I would worry about so maybe
roll the dice again kind of thinking this is probably one of the worst they
could have got and then hoping for better I don't know yeah I do think the just
jumping back to it a little bit because I saw some comments about this in the flow plane chat when we were talking about it but the 26 billion in search
deals hurting you know it's gonna hurt Apple but not really Apple will be fine
yeah exactly it's really like the the big damage that we're probably gonna feel
is to Mozilla they're declining in usership effectively constantly oh
thanks Dan I wasn't actually I think okay I want to clarify something really
quick that's not my gesture for fill my water I was checking if there was water
in it that the optics of that were not great
that's I didn't even notice that's pretty funny but but yeah I so like honestly
this shake up okay significantly less cash in the bank I suspect it might
immediately hurt Mozilla in the ability to employ people department things like
that as far as my understanding goes they actually had layoffs recently I
suspect that may continue if this happens but a significant shake up in the
browser market could result in a user base increase an actual one we can help
that could result in Firefox actually having long legs instead of this just
constant decline to eventual irrelevance which they've been kind of on the
path of I enjoy Firefox I use Firefox daily in my personal life Firefox has
been my mobile browser actually the entire time I've ever had an Android phone
since the very beginning of having an Android phone it's gonna be so much
less lucrative for Firefox to even have users if they aren't benefiting from
that Google default search deal yeah you know Bing could swoop in it's not a
ban of there being default search deals it's just a ban of there being you know
Google once it reduces the competition yeah who's the competition why would
Microsoft have to pay a ton of money for it and and if I'm Microsoft and I'm
watching this go down for Google I'm like I don't know if I want to do that
yeah yeah I mean that's like that's how this is supposed to work right like
that's these remedies are not supposed to be oh here's a one billion dollar fine
like cost of doing business they're supposed to be like oh crap everyone
else looking at this going holy crap we really should not do that we should not
do that people are talking about like duck duck go the issue is that duck duck
go doesn't have any money like they have money but they don't have like billions
of dollars a year to use our search engine money otherwise they would just be
doing it already I'll talk I'll talk I'm guessing in full plain chat said since
2019 Mozilla has lost 30 million monthly average users yikes yeah so they've been
on a just they've lost almost an entire Canada of users eventually they're not
going to have anything to take this money from anyways right like there will be
nothing for Google to have bought from them so like I don't know I I'm I'm
hoping that a re-roll of the dice a shake-up something like that might give
them a chance it's going to hurt a lot in the short term because that money is
just going to disappear yeah but hold I don't know hopefully something can
happen out of this that that works out I think the real question Luke is what
have you been doing to help Mozilla it's not like there aren't things you
could do I using it personally it's not enough we put I mean why don't you make
it why don't we put on the lab site that it works best in Firefox why don't you
make it so that flow plane can only be accessed with Firefox since they're all
using Firefox anyway that is a problem that is a good call we probably should
have done that yeah I can I can look towards doing that in the future do you
have your phone in your pocket is it me I think it's this iPhone I think the
is a lot worse in terms of interference because I've kept my phone over
there for since before you brought the I wasn't causing an issue unless it got
damaged and now for those missing context we've done some polls and the
Floatplane the full plane audience swears up and down that they are using
Firefox but we have actual like site access yeah statistics and they don't
yeah people have pointed out that you can like spoof it so that it reports that
you're using Chrome for like weird compatibility recent things I sincerely
doubt that that percentage of people are spoofing it sincerely definitely not a
thing all right yeah more remediations not selling Android but restricting it
from favoring Google search now because this is focused on search and not you
know web mail or web documents or whatever the case may be it sounds like
they could still have default Google apps but I do wonder if this if this all
goes through this all went through if Google would look at a lot of their
current practices and go hey how do we avoid any more of this restricting
Android from favoring Google search that is like what would that look like so
instead of that default Google search bar like I would be prompted when I suspect
on phone setup you or maybe with an update now one time and then set up in
the future you would be prompted to choose your default search and there
would probably be like you know you're and it would have to be randomized five
and then other and it would probably yeah the list would probably have to be
randomized wow and it would involve undoing Google's two billion dollar
investment in AI startup and thropic that would be a really big bummer for
anthropic wait really why no no no like what I'm saying not that it would be a
I understand why I'd be a big bummer for them I'm wondering why they have to do
this I I don't know a ton about anthropic and that and that investment
but what I would guess is that anthropic is super super focused on search but
I'm just guessing I'm completely guessing Google has responded calling the
DOJ's proposal staggering wildly overbroad and part of a radical
interventionist agenda that would harm Americans and break a range of Google
products in an example of how excruciatingly horrible this would be
Google said that the proposal and this is a quote would literally require us to
install not one but two separate choice screens before you could access Google
search on a pixel phone you bought and the design of these choice screens would
have to be approved by the technical committee and that's just a small part
of it we wish we were making this up is that an actual quote that's from Google's
blog are they for real right now this is oh my goodness guys yeah a device set
up wizard is a thing which you already have by the way this is actually very
interesting because this is such an early wancho we have a bunch of EU viewers
and apparently this is like already a thing for them that makes sense
Drek Korrex said in the EU you already get to choose the search engine on
Android technically they said as far as I know at the end of that this is
hilarious yeah people are saying yes we have that already yeah so like what do
you even mean you already did it for them and it's worth noting that in the
EU Android actually maintains better market share than it does in the US so
clearly clearly that ain't the variable that is affecting that so annoying
what an annoying thing to say I hope they lose just because of that can you
can you imagine sitting at Google and thinking that typing that is a good idea
like how did that at a certain point you wonder if like the person who wrote it
is like yeah let's let's torpedo ourselves a little bit because like that's
the worst I don't know we wish we were making this up are you kidding me hold
on you know what no my my source thing oh my god because that is that poking fun
at yourself this is literally literally at blog I didn't even believe it like I
trust I trust Riley okay and and he had the citation in there so I saw the
citation I went I don't need to click through to this but I was like no no the
people deserve for me to actually click through to the Google blog yeah and see
that this is literally we wish we were making this up I wish I was making this
up we already did this in the EU so really we don't have to do any of this
at all but we wish we were making this up I I've had multiple conversations with
multiple people good people strong people the best people tear streaming down
their eyes the window list of people about the like the slow death of just
Google in general like they suck like if we're if we're looking at the
landscape of like modern you know web Silicon Valley style companies what have
they done in the last long time other than just like kill stuff and not innovate
let me think what have they done okay does it count as a thing they've done
if they ultimately killed it no okay that doesn't count no okay hold on
thinking Google fiber well wait no hold on and that's old wait no
okay hold on there's got to be something apparently the EU has had the
choice screen on Android since 2019 actually okay YouTube YouTube has done
some pretty cool stuff YouTube is the only thing I've been able to think of
that has had positive innovation and it has also had really junky negative
innovation yes this is true this is true I would say yeah I was gonna say that
finding stuff to buy through Google and if we're talking about monopolies is
better like like the interface is better but all the sponsored stuff that gunks
up the results is not better so I take that one back Android is better than
ever but like nothing crazy has changed in like it's better than ever though it's
like sure well I'm looking to find stuff you don't get to be like fair yeah
fair enough fair enough okay Google workspace has stood still for a super
long time they don't even have their own realistic chat I know they have chats
which they swear to me that they use internally and I don't believe it oh oh
Google Maps Google maybe they do but they also use other things I bet maybe
other people have had access to this for a long time but my Android Auto
interface for Google Maps finally allows me to report problems like if I see
police I can report it in Google Maps I mean they acquired ways what 10 years
ago so it's it's understandable it took them a little while to port that
functionality over someone says they've had that a map for a long time I don't
man it it did not show up into my interface until like a couple weeks ago
which was the reason that I exclusively use ways even though Waze's search is
terrible like my own badminton center doesn't show up in Waze search and I
don't I don't I don't know why because it's on Google Maps like you they're
literally owned by the same company I thought that's the point of being a
monopoly like the actual point but anyway on basically everything they've
stood still on on they have some people the company that are obviously still
doing good work like they have their their AI researchers wrote the white
paper on like what is breaking the world right now but then they have like one
of the worst ones in Gemini because they didn't capitalize on it because they
don't seem to be able to do anything and the reason why I got onto this topic
is because of the way we wish we were making this up almost feels like they're
they're pointing at themselves because the and the design of those choice
screens would have to be approved by the technical committee that part is like
okay yeah because we can't trust you to do it on your own based on your own
website and documentation you already did it so like what are you talking about
yeah that looks fine yeah it does it's completely fine and they literally
already did it yeah that looks like let's just do that what are you talking
about make things again like Google was such a sick company I really liked
Google I really like Google workspace I can't tell what's different in Google
workspace I can tell you cool stuff I can tell you cool stuff they've done
okay they have those like hardware decoding cards for video hardware video
decoding cards those are cool I don't like a while ago but they like are like
working on them and stuff yeah so they they that's not really for users though
we get the results of it yeah we look I I I have said before and I maintain that
YouTube is one of the wonders of the world it is like I think if we when we
if we didn't have YouTube anymore we would look back on the time that we
would have that we had YouTube and we would go the internet would be different
good Lord like the the the knowledge the library sharing of human experience I
really do feel like it would be a loss yeah maybe not quite on that level
because of how little sort of written knowledge there was in the world at that
time right but I think that given even more time and given even more more
build-up of collective knowledge I think we're in there but I think you could
make the argument I just didn't want to make such a strong statement but no I
think I think it would be I think it would be like that losing something of
that magnitude at this time one of the big things with YouTube is when you'll
you'll find videos on there that are like from 13 years ago and it's it's like
potato you know but it's it's when people were archiving footage from like
pre-internet era so it's not only is it from 13 years ago it's actually from
way before that yep and there's literally nowhere else to access it because on
YouTube any yahoo it's kind of a joke because it's pretty good yeah I can
upload anything they want and it just is there and it's just documented that is
that is I'm not gonna call it a public service because they're clearly a for
profit company and they and they profit from it with your data and your
attention to ads and your premium subscriptions and all of those things but
it to lose it would be catastrophic I think at this point yeah but yeah they
I when's the last time they launched a Gmail you know like when they launched
Gmail they launched it on April Fool's almost as like a joke and then just took
over the world like they don't do stuff like that anymore Google workspace
again hasn't moved at all Gemini I'd say yeah someone's phone is oh Gemini I
say Docs is notably behind it's actually better than it used to be I as someone
who uses it every day it's a lot better than it was five years ago I'll tell you
that it's definitely better what's changed in the last five years specifically I
don't know but just it's the interface is just always like getting a little
better it's always getting a little better there's still things that are probably
one of those things where I can't imagine it but if I saw a version for five
years ago it's probably changed subtly over time still things that are super
obnoxious like once a document is is pressing return is two spaces it's like
damn near impossible to get it to stop doing that for some reason like you can
go in you can tell it single spacing you can tell it whatever you want but if
you like paste something in that has that inherent formatting in it already for
some reason it just like breaks it forever as far as I can tell them I'm sure there is a way around it but it is not intuitive to a word user a long time
word user someone in full-point chat Tim said come on you know more than anyone
that small back-end changes are so huge and you don't realize them unless you
look at them side-by-side yeah I know that what I what I but this is from a
consumer standpoint yeah give me something as a consumer back-end changes
smooth out your infrastructure and make managing it easier and they might even
improve responsiveness here and there but for the most part every time that I've
seen Google tell me that a back-end change is supposed to make my user
experience better it has made it literally worse I'm sure it happens a
bunch of times without them really communicating to you this is totally a
thing it's it's super annoying beyond being on a team when you have to work on
stuff that user the most egregious example of this is the analytics dashboard
which used to be extremely snappy except for the occasional time that it
wasn't and now okay of course it's behaving well right now yeah now it is
for the most part a piece of garbage it's actually doing really well right now
but it had it I I could talk for a long time about how much I hate the new
analytics dashboard and it's not even new it's like seven years old at this
point but I I can't stand it I can't think of anything new that I use for
from from Google and most of the old things that I use from Google are
becoming harder and harder to justify over time due to price increases from
you know getting my YouTube music from my premium subscription that just went
up by 60% because they're trying to shoehorn in AI features that are really
expensive dude so they're cranking the price up just give me Google play music
back yeah I was actually better like the thing that I did the one feature I
cared about the reason that I spent a bunch of money on Sonos speakers and the
reason that I got a Google play music subscription was because from my music
app I could just click cast like like just the cast button you know like like
the Chromecast cast button I could just click the cast button and then pick my
speakers and the integration was perfect and flawless and I never had to touch
that piece of Sonos app I like and now that it's like so bad that like their
CEO had to apologize I feel so validated in that sort of that decision I made to
completely avoid it also oh my god I don't know when this happened but again
back to Android Auto for a second here I can't search in my in my YouTube music
app like I have to like I can voice search not in the app like I can be like
I don't know play Justin Bieber or whatever right like I can do that but if
I'm if I'm like if I'm like using the interface there's no search and the
browse is super hamstrung and what's what's really wild is there's no start
radio button in it anymore and that is it literally like how I use my music app
is like I find a song that I'm kind of in the mood for and then I click start
radio yeah because I just want to I kind of want to listen to stuff like that
type of song yeah and that that start radio button is no longer there in the
player for me and I see a lot of people when I was talking about maps saying like
oh yeah mine has this mine has that it's all over the place though the fact that
you I'm not saying you don't have it and you guys might even have a start radio
button I have no idea but I don't and it is very annoying very annoying okay no
one is actually yeah no one's actually disagreeing with this one so I guess
yeah it's apparently still still bad but yeah just just get bury the hatchet
with Sonos and just make it work again please I don't know I just I've heard a
lot of stuff about how and who knows what's true and what isn't true but I've
heard a lot of stuff about how things work inside of Google apparently the
best way to get promoted was for a long time was to like champion a project to
launch yeah then you would just get promoted after it launched so it that
project would like lose its leader stagnate and then get closed down so it
was just this like farm for junk for a long time so for at the beginning they
were making new good things rapidly and then they saw new good things coming out
rapidly is a good thing for the business so let's incentivize that promote
people that do that but then the people inside that just wanted promotions and
money were abandoning all their projects so they were making new good things and
getting rid of them rapidly for many many years and then now they just don't
seem to really do anything cubes the gamer has one RCS yeah and that wasn't
just a matter of like developing it that was that was like launching and
maintaining for an extended period of time an extremely ultimately effective
campaign to get attention from regulators I was saying a big part of the
lobbying almost more than anything else I think RCS is a good example it's
crazy to me that there is this few examples for a company of 200,000
people this is true this is fair Google meet is pretty good these days
I'm just like I'm barely matters when people are actively moving away from
Google workspace because if you want to be on workspace and you want an actually good chat client you're using workspace in slack and workspace in slack
as a combination is quite expensive in my opinion slack is significantly better
than teams workspace itself though has stagnated so hard that office 365 seems
to have mostly caught up to them yeah if not at parody yeah biggest problem with
office 365 is that teams is just such a dumpster fire it's better than it used
to be I still so bad I have I have messages to you can't to group chat
not existed before yeah I know why well if you attach something to a chat
message you have to wait for it to upload before you click send yeah why in
slack if I attach something and click send it just sends once it attaches yeah
duh like there's there's so many things that are just holy crap if you're in a
big group chat it highlights the box for whoever's talking except for you so you
can't tell if your mic's working why just why there's so much stuff that's
just so confusing we need to get a couch on the wanshow set so he can but so he can lie on the couch and teams but teams therapy
teams is going to keep improving because something that Microsoft is quite good
at is this just never-ending March yep they just keep moving usually a little
bit slower yeah and sometimes backwards but they just keep moving so
eventually teams will be good enough you know there's only so much you can do
with the chat client you're seeing the type of innovation that slack has been bringing lately it's like I think we're at feature parody with MSN messenger
now so the the only way to go is upward from here we're getting there but it's
just it's gonna be really hard for IT teams to justify the cost of having an
expensive Google workspace subscription especially when they're trying to not
give you discounts anymore unless you also buy Gemini which nobody wants and
then also a very premium very expensive Slack subscription when you could get all
of that under a 365 license or a lark license or something like that at a
massively decreased price with more features VDK a makes a very important
point here until we have a nudge feature parody with MSN messenger will not have
been achieved you are you are right yeah thank you for that and I'm sorry I have
misspoke and I have besmirched the good name of MSN messenger and I will not do
it again I miss miss I will not do it again okay what else we got here Google
claims the DOJ should be focusing on revising search distribution agreements
instead okay this is interesting Google isn't the only one who thinks this is a
bad idea some analysts worry about its feasibility and unintended consequences
for example it could potentially harm schools that use Chromebooks and disrupt
the browser market which relies heavily on Google's open source Chromium project
those are both good things some analysts realize that something might happen if
this happens and like this is one of those things where it feels a little bit
like the housing bubble in Vancouver where the my backyard the bigger the
bubble gets the more hand-wringing there is over doing anything about this
because of the economic harm and it's like right you hand-ring the harder the
economic harm gets but like if we done everything properly we wouldn't be here
in the first place and the further we allow it to expand the bigger the
explosion when it pops yeah like yes there's gonna be collateral damage if all
of this goes through there will absolutely be unintended consequences for
but the longer we wait the worse it gets the more the more atrophied every
other potential competitor will become because of Google's dominant position
why you shouldn't allow this to happen in the first place ideally yeah speaking
of the Vancouver housing bubble it's it's kind of starting to look a little
shaky it's looking a little a little sad you know it's it's making a noise like
sales are erupting though yeah sales are sales are going up which will maybe
prop things up a little bit but also interest rates apparently apparently
the Trudeau government is doing like like a buy your vote program oh yeah you
saw that too I'm happy you had the exact same reaction I did and I saw elections
coming soon what if we what if we lower taxes and give you money how about that
what if we got rid of first past the post you ever think of that mr. JT yeah
that thing you said you'd do yeah remember did you ever think of that because I'll tell you what I'll make you a deal mr. Trudeau right now if you're
watching this I will wholeheartedly emphatically endorse you for the next
election if you get first past the post gotten rid of if you do that thing you
said you're gonna before the election you follow through on that first term
election promise I will I will I will say hey for all of his other warts at
least the ones that I can see and the ones I can't see don't show me your warts
hey he's got that cool fall down the stairs trick and he got rid of first
past the post that's enough for me all right because we need election reform
yes we do we need it desperately so I'm there you go I'm in that's all you got
to do what is first past the post I would actually recommend that you watch a
CGP gray video on that but effectively with first past the post you are going
to end up being forced into what is effectively a two-party system yes if
you don't have first past the post you then have ranked choice ideally so you
rank your choices and if one of your parties that you voted for as your
first choice is clearly definitely going to lose they just dump that and your
vote goes towards the second choice and so on and so forth until there's a
winner it also it also makes it so that like let's say you had a super
polarized electorate hypothetical scenario if if you had if you had your
your rank chose rank choice voting card and it had like the the the super
right-wing party here or you had a super right-wing party kind of a centrist
party and a super left-wing party if you were to say well okay I am very aligned
with the right-wing party and very misaligned with the left-wing party but
I guess these center guys would kind of be okay and if everybody basically did
that but like flip-flopped that center party would actually have some
representation in the formed government yeah because if everyone kind of agreed
that these guys are okay even though one of the other two hyper polarized
parties was their first choice those those centrist sort of mindsets would be
much more representative is pretty much what it would come down to first pass the
post drives people to extremes because it ends up making in my opinion most
people vote on an anything but them type basis instead of for what they actually
want and ranked choice voting allows you to vote for what you actually want which
is like enormously massive difference or or or more like it allows you to it
allows you to specify what would be uncompletely unacceptable and what
would be more acceptable and what would be preferred and then you can you can
account for that it often results in something that's a little bit more
average not necessarily the best or better but it'll it'll help lean towards
something that's a little bit more average instead of more extreme I don't think there's any like voting system that involves everyone and is perfect I
don't think there's any voting system that's perfect really no but first pass
the post is like definitely one of the worst yes there are worse ones yeah but
but it's one of the worst but first pass the post is really good for the
incumbent it's really good for those parties that are that currently hold
all the power so that's why it's really hard to get any kind of reform passed
because they are highly disincentivized to do it it's really it's really
frustrating why is it called first pass the post as a shortcut it's called first
pass the post because whoever passes the requisite number of votes to win that
race just takes all the marbles instead of accounting for for anything else
digital be 11 says Veritasium has a good video on voting systems and that makes
perfect sense I'm sure Derek does so why don't you guys go check that out yeah
moving on did we finish the Google topic um discussion question blog post
multi-cube and social thing Google has told Android authority that Google's
multi-year plan to migrate from OS fully over to Android which lines up with a
Google blog post from June 2024 swapping parts of Chroma yeah I think we're I
think we're pretty much done I think we've talked about this enough okay so what do you want us to do Dan announcements oh you want us to do
announcements oh good lord there's a handful of announcements today okay from
Tuesday November 26th to Monday December 2nd we will be running some
incredible deals on some of our most popular products at LTT Store but what
we're really excited for are these bundles that we're putting together with the help of some of our partners if you've already seen our Black Friday
Cyber Monday email sign up page then there's something new on it make sure
you sign up so you don't miss out on the deals also Floatplane subscribers oh
this is is this because of like the new like better integration between float
plane and LTT Store like what is this quite similar to what we had before it's
just a different way of using it oh okay Floatplane subscribers we'll be
getting one day of early access on Monday November 25th let's go now my
understanding is that early access is to the week long deals but it is possible
that there are messages on my phone that will further clarify what is going on
okay what no I do not have any further messages on my phone so I think that
would be the week long deals I don't think that that will necessarily include
some of the very limited quantity flash deals but I do not know for sure the way
to know for sure is to be signed up for the newsletter so that is at LMG.GG
slash BFCM Dan do you want to throw that in all the chats to make sure that
everybody gets that can do now it's time for us to play a game we're sorry we're
playing some people are saying that they don't see the email sign up form it's
probably because you have something blocking it nice
that makes sense modern internet is a thing okay Luke let's see if you can
guess what these items are sorry I don't have an item here Dan do you know
anything about this is it these what are these no I've been wondering about what
everything on the day there oh dance like these items are what items um but I
think you had a good feeling about the item in the middle of last week I don't
know what the items are is it in this I think you had a good feeling what they
were the bag I guess so Riley had mentioned this I'm I'm so sorry Riley
okay cool why don't we come back to this guessing game plan for the products on
set which will be I don't know here anyway so the early access thing subscribe
at LMG.gg slash fp black friday to subscribe to Floatplane people are
saying it's the bundles at the bottom of the black Friday page oh the question mark
things oh I was also guess what they are thank you audience okay there we go the
big freaking bundles okay how specific am I supposed to get I think you're
supposed to get very specific how the heck you really
peek at you guess that can you just say ditto for product among I don't know the
the first one based on the what looks like the wrist rest attachment and the
fact that it doesn't have no you're supposed to guess the middle one the
middle one that's a stream deck okay it's apparently in the human organ
transplant bag that is on the set whoops that's my thing
why Luke I don't know what's going on right now any more than you do sure yeah
cool oh it's not it's a wave XLR it's from the same brand oh wow you got it
wrong I'm sure they use the same housing wow Luke you're zero for one wait I
don't think I'm gonna get any of these then check it wait what no hold on a
second what what's going on what I don't think that's right because the doc
says the doc says Elgato stream deck mark 2 is supposed to be in the organ
transplant bag what is happening right now
you can't do this any more
okay from the shadow you literally can't tell the difference between the two
okay I have one on my desk it looks like what is the silhouette on the right
it's a keyboard mon I don't know I'm my my guess on the right Luke that's the
left headphone mon these look like Sennheiser's they look like Jamaican
headphones Pokemon sure who's that Pokemon yeah sure yeah anyways do any
Pokemon have mon at the end of the game Squirtle mon anyways they look like
smoke mon
that's a good reference the cucumber song thing about how it's good for you or
whatever yeah yeah I don't know why I remember that
they look like they look like a sanitizer headphones I'm guessing based
on the band that they're like all right check under your table right now it was
wrong last time I don't know dude I don't know they're not 600s they're HD 560
open back headphones nice both of these items are gonna be included in bundles
that are on sale throughout the entire event or until we run out which is
probably more likely but there's a third item on the left good gravy this is
taking forever Corsair K65 Corsair K65 did you look at the dock no okay it
looks like it has a tent it doesn't look like the LTT backpack that is here
between us Luke wow nope it's the K70 K70 core TKL with Corsair I thought it
said milks and I was like really MLX red smooth linear switches a 120 dollar
keyboard that will be included in a bundle at no extra cost along with one
more thing but this bundle is going to be dropping on a random day throughout the
week so I'd really recommend you sign up for email notifications at LMG GT slash BFCM to have the best chance at securing one so I was five switches off
yeah yeah good right brand though you can kind of tell from the silhouette
that's a Corsair keyboard yeah okay so we made our way through that eventually
yeah also for those for the announcement left hand for the
announcement right hand okay so Linus camp but hold on I'm gonna figure this
our collaborative wrist rest with Delta hub is back in stock and this time the
left hand variants are available too quickly during the first run and this
time you can get early access to the Black Friday sale you can get 15% off by
going through our link in the video description and finally oh this is an
announcement but it's nothing to do with the store OVH Cloud Summit 2024 why is
it that Luke has a go bag with him right now not because the world has ended
yet but coming up on November 28th Luke will be live in excuse me live
apparee hosting this year's OVH Cloud Summit live event yes there will be
great discussions around cloud computing AI machine learning and more and it'll
be hosted on their twitch and X links which we will have in the video
description where you guys can find out more that is actually super cool I said
15% 15 should genuinely that should be pretty fun I've seen the lineup of people
that I'll be interviewing I'm actually genuinely so are you like a media
personality again like what what do you even I guess who who are you I don't know
what exactly is it that you do not sure to be honest okay stuff yeah ever comes
up prominent guy they should just ask for that to be your little like tag that
thing yeah you're like you're a renaissance man podcaster development
team lead lab thing yeah bird enthusiast I don't know there's all there's all
kinds of like infrastructure enjoyer historically great lover chicken
specifically you love chicken yes he just really loves it chicken's very
effective that's what he loves about it yeah it's the most effective bird yep
100% hit rate on chicken why the chicken crossed the road to get away from Luke
you have no idea how many chickens have sacrificed themselves for my mediocre
physique that's a stolen joke but anyways I think it's actually gonna be really
fun I'm excited for that okay tune in cool what what else are we even what are
we supposed to be talking about today Dan can you please get this show back on
the rails I've been trying are you still are you done with the announcement I don't know am I I'll read the doc for you then let's see yeah looks about right
then let's do some merch message okay sure merch messages so you head on the
store you add something to your car to box pops up you leave a merch message we
think it's better than super chats or twitch bits because hey if we get to your
message great or Dan can pop it up down here or reply to it or forward it to
someone internally to get you an answer well you know we're gonna do our best
to acknowledge your message but if we don't then hey well there's always you
know getting some high quality merchandise in the mail yeah all right
cool so anyway merch messages hit me show us how it works Dan sure let's see
your first is from Zachary how much is Google to blame for people getting
scammed Facebook and Instagram don't have customer support but if you Google
it a bunch of scam results appear should customer support be mandatory so I
think there's a more of an issue with like Facebook not having customer support
incredible amount of free products that would instantly cease to exist oh man
yeah so okay so basically what you're saying is that Google is returning search
results that are invalid and that are scams when people are trying to contact
Facebook and Instagram support okay so so step number one is yes a customer or
help option of some sort should absolutely be mandatory for any business
and especially for someone that operates on the order that Facebook does like if
we can afford to have customer support Facebook can afford to have customer
support so any free service has to have customer support well dude nothing's free
it's not free so there's that Facebook you're absolutely paying for you pay in
your data and if it wasn't profitable they wouldn't be doing it if that became
a lot genuinely a lot of services would instantly shut down if they had to have
customer support yeah well hold on a second because I'm not saying every
service like if there's some some like back-end project or something that we
have implementation for on our website or something like that I think if you
are consumer facing maybe maybe I should call it consumer support then if you are
end user facing give me an example of someone who shouldn't have to have end
user support for their product straw poll straw poll is straw poll even a company
I don't know and like realistically pull that off top man okay hold on a
second you do they have support watch them have support hold on a second what
the what the devil is contact them we have pricing type form and why do they
have straw pool straw straw straw straw easiest pull creator ever that only
okay well apparently there's competition in the create a quick create a quick
pull space also hold on a second they have support they totally have support
just confirmed it online contact us support email so they have a they have a
pricing structure now though so I did I wasn't aware try again sir I don't know
give me an example something that shouldn't have support everything should have support because how else are you gonna get customer feedback literally if
we didn't have LTT Store support how would we ever improve yeah but that's a
store that's like a very different situation okay fine any if we didn't
have support how would we improve Floatplane is a paid to access service
everything is paid though everything's paid you pay with your attention looking
at ads you pay with your personal information you pay with your credit
card you pay for everything everything's paid so I not there's no free lunch yeah
I can't think of any examples right now small Linux distros Linux support for
Linux distros I think there are some like support forums with that count I
think that I'm count DAC overflow um you know what no I well see here's my
problem because I think in the case of something like a like a Linux distro I
actually would say that yeah I think that I think that counts I think that's
valid right if it's a community created community supported products then I
think it can be yeah then it can be community supported community created
can be community supported but the fact that Microsoft for example has that I
forget what it's called like Microsoft answers or like what's it called give me
a second I'll get there so the fact that Microsoft relies on community
contributors to answer supporting queries for freaking Windows yes ridiculous
is actually comical and actually very annoying to be honest like actually
comical because it basically just gives them a shield to put in front of
themselves to not have to fix things that are problems if they were if they
were actually accountable if they had to pay if they had to pay billable hours to
employees or contractors to sit and explain to people why freakin search
doesn't work if that was actually on their books we might get a different
response from them about it maybe they might actually fix it or it would just
be canned responses because eventually eventually like someone would look at it
and go hmm it might actually be cheaper to just develop a fix to this they
would just script a canned response everybody and not actually turn it AI
but yeah what about this what about it that's a that's a forum where support
you hold on no no no we have we have we have you can contact an
admin or moderator we literally have that I'm gonna find it I'm gonna find it
smart guy it's not official support though so well hold on staff okay line is tech
and I'm not logged in but you can literally send me a message but that's not support
no it's not but hold on hold on hold on okay by the way don't bother because I
don't reply to them anymore but um no no I'm pretty sure I'm pretty sure there's a
I'm pretty sure there's stuff hold on I'm gonna find it hasn't found it yet forum support
we'll find it rich there we go right there we totally have support now I knew we had
support smart guy we a hundred percent you know why we have that support though because
you should have support no for a GDPR forget me requests sort of actually but it's because we
we did sales through the forum okay but we would need it anyway and we would totally have it anyway
no I I'm not you know what I'm gonna die on this hill every service that is customer facing
consumer facing and anyone who pays you in any way whether it's with their blood or their
look at all the DNA friggin collection companies man 23 amie's implosion is terrifying if you're
not terrified of that you should be terrified of that even if you never sent your genetic
information to them if anyone even kind of related to you did you could be like that whole thing
sucks and I'm super angry about it still I'm probably screwed and just don't know you're
actually screwed and do know yeah what was I gonna say would you would you accept some form of
threshold of like revenue for the company or something like that like there's a lot of laws
like flow planes protected by I don't know out of these where if you're if you're below a certain
amount of revenue certain laws don't take place yet I think as long as we also account for well we
have like very little revenue but we do have a casual like nine billion dollars in seed funding
like I think I think basically once once a certain amount of money is flowing in some way
I'm done with that you should support the product so once you either have a certain amount of revenue
or have raised a certain amount of dollars I'd be completely fine with that I just think I think
this has there's a lot of these types of laws that I see come in that to a certain degree seem
designed to benefit big players and like some some random little forum or some random little
thing here or there that like you know maybe they do make money off of it I would they probably
actually do have team boo suggests that another threshold could be users and I think that's valid
that's an interesting one there's a contact is there actually a support though wow this website
is rough I just went to paint dot net oh yeah good old paint dot net the email is not for technical
support or troubleshooting there's a forum linked below there's an example yep there's just a support
forum please ask our forum but isn't isn't paint dot net like open source there's a donate button
yeah but that's uh again you said any site or service no what I said is that it if it is community
created then it can be community supported so I said the forum is valid for that okay okay
I don't remember that bit but I believe you yeah I was probably thinking about something else oh okay
chicken probably I haven't eaten today so maybe maybe um yeah I don't know I think if there was
some amount of yeah either a user count or a revenue count or a freeware freeware not open
source sorry sorry and and yes this is a really good point vng supernova says open source doesn't
mean community created um that's also very true that is very true often means limited amount of
contributors because uh because I don't know either there often isn't that many contributors or it's
people that just want credit for job applications uh hex dot says no chance uh with elon as part of
the next use to administration doesn't tesla not even have pr anymore they don't have pr but what
they do have is customer support they actually they do have support if you are an individual
end user you can 100 contact tesla but whatever issue you're having with your model whatever
so let's just let you know look I'm not a fan of a lot of stuff that he's done especially over
the last few years there seems to be kind of this weird kind of turn that he's taken but let's let's
not uh let's not make things up right um yeah mi gu says elon is their pr department for better or
for worse that is a true statement uh let's maybe move on to yeah I've got to get out of here in like
40 minutes oh do you okay uh let's move on to our sponsors then cool what is the show even been
about so far we're gonna have to get through some topics at some point only google only google it's
the google show guys all right the show is brought to you today by notion if you want the power of
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thing i don't call anything waterproof um finally the show is brought to you by server part deals
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oh okay oh neat yeah this is different from what i've seen before so you kind of go like this
and then your hard drive comes out and that's a casual 24 terabyte c gate exos in there
very cool is that one of ours uh oh yeah look we've inventoried it that might be for mother
vault please don't drop that one oh okay although if it was in the packaging it wouldn't matter
right so what you're saying is that i should drop it but i should just put it back in here first
right Dan yeah that's probably from one of the v devs's lives so if we lose that drive we'll lose
the entirety of the mother vault what really no what we like to live dangerous no there's no way
that's true stop it re sobering takes eight days uh we wouldn't we wouldn't do that yeah okay
Dan but i bet i'm sure you could anyway so many levels why would that have been done
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good so uh go for it i'm also told that they actually sent us that hard drive to oh okay they
sent the hard drive okay hey thanks oh so that's just like legitimately exactly how it was packaged
because yeah that's how it was sent it that makes sense and then we owned it which destroyed the
entire bit but okay neat okay um i want to talk about this the topic is y'all don't seem to want
actual tech tips yeah i uh i saw this did you did you did you check out the video i checked out the
video um there was also if i remember correctly there was actually a reddit thread talking about how
good parts of the video were even though the person recognized i i think it was about this video i
don't remember i'm i'm i didn't know this was gonna be a topic in the doc so i didn't prep for this um
how good parts of the video were even though they're usually just interested in the entertainment
parts of the video they saw how it was like connected to real world things and like wow this
is really cool and i was like yeah so we did a video this week that has changed titles a couple
times because it's performing trying to make it work terribly and basically it was it was me and
elijah and i got to give some credit to ploof who was actually the one who did the facebook
marketplace dumpster diving before uh the project got passed to elijah to get it across the finish
line um and but right now it's called i built an insane surround sound setup for under two hundred
and fifty dollars and the original title focused on um building a home an entire home theater for
less than the price of the the most popular sound bar and i don't know if the boast tv speaker is the
most popular sound bar today but it was the last time we did a why is everybody buying this uh this
sound bar it was it was the most popular sound bar on i believe amazon was the platform that we were
using for that series at that time and the amount of criticism for this video slash the extremely
low performance of this video has been a little demoralizing for me to be perfectly honest with
you i've seen a lot of people that are kind of dunking on it for being you know another another
facebook marketplace video um i've seen a fair number of people dunking on it because we're
comparing against a new sound bar instead of comparing against a second hand sound bar so they
see it as kind of like an unfair fight um i've seen quite a few people say that um you know the
odds of them being able to find the exact parts that we're using are basically zero therefore
this is not applicable to anybody and i gotta say guys i i don't know i i don't know i don't know how
to deal i don't know how to deal with that and if the video was performing great like if it was
getting a ton of views um then it would be fine but i guess what i'm trying to say is like i'm
looking at this going like real tech tips might not be sustainable like if this if people are
what did i do what can i do differently i guess is what i'm asking because like to your like what
you said is is exactly right like that's that's not the point the point is not finding the exact
av receiver that we did yeah the point is the journey did did you watch the video by any chance
and it's fine if you didn't wasn't this one i watched a different one so basically
what we what we did was we we got a few different options we started land center audio one got it
we started with an old home theater in the box um so it was it was a number of years old and it was
probably around 500 bucks when it was new but it was like 40 bucks today which realistically for those
kind of low quality semi-proprietary um surround solutions probably more like it um they tend to
be a little bit overpriced at msrp but if you can get them on clearance they can actually be a
pretty great deal um so we started with one of those and showed that even for $40 on like a
marketplace site like craigslist or facebook marketplace yeah we could absolutely obliterate
this thing we we were unflinching in our acknowledgement of the the inconvenience and and
the wiring mess um that was another thing man i saw people like defending soundbar super hard for
the ease of use and i'm like guys we we acknowledged that so directly that i i just um
i i just i don't know uh i don't i don't know how i don't know how we can acknowledge it more
we we stepped it up by upgrading our left and rights so that you know particularly for
watching anything with music in it which is like all content we could get a bit better of a of a
soundtrack experience uh we upgraded our amplifier or maybe we upgraded the amplifier before we changed
this be whatever we but we got a cheap avr um and with the intention not of using it for video
switching because you can't use an older one for video switching if you want to run like uh you
know a modern 4k display or whatever the case may be so we got an old amp and old amps like
they they're they're still great amplifiers if you buy something that was decent 10 years ago
15 years ago you can still get a really nice amplifier um and then you just don't run your
video through it which for most people is fine because your tv is probably going to have anywhere
from two on the very very low end to four inputs anyway so you just run everything through there
and then uh we added a subwoofer and then we added some cheap towers that we got and the final
configuration was probably around 240 dollars compared to the Bose tv speaker which is 250
dollars um and our our point was just and and there were so many tech tips along the way i guess
is what i'm trying to get to here sort of talking about speaker impedance best practices uh talking
about uh what you can do if you don't have eark support on your receiver so talking about optical
connections and the and the good things about it and the limitations of it um and i uh i think
honestly past a certain view count there just isn't really room for it um maybe i'm being too
doomer about this i would like to think that i'm being too doomer about this but i i don't
necessarily think i am i think a pretty good example of this of maybe michael reeves when you
look at some of michael reeves videos if i remember correctly um his very early videos he talked more
about the programming that was involved and showed more of it and these days it's usually like a
comical montage where sections of the code like fly past the screen uh like it's it's it's different
people don't actually care i know there was there was like if you think about old youtube
there was a lot of videos that were like tutorials on how to do something and then the people that
were making the tutorials on how to do something videos realized that no one was actually doing it
they were just watching them for the content so they tried to push entertainment and it started
leaving the actual tutorial space there's some really good insight in Floatplane chat um
like some people are saying yeah i really liked it to be clear i mean 900 000 plus people watched
and like the like this like ratio is fine like it's not like people are hating on it i'm just
trying to figure out how to make like like someone someone here said uh where is their comment um
maybe it was just not that great of a video um can we just move on well no no no no no no no
the point is like i'm trying to figure out how to make this more accessible because i want people
to save money like that's why that's why we do this in the that's why we started doing this in
the first place right is is bringing the people tech tips and we want to do it in an entertaining
way but but we want we want to we want to like help um so i so i'm trying to like figure this out
why does being critical of the content uh me in the video was bad okay no no there's
hold on there's there's some there's some really good there's some really good comments uh on it
so some people are saying in my area marketplace especially for this kind of stuff is kind of
terrible i sometimes have to travel a couple hours for deal on gaming computers yeah well
that that's a thing like that's a thing here too yeah and and we but we acknowledge the time
spent in it and i think that like that mindset of like sort of bargain hunting is is what we're
trying to get across so maybe that's something that we need to acknowledge more directly is like
hey this has a cost in time like do you think that's something that would help
maybe um um i don't know what was that not explained uh come bets and bulls and says i found
it a bit hard to get what the point of the video was i felt like it was a little bit all over the
place so maybe it's something where we need a bit of a better summary or we need a couple other
comments like that we need more like visuals to kind of drive it along uh board aga i think probably
has the best comment i've seen on it so far i bet the same video would have blown up if you'd
done five versus fifty versus five hundred dollar home theater speaker set up and that is that is
that is probably the best maybe we just should uh maybe we should maybe we should revisit it
and like keep that same stuff get a five dollar option we've already got our fifty dollar option
we upgrade our our two hundred fifty dollar option a little bit we take it to five hundred
bucks we get a five thousand dollar option and then we like contact some we contact clips or
something and we like borrow crazy yeah we borrow like a fifty thousand dollar option and then we
just we do we do it again um postman says as an av professional i really enjoyed the video
in the journey i guess maybe that's maybe that's the thing is maybe maybe the journey is too hard
to follow along maybe like simplifying the format to like five versus fifty versus five hundred
is is the way to go i did see a fair amount of comments on like maybe there should have been a
better explainer at the beginning uh because i didn't understand what the what the video was about
telesco says you called everyone out for making the worst choice you made your audience but hurt
i'm in this tweet and don't like it that's probably a good point too like are we so then
is part of this that people are watching tech tips just to be just to know their choice was
validated as opposed to we've known that forever that has been true i can know something i can
know something cognitively without fully we've legit talked about that being willing to accept
that ncix that makes me sad though yeah i know but why aren't we allowed to say hey this thing
that's super popular is not that great like man do you remember when probably about like nine years
ago at h m fifties these garbage headphones like popped off in popularity because of some some
like i don't know they just they got a lot of attention let's just say they got a lot of
attention for a little while and you and i were both kind of sitting there going like what what
like people buy these because they're disposable rubbish that's why they use them in the studio
not because they're good what is happening right now um and i i do genuinely think if we had come
out and made a video when that trend took off that was like the at h m fifties are not very good
and people need to stop buying them we probably would have just gotten destroyed i think it's
one of the two you either are right after or are the turn of the tide or you get slaughtered
one of the two if you're the turn of the tide then your video is going to explode
but if people aren't ready for it yet so you're not the turn of the tide then we'll just crap on
you isaac v says it was hard to follow you scrambled a lot of parts and i didn't really get what was
happening um by the way i would like a lot more technical details and what they're about okay well
so those two things are definitely not going to work together um a ton more technical details
is uh is going to make it a little harder to follow i can i can i can promise you that
but i do agree that kind of like in the last scrapyard wars where we we went back we basically
sent the edit back to the kitchen you never saw the original no i sent the edit back to the kitchen
i said look you guys take however much time you need and make sure that we have these on-screen
visuals that make it really clear what parts we have now what we've added what we're subtracting
who we're negotiating with and and where the money stands and even then one prominent viewer
couldn't figure out that i was never at a negative balance so yes that's in spite of our best
efforts in spite of our best efforts you were shifty says i totally watch reviews for things
i've already bought and that's that sort of validates your validation seeking i do sometimes
too but it's not necessarily it's like kind of to see where it's at if that makes sense um and
there's there's products where like you know i'll do some research on it i'll buy it i'll try it out
and i'm like yeah like it's it's working but you know it's not 100 and then i'll see some new
product comes out it'll get compared against that new product and then i'll be like oh yeah okay i
probably should have waited this isn't great like i i allow my opinion to be changed um
or honestly i'll sometimes buy something someone will review it against something else and say
that it's crap versus the thing that they like and i'll be like yeah i just don't agree but like
that's fine tim says there was a bit of difficulty when you were between the two systems like you
had the center channel from this one but the receiver from another one i had a bit of difficulty
knowing where the value was halfway through but it all kind of came together at the end and i think
that is probably another like gold star good comment um because i still make videos with the
intention that people watch the whole thing i know better than that yeah yeah you almost have to
make like multiple videos you almost yeah you need to have like the pay off pay off pay off pay off
and it kind of it kind of kills 20 viewer video the 40 percent viewer video the 60
percent viewer video you can never have like where's he going with this it always just has
to be very clear and that's something that is easy for me to forget because i've always kind of hard
to write for i imagine um yes and no i mean that that five versus 50 versus 500 format kind of flows
yeah sure so yeah i guess you kind of have to shoehorn into a format that works for it or it
might be more difficult to write for i suspect that's okay um sock had to be says the established
tiers seemed to borrow stuff from the others a bit too much which made it harder to follow for
some reason yep i think that's i think that's very fair uh in fairness to me i didn't source the
stuff and so i didn't know exactly how it was all going to go together um so i was kind of i was
kind of working with um with what i had but it's that's really that's really valid and i think
that's something that i and the like the content team could have worked on ahead of time to make
it more accessible by having like a a well understood format i think that's what it basically
boils down to is we could have done a better job visually of showing exactly what it was we were
doing and having a better established format wouldn't hurt i also think that some people
kind of got fixated on details that didn't matter i saw i saw some people talking about how well i
don't even have a home theater room and it's like well no that's that's not the point we're shooting
in here because it's really convenient um but you could do this anywhere and and i think a lot of
people kind of missed that um oh okay yeah i'm looking into booking a ride right now lieutenant
salty the video was important too many people have crappy soundbars and have no idea what they're
missing yeah i mean that was why we did it i thought it was a really important video um
mantisa says are you just focusing too much on a loud minority no because the whole point of this
is is that last thing that i just read so many people have the wrong thing and like need to hear
this and it might not work for everybody not everybody has the space not everybody has the
wife acceptance factor to be able to you know put a bunch of random speakers they found on craigslist
and in their living space right like it's not going to be applicable to everyone but i do
think that before you make that decision you should be well informed that's it i want people
to make informed decisions and that was why we made that video like if you're interested in tech
like like if you're interested in tech if you don't have a tv even i think it can still be an
interesting journey to see what someone would do to set up that type of a system yeah because
surely you might have friends and you want to you want to be the knowledgeable tech expert in
your group i assume right like i'm i think so right okay all right why don't we jump into
our next topic traffic's looking good i can leave slightly later
why we weren't able to say more oh all right great let's do it let's do another
topic like that hooray um so a lot of people last week were upset frustrated disappointed
that we weren't able to say more about the channel hiatus is last week and there are two main reasons
number one is that it's the law um and and it's funny i ended up kind of in exchanges with a
couple of people where i i said that and they were like yeah but and i was like no there is no
yeah but yeah it is just the law about certain things it's it's completely inflexible i cannot
disclose literally anything about someone else's personal life including their employment status
i was just gonna say and and to be honest for good reason sometimes it would be nice if you could
but that the law should exist and that's number two because it's like the right thing to do um
like let's say let's say hypothetically that you were no longer at your job tomorrow whether you
quit or you were laid off or you were fired sort of immaterial um during your exit interview the
hr manager asks you hey do you mind if we talk about the circumstances on our podcast
you would think they lost their f***ing minds right but that is what a not insignificant
number of people were asking me to do to be fair about me in particular i wouldn't necessarily
think that but it would still be the law yes um and it doesn't matter how much anyone externally
feels like they're entitled to it they're not yeah they're not entitled to it 100 um i saw
some suggestions that we just provide information about the folks that we're parting amicably with
for example nope well we always try to part amicably but it's not always possible and the issue there
is that if we acknowledge some folks and not others it's pretty easy to do the the math um simple
deductive logic and then uh and then the conjecture starts right we used to talk about stuff way more
like we'd bring people onto the podcast on their last day or like nick van berkel for example is
an example uh he for example is an example yeah he he made like a like a farewell video on channel
super fun um but what we've realized over time is that it's not a sustainable practice because
as soon as there isn't a farewell video or an announcement or whatever the case may be
people start speculating and the and the the rumor mill spins so much faster than we can possibly
respond to any of it um i also saw some folks that were asking for way more detail about the business
decision side of things again though let's put yourself in their shoes okay luke you are no
longer working on a project okay and someone else who has a way louder megaphone than you
goes and talks about whatever it is that led for your project to be shelved or canceled or whatever
else do you think that do you think that would reflect on you a little bit possibly maybe yes
it could it could affect uh future employment potential um it it would it would be a blow to
morale immediately for sure i would be frustrated about that because like there's almost no way
that they're going to say everything and there's no way that we're gonna say
like we if something got canceled right almost certainly there was something that went wrong
with it at some point in some way uh or right so so if i were to say like hey um we're gonna talk
about all of the uh completely unsustainable practices at Floatplane that led for it to be
shelved nice you're gonna be like excuse me yeah um and and then and then right it creates this
like this this background drama um well you were supposed to be the business ARM
exactly exactly which you know is valid um also Floatplane is not unsustainable yeah the reason
we're using luke as an example and the reason we're using his project as an example is just
illustrative yeah it's to show you guys why these conversations don't take place in public and
shouldn't and just because we've made mistakes in the past doesn't mean that we should just
continue to make them in the name of like what morbid curiosity like that's not that's not a
good reason um so i'm really sorry to have disappointed some of you um looking at the
comments from last week's WAN Show quite a few members of our community were extremely upset
and i think that a big part of that is on me i should have explained this in more detail
i i do this thing sometimes where i think that stuff is sort of self-evident um and and it's
not because people live in all kinds of different places around the world where where laws and
norms are different people come from all different walks of life people have their own value systems
so to me this one was obvious based on all the experience that i've had doing it the other way
and seeing what an absolute cluster f*** it is um you guys don't have that experience so you didn't
know um this isn't a choice that helps i don't benefit from not offering explanations or justifications
for the actions of our team or our company that that that doesn't help me uh when the rumor mill
swirls because i can't give additional details about something i don't benefit guys um but it is a
choice that is designed not for my benefit not for your benefit it's designed to minimize the
impact on our team members both current and former don't expect this policy to be altered going forward
because you'd be wrong cool good chat yeah do you want to talk about uh full screen ads for
co-pilot plus pcs on Windows 10 so sick this is pretty cool microsoft is aggressively prompting
Windows 10 users to upgrade employing full screen ads that highlight Windows 11 features
particularly those on co-pilot plus pcs these ads coincide with the approaching end of free
security updates for Windows 10 in october 2025 while an extended security update or esu program
exists for a fee the ads predominantly push new pc purchases this aggressive marketing tactic
isn't new for microsoft they've used similar methods for past os upgrades sometimes just forcing
them on you anyways and users can still upgrade to Windows 11 directly on compatible pcs as an
alternative discussion question is where's the limit every mainstream non-Linux operating system
and even some of the Linux based ones would fall under the definition of adware at this point uh
yeah yeah definitely where's my iphone here hold on i haven't used macOS do they have ads baked
into macOS i have i have literally check this out hold on hold on hold on well i've used macOS but
not active give me a sec check this out i didn't notice any i have i have left them because i wanted
to i wanted to remember how many there were i have macOS doesn't have ads so that's not that's
not correct i have three macOS never prompts you to like buy iCloud are you sure uh no what i'm
saying okay fair enough what i'm saying is okay uh Windows has other ads well here it bakes in ads
from everybody it's not even just their own stuff yeah i i'm sorry but i don't i don't i don't have
i don't think there's i don't draw a distinction that's fair enough um okay so uh so on iOS right
now my apple account suggestions i have three persistent notifications in my settings app for
this um my iphone's not backed up okay that's valid however my second notification is your iphone can't
be backed up upgrade for a dollar 29 a month and then my third notification is some iCloud data
isn't syncing which again is related to me not having enough storage with the which they have
kindly offered to solve for me for money um and then i have i mean that is how that would work i have
three well no they could allow me to quickly leave free back up to my nas or my computer remember
you do that in another way remember probably back i mean maybe but i don't have i don't have an
ad from apple about that apple doesn't notify me that that's a possibility uh so is this in your
settings thing or yeah i don't know it's right it's my well no i i got notifications for them at
some point okay okay and then i have uh i have three notifications for services included with
purchase let's see what do i have i get apple tv free for three months uh i get apple news plus
so it's the purchase of the phone yeah but of course i'm gonna have to sign up for a subscription
that is going to it's a very generous three months thank you very much for after my you know
eleven hundred or twelve hundred dollar phone or whatever this is um but uh i'm gonna end up
i'm gonna end up with subscriptions at some point um yeah well people are really mad about you uh
i bet about you thinking that like they shouldn't offer or okay hold on hold on hold on okay guys
no no no i am not i am not necessarily saying that apple should be well no i think i i think
they should be be forced to to present me with with uh with an with an alternative option
no actually no i do you know what i do think that uh one person's just particularly mad because
apple's limit has been five gigs basically forever and they've done that intentionally knowing that
you're gonna have to buy yeah but they don't have to provide that no but i think the thing that's
i think the thing that is bad is that they they don't give me a free alternative if they're
gonna give you a native notification yes and not give a free alternative that's pretty annoying
if it's just in your settings thing and it's like hey you could do this that's not too big of a deal
to me personally well it's giving you notifications yeah it breaks that line especially because they
used to you used to be able to quickly and easily just plug a cable into your computer and back up
to itunes yeah yeah but no they want you to buy cloud storage now um people are saying you can
back up your phone over usb still so i guess the frustrating thing is just that they aren't presenting
that oh apparently apple's being sued over this in the uk oh that's hilarious okay so i was uh
yeah you can still use itunes so that's good they just don't tell you so back to what i said
in the beginning i think they should present you with the free option yeah cool rather than just
saying hey oh no oh my god your iphone's not backed up buy storage buy cloud storage from us
mm wow good guy uk good job
well that's a valid reason to want usb 3 on the iphone i actually didn't really think about that
when we uh when we talked about the um the original implementation of USB-C on the iphone 15 family
i didn't think about faster backups with the pro versions that have uh i believe it's 5 gigabit per
second right is it five or ten i think it's five pixel pixel bugs you to buy drive storage um
but one kind of point that i will give to them and i don't know if iOS does this
is it will also suggest that you like delete old photos that it thinks are like just of garbage
if it's like like a parking location or something that you like it doesn't think you need anymore
it'll be like hey you can get rid of all this stuff or like hey you haven't opened this app in
like a year you should just uninstall it like it'll give you suggestions on reducing your
the amount of data that you have which i think is kind of neat but they do try to push you to
buy more kumo star in Floatplane chat made a really good point what's really ridiculous is
they've had time time machine on macOS for like a bazillion years and didn't ever let you do that
on the iphone there is absolutely no reason from like an ecosystem user experience standpoint
that i shouldn't be able to just arrive at home and my iphone shouldn't just wi-fi sync to my time
machine that i literally already have because i literally already have a mac apparently apple
does that too i don't know i don't use iOS i wasn't saying in contrast to apple i was just
saying that i do like that they do that it to be clear we started this segment with
every mainstream operating system yeah is functionally adware now yeah um and it's it's
really frustrating apparently you can wi-fi sync to itunes well why not like why not time machine
is there a reason to not be able to do that to my nas that supports time machine
i don't know man i just
it just it doesn't seem it doesn't seem intuitive no one's fighting that deep blue
deep blue says at luke why does the pixel not prompt me to add a different cloud account
like draw box or next plow when i don't have enough drive storage i'm not i'm not defending google
this isn't this isn't man you start talking about Android or iOS and people just immediately
this isn't a wi-fi sync to itunes versus the other is apparently not automatic
and archangel of death says it would be too convenient of an alternative to buying more
iclad yes yes that's that's the whole point that that's what we're trying to say also i don't want
to back up to my desktop pc because i don't want to have a raid array in my desktop pc i want to
back up to my nas i want to use time machine like if i was an apple user that is what i would
want i would want it to go to time machine that would be sick what's also super time machine is
cool time machine has always been cool to be honest it is so cool and it's like it's not even
it's one of those things that's not even like unique like snapshot based backup tools existed
for billion years it's good and it's integrated yeah um and the only reason for them to not build
a good integrated thing is so that they can sell you their own storage solution their own cloud
storage yeah um anyway this is super cool this is the last thing that we really need to talk about
before you go have you seen the land party house i was wondering if you were gonna see this yes i
have what the heck you should like go or something i would actually love to the way pretty cool dude
the way that this room folds up dude it's so sick and yeah you can so so closed station to the right
it just looks like the wall and you can see so the the doors at the bottom support the desk like
oh man this is so really cool incredibly thoughtful ddr panels under the floor this is so
using them later cool um the upstairs office we can game here too yeah and there's uh there's
keyboard like uh what looks like uh pull out keyboard trays or no that might just be keyboard
storage i'm not sure because this one's just kind of sitting here like even better than that
that is so cool flip up monitors that is wild oh wait yeah yeah yeah wow so that was literally
a keyboard you saw they just flip it up that is so cool this is just extra i hadn't looked through
the whole thing pre-show because i wanted to i wanted to do it live cable management
stealthy stealthy absolutely love it killer conduit look at this look at this they've got
actual like cable trays up in the ceiling just like you'd have in like a data center call rooms
like they're in an office look at this that's so sick look at this this is hilarious 20 identical
machines personal desktops door leads to the hot side oh my goodness this is so cool dude it's
wicked this is so cool apparently it was like a million dollars yeah uh e-gads this photo has
made a lot of network engineers angry oh because they're not using a patch panel response in the
q and a okay yeah this was a mistake i'm a software guy yeah okay sounds good got you got you
two gigabit per second fiber in it this is crazy look at this can you imagine like working at the
you know the micro center when someone comes in like hey i'll take everything yeah thank you
how many uh i'd like to i'd like to buy a 40 70 how many yes yeah um that was i guarantee you that
was funny so assembly yeah man look at this space i it's just so it's so enticing yeah
beautiful the house has normal parts too yeah i'd love to see it
dude look at this yep cat door leads into the kids bedrooms i love it i i have wanted to do this
since before we moved into our new place like little cat shelves and stuff on the wall i just
haven't gotten around to it apparently one of their parents is like um like works in architectural
design or something sorry cloud flare oh no no no no that oh i understand yeah and and kind of
helped with this and has like designed some pretty cool stuff got a couple work from home call rooms
clearly it does a good job cat restrooms like really man seriously though if i were to design
my own house from scratch i would 100 do it if you never have to look at it and smell it
like man cats are like the best pets ever the worst thing about them is the litter
dude so cool oh it's space under the stairwells dude i could totally convert one of those spaces
in my place to uh to a cat bathroom dude the downstairs one definitely i should do that and
the and the main stairwell i could totally make a little door in there and i don't know how humans
would access it but cats definitely could um a couple guest rooms dude this roof deck like what
like freaking what oh yeah amazing um yeah super super cool project i i would love to
come check it out i'm in i'm inviting i'm inviting myself to to go do a tour i mean honestly i think
they already did like a great job of doing a tour of the place but i still would love to just check
it out and get out over it yeah incredible someone one upped my host land center oh yeah it's a great
title yeah yeah it's a great title slightly better than they also they didn't one up it they like six
kind of smashed it yeah a little bit yeah like i didn't even think about other people in my family
just keeps going they're like oh you thought we had one land center yeah what about second
crazy i love it so sick i'm i'm i'm it's impressive to see anyone that dedicated to
pretty much anything yeah and because it happens to be something that i think is super cool and i'm
also into uh it's that much cooler yeah i think they did an amazing amazing job of their setup
uh do you need to go you you you're like getting pretty anxious here so that that's fine get get
out of here okay get out of here uh the topics what do you want to yeah i'll finish off the topics
and then we can do a couple merge messages that i guess it'll just be me and you then
let's see yep that i am there's only a couple i'm so excited for this Android will apparently
finally be able to instantly log you into your apps on new devices this has been a huge pain
point for me because i have so many like accounts and and two factors and dependencies that i basically
cannot use a phone until probably three or four hours after i first start setting it up
and it's annoying because for my job i switch phones a lot more than probably most people
and i have like i have like i get like anxiety when i need to switch phones google has announced
restore credentials which will allow apps to seamlessly log users into their accounts on
new Android device after user restores their apps and data from a previous device oh if they
can do it in a way that's like secure that's yeah i'm so that's why i started looking at this
weird i'm so excited i just can't hide it i think this particularly for reviewers is going to be
amazing the user experience should be as if they had already been using the new device they would
even receive notifications from apps that have not yet been opened on the new device how it works
signing into an app on the old device will create a restore key which is stored locally and backed
up to the cloud apps can opt out of cloud backup you dare the restore key is a public key compatible
pass key slash phyto two back ends and uses the same server side implementation as pass keys
when setting up the new device the user can restore data from a cloud backup or transfer
data locally why is google doing this is a question here i i i don't care i'm not asking that it's
great am i am i this is counter my rant about google early in the show not doing anything this
is innovation i am like this is actually pretty cool so excited about this okay my ride's gonna be
here in two minutes i'm gonna go according to the Android developer blog 40 percent of people in
the us reset or replace their smartphone every year that's a big one forget even like getting a new
phone the number of device manufacturers where you're like hey i'm having a problem and their
immediate response is to heart to reset the phone it's like do you have any idea how much
f***ing work homework you just gave me resetting my phone that sucks resetting your device
sucks huh anyway um they say that making the process of logging back into apps on a new
phone much faster and easier will help avoid app abandonment and user churn okay well that part
of it i'm not that into if it's just to like make sure i keep paying my subscriptions like a good
little boy but um whatever i still love it um oh hold on the Android developer blog apparently
the 40 percent is probably an overestimate our notes here say that's probably incorrect various
statistics have it more like 10 to 20 max but anyway i'm in that 10 to 20 percent and so i'm
extremely extremely excited about this and i i can't overstate how excited i am about it
our last topic which i'm less excited about is microsoft ignite 2024 there's some good stuff
microsoft announced the Windows resiliency initiative quick machine recovery allows it
admins to remotely apply fixes to pcs that can't boot so this is in response to the crowd strike
issue earlier this year Windows 11 enterprise now supports hot patching in public preview
no reboot required okay that is pretty cool administrator protection standard users can
temporarily gain admin privileges by authenticating with Windows hello and more and then next up we've
got the Windows 365 link this is a little less exciting a 350 edge pc that only serves as a client
to access a Windows 365 cloud pc it supports dual 4k monitors has four usb ports an Ethernet port
Wi-Fi 6e and bluetooth 5.3 will be available in april 2025 my only question is why does this
need to exist in a world where the mac mini also exists cloud powered performance the mac mini is
a rip and fast pc for yes more but i would say considering that it is a full fat like awesome
pc for that price is a lot more compelling but hey we'll see how it goes we'll see how it goes
microsoft also announced new ai-powered customizable co-pilot agents that are rolling out in microsoft
365 aka office like the facilitator agent which can take real-time notes during teams meetings
and chats which is in public preview now we use a third party tool for that so this is actually
kind of useful for us interpreter agent which provides real-time speech to speech interpretation
during meetings even optionally simulating the user's voice public preview in early 2025 and
an employee self-service agent which can answer common policy questions and facilitate tasks
related to hr and it okay maybe i'm maybe i'm getting more excited it was just the it was just
the Windows 365 link that i was like because microsoft 365 is all co-pilotified microsoft is
adding a little co-pilot badges to the app icons for word excel powerpoint etc and best of all
they're changing the microsoft 365 logo to something pretty similar to the co-pilot logo
but with an m 365 badge this is a terrible logo um huh oh wow it says please watch this 10-second
clip with audio to hear ignite attendees if the enthusiasm for this change sure you've got some
audio playing some mute uh something else first uh yeah i will do that give me one sec i i i would
imagine they're gonna sound about like what i just sounded like looking at that logo i i had not um
i had not seen that yet and it is not very good here we go all right 10 second clip then should
it work yep okay here we go icon to the new microsoft 365 co-pilot icon
oh boy
wow oh that was the shortest oh polite applause that i think i have ever heard at a keynote
wow uh this last part is actually super cool also rolling out now for meta quest 3 and 3s users
these is the ability to access a local or cloud-based Windows instance and interact with multiple
virtual monitors whoo that's uh that's looking pretty cool and comes at a much lower price than
an apple vision pro and a macbook so uh i can see people being pretty stoked on that one as well good
gravy was that ever savage though wow i i think i might even even as much as i don't like it i
think i could probably muster a little bit more fake enthusiasm than that yikes all right why don't
we switch over to when after dark mr Dan besser can do whoa we need to switch the wanshow to this
time forever our concurrence on youtube are like 15 percent 20 percent higher than usual that's
20 higher than usual that's higher than of very high i'm showing 16 oh never there we go
everybody stop watching uh yeah yeah we should do that oh man i don't want to get up early on
fridays though me too this sucks uh it's actually 5000 youtube is there's an error uh yeah yeah it's
a reporting error reporting the dashboard is broken um exactly oh crap okay you know what's
funny is we always did it at the later time because and i don't want to make anyone else
feel unappreciated but we always did it at the later time because um the australian crew was like
so into being able to catch wanshow and so vocal about it that we picked the afternoon on fridays
because it would be um not a work night for the east coast in north america so they could kind of
stay up and watch it and it would be uh in the morning for the australians to watch and we've
just kind of we just kind of um we our european audience was a lot less vocal and a lot a lot
smaller back then and so we have we have always been kind of aussie uh aussie accommodating and
maybe it's because i don't know maybe it's because i kind of think of australians as probably one of
the closest cultures to canada um maybe i felt like some kinship you know we're both kind of like
they're like sorry but with spiders yeah we're still kind of commonwealth but like you know
kind of f**king charles you know like i don't know we just always kind of seemed
we always kind of seemed on the same page about things but um
yeah this is wow this is a this is a lot um this is a lot uh a lot higher viewership than
usual i hadn't looked at the analytical i hadn't either yeah no this is uh concerning
huh outlier um okay uh yeah maybe you know oh well i'm not promising anything because
the work week is very challenging here in a lot of ways and i'm often mentally
really tired like i to be clear i don't think that i work a hard manual labor job or anything
like that but it can be mentally very exhausting and uh early morning on my on my fridays is not
my favorite time to have to be like on for two to four hours now that's another thing too is
doing it at the end of the workday on friday means that we can just kind of like not disturb
anybody and we can go for as long as we need to until we're blocking like three or four sets
right now yeah you can't do a ShortCircuit nobody can come in the building we can't do
TechLinked nobody can be upstairs uh why do you keep moving yourself you're the you're my only
co-host right now down oh yeah i keep forgetting about that uh i should try and move the camera
over slightly if i can do that but it might not be a terrible idea anyway yeah so okay i didn't
consider that so it definitely won't be any changes anytime soon but um yeah i'm definitely
i'm definitely liking y'all hanging out with us that's pretty cool it's kind of fun all right
want to hit me with uh a handful of merch messages and then i guess we should get out of people's
way yeah probably uh let's see with graphics card running hotter and the 4090 already being a 60
millimeter thick will we eventually see tower coolers as standard would you consider janking
one together for a current or next gen i mean dude i i would a a few short years ago i would have
said no that's just a silly mod that people do and uh we're always gonna need to keep our slots open
for additional add-in cards and then what add-in cards do people even install anymore what are we
supposed to like most motherboards like they they high-end motherboards this is a funny thing it
used to be pisses me off so much dude remember remember when high-end motherboards had more
PCIe slots yeah i will pay more for extra because i need a lot of pc i card sometimes yeah now it's
like one yeah basic boards especially like matx matx is one that drives me absolutely bonkers
because the high-end ones will remove PCIe slots but they're not even full-size atx board so they
don't have like five or six m dot two slots on them so i'm sitting here going what did you do with
the lanes why am i paying extra for this if you're not putting like a plx chip on it and giving me
all the slots what what happened basic matx boards have all the slots what's happening here um exactly
and so uh yeah now that this trend of people only install GPU's in their systems because GPU's cost
so much we can't afford other cards just not the not the real reason they're but i don't know it might
be a contributor um i don't know i mean what i will say is that i wouldn't be surprised if 5090
coolers are about the same size as 4090 coolers even with the rumored increase in TDP and the reason
for that is that the rumor is that 4090 coolers were designed for a much higher TDP because
NVIDIA kind of rug pulled the their board partners on what the exact heat output of the card was
going to be so i don't think they're going to get bigger in the next generation but with that said
man i don't think anything's off the table anymore oh man dude how cool would it be Dan if we had uh
oh i guess i should look this way at you even though you're physically over there yeah sure that
works uh oh my goodness uh how cool would it be if we had a standard where you're kind of like the
old trashcan mac pro right where you've got your CPU socket and then you've got your GPU and the
die is on the top and you could just do like a gigantic combo cooler and then just have like
front to back airflow that goes right through it uh yeah i'd like that or that'd be sick like you
could have your CPU cooler here and then maybe another thing that kind of wraps around it yeah
so you can still remove them or you could move the CPU socket more to the right of the board
yeah uh and then you could um because you'd have such a large cooler like a GPU even though it kicks
out so much heat is a larger die it's easier to move the heat away from so you could cool your
smaller die CPU where you really need that temperature differential between the the air
and the and the fins um or rather and and the and the and the processor itself and then you
could take that semi heated air blow that through like a big a large cooler for the GPU so you could
you could either do them serial or you could do them uh like split like you could have the CPU on
the one side and the GPU on the one side and then you could just have like a tunnel that you're
blowing air down that kind of cools each on both sides or i think probably the most effective
design would be like the trash can which really did a great job of cool of removing that much
heat for its size and for its noise and then you would just have like heat pipes coming off the GPU
heat pipes coming off the CPU into this like a great big fin stack that would be freaking cool
and maybe we should start seeing like you know CPU chips just come as a chip when can we get
GPU's that do that oh it's never gonna happen i know it would be never gonna happen i think i think
what pisses me off mostly about the new motherboards these days is again yeah like a pc i lanes um
pc i gen five came out all the boards put it on it it has like a thousand pc i gen four lanes
what speed do uh GPU's run out Linus it's pc i gen four times eight for now for now for now
i i would like to see i'd like to see the desktop use the additional bandwidth of pc i gen five
differently i would actually rather than see a pc i e by 16 GPU slot i would like to see
everyone get together and kind of go hey can we all acknowledge that 16 current generation lanes
is utterly unnecessary and can we start putting 8x slots as our primary GPU slot and using those
lanes somewhere else having more slots having more i o having more more storage ports you know i i i
put the new consumer the pc i five came out i need the new nice big thing that's the new number
right well hold on there is i see pc i gen four times x you know i've got a mother board that
has seven pc i slots uh i know what i'm buying average consumer sees top of the line board
pc i gen five they know that it they don't know that the GPU's don't even run at the speeds i have
a justification down i have a justification for this go for it if i still had a 16x slot right
pc i gen five by 16 and a pc i e gen six card comes out right i could take that i could put it in
my gen five slot and i'd still be getting half of its total theoretical bandwidth if we move to
buy eight interfaces um i will be getting now and we get like a 16x card and i put it in my 8x
slot that's a gen old i will be getting a quarter of the theoretical bandwidth which could actually
impact performance another thing um a lot of the CPU and north bridge like lanes are shared
if i put too many NVMe drives in it disables pc i slots if i put too many SATA drives in it disables
pc i slots what if you just give me eight slots on the board and then we can adjust which ones are
active or not dude server boards like that's kind of what i'm talking about right that's basically
how they work now is you don't even have slots on them they just have those little um what what's
that mini whatever connector called uh Jake sent me the wildest looking board that was pretty i think
it was from asrock rack where it just had no slots on it and just the entire bottom of the
board was covered in those uh those pc i e riser connectors and i was like oh my gosh that's so cool
because then you can you just design your chassis around that and you just like carry pc i e wherever
you want it storage devices GPU's basically uh that would be super nice like taking the pc i standard
to its logical conclusion and just making everything like an head in card yeah not oculink
it's it's the it's the newer one i i it's it's escaping me right now um i have no idea yeah i
can't remember no it's not oculink oh yeah bifurcation is another huge thing i've got a quad
m dot two drive thing in there adding cable cost though is gonna is gonna kill the deal
on consumer like for servers yes but not for not for yeah but it gives manufacturers
the opportunity to sell more dongles yeah i mean the end of the dongles like it they'll love it
they'll push it for just that i think case it would really change case design that would be
that would be super cool if all of a sudden you could kind of like creatively mount
cards anywhere but looking at how little adoption we've seen for for pc i e risers like it's still
niche in the small form factor space or like the vertical mounts like it's still i would say
at most probably one percent of pc's if you factor in pre-builds probably less like i i just
don't think most people are going to be willing to absorb that additional that additional cost
probably not all right what what else we got today okay thanks for the early show now i can
watch it work since i work in a data center myself i love that video tour uh was there anything that
you learned that you want to apply to your home's pool loop uh those leak detection cords are super
cool like being able to know exactly where it is but but no um the the cost of implementing
things the way that they do them is why we didn't do it that way it's not because we like didn't
think of it uh it's yeah it's super cool to like see it all done right i'd say the one thing that
we are legitimately considering because we've had multiple power outages here at the office in
the last couple of weeks because of storms in the in the southwestern bc area is diesel generator
backups uh we're getting pretty darn tired of our power going out um but like we can't afford to
have you know an on-site you know fuel purifier and like so it's going to be someone's job to
micromanage like making sure we have non-stale diesel fuel on site all the time and i'm just
looking at it going we can barely keep our our snackies drawers stocked because and and that's
not because you know people like you know do a bad job or something it's just because like we've
we've got a lot going on and it's easy for it's easy for just in case we need it stuff to fall
by the wayside when something else is happening right so i i understand especially if you can't
even keep snackies in stock which are extremely visible oh yeah you know okay you know you know
why the snackies aren't in stock right now yeah canada post strike casco relies on them for
delivery so we don't have snackies right now like i think our i think our shipment is like
one of those limbo shipments where it started before the strike ended and then or before the
strike started and then didn't get completed or something i i don't know exactly why i'm
piecing this together someone told me that it's to do with the canada post strike and i read an
article about how some things are stuck in limbo so i made some assumptions i connected some dots
but basically it's something to do with the canada post strike what we'll call the moldies now
instead of snackies because it's just been in a warehouse for the last month and a half thanks
Dan um let's see last one i've got here for you hello gents i think my last merch message went
astray yes it did i'm sorry about that i own a zx spectrum uk competitor to the commodore 64
do you think keyboard computers could ever make a comeback love max um no the keyboard is has become
such a personal choice like even and i'm not even talking about the people for whom their keyboard is
is their their purest expression of their self you know um i'm talking about just
a low profile high profile numpad no numpad uh positioning of various keys uh keyboards have
become such a personal choice that i i feel like integrating them into a device would be a fundamental
error of the greatest magnitude um like even even mobile devices right like they they come with a
keyboard but you can absolutely switch it out for a different keyboard a different layout different
functionality if you want um i just i i don't i don't see us making a return to this and sure
yes okay you could make it modular kind of like what framework did on the framework 16
but again i look at what an outlier the framework 16 is as a laptop with you know a slim modular
keyboard um more modularity is absolutely absolutely not the direction that the industry
is going and i wouldn't expect that trend to reverse anytime soon yeah uh randall we don't
have no plans for a like a formal tool bag at this time nothing's impossible but there's nothing
happening at this time and i think that's it for the wancho it feels bizarre doesn't it to be done
wancho like yeah and then go for lunch again just what do i do i don't know i like i feel like
my day's over and it's time to go home like this is like like like salivation condition response
right now yeah i'm ready i'm gonna i'm sleepy i'm ready to go to bed yeah because like i was talking
to sammy about this i've had maybe three or four like single hand friday nights off in 10 years
not even exaggerating um so i'm like will i just go and like
stare at the ceiling all evening yeah because i because i take my my meds too early this morning
and i'm wired i told my kids i told my kids that i'm coming home at a reasonable time and they were
like why i was like well i'm why do you lie to us daddy yeah i know i was like oh we're doing
wancho in the morning they're like why i'm like because luke has to catch a flight and they're
like oh i'm like oh okay maybe i guess you guys have plans on friday nights i i don't blame you
i mean i've been absentee dad on friday nights for your entire lives but yeah sure i mean uh cool
have a uk snack or just leave i don't know yeah i mean our branding's all off now we can't have
wancho after dark when it isn't dark it's messed up man everything's messed up i didn't even push the
button oh yeah oh okay well let's do a special let's do a special shout out for dbrand then
who didn't get their uh their their banner interruptions and actually i can i can show you guys
i saw it on the forum oh okay well that's the ridge collaborative product hold on let's wait
let's refresh again and find another collaborative product hello oh our cost goes next came through
ups as of yesterday oh did they okay so it's fixed now then i think they've always come
through ups oh well why did someone tell me it was something to do with canada post then i don't
know blaming you i'm gonna go speak to that person okay do i have to load a new page like what's
what's going on here uh okay hello refresh i thought alt f5 is supposed to do like a full refresh
alt function f5 am i am i just completely derping here Dan
uh on what on alt f5 alt f5 is the thing to refresh the page right i think that's like is
that force refresh well i thought it was i thought is it it's just f5 alt shift f5 i don't know what
the force oh sorry oh yeah i thought it was all is it shift f it's shift f5 good lord for the force
yeah okay i haven't had a reason oh crap i haven't had a reason to force refresh a page in years and
years and years sorry it doesn't happen very often yeah i i don't even know if it works there's no
like indicator that it's actually a force refresh i don't think it's force refreshing because it's
loading it's loading the exact same thing even if i whether i shift you guys are sure it's not
alt control is it control i think sometimes there's like a shortcut that you hit the refresh icon
while holding down a shortcut i don't know if that works okay yeah it seems to be just
not okay LTT backpack available now i'm just going to keep clicking stuff until whatever the point is
we finally launched
oh uh black friday sale ends in 10 hours shop now i don't oh my god i don't care uh okay yeah circuit
board so cool um this apparently is gyro controlled on Android which i thought was pretty neat uh if
you go to um if you go to the the circuit board landing page um there's three different versions
we've got uh dark circuit ShortCircuit and glow circuit and uh it's going pretty good people are
pretty into the design so guys you can you can check that out our skin partner d brand there you
go all right i think that's pretty much it we'll see you guys again next week same bad time same bad
channel oh oh crap what what you should do is we should pull up a video well no no we got this
you got a column yeah i was gonna i was freaking out i don't know what's gonna happen this is uh this
is hilarious for the first little while before i synchronized my contacts on the iphone uh luke
was still in my address book as slick and so i didn't realize that i went to call him with
with voice in my car and i was like call luke laffernier and it's like sorry who i'm like call
slick and it goes through i kind of want to put him back in my address book is that
oh hey bye
all right
I
Have made a terrible mistake. I said same bad time it'll it'll be like the normal time not this time, okay