WEBVTT 00:00:00.000 --> 00:00:05.000 I think the EU is getting all serious about trying to regulate Apple because they're jealous. 00:00:05.000 --> 00:00:09.000 Yeah, trying to regulate the regulator. They're basically doing, they basically want the same things. 00:00:09.000 --> 00:00:12.000 They're regular haters. Regular haters. 00:00:12.000 --> 00:00:19.000 Regular haters. Regular haters. Apple is trying to like, control its user base, make all these rules about how they're like, 00:00:19.000 --> 00:00:23.000 users, they're constituents if you will, or you know, can behave. 00:00:23.000 --> 00:00:26.000 A lot to live, a lot to act, a lot to interact with one another. 00:00:26.000 --> 00:00:29.000 And you got the EU. Trying to do the same thing. 00:00:29.000 --> 00:00:33.000 The same thing except the users are citizens. Its hypocrisy is what it is. 00:00:33.000 --> 00:00:40.000 Yeah. Why can't they be like other governmental jurisdictions and just not make any laws at all? 00:00:40.000 --> 00:00:46.000 Complete laissez faire, just letting people drive on the sidewalks, download whatever they want, 00:00:46.000 --> 00:00:53.000 side loading they call it, sin I say. It's basically like running people down on the sidewalk if you, side loading an app. 00:00:53.000 --> 00:00:58.000 So think about that. This was not condoned by God. 00:00:58.000 --> 00:01:05.000 Mr. I, we're here to talk about Apple and the EU and some of the most recent developments 00:01:05.000 --> 00:01:10.000 last week because this is coming out on Monday, February 19th. 00:01:10.000 --> 00:01:16.000 Last week Apple was let off the hook in regards to iMessage when it comes to 00:01:16.000 --> 00:01:19.000 slapping the rest of the EU, regulating them. 00:01:19.000 --> 00:01:25.000 Well, yeah, sort of. Because like, so the EU is Digital Markets Act. 00:01:25.000 --> 00:01:32.000 Trying to kind of rein in all these tech giants who are operating willy nilly doing whatever the heck they want, 00:01:32.000 --> 00:01:39.000 closing down their ecosystems, behaving in a way that I don't antitrust. 00:01:39.000 --> 00:01:45.000 That was half baked. And the iMessage was going to be, they were investigating. 00:01:45.000 --> 00:01:50.000 The EU was investigating whether iMessage should be one of these core platform providers 00:01:50.000 --> 00:01:53.000 and thus subject to more regulations. 00:01:53.000 --> 00:01:56.000 Especially because it technically meets the legal definition. 00:01:56.000 --> 00:02:00.000 It's, what is it I wrote down. 00:02:00.000 --> 00:02:06.000 The legal definition is it has at least 45 million EU users every month 00:02:06.000 --> 00:02:12.000 and it's controlled by a firm with at least 75 billion euros in market capitalization. 00:02:12.000 --> 00:02:15.000 And iMessage fits those definitions. 00:02:15.000 --> 00:02:23.000 But Apple specifically was arguing that it should be excluded for various reasons. 00:02:23.000 --> 00:02:30.000 Right. Which, you know, and we heard, oh sorry, and I'll say that the development here is that, 00:02:30.000 --> 00:02:34.000 so even though it fits that definition, the EU decided. 00:02:34.000 --> 00:02:41.000 Has made an explicit carve out. Right. For not only iMessage, but they also made the same thing for. 00:02:41.000 --> 00:02:46.000 Bing, edge browser, and Microsoft's ad services. 00:02:46.000 --> 00:02:52.000 Right. And so we know, you know, we published our TechLinked about this last week 00:02:52.000 --> 00:02:56.000 and we got a lot of comments from you guys talking about, 00:02:56.000 --> 00:03:00.000 especially specifically the ones of you that are in the EU. 00:03:00.000 --> 00:03:03.000 And you were like, we don't use iMessage. This is not a big deal. 00:03:03.000 --> 00:03:07.000 We're totally down with this because we all use WhatsApp instead. 00:03:07.000 --> 00:03:14.000 The other platform offered by a tech giant with like near complete control over social media. 00:03:14.000 --> 00:03:19.000 Which is itself actually considered a gatekeeper by the EU. 00:03:19.000 --> 00:03:24.000 Right. WhatsApp has been designated under the DMA. 00:03:24.000 --> 00:03:27.000 As it should. As it should. 00:03:27.000 --> 00:03:33.000 Yeah. So the EU kind of has backed off and at least that aspect of it. 00:03:33.000 --> 00:03:38.000 And, you know, the EU people, people who live in Europe might be like, 00:03:38.000 --> 00:03:42.000 okay, it totally makes sense. Over here in North America, you know. 00:03:42.000 --> 00:03:47.000 Bit of a culture clash. Definitely. Because over here, a lot of people use iMessage. 00:03:47.000 --> 00:03:53.000 My entire family. Yeah. I think that Android phones altogether still have more market share. 00:03:53.000 --> 00:03:57.000 But Apple is like, it's like Samsung and then Apple. 00:03:57.000 --> 00:04:01.000 Yeah. It's up there. I looked it up recently. I forgot what it was. 00:04:01.000 --> 00:04:05.000 A ton of people use iPhones and iMessage over here and it was interesting. 00:04:05.000 --> 00:04:11.000 It's always interesting reading people who live in the EU posting online about how they're like, 00:04:11.000 --> 00:04:15.000 we don't understand why North Americans are so worked up over this whole green bubble thing. 00:04:15.000 --> 00:04:19.000 Like it's just a bubble. Why does it matter? 00:04:19.000 --> 00:04:25.000 And I would agree with that to an extent. I do think we tend to get over obsessed with the green bubble. 00:04:25.000 --> 00:04:30.000 Because iMessage is interoperable to an extent. 00:04:30.000 --> 00:04:36.000 Yeah, it just sucks. You can message them. It's just you feel like a second-class citizen the entire time. 00:04:36.000 --> 00:04:39.000 Yeah. And I'm sure to some people they do. 00:04:39.000 --> 00:04:46.000 You know, I'm somebody who my friends and family, nearly all of them use iPhone. 00:04:46.000 --> 00:04:49.000 Oh, I am the black sheep of the family group yet. 100%. 00:04:49.000 --> 00:04:52.000 Yeah. Actually, two of my brothers are... 00:04:52.000 --> 00:04:55.000 I have four brothers. Two of them are Android users. 00:04:55.000 --> 00:04:58.000 That's important context. I'm gonna say two of my brothers immediately. 00:04:58.000 --> 00:05:02.000 Is there like 12 Riley Murdochs wandering the countryside? 00:05:02.000 --> 00:05:06.000 They are. It's a menace. Please be careful out there. 00:05:06.000 --> 00:05:13.000 Just mustaches, rustling and bushes? They will laugh awkwardly all the time, just for no reason. 00:05:13.000 --> 00:05:20.000 Two of them are Android users and basically every other person in my friends and family circle 00:05:20.000 --> 00:05:25.000 are iPhone users. So it is really annoying when I get a... 00:05:25.000 --> 00:05:29.000 I'll get messages because it sucks for both parties. 00:05:29.000 --> 00:05:33.000 I'll get messages with a photo or video from my parents and they're like, 00:05:33.000 --> 00:05:38.000 look at this and they were babysitting my kid the other day and they sent me a video. 00:05:38.000 --> 00:05:43.000 And I'm just like... Compressed, blurry. You're just like, I don't remember him being that pixelated when I dropped him off. 00:05:43.000 --> 00:05:47.000 It looks like he's either having fun or being disemboweled by a stuffed animal. 00:05:47.000 --> 00:05:53.000 I don't know what's going on. You seem excited. I'll judge from context that he's not dead. 00:05:53.000 --> 00:05:58.000 Yes, exactly. No, it's designed to annoy both sides of the interaction. 00:05:58.000 --> 00:06:02.000 It is designed to annoy the Android users and we're the one who tend to fixate on it, 00:06:02.000 --> 00:06:05.000 but it's also intended to annoy iPhone users. 00:06:05.000 --> 00:06:08.000 Right, into not doing anything. 00:06:08.000 --> 00:06:11.000 Well, that's what I'm confused about. 00:06:11.000 --> 00:06:15.000 You want your own users annoyed with... 00:06:16.000 --> 00:06:20.000 But I think they're depending on iPhone users on mass, 00:06:20.000 --> 00:06:23.000 not really understanding the root cause of the issue. 00:06:23.000 --> 00:06:30.000 They don't understand that Apple could fix it. They think the problem is that, oh, I'm texting this broke Android user. 00:06:30.000 --> 00:06:34.000 With their inferior device. Yeah, why don't they just buy an iPhone? 00:06:34.000 --> 00:06:41.000 And it's like, no, Tim Apple specifically in his giant tower of evil, 00:06:42.000 --> 00:06:50.000 he has been plotting to make it so that your grandkids' photos look like absolute messes. 00:06:50.000 --> 00:06:54.000 Look upon your photo library and despair. 00:06:57.000 --> 00:07:04.000 Oh my gosh. May I just say that I found recently that some people have actually made compilations of me 00:07:04.000 --> 00:07:08.000 doing the Tim Cook impression and it made me so happy. 00:07:09.000 --> 00:07:12.000 I think there's two big ones that are out there. 00:07:12.000 --> 00:07:17.000 Maybe a third one. I don't want to make anyone angry. If you made those, I sincerely thank you. 00:07:17.000 --> 00:07:20.000 They are fun. They bring me joy. 00:07:20.000 --> 00:07:25.000 But yeah, this iMessage thing, it's gotten North Americans confused 00:07:25.000 --> 00:07:29.000 and there was another thing that kind of came out last week 00:07:29.000 --> 00:07:32.000 about Apple and the EU and the regulations and whatnot, 00:07:32.000 --> 00:07:37.000 which was the Apple's attitude towards progressive web apps. 00:07:37.000 --> 00:07:43.000 Can you summarize exactly? This is not something that is in the official build yet. 00:07:43.000 --> 00:07:49.000 This is in beta build. And in the past three, so like with the first two, they're like, 00:07:49.000 --> 00:07:53.000 oh, this might be a mistake. This might be a glitch. 00:07:53.000 --> 00:07:58.000 Right. Now that it's been like three separate builds, Apple has not fixed this. 00:07:58.000 --> 00:08:03.000 This was previously functional. They're like, okay, this is probably intentional. 00:08:03.000 --> 00:08:06.000 This is probably Apple doing something intentionally, 00:08:06.000 --> 00:08:10.000 especially because it's happening at the same time as all of these other changes. 00:08:10.000 --> 00:08:16.000 Right. And it's that they are making progressive web apps 00:08:16.000 --> 00:08:19.000 non-functional in this build. 00:08:19.000 --> 00:08:22.000 So they're just they're breaking them. They're breaking them. 00:08:22.000 --> 00:08:25.000 They're breaking them. They're making them no longer act as apps 00:08:25.000 --> 00:08:28.000 that you can open from the home screen. You know, boop, there you go. 00:08:28.000 --> 00:08:32.000 And they're making them into essentially they function now 00:08:32.000 --> 00:08:35.000 as shortcuts that just open a web browser. They just open the web page. 00:08:35.000 --> 00:08:40.000 Which, to be fair, is essentially what progressive web apps are. 00:08:40.000 --> 00:08:43.000 Right? Yes. They are shortcuts. 00:08:43.000 --> 00:08:46.000 They're shortcuts, but they kind of also like some processing 00:08:46.000 --> 00:08:51.000 is done on the device and some is done. It's the illicit love child of an app and a web page. 00:08:51.000 --> 00:08:55.000 Right. They have features of both. 00:08:55.000 --> 00:08:58.000 They do allow you to have like local storage, 00:08:58.000 --> 00:09:01.000 which is no longer operable on iOS. 00:09:01.000 --> 00:09:06.000 They do allow notifications, which is no longer operable on iOS. 00:09:06.000 --> 00:09:10.000 Yeah. And the big thing is about progressive web apps. 00:09:10.000 --> 00:09:16.000 Like I don't actually see like a huge user backlash to this. 00:09:16.000 --> 00:09:20.000 Yeah. Well, and this is mostly something that the brands themselves 00:09:20.000 --> 00:09:23.000 really like. Yeah. 00:09:24.000 --> 00:09:27.000 I have, in the years that I've been covering tech news, 00:09:27.000 --> 00:09:31.000 I've encountered the idea of progressive web apps, obviously, and I've like seen them, you know. 00:09:31.000 --> 00:09:36.000 Yeah, because they support caring for the homeless and they want healthcare. 00:09:36.000 --> 00:09:39.000 Progressive web apps. And also they're really convenient. 00:09:39.000 --> 00:09:42.000 They open straight from the home page. 00:09:42.000 --> 00:09:46.000 They're web apps that push for change. 00:09:46.000 --> 00:09:48.000 No. Yeah. 00:09:49.000 --> 00:09:53.000 There's sort of changes to the app design 00:09:53.000 --> 00:09:58.000 that allows it to kind of like, you know, launch more responsively and, you know, 00:09:58.000 --> 00:10:02.000 be a bit easier to use in the way that an app is, 00:10:02.000 --> 00:10:06.000 like an actually installed app. But it's basically a website still. 00:10:06.000 --> 00:10:10.000 Yes. Because it is, yeah, you're going through a browser. 00:10:10.000 --> 00:10:15.000 And in my... It's an Uber web page that operates like the Uber app. 00:10:15.000 --> 00:10:20.000 Yeah. Looking these up a little bit just a few minutes ago, 00:10:20.000 --> 00:10:24.000 because I asked myself, I'm like, why do these exist? 00:10:24.000 --> 00:10:28.000 Who wanted these? Does this really make life better for users 00:10:28.000 --> 00:10:32.000 or for like business owners? And it seems like the people who really wanted these 00:10:32.000 --> 00:10:35.000 were business owners. I don't want to speak for anyone if you're, 00:10:35.000 --> 00:10:39.000 you know, on the user side of this and you're like, I love progressive web apps. 00:10:39.000 --> 00:10:42.000 Every time I, you know, go on my browser 00:10:42.000 --> 00:10:45.000 and look up a website. We don't mean to invalidate your lived experience. 00:10:45.000 --> 00:10:48.000 Yeah. I'd go on a website and it tells me, 00:10:48.000 --> 00:10:51.000 maybe you want to switch to the web app or whatever, 00:10:51.000 --> 00:10:55.000 and you do that and you're very happy, then fair enough. 00:10:55.000 --> 00:11:00.000 But for me, every time that it gave me that prompt on my phone, I'm like, no, just go to the, 00:11:00.000 --> 00:11:03.000 just go to the website, please. 00:11:03.000 --> 00:11:06.000 Stop. Yeah. And so... 00:11:06.000 --> 00:11:09.000 We are old men, so... Yeah, yeah. 00:11:09.000 --> 00:11:13.000 We don't like this new fangled business. As far as I can tell, the reason web apps really became a thing 00:11:13.000 --> 00:11:16.000 is because they allow businesses 00:11:16.000 --> 00:11:19.000 to kind of farm more interaction and engagement 00:11:19.000 --> 00:11:22.000 from users when they go to a website. So apparently... 00:11:22.000 --> 00:11:25.000 They decreased the friction of getting the consumer 00:11:25.000 --> 00:11:28.000 on the app, engaging with the material, 00:11:28.000 --> 00:11:31.000 buying the goods. Yeah. 00:11:31.000 --> 00:11:35.000 So apparently Pinterest, a 2018 review published by Forbes, 00:11:35.000 --> 00:11:38.000 this is just on Wikipedia, found that users of Pinterest's progressive web app 00:11:38.000 --> 00:11:42.000 spent 40% more time on the site compared to the previous mobile website. 00:11:42.000 --> 00:11:46.000 Revenue increased by 44%, core engagements by 60%. 00:11:46.000 --> 00:11:50.000 So I'm like, okay, I understand. You know, because a progressive web app 00:11:50.000 --> 00:11:53.000 is a bit easier to use than, like, a lot of mobile sites. 00:11:53.000 --> 00:11:56.000 It's a slicker experience. It has less friction, less of those petty annoyances 00:11:56.000 --> 00:12:00.000 that make you go, I should really go make something to eat. 00:12:00.000 --> 00:12:03.000 I should really go clean the house. 00:12:03.000 --> 00:12:06.000 Right. It's easier to just suck you in. 00:12:06.000 --> 00:12:09.000 I guess the benefit, though, for users 00:12:09.000 --> 00:12:13.000 is that you can have an app... They spend less time with their kids. 00:12:13.000 --> 00:12:18.000 And more time sucked into a security. You know, and anything that can get you away. 00:12:18.000 --> 00:12:22.000 Just that little bit of a dopamine hit to take away the nigh 00:12:22.000 --> 00:12:25.000 unstopping pain of existence. And Apple doesn't want that 00:12:25.000 --> 00:12:28.000 because they want your families to remain intact. 00:12:28.000 --> 00:12:31.000 Absolutely. And buy more Apple products. 00:12:31.000 --> 00:12:35.000 This is a Tim Cook conspiracy 00:12:35.000 --> 00:12:40.000 to maintain the traditional family. I'm not going to do another impression. 00:12:40.000 --> 00:12:43.000 The... The... The bait didn't work. 00:12:43.000 --> 00:12:46.000 We get so excited on the writing team. Every time... 00:12:46.000 --> 00:12:49.000 Every time Tim Cook makes an announcement. 00:12:49.000 --> 00:12:52.000 I'm like, yes, yes, he's back. Yes. 00:12:52.000 --> 00:12:56.000 But the benefit for the users is the fact that you can have, like, 00:12:56.000 --> 00:13:01.000 an app-like experience outside of the distribution channel 00:13:01.000 --> 00:13:05.000 that is the Apple App Store 00:13:06.000 --> 00:13:10.000 or Google Play. So businesses can deliver this sort of 00:13:10.000 --> 00:13:13.000 experience to users without going through all... Jumping through all those hoops. 00:13:13.000 --> 00:13:17.000 Without necessarily having to use those stores as an intermediary. 00:13:17.000 --> 00:13:20.000 Right. And that's why Apple wasn't really a fan of it 00:13:20.000 --> 00:13:23.000 to begin with. Apple was never a fan of it. Right. 00:13:23.000 --> 00:13:26.000 They caved a bit to pressure. Yeah. 00:13:26.000 --> 00:13:29.000 And it looks like they're uncaving. It looks like they're digging out that cave. 00:13:29.000 --> 00:13:32.000 Oh, wait. Really? I thought they... 00:13:32.000 --> 00:13:35.000 I mean this. Well, they're killing them, right? Yes. 00:13:35.000 --> 00:13:38.000 But they didn't want to put them in the first place. Oh, they caved to the pressure to allow... Yeah. 00:13:38.000 --> 00:13:41.000 Right, right, right. Another uncaving. Yeah, I get what you're saying. 00:13:41.000 --> 00:13:44.000 The cave, you know, I don't do well with cave analogies. They're decaving. 00:13:44.000 --> 00:13:47.000 Right. And like, caving is not... 00:13:47.000 --> 00:13:51.000 It's something that is not excavating a cave. It just means going inside a cave. 00:13:51.000 --> 00:13:54.000 Yes. Splunking. There's that. 00:13:54.000 --> 00:13:57.000 Wait, what is caving? 00:13:57.000 --> 00:14:00.000 I'm honestly... Well, I mean, 00:14:00.000 --> 00:14:03.000 I don't know if there's multiple definitions of the word cave. 00:14:03.000 --> 00:14:07.000 I know that like... Caving also known as spelunking. 00:14:07.000 --> 00:14:10.000 Yep. And potholing. So... 00:14:10.000 --> 00:14:13.000 I have never heard of that before. That's... They're just making them up at this point. 00:14:13.000 --> 00:14:17.000 That sounds dirty. Now, does this have anything to do with the EU thing, really? 00:14:17.000 --> 00:14:20.000 Because Apple was forced to open up iOS 00:14:20.000 --> 00:14:23.000 to third-party app stores. 00:14:23.000 --> 00:14:26.000 Sort of, we'll get into that. 00:14:26.000 --> 00:14:30.000 Because they were forced to do that, now they're like, well, I guess we don't need progressive web apps, 00:14:30.000 --> 00:14:33.000 which was the previous method to kind of like skirt the app store. 00:14:33.000 --> 00:14:36.000 Now you're gonna have your very own third-party app store, 00:14:36.000 --> 00:14:39.000 instead of the Apple app store on your iPhones. 00:14:39.000 --> 00:14:43.000 So you don't need progressive web apps anymore, so they're only killing these... 00:14:43.000 --> 00:14:46.000 Are you happy now, developers? Stop crying! 00:14:46.000 --> 00:14:49.000 So they're only killing it in the European Union. 00:14:49.000 --> 00:14:53.000 Yes, it's exclusive to the EU. And that's another hint, is like, 00:14:53.000 --> 00:14:57.000 okay, you're doing this intentionally, it's exclusively in the EU. 00:14:57.000 --> 00:15:00.000 Is this a response to the other things going on in the EU? 00:15:00.000 --> 00:15:04.000 Because, you know, Apple does do these things to keep regulators happy. 00:15:04.000 --> 00:15:08.000 And if it's making a concession another area, 00:15:08.000 --> 00:15:14.000 maybe we don't have to make this concession anymore. And of course, as their official explanation, 00:15:14.000 --> 00:15:17.000 Apple has to claim that malicious web apps 00:15:17.000 --> 00:15:21.000 could read data from other web apps and gain access to a user's camera, 00:15:21.000 --> 00:15:26.000 microphone, and location without user consent. And like, think of the user! 00:15:26.000 --> 00:15:30.000 When they said similar things like this... For shame! 00:15:30.000 --> 00:15:34.000 The user! They said similar. They did scary language like this as well 00:15:34.000 --> 00:15:37.000 when they released their, like, new rules for the app store in the EU. 00:15:37.000 --> 00:15:40.000 But, like, those things are true... 00:15:40.000 --> 00:15:44.000 Yes, they are. ...of any platform, if malware gets it. 00:15:44.000 --> 00:15:48.000 So it's like, the... You know, maybe we should talk about this 00:15:48.000 --> 00:15:51.000 when we, like, as we talk about the other regulations, 00:15:51.000 --> 00:15:54.000 but just quickly, 00:15:54.000 --> 00:15:59.000 anytime Apple talks about security as a reason for why they need to lock things down, 00:15:59.000 --> 00:16:05.000 it always reads so hollow, because every other platform allows these things 00:16:05.000 --> 00:16:08.000 and is able to have reasonable security, 00:16:08.000 --> 00:16:13.000 like, reasonable protection. But Apple is the only 00:16:13.000 --> 00:16:17.000 massive company, like, overseeing one of these massive platforms used by so many people 00:16:17.000 --> 00:16:21.000 who insists that they have to have things locked down 00:16:21.000 --> 00:16:24.000 so tight. Mother knows best. It's very paternalistic. 00:16:24.000 --> 00:16:28.000 It is. And it's one of those competing values 00:16:28.000 --> 00:16:34.000 kind of things where it's like, well, you want these services to be safe, right? 00:16:34.000 --> 00:16:37.000 And I do. True. I do. 00:16:37.000 --> 00:16:40.000 I very much do. But it's... 00:16:40.000 --> 00:16:43.000 The question is not, should this be safe, 00:16:43.000 --> 00:16:47.000 is are you balancing this correctly with other concerns? 00:16:47.000 --> 00:16:51.000 And largely, 00:16:51.000 --> 00:16:54.000 it is almost always the case that Apple is pushing 00:16:54.000 --> 00:16:57.000 always like 10% too far. Yeah. 00:16:57.000 --> 00:17:00.000 It's 10% too far. And it's interesting because 00:17:00.000 --> 00:17:03.000 even when they do kind of open up, 00:17:03.000 --> 00:17:06.000 they open up in the most limited way possible, 00:17:06.000 --> 00:17:11.000 which... Like a reluctant child who's been told to apologize, 00:17:11.000 --> 00:17:16.000 dragging their feet and saying, I'm sorry, I... 00:17:16.000 --> 00:17:20.000 Well, but it's even, it's worse than that, because they're not acting petulant or like... 00:17:20.000 --> 00:17:23.000 No. Like a kid so much as they... They're acting put upon. 00:17:23.000 --> 00:17:26.000 They're acting like a dictator 00:17:26.000 --> 00:17:29.000 that was just forced to respect human rights. 00:17:29.000 --> 00:17:34.000 Like, they're like, okay, I guess we will allow people... 00:17:34.000 --> 00:17:37.000 But just so you know, this is letting the communists win. 00:17:37.000 --> 00:17:40.000 Yeah. But just so you know, if we let people out of their cells, 00:17:40.000 --> 00:17:43.000 they could punch each other. So on the street. 00:17:43.000 --> 00:17:46.000 So everyone needs to stay. That's why we need a curfew. 00:17:46.000 --> 00:17:49.000 So that brings me to the App Store rules 00:17:49.000 --> 00:17:52.000 that Apple instituted 00:17:52.000 --> 00:17:56.000 because they were forced to because there was a deadline... 00:17:56.000 --> 00:17:59.000 Or the deadline is coming up. We haven't hit the deadline yet, 00:17:59.000 --> 00:18:02.000 but they know that they have to get these rules out and then there's a review process 00:18:02.000 --> 00:18:05.000 and like the EU has to approve them and all that stuff and that. 00:18:05.000 --> 00:18:12.000 I don't think anything has really moved forward on that. But if I'm not mistaking the deadline is... 00:18:12.000 --> 00:18:15.000 It's coming up. March 6th, I believe. 00:18:15.000 --> 00:18:18.000 So yeah, Apple is now allowing 00:18:18.000 --> 00:18:21.000 third-party app marketplaces, 00:18:21.000 --> 00:18:24.000 what they call... Well, they do have the bit of the Kleenex problem 00:18:24.000 --> 00:18:27.000 where their word for an App Store 00:18:27.000 --> 00:18:30.000 became the default word for an App Store. 00:18:30.000 --> 00:18:33.000 Yeah. And I guess they were really like the first big one. 00:18:33.000 --> 00:18:37.000 Yeah. They called them Apps. The Play Store is also an App Store. 00:18:37.000 --> 00:18:40.000 Not only... So they're saying we're allowing you 00:18:40.000 --> 00:18:43.000 to have these third-party App Stores. However, 00:18:43.000 --> 00:18:46.000 every app that goes on the 00:18:46.000 --> 00:18:50.000 App Marketplace, that is not ours, 00:18:50.000 --> 00:18:55.000 we still have to scan it. We still have to make sure that it's cool. 00:18:55.000 --> 00:18:58.000 Which is, you know, 00:18:58.000 --> 00:19:01.000 somewhat fair on macOS 00:19:01.000 --> 00:19:05.000 and on Windows. You can install any app you want 00:19:05.000 --> 00:19:08.000 and the system security will scan the app when it's installed 00:19:08.000 --> 00:19:12.000 or it'll check it against a list of currently known, you know, 00:19:12.000 --> 00:19:15.000 malicious apps or whatever and it'll give you a warning 00:19:15.000 --> 00:19:18.000 or whatever. But Apple's saying that 00:19:18.000 --> 00:19:22.000 in order for you to publish an app on this other App Store at all, 00:19:22.000 --> 00:19:26.000 they need to notarize it. For you to even consider downloading it, 00:19:26.000 --> 00:19:29.000 it must pass through a test. 00:19:29.000 --> 00:19:33.000 Which is just... And this is... Yeah, it's just so Apple. 00:19:33.000 --> 00:19:36.000 If you want to launch an alternate App Marketplace, 00:19:36.000 --> 00:19:40.000 you need to have a letter of credit from an A-rated financial institution 00:19:40.000 --> 00:19:44.000 and at least a million euros in the bank. 00:19:44.000 --> 00:19:48.000 Which I heard some developers say is actually kind of reasonable. 00:19:48.000 --> 00:19:52.000 It does mean that they have a backstop in case something terrible happens. 00:19:52.000 --> 00:19:55.000 Yeah. Which you do want for a company 00:19:55.000 --> 00:19:59.000 that's dealing with very large amounts of refunds, potentially. 00:19:59.000 --> 00:20:03.000 Right. But what they're definitely not allowing 00:20:03.000 --> 00:20:07.000 is... So, like, there's some progress here. They're definitely not allowing 00:20:07.000 --> 00:20:10.000 sideloading. No. People keep saying that. 00:20:10.000 --> 00:20:14.000 I've seen articles published in the last week that are saying that Apple is allowing 00:20:14.000 --> 00:20:18.000 sideloading. Really? And as far as I can tell, they are not. 00:20:18.000 --> 00:20:21.000 I heard... I saw a bunch of initial articles talking about it, 00:20:21.000 --> 00:20:25.000 but it's so annoying because you have some people who, I think, 00:20:25.000 --> 00:20:29.000 view sideloading as just... Anything that isn't the App Store? 00:20:29.000 --> 00:20:32.000 Yeah. Which is like... Well... 00:20:32.000 --> 00:20:35.000 Words have meanings. Yeah. Sideloading should mean 00:20:35.000 --> 00:20:39.000 going to a website or something or downloading a file, an APK file, 00:20:39.000 --> 00:20:42.000 or... Or a package file on... 00:20:42.000 --> 00:20:47.000 I don't know what it is on iOS, but... And then double-clicking that file to install it. 00:20:47.000 --> 00:20:51.000 And... You're not getting it through an App Store at all. 00:20:51.000 --> 00:20:54.000 To me, that's sideloading. But, you know, fair enough, 00:20:54.000 --> 00:20:57.000 Apple people, you know, they're in their own world sometimes. 00:20:57.000 --> 00:21:00.000 It's like you're calling her your side chick and she's just your wife? What's going on? 00:21:00.000 --> 00:21:03.000 I will say... I will say that 00:21:03.000 --> 00:21:07.000 every time I talk about Apple, I get self-conscious about whether, like, 00:21:07.000 --> 00:21:10.000 Apple people listening to this, people who are Apple fans listening to this 00:21:10.000 --> 00:21:13.000 think that I, like, absolutely just hate Apple. And I don't... 00:21:13.000 --> 00:21:16.000 I don't at all. I think that they... Every day he walks into the office 00:21:16.000 --> 00:21:20.000 and he just punches a picture of Tim Cook. It's just got him on a dartboard. 00:21:20.000 --> 00:21:25.000 He doesn't even throw the darts. He just... I will defeat you and take your place. 00:21:25.000 --> 00:21:28.000 That's what he's been practicing for. Yeah. 00:21:28.000 --> 00:21:31.000 Barbara, come on. Tim Cook's skin suit. 00:21:31.000 --> 00:21:35.000 No, I love Apple. I used to be an Apple user 00:21:35.000 --> 00:21:39.000 before I got hired at NCIX and, like, just fully got brainwashed 00:21:39.000 --> 00:21:42.000 into PC ecosystem. My wife uses Apple. 00:21:42.000 --> 00:21:45.000 Everyone, like, a lot of people I know, use Apple and I'm like, 00:21:45.000 --> 00:21:48.000 it's good for you. It's good for a certain type of people. They are very high-quality products. 00:21:48.000 --> 00:21:52.000 The UI is simple. The design is slick. 00:21:52.000 --> 00:21:55.000 And they're easy to use. And they're secure, you know? 00:21:55.000 --> 00:21:59.000 They are. For better or worse, the measures that Apple takes 00:21:59.000 --> 00:22:03.000 does help these people, these poor people, 00:22:03.000 --> 00:22:07.000 who don't know how to use a phone unless Apple tells them how to. 00:22:07.000 --> 00:22:10.000 See, I did it again. It's compulsive. 00:22:10.000 --> 00:22:14.000 I can't be fully positive. So you got some notes here. 00:22:14.000 --> 00:22:19.000 Commissions paid to Apple have been reduced to 10% for most devs 00:22:19.000 --> 00:22:22.000 and for subscriptions after the first year. 00:22:22.000 --> 00:22:25.000 And then there's a 17% commission 00:22:25.000 --> 00:22:30.000 for digital goods and services. And that is if developers choose 00:22:30.000 --> 00:22:33.000 to adopt the new business terms. Yes. 00:22:33.000 --> 00:22:36.000 They stay on the old business terms 00:22:36.000 --> 00:22:40.000 where it's like 30% or 15% depending on what your position is 00:22:40.000 --> 00:22:44.000 in the developer marketplace, how popular you are, et cetera, et cetera, 00:22:44.000 --> 00:22:47.000 how much revenue you're getting. Et cetera, et cetera. Yeah. 00:22:48.000 --> 00:22:51.000 But here's the kicker. 00:22:51.000 --> 00:22:54.000 Just from that, it sounds like... Sounds awesome. 00:22:54.000 --> 00:22:58.000 It sounds like you should move. But they also introduced... 00:22:58.000 --> 00:23:01.000 Oh, so add on to that potential 17%, 00:23:01.000 --> 00:23:05.000 3% fee if you still want to use Apple's payment processing. 00:23:05.000 --> 00:23:09.000 If you want to use an alternative payment processing, you can drop that 3% fee. 00:23:09.000 --> 00:23:13.000 But Apple also introduced an additional core technology fee 00:23:13.000 --> 00:23:19.000 of half a euro for each annual install per user 00:23:19.000 --> 00:23:22.000 after the app crosses one million installs threshold. 00:23:22.000 --> 00:23:26.000 And I am almost positive that they make this 00:23:26.000 --> 00:23:29.000 so hard to understand on purpose. Yeah. 00:23:30.000 --> 00:23:33.000 If math was your least favorite subject 00:23:33.000 --> 00:23:36.000 in school, this is meant to trick you. 00:23:36.000 --> 00:23:40.000 Yeah, for sure. Because it doesn't sound like a lot, 00:23:40.000 --> 00:23:43.000 but it's super complicated to understand, 00:23:43.000 --> 00:23:46.000 to really grok what's going on here. 00:23:46.000 --> 00:23:49.000 Yeah. And it took me a while to wrap my head around it. 00:23:49.000 --> 00:23:54.000 So essentially, the first time a user goes to install an app 00:23:54.000 --> 00:23:58.000 on their device, if they've never installed this app before, 00:23:59.000 --> 00:24:02.000 when they install it, the developer will pay half a euro. 00:24:02.000 --> 00:24:05.000 Then, that user can install that app 00:24:05.000 --> 00:24:09.000 anywhere they want on other devices, and the developer won't be charged 00:24:09.000 --> 00:24:13.000 for 12 months. 12 months after the day 00:24:13.000 --> 00:24:16.000 that the user installs the app for the first time, 00:24:16.000 --> 00:24:19.000 then if they uninstall it and reinstall it 00:24:19.000 --> 00:24:23.000 or install it on another device, then the developer will be pinged again. 00:24:23.000 --> 00:24:26.000 Yeah, dinged. Not pinged. They won't get a little message 00:24:26.000 --> 00:24:28.000 reminding them to reply to an email or something. 00:24:30.000 --> 00:24:33.000 Yeah, so. And that happens for every user 00:24:35.000 --> 00:24:38.000 after the app has been installed one million times. 00:24:38.000 --> 00:24:43.000 So if you've got two million, that's half a million euros in fees. 00:24:43.000 --> 00:24:46.000 Yes. And they have a handy calculator 00:24:46.000 --> 00:24:50.000 so developers can go and see how much they might lose. 00:24:50.000 --> 00:24:53.000 To see how absolutely ruined they're going to be. 00:24:53.000 --> 00:24:57.000 Yeah, and most developers, it seems if you have an app 00:24:57.000 --> 00:25:00.000 that's popular in any way. To any degree. 00:25:00.000 --> 00:25:04.000 But particularly, if you do not have in-app purchases. 00:25:04.000 --> 00:25:07.000 Like if you, because I was thinking about my favorite 00:25:07.000 --> 00:25:10.000 game back in the day, which was Plants vs. Zombies, 00:25:10.000 --> 00:25:14.000 the first one before they ruined it. And in that game, 00:25:14.000 --> 00:25:18.000 I only paid for that game once. But I like to redownload it 00:25:18.000 --> 00:25:20.000 every few years to play it again. 00:25:21.000 --> 00:25:23.000 I would be financially... 00:25:24.000 --> 00:25:27.000 Well, the developer would. The developer? No, like I would be punishing them. 00:25:27.000 --> 00:25:30.000 Yes, yes. They would be getting punished 00:25:30.000 --> 00:25:33.000 for my love. Yeah. Yeah. 00:25:33.000 --> 00:25:36.000 My affection and my nostalgia for this game 00:25:36.000 --> 00:25:40.000 and the fact that they're not pushy with in-app purchases 00:25:40.000 --> 00:25:43.000 that you don't, it's not a live service game 00:25:43.000 --> 00:25:47.000 that's constantly trying to suck the life out of you. That would actually be penalized 00:25:47.000 --> 00:25:50.000 by this kind of game, this kind of payment structure. 00:25:50.000 --> 00:25:54.000 And Apple has said that they are like, oh, we're going to protect against 00:25:55.000 --> 00:25:58.000 people... Maliciously doing this. Yeah, people taking advantage of the system 00:25:58.000 --> 00:26:01.000 if they want to like cancel developers. But you can also just 00:26:01.000 --> 00:26:04.000 unmaliciously be severely punished by this. Yeah. 00:26:04.000 --> 00:26:07.000 And that's actually far more likely. I think it was such whiplash, 00:26:07.000 --> 00:26:11.000 oh, and one more thing, that core technology fee of half a euro, 00:26:11.000 --> 00:26:14.000 it applies to alternate-app 00:26:14.000 --> 00:26:17.000 marketplaces for every install. They don't need to wait... 00:26:17.000 --> 00:26:20.000 They are not protected by the one million install threshold. 00:26:20.000 --> 00:26:25.000 Yeah, so you don't have to wait for an app marketplace to be installed a million times. 00:26:25.000 --> 00:26:28.000 Now, all of these numbers, 00:26:28.000 --> 00:26:32.000 does it only have to be installed one million times in the EU? 00:26:33.000 --> 00:26:36.000 Presumably. I feel like that's true. Presumably. 00:26:36.000 --> 00:26:40.000 Yeah, it must be. It'd be weird if it wasn't. It'd be weird if like, 00:26:40.000 --> 00:26:43.000 you had like a million installs in like, 00:26:43.000 --> 00:26:46.000 I don't know, Tajikistan. Yeah. 00:26:46.000 --> 00:26:50.000 And you had one install over that limit in the EU, 00:26:50.000 --> 00:26:53.000 and suddenly you owed Apple like a dollar. 00:26:53.000 --> 00:26:56.000 Yeah. So there's like, there's sort of... 00:26:56.000 --> 00:27:00.000 That's not intuitive. There's sort of a... 00:27:00.000 --> 00:27:04.000 You can see Apple's side here a little bit, because as we've said, 00:27:04.000 --> 00:27:08.000 EU people say again and again how not popular iPhones are 00:27:08.000 --> 00:27:12.000 and iMessages in Europe. Although iPhone is more popular than iMessage. 00:27:12.000 --> 00:27:15.000 That's true. A lot of people will still have iPhones. Download WhatsApp on it. 00:27:15.000 --> 00:27:19.000 Yeah, for sure. WhatsApp gets dinged. 00:27:19.000 --> 00:27:23.000 But yeah, this came out and the news came out 00:27:23.000 --> 00:27:27.000 and it seemed like, oh my gosh, the EU got Apple. 00:27:27.000 --> 00:27:30.000 You know, they... We've been forcing... 00:27:30.000 --> 00:27:33.000 They basically forced them to put USB-C in the iPhone. 00:27:33.000 --> 00:27:36.000 Yes. Apple finally caved to that, 00:27:36.000 --> 00:27:40.000 I think before they really had to, but like, they made it clear, 00:27:40.000 --> 00:27:43.000 I think at some point, I remember a press release. 00:27:43.000 --> 00:27:46.000 They knew it was inevitable. About how they were like, it was worse, 00:27:46.000 --> 00:27:49.000 but we're doing it anyway, I guess. For you. 00:27:49.000 --> 00:27:52.000 Even though the connector's better than lightning, whatever. 00:27:52.000 --> 00:27:55.000 I don't know if it's... If it's like a factual thing, 00:27:55.000 --> 00:27:59.000 I always felt that the lightning connectors wore out faster. 00:27:59.000 --> 00:28:03.000 The actual connector that's themselves are pretty robust. 00:28:03.000 --> 00:28:06.000 But like the... I found the cables fraying. 00:28:06.000 --> 00:28:10.000 The cables fray like anything else. Like nothing else. 00:28:10.000 --> 00:28:14.000 Yeah. Or maybe that's because I was jumping a rope with them. 00:28:14.000 --> 00:28:17.000 That'll do it. Apple... 00:28:17.000 --> 00:28:20.000 I got whiplash when we reported on this. 00:28:20.000 --> 00:28:23.000 It was like, wow, you got Apple. 00:28:23.000 --> 00:28:27.000 And then the more you read into it, the more like, oh, this is why 00:28:27.000 --> 00:28:31.000 people called it malicious compliance. However, one other thing that came out 00:28:31.000 --> 00:28:37.000 at the same time was Apple announced that globally, gaming apps, 00:28:37.000 --> 00:28:41.000 cloud gaming apps can now list all of their library and have their 00:28:41.000 --> 00:28:46.000 library of games accessible from within the iOS app on the App Store, 00:28:46.000 --> 00:28:50.000 which was not allowed before. Yeah, they'll list them all individually. 00:28:50.000 --> 00:28:53.000 Well, that's what Apple wanted them to do. Like Xbox and... 00:28:53.000 --> 00:28:57.000 Resident Evil 1, Resident Evil 2, Resident Evil 3, Code Veronica. 00:28:57.000 --> 00:29:01.000 Xbox basically said, yeah, no, we're not doing that. 00:29:01.000 --> 00:29:06.000 And then they just had the web app basically. You could go to gforcinalo.com 00:29:06.000 --> 00:29:10.000 or Xbox, Game Pass or whatever, and you could use the browser to stream games, 00:29:10.000 --> 00:29:15.000 but it's not a great solution. So at least that's the one thing 00:29:15.000 --> 00:29:18.000 that they unequivocally gave ground on. 00:29:18.000 --> 00:29:23.000 But the rest of it, it remains to be seen 00:29:23.000 --> 00:29:26.000 how the whole Apple versus the EU situation 00:29:26.000 --> 00:29:30.000 will continue to play out here. Where do you see things going from here? 00:29:30.000 --> 00:29:33.000 Do you see the EU calling Apple out on this 00:29:33.000 --> 00:29:37.000 and being like, no, this is not good enough, or are they gonna do a similar thing 00:29:37.000 --> 00:29:41.000 that they did with iMessage, because they know that iMessage qualifies, 00:29:41.000 --> 00:29:44.000 but it's only their jurisdiction in Europe. 00:29:44.000 --> 00:29:48.000 It makes kind of sense. It has a lot to do with just how we're defining 00:29:48.000 --> 00:29:52.000 what a market is. If we're only defining it as the EU 00:29:52.000 --> 00:29:56.000 and we're only defining it as... A lot of antitrust is like that, 00:29:56.000 --> 00:30:00.000 and it can be quite frustrating, because it feels like, principally, 00:30:00.000 --> 00:30:04.000 you should be doing it this way, but no, it is done by rule. 00:30:04.000 --> 00:30:09.000 It is done by these esoteric, very specific principles that are... 00:30:09.000 --> 00:30:12.000 We have been using legally as jurisprudence 00:30:12.000 --> 00:30:17.000 for hundreds of years, and they don't really make a lot of sense 00:30:17.000 --> 00:30:21.000 unless you're very immersed in them. Yeah, I mean... 00:30:21.000 --> 00:30:24.000 But I do think that Apple's going to get 00:30:24.000 --> 00:30:28.000 significantly more pushback for what they've been doing with the App Store 00:30:28.000 --> 00:30:32.000 than they will for... I do not think it's going to go... 00:30:32.000 --> 00:30:38.000 Maybe they're not going... Maybe regulators are not going to 00:30:38.000 --> 00:30:42.000 push them that hard, but I cannot imagine they'll just give them 00:30:42.000 --> 00:30:46.000 a complete carve-out and accept these new rules. Yeah, they're just... 00:30:46.000 --> 00:30:50.000 They're ridiculous, because... They seem actively worse 00:30:50.000 --> 00:30:54.000 than the rules they were forced to change. Developers basically have a choice between 00:30:54.000 --> 00:30:58.000 sticking with Apple's old rules, which are the proper right rules 00:30:58.000 --> 00:31:02.000 that you should follow, or switching to this new system 00:31:02.000 --> 00:31:06.000 because they really, really, really want to launch a third-party... 00:31:06.000 --> 00:31:10.000 Their apps on their third-party App Store, or like Epic, they want to launch their own 00:31:10.000 --> 00:31:14.000 third-party App Store. But by doing that, 00:31:14.000 --> 00:31:18.000 they're getting so much worse of a deal. A hefty financial penalty. 00:31:18.000 --> 00:31:22.000 And basically the only people... Epic has said, 00:31:22.000 --> 00:31:26.000 we're going to launch Fortnite on iOS through the Epic Game Store 00:31:26.000 --> 00:31:30.000 when we launch that as a new App Marketplace later this year. 00:31:30.000 --> 00:31:34.000 But... Like the Epic Game Store, 00:31:34.000 --> 00:31:38.000 which is to be an exercise in losing money because they're going to be... 00:31:38.000 --> 00:31:42.000 They're still going to be paying Apple crazy amounts of fees if they do this. 00:31:42.000 --> 00:31:46.000 Through the notes. I half expect them to just say, 00:31:46.000 --> 00:31:50.000 like, you know what, we're still not going to do it, because I feel like they wanted to take this win 00:31:50.000 --> 00:31:54.000 quote-unquote... They wanted to revel a little bit 00:31:54.000 --> 00:31:58.000 in Apple being forced to allow third-party App Stores 00:31:58.000 --> 00:32:02.000 by saying, haha! We are going to launch our App Store 00:32:02.000 --> 00:32:06.000 at all before. Now they can do it. But it's going to be like... 00:32:06.000 --> 00:32:10.000 At what cost? At a big one. 00:32:10.000 --> 00:32:14.000 But the thing is, we're not the only ones who are aware of this. 00:32:14.000 --> 00:32:18.000 Regulators are likely to be aware that offering someone 00:32:18.000 --> 00:32:22.000 a choice that technically exists but is effectively the 00:32:22.000 --> 00:32:26.000 exact same choice as before. It's just like, well, like previously 00:32:26.000 --> 00:32:30.000 I said you could go by my rules and now you have the option of going by my rules 00:32:30.000 --> 00:32:34.000 by stepping into this bear trap. Yeah. 00:32:34.000 --> 00:32:38.000 I cannot imagine that will fly. Yeah. 00:32:38.000 --> 00:32:42.000 And then there's the whole question of whether the EU should be attempting 00:32:42.000 --> 00:32:46.000 to regulate these companies in this way. Because 00:32:46.000 --> 00:32:50.000 as far as... So far 00:32:50.000 --> 00:32:54.000 it seems like the EU has kind of put through regulations 00:32:54.000 --> 00:32:58.000 that, at least to us in the tech sphere, we don't... 00:32:58.000 --> 00:33:02.000 We aren't really involved in keeping up with European 00:33:02.000 --> 00:33:06.000 regulations in non-tech... Speak for yourself. 00:33:06.000 --> 00:33:10.000 Sure. Potholes. 00:33:10.000 --> 00:33:14.000 And we can't talk about it now even if we are caught up with it. 00:33:14.000 --> 00:33:18.000 But with other areas of politics we're not going to delve into like, 00:33:18.000 --> 00:33:22.000 oh, the EU is regulating healthcare or all these things, right? 00:33:22.000 --> 00:33:26.000 Should there be a tariff on Brussels brown? Yeah, exactly. 00:33:26.000 --> 00:33:30.000 As far as that, we like what the EU has done so far 00:33:30.000 --> 00:33:34.000 broadly. But the question becomes 00:33:34.000 --> 00:33:38.000 when do they stop? At what point will the EU say, 00:33:38.000 --> 00:33:42.000 all right, that's enough regulation now. The market is 00:33:42.000 --> 00:33:46.000 sufficiently de-freedomized a little bit 00:33:46.000 --> 00:33:50.000 so that it's a bit more fair. But I 00:33:50.000 --> 00:33:54.000 hope that they stop at the right point instead of just 00:33:54.000 --> 00:33:58.000 regulations on companies such that because 00:33:58.000 --> 00:34:02.000 sometimes you can foster innovation other times you can stifle innovation 00:34:02.000 --> 00:34:06.000 with regulations, so I don't know. I don't live in Europe. 00:34:06.000 --> 00:34:10.000 We live in Canada. Which is essentially the Europe of North America. 00:34:10.000 --> 00:34:14.000 I think you offended a lot of Europeans there. 00:34:14.000 --> 00:34:18.000 And I'm glad. Primarily because it's a country and not... 00:34:18.000 --> 00:34:22.000 Okay, well let me say goodbye to the Europeans in their own language. 00:34:22.000 --> 00:34:26.000 Thank you for watching, guys. Um... 00:34:26.000 --> 00:34:30.000 Don't forget to subscribe to TechLanged. 00:34:30.000 --> 00:34:34.000 See you. That might be too offensive 00:34:34.000 --> 00:34:38.000 to include in the video. But I'm not going to do an alternative 00:34:38.000 --> 00:34:40.000 so we're forced to use it.