{"video_id":"fp_Ktb0ge5uqj","title":"Must IP Law be deleted to beat China? - TalkLinked","channel":"TechLinked","show":"TechLinked","published_at":"2025-04-22T01:40:00.053Z","duration_s":2207,"segments":[{"start_s":0.0,"end_s":9.2,"text":"You'll own no IP at all and you'll be happy I will be sad what nope not allowed","speaker":null,"is_sponsor":0},{"start_s":10.4,"end_s":13.8,"text":"That's a case of rules the AI will stop you from being sad","speaker":null,"is_sponsor":0},{"start_s":14.36,"end_s":19.92,"text":"How could you be sad when you live in a utopia where everything's controlled and oh everything's generated?","speaker":null,"is_sponsor":0},{"start_s":20.92,"end_s":26.12,"text":"What are we talking about here Luke's powered by the the IP grinding machine? We're talking about","speaker":null,"is_sponsor":0},{"start_s":26.96,"end_s":34.24,"text":"IP we're talking about AI policy we're talking about how this stuff is gonna possibly work because there's a huge battle going on between","speaker":null,"is_sponsor":0},{"start_s":34.68,"end_s":37.6,"text":"North American and European AI companies and","speaker":null,"is_sponsor":0},{"start_s":38.8,"end_s":43.8,"text":"mostly Chinese AI companies deep-seek came and took everyone's lunch and what are we gonna do?","speaker":null,"is_sponsor":0},{"start_s":44.12,"end_s":48.24,"text":"You it's like you host a stream or something you've done this before maybe","speaker":null,"is_sponsor":0},{"start_s":49.16,"end_s":53.76,"text":"We haven't done a talk linked in a in a hot second, but then and you've never been on no","speaker":null,"is_sponsor":0},{"start_s":53.8,"end_s":57.44,"text":"I'm so excited. Yeah, and also get you get to talk about AI","speaker":null,"is_sponsor":0},{"start_s":57.96,"end_s":64.48,"text":"Wait, I just when Linus doesn't let you know on when he whips me as soon as you get to a AI topic","speaker":null,"is_sponsor":0},{"start_s":65.0,"end_s":70.76,"text":"And I know this because I prepare the topic sometimes. Yeah, I'm like, oh they're gonna like this topic","speaker":null,"is_sponsor":0},{"start_s":70.76,"end_s":73.88,"text":"I stopped preparing them because he just gets there and he goes on his phone","speaker":null,"is_sponsor":0},{"start_s":73.88,"end_s":78.32,"text":"Yeah, he has literally done that and then he'll get at me for not paying attention during other topics","speaker":null,"is_sponsor":0},{"start_s":78.32,"end_s":81.44,"text":"But whatever yeah, but now you get to talk about it","speaker":null,"is_sponsor":0},{"start_s":81.44,"end_s":86.76,"text":"So the the the kind of impetus for all of this was Jack Dorsey the founder","speaker":null,"is_sponsor":0},{"start_s":87.4,"end_s":93.7,"text":"Former CEO of Twitter. Yeah now X which I still call Twitter. Yeah, tweeting","speaker":null,"is_sponsor":0},{"start_s":93.88,"end_s":103.24,"text":"delete all IP law on April 11th and it kind of sparked some discourse. Yeah, that's that's part of what in my opinion are like the three","speaker":null,"is_sponsor":0},{"start_s":103.6,"end_s":110.2,"text":"Core topics around AI policy right now, which I laid out as open versus closed models","speaker":null,"is_sponsor":0},{"start_s":110.32,"end_s":114.24,"text":"Copyright and IP reform and AI safety versus innovation speed. Oh heck","speaker":null,"is_sponsor":0},{"start_s":114.24,"end_s":119.6,"text":"I think that's like one of the really core things is what do we do with IP law?","speaker":null,"is_sponsor":0},{"start_s":119.6,"end_s":123.16,"text":"Because when you're looking at the the race for AI stuff","speaker":null,"is_sponsor":0},{"start_s":123.2,"end_s":128.56,"text":"It's becoming more and more like country or alliance based instead of company based","speaker":null,"is_sponsor":0},{"start_s":128.56,"end_s":135.56,"text":"Yeah, a lot of people are looking at it like okay the the West versus the East I guess or right now basically deep-seek v","speaker":null,"is_sponsor":0},{"start_s":135.56,"end_s":137.56,"text":"everyone yeah, yeah, and","speaker":null,"is_sponsor":0},{"start_s":138.56,"end_s":147.92,"text":"There are differences in how the West and China deal with IP law. Do I understand Chinese IP law?","speaker":null,"is_sponsor":0},{"start_s":148.36,"end_s":155.68,"text":"Not even sort of yeah Yeah, I kind of started to Google it in preparation for this and I'm kind of like oh this is gonna be too too complicated","speaker":null,"is_sponsor":0},{"start_s":155.88,"end_s":161.96,"text":"What my not enough googling has told me is that they are much more lax on IP law","speaker":null,"is_sponsor":0},{"start_s":162.2,"end_s":166.84,"text":"Especially when it comes to outside of their own country, but also within their own country and","speaker":null,"is_sponsor":0},{"start_s":167.28,"end_s":172.4,"text":"Especially especially when it has to do with anything that could benefit the state right because over here","speaker":null,"is_sponsor":0},{"start_s":172.4,"end_s":177.76,"text":"You know the the North American kind of capitalist mindset is like focused right?","speaker":null,"is_sponsor":0},{"start_s":177.76,"end_s":183.16,"text":"It's like let people go out there struggle whoever rises at the top is good and China also does that","speaker":null,"is_sponsor":0},{"start_s":183.16,"end_s":189.36,"text":"I know they do that with like but but it's more like it's like they the government directs these little experiments to happen","speaker":null,"is_sponsor":0},{"start_s":190.36,"end_s":196.94,"text":"So if something is like oh, this will be beneficial to the nation then they can just kind of override","speaker":null,"is_sponsor":0},{"start_s":196.96,"end_s":201.12,"text":"Yeah, the I just make it happen. Yeah, which which when you're in a race like this","speaker":null,"is_sponsor":0},{"start_s":201.8,"end_s":211.72,"text":"Could be very beneficial When the other side the West is like squabbling over are we even allowing these companies to access this data at all?","speaker":null,"is_sponsor":0},{"start_s":211.8,"end_s":216.68,"text":"Which I think what a lot of the argument hinges on right is like the","speaker":null,"is_sponsor":0},{"start_s":217.6,"end_s":222.2,"text":"morality around letting these gigantic companies that don't care about you and","speaker":null,"is_sponsor":0},{"start_s":223.16,"end_s":227.92,"text":"Want to loot you for everything you have? Mm-hmm take all of your IP as well or","speaker":null,"is_sponsor":0},{"start_s":229.2,"end_s":233.48,"text":"Lose the whole race and have it not matter anyways because a company in another country","speaker":null,"is_sponsor":0},{"start_s":233.48,"end_s":239.08,"text":"That's just gonna do that anyways ends up winning. Yeah, so so for me argument for me","speaker":null,"is_sponsor":0},{"start_s":239.08,"end_s":245.28,"text":"The there's kind of too well there might be more than two but the two perspectives that are kind of popping into my head here are the","speaker":null,"is_sponsor":0},{"start_s":245.8,"end_s":256.4,"text":"like Philosophical argument for AI copyright like as a society just regardless of like, you know where China's at do we think that AI?","speaker":null,"is_sponsor":0},{"start_s":256.92,"end_s":263.72,"text":"Created stuff deserves copyright. Do we think that AI a model could count as the author of something?","speaker":null,"is_sponsor":0},{"start_s":263.72,"end_s":266.68,"text":"There's all those questions and then there's the kind of more utilitarian","speaker":null,"is_sponsor":0},{"start_s":267.44,"end_s":272.12,"text":"Like practical question of like is this what we have to do in order to","speaker":null,"is_sponsor":0},{"start_s":272.76,"end_s":280.44,"text":"Keep up in the nuclear AI arms race with China. So which of those is more interesting to you? Well, I think right now the","speaker":null,"is_sponsor":0},{"start_s":281.64,"end_s":286.48,"text":"Canon AI have ownership over something that it creates thing","speaker":null,"is_sponsor":0},{"start_s":287.96,"end_s":293.32,"text":"Is is Technically somewhat decided in law right now and it's no","speaker":null,"is_sponsor":0},{"start_s":293.96,"end_s":299.48,"text":"Right. Well, it can can an AI model count as the author. Yeah. Yeah, I think no right now","speaker":null,"is_sponsor":0},{"start_s":299.48,"end_s":305.2,"text":"It's no. Yeah, the copyright office has ruled a couple times. I think at least yeah about","speaker":null,"is_sponsor":0},{"start_s":306.2,"end_s":309.28,"text":"There's multiple precedents. I think there's one guy in particular","speaker":null,"is_sponsor":0},{"start_s":309.28,"end_s":315.48,"text":"We'll look it up later Maybe but like there's one guy in particular who has submitted multiple times to be like, okay","speaker":null,"is_sponsor":0},{"start_s":315.48,"end_s":318.08,"text":"This is definitely one for sure guys","speaker":null,"is_sponsor":0},{"start_s":318.6,"end_s":325.56,"text":"But I used an AI this time and this time this AI is sentient for sure guys and the copyright office is like stop coming back here","speaker":null,"is_sponsor":0},{"start_s":326.44,"end_s":330.88,"text":"And put on some pants. So there's precedent against that dude. Yeah. Yeah","speaker":null,"is_sponsor":0},{"start_s":330.88,"end_s":337.32,"text":"Yeah, but I mean, I think that the the like do do we get to keep copyright in an era where","speaker":null,"is_sponsor":0},{"start_s":337.48,"end_s":341.24,"text":"All these companies are just kind of gobbling everything up anyway","speaker":null,"is_sponsor":0},{"start_s":341.72,"end_s":347.24,"text":"Like that those are the interesting lawsuits that are moving through the big one being opening. I versus the New York Times","speaker":null,"is_sponsor":0},{"start_s":347.32,"end_s":352.92,"text":"Yeah It's so interesting like chat GBT has been out since","speaker":null,"is_sponsor":0},{"start_s":353.44,"end_s":359.2,"text":"2022 and obviously transformer based LLMs. They were out for a while. I mean they were in research","speaker":null,"is_sponsor":0},{"start_s":360.28,"end_s":366.12,"text":"Scenarios, but attention is all you need. It's been yeah, it's 2017. Yeah, I've done research","speaker":null,"is_sponsor":0},{"start_s":366.12,"end_s":370.2,"text":"I can't believe that this question is still kind of as open as it is","speaker":null,"is_sponsor":0},{"start_s":370.2,"end_s":375.48,"text":"I would have expected there to be some precedent set and a ruling set by that by now","speaker":null,"is_sponsor":0},{"start_s":375.48,"end_s":381.96,"text":"But we're still just kind of like, you know meta just is also going through proceedings where they're like you","speaker":null,"is_sponsor":0},{"start_s":382.76,"end_s":389.68,"text":"You literally torrented like every book ever. I mean not that you know, but like a massive archive of books","speaker":null,"is_sponsor":0},{"start_s":389.68,"end_s":394.2,"text":"Yeah, and like that's the that's the and this I'm not the first person to reference this at all","speaker":null,"is_sponsor":0},{"start_s":394.2,"end_s":397.96,"text":"But one of the co-founders. I think of reddit","speaker":null,"is_sponsor":0},{"start_s":398.52,"end_s":404.36,"text":"Mm-hmm. I was out so Hainian. I don't remember the exact details of this story, but I believe he was pirating","speaker":null,"is_sponsor":0},{"start_s":405.48,"end_s":409.08,"text":"Like research papers and then making them available to people for free","speaker":null,"is_sponsor":0},{"start_s":409.72,"end_s":413.8,"text":"I think yeah, and then he was gonna get thrown in jail forever and ended up","speaker":null,"is_sponsor":0},{"start_s":414.76,"end_s":422.36,"text":"Unaliving oh oh over it because it like ruined his whole life. Wait Aaron Schwartz. You know what Aaron Schwartz?","speaker":null,"is_sponsor":0},{"start_s":422.36,"end_s":428.6,"text":"Oh, okay. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. No, I'm familiar. Yeah. Yeah, and then now a company's doing it on a much grander scale","speaker":null,"is_sponsor":0},{"start_s":428.84,"end_s":433.56,"text":"Like oh, you know what that seems fine. That totally reminds me","speaker":null,"is_sponsor":0},{"start_s":433.56,"end_s":439.24,"text":"I saw an article recently like referencing Aaron Schwartz. Yeah, and like how bonkers it is. It's like actually","speaker":null,"is_sponsor":0},{"start_s":439.88,"end_s":446.52,"text":"kind of similar Well, it's it's crazy that that was the case just a few years ago","speaker":null,"is_sponsor":0},{"start_s":446.52,"end_s":455.4,"text":"Yeah, and really not that long ago. He was his entire life was gonna be ruined. Yep, and now we have every tech company ever is just","speaker":null,"is_sponsor":0},{"start_s":456.36,"end_s":463.0,"text":"Gobbling up. I mean I had as one of the points I wanted to talk about these like AI web crawlers that are","speaker":null,"is_sponsor":0},{"start_s":464.12,"end_s":466.44,"text":"Taking up tons of bandwidth. Oh, yeah","speaker":null,"is_sponsor":0},{"start_s":467.24,"end_s":472.92,"text":"We've referenced it a couple times on TechLinked But there are like a number of studies now and like reports from","speaker":null,"is_sponsor":0},{"start_s":473.8,"end_s":478.92,"text":"Administrators being like yeah, we looked into it and it's like 80 percent of our web traffic is just AI crawlers","speaker":null,"is_sponsor":0},{"start_s":479.24,"end_s":483.16,"text":"so regardless we can I don't want to bash on AI completely because","speaker":null,"is_sponsor":0},{"start_s":483.88,"end_s":490.68,"text":"I feel like there's an argument here and like for for AI for embedding it in","speaker":null,"is_sponsor":0},{"start_s":491.32,"end_s":496.2,"text":"society at every level for even maybe deleting all IP law","speaker":null,"is_sponsor":0},{"start_s":497.08,"end_s":502.68,"text":"And the argument would be is if it's actually if it if it actually leads to this","speaker":null,"is_sponsor":0},{"start_s":503.8,"end_s":510.04,"text":"Scenario that Jack Dorsey and apparently Elon Musk and whoever because Elon Musk tweeted as well. I agree","speaker":null,"is_sponsor":0},{"start_s":510.68,"end_s":515.24,"text":"To delete all IP law Yeah, if the argument by","speaker":null,"is_sponsor":0},{"start_s":515.8,"end_s":521.24,"text":"Putting being put forward by them. They're like, okay. This is actually going to help us. It's actually going to lead to a situation where we benefit","speaker":null,"is_sponsor":0},{"start_s":522.52,"end_s":529.4,"text":"Do we like if you could know deleting all IP law will lead to a kind of a utopian society where you don't need money","speaker":null,"is_sponsor":0},{"start_s":530.2,"end_s":535.96,"text":"It feels like you know, there's a bunch of stories that are like this where you have utopian society and then like in the basement of city hall","speaker":null,"is_sponsor":0},{"start_s":536.04,"end_s":545.24,"text":"there's just like A terrible demon machine that is like the reason why everything's okay. I feel like this is one of those scenarios. I I don't think","speaker":null,"is_sponsor":0},{"start_s":546.92,"end_s":553.64,"text":"And I'm decently confident. This is the route. It's going to go to I don't think deleting IP law is like the way to go","speaker":null,"is_sponsor":0},{"start_s":553.8,"end_s":558.2,"text":"I feel like what they're trying to do is like gambit and overcorrection","speaker":null,"is_sponsor":0},{"start_s":558.68,"end_s":564.76,"text":"So they're trying to be like, let's delete everything hoping that they'll end up somewhere 50% of the way","speaker":null,"is_sponsor":0},{"start_s":565.0,"end_s":569.96,"text":"If that makes sense because I don't think they think that's going to happen either to be completely honest","speaker":null,"is_sponsor":0},{"start_s":570.36,"end_s":573.56,"text":"But I think they're trying to do the like Trumpian move of like","speaker":null,"is_sponsor":0},{"start_s":574.28,"end_s":579.56,"text":"I'm going to ask for this and then I'll send end up somewhere here, you know, we'll delete half of IP law","speaker":null,"is_sponsor":0},{"start_s":579.64,"end_s":585.96,"text":"Yeah, well, I think it's going to be IP reform Because like a lot of the laws that were made weren't even really made","speaker":null,"is_sponsor":0},{"start_s":587.0,"end_s":594.12,"text":"In the internet age let alone Let alone the the like AI web crawler crazy situation. We are now","speaker":null,"is_sponsor":0},{"start_s":594.36,"end_s":601.48,"text":"So it's likely a lot of modernization and reform that needs to happen. I mean, we even have this problem with like youtube videos","speaker":null,"is_sponsor":0},{"start_s":601.96,"end_s":608.6,"text":"Um, like there's this huge question mark of like, can I have a clip from a movie in my video?","speaker":null,"is_sponsor":0},{"start_s":609.24,"end_s":614.36,"text":"Yeah, like maybe but also maybe not. Yeah, I've been scared to put anything","speaker":null,"is_sponsor":0},{"start_s":614.76,"end_s":620.36,"text":"Yeah, that could go over the line But then like all short form content seems to just be able to use whatever music they want","speaker":null,"is_sponsor":0},{"start_s":620.44,"end_s":623.96,"text":"Yeah, and like that seems fine. I guess that's completely different luke","speaker":null,"is_sponsor":0},{"start_s":624.52,"end_s":628.12,"text":"It's whole totally different one is watched by young people","speaker":null,"is_sponsor":0},{"start_s":629.08,"end_s":632.76,"text":"And the other they don't have money. Why do they matter? They don't they're too dumb","speaker":null,"is_sponsor":0},{"start_s":632.84,"end_s":640.12,"text":"They're young and dumb. They don't know about copyright Yeah, elijah one of the parallels that I would draw is to patents and it's not perfect","speaker":null,"is_sponsor":0},{"start_s":640.68,"end_s":647.4,"text":"But it's it's an interesting argument because there's a huge debate on whether or not patents have driven or stifled innovation in the past","speaker":null,"is_sponsor":0},{"start_s":647.8,"end_s":652.68,"text":"And I think it really depends on the time the country","speaker":null,"is_sponsor":0},{"start_s":653.24,"end_s":656.28,"text":"The the field of innovation like it depends on tons of stuff","speaker":null,"is_sponsor":0},{"start_s":656.76,"end_s":661.8,"text":"A lot of people this is the right brothers conversation. I warned you but a lot of people look at the right brothers and are like","speaker":null,"is_sponsor":0},{"start_s":662.6,"end_s":670.12,"text":"Oh my god, they brought in avi. This is amazing, right? We didn't we didn't think we were gonna fly for a long time and then the right brothers got us up in the air","speaker":null,"is_sponsor":0},{"start_s":670.68,"end_s":676.68,"text":"That's true. That's sick. That's cool. They immediately turned into patent trolls as far as my understanding goes","speaker":null,"is_sponsor":0},{"start_s":676.76,"end_s":680.2,"text":"I could be wrong about this a little bit of online research led me to find that","speaker":null,"is_sponsor":0},{"start_s":680.44,"end_s":682.44,"text":"They got their patent and then just","speaker":null,"is_sponsor":0},{"start_s":684.44,"end_s":689.24,"text":"Just wrecked everyone else as much as they could and like very close to stopped innovating","speaker":null,"is_sponsor":0},{"start_s":689.32,"end_s":694.68,"text":"Oh, jeez. They they like got aviation off the ground and then just tried to make money off of what they did","speaker":null,"is_sponsor":0},{"start_s":694.92,"end_s":701.88,"text":"Did you get this info from grok? No, okay, but there's also like in my opinion the","speaker":null,"is_sponsor":0},{"start_s":703.16,"end_s":709.08,"text":"Which I don't think is as common anymore, but being an inventor as your trade as like what you do","speaker":null,"is_sponsor":0},{"start_s":710.44,"end_s":719.08,"text":"Probably became a thing Because of things like patents and ip law. Oh, yeah, he's an inventory like no one has thought of you know, uh automatic egg","speaker":null,"is_sponsor":0},{"start_s":719.24,"end_s":724.12,"text":"Making machine or something It's a chicken at one point","speaker":null,"is_sponsor":0},{"start_s":724.76,"end_s":727.56,"text":"ip law, copyright law patent law, whatever, uh","speaker":null,"is_sponsor":0},{"start_s":728.28,"end_s":735.24,"text":"Spurred innovation and if we get rid of it, you're worried that we would lose that there's but there's there's stories in both sides because like","speaker":null,"is_sponsor":0},{"start_s":736.36,"end_s":738.92,"text":"Let's come back to more ip specific law, right?","speaker":null,"is_sponsor":0},{"start_s":739.72,"end_s":743.32,"text":"Disney kind of owned children's entertainment for a long time","speaker":null,"is_sponsor":0},{"start_s":744.12,"end_s":748.36,"text":"Most of our lives and a lot of before it. Yes, and now they're losing","speaker":null,"is_sponsor":0},{"start_s":748.84,"end_s":753.16,"text":"But they're not losing because you can use mickey mouse in other content now","speaker":null,"is_sponsor":0},{"start_s":753.88,"end_s":760.04,"text":"Because that is the thing that happened That was like a tiny splash a bunch of games all came out all at once right when that got lifted","speaker":null,"is_sponsor":0},{"start_s":760.28,"end_s":764.04,"text":"That all features micky mouse. Yeah, and none of them were good. Everyone stopped caring","speaker":null,"is_sponsor":0},{"start_s":764.44,"end_s":770.04,"text":"Almost immediately no one talks about it anymore at all and bluey is just completely taking their life. Heck. Yeah","speaker":null,"is_sponsor":0},{"start_s":770.44,"end_s":775.0,"text":"Have you watched bluey? I have seen some bluey bluey's frickins. It makes me cry","speaker":null,"is_sponsor":0},{"start_s":775.24,"end_s":781.56,"text":"They like lost their ability to protect their ip on mickey, right and it didn't matter and that's why the mcu","speaker":null,"is_sponsor":0},{"start_s":782.44,"end_s":788.2,"text":"Didn't isn't as good anymore Because they they're losing there because they stopped they didn't stop","speaker":null,"is_sponsor":0},{"start_s":788.76,"end_s":791.4,"text":"Uh steamboat willy from escaping","speaker":null,"is_sponsor":0},{"start_s":791.96,"end_s":794.52,"text":"He was going to join the avengers","speaker":null,"is_sponsor":0},{"start_s":795.24,"end_s":799.88,"text":"Steamboat willy was yeah, honestly. I would go watch that I would I haven't watched a","speaker":null,"is_sponsor":0},{"start_s":800.6,"end_s":805.56,"text":"Marvel movie in many years if steamboat willy joined the adventures adventures. I would go","speaker":null,"is_sponsor":0},{"start_s":805.8,"end_s":810.36,"text":"I mean, I will say that like one argument for the deleting of ip law","speaker":null,"is_sponsor":0},{"start_s":811.08,"end_s":818.52,"text":"is the The the few times there's been a couple times where disney points puts out a project and it seems like the entire point of","speaker":null,"is_sponsor":0},{"start_s":818.52,"end_s":824.28,"text":"The project is just a brag about how much ip they have Like did you see the ralph wrecks the internet movie?","speaker":null,"is_sponsor":0},{"start_s":825.0,"end_s":832.28,"text":"Like quite a few years ago. Did you you saw it? I think so. Okay. Yeah, it was just the whole movie just seemed like they were like","speaker":null,"is_sponsor":0},{"start_s":832.44,"end_s":836.6,"text":"Wait wreck it ralph. So there's wreck it ralph and then the sequel was ralph breaks the internet","speaker":null,"is_sponsor":0},{"start_s":836.92,"end_s":839.96,"text":"Wreck it ralph. They had a couple I recognizable people there was sonic","speaker":null,"is_sponsor":0},{"start_s":840.04,"end_s":847.0,"text":"It was there like bowser and stuff But then they go to the internet in the second one and they they go to like disney the disney website","speaker":null,"is_sponsor":0},{"start_s":847.08,"end_s":852.52,"text":"And it's just like wow, what a magical place. Look there's star wars and there's these then lilo and stitch and label","speaker":null,"is_sponsor":0},{"start_s":852.6,"end_s":855.16,"text":"And like they're just showing all the princesses are there","speaker":null,"is_sponsor":0},{"start_s":855.96,"end_s":860.36,"text":"So it was basically like look at all these things that used to be cool that watching that movie","speaker":null,"is_sponsor":0},{"start_s":860.84,"end_s":866.28,"text":"Made me think like this is kind of like if I if I watch that movie and then jack dorsy","speaker":null,"is_sponsor":0},{"start_s":866.6,"end_s":870.76,"text":"Called me up and like we should delete all ip law and I'd be like jack you're so smart","speaker":null,"is_sponsor":0},{"start_s":871.72,"end_s":880.28,"text":"Why don't we talk more often? No Please call me it kind of makes me feel that way because it's like we're heading into this ai future","speaker":null,"is_sponsor":0},{"start_s":881.48,"end_s":886.6,"text":"Where if ai gets power like there's kind of two paths that I see. Yeah","speaker":null,"is_sponsor":0},{"start_s":888.52,"end_s":892.68,"text":"One is We lock this down and we're like enough","speaker":null,"is_sponsor":0},{"start_s":893.32,"end_s":898.6,"text":"Ai companies you're going all over the place. You're you're slurping up everyone's stuff and making slop","speaker":null,"is_sponsor":0},{"start_s":898.84,"end_s":903.48,"text":"We need to stop this you if you want to train on material you got to license it","speaker":null,"is_sponsor":0},{"start_s":903.48,"end_s":908.2,"text":"You got to pay all the people you've already trained other material like like either that that's not going to happen","speaker":null,"is_sponsor":0},{"start_s":908.6,"end_s":911.72,"text":"but like that's either we kind of move in that direction or","speaker":null,"is_sponsor":0},{"start_s":912.68,"end_s":915.16,"text":"Things just kind of keep progressing as they have been","speaker":null,"is_sponsor":0},{"start_s":915.72,"end_s":920.12,"text":"and copyright and ip Just kind of become","speaker":null,"is_sponsor":0},{"start_s":920.12,"end_s":925.08,"text":"This kind of nebulous like like the the walls get torn down a lot more. Yeah","speaker":null,"is_sponsor":0},{"start_s":926.04,"end_s":928.6,"text":"And it's a lot more sketchy","speaker":null,"is_sponsor":0},{"start_s":929.48,"end_s":934.04,"text":"As to what's infringing and what's not you think we're going there. I think we're going there","speaker":null,"is_sponsor":0},{"start_s":934.2,"end_s":940.12,"text":"So jack doors. He's gonna mostly maybe get his way. I think he's going to partially win. I don't think like I said earlier","speaker":null,"is_sponsor":0},{"start_s":940.12,"end_s":943.96,"text":"I don't think we're gonna be deleting ip law, but I think there will be significant reform","speaker":null,"is_sponsor":0},{"start_s":944.68,"end_s":949.24,"text":"because I I don't see America effectively just","speaker":null,"is_sponsor":0},{"start_s":950.12,"end_s":953.32,"text":"kind of Being willing to lose the ai race","speaker":null,"is_sponsor":0},{"start_s":954.12,"end_s":959.72,"text":"Because I see this as they're in in their opinion. This is this is computers. This is uh.com","speaker":null,"is_sponsor":0},{"start_s":960.2,"end_s":965.64,"text":"They have to fight again. So I I think I agree with you if we're talking about like the powers that be","speaker":null,"is_sponsor":0},{"start_s":965.96,"end_s":969.32,"text":"Yeah, the uh, you know tech corporations government","speaker":null,"is_sponsor":0},{"start_s":969.96,"end_s":979.64,"text":"They definitely don't want to lose to china. Yeah The question then is what is what are the how do the people feel about it? Oh, yeah, because every time I encounter","speaker":null,"is_sponsor":0},{"start_s":981.0,"end_s":987.64,"text":"sentiment about ai and Copyright online. This is why this tweet was so interesting because the vast majority","speaker":null,"is_sponsor":0},{"start_s":988.52,"end_s":992.52,"text":"of The discourse around ai and copyright online is like","speaker":null,"is_sponsor":0},{"start_s":993.24,"end_s":999.56,"text":"Yeah, there's these ai companies are stealing from people. Well, they are yeah. Yeah, and you have the tech bros, you know","speaker":null,"is_sponsor":0},{"start_s":999.56,"end_s":1008.44,"text":"Whatever coming out every once in a while being like We need to chill a guys. We need like how are we gonna get exponential growth if we don't steal all this copyrighted stuff?","speaker":null,"is_sponsor":0},{"start_s":1008.84,"end_s":1016.6,"text":"um And but they don't usually like that's not getting a ton of engagement. It's like this but this is saying the quiet part out loud pretty much","speaker":null,"is_sponsor":0},{"start_s":1017.4,"end_s":1020.36,"text":"It's because it's because it doesn't feel good. They are stealing stuff","speaker":null,"is_sponsor":0},{"start_s":1020.44,"end_s":1025.24,"text":"They are taking other people's work and they are directly aggressively profiting off of it the","speaker":null,"is_sponsor":0},{"start_s":1027.16,"end_s":1031.64,"text":"Well profiting off of investment, I guess most these companies are really not making a profit","speaker":null,"is_sponsor":0},{"start_s":1031.72,"end_s":1037.0,"text":"Yeah, they're not they're not taking the copyright machine and putting it into a different machine and it's like wow","speaker":null,"is_sponsor":0},{"start_s":1037.08,"end_s":1042.92,"text":"It's chewing up the copyright and spitting out profit. Yeah, they're tricking people into thinking their value machine putting a cool","speaker":null,"is_sponsor":0},{"start_s":1042.92,"end_s":1047.72,"text":"Little bow on it and be like you want to give me money? Yeah for nothing. Yeah sick. Um","speaker":null,"is_sponsor":0},{"start_s":1049.24,"end_s":1057.16,"text":"The bubble man Yeah, the bubble's pretty sorry you're you're saying something though. No, it's just it doesn't feel good. Yeah, it's morally","speaker":null,"is_sponsor":0},{"start_s":1057.24,"end_s":1062.44,"text":"I think it's like bad You're taking significant work from people especially","speaker":null,"is_sponsor":0},{"start_s":1063.32,"end_s":1068.76,"text":"Oh, and we already see this from google right a lot of small brands are getting screwed over by these search engines and now","speaker":null,"is_sponsor":0},{"start_s":1069.32,"end_s":1074.2,"text":"also by ai systems because Everything's intercepting","speaker":null,"is_sponsor":0},{"start_s":1074.2,"end_s":1078.84,"text":"Like even right now if you're using google search not even if you're in a chat program","speaker":null,"is_sponsor":0},{"start_s":1078.84,"end_s":1081.96,"text":"If you're using google search it will give you an ai summary at the top","speaker":null,"is_sponsor":0},{"start_s":1082.52,"end_s":1088.28,"text":"And the ai summary will often make it so that you do not have to go through and click onto one of those websites","speaker":null,"is_sponsor":0},{"start_s":1088.76,"end_s":1091.56,"text":"And that is making it so that independent small time","speaker":null,"is_sponsor":0},{"start_s":1091.96,"end_s":1100.12,"text":"research writing Whatever is all effectively being defunded by these platforms that are using them in order to succeed","speaker":null,"is_sponsor":0},{"start_s":1100.6,"end_s":1106.52,"text":"Right and that is a crazy concept. Yeah, because like okay, we might win the ai race","speaker":null,"is_sponsor":0},{"start_s":1107.08,"end_s":1110.04,"text":"But at what cost the cost of like literally everything else","speaker":null,"is_sponsor":0},{"start_s":1111.32,"end_s":1113.96,"text":"I was gonna say like okay. Yeah, definitely at the cost of like","speaker":null,"is_sponsor":0},{"start_s":1114.52,"end_s":1118.28,"text":"You know smaller creators smaller like copyright holders or whatever","speaker":null,"is_sponsor":0},{"start_s":1118.84,"end_s":1123.0,"text":"Uh smaller companies that are trying to get up and the seo rankings and they just can't","speaker":null,"is_sponsor":0},{"start_s":1123.56,"end_s":1127.64,"text":"I think but also at the cost of like I feel like our minds there have been some","speaker":null,"is_sponsor":0},{"start_s":1128.44,"end_s":1134.04,"text":"studies looking at People who use ai a lot versus people who don't use ai a lot and it's like","speaker":null,"is_sponsor":0},{"start_s":1134.52,"end_s":1139.48,"text":"Looking at their like problem-solving ability your ability like novel tasks. Yeah, they're worse at it","speaker":null,"is_sponsor":0},{"start_s":1139.88,"end_s":1144.28,"text":"And I I know that when I go to google something it gives me an ai overview","speaker":null,"is_sponsor":0},{"start_s":1144.52,"end_s":1149.0,"text":"I know how to google stuff. My whole job is like researching stuff and like reporting on it","speaker":null,"is_sponsor":0},{"start_s":1149.32,"end_s":1153.32,"text":"So like I've learned how to be really good good at like google foo. Yeah, but","speaker":null,"is_sponsor":0},{"start_s":1154.28,"end_s":1161.72,"text":"Most people are not and they're going to be even worse now If they don't even have to click into like one site to see what the see the answer","speaker":null,"is_sponsor":0},{"start_s":1162.12,"end_s":1169.08,"text":"Or what the quote unquote answer Because it might be it might be fake. So I don't it's it's crazy that we we all know","speaker":null,"is_sponsor":0},{"start_s":1169.56,"end_s":1178.76,"text":"That ai hallucinates and just makes stuff up all the time But a huge portion of the internet like genuinely a lot of people seem to be going under the the route of","speaker":null,"is_sponsor":0},{"start_s":1179.32,"end_s":1186.68,"text":"Blindlessly verifying things with ai. Mm-hmm. So like you see this on the tweeters, which I'm still going to call it","speaker":null,"is_sponsor":0},{"start_s":1187.0,"end_s":1192.84,"text":"Um where someone will be like At grok is this true don't call it the tweeters the tweeters","speaker":null,"is_sponsor":0},{"start_s":1193.4,"end_s":1197.4,"text":"Just call it twitter twitter. All right Um","speaker":null,"is_sponsor":0},{"start_s":1197.4,"end_s":1202.76,"text":"But they'll ask like grok or perplexity or whatever other ones will respond to tweets if something is true","speaker":null,"is_sponsor":0},{"start_s":1203.0,"end_s":1206.12,"text":"And then they will just take that fully at face value. I may","speaker":null,"is_sponsor":0},{"start_s":1206.68,"end_s":1210.6,"text":"Which is brutal. I made a joke about this in teclic the other day because yeah, I've seen this where","speaker":null,"is_sponsor":0},{"start_s":1211.0,"end_s":1215.48,"text":"Someone makes a claim and someone's like, I don't think that's true and they're like, well","speaker":null,"is_sponsor":0},{"start_s":1216.2,"end_s":1221.72,"text":"It is because look at this website and then they say hey grok is this true and it's like just click on the website","speaker":null,"is_sponsor":0},{"start_s":1222.28,"end_s":1226.92,"text":"Just google it. Why are you asking an ai that may or may not lie to your face?","speaker":null,"is_sponsor":0},{"start_s":1227.64,"end_s":1232.84,"text":"Like they've gotten a lot better, but they still hallucinate enough that it's like, why are you trusting?","speaker":null,"is_sponsor":0},{"start_s":1233.8,"end_s":1236.84,"text":"Yeah, and then it was even worse as the people who are like","speaker":null,"is_sponsor":0},{"start_s":1237.4,"end_s":1243.16,"text":"I collaborated with chat gpt on on this and then they like post some giant freaking thing","speaker":null,"is_sponsor":0},{"start_s":1244.36,"end_s":1247.96,"text":"What was your participation? I was wondering about whether this is the case","speaker":null,"is_sponsor":0},{"start_s":1247.96,"end_s":1252.68,"text":"So I asked chat gpt and it told me that so I guess chat gpt likes this and it's like guys","speaker":null,"is_sponsor":0},{"start_s":1253.4,"end_s":1260.76,"text":"stop Yeah, the confirmation bias is crazy too because a lot of the chat programs will try to detect what you're leaning towards and just affirm it","speaker":null,"is_sponsor":0},{"start_s":1261.08,"end_s":1267.64,"text":"Yeah, because people like those responses We've done a lot of bashing on ai so far. Yeah, but I","speaker":null,"is_sponsor":0},{"start_s":1268.04,"end_s":1272.6,"text":"It serves it. Well, it does But I know that you and I","speaker":null,"is_sponsor":0},{"start_s":1273.48,"end_s":1278.84,"text":"Well, I don't know but I have a suspicion that you and I share an appreciation for some of its upsides as well","speaker":null,"is_sponsor":0},{"start_s":1279.0,"end_s":1283.08,"text":"Yeah, and I want to talk about that After this segue to our sponsor","speaker":null,"is_sponsor":0},{"start_s":1283.48,"end_s":1288.84,"text":"Okay, now ai this essentially the argument we're talking about is ai safety versus innovation speed because it's like","speaker":null,"is_sponsor":0},{"start_s":1289.24,"end_s":1296.12,"text":"Is it more worth going for the moral argument of this sucks? We're stealing things from people or is it more worth not losing to china?","speaker":null,"is_sponsor":0},{"start_s":1296.28,"end_s":1301.08,"text":"Right, and this is why I think the reason why there hasn't been precedent set is these are such different","speaker":null,"is_sponsor":0},{"start_s":1301.8,"end_s":1305.0,"text":"weights That it's it's hard to","speaker":null,"is_sponsor":0},{"start_s":1306.84,"end_s":1310.52,"text":"And like the same person can want both sides of it","speaker":null,"is_sponsor":0},{"start_s":1311.48,"end_s":1315.96,"text":"Very deeply the same person can want to not steal","speaker":null,"is_sponsor":0},{"start_s":1317.32,"end_s":1327.8,"text":"All thought creation from humanity ever And also not want to lose this war because if you lose this then this side didn't matter anyways, so it's like","speaker":null,"is_sponsor":0},{"start_s":1328.68,"end_s":1331.64,"text":"It's especially hard because you can like","speaker":null,"is_sponsor":0},{"start_s":1332.52,"end_s":1338.44,"text":"As you were saying that my first kind of like gut reaction is like but what about principles, you know like there's kind of like","speaker":null,"is_sponsor":0},{"start_s":1339.4,"end_s":1342.68,"text":"You know the utilitarian thing of like this is what's necessary in order to win","speaker":null,"is_sponsor":0},{"start_s":1342.76,"end_s":1347.48,"text":"But i'm like oh at what cost what if we lose our soul as as a as a society","speaker":null,"is_sponsor":0},{"start_s":1347.96,"end_s":1352.6,"text":"But at the same time it's like well If china develops a","speaker":null,"is_sponsor":0},{"start_s":1352.76,"end_s":1356.36,"text":"Super intelligence that kind of hacks the entire world and makes everything","speaker":null,"is_sponsor":0},{"start_s":1356.44,"end_s":1359.48,"text":"You know whatever they want it to be then we won't have a society","speaker":null,"is_sponsor":0},{"start_s":1359.96,"end_s":1366.12,"text":"That's like very far on the end of the possibilities, but I mean there's also the the problem of","speaker":null,"is_sponsor":0},{"start_s":1366.68,"end_s":1373.96,"text":"How consumers act about things which is everyone will say online not everyone i'm exaggerating a lot of people will say online","speaker":null,"is_sponsor":0},{"start_s":1374.28,"end_s":1378.68,"text":"that they want the You know don't steal everything from everyone route","speaker":null,"is_sponsor":0},{"start_s":1379.08,"end_s":1383.32,"text":"But then if a company that does do that releases a model that's better","speaker":null,"is_sponsor":0},{"start_s":1384.36,"end_s":1390.44,"text":"They will use it well And yeah that and like that the precedent of that is like","speaker":null,"is_sponsor":0},{"start_s":1391.24,"end_s":1395.96,"text":"Carved into every stone on the planet who's they when you say they will use it users","speaker":null,"is_sponsor":0},{"start_s":1397.16,"end_s":1404.36,"text":"If if everyone knows that many uh things are made in sweatshops by slaves and they keep buying them","speaker":null,"is_sponsor":0},{"start_s":1405.24,"end_s":1410.92,"text":"people won't like Gambling but they'll watch kick people won't like a certain thing","speaker":null,"is_sponsor":0},{"start_s":1411.32,"end_s":1414.92,"text":"Yeah, but then if the thing is better they'll buy it anyways","speaker":null,"is_sponsor":0},{"start_s":1415.16,"end_s":1419.08,"text":"And I guess this kind of comes into a part of the conversation that I wanted to","speaker":null,"is_sponsor":0},{"start_s":1419.56,"end_s":1425.16,"text":"address which was the usefulness of ai the the pros of ai because","speaker":null,"is_sponsor":0},{"start_s":1425.64,"end_s":1429.24,"text":"I remember I had friends that are not techie people","speaker":null,"is_sponsor":0},{"start_s":1429.8,"end_s":1440.04,"text":"um one is a teacher and In like 2023 like shortly after chat gpt. He's released. I go and talk to him and he's like yeah chat","speaker":null,"is_sponsor":0},{"start_s":1440.92,"end_s":1446.6,"text":"I use chat gpt all the time like first of all I was like, you know what chat gpt is because these are like not techie people","speaker":null,"is_sponsor":0},{"start_s":1446.76,"end_s":1450.76,"text":"Yeah, and he's like yeah use it to help me like make a lesson growth in history","speaker":null,"is_sponsor":0},{"start_s":1451.0,"end_s":1456.92,"text":"Yeah, I have to hit a lot of people right? Yeah, and and he was using it to make lesson plans for his kids and like coming up with ideas for stuff","speaker":null,"is_sponsor":0},{"start_s":1457.0,"end_s":1460.44,"text":"And I was like wow like because that that was at a point where I even I wasn't really","speaker":null,"is_sponsor":0},{"start_s":1461.08,"end_s":1465.24,"text":"I I haven't found it to be super super useful for my specific","speaker":null,"is_sponsor":0},{"start_s":1467.48,"end_s":1472.52,"text":"Work yeah, um my my dad's a plumbing instructor and they use it for yeah lesson plans","speaker":null,"is_sponsor":0},{"start_s":1473.4,"end_s":1479.24,"text":"Yeah, and once it gets like once these actual like multimodal updates get out like it's uh gemini live is now","speaker":null,"is_sponsor":0},{"start_s":1479.72,"end_s":1483.56,"text":"Available with the live camera feed. Yeah, I think chat gpt has","speaker":null,"is_sponsor":0},{"start_s":1484.04,"end_s":1489.24,"text":"I know you can feed images and I think they have a camera mode for the gem like there's live mode too. There's um","speaker":null,"is_sponsor":0},{"start_s":1490.44,"end_s":1493.72,"text":"I think a lot of people dramatically misuse AI","speaker":null,"is_sponsor":0},{"start_s":1494.52,"end_s":1499.08,"text":"And like for instance like I say that about my dad's lesson plan lesson plans for plumbing and people like oh","speaker":null,"is_sponsor":0},{"start_s":1499.4,"end_s":1504.92,"text":"Hopefully doesn't like teach people to go outside of code and it's like well. No, he's controlling those aspects","speaker":null,"is_sponsor":0},{"start_s":1505.16,"end_s":1507.8,"text":"He's using it to build the structure","speaker":null,"is_sponsor":0},{"start_s":1508.28,"end_s":1513.16,"text":"Right to build the pacing to come up with the document that he can put the information on","speaker":null,"is_sponsor":0},{"start_s":1513.4,"end_s":1518.2,"text":"He's using it to help organizational skills those types of things the way that I'll often use it is to","speaker":null,"is_sponsor":0},{"start_s":1518.68,"end_s":1524.52,"text":"Review my output and give me feedback on my output. I don't use it for output","speaker":null,"is_sponsor":0},{"start_s":1524.92,"end_s":1531.56,"text":"But like what kind of output are you talking about my most common use case is I will write an email that is like","speaker":null,"is_sponsor":0},{"start_s":1532.44,"end_s":1539.64,"text":"I sure hope this goes well Uh, so but you know, maybe I have to be rather serious or whatever in the tone of the email","speaker":null,"is_sponsor":0},{"start_s":1539.8,"end_s":1543.64,"text":"But I want to make sure that I get my point across but not come across as aggressive or whatever else","speaker":null,"is_sponsor":0},{"start_s":1543.8,"end_s":1548.84,"text":"So I'll ask it for a sentiment analysis of the email. Oh, and then I might ask it like if I'm like, okay","speaker":null,"is_sponsor":0},{"start_s":1548.92,"end_s":1554.04,"text":"That's not what I wanted someone to get from this Yeah, and it got that from this then I'll be like, okay","speaker":null,"is_sponsor":0},{"start_s":1554.28,"end_s":1558.6,"text":"How would you change it to get it there? And then I won't use its output, but I'll use it to help","speaker":null,"is_sponsor":0},{"start_s":1559.16,"end_s":1564.76,"text":"Guide me in that direction. Did I mention lizards too many times? Well, like sometimes their email is pretty good","speaker":null,"is_sponsor":0},{"start_s":1564.76,"end_s":1566.84,"text":"But you seem weirdly focused on lizards","speaker":null,"is_sponsor":0},{"start_s":1568.92,"end_s":1572.6,"text":"Maybe you should draw back on the lizards. I think they're not like a reptile person","speaker":null,"is_sponsor":0},{"start_s":1573.64,"end_s":1576.76,"text":"Maybe cats we've had um, I think it's also a good","speaker":null,"is_sponsor":0},{"start_s":1577.48,"end_s":1583.32,"text":"um kickstarter of sorts like For for writer's block, for instance, if you have to write, um","speaker":null,"is_sponsor":0},{"start_s":1584.36,"end_s":1589.96,"text":"A video on something you could use it to give you your skeleton. I've found I've tried to get it to write youtube videos","speaker":null,"is_sponsor":0},{"start_s":1590.2,"end_s":1594.68,"text":"Man, it sucks. Yeah, I don't know if you've tried. I've used it a couple times when I like","speaker":null,"is_sponsor":0},{"start_s":1595.32,"end_s":1597.64,"text":"Can't think of a word for something or like I'm like","speaker":null,"is_sponsor":0},{"start_s":1598.52,"end_s":1604.12,"text":"Writing a joke and I'm like, oh man This is like this and I'm just like drawing a blank and I'm like, what's uh","speaker":null,"is_sponsor":0},{"start_s":1604.44,"end_s":1609.0,"text":"Was this thing something like when this guy says this and then another guy comes at it like that and they're like","speaker":null,"is_sponsor":0},{"start_s":1609.4,"end_s":1614.68,"text":"Maybe this and I'm like, okay. Thank you. Yeah, that makes sense. But but writing whole scripts. No, no good","speaker":null,"is_sponsor":0},{"start_s":1615.08,"end_s":1618.68,"text":"but You can use it as like a research assistant","speaker":null,"is_sponsor":0},{"start_s":1619.48,"end_s":1624.44,"text":"Um, again, there's huge pitfalls there because you shouldn't just believe what it outputs","speaker":null,"is_sponsor":0},{"start_s":1625.0,"end_s":1629.48,"text":"But you can use it as like a kicking off point So like something that I've done is like, okay","speaker":null,"is_sponsor":0},{"start_s":1629.64,"end_s":1636.92,"text":"Here's a topic What are the like key fields of interest in this topic? Right and it'll give me that list and then I'll go off and","speaker":null,"is_sponsor":0},{"start_s":1637.0,"end_s":1641.8,"text":"Yeah, learn things about those all of the ai chatbots now have like deep research modes","speaker":null,"is_sponsor":0},{"start_s":1642.28,"end_s":1645.96,"text":"It does a good job of like giving you kind of a beginner's summary of stuff","speaker":null,"is_sponsor":0},{"start_s":1646.36,"end_s":1653.72,"text":"But if you know a lot about a topic and you're like What was the finding of this research like in the 19th whatever and it's like they found up this","speaker":null,"is_sponsor":0},{"start_s":1653.88,"end_s":1658.6,"text":"They found this stuff that I just made up because I'm an ai and you're like, well, I know that's not true","speaker":null,"is_sponsor":0},{"start_s":1659.24,"end_s":1664.92,"text":"So it's like, but that's why like you mentioned earlier in the show that it's getting better with like hallucinations and stuff","speaker":null,"is_sponsor":0},{"start_s":1665.48,"end_s":1673.72,"text":"A little bit It's only a little bit. I think it's getting better at convincing people that it's not doing it. Yeah. Um, I don't know","speaker":null,"is_sponsor":0},{"start_s":1675.32,"end_s":1677.32,"text":"I don't personally think it's getting","speaker":null,"is_sponsor":0},{"start_s":1678.36,"end_s":1681.64,"text":"Dramatically better overall Um","speaker":null,"is_sponsor":0},{"start_s":1681.64,"end_s":1688.04,"text":"There are measures that it's getting a bit better But I really think it's just getting better at convincing people and it's getting better at using","speaker":null,"is_sponsor":0},{"start_s":1688.52,"end_s":1691.72,"text":"slightly more vague language and stuff like that to get away from","speaker":null,"is_sponsor":0},{"start_s":1692.36,"end_s":1698.44,"text":"um Actually being pointed as doing things wrong because I catch it hallucinating stuff. Oh, yeah","speaker":null,"is_sponsor":0},{"start_s":1699.24,"end_s":1701.24,"text":"All the time I will say that I've","speaker":null,"is_sponsor":0},{"start_s":1702.28,"end_s":1707.48,"text":"I've I've just started trying to use it a little bit to help me research tech length stories","speaker":null,"is_sponsor":0},{"start_s":1708.04,"end_s":1711.32,"text":"Um, it's kind of like one of the steps in the process","speaker":null,"is_sponsor":0},{"start_s":1711.96,"end_s":1715.0,"text":"And it has not been it has not been very uh useful","speaker":null,"is_sponsor":0},{"start_s":1715.0,"end_s":1720.6,"text":"But most of the time it's not hallucinating fake stuff as much as it's like I'm asking for","speaker":null,"is_sponsor":0},{"start_s":1721.4,"end_s":1727.72,"text":"Uh stories that are recent and it like brings me something from a month ago. Here's something from last quarter. Yeah. Yeah","speaker":null,"is_sponsor":0},{"start_s":1728.28,"end_s":1730.68,"text":"On balance if you look at the whole field","speaker":null,"is_sponsor":0},{"start_s":1732.04,"end_s":1736.2,"text":"Do you feel like the majority of ai tools that are available?","speaker":null,"is_sponsor":0},{"start_s":1737.08,"end_s":1741.64,"text":"Are like helpful or just kind of taking up space and taking up resources. Whoa, okay","speaker":null,"is_sponsor":0},{"start_s":1743.24,"end_s":1746.84,"text":"Because there's a majority of ai tools. So if you include every ai tool in that pool","speaker":null,"is_sponsor":0},{"start_s":1747.4,"end_s":1753.96,"text":"Then honestly, no, there's a lot of compute a lot of resources being taken up. Yeah, and","speaker":null,"is_sponsor":0},{"start_s":1754.92,"end_s":1763.64,"text":"they're able to do that because These companies vacuumed up ip vacuumed up copyright and massive investment because that's the the hotness right now","speaker":null,"is_sponsor":0},{"start_s":1763.8,"end_s":1768.92,"text":"I think most of the tools are are garbage and we'll lose and we'll die and that is how these like","speaker":null,"is_sponsor":0},{"start_s":1769.4,"end_s":1775.72,"text":"Very startup focus fields work. So that's pretty natural. I don't actually think that's weird. I don't think that's ai specific","speaker":null,"is_sponsor":0},{"start_s":1776.04,"end_s":1781.8,"text":"I think that's just that's true big new fancy field with lots of investment dollars and everyone trying to dive in all at the same time","speaker":null,"is_sponsor":0},{"start_s":1782.04,"end_s":1787.88,"text":"So a lot of those people are gonna make garbage for for the handful of like crypto projects that were actually kind of cool","speaker":null,"is_sponsor":0},{"start_s":1788.12,"end_s":1792.76,"text":"Yeah, maybe like we can they did exist. They did like the idea of having some like","speaker":null,"is_sponsor":0},{"start_s":1793.24,"end_s":1798.68,"text":"Records and stuff on a blockchain system. That was cool. Yep, but for every one of those there were","speaker":null,"is_sponsor":0},{"start_s":1800.44,"end_s":1803.88,"text":"250 thousand","speaker":null,"is_sponsor":0},{"start_s":1803.88,"end_s":1807.16,"text":"Yeah, garbage things. So it's the same for ai, but","speaker":null,"is_sponsor":0},{"start_s":1807.96,"end_s":1811.16,"text":"Maybe that all won't matter if","speaker":null,"is_sponsor":0},{"start_s":1811.16,"end_s":1814.36,"text":"You know, we only need one we only need one asi","speaker":null,"is_sponsor":0},{"start_s":1815.0,"end_s":1819.64,"text":"artificial super intelligence And then it'll all be worth it","speaker":null,"is_sponsor":0},{"start_s":1820.28,"end_s":1826.36,"text":"Ascii you can do it. Yeah, what? Yeah, ascii artificial super general intelligence","speaker":null,"is_sponsor":0},{"start_s":1826.92,"end_s":1829.48,"text":"I've never heard that together. I've heard agi and asi","speaker":null,"is_sponsor":0},{"start_s":1829.96,"end_s":1834.76,"text":"You can't just put them together like that. We were talking earlier about innovators. That's true. I'm an inventor. Wow","speaker":null,"is_sponsor":0},{"start_s":1835.32,"end_s":1841.96,"text":"Here's a patent, sir That was you just witnessed innovation jack dorsey. This is what you're trying to kill. Yeah","speaker":null,"is_sponsor":0},{"start_s":1842.6,"end_s":1850.68,"text":"Stop it think of the children So maybe jack dorsey's right and we'll have a utopia and none of us will own any ip and everything will be fine","speaker":null,"is_sponsor":0},{"start_s":1851.24,"end_s":1855.24,"text":"And maybe jack dorsey and ilo musk and sam altman","speaker":null,"is_sponsor":0},{"start_s":1856.2,"end_s":1858.2,"text":"Especially sam altman","speaker":null,"is_sponsor":0},{"start_s":1859.32,"end_s":1864.84,"text":"Are gonna enslave all of us. Yeah, definitely especially sam altman and those are the two options","speaker":null,"is_sponsor":0},{"start_s":1865.08,"end_s":1869.08,"text":"Ilan just wants to impregnate all of us. He can be persuasive","speaker":null,"is_sponsor":0},{"start_s":1870.2,"end_s":1873.48,"text":"I think this has been a huge wake-up call for people about uh, chinese","speaker":null,"is_sponsor":0},{"start_s":1874.2,"end_s":1879.56,"text":"position on value chain america has traditionally been positioned very high on the value chain and then","speaker":null,"is_sponsor":0},{"start_s":1880.36,"end_s":1882.76,"text":"I think in a lot of north american views","speaker":null,"is_sponsor":0},{"start_s":1883.64,"end_s":1889.72,"text":"You you go down the value chain from america and end up in china and a few other countries at the bottom of the value chain","speaker":null,"is_sponsor":0},{"start_s":1890.04,"end_s":1894.52,"text":"But I think this and the tariff were going on and a few other things have revealed","speaker":null,"is_sponsor":0},{"start_s":1894.76,"end_s":1899.72,"text":"That china is much higher on the value chain than we previously thought and has the active ability now","speaker":null,"is_sponsor":0},{"start_s":1900.12,"end_s":1904.12,"text":"To take rungs on the value chain. Yes, and I think one of those","speaker":null,"is_sponsor":0},{"start_s":1905.16,"end_s":1911.4,"text":"Yes No, I was just saying that because I was thinking about a recent story that just came up with their","speaker":null,"is_sponsor":0},{"start_s":1911.96,"end_s":1919.64,"text":"They have chips that they say are More performant than NVIDIA's equivalent. But anyways, go ahead. Yeah, I'm like, I don't know all about that being true","speaker":null,"is_sponsor":0},{"start_s":1919.8,"end_s":1924.6,"text":"But yeah, who knows they're they're progressing very quickly in a lot of these fields CPU's GPU's","speaker":null,"is_sponsor":0},{"start_s":1925.0,"end_s":1927.4,"text":"AI technology movies random one","speaker":null,"is_sponsor":0},{"start_s":1928.2,"end_s":1931.48,"text":"Lots and lots lots of fields where they're they're really taking major steps forward","speaker":null,"is_sponsor":0},{"start_s":1931.8,"end_s":1936.68,"text":"One of those places insane story that I I don't understand how it doesn't get talked about more","speaker":null,"is_sponsor":0},{"start_s":1936.76,"end_s":1941.4,"text":"But uh the quote that I have here is ford ceo jim farley admitted","speaker":null,"is_sponsor":0},{"start_s":1941.4,"end_s":1946.28,"text":"He's been driving a xiaomi su 7 for six months and doesn't want to give it up","speaker":null,"is_sponsor":0},{"start_s":1947.08,"end_s":1952.92,"text":"The ford ceo drives a 30 000 dollar chinese electric made vehicle. Sorry chinese made electric vehicle","speaker":null,"is_sponsor":0},{"start_s":1953.64,"end_s":1959.88,"text":"Unavailable in the us due to tariffs and safety regulation issues. Is this something that he revealed uh on a podcast","speaker":null,"is_sponsor":0},{"start_s":1960.04,"end_s":1963.8,"text":"Like like of his own volition. We are now. We're basically the ford ceo. Yes, he did","speaker":null,"is_sponsor":0},{"start_s":1964.52,"end_s":1968.76,"text":"It was of his own volition. Why would he do that? I feel like that's like so dumb motor company","speaker":null,"is_sponsor":0},{"start_s":1969.08,"end_s":1974.84,"text":"Mentioned that he didn't want to give up a 30 000 dollar vehicle from a competing company because it was so good","speaker":null,"is_sponsor":0},{"start_s":1975.32,"end_s":1979.72,"text":"That should be is he about to cash out or something like what donning wake up call the people","speaker":null,"is_sponsor":0},{"start_s":1979.96,"end_s":1988.52,"text":"Yeah about the automotive industry outside of america Yeah, I think in e v's in particular. Oh, yeah, china is like leapfrogging the automotive industry","speaker":null,"is_sponsor":0},{"start_s":1988.52,"end_s":1993.4,"text":"I start falling apart and have panel gaps that I can shove my fists through um and are like","speaker":null,"is_sponsor":0},{"start_s":1994.12,"end_s":1996.76,"text":"You know, they're they're just partying on slack sharing people's","speaker":null,"is_sponsor":0},{"start_s":1997.32,"end_s":2001.8,"text":"Videos and stuff like that. So like if you're and I think that's a big part of the problem too","speaker":null,"is_sponsor":0},{"start_s":2001.88,"end_s":2006.92,"text":"We're like when you when you think about chinese products people traditionally go like oh, but like they're gonna steal your information","speaker":null,"is_sponsor":0},{"start_s":2007.64,"end_s":2010.36,"text":"Right. It's like yeah, but we we know","speaker":null,"is_sponsor":0},{"start_s":2011.32,"end_s":2018.52,"text":"That our companies are yeah for sure. Well, yeah, that's a documented evidence. That's a whole another that's a whole another conversation","speaker":null,"is_sponsor":0},{"start_s":2018.6,"end_s":2021.64,"text":"I feel like which I'm still I don't know what to think about","speaker":null,"is_sponsor":0},{"start_s":2022.44,"end_s":2028.36,"text":"Because that's been the main reason why I'm like, uh, don't I don't want to use that like chinese phone or whatever","speaker":null,"is_sponsor":0},{"start_s":2028.52,"end_s":2032.84,"text":"Who knows what data they're sending but","speaker":null,"is_sponsor":0},{"start_s":2032.84,"end_s":2037.16,"text":"I know my dad is going out to all these other companies. So like so at a certain point it's like","speaker":null,"is_sponsor":0},{"start_s":2037.16,"end_s":2044.12,"text":"This is the future. This is what they're saying. They're like ip doesn't matter your personal information doesn't matter","speaker":null,"is_sponsor":0},{"start_s":2044.68,"end_s":2047.88,"text":"You'll own nothing including your own personal information","speaker":null,"is_sponsor":0},{"start_s":2048.52,"end_s":2055.32,"text":"And your own thoughts If you can't sell them anymore neural link and you'll be happy. Yeah, but we'll have to see","speaker":null,"is_sponsor":0},{"start_s":2055.48,"end_s":2061.8,"text":"I don't know if this tweet that jack dorsy reposted is gonna come to pass in which so he tweeted","speaker":null,"is_sponsor":0},{"start_s":2062.2,"end_s":2065.16,"text":"He retweeted a interview with microsoft a i ceo","speaker":null,"is_sponsor":0},{"start_s":2065.72,"end_s":2071.24,"text":"Mustafa Suleyman who says the future isn't ubi universal basic income. It's ubp","speaker":null,"is_sponsor":0},{"start_s":2071.96,"end_s":2079.72,"text":"universal basic provision Abundant intelligence as the new currency you won't need more money because knowledge won't be something you buy","speaker":null,"is_sponsor":0},{"start_s":2080.6,"end_s":2086.44,"text":"Not cash capability. We won't need cash because we'll have ai assistants who can do everything for us","speaker":null,"is_sponsor":0},{"start_s":2087.48,"end_s":2090.12,"text":"You don't need to go to the store and buy a pop","speaker":null,"is_sponsor":0},{"start_s":2090.68,"end_s":2094.76,"text":"A soda Your ai will just synthesize it for you. Okay","speaker":null,"is_sponsor":0},{"start_s":2095.72,"end_s":2100.68,"text":"This feels like that south park episode where randy can't fix his oven because he can't fix the oven door","speaker":null,"is_sponsor":0},{"start_s":2101.32,"end_s":2107.8,"text":"and then the the like Handy men people end up being the wealthiest people in society","speaker":null,"is_sponsor":0},{"start_s":2108.12,"end_s":2110.84,"text":"Because no one can fix anything because no one knows how to do anything","speaker":null,"is_sponsor":0},{"start_s":2111.96,"end_s":2115.88,"text":"And they they I don't remember if this happens in the episode, but I'm gonna make it up. I guess","speaker":null,"is_sponsor":0},{"start_s":2116.68,"end_s":2121.8,"text":"I'm hallucinating But they they like ask an ai to fix the door and it just tries to teach him how to do it","speaker":null,"is_sponsor":0},{"start_s":2121.8,"end_s":2128.92,"text":"But he's like no, I want you to fix the door it keeps giving them steps But he's like no, I want you to fix the door like we don't have things that can do our laundry right now","speaker":null,"is_sponsor":0},{"start_s":2128.92,"end_s":2132.6,"text":"We don't have things that can build houses. We don't have things that can fix plumbing","speaker":null,"is_sponsor":0},{"start_s":2132.6,"end_s":2139.4,"text":"We don't have things that can do any of that kind of stuff It's like he's talking about provisions of like this thing that can draw studio ghibli for me","speaker":null,"is_sponsor":0},{"start_s":2140.36,"end_s":2145.56,"text":"Or like write a terrible email or a really really really bad youtube video that would get one view","speaker":null,"is_sponsor":0},{"start_s":2145.8,"end_s":2150.84,"text":"Like is that really I'm really excited about that being a universal provision. Thanks bro","speaker":null,"is_sponsor":0},{"start_s":2151.08,"end_s":2156.44,"text":"I think that's what makes the whole conversation just so so hard to come down on one side of because it's so uncertain","speaker":null,"is_sponsor":0},{"start_s":2156.76,"end_s":2162.12,"text":"You need your apartment to not leak. Is is is chat gpt gonna help you with that? Yeah","speaker":null,"is_sponsor":0},{"start_s":2162.84,"end_s":2168.2,"text":"like It's hot and there's there's droughts and and uh like there's peaks and valleys too","speaker":null,"is_sponsor":0},{"start_s":2168.52,"end_s":2174.76,"text":"Like sometimes it seems like the ai whole thing is just hype and sometimes it's like oh, this is okay. It's happening. Yeah","speaker":null,"is_sponsor":0},{"start_s":2175.48,"end_s":2182.2,"text":"We're not gonna solve it in this podcast But maybe in the next one so subscribe possibly","speaker":null,"is_sponsor":0},{"start_s":2182.84,"end_s":2186.6,"text":"I wouldn't want to miss it. It might happen. Maybe we'll invent a gi","speaker":null,"is_sponsor":0},{"start_s":2187.48,"end_s":2190.92,"text":"Right here a s watch out open ai","speaker":null,"is_sponsor":0},{"start_s":2193.56,"end_s":2199.8,"text":"We're gonna delete your ip Hey, thanks for watching. Uh, that was a talk linked. Uh, subscribe to TechLinked","speaker":null,"is_sponsor":0},{"start_s":2202.44,"end_s":2206.76,"text":"See you later. Maybe I'll do another one of these in half a year. Nope never happening never again. Bye","speaker":null,"is_sponsor":0},{"start_s":2207.48,"end_s":2210.2,"text":"You","speaker":null,"is_sponsor":0}],"full_text":"You'll own no IP at all and you'll be happy I will be sad what nope not allowed That's a case of rules the AI will stop you from being sad How could you be sad when you live in a utopia where everything's controlled and oh everything's generated? What are we talking about here Luke's powered by the the IP grinding machine? We're talking about IP we're talking about AI policy we're talking about how this stuff is gonna possibly work because there's a huge battle going on between North American and European AI companies and mostly Chinese AI companies deep-seek came and took everyone's lunch and what are we gonna do? You it's like you host a stream or something you've done this before maybe We haven't done a talk linked in a in a hot second, but then and you've never been on no I'm so excited. Yeah, and also get you get to talk about AI Wait, I just when Linus doesn't let you know on when he whips me as soon as you get to a AI topic And I know this because I prepare the topic sometimes. Yeah, I'm like, oh they're gonna like this topic I stopped preparing them because he just gets there and he goes on his phone Yeah, he has literally done that and then he'll get at me for not paying attention during other topics But whatever yeah, but now you get to talk about it So the the the kind of impetus for all of this was Jack Dorsey the founder Former CEO of Twitter. Yeah now X which I still call Twitter. Yeah, tweeting delete all IP law on April 11th and it kind of sparked some discourse. Yeah, that's that's part of what in my opinion are like the three Core topics around AI policy right now, which I laid out as open versus closed models Copyright and IP reform and AI safety versus innovation speed. Oh heck I think that's like one of the really core things is what do we do with IP law? Because when you're looking at the the race for AI stuff It's becoming more and more like country or alliance based instead of company based Yeah, a lot of people are looking at it like okay the the West versus the East I guess or right now basically deep-seek v everyone yeah, yeah, and There are differences in how the West and China deal with IP law. Do I understand Chinese IP law? Not even sort of yeah Yeah, I kind of started to Google it in preparation for this and I'm kind of like oh this is gonna be too too complicated What my not enough googling has told me is that they are much more lax on IP law Especially when it comes to outside of their own country, but also within their own country and Especially especially when it has to do with anything that could benefit the state right because over here You know the the North American kind of capitalist mindset is like focused right? It's like let people go out there struggle whoever rises at the top is good and China also does that I know they do that with like but but it's more like it's like they the government directs these little experiments to happen So if something is like oh, this will be beneficial to the nation then they can just kind of override Yeah, the I just make it happen. Yeah, which which when you're in a race like this Could be very beneficial When the other side the West is like squabbling over are we even allowing these companies to access this data at all? Which I think what a lot of the argument hinges on right is like the morality around letting these gigantic companies that don't care about you and Want to loot you for everything you have? Mm-hmm take all of your IP as well or Lose the whole race and have it not matter anyways because a company in another country That's just gonna do that anyways ends up winning. Yeah, so so for me argument for me The there's kind of too well there might be more than two but the two perspectives that are kind of popping into my head here are the like Philosophical argument for AI copyright like as a society just regardless of like, you know where China's at do we think that AI? Created stuff deserves copyright. Do we think that AI a model could count as the author of something? There's all those questions and then there's the kind of more utilitarian Like practical question of like is this what we have to do in order to Keep up in the nuclear AI arms race with China. So which of those is more interesting to you? Well, I think right now the Canon AI have ownership over something that it creates thing Is is Technically somewhat decided in law right now and it's no Right. Well, it can can an AI model count as the author. Yeah. Yeah, I think no right now It's no. Yeah, the copyright office has ruled a couple times. I think at least yeah about There's multiple precedents. I think there's one guy in particular We'll look it up later Maybe but like there's one guy in particular who has submitted multiple times to be like, okay This is definitely one for sure guys But I used an AI this time and this time this AI is sentient for sure guys and the copyright office is like stop coming back here And put on some pants. So there's precedent against that dude. Yeah. Yeah Yeah, but I mean, I think that the the like do do we get to keep copyright in an era where All these companies are just kind of gobbling everything up anyway Like that those are the interesting lawsuits that are moving through the big one being opening. I versus the New York Times Yeah It's so interesting like chat GBT has been out since 2022 and obviously transformer based LLMs. They were out for a while. I mean they were in research Scenarios, but attention is all you need. It's been yeah, it's 2017. Yeah, I've done research I can't believe that this question is still kind of as open as it is I would have expected there to be some precedent set and a ruling set by that by now But we're still just kind of like, you know meta just is also going through proceedings where they're like you You literally torrented like every book ever. I mean not that you know, but like a massive archive of books Yeah, and like that's the that's the and this I'm not the first person to reference this at all But one of the co-founders. I think of reddit Mm-hmm. I was out so Hainian. I don't remember the exact details of this story, but I believe he was pirating Like research papers and then making them available to people for free I think yeah, and then he was gonna get thrown in jail forever and ended up Unaliving oh oh over it because it like ruined his whole life. Wait Aaron Schwartz. You know what Aaron Schwartz? Oh, okay. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. No, I'm familiar. Yeah. Yeah, and then now a company's doing it on a much grander scale Like oh, you know what that seems fine. That totally reminds me I saw an article recently like referencing Aaron Schwartz. Yeah, and like how bonkers it is. It's like actually kind of similar Well, it's it's crazy that that was the case just a few years ago Yeah, and really not that long ago. He was his entire life was gonna be ruined. Yep, and now we have every tech company ever is just Gobbling up. I mean I had as one of the points I wanted to talk about these like AI web crawlers that are Taking up tons of bandwidth. Oh, yeah We've referenced it a couple times on TechLinked But there are like a number of studies now and like reports from Administrators being like yeah, we looked into it and it's like 80 percent of our web traffic is just AI crawlers so regardless we can I don't want to bash on AI completely because I feel like there's an argument here and like for for AI for embedding it in society at every level for even maybe deleting all IP law And the argument would be is if it's actually if it if it actually leads to this Scenario that Jack Dorsey and apparently Elon Musk and whoever because Elon Musk tweeted as well. I agree To delete all IP law Yeah, if the argument by Putting being put forward by them. They're like, okay. This is actually going to help us. It's actually going to lead to a situation where we benefit Do we like if you could know deleting all IP law will lead to a kind of a utopian society where you don't need money It feels like you know, there's a bunch of stories that are like this where you have utopian society and then like in the basement of city hall there's just like A terrible demon machine that is like the reason why everything's okay. I feel like this is one of those scenarios. I I don't think And I'm decently confident. This is the route. It's going to go to I don't think deleting IP law is like the way to go I feel like what they're trying to do is like gambit and overcorrection So they're trying to be like, let's delete everything hoping that they'll end up somewhere 50% of the way If that makes sense because I don't think they think that's going to happen either to be completely honest But I think they're trying to do the like Trumpian move of like I'm going to ask for this and then I'll send end up somewhere here, you know, we'll delete half of IP law Yeah, well, I think it's going to be IP reform Because like a lot of the laws that were made weren't even really made In the internet age let alone Let alone the the like AI web crawler crazy situation. We are now So it's likely a lot of modernization and reform that needs to happen. I mean, we even have this problem with like youtube videos Um, like there's this huge question mark of like, can I have a clip from a movie in my video? Yeah, like maybe but also maybe not. Yeah, I've been scared to put anything Yeah, that could go over the line But then like all short form content seems to just be able to use whatever music they want Yeah, and like that seems fine. I guess that's completely different luke It's whole totally different one is watched by young people And the other they don't have money. Why do they matter? They don't they're too dumb They're young and dumb. They don't know about copyright Yeah, elijah one of the parallels that I would draw is to patents and it's not perfect But it's it's an interesting argument because there's a huge debate on whether or not patents have driven or stifled innovation in the past And I think it really depends on the time the country The the field of innovation like it depends on tons of stuff A lot of people this is the right brothers conversation. I warned you but a lot of people look at the right brothers and are like Oh my god, they brought in avi. This is amazing, right? We didn't we didn't think we were gonna fly for a long time and then the right brothers got us up in the air That's true. That's sick. That's cool. They immediately turned into patent trolls as far as my understanding goes I could be wrong about this a little bit of online research led me to find that They got their patent and then just Just wrecked everyone else as much as they could and like very close to stopped innovating Oh, jeez. They they like got aviation off the ground and then just tried to make money off of what they did Did you get this info from grok? No, okay, but there's also like in my opinion the Which I don't think is as common anymore, but being an inventor as your trade as like what you do Probably became a thing Because of things like patents and ip law. Oh, yeah, he's an inventory like no one has thought of you know, uh automatic egg Making machine or something It's a chicken at one point ip law, copyright law patent law, whatever, uh Spurred innovation and if we get rid of it, you're worried that we would lose that there's but there's there's stories in both sides because like Let's come back to more ip specific law, right? Disney kind of owned children's entertainment for a long time Most of our lives and a lot of before it. Yes, and now they're losing But they're not losing because you can use mickey mouse in other content now Because that is the thing that happened That was like a tiny splash a bunch of games all came out all at once right when that got lifted That all features micky mouse. Yeah, and none of them were good. Everyone stopped caring Almost immediately no one talks about it anymore at all and bluey is just completely taking their life. Heck. Yeah Have you watched bluey? I have seen some bluey bluey's frickins. It makes me cry They like lost their ability to protect their ip on mickey, right and it didn't matter and that's why the mcu Didn't isn't as good anymore Because they they're losing there because they stopped they didn't stop Uh steamboat willy from escaping He was going to join the avengers Steamboat willy was yeah, honestly. I would go watch that I would I haven't watched a Marvel movie in many years if steamboat willy joined the adventures adventures. I would go I mean, I will say that like one argument for the deleting of ip law is the The the few times there's been a couple times where disney points puts out a project and it seems like the entire point of The project is just a brag about how much ip they have Like did you see the ralph wrecks the internet movie? Like quite a few years ago. Did you you saw it? I think so. Okay. Yeah, it was just the whole movie just seemed like they were like Wait wreck it ralph. So there's wreck it ralph and then the sequel was ralph breaks the internet Wreck it ralph. They had a couple I recognizable people there was sonic It was there like bowser and stuff But then they go to the internet in the second one and they they go to like disney the disney website And it's just like wow, what a magical place. Look there's star wars and there's these then lilo and stitch and label And like they're just showing all the princesses are there So it was basically like look at all these things that used to be cool that watching that movie Made me think like this is kind of like if I if I watch that movie and then jack dorsy Called me up and like we should delete all ip law and I'd be like jack you're so smart Why don't we talk more often? No Please call me it kind of makes me feel that way because it's like we're heading into this ai future Where if ai gets power like there's kind of two paths that I see. Yeah One is We lock this down and we're like enough Ai companies you're going all over the place. You're you're slurping up everyone's stuff and making slop We need to stop this you if you want to train on material you got to license it You got to pay all the people you've already trained other material like like either that that's not going to happen but like that's either we kind of move in that direction or Things just kind of keep progressing as they have been and copyright and ip Just kind of become This kind of nebulous like like the the walls get torn down a lot more. Yeah And it's a lot more sketchy As to what's infringing and what's not you think we're going there. I think we're going there So jack doors. He's gonna mostly maybe get his way. I think he's going to partially win. I don't think like I said earlier I don't think we're gonna be deleting ip law, but I think there will be significant reform because I I don't see America effectively just kind of Being willing to lose the ai race Because I see this as they're in in their opinion. This is this is computers. This is uh.com They have to fight again. So I I think I agree with you if we're talking about like the powers that be Yeah, the uh, you know tech corporations government They definitely don't want to lose to china. Yeah The question then is what is what are the how do the people feel about it? Oh, yeah, because every time I encounter sentiment about ai and Copyright online. This is why this tweet was so interesting because the vast majority of The discourse around ai and copyright online is like Yeah, there's these ai companies are stealing from people. Well, they are yeah. Yeah, and you have the tech bros, you know Whatever coming out every once in a while being like We need to chill a guys. We need like how are we gonna get exponential growth if we don't steal all this copyrighted stuff? um And but they don't usually like that's not getting a ton of engagement. It's like this but this is saying the quiet part out loud pretty much It's because it's because it doesn't feel good. They are stealing stuff They are taking other people's work and they are directly aggressively profiting off of it the Well profiting off of investment, I guess most these companies are really not making a profit Yeah, they're not they're not taking the copyright machine and putting it into a different machine and it's like wow It's chewing up the copyright and spitting out profit. Yeah, they're tricking people into thinking their value machine putting a cool Little bow on it and be like you want to give me money? Yeah for nothing. Yeah sick. Um The bubble man Yeah, the bubble's pretty sorry you're you're saying something though. No, it's just it doesn't feel good. Yeah, it's morally I think it's like bad You're taking significant work from people especially Oh, and we already see this from google right a lot of small brands are getting screwed over by these search engines and now also by ai systems because Everything's intercepting Like even right now if you're using google search not even if you're in a chat program If you're using google search it will give you an ai summary at the top And the ai summary will often make it so that you do not have to go through and click onto one of those websites And that is making it so that independent small time research writing Whatever is all effectively being defunded by these platforms that are using them in order to succeed Right and that is a crazy concept. Yeah, because like okay, we might win the ai race But at what cost the cost of like literally everything else I was gonna say like okay. Yeah, definitely at the cost of like You know smaller creators smaller like copyright holders or whatever Uh smaller companies that are trying to get up and the seo rankings and they just can't I think but also at the cost of like I feel like our minds there have been some studies looking at People who use ai a lot versus people who don't use ai a lot and it's like Looking at their like problem-solving ability your ability like novel tasks. Yeah, they're worse at it And I I know that when I go to google something it gives me an ai overview I know how to google stuff. My whole job is like researching stuff and like reporting on it So like I've learned how to be really good good at like google foo. Yeah, but Most people are not and they're going to be even worse now If they don't even have to click into like one site to see what the see the answer Or what the quote unquote answer Because it might be it might be fake. So I don't it's it's crazy that we we all know That ai hallucinates and just makes stuff up all the time But a huge portion of the internet like genuinely a lot of people seem to be going under the the route of Blindlessly verifying things with ai. Mm-hmm. So like you see this on the tweeters, which I'm still going to call it Um where someone will be like At grok is this true don't call it the tweeters the tweeters Just call it twitter twitter. All right Um But they'll ask like grok or perplexity or whatever other ones will respond to tweets if something is true And then they will just take that fully at face value. I may Which is brutal. I made a joke about this in teclic the other day because yeah, I've seen this where Someone makes a claim and someone's like, I don't think that's true and they're like, well It is because look at this website and then they say hey grok is this true and it's like just click on the website Just google it. Why are you asking an ai that may or may not lie to your face? Like they've gotten a lot better, but they still hallucinate enough that it's like, why are you trusting? Yeah, and then it was even worse as the people who are like I collaborated with chat gpt on on this and then they like post some giant freaking thing What was your participation? I was wondering about whether this is the case So I asked chat gpt and it told me that so I guess chat gpt likes this and it's like guys stop Yeah, the confirmation bias is crazy too because a lot of the chat programs will try to detect what you're leaning towards and just affirm it Yeah, because people like those responses We've done a lot of bashing on ai so far. Yeah, but I It serves it. Well, it does But I know that you and I Well, I don't know but I have a suspicion that you and I share an appreciation for some of its upsides as well Yeah, and I want to talk about that After this segue to our sponsor Okay, now ai this essentially the argument we're talking about is ai safety versus innovation speed because it's like Is it more worth going for the moral argument of this sucks? We're stealing things from people or is it more worth not losing to china? Right, and this is why I think the reason why there hasn't been precedent set is these are such different weights That it's it's hard to And like the same person can want both sides of it Very deeply the same person can want to not steal All thought creation from humanity ever And also not want to lose this war because if you lose this then this side didn't matter anyways, so it's like It's especially hard because you can like As you were saying that my first kind of like gut reaction is like but what about principles, you know like there's kind of like You know the utilitarian thing of like this is what's necessary in order to win But i'm like oh at what cost what if we lose our soul as as a as a society But at the same time it's like well If china develops a Super intelligence that kind of hacks the entire world and makes everything You know whatever they want it to be then we won't have a society That's like very far on the end of the possibilities, but I mean there's also the the problem of How consumers act about things which is everyone will say online not everyone i'm exaggerating a lot of people will say online that they want the You know don't steal everything from everyone route But then if a company that does do that releases a model that's better They will use it well And yeah that and like that the precedent of that is like Carved into every stone on the planet who's they when you say they will use it users If if everyone knows that many uh things are made in sweatshops by slaves and they keep buying them people won't like Gambling but they'll watch kick people won't like a certain thing Yeah, but then if the thing is better they'll buy it anyways And I guess this kind of comes into a part of the conversation that I wanted to address which was the usefulness of ai the the pros of ai because I remember I had friends that are not techie people um one is a teacher and In like 2023 like shortly after chat gpt. He's released. I go and talk to him and he's like yeah chat I use chat gpt all the time like first of all I was like, you know what chat gpt is because these are like not techie people Yeah, and he's like yeah use it to help me like make a lesson growth in history Yeah, I have to hit a lot of people right? Yeah, and and he was using it to make lesson plans for his kids and like coming up with ideas for stuff And I was like wow like because that that was at a point where I even I wasn't really I I haven't found it to be super super useful for my specific Work yeah, um my my dad's a plumbing instructor and they use it for yeah lesson plans Yeah, and once it gets like once these actual like multimodal updates get out like it's uh gemini live is now Available with the live camera feed. Yeah, I think chat gpt has I know you can feed images and I think they have a camera mode for the gem like there's live mode too. There's um I think a lot of people dramatically misuse AI And like for instance like I say that about my dad's lesson plan lesson plans for plumbing and people like oh Hopefully doesn't like teach people to go outside of code and it's like well. No, he's controlling those aspects He's using it to build the structure Right to build the pacing to come up with the document that he can put the information on He's using it to help organizational skills those types of things the way that I'll often use it is to Review my output and give me feedback on my output. I don't use it for output But like what kind of output are you talking about my most common use case is I will write an email that is like I sure hope this goes well Uh, so but you know, maybe I have to be rather serious or whatever in the tone of the email But I want to make sure that I get my point across but not come across as aggressive or whatever else So I'll ask it for a sentiment analysis of the email. Oh, and then I might ask it like if I'm like, okay That's not what I wanted someone to get from this Yeah, and it got that from this then I'll be like, okay How would you change it to get it there? And then I won't use its output, but I'll use it to help Guide me in that direction. Did I mention lizards too many times? Well, like sometimes their email is pretty good But you seem weirdly focused on lizards Maybe you should draw back on the lizards. I think they're not like a reptile person Maybe cats we've had um, I think it's also a good um kickstarter of sorts like For for writer's block, for instance, if you have to write, um A video on something you could use it to give you your skeleton. I've found I've tried to get it to write youtube videos Man, it sucks. Yeah, I don't know if you've tried. I've used it a couple times when I like Can't think of a word for something or like I'm like Writing a joke and I'm like, oh man This is like this and I'm just like drawing a blank and I'm like, what's uh Was this thing something like when this guy says this and then another guy comes at it like that and they're like Maybe this and I'm like, okay. Thank you. Yeah, that makes sense. But but writing whole scripts. No, no good but You can use it as like a research assistant Um, again, there's huge pitfalls there because you shouldn't just believe what it outputs But you can use it as like a kicking off point So like something that I've done is like, okay Here's a topic What are the like key fields of interest in this topic? Right and it'll give me that list and then I'll go off and Yeah, learn things about those all of the ai chatbots now have like deep research modes It does a good job of like giving you kind of a beginner's summary of stuff But if you know a lot about a topic and you're like What was the finding of this research like in the 19th whatever and it's like they found up this They found this stuff that I just made up because I'm an ai and you're like, well, I know that's not true So it's like, but that's why like you mentioned earlier in the show that it's getting better with like hallucinations and stuff A little bit It's only a little bit. I think it's getting better at convincing people that it's not doing it. Yeah. Um, I don't know I don't personally think it's getting Dramatically better overall Um There are measures that it's getting a bit better But I really think it's just getting better at convincing people and it's getting better at using slightly more vague language and stuff like that to get away from um Actually being pointed as doing things wrong because I catch it hallucinating stuff. Oh, yeah All the time I will say that I've I've I've just started trying to use it a little bit to help me research tech length stories Um, it's kind of like one of the steps in the process And it has not been it has not been very uh useful But most of the time it's not hallucinating fake stuff as much as it's like I'm asking for Uh stories that are recent and it like brings me something from a month ago. Here's something from last quarter. Yeah. Yeah On balance if you look at the whole field Do you feel like the majority of ai tools that are available? Are like helpful or just kind of taking up space and taking up resources. Whoa, okay Because there's a majority of ai tools. So if you include every ai tool in that pool Then honestly, no, there's a lot of compute a lot of resources being taken up. Yeah, and they're able to do that because These companies vacuumed up ip vacuumed up copyright and massive investment because that's the the hotness right now I think most of the tools are are garbage and we'll lose and we'll die and that is how these like Very startup focus fields work. So that's pretty natural. I don't actually think that's weird. I don't think that's ai specific I think that's just that's true big new fancy field with lots of investment dollars and everyone trying to dive in all at the same time So a lot of those people are gonna make garbage for for the handful of like crypto projects that were actually kind of cool Yeah, maybe like we can they did exist. They did like the idea of having some like Records and stuff on a blockchain system. That was cool. Yep, but for every one of those there were 250 thousand Yeah, garbage things. So it's the same for ai, but Maybe that all won't matter if You know, we only need one we only need one asi artificial super intelligence And then it'll all be worth it Ascii you can do it. Yeah, what? Yeah, ascii artificial super general intelligence I've never heard that together. I've heard agi and asi You can't just put them together like that. We were talking earlier about innovators. That's true. I'm an inventor. Wow Here's a patent, sir That was you just witnessed innovation jack dorsey. This is what you're trying to kill. Yeah Stop it think of the children So maybe jack dorsey's right and we'll have a utopia and none of us will own any ip and everything will be fine And maybe jack dorsey and ilo musk and sam altman Especially sam altman Are gonna enslave all of us. Yeah, definitely especially sam altman and those are the two options Ilan just wants to impregnate all of us. He can be persuasive I think this has been a huge wake-up call for people about uh, chinese position on value chain america has traditionally been positioned very high on the value chain and then I think in a lot of north american views You you go down the value chain from america and end up in china and a few other countries at the bottom of the value chain But I think this and the tariff were going on and a few other things have revealed That china is much higher on the value chain than we previously thought and has the active ability now To take rungs on the value chain. Yes, and I think one of those Yes No, I was just saying that because I was thinking about a recent story that just came up with their They have chips that they say are More performant than NVIDIA's equivalent. But anyways, go ahead. Yeah, I'm like, I don't know all about that being true But yeah, who knows they're they're progressing very quickly in a lot of these fields CPU's GPU's AI technology movies random one Lots and lots lots of fields where they're they're really taking major steps forward One of those places insane story that I I don't understand how it doesn't get talked about more But uh the quote that I have here is ford ceo jim farley admitted He's been driving a xiaomi su 7 for six months and doesn't want to give it up The ford ceo drives a 30 000 dollar chinese electric made vehicle. Sorry chinese made electric vehicle Unavailable in the us due to tariffs and safety regulation issues. Is this something that he revealed uh on a podcast Like like of his own volition. We are now. We're basically the ford ceo. Yes, he did It was of his own volition. Why would he do that? I feel like that's like so dumb motor company Mentioned that he didn't want to give up a 30 000 dollar vehicle from a competing company because it was so good That should be is he about to cash out or something like what donning wake up call the people Yeah about the automotive industry outside of america Yeah, I think in e v's in particular. Oh, yeah, china is like leapfrogging the automotive industry I start falling apart and have panel gaps that I can shove my fists through um and are like You know, they're they're just partying on slack sharing people's Videos and stuff like that. So like if you're and I think that's a big part of the problem too We're like when you when you think about chinese products people traditionally go like oh, but like they're gonna steal your information Right. It's like yeah, but we we know That our companies are yeah for sure. Well, yeah, that's a documented evidence. That's a whole another that's a whole another conversation I feel like which I'm still I don't know what to think about Because that's been the main reason why I'm like, uh, don't I don't want to use that like chinese phone or whatever Who knows what data they're sending but I know my dad is going out to all these other companies. So like so at a certain point it's like This is the future. This is what they're saying. They're like ip doesn't matter your personal information doesn't matter You'll own nothing including your own personal information And your own thoughts If you can't sell them anymore neural link and you'll be happy. Yeah, but we'll have to see I don't know if this tweet that jack dorsy reposted is gonna come to pass in which so he tweeted He retweeted a interview with microsoft a i ceo Mustafa Suleyman who says the future isn't ubi universal basic income. It's ubp universal basic provision Abundant intelligence as the new currency you won't need more money because knowledge won't be something you buy Not cash capability. We won't need cash because we'll have ai assistants who can do everything for us You don't need to go to the store and buy a pop A soda Your ai will just synthesize it for you. Okay This feels like that south park episode where randy can't fix his oven because he can't fix the oven door and then the the like Handy men people end up being the wealthiest people in society Because no one can fix anything because no one knows how to do anything And they they I don't remember if this happens in the episode, but I'm gonna make it up. I guess I'm hallucinating But they they like ask an ai to fix the door and it just tries to teach him how to do it But he's like no, I want you to fix the door it keeps giving them steps But he's like no, I want you to fix the door like we don't have things that can do our laundry right now We don't have things that can build houses. We don't have things that can fix plumbing We don't have things that can do any of that kind of stuff It's like he's talking about provisions of like this thing that can draw studio ghibli for me Or like write a terrible email or a really really really bad youtube video that would get one view Like is that really I'm really excited about that being a universal provision. Thanks bro I think that's what makes the whole conversation just so so hard to come down on one side of because it's so uncertain You need your apartment to not leak. Is is is chat gpt gonna help you with that? Yeah like It's hot and there's there's droughts and and uh like there's peaks and valleys too Like sometimes it seems like the ai whole thing is just hype and sometimes it's like oh, this is okay. It's happening. Yeah We're not gonna solve it in this podcast But maybe in the next one so subscribe possibly I wouldn't want to miss it. It might happen. Maybe we'll invent a gi Right here a s watch out open ai We're gonna delete your ip Hey, thanks for watching. Uh, that was a talk linked. Uh, subscribe to TechLinked See you later. Maybe I'll do another one of these in half a year. Nope never happening never again. Bye You"}