1 00:00:00,000 --> 00:00:05,000 I think the EU is getting all serious about trying to regulate Apple because they're jealous. 2 00:00:05,000 --> 00:00:09,000 Yeah, trying to regulate the regulator. They're basically doing, they basically want the same things. 3 00:00:09,000 --> 00:00:12,000 They're regular haters. Regular haters. 4 00:00:12,000 --> 00:00:19,000 Regular haters. Regular haters. Apple is trying to like, control its user base, make all these rules about how they're like, 5 00:00:19,000 --> 00:00:23,000 users, they're constituents if you will, or you know, can behave. 6 00:00:23,000 --> 00:00:26,000 A lot to live, a lot to act, a lot to interact with one another. 7 00:00:26,000 --> 00:00:29,000 And you got the EU. Trying to do the same thing. 8 00:00:29,000 --> 00:00:33,000 The same thing except the users are citizens. Its hypocrisy is what it is. 9 00:00:33,000 --> 00:00:40,000 Yeah. Why can't they be like other governmental jurisdictions and just not make any laws at all? 10 00:00:40,000 --> 00:00:46,000 Complete laissez faire, just letting people drive on the sidewalks, download whatever they want, 11 00:00:46,000 --> 00:00:53,000 side loading they call it, sin I say. It's basically like running people down on the sidewalk if you, side loading an app. 12 00:00:53,000 --> 00:00:58,000 So think about that. This was not condoned by God. 13 00:00:58,000 --> 00:01:05,000 Mr. I, we're here to talk about Apple and the EU and some of the most recent developments 14 00:01:05,000 --> 00:01:10,000 last week because this is coming out on Monday, February 19th. 15 00:01:10,000 --> 00:01:16,000 Last week Apple was let off the hook in regards to iMessage when it comes to 16 00:01:16,000 --> 00:01:19,000 slapping the rest of the EU, regulating them. 17 00:01:19,000 --> 00:01:25,000 Well, yeah, sort of. Because like, so the EU is Digital Markets Act. 18 00:01:25,000 --> 00:01:32,000 Trying to kind of rein in all these tech giants who are operating willy nilly doing whatever the heck they want, 19 00:01:32,000 --> 00:01:39,000 closing down their ecosystems, behaving in a way that I don't antitrust. 20 00:01:39,000 --> 00:01:45,000 That was half baked. And the iMessage was going to be, they were investigating. 21 00:01:45,000 --> 00:01:50,000 The EU was investigating whether iMessage should be one of these core platform providers 22 00:01:50,000 --> 00:01:53,000 and thus subject to more regulations. 23 00:01:53,000 --> 00:01:56,000 Especially because it technically meets the legal definition. 24 00:01:56,000 --> 00:02:00,000 It's, what is it I wrote down. 25 00:02:00,000 --> 00:02:06,000 The legal definition is it has at least 45 million EU users every month 26 00:02:06,000 --> 00:02:12,000 and it's controlled by a firm with at least 75 billion euros in market capitalization. 27 00:02:12,000 --> 00:02:15,000 And iMessage fits those definitions. 28 00:02:15,000 --> 00:02:23,000 But Apple specifically was arguing that it should be excluded for various reasons. 29 00:02:23,000 --> 00:02:30,000 Right. Which, you know, and we heard, oh sorry, and I'll say that the development here is that, 30 00:02:30,000 --> 00:02:34,000 so even though it fits that definition, the EU decided. 31 00:02:34,000 --> 00:02:41,000 Has made an explicit carve out. Right. For not only iMessage, but they also made the same thing for. 32 00:02:41,000 --> 00:02:46,000 Bing, edge browser, and Microsoft's ad services. 33 00:02:46,000 --> 00:02:52,000 Right. And so we know, you know, we published our TechLinked about this last week 34 00:02:52,000 --> 00:02:56,000 and we got a lot of comments from you guys talking about, 35 00:02:56,000 --> 00:03:00,000 especially specifically the ones of you that are in the EU. 36 00:03:00,000 --> 00:03:03,000 And you were like, we don't use iMessage. This is not a big deal. 37 00:03:03,000 --> 00:03:07,000 We're totally down with this because we all use WhatsApp instead. 38 00:03:07,000 --> 00:03:14,000 The other platform offered by a tech giant with like near complete control over social media. 39 00:03:14,000 --> 00:03:19,000 Which is itself actually considered a gatekeeper by the EU. 40 00:03:19,000 --> 00:03:24,000 Right. WhatsApp has been designated under the DMA. 41 00:03:24,000 --> 00:03:27,000 As it should. As it should. 42 00:03:27,000 --> 00:03:33,000 Yeah. So the EU kind of has backed off and at least that aspect of it. 43 00:03:33,000 --> 00:03:38,000 And, you know, the EU people, people who live in Europe might be like, 44 00:03:38,000 --> 00:03:42,000 okay, it totally makes sense. Over here in North America, you know. 45 00:03:42,000 --> 00:03:47,000 Bit of a culture clash. Definitely. Because over here, a lot of people use iMessage. 46 00:03:47,000 --> 00:03:53,000 My entire family. Yeah. I think that Android phones altogether still have more market share. 47 00:03:53,000 --> 00:03:57,000 But Apple is like, it's like Samsung and then Apple. 48 00:03:57,000 --> 00:04:01,000 Yeah. It's up there. I looked it up recently. I forgot what it was. 49 00:04:01,000 --> 00:04:05,000 A ton of people use iPhones and iMessage over here and it was interesting. 50 00:04:05,000 --> 00:04:11,000 It's always interesting reading people who live in the EU posting online about how they're like, 51 00:04:11,000 --> 00:04:15,000 we don't understand why North Americans are so worked up over this whole green bubble thing. 52 00:04:15,000 --> 00:04:19,000 Like it's just a bubble. Why does it matter? 53 00:04:19,000 --> 00:04:25,000 And I would agree with that to an extent. I do think we tend to get over obsessed with the green bubble. 54 00:04:25,000 --> 00:04:30,000 Because iMessage is interoperable to an extent. 55 00:04:30,000 --> 00:04:36,000 Yeah, it just sucks. You can message them. It's just you feel like a second-class citizen the entire time. 56 00:04:36,000 --> 00:04:39,000 Yeah. And I'm sure to some people they do. 57 00:04:39,000 --> 00:04:46,000 You know, I'm somebody who my friends and family, nearly all of them use iPhone. 58 00:04:46,000 --> 00:04:49,000 Oh, I am the black sheep of the family group yet. 100%. 59 00:04:49,000 --> 00:04:52,000 Yeah. Actually, two of my brothers are... 60 00:04:52,000 --> 00:04:55,000 I have four brothers. Two of them are Android users. 61 00:04:55,000 --> 00:04:58,000 That's important context. I'm gonna say two of my brothers immediately. 62 00:04:58,000 --> 00:05:02,000 Is there like 12 Riley Murdochs wandering the countryside? 63 00:05:02,000 --> 00:05:06,000 They are. It's a menace. Please be careful out there. 64 00:05:06,000 --> 00:05:13,000 Just mustaches, rustling and bushes? They will laugh awkwardly all the time, just for no reason. 65 00:05:13,000 --> 00:05:20,000 Two of them are Android users and basically every other person in my friends and family circle 66 00:05:20,000 --> 00:05:25,000 are iPhone users. So it is really annoying when I get a... 67 00:05:25,000 --> 00:05:29,000 I'll get messages because it sucks for both parties. 68 00:05:29,000 --> 00:05:33,000 I'll get messages with a photo or video from my parents and they're like, 69 00:05:33,000 --> 00:05:38,000 look at this and they were babysitting my kid the other day and they sent me a video. 70 00:05:38,000 --> 00:05:43,000 And I'm just like... Compressed, blurry. You're just like, I don't remember him being that pixelated when I dropped him off. 71 00:05:43,000 --> 00:05:47,000 It looks like he's either having fun or being disemboweled by a stuffed animal. 72 00:05:47,000 --> 00:05:53,000 I don't know what's going on. You seem excited. I'll judge from context that he's not dead. 73 00:05:53,000 --> 00:05:58,000 Yes, exactly. No, it's designed to annoy both sides of the interaction. 74 00:05:58,000 --> 00:06:02,000 It is designed to annoy the Android users and we're the one who tend to fixate on it, 75 00:06:02,000 --> 00:06:05,000 but it's also intended to annoy iPhone users. 76 00:06:05,000 --> 00:06:08,000 Right, into not doing anything. 77 00:06:08,000 --> 00:06:11,000 Well, that's what I'm confused about. 78 00:06:11,000 --> 00:06:15,000 You want your own users annoyed with... 79 00:06:16,000 --> 00:06:20,000 But I think they're depending on iPhone users on mass, 80 00:06:20,000 --> 00:06:23,000 not really understanding the root cause of the issue. 81 00:06:23,000 --> 00:06:30,000 They don't understand that Apple could fix it. They think the problem is that, oh, I'm texting this broke Android user. 82 00:06:30,000 --> 00:06:34,000 With their inferior device. Yeah, why don't they just buy an iPhone? 83 00:06:34,000 --> 00:06:41,000 And it's like, no, Tim Apple specifically in his giant tower of evil, 84 00:06:42,000 --> 00:06:50,000 he has been plotting to make it so that your grandkids' photos look like absolute messes. 85 00:06:50,000 --> 00:06:54,000 Look upon your photo library and despair. 86 00:06:57,000 --> 00:07:04,000 Oh my gosh. May I just say that I found recently that some people have actually made compilations of me 87 00:07:04,000 --> 00:07:08,000 doing the Tim Cook impression and it made me so happy. 88 00:07:09,000 --> 00:07:12,000 I think there's two big ones that are out there. 89 00:07:12,000 --> 00:07:17,000 Maybe a third one. I don't want to make anyone angry. If you made those, I sincerely thank you. 90 00:07:17,000 --> 00:07:20,000 They are fun. They bring me joy. 91 00:07:20,000 --> 00:07:25,000 But yeah, this iMessage thing, it's gotten North Americans confused 92 00:07:25,000 --> 00:07:29,000 and there was another thing that kind of came out last week 93 00:07:29,000 --> 00:07:32,000 about Apple and the EU and the regulations and whatnot, 94 00:07:32,000 --> 00:07:37,000 which was the Apple's attitude towards progressive web apps. 95 00:07:37,000 --> 00:07:43,000 Can you summarize exactly? This is not something that is in the official build yet. 96 00:07:43,000 --> 00:07:49,000 This is in beta build. And in the past three, so like with the first two, they're like, 97 00:07:49,000 --> 00:07:53,000 oh, this might be a mistake. This might be a glitch. 98 00:07:53,000 --> 00:07:58,000 Right. Now that it's been like three separate builds, Apple has not fixed this. 99 00:07:58,000 --> 00:08:03,000 This was previously functional. They're like, okay, this is probably intentional. 100 00:08:03,000 --> 00:08:06,000 This is probably Apple doing something intentionally, 101 00:08:06,000 --> 00:08:10,000 especially because it's happening at the same time as all of these other changes. 102 00:08:10,000 --> 00:08:16,000 Right. And it's that they are making progressive web apps 103 00:08:16,000 --> 00:08:19,000 non-functional in this build. 104 00:08:19,000 --> 00:08:22,000 So they're just they're breaking them. They're breaking them. 105 00:08:22,000 --> 00:08:25,000 They're breaking them. They're making them no longer act as apps 106 00:08:25,000 --> 00:08:28,000 that you can open from the home screen. You know, boop, there you go. 107 00:08:28,000 --> 00:08:32,000 And they're making them into essentially they function now 108 00:08:32,000 --> 00:08:35,000 as shortcuts that just open a web browser. They just open the web page. 109 00:08:35,000 --> 00:08:40,000 Which, to be fair, is essentially what progressive web apps are. 110 00:08:40,000 --> 00:08:43,000 Right? Yes. They are shortcuts. 111 00:08:43,000 --> 00:08:46,000 They're shortcuts, but they kind of also like some processing 112 00:08:46,000 --> 00:08:51,000 is done on the device and some is done. It's the illicit love child of an app and a web page. 113 00:08:51,000 --> 00:08:55,000 Right. They have features of both. 114 00:08:55,000 --> 00:08:58,000 They do allow you to have like local storage, 115 00:08:58,000 --> 00:09:01,000 which is no longer operable on iOS. 116 00:09:01,000 --> 00:09:06,000 They do allow notifications, which is no longer operable on iOS. 117 00:09:06,000 --> 00:09:10,000 Yeah. And the big thing is about progressive web apps. 118 00:09:10,000 --> 00:09:16,000 Like I don't actually see like a huge user backlash to this. 119 00:09:16,000 --> 00:09:20,000 Yeah. Well, and this is mostly something that the brands themselves 120 00:09:20,000 --> 00:09:23,000 really like. Yeah. 121 00:09:24,000 --> 00:09:27,000 I have, in the years that I've been covering tech news, 122 00:09:27,000 --> 00:09:31,000 I've encountered the idea of progressive web apps, obviously, and I've like seen them, you know. 123 00:09:31,000 --> 00:09:36,000 Yeah, because they support caring for the homeless and they want healthcare. 124 00:09:36,000 --> 00:09:39,000 Progressive web apps. And also they're really convenient. 125 00:09:39,000 --> 00:09:42,000 They open straight from the home page. 126 00:09:42,000 --> 00:09:46,000 They're web apps that push for change. 127 00:09:46,000 --> 00:09:48,000 No. Yeah. 128 00:09:49,000 --> 00:09:53,000 There's sort of changes to the app design 129 00:09:53,000 --> 00:09:58,000 that allows it to kind of like, you know, launch more responsively and, you know, 130 00:09:58,000 --> 00:10:02,000 be a bit easier to use in the way that an app is, 131 00:10:02,000 --> 00:10:06,000 like an actually installed app. But it's basically a website still. 132 00:10:06,000 --> 00:10:10,000 Yes. Because it is, yeah, you're going through a browser. 133 00:10:10,000 --> 00:10:15,000 And in my... It's an Uber web page that operates like the Uber app. 134 00:10:15,000 --> 00:10:20,000 Yeah. Looking these up a little bit just a few minutes ago, 135 00:10:20,000 --> 00:10:24,000 because I asked myself, I'm like, why do these exist? 136 00:10:24,000 --> 00:10:28,000 Who wanted these? Does this really make life better for users 137 00:10:28,000 --> 00:10:32,000 or for like business owners? And it seems like the people who really wanted these 138 00:10:32,000 --> 00:10:35,000 were business owners. I don't want to speak for anyone if you're, 139 00:10:35,000 --> 00:10:39,000 you know, on the user side of this and you're like, I love progressive web apps. 140 00:10:39,000 --> 00:10:42,000 Every time I, you know, go on my browser 141 00:10:42,000 --> 00:10:45,000 and look up a website. We don't mean to invalidate your lived experience. 142 00:10:45,000 --> 00:10:48,000 Yeah. I'd go on a website and it tells me, 143 00:10:48,000 --> 00:10:51,000 maybe you want to switch to the web app or whatever, 144 00:10:51,000 --> 00:10:55,000 and you do that and you're very happy, then fair enough. 145 00:10:55,000 --> 00:11:00,000 But for me, every time that it gave me that prompt on my phone, I'm like, no, just go to the, 146 00:11:00,000 --> 00:11:03,000 just go to the website, please. 147 00:11:03,000 --> 00:11:06,000 Stop. Yeah. And so... 148 00:11:06,000 --> 00:11:09,000 We are old men, so... Yeah, yeah. 149 00:11:09,000 --> 00:11:13,000 We don't like this new fangled business. As far as I can tell, the reason web apps really became a thing 150 00:11:13,000 --> 00:11:16,000 is because they allow businesses 151 00:11:16,000 --> 00:11:19,000 to kind of farm more interaction and engagement 152 00:11:19,000 --> 00:11:22,000 from users when they go to a website. So apparently... 153 00:11:22,000 --> 00:11:25,000 They decreased the friction of getting the consumer 154 00:11:25,000 --> 00:11:28,000 on the app, engaging with the material, 155 00:11:28,000 --> 00:11:31,000 buying the goods. Yeah. 156 00:11:31,000 --> 00:11:35,000 So apparently Pinterest, a 2018 review published by Forbes, 157 00:11:35,000 --> 00:11:38,000 this is just on Wikipedia, found that users of Pinterest's progressive web app 158 00:11:38,000 --> 00:11:42,000 spent 40% more time on the site compared to the previous mobile website. 159 00:11:42,000 --> 00:11:46,000 Revenue increased by 44%, core engagements by 60%. 160 00:11:46,000 --> 00:11:50,000 So I'm like, okay, I understand. You know, because a progressive web app 161 00:11:50,000 --> 00:11:53,000 is a bit easier to use than, like, a lot of mobile sites. 162 00:11:53,000 --> 00:11:56,000 It's a slicker experience. It has less friction, less of those petty annoyances 163 00:11:56,000 --> 00:12:00,000 that make you go, I should really go make something to eat. 164 00:12:00,000 --> 00:12:03,000 I should really go clean the house. 165 00:12:03,000 --> 00:12:06,000 Right. It's easier to just suck you in. 166 00:12:06,000 --> 00:12:09,000 I guess the benefit, though, for users 167 00:12:09,000 --> 00:12:13,000 is that you can have an app... They spend less time with their kids. 168 00:12:13,000 --> 00:12:18,000 And more time sucked into a security. You know, and anything that can get you away. 169 00:12:18,000 --> 00:12:22,000 Just that little bit of a dopamine hit to take away the nigh 170 00:12:22,000 --> 00:12:25,000 unstopping pain of existence. And Apple doesn't want that 171 00:12:25,000 --> 00:12:28,000 because they want your families to remain intact. 172 00:12:28,000 --> 00:12:31,000 Absolutely. And buy more Apple products. 173 00:12:31,000 --> 00:12:35,000 This is a Tim Cook conspiracy 174 00:12:35,000 --> 00:12:40,000 to maintain the traditional family. I'm not going to do another impression. 175 00:12:40,000 --> 00:12:43,000 The... The... The bait didn't work. 176 00:12:43,000 --> 00:12:46,000 We get so excited on the writing team. Every time... 177 00:12:46,000 --> 00:12:49,000 Every time Tim Cook makes an announcement. 178 00:12:49,000 --> 00:12:52,000 I'm like, yes, yes, he's back. Yes. 179 00:12:52,000 --> 00:12:56,000 But the benefit for the users is the fact that you can have, like, 180 00:12:56,000 --> 00:13:01,000 an app-like experience outside of the distribution channel 181 00:13:01,000 --> 00:13:05,000 that is the Apple App Store 182 00:13:06,000 --> 00:13:10,000 or Google Play. So businesses can deliver this sort of 183 00:13:10,000 --> 00:13:13,000 experience to users without going through all... Jumping through all those hoops. 184 00:13:13,000 --> 00:13:17,000 Without necessarily having to use those stores as an intermediary. 185 00:13:17,000 --> 00:13:20,000 Right. And that's why Apple wasn't really a fan of it 186 00:13:20,000 --> 00:13:23,000 to begin with. Apple was never a fan of it. Right. 187 00:13:23,000 --> 00:13:26,000 They caved a bit to pressure. Yeah. 188 00:13:26,000 --> 00:13:29,000 And it looks like they're uncaving. It looks like they're digging out that cave. 189 00:13:29,000 --> 00:13:32,000 Oh, wait. Really? I thought they... 190 00:13:32,000 --> 00:13:35,000 I mean this. Well, they're killing them, right? Yes. 191 00:13:35,000 --> 00:13:38,000 But they didn't want to put them in the first place. Oh, they caved to the pressure to allow... Yeah. 192 00:13:38,000 --> 00:13:41,000 Right, right, right. Another uncaving. Yeah, I get what you're saying. 193 00:13:41,000 --> 00:13:44,000 The cave, you know, I don't do well with cave analogies. They're decaving. 194 00:13:44,000 --> 00:13:47,000 Right. And like, caving is not... 195 00:13:47,000 --> 00:13:51,000 It's something that is not excavating a cave. It just means going inside a cave. 196 00:13:51,000 --> 00:13:54,000 Yes. Splunking. There's that. 197 00:13:54,000 --> 00:13:57,000 Wait, what is caving? 198 00:13:57,000 --> 00:14:00,000 I'm honestly... Well, I mean, 199 00:14:00,000 --> 00:14:03,000 I don't know if there's multiple definitions of the word cave. 200 00:14:03,000 --> 00:14:07,000 I know that like... Caving also known as spelunking. 201 00:14:07,000 --> 00:14:10,000 Yep. And potholing. So... 202 00:14:10,000 --> 00:14:13,000 I have never heard of that before. That's... They're just making them up at this point. 203 00:14:13,000 --> 00:14:17,000 That sounds dirty. Now, does this have anything to do with the EU thing, really? 204 00:14:17,000 --> 00:14:20,000 Because Apple was forced to open up iOS 205 00:14:20,000 --> 00:14:23,000 to third-party app stores. 206 00:14:23,000 --> 00:14:26,000 Sort of, we'll get into that. 207 00:14:26,000 --> 00:14:30,000 Because they were forced to do that, now they're like, well, I guess we don't need progressive web apps, 208 00:14:30,000 --> 00:14:33,000 which was the previous method to kind of like skirt the app store. 209 00:14:33,000 --> 00:14:36,000 Now you're gonna have your very own third-party app store, 210 00:14:36,000 --> 00:14:39,000 instead of the Apple app store on your iPhones. 211 00:14:39,000 --> 00:14:43,000 So you don't need progressive web apps anymore, so they're only killing these... 212 00:14:43,000 --> 00:14:46,000 Are you happy now, developers? Stop crying! 213 00:14:46,000 --> 00:14:49,000 So they're only killing it in the European Union. 214 00:14:49,000 --> 00:14:53,000 Yes, it's exclusive to the EU. And that's another hint, is like, 215 00:14:53,000 --> 00:14:57,000 okay, you're doing this intentionally, it's exclusively in the EU. 216 00:14:57,000 --> 00:15:00,000 Is this a response to the other things going on in the EU? 217 00:15:00,000 --> 00:15:04,000 Because, you know, Apple does do these things to keep regulators happy. 218 00:15:04,000 --> 00:15:08,000 And if it's making a concession another area, 219 00:15:08,000 --> 00:15:14,000 maybe we don't have to make this concession anymore. And of course, as their official explanation, 220 00:15:14,000 --> 00:15:17,000 Apple has to claim that malicious web apps 221 00:15:17,000 --> 00:15:21,000 could read data from other web apps and gain access to a user's camera, 222 00:15:21,000 --> 00:15:26,000 microphone, and location without user consent. And like, think of the user! 223 00:15:26,000 --> 00:15:30,000 When they said similar things like this... For shame! 224 00:15:30,000 --> 00:15:34,000 The user! They said similar. They did scary language like this as well 225 00:15:34,000 --> 00:15:37,000 when they released their, like, new rules for the app store in the EU. 226 00:15:37,000 --> 00:15:40,000 But, like, those things are true... 227 00:15:40,000 --> 00:15:44,000 Yes, they are. ...of any platform, if malware gets it. 228 00:15:44,000 --> 00:15:48,000 So it's like, the... You know, maybe we should talk about this 229 00:15:48,000 --> 00:15:51,000 when we, like, as we talk about the other regulations, 230 00:15:51,000 --> 00:15:54,000 but just quickly, 231 00:15:54,000 --> 00:15:59,000 anytime Apple talks about security as a reason for why they need to lock things down, 232 00:15:59,000 --> 00:16:05,000 it always reads so hollow, because every other platform allows these things 233 00:16:05,000 --> 00:16:08,000 and is able to have reasonable security, 234 00:16:08,000 --> 00:16:13,000 like, reasonable protection. But Apple is the only 235 00:16:13,000 --> 00:16:17,000 massive company, like, overseeing one of these massive platforms used by so many people 236 00:16:17,000 --> 00:16:21,000 who insists that they have to have things locked down 237 00:16:21,000 --> 00:16:24,000 so tight. Mother knows best. It's very paternalistic. 238 00:16:24,000 --> 00:16:28,000 It is. And it's one of those competing values 239 00:16:28,000 --> 00:16:34,000 kind of things where it's like, well, you want these services to be safe, right? 240 00:16:34,000 --> 00:16:37,000 And I do. True. I do. 241 00:16:37,000 --> 00:16:40,000 I very much do. But it's... 242 00:16:40,000 --> 00:16:43,000 The question is not, should this be safe, 243 00:16:43,000 --> 00:16:47,000 is are you balancing this correctly with other concerns? 244 00:16:47,000 --> 00:16:51,000 And largely, 245 00:16:51,000 --> 00:16:54,000 it is almost always the case that Apple is pushing 246 00:16:54,000 --> 00:16:57,000 always like 10% too far. Yeah. 247 00:16:57,000 --> 00:17:00,000 It's 10% too far. And it's interesting because 248 00:17:00,000 --> 00:17:03,000 even when they do kind of open up, 249 00:17:03,000 --> 00:17:06,000 they open up in the most limited way possible, 250 00:17:06,000 --> 00:17:11,000 which... Like a reluctant child who's been told to apologize, 251 00:17:11,000 --> 00:17:16,000 dragging their feet and saying, I'm sorry, I... 252 00:17:16,000 --> 00:17:20,000 Well, but it's even, it's worse than that, because they're not acting petulant or like... 253 00:17:20,000 --> 00:17:23,000 No. Like a kid so much as they... They're acting put upon. 254 00:17:23,000 --> 00:17:26,000 They're acting like a dictator 255 00:17:26,000 --> 00:17:29,000 that was just forced to respect human rights. 256 00:17:29,000 --> 00:17:34,000 Like, they're like, okay, I guess we will allow people... 257 00:17:34,000 --> 00:17:37,000 But just so you know, this is letting the communists win. 258 00:17:37,000 --> 00:17:40,000 Yeah. But just so you know, if we let people out of their cells, 259 00:17:40,000 --> 00:17:43,000 they could punch each other. So on the street. 260 00:17:43,000 --> 00:17:46,000 So everyone needs to stay. That's why we need a curfew. 261 00:17:46,000 --> 00:17:49,000 So that brings me to the App Store rules 262 00:17:49,000 --> 00:17:52,000 that Apple instituted 263 00:17:52,000 --> 00:17:56,000 because they were forced to because there was a deadline... 264 00:17:56,000 --> 00:17:59,000 Or the deadline is coming up. We haven't hit the deadline yet, 265 00:17:59,000 --> 00:18:02,000 but they know that they have to get these rules out and then there's a review process 266 00:18:02,000 --> 00:18:05,000 and like the EU has to approve them and all that stuff and that. 267 00:18:05,000 --> 00:18:12,000 I don't think anything has really moved forward on that. But if I'm not mistaking the deadline is... 268 00:18:12,000 --> 00:18:15,000 It's coming up. March 6th, I believe. 269 00:18:15,000 --> 00:18:18,000 So yeah, Apple is now allowing 270 00:18:18,000 --> 00:18:21,000 third-party app marketplaces, 271 00:18:21,000 --> 00:18:24,000 what they call... Well, they do have the bit of the Kleenex problem 272 00:18:24,000 --> 00:18:27,000 where their word for an App Store 273 00:18:27,000 --> 00:18:30,000 became the default word for an App Store. 274 00:18:30,000 --> 00:18:33,000 Yeah. And I guess they were really like the first big one. 275 00:18:33,000 --> 00:18:37,000 Yeah. They called them Apps. The Play Store is also an App Store. 276 00:18:37,000 --> 00:18:40,000 Not only... So they're saying we're allowing you 277 00:18:40,000 --> 00:18:43,000 to have these third-party App Stores. However, 278 00:18:43,000 --> 00:18:46,000 every app that goes on the 279 00:18:46,000 --> 00:18:50,000 App Marketplace, that is not ours, 280 00:18:50,000 --> 00:18:55,000 we still have to scan it. We still have to make sure that it's cool. 281 00:18:55,000 --> 00:18:58,000 Which is, you know, 282 00:18:58,000 --> 00:19:01,000 somewhat fair on macOS 283 00:19:01,000 --> 00:19:05,000 and on Windows. You can install any app you want 284 00:19:05,000 --> 00:19:08,000 and the system security will scan the app when it's installed 285 00:19:08,000 --> 00:19:12,000 or it'll check it against a list of currently known, you know, 286 00:19:12,000 --> 00:19:15,000 malicious apps or whatever and it'll give you a warning 287 00:19:15,000 --> 00:19:18,000 or whatever. But Apple's saying that 288 00:19:18,000 --> 00:19:22,000 in order for you to publish an app on this other App Store at all, 289 00:19:22,000 --> 00:19:26,000 they need to notarize it. For you to even consider downloading it, 290 00:19:26,000 --> 00:19:29,000 it must pass through a test. 291 00:19:29,000 --> 00:19:33,000 Which is just... And this is... Yeah, it's just so Apple. 292 00:19:33,000 --> 00:19:36,000 If you want to launch an alternate App Marketplace, 293 00:19:36,000 --> 00:19:40,000 you need to have a letter of credit from an A-rated financial institution 294 00:19:40,000 --> 00:19:44,000 and at least a million euros in the bank. 295 00:19:44,000 --> 00:19:48,000 Which I heard some developers say is actually kind of reasonable. 296 00:19:48,000 --> 00:19:52,000 It does mean that they have a backstop in case something terrible happens. 297 00:19:52,000 --> 00:19:55,000 Yeah. Which you do want for a company 298 00:19:55,000 --> 00:19:59,000 that's dealing with very large amounts of refunds, potentially. 299 00:19:59,000 --> 00:20:03,000 Right. But what they're definitely not allowing 300 00:20:03,000 --> 00:20:07,000 is... So, like, there's some progress here. They're definitely not allowing 301 00:20:07,000 --> 00:20:10,000 sideloading. No. People keep saying that. 302 00:20:10,000 --> 00:20:14,000 I've seen articles published in the last week that are saying that Apple is allowing 303 00:20:14,000 --> 00:20:18,000 sideloading. Really? And as far as I can tell, they are not. 304 00:20:18,000 --> 00:20:21,000 I heard... I saw a bunch of initial articles talking about it, 305 00:20:21,000 --> 00:20:25,000 but it's so annoying because you have some people who, I think, 306 00:20:25,000 --> 00:20:29,000 view sideloading as just... Anything that isn't the App Store? 307 00:20:29,000 --> 00:20:32,000 Yeah. Which is like... Well... 308 00:20:32,000 --> 00:20:35,000 Words have meanings. Yeah. Sideloading should mean 309 00:20:35,000 --> 00:20:39,000 going to a website or something or downloading a file, an APK file, 310 00:20:39,000 --> 00:20:42,000 or... Or a package file on... 311 00:20:42,000 --> 00:20:47,000 I don't know what it is on iOS, but... And then double-clicking that file to install it. 312 00:20:47,000 --> 00:20:51,000 And... You're not getting it through an App Store at all. 313 00:20:51,000 --> 00:20:54,000 To me, that's sideloading. But, you know, fair enough, 314 00:20:54,000 --> 00:20:57,000 Apple people, you know, they're in their own world sometimes. 315 00:20:57,000 --> 00:21:00,000 It's like you're calling her your side chick and she's just your wife? What's going on? 316 00:21:00,000 --> 00:21:03,000 I will say... I will say that 317 00:21:03,000 --> 00:21:07,000 every time I talk about Apple, I get self-conscious about whether, like, 318 00:21:07,000 --> 00:21:10,000 Apple people listening to this, people who are Apple fans listening to this 319 00:21:10,000 --> 00:21:13,000 think that I, like, absolutely just hate Apple. And I don't... 320 00:21:13,000 --> 00:21:16,000 I don't at all. I think that they... Every day he walks into the office 321 00:21:16,000 --> 00:21:20,000 and he just punches a picture of Tim Cook. It's just got him on a dartboard. 322 00:21:20,000 --> 00:21:25,000 He doesn't even throw the darts. He just... I will defeat you and take your place. 323 00:21:25,000 --> 00:21:28,000 That's what he's been practicing for. Yeah. 324 00:21:28,000 --> 00:21:31,000 Barbara, come on. Tim Cook's skin suit. 325 00:21:31,000 --> 00:21:35,000 No, I love Apple. I used to be an Apple user 326 00:21:35,000 --> 00:21:39,000 before I got hired at NCIX and, like, just fully got brainwashed 327 00:21:39,000 --> 00:21:42,000 into PC ecosystem. My wife uses Apple. 328 00:21:42,000 --> 00:21:45,000 Everyone, like, a lot of people I know, use Apple and I'm like, 329 00:21:45,000 --> 00:21:48,000 it's good for you. It's good for a certain type of people. They are very high-quality products. 330 00:21:48,000 --> 00:21:52,000 The UI is simple. The design is slick. 331 00:21:52,000 --> 00:21:55,000 And they're easy to use. And they're secure, you know? 332 00:21:55,000 --> 00:21:59,000 They are. For better or worse, the measures that Apple takes 333 00:21:59,000 --> 00:22:03,000 does help these people, these poor people, 334 00:22:03,000 --> 00:22:07,000 who don't know how to use a phone unless Apple tells them how to. 335 00:22:07,000 --> 00:22:10,000 See, I did it again. It's compulsive. 336 00:22:10,000 --> 00:22:14,000 I can't be fully positive. So you got some notes here. 337 00:22:14,000 --> 00:22:19,000 Commissions paid to Apple have been reduced to 10% for most devs 338 00:22:19,000 --> 00:22:22,000 and for subscriptions after the first year. 339 00:22:22,000 --> 00:22:25,000 And then there's a 17% commission 340 00:22:25,000 --> 00:22:30,000 for digital goods and services. And that is if developers choose 341 00:22:30,000 --> 00:22:33,000 to adopt the new business terms. Yes. 342 00:22:33,000 --> 00:22:36,000 They stay on the old business terms 343 00:22:36,000 --> 00:22:40,000 where it's like 30% or 15% depending on what your position is 344 00:22:40,000 --> 00:22:44,000 in the developer marketplace, how popular you are, et cetera, et cetera, 345 00:22:44,000 --> 00:22:47,000 how much revenue you're getting. Et cetera, et cetera. Yeah. 346 00:22:48,000 --> 00:22:51,000 But here's the kicker. 347 00:22:51,000 --> 00:22:54,000 Just from that, it sounds like... Sounds awesome. 348 00:22:54,000 --> 00:22:58,000 It sounds like you should move. But they also introduced... 349 00:22:58,000 --> 00:23:01,000 Oh, so add on to that potential 17%, 350 00:23:01,000 --> 00:23:05,000 3% fee if you still want to use Apple's payment processing. 351 00:23:05,000 --> 00:23:09,000 If you want to use an alternative payment processing, you can drop that 3% fee. 352 00:23:09,000 --> 00:23:13,000 But Apple also introduced an additional core technology fee 353 00:23:13,000 --> 00:23:19,000 of half a euro for each annual install per user 354 00:23:19,000 --> 00:23:22,000 after the app crosses one million installs threshold. 355 00:23:22,000 --> 00:23:26,000 And I am almost positive that they make this 356 00:23:26,000 --> 00:23:29,000 so hard to understand on purpose. Yeah. 357 00:23:30,000 --> 00:23:33,000 If math was your least favorite subject 358 00:23:33,000 --> 00:23:36,000 in school, this is meant to trick you. 359 00:23:36,000 --> 00:23:40,000 Yeah, for sure. Because it doesn't sound like a lot, 360 00:23:40,000 --> 00:23:43,000 but it's super complicated to understand, 361 00:23:43,000 --> 00:23:46,000 to really grok what's going on here. 362 00:23:46,000 --> 00:23:49,000 Yeah. And it took me a while to wrap my head around it. 363 00:23:49,000 --> 00:23:54,000 So essentially, the first time a user goes to install an app 364 00:23:54,000 --> 00:23:58,000 on their device, if they've never installed this app before, 365 00:23:59,000 --> 00:24:02,000 when they install it, the developer will pay half a euro. 366 00:24:02,000 --> 00:24:05,000 Then, that user can install that app 367 00:24:05,000 --> 00:24:09,000 anywhere they want on other devices, and the developer won't be charged 368 00:24:09,000 --> 00:24:13,000 for 12 months. 12 months after the day 369 00:24:13,000 --> 00:24:16,000 that the user installs the app for the first time, 370 00:24:16,000 --> 00:24:19,000 then if they uninstall it and reinstall it 371 00:24:19,000 --> 00:24:23,000 or install it on another device, then the developer will be pinged again. 372 00:24:23,000 --> 00:24:26,000 Yeah, dinged. Not pinged. They won't get a little message 373 00:24:26,000 --> 00:24:28,000 reminding them to reply to an email or something. 374 00:24:30,000 --> 00:24:33,000 Yeah, so. And that happens for every user 375 00:24:35,000 --> 00:24:38,000 after the app has been installed one million times. 376 00:24:38,000 --> 00:24:43,000 So if you've got two million, that's half a million euros in fees. 377 00:24:43,000 --> 00:24:46,000 Yes. And they have a handy calculator 378 00:24:46,000 --> 00:24:50,000 so developers can go and see how much they might lose. 379 00:24:50,000 --> 00:24:53,000 To see how absolutely ruined they're going to be. 380 00:24:53,000 --> 00:24:57,000 Yeah, and most developers, it seems if you have an app 381 00:24:57,000 --> 00:25:00,000 that's popular in any way. To any degree. 382 00:25:00,000 --> 00:25:04,000 But particularly, if you do not have in-app purchases. 383 00:25:04,000 --> 00:25:07,000 Like if you, because I was thinking about my favorite 384 00:25:07,000 --> 00:25:10,000 game back in the day, which was Plants vs. Zombies, 385 00:25:10,000 --> 00:25:14,000 the first one before they ruined it. And in that game, 386 00:25:14,000 --> 00:25:18,000 I only paid for that game once. But I like to redownload it 387 00:25:18,000 --> 00:25:20,000 every few years to play it again. 388 00:25:21,000 --> 00:25:23,000 I would be financially... 389 00:25:24,000 --> 00:25:27,000 Well, the developer would. The developer? No, like I would be punishing them. 390 00:25:27,000 --> 00:25:30,000 Yes, yes. They would be getting punished 391 00:25:30,000 --> 00:25:33,000 for my love. Yeah. Yeah. 392 00:25:33,000 --> 00:25:36,000 My affection and my nostalgia for this game 393 00:25:36,000 --> 00:25:40,000 and the fact that they're not pushy with in-app purchases 394 00:25:40,000 --> 00:25:43,000 that you don't, it's not a live service game 395 00:25:43,000 --> 00:25:47,000 that's constantly trying to suck the life out of you. That would actually be penalized 396 00:25:47,000 --> 00:25:50,000 by this kind of game, this kind of payment structure. 397 00:25:50,000 --> 00:25:54,000 And Apple has said that they are like, oh, we're going to protect against 398 00:25:55,000 --> 00:25:58,000 people... Maliciously doing this. Yeah, people taking advantage of the system 399 00:25:58,000 --> 00:26:01,000 if they want to like cancel developers. But you can also just 400 00:26:01,000 --> 00:26:04,000 unmaliciously be severely punished by this. Yeah. 401 00:26:04,000 --> 00:26:07,000 And that's actually far more likely. I think it was such whiplash, 402 00:26:07,000 --> 00:26:11,000 oh, and one more thing, that core technology fee of half a euro, 403 00:26:11,000 --> 00:26:14,000 it applies to alternate-app 404 00:26:14,000 --> 00:26:17,000 marketplaces for every install. They don't need to wait... 405 00:26:17,000 --> 00:26:20,000 They are not protected by the one million install threshold. 406 00:26:20,000 --> 00:26:25,000 Yeah, so you don't have to wait for an app marketplace to be installed a million times. 407 00:26:25,000 --> 00:26:28,000 Now, all of these numbers, 408 00:26:28,000 --> 00:26:32,000 does it only have to be installed one million times in the EU? 409 00:26:33,000 --> 00:26:36,000 Presumably. I feel like that's true. Presumably. 410 00:26:36,000 --> 00:26:40,000 Yeah, it must be. It'd be weird if it wasn't. It'd be weird if like, 411 00:26:40,000 --> 00:26:43,000 you had like a million installs in like, 412 00:26:43,000 --> 00:26:46,000 I don't know, Tajikistan. Yeah. 413 00:26:46,000 --> 00:26:50,000 And you had one install over that limit in the EU, 414 00:26:50,000 --> 00:26:53,000 and suddenly you owed Apple like a dollar. 415 00:26:53,000 --> 00:26:56,000 Yeah. So there's like, there's sort of... 416 00:26:56,000 --> 00:27:00,000 That's not intuitive. There's sort of a... 417 00:27:00,000 --> 00:27:04,000 You can see Apple's side here a little bit, because as we've said, 418 00:27:04,000 --> 00:27:08,000 EU people say again and again how not popular iPhones are 419 00:27:08,000 --> 00:27:12,000 and iMessages in Europe. Although iPhone is more popular than iMessage. 420 00:27:12,000 --> 00:27:15,000 That's true. A lot of people will still have iPhones. Download WhatsApp on it. 421 00:27:15,000 --> 00:27:19,000 Yeah, for sure. WhatsApp gets dinged. 422 00:27:19,000 --> 00:27:23,000 But yeah, this came out and the news came out 423 00:27:23,000 --> 00:27:27,000 and it seemed like, oh my gosh, the EU got Apple. 424 00:27:27,000 --> 00:27:30,000 You know, they... We've been forcing... 425 00:27:30,000 --> 00:27:33,000 They basically forced them to put USB-C in the iPhone. 426 00:27:33,000 --> 00:27:36,000 Yes. Apple finally caved to that, 427 00:27:36,000 --> 00:27:40,000 I think before they really had to, but like, they made it clear, 428 00:27:40,000 --> 00:27:43,000 I think at some point, I remember a press release. 429 00:27:43,000 --> 00:27:46,000 They knew it was inevitable. About how they were like, it was worse, 430 00:27:46,000 --> 00:27:49,000 but we're doing it anyway, I guess. For you. 431 00:27:49,000 --> 00:27:52,000 Even though the connector's better than lightning, whatever. 432 00:27:52,000 --> 00:27:55,000 I don't know if it's... If it's like a factual thing, 433 00:27:55,000 --> 00:27:59,000 I always felt that the lightning connectors wore out faster. 434 00:27:59,000 --> 00:28:03,000 The actual connector that's themselves are pretty robust. 435 00:28:03,000 --> 00:28:06,000 But like the... I found the cables fraying. 436 00:28:06,000 --> 00:28:10,000 The cables fray like anything else. Like nothing else. 437 00:28:10,000 --> 00:28:14,000 Yeah. Or maybe that's because I was jumping a rope with them. 438 00:28:14,000 --> 00:28:17,000 That'll do it. Apple... 439 00:28:17,000 --> 00:28:20,000 I got whiplash when we reported on this. 440 00:28:20,000 --> 00:28:23,000 It was like, wow, you got Apple. 441 00:28:23,000 --> 00:28:27,000 And then the more you read into it, the more like, oh, this is why 442 00:28:27,000 --> 00:28:31,000 people called it malicious compliance. However, one other thing that came out 443 00:28:31,000 --> 00:28:37,000 at the same time was Apple announced that globally, gaming apps, 444 00:28:37,000 --> 00:28:41,000 cloud gaming apps can now list all of their library and have their 445 00:28:41,000 --> 00:28:46,000 library of games accessible from within the iOS app on the App Store, 446 00:28:46,000 --> 00:28:50,000 which was not allowed before. Yeah, they'll list them all individually. 447 00:28:50,000 --> 00:28:53,000 Well, that's what Apple wanted them to do. Like Xbox and... 448 00:28:53,000 --> 00:28:57,000 Resident Evil 1, Resident Evil 2, Resident Evil 3, Code Veronica. 449 00:28:57,000 --> 00:29:01,000 Xbox basically said, yeah, no, we're not doing that. 450 00:29:01,000 --> 00:29:06,000 And then they just had the web app basically. You could go to gforcinalo.com 451 00:29:06,000 --> 00:29:10,000 or Xbox, Game Pass or whatever, and you could use the browser to stream games, 452 00:29:10,000 --> 00:29:15,000 but it's not a great solution. So at least that's the one thing 453 00:29:15,000 --> 00:29:18,000 that they unequivocally gave ground on. 454 00:29:18,000 --> 00:29:23,000 But the rest of it, it remains to be seen 455 00:29:23,000 --> 00:29:26,000 how the whole Apple versus the EU situation 456 00:29:26,000 --> 00:29:30,000 will continue to play out here. Where do you see things going from here? 457 00:29:30,000 --> 00:29:33,000 Do you see the EU calling Apple out on this 458 00:29:33,000 --> 00:29:37,000 and being like, no, this is not good enough, or are they gonna do a similar thing 459 00:29:37,000 --> 00:29:41,000 that they did with iMessage, because they know that iMessage qualifies, 460 00:29:41,000 --> 00:29:44,000 but it's only their jurisdiction in Europe. 461 00:29:44,000 --> 00:29:48,000 It makes kind of sense. It has a lot to do with just how we're defining 462 00:29:48,000 --> 00:29:52,000 what a market is. If we're only defining it as the EU 463 00:29:52,000 --> 00:29:56,000 and we're only defining it as... A lot of antitrust is like that, 464 00:29:56,000 --> 00:30:00,000 and it can be quite frustrating, because it feels like, principally, 465 00:30:00,000 --> 00:30:04,000 you should be doing it this way, but no, it is done by rule. 466 00:30:04,000 --> 00:30:09,000 It is done by these esoteric, very specific principles that are... 467 00:30:09,000 --> 00:30:12,000 We have been using legally as jurisprudence 468 00:30:12,000 --> 00:30:17,000 for hundreds of years, and they don't really make a lot of sense 469 00:30:17,000 --> 00:30:21,000 unless you're very immersed in them. Yeah, I mean... 470 00:30:21,000 --> 00:30:24,000 But I do think that Apple's going to get 471 00:30:24,000 --> 00:30:28,000 significantly more pushback for what they've been doing with the App Store 472 00:30:28,000 --> 00:30:32,000 than they will for... I do not think it's going to go... 473 00:30:32,000 --> 00:30:38,000 Maybe they're not going... Maybe regulators are not going to 474 00:30:38,000 --> 00:30:42,000 push them that hard, but I cannot imagine they'll just give them 475 00:30:42,000 --> 00:30:46,000 a complete carve-out and accept these new rules. Yeah, they're just... 476 00:30:46,000 --> 00:30:50,000 They're ridiculous, because... They seem actively worse 477 00:30:50,000 --> 00:30:54,000 than the rules they were forced to change. Developers basically have a choice between 478 00:30:54,000 --> 00:30:58,000 sticking with Apple's old rules, which are the proper right rules 479 00:30:58,000 --> 00:31:02,000 that you should follow, or switching to this new system 480 00:31:02,000 --> 00:31:06,000 because they really, really, really want to launch a third-party... 481 00:31:06,000 --> 00:31:10,000 Their apps on their third-party App Store, or like Epic, they want to launch their own 482 00:31:10,000 --> 00:31:14,000 third-party App Store. But by doing that, 483 00:31:14,000 --> 00:31:18,000 they're getting so much worse of a deal. A hefty financial penalty. 484 00:31:18,000 --> 00:31:22,000 And basically the only people... Epic has said, 485 00:31:22,000 --> 00:31:26,000 we're going to launch Fortnite on iOS through the Epic Game Store 486 00:31:26,000 --> 00:31:30,000 when we launch that as a new App Marketplace later this year. 487 00:31:30,000 --> 00:31:34,000 But... Like the Epic Game Store, 488 00:31:34,000 --> 00:31:38,000 which is to be an exercise in losing money because they're going to be... 489 00:31:38,000 --> 00:31:42,000 They're still going to be paying Apple crazy amounts of fees if they do this. 490 00:31:42,000 --> 00:31:46,000 Through the notes. I half expect them to just say, 491 00:31:46,000 --> 00:31:50,000 like, you know what, we're still not going to do it, because I feel like they wanted to take this win 492 00:31:50,000 --> 00:31:54,000 quote-unquote... They wanted to revel a little bit 493 00:31:54,000 --> 00:31:58,000 in Apple being forced to allow third-party App Stores 494 00:31:58,000 --> 00:32:02,000 by saying, haha! We are going to launch our App Store 495 00:32:02,000 --> 00:32:06,000 at all before. Now they can do it. But it's going to be like... 496 00:32:06,000 --> 00:32:10,000 At what cost? At a big one. 497 00:32:10,000 --> 00:32:14,000 But the thing is, we're not the only ones who are aware of this. 498 00:32:14,000 --> 00:32:18,000 Regulators are likely to be aware that offering someone 499 00:32:18,000 --> 00:32:22,000 a choice that technically exists but is effectively the 500 00:32:22,000 --> 00:32:26,000 exact same choice as before. It's just like, well, like previously 501 00:32:26,000 --> 00:32:30,000 I said you could go by my rules and now you have the option of going by my rules 502 00:32:30,000 --> 00:32:34,000 by stepping into this bear trap. Yeah. 503 00:32:34,000 --> 00:32:38,000 I cannot imagine that will fly. Yeah. 504 00:32:38,000 --> 00:32:42,000 And then there's the whole question of whether the EU should be attempting 505 00:32:42,000 --> 00:32:46,000 to regulate these companies in this way. Because 506 00:32:46,000 --> 00:32:50,000 as far as... So far 507 00:32:50,000 --> 00:32:54,000 it seems like the EU has kind of put through regulations 508 00:32:54,000 --> 00:32:58,000 that, at least to us in the tech sphere, we don't... 509 00:32:58,000 --> 00:33:02,000 We aren't really involved in keeping up with European 510 00:33:02,000 --> 00:33:06,000 regulations in non-tech... Speak for yourself. 511 00:33:06,000 --> 00:33:10,000 Sure. Potholes. 512 00:33:10,000 --> 00:33:14,000 And we can't talk about it now even if we are caught up with it. 513 00:33:14,000 --> 00:33:18,000 But with other areas of politics we're not going to delve into like, 514 00:33:18,000 --> 00:33:22,000 oh, the EU is regulating healthcare or all these things, right? 515 00:33:22,000 --> 00:33:26,000 Should there be a tariff on Brussels brown? Yeah, exactly. 516 00:33:26,000 --> 00:33:30,000 As far as that, we like what the EU has done so far 517 00:33:30,000 --> 00:33:34,000 broadly. But the question becomes 518 00:33:34,000 --> 00:33:38,000 when do they stop? At what point will the EU say, 519 00:33:38,000 --> 00:33:42,000 all right, that's enough regulation now. The market is 520 00:33:42,000 --> 00:33:46,000 sufficiently de-freedomized a little bit 521 00:33:46,000 --> 00:33:50,000 so that it's a bit more fair. But I 522 00:33:50,000 --> 00:33:54,000 hope that they stop at the right point instead of just 523 00:33:54,000 --> 00:33:58,000 regulations on companies such that because 524 00:33:58,000 --> 00:34:02,000 sometimes you can foster innovation other times you can stifle innovation 525 00:34:02,000 --> 00:34:06,000 with regulations, so I don't know. I don't live in Europe. 526 00:34:06,000 --> 00:34:10,000 We live in Canada. Which is essentially the Europe of North America. 527 00:34:10,000 --> 00:34:14,000 I think you offended a lot of Europeans there. 528 00:34:14,000 --> 00:34:18,000 And I'm glad. Primarily because it's a country and not... 529 00:34:18,000 --> 00:34:22,000 Okay, well let me say goodbye to the Europeans in their own language. 530 00:34:22,000 --> 00:34:26,000 Thank you for watching, guys. Um... 531 00:34:26,000 --> 00:34:30,000 Don't forget to subscribe to TechLanged. 532 00:34:30,000 --> 00:34:34,000 See you. That might be too offensive 533 00:34:34,000 --> 00:34:38,000 to include in the video. But I'm not going to do an alternative 534 00:34:38,000 --> 00:34:40,000 so we're forced to use it.