WEBVTT 00:00:00.000 --> 00:00:07.000 There is a bill, there is only a bill, and it's coming to ban your teens from social media. 00:00:09.000 --> 00:00:11.000 On Capitol Hill. 00:00:12.000 --> 00:00:19.000 That's right, it's talk linked. We're back with another episode about the Florida social media ban. 00:00:19.000 --> 00:00:24.000 This is not another episode, we've never done it before. But Jacob is here to tell you all about it. 00:00:24.000 --> 00:00:28.000 Hi. And I'll tell you about it too, we both will. What has happened? 00:00:28.000 --> 00:00:31.000 Well Ron DeSantis just signed a law. 00:00:31.000 --> 00:00:35.000 He's the Florida governor. He's the Florida governor, that's important to know. He's Florida governor. 00:00:35.000 --> 00:00:38.000 He's not just some guy. He's also very red. 00:00:39.000 --> 00:00:42.000 In both literally and metaphorically. He gets a lot of sun. 00:00:42.000 --> 00:00:46.000 He seems to, he's a passionate man. 00:00:46.000 --> 00:00:48.000 Okay. And what's- 00:00:50.000 --> 00:00:53.000 And you can see in his face, but you know. 00:00:53.000 --> 00:01:03.000 Okay, we need to actually like- Okay, so anyway, the point is, so he passed this bill that's being called one of the U.S.'s most restrictive social media bans for minors. 00:01:04.000 --> 00:01:15.000 And when it takes effect, which I believe is January 1st next year, it will, children under 14 will not be able, those will just be banned from having social media accounts. 00:01:15.000 --> 00:01:18.000 Yeah, you literally just can't do it. 00:01:18.000 --> 00:01:21.000 Oh, you're 13 and a half, banned. 00:01:21.000 --> 00:01:26.000 We're back to, we're back to the early days of social media when you had to be, I think over 13. 00:01:26.000 --> 00:01:30.000 Yeah, well, you had to lie. I remember when I created my Facebook account, I lied. 00:01:30.000 --> 00:01:34.000 You either had to be over 13 or be morally unscrupulous. 00:01:34.000 --> 00:01:37.000 Yeah. Inscrupulous? Actually, I think my mom lied for me. 00:01:37.000 --> 00:01:41.000 So, can't you, can you want me to create a Facebook account for me? 00:01:41.000 --> 00:01:46.000 This is the joke you made earlier today. If you're gonna like tweets, I'd prefer you to do it at home. 00:01:46.000 --> 00:01:50.000 If you're gonna post to Facebook, I'd rather you did it at home. 00:01:50.000 --> 00:01:54.000 Mom, if you don't let me do it here, I'm just gonna go to the bar and swipe on TikTok. 00:01:54.000 --> 00:02:00.000 They're just gonna go to the cyber cafe and they're gonna get unlicensed internet. 00:02:00.000 --> 00:02:03.000 Yeah, so this is pretty wild. 00:02:03.000 --> 00:02:19.000 I remember hearing that Florida was working on this and I know that a number of other states have tried to do similar social media bans where minors are prevented from creating accounts and using these platforms. 00:02:19.000 --> 00:02:22.000 And it's worth noting as well, just keep your thought. 00:02:22.000 --> 00:02:29.000 But the 14 and 15 year olds require parental permission to create social media accounts, so it also affects them. 00:02:29.000 --> 00:02:36.000 Yeah, so once you're 16, destroy your body, melt your brain. 00:02:36.000 --> 00:02:40.000 You can drive and also go on Facebook without mom's permission. 00:02:40.000 --> 00:02:46.000 And we joke about it, but there have been many, many, many, many studies done. 00:02:46.000 --> 00:02:50.000 And I feel like it's basically... Many done by Facebook themselves. 00:02:50.000 --> 00:02:58.000 Yeah, it's basically an uncontroversial truth now that social media is not good for young kids. 00:02:58.000 --> 00:03:03.000 Or anyone really. There's an argument to be made for society. 00:03:03.000 --> 00:03:16.000 Yeah, yeah. And despite this, I feel like, you know, obviously it is a charged issue, like any other issue that requires people to make laws. 00:03:16.000 --> 00:03:24.000 But I think it's somewhat uncontroversial at this point that social media is not good for people in general. 00:03:24.000 --> 00:03:28.000 The debate is whether... 00:03:28.000 --> 00:03:34.000 What we do about that. Yeah, so let's get a few more details about this. 00:03:34.000 --> 00:03:42.000 This bill has been passed through both houses of the Florida state government and has been signed by Governor Ron DeSantis, 00:03:42.000 --> 00:03:45.000 meaning that, as you said, it is an actual law now. 00:03:45.000 --> 00:03:48.000 It is law. It just hasn't taken effect yet. Yes. 00:03:48.000 --> 00:03:56.000 We're in the fun-waiting period, the bureaucracy. Right. And in other states where they've tried similar bills, they've encountered legal challenges from people who are saying, 00:03:56.000 --> 00:03:59.000 you know, this is not constitutional or whatever, so then... 00:03:59.000 --> 00:04:07.000 Like Mark Zuckerberg. As far as I'm aware, you know, we said it was the most restrictive social media ban in the country. 00:04:07.000 --> 00:04:16.000 As far as I'm aware, other states haven't successfully gone all the way through in making such bans law, although we should check that. 00:04:16.000 --> 00:04:24.000 Oh, I was wrong. Other states have already banned social media for minors without parental consent. 00:04:24.000 --> 00:04:34.000 So I believe that's why this bill is being called the most restrictive, because I believe Arkansas, Ohio, and Utah... 00:04:34.000 --> 00:04:37.000 I think California has a ban as well, although I don't know the details of theirs. 00:04:37.000 --> 00:04:50.000 They've banned minors. I think each of the states has different age limits, but for people under a certain age, those states have banned social media without parental consent, 00:04:50.000 --> 00:04:53.000 which is very interesting. So that already exists. 00:04:53.000 --> 00:04:57.000 I didn't actually know that. We're in Canada, so we don't know. 00:04:57.000 --> 00:05:00.000 Our parents let us do anything we want. 00:05:00.000 --> 00:05:04.000 As long as we say please and thank you and sorry. 00:05:04.000 --> 00:05:07.000 Especially once you're over 18 and you move out. 00:05:07.000 --> 00:05:13.000 Now, what's interesting about this, and especially I believe a lot of the states that you mentioned is that they are red states. 00:05:13.000 --> 00:05:20.000 And these sorts of things. Well, I guess you can make the argument because there's parental permission that it's still, it's not necessarily infringing on parents' rights, 00:05:20.000 --> 00:05:26.000 though one issue that is normally championed by the Republican Party is small government, which this obviously is not. 00:05:26.000 --> 00:05:36.000 Though, I will say about parental permission, one person that had an issue with this Florida bill in its original form was none other than a signer of this bill, Ron DeSantis, 00:05:36.000 --> 00:05:46.000 who actually vetoed it initially because it initially was everyone 16 and under, no social media for you. 00:05:46.000 --> 00:05:53.000 And then I guess he settled, he was like, all right, I'll give it to you guys if you like make it parental permission for 14 and 15 years. 00:05:53.000 --> 00:06:03.000 I did find that interesting. One of the earlier articles I was reading about it was like mentioned that other people were opposing it, but it is interesting to see that, 00:06:03.000 --> 00:06:10.000 because I believe this bill was not put forward by Ron DeSantis, it was put forward by the Republicans. 00:06:10.000 --> 00:06:15.000 States and Republicans. Yeah, yeah. And so, you know. 00:06:15.000 --> 00:06:22.000 Or I should say House Republicans, because I know that it was the top legislative priority, according to The Guardian, for Republican State House Speaker Paul Renner. 00:06:22.000 --> 00:06:33.000 Right, right, okay, yeah. So like, we're going to try our best obviously to like not get too political with this discussion, but obviously it is a political issue. 00:06:33.000 --> 00:06:44.000 And as you said, it's interesting, at the very least, to see that this is an issue where, you know, Republicans are at the front of the issue, 00:06:44.000 --> 00:06:47.000 trying to institute these bans. 00:06:47.000 --> 00:06:57.000 Well, in other scenarios, like say, changes to school curriculum, Republicans are for more parents' rights in that scenario. 00:06:57.000 --> 00:07:04.000 In this scenario, one of the things that the Democrats have said against this bill is that, oh, it doesn't respect parents' rights enough. 00:07:04.000 --> 00:07:12.000 So, you know, that's just interesting. At least one, because it's worth noting for accuracy and for, you know, nonpartisanship. 00:07:12.000 --> 00:07:20.000 Some Democrats did join the majority of the Republican majority who supported this bill. 00:07:20.000 --> 00:07:23.000 Like there were Democrats who were like, yeah, I'm for it. 00:07:23.000 --> 00:07:29.000 Right, yeah. But like, you also have people like Anna Escamani, she's a Democratic State House representative, 00:07:29.000 --> 00:07:35.000 and she said in a news release that the alternative would be better to ensure improved parental oversight tools, 00:07:35.000 --> 00:07:42.000 improved access to data to stop bad actors, alongside major investments in Florida mental health systems and programs. 00:07:42.000 --> 00:07:48.000 And I do think that's an interesting point, just because those seem like more general supports. 00:07:48.000 --> 00:07:54.000 And so it wouldn't be so, the bill wouldn't be so one-sided. 00:07:54.000 --> 00:08:01.000 It seems weirdly, weirdly surgical, because there's probably, I mean, there's areas of gray. 00:08:01.000 --> 00:08:09.000 From what I understand from the law, what they're looking at specifically are like, they don't necessarily name any specific platforms, 00:08:09.000 --> 00:08:16.000 but they name ones that have like infinite scrolling, liking as like an ability, these sorts of things. 00:08:16.000 --> 00:08:24.000 So there are like, like with any law, there are things that maybe are similar to what they are trying to get rid of that aren't necessarily covered under the law. 00:08:24.000 --> 00:08:31.000 So having something like to play, you know, I guess devil's advocate, depending on where you land, 00:08:31.000 --> 00:08:41.000 this suggestion of just generally supporting parental oversight tools on all platforms and supporting mental health 00:08:41.000 --> 00:08:47.000 treats sort of things that are like social media addiction, make some logical sense. 00:08:47.000 --> 00:08:52.000 With any of these bills, there's going to be particularities that are brought up, because we haven't read the bill. 00:08:52.000 --> 00:09:01.000 So like, even if you are broadly for the idea that, you know, children under a certain age shouldn't be allowed to create accounts and use social media, 00:09:01.000 --> 00:09:06.000 you might have an issue with the way that these bills are presented and like some of the language in them. 00:09:06.000 --> 00:09:16.000 And that's a lot of the opposition to certain bills in the process of government often comes down to like, okay, the bill is about this, 00:09:16.000 --> 00:09:21.000 but they also have this little section that's like saying that they're going to do this and I'm against that. 00:09:21.000 --> 00:09:26.000 So then you have to oppose the bill broadly and that's, you know, that's why things take so long. 00:09:26.000 --> 00:09:32.000 In case you were wondering why nothing ever gets done, it's because, you know, there's so many safeguards in place. 00:09:32.000 --> 00:09:40.000 If you want something else, then you might have to, you know, try to get that, I don't know, communist revolution going, if that's what you're into. 00:09:40.000 --> 00:09:49.000 You alluded to something earlier that I think is important to remember when you're, when, you know, we're talking about all these like, tick-tock bands and social media bands and whatnot. 00:09:49.000 --> 00:09:54.000 Spoilers. Yeah, spoilers. We are going to talk about the tick-tock band as well in a few minutes. 00:09:55.000 --> 00:10:06.000 It's that these bands are targeting the features of the platform themselves, the kind of addictive qualities, the constant notifications you get, 00:10:06.000 --> 00:10:13.000 the algorithmic like tendency to push certain types of content over other types of content. 00:10:13.000 --> 00:10:22.000 It's not the content itself that's the problem, it's the way that the platforms are dealing with it that ends up being just like... 00:10:22.000 --> 00:10:26.000 That are, you know, enticing you to spend more and more time on the platforms. 00:10:26.000 --> 00:10:32.000 You know, at the risk of sounding like an old man, when I was young... 00:10:32.000 --> 00:10:39.000 Well, there you go, you already did it. When I was in, when I was in high school, you know, we had MSN, chat or whatever. 00:10:39.000 --> 00:10:44.000 Facebook really started once I was in second year university or first year and... 00:10:44.000 --> 00:10:47.000 I remember asking some honeys for their MSN messenger. 00:10:48.000 --> 00:10:51.000 That was a big deal when I worked up the courage to do that. 00:10:51.000 --> 00:10:55.000 See, I was too busy talking to the chatbot. 00:10:55.000 --> 00:11:00.000 There was a chatbot? They had a chatbot on MSN and you could go and talk to them. 00:11:00.000 --> 00:11:08.000 I mean, it was talk to it. It was very, very, very simple and you could kind of exhaust all the possibilities of conversation with it in like a few minutes. 00:11:08.000 --> 00:11:12.000 But it was like... Anyway. It was actually really interesting. 00:11:12.000 --> 00:11:19.000 It was before LLMs and all that obviously. But regardless, I didn't have to deal with this like toxic sludge growing up. 00:11:19.000 --> 00:11:23.000 Yeah. And there is like... And I can't imagine what it's doing. 00:11:23.000 --> 00:11:27.000 I can see why people don't want their kids on social media. 00:11:27.000 --> 00:11:32.000 Especially because like, you know, the one argument for why kids should be on social media is because their friends are on social media. 00:11:32.000 --> 00:11:38.000 And that's not a good argument for everything. Parents have been dismissing that argument for years with bridge-based arguments. 00:11:38.000 --> 00:11:41.000 Yeah. It's a bridge-based arguments at the core of... 00:11:41.000 --> 00:11:50.000 Yeah, jumping off bridge arguments. This bill, as we've said, is far from being actually enacted. 00:11:50.000 --> 00:12:02.000 They're definitely going to face legal challenges both from, you know, groups that oppose them, oppose the idea just on like political merits. 00:12:02.000 --> 00:12:08.000 And they're also going to be definitely opposed by the social media companies because you can make a law as much as you want. 00:12:08.000 --> 00:12:18.000 The people that make money? You can make a law, you can make regulations as much as you want, but then it's going to be up to the companies that you're regulating to enact those regulations. 00:12:18.000 --> 00:12:27.000 We're seeing this with the EU and their attempts to wrangle Apple and Google and Microsoft are apparently being really easy on. 00:12:27.000 --> 00:12:30.000 Doing some of the greatest bureaucratic work of our time. 00:12:30.000 --> 00:12:34.000 Yeah, kind of. There are some missteps, but that's not what this video is about. 00:12:34.000 --> 00:12:40.000 Again, we're not in Europe and Europeans probably have their own thoughts about this legislation and all that. 00:12:40.000 --> 00:12:51.000 But regardless, you know, to use the EU as an example, they say, okay, you have to allow third-party app stores Apple, and Apple's like, okay, this is how we're going to do it. 00:12:51.000 --> 00:12:54.000 Let us know. Weeks pass. In the comments. 00:12:54.000 --> 00:12:58.000 Weeks pass. The EU finally says, hey, that's not okay. 00:12:58.000 --> 00:13:01.000 And the Apple says, oh, okay, we'll come up with something else. 00:13:01.000 --> 00:13:05.000 Weeks pass. Here's our new law. You know, now I'm going into the future. 00:13:05.000 --> 00:13:09.000 This hasn't happened yet. But it's going to be a process. 00:13:09.000 --> 00:13:15.000 And in the meantime, how many kids' brains will be melted and slurped? 00:13:15.000 --> 00:13:18.000 By Mark Zuckerberg. Yes. 00:13:18.000 --> 00:13:21.000 To fuel his reptilian regime and body. 00:13:21.000 --> 00:13:24.000 To give him the fuel to BJJ Elon Musk. 00:13:24.000 --> 00:13:29.000 Another thing to consider about this, you know, the fallout is how related companies. 00:13:29.000 --> 00:13:35.000 I mean, I don't know if, if, uh, Prawn Hub, I think has how you can say without- 00:13:35.000 --> 00:13:38.000 They have the best frickin' seafood. 00:13:38.000 --> 00:13:41.000 Without the, without the algorithms catching you. 00:13:41.000 --> 00:13:44.000 Uh, you know, are they a social media site? 00:13:44.000 --> 00:13:47.000 Is YouTube, I think technically is a social media site? 00:13:47.000 --> 00:13:53.000 There is a lot of interesting things that are post on Prawn Hub that are not prawn-based. 00:13:53.000 --> 00:13:56.000 They may be shrimp or crawfish based. That's true. 00:13:56.000 --> 00:13:59.000 But regardless, I mean, you could view that as a form of social media. 00:13:59.000 --> 00:14:03.000 Yeah. People are in the comments saying things that they would also say in YouTube comments. 00:14:03.000 --> 00:14:06.000 I know. I've read our YouTube comments. Actually, that's a great point. 00:14:06.000 --> 00:14:10.000 Will YouTube, will these kids be allowed to go on YouTube? 00:14:10.000 --> 00:14:14.000 Oh. YouTube has a whole kids app. 00:14:14.000 --> 00:14:17.000 No, that's, that's gone now. You sure? 00:14:17.000 --> 00:14:20.000 I'm pretty sure. I'm pretty sure they got rid of YouTube kids. 00:14:20.000 --> 00:14:28.000 You can go ahead and check that out. But they definitely do have like infinite scrolling and liking and, um, all of that. 00:14:28.000 --> 00:14:33.000 So YouTube could be one of those forms of social media that kids are not allowed on, 00:14:33.000 --> 00:14:37.000 which YouTube's definitely gonna have a problem with, because that's big business. 00:14:37.000 --> 00:14:41.000 YouTube, uh, child entertainment on YouTube is massive. 00:14:41.000 --> 00:14:45.000 Look at Coco Melon as just one, as the most well-known example. 00:14:45.000 --> 00:14:49.000 And that's just one. Oh, I mean, don't even get me started on crappy kids content. 00:14:49.000 --> 00:14:52.000 Well, yeah, apparently YouTube kids, I think, is still a thing. Okay. 00:14:52.000 --> 00:14:56.000 Um, which I know because I went to use it. 00:14:56.000 --> 00:14:59.000 You have a YouTube kid? I have a YouTube kid. 00:14:59.000 --> 00:15:03.000 He's got his own channel. We're gonna support him. 00:15:03.000 --> 00:15:07.000 Uh, get him, get him sponsor brand deals. Welcome to my channel. 00:15:07.000 --> 00:15:10.000 Today we talk about dinosaurs. 00:15:10.000 --> 00:15:14.000 This, this Dimetrodon. 00:15:15.000 --> 00:15:23.000 Anyways, Pronhub, uh, said they're prepared to block Florida if, uh, the child safety law takes effect, 00:15:23.000 --> 00:15:28.000 because, um, they're gonna require IDs. 00:15:28.000 --> 00:15:34.000 Yeah. And I think that a big part of- That's sort of the early example of this, of this sort of legislation, 00:15:34.000 --> 00:15:39.000 is that there's, like, even California, they introduced laws to try and make, like, IDs, 00:15:39.000 --> 00:15:44.000 like, try and ID users to prevent them from going and looking at adult sites, 00:15:44.000 --> 00:15:47.000 like, like Pornhub. Right. 00:15:47.000 --> 00:15:52.000 And that's actually, you know, as well, a fair criticism of this type of law, 00:15:52.000 --> 00:16:01.000 is that, okay, your kids are going online and now you're requiring them to give social media companies 00:16:01.000 --> 00:16:05.000 even more sensitive data about them in the form of, like, your government ID. 00:16:05.000 --> 00:16:09.000 Yeah. So, you know, that's, that's one fair objection to the whole thing. 00:16:09.000 --> 00:16:13.000 Or their frickin' biometric data, which is something that was, it's not been put into effect, 00:16:13.000 --> 00:16:17.000 but it was something that was suggested by, I believe, the United Kingdom, 00:16:17.000 --> 00:16:21.000 because that's something that they're looking into in terms of, uh, is, is, 00:16:21.000 --> 00:16:26.000 is solutions to preventing, uh, children from, you know, accessing. 00:16:26.000 --> 00:16:31.000 Right. Uh, let's say red band, red band content. 00:16:31.000 --> 00:16:38.000 Right. Yes. So Pornhub, Pornhub is incentivized to, you know, stop this law from being enacted 00:16:38.000 --> 00:16:41.000 because a lot of their users don't want to have to put in IDs and whatnot. 00:16:41.000 --> 00:16:46.000 Uh, but at the same time, I don't want to be ID just to watch all of my math tutorials. 00:16:49.000 --> 00:16:54.000 Math, math-ter. There is a dude on there just does calculus, like, tutorials. 00:16:54.000 --> 00:16:57.000 Does he call it math-terbation? No. 00:16:57.000 --> 00:17:01.000 The other argument that Pornhub gives, though, is the fact that, like, okay, 00:17:01.000 --> 00:17:04.000 you're going to stop people from going on our site, 00:17:04.000 --> 00:17:08.000 but, like, you're regulating, like, we're going to abide by this 00:17:08.000 --> 00:17:12.000 because we're a big company and, you know, we're visible. 00:17:12.000 --> 00:17:15.000 We can lose the penis of you, the United States. 00:17:15.000 --> 00:17:18.000 Sure. But there's, no, I mean, they're just more visible. 00:17:18.000 --> 00:17:26.000 But they're, they're, they're tons and tons and tons of more, uh, websites out there 00:17:26.000 --> 00:17:29.000 that are less regulated and less visible that are still going to host porn. 00:17:29.000 --> 00:17:32.000 And then you're just going to push kids and whoever 00:17:32.000 --> 00:17:35.000 more towards these sketchier and sketchier sites. That's their argument. 00:17:35.000 --> 00:17:39.000 Mmm. I, you know, I, I'm not going to give a take on this right now 00:17:39.000 --> 00:17:42.000 because then we're just going to get into the weeds. Yeah. 00:17:42.000 --> 00:17:46.000 Um, but we're going to, uh- People make similar arguments about, like, 00:17:46.000 --> 00:17:51.000 really objectionable opinions and whether you should be able to share those on social media. 00:17:51.000 --> 00:17:56.000 Moderation? Yep. I mean, this is such a deep conversation. 00:17:56.000 --> 00:18:01.000 But the thing that I definitely wanted to mention while we're here is the Tiktok. 00:18:01.000 --> 00:18:06.000 Mmm. Uh, you know, it's being, it's being widely called the Tiktok Band Bill. 00:18:06.000 --> 00:18:09.000 Mmm. Which is a federal, uh, federal legislation. 00:18:09.000 --> 00:18:12.000 Tiktok Band Bill, we want Bill back. 00:18:12.000 --> 00:18:15.000 Bring him back, Tiktok. 00:18:15.000 --> 00:18:18.000 It's being called the Band Bill, but it's not actually a Band Bill. 00:18:18.000 --> 00:18:22.000 It's kind of like a, if you don't do this, then you'll get banned. 00:18:22.000 --> 00:18:25.000 And the thing that they have to do is- It's an offer you can't refuse, Bill. 00:18:25.000 --> 00:18:33.000 Yes. Yeah. They're, they're trying to legislate, uh, that a platform as large and influential, 00:18:33.000 --> 00:18:36.000 uh, in American society as Tiktok- And foreign operated. 00:18:36.000 --> 00:18:40.000 As Tiktok has to be owned by an American company. 00:18:40.000 --> 00:18:46.000 So the deal is, ByteDance, the owner of Tiktok, has to sell Tiktok, uh, 00:18:46.000 --> 00:18:51.000 divest itself of it in order for Tiktok to remain operating in the U.S. 00:18:51.000 --> 00:18:54.000 Mmm. And- Without VPNs. 00:18:54.000 --> 00:18:58.000 I don't, I really don't know where I personally sit on this, 00:18:58.000 --> 00:19:02.000 but one thing that we do know is ByteDance doesn't want to sell. 00:19:02.000 --> 00:19:05.000 Well, China doesn't want ByteDance to sell. 00:19:05.000 --> 00:19:08.000 It's both. Well, I mean, yeah. I mean, but that's the whole reason. 00:19:08.000 --> 00:19:11.000 Who wants to, who wants to get rid of a literal pile of money? 00:19:11.000 --> 00:19:15.000 Yeah. No one. No one's gonna, you know, you're right, America. 00:19:15.000 --> 00:19:19.000 I'm going to take this giant pile of money and I'm going to set it on fire Joker style. 00:19:19.000 --> 00:19:22.000 Well, that's the, so this is the whole question. 00:19:22.000 --> 00:19:29.000 It really comes down to, because ostensibly the reason why the U.S. government wants to ban Tiktok 00:19:29.000 --> 00:19:36.000 is because of this whole thing that China has with certain, well, with all companies 00:19:36.000 --> 00:19:43.000 technically. I think I'm not sure whether it's a threshold thing, but companies have to give the Chinese 00:19:43.000 --> 00:19:47.000 government data when the Chinese government comes knocking. 00:19:47.000 --> 00:19:54.000 And the U.S. knowing about this law is suddenly now, I mean, years ago. 00:19:54.000 --> 00:19:59.000 They've done things. They've banned it from work phones for government officials. 00:19:59.000 --> 00:20:03.000 But the reason, the reason they're doing all that is because now they're treating basically 00:20:03.000 --> 00:20:07.000 every Chinese company as if it's the CCP. 00:20:07.000 --> 00:20:12.000 Yeah. And I mean, that remains to be seen, whether that's kind of, because we don't know. 00:20:12.000 --> 00:20:18.000 Not without reason, because there were reports that came out that ByteDance employees were 00:20:18.000 --> 00:20:22.000 able to access the location of journalists. 00:20:22.000 --> 00:20:30.000 Yes. Using Tiktok. I think that unquestionably, well, but the question is, are they giving that data to the 00:20:30.000 --> 00:20:38.000 government? Yeah. It's one, like obviously social media companies are tracking our every thought, you know, but 00:20:38.000 --> 00:20:45.000 the question is, are ByteDance and other big companies, Chinese companies that have been 00:20:45.000 --> 00:20:54.000 the bad guy in the tech world for a spell, Huawei, are they actually guilty of just straight 00:20:54.000 --> 00:20:57.000 feeding data from users to the Chinese government? 00:20:57.000 --> 00:21:04.000 And I don't think you're crazy if you think that that's the case. I think that it's reasonable to think that if you're dealing with a Chinese company that 00:21:04.000 --> 00:21:09.000 the CCP could easily get their hands on that data if they don't already. 00:21:09.000 --> 00:21:17.000 However, I also don't know how much we should act as if when we're dealing with Tiktok, 00:21:17.000 --> 00:21:21.000 the CCP owns all these companies, because they don't own them. 00:21:21.000 --> 00:21:29.000 Yeah, but they have incredible influence on them. But even if they're not giving location to the CCP, another question that I would raise 00:21:29.000 --> 00:21:33.000 because of the point I raised, because I double checked it and I looked at sources now, is 00:21:33.000 --> 00:21:39.000 do you want to trust a company that even if they're not giving your location to China, 00:21:39.000 --> 00:21:46.000 their employees can improperly access data on the location of journalists? 00:21:46.000 --> 00:21:50.000 Yeah, and apparently they've done things to make that better. 00:21:50.000 --> 00:21:58.000 They did, like, move their servers, so they store North American users' data in North 00:21:58.000 --> 00:22:03.000 American servers, and I believe that elsewhere data is stored in Singapore. 00:22:03.000 --> 00:22:08.000 I mean, they're located in Singapore. I think European users' data is stored on the European server. 00:22:08.000 --> 00:22:12.000 But, you know, I don't know. 00:22:12.000 --> 00:22:23.000 There's so many unknowns. The other argument, of course, is why is America just doing this for the one Chinese social media platform? 00:22:23.000 --> 00:22:29.000 What about all the American ones? The real-time location of all those 14-year-olds is the property of the U.S. government. 00:22:29.000 --> 00:22:33.000 Yeah, yeah, yeah. I mean, right. 00:22:33.000 --> 00:22:41.000 Is that a double standard? This is kind of why when it comes to Chinese phones, I have, like, I don't know how to feel. 00:22:41.000 --> 00:22:48.000 Because on the one hand, you have your North American phones, or whatever, or non-Chinese phones, 00:22:48.000 --> 00:22:53.000 that is almost certainly giving data to these big social media companies 00:22:53.000 --> 00:22:57.000 who may or may not give it to the government if they ask. 00:22:57.000 --> 00:23:01.000 On the other hand, you have these Chinese phones who are like, 00:23:01.000 --> 00:23:06.000 let's say, for the sake of argument, they're certainly giving it to the CCP. 00:23:06.000 --> 00:23:10.000 Support American-made spyware. Which one's better? 00:23:10.000 --> 00:23:16.000 It's almost like I would rather have my data being harvested by someone who barely, 00:23:16.000 --> 00:23:19.000 like an entity that barely affects my life. 00:23:19.000 --> 00:23:23.000 The CCP may be through, like, broad economic trends, like it gets around to me, 00:23:23.000 --> 00:23:30.000 but, like, if they know, you know, my preferences and where I work, it's like, 00:23:30.000 --> 00:23:34.000 do I care more about that or do I care about, like, a local company, 00:23:34.000 --> 00:23:39.000 or a local government agency that is going to exert more power over my life directly? 00:23:39.000 --> 00:23:42.000 Do I care about them having it? It's like, I don't know. 00:23:42.000 --> 00:23:50.000 I don't know. We live in a world where, if I'm not mistaken, a few years ago, 00:23:50.000 --> 00:23:56.000 there was a lovely young woman who was, I believe, the student body president 00:23:56.000 --> 00:24:00.000 of the University of Toronto, and she just happened to be from Tibet. 00:24:00.000 --> 00:24:05.000 And when she was elected, or when she made a certain post, 00:24:05.000 --> 00:24:14.000 wouldn't you know what? She was bombarded with negative sentiments from Chinese-speaking people. 00:24:14.000 --> 00:24:21.000 And one of the things that came up was whether or not that was foreign action. 00:24:21.000 --> 00:24:29.000 Like, these are possibly foreign agents trying to fight the, you know, 00:24:29.000 --> 00:24:34.000 what's the most diplomatic way for me to say this? 00:24:34.000 --> 00:24:37.000 That Tibet exists? 00:24:37.000 --> 00:24:43.000 To fight that, whether Tibet is its own thing or whether it belongs to China? 00:24:43.000 --> 00:24:46.000 For a lot of people in the world, that may be a controversial statement. Yeah, it is. 00:24:46.000 --> 00:24:52.000 It is for a lot of people in the world. So, like, that was something that straight up affected Canadians. 00:24:52.000 --> 00:25:01.000 Right. And so, on the other hand, you might say that China having your preferences is the entity 00:25:01.000 --> 00:25:06.000 that's going to least affect you on a daily basis. But on the other hand, it might be the one that most affects you on a daily basis 00:25:06.000 --> 00:25:11.000 because they literally, they may or may not have agents that are just, their whole job 00:25:11.000 --> 00:25:14.000 is to, like, just hurt people on social media. Yeah. 00:25:14.000 --> 00:25:20.000 Well, I mean, so, like, you kind of bring up an important question because it's like, 00:25:20.000 --> 00:25:28.000 you could view TikTok as a foreign agent if you're making this connection between them 00:25:28.000 --> 00:25:34.000 and the CCP. And then it's like, okay, say, for the sake of argument, that there's a connection there. 00:25:34.000 --> 00:25:42.000 We have already, like, as it regards this bill, there has been China influenced action 00:25:42.000 --> 00:25:45.000 on American citizens. Yeah. 00:25:45.000 --> 00:25:52.000 And once news of this bill came out, TikTok made a push note, they pushed a notification 00:25:52.000 --> 00:25:56.000 to TikTok users saying, hey, this bill is being passed through Congress. 00:25:56.000 --> 00:25:59.000 If they pass it. No TikTok for you. 00:25:59.000 --> 00:26:04.000 TikTok could be banned. They're saying that it's not a ban, but, like, trust us, it's a ban. 00:26:04.000 --> 00:26:09.000 And then all the people who depend on TikTok for their businesses and who, like, for them, 00:26:09.000 --> 00:26:12.000 it's like a way of life. Or just like dancing. 00:26:12.000 --> 00:26:20.000 Sure. They called, they were told by TikTok to call the representatives, and they did en masse. 00:26:20.000 --> 00:26:23.000 Phone lines were flooded. 00:26:23.000 --> 00:26:27.000 Threats were made. Well, I mean, that's just what happens. 00:26:27.000 --> 00:26:34.000 Yeah. So, like, you have a foreign-owned company telling its American user base, which is huge, 00:26:34.000 --> 00:26:41.000 to go and enact some thing, take some action that affects the U.S. government, and it happens. 00:26:41.000 --> 00:26:44.000 That's a little scary. It is a little scary. It is a little scary. 00:26:44.000 --> 00:26:49.000 I mean, I feel like... Like, it's just calling, but... I feel like Met has tried to do something similar, and they... 00:26:49.000 --> 00:26:52.000 I don't know if they succeeded or failed, but does that... 00:26:52.000 --> 00:26:58.000 What is China doing that the U.S. is failing at, that they can get this loyal following 00:26:58.000 --> 00:27:02.000 and get young people actually interested in politics? 00:27:02.000 --> 00:27:06.000 Well, apparently, the thing that TikTok is doing well is their algorithm. 00:27:06.000 --> 00:27:13.600 Yes. It's widely regarded as the best recommendation algorithm in the industry, and a big reason 00:27:13.600 --> 00:27:22.200 why... It works so fast. It's so fast, and it's so good at serving people exactly what they want to see and what 00:27:22.200 --> 00:27:30.000 will be interesting to them. And so, like you said earlier, China doesn't want to sell, BiteDance doesn't want to sell. 00:27:30.000 --> 00:27:33.000 The reason China is definitely... 00:27:33.000 --> 00:27:40.500 They are invested in not selling is because in order to sell TikTok to an American owner 00:27:40.500 --> 00:27:49.000 or whatever, they would have to grant a technology export license for the TikTok algorithm, which 00:27:49.000 --> 00:27:57.000 in their mind is like, this is like a Chinese asset. This is like innovation that happened here, and now we're going to give it to someone 00:27:57.000 --> 00:28:05.000 else. They don't want to do that, obviously. It would be like Oppenheimer granting an export license on the nuke to Russia. 00:28:05.000 --> 00:28:11.000 It would be exactly like that. I haven't seen the movie, but I'm assuming. 00:28:11.000 --> 00:28:14.000 He didn't grant it. They got it anyway. They did. 00:28:14.000 --> 00:28:21.000 Via espionage. Yeah, but we've been trying. We can't build our own nuke, a.k.a. good algorithms. 00:28:21.000 --> 00:28:26.600 So, yeah, apparently the bill, the TikTok ban bill, quote unquote, is stalled in the Senate 00:28:26.600 --> 00:28:33.100 right now because the House passed it like crazy, the Federal Congress. 00:28:33.100 --> 00:28:37.760 It was a landslide, and now it's got to the Senate, and now people are kind of like waking 00:28:37.760 --> 00:28:41.120 up and realizing, wait a second, this is a bit more complicated. 00:28:41.120 --> 00:28:47.480 This is a tech company. They're regulated by a buttload of different government committees and agencies, and so 00:28:47.480 --> 00:28:55.400 that's going to be complicated. That brings up an interesting point on why this bill might be stalled. 00:28:55.400 --> 00:28:59.640 This is the right way to go about this, because not only was this bill happening, but now 00:28:59.640 --> 00:29:03.400 it's come out that apparently the FTC could sue them. 00:29:03.400 --> 00:29:07.440 Now, if you don't know what the Federal Trade Commission is, you might know their little 00:29:07.440 --> 00:29:13.160 known failure where they didn't stop Microsoft from acquiring Activision Blizzard. 00:29:13.160 --> 00:29:16.160 They're still trying. Even though... 00:29:16.160 --> 00:29:19.720 They're doing their darndest. Everyone else is acting like it's already happened. Yeah. 00:29:19.720 --> 00:29:23.520 Well, it did already happen. What they're trying to do now is make them divest. Right. 00:29:23.520 --> 00:29:26.640 Good luck. Reverse. Uno reverse card. 00:29:26.640 --> 00:29:33.740 Shot, shot, slide. Reverse, reverse. But now it's come out, at least according to a few sources that we've seen, one from 00:29:33.740 --> 00:29:40.840 Politico, that they are investigating TikTok over faulty privacy and data security practices, 00:29:40.840 --> 00:29:49.320 and they could sue not just TikTok, but maybe also ByteDance, because they're weighing the 00:29:49.320 --> 00:29:55.760 quote from the source, Politico source. They're weighing allegations that TikTok and its Beijing-based parent company ByteDance 00:29:55.760 --> 00:30:00.320 deceived its users by denying that individuals in China had access to their data and also 00:30:00.320 --> 00:30:08.040 violated the children's privacy law. So even if the TikTok ban bill doesn't go all the way through, they're still going to 00:30:08.040 --> 00:30:17.440 be in trouble in one way or another. It's hard to see how this is going to end with TikTok just chilling. 00:30:17.440 --> 00:30:23.200 It's like nothing changes, because the government clearly wants something's got to give. 00:30:23.200 --> 00:30:28.680 They want their pound of flesh. So we'll have to see. 00:30:28.680 --> 00:30:33.180 There's so many questions about whether government even has, whether this is actually the proper 00:30:33.180 --> 00:30:41.040 role of government to try and regulate platforms in the way that it's trying to do. 00:30:41.040 --> 00:30:45.600 Like obviously state governments are doing their own thing, and the federal government 00:30:45.720 --> 00:30:48.720 has national security issues. 00:30:48.720 --> 00:30:56.200 Those are at play here. But I don't know, it comes down to whether you believe that you have a fundamental constitutional 00:30:56.200 --> 00:31:01.240 right to swipe up and down all day, and whether your kids do too. 00:31:01.240 --> 00:31:04.880 And occasionally swipe left and swipe right. So that's all from us. 00:31:04.880 --> 00:31:10.120 There's a little meandering today, but there's a lot of topics that we kind of wanted to 00:31:10.120 --> 00:31:15.720 cover. There are a lot of questions to ask. Let us know in the comments what you think about the social media bands, and whether 00:31:15.720 --> 00:31:20.040 you think TikTok is going to cause climate change. 00:31:20.040 --> 00:31:27.720 And yeah, maybe we'll see you in the next one. And then also tell us, what is your favorite animal for a little bit of positivity? 00:31:27.720 --> 00:31:31.760 Just tell us what your favorite animal is, and then tell us why we're wrong on everything. 00:31:31.760 --> 00:31:35.680 And why is it the red panda, even though there's like 1,200 left of them in the wild? 00:31:35.680 --> 00:31:39.560 I don't know why you chose the one, like one of the two Chinese animals, like they're 00:31:39.560 --> 00:31:45.320 going to think we're... I love the red panda. They're going to think we're like false flags now. 00:31:45.320 --> 00:31:49.960 We've been bought by China. Watch Three Body Problem, and then you won't think the CCP's so great. 00:31:51.960 --> 00:31:55.440 Okay, subscribe to TechLink. See you later. 00:31:55.440 --> 00:31:58.440 Bye. I love you too. 00:31:58.440 --> 00:31:58.940 Oh, okay there.