{"video_id":"d4AFAIjDWbQ","title":"A.I. Art is Winning Art Competitions. - TalkLinked #11","channel":"TechLinked","show":"TechLinked","published_at":"2023-05-05T14:53:29Z","duration_s":1934,"segments":[{"start_s":0.06,"end_s":6.96,"text":"talk linked it's back with the number","speaker":null,"is_sponsor":0},{"start_s":3.6,"end_s":8.4,"text":"one co-host uh as voted by you the","speaker":null,"is_sponsor":0},{"start_s":6.96,"end_s":12.42,"text":"viewers of America I feel like I haven't been on talking in like two and a half years well that's because we haven't","speaker":null,"is_sponsor":0},{"start_s":10.98,"end_s":17.039,"text":"done it in like two and a half years all right let's get into it but then we started doing it and guess what we're","speaker":null,"is_sponsor":0},{"start_s":14.88,"end_s":20.4,"text":"talking about today James uh AI generated art see this is why I love you","speaker":null,"is_sponsor":0},{"start_s":18.96,"end_s":27.3,"text":"on talk linked you just want to cut right to the point yeah don't waste the beer's time","speaker":null,"is_sponsor":0},{"start_s":23.82,"end_s":30.5,"text":"information density let's go I","speaker":null,"is_sponsor":0},{"start_s":27.3,"end_s":33.6,"text":"just want to know how you're doing","speaker":null,"is_sponsor":0},{"start_s":30.5,"end_s":35.34,"text":"the reason we're here is because a news","speaker":null,"is_sponsor":0},{"start_s":33.6,"end_s":38.76,"text":"story just came out today about a synthetic media artist Jason Allen I","speaker":null,"is_sponsor":0},{"start_s":37.739,"end_s":44.1,"text":"think that actually came out yesterday but he won the Colorado State Fair Fine","speaker":null,"is_sponsor":0},{"start_s":41.879,"end_s":49.5,"text":"Arts competition in the Digital Arts category and good for him you know","speaker":null,"is_sponsor":0},{"start_s":46.92,"end_s":53.52,"text":"those judges got to catch up yeah uh wait why what do you mean","speaker":null,"is_sponsor":0},{"start_s":51.18,"end_s":56.82,"text":"because an AI generated his entry oh well that was the key that was the key","speaker":null,"is_sponsor":0},{"start_s":55.02,"end_s":64.079,"text":"detail that I hadn't gotten to yet yes the reason he won was because he isn't","speaker":null,"is_sponsor":0},{"start_s":60.059,"end_s":64.079,"text":"actually an artist at all arguably","speaker":null,"is_sponsor":0},{"start_s":66.26,"end_s":71.82,"text":"he used an AI called mid-journey and","speaker":null,"is_sponsor":0},{"start_s":69.9,"end_s":76.02,"text":"used a special prompt that he will be publishing quote unquote at a later date","speaker":null,"is_sponsor":0},{"start_s":73.56,"end_s":79.799,"text":"that's this whole process his uh 11 herbs of spices is that secret prompt","speaker":null,"is_sponsor":0},{"start_s":78.119,"end_s":84.659,"text":"right exactly what combination of text yielded this art piece yeah so so the","speaker":null,"is_sponsor":0},{"start_s":82.32,"end_s":89.82,"text":"whole story came about firstly because of this tweet that I'll click into","speaker":null,"is_sponsor":0},{"start_s":88.439,"end_s":93.42,"text":"um that someone was very upset about this","speaker":null,"is_sponsor":0},{"start_s":92.1,"end_s":99.24,"text":"but apparently um he goes by sincarnate on on Discord","speaker":null,"is_sponsor":0},{"start_s":96.06,"end_s":102.119,"text":"or whatever and he talked about his his","speaker":null,"is_sponsor":0},{"start_s":99.24,"end_s":107.579,"text":"win here and uh he's like hey that's so great look at this I I used a a personal","speaker":null,"is_sponsor":0},{"start_s":104.64,"end_s":111.06,"text":"project he's made using mid-journey and uh yeah people are upset about it","speaker":null,"is_sponsor":0},{"start_s":109.68,"end_s":116.1,"text":"James is AI art art","speaker":null,"is_sponsor":0},{"start_s":114.119,"end_s":121.14,"text":"first of all is it art and then we'll talk about whether you know you can take","speaker":null,"is_sponsor":0},{"start_s":117.899,"end_s":122.82,"text":"credit for it oh that's let's just start","speaker":null,"is_sponsor":0},{"start_s":121.14,"end_s":127.979,"text":"with the most philosophical and Abstract question like I guess the Crux of any","speaker":null,"is_sponsor":0},{"start_s":126.24,"end_s":133.379,"text":"anyone who squeamish to answer that with anything but a fast yes or no uh the","speaker":null,"is_sponsor":0},{"start_s":131.52,"end_s":137.099,"text":"that person was probably grappling with the question of does art need to be","speaker":null,"is_sponsor":0},{"start_s":135.3,"end_s":143.28,"text":"generated by humans really what it comes down to is it art uh","speaker":null,"is_sponsor":0},{"start_s":141.319,"end_s":147.239,"text":"in order to answer that question you have to you have to ask what is art well","speaker":null,"is_sponsor":0},{"start_s":145.62,"end_s":151.26,"text":"I think the thing with art is the fuzziness of it and when you're talking","speaker":null,"is_sponsor":0},{"start_s":148.86,"end_s":155.879,"text":"about a computer generating it it seems more like a computation this is an","speaker":null,"is_sponsor":0},{"start_s":153.66,"end_s":158.879,"text":"output it's deterministic the machine will create this output every single","speaker":null,"is_sponsor":0},{"start_s":157.379,"end_s":163.2,"text":"time because it's a computer but that's actually not true because these art","speaker":null,"is_sponsor":0},{"start_s":160.44,"end_s":167.7,"text":"generators they output multiple different iterations every time you hit","speaker":null,"is_sponsor":0},{"start_s":165.54,"end_s":171.599,"text":"enter right so even with the same text prompt you probably won't get this exact","speaker":null,"is_sponsor":0},{"start_s":169.14,"end_s":175.26,"text":"piece ever again so in that sense it still has that ephemeral quality of it","speaker":null,"is_sponsor":0},{"start_s":173.519,"end_s":180.54,"text":"and that fuzziness that making it art see I would argue","speaker":null,"is_sponsor":0},{"start_s":178.319,"end_s":187.2,"text":"that's a good point thank you but I would argue that art has to have","speaker":null,"is_sponsor":0},{"start_s":184.08,"end_s":190.08,"text":"some sort of intentionality behind it","speaker":null,"is_sponsor":0},{"start_s":187.2,"end_s":195.72,"text":"because if it wasn't intended to be produced in a certain way then","speaker":null,"is_sponsor":0},{"start_s":192.959,"end_s":199.379,"text":"it may evoke feelings in it in the viewer or in in the ex person","speaker":null,"is_sponsor":0},{"start_s":197.4,"end_s":204.06,"text":"experiencing it you know whether it's whether it's an image or music or","speaker":null,"is_sponsor":0},{"start_s":201.06,"end_s":206.879,"text":"whatever it may evoke certain feelings","speaker":null,"is_sponsor":0},{"start_s":204.06,"end_s":209.64,"text":"but you go and watch it you go and look at a beautiful mountain and you feel","speaker":null,"is_sponsor":0},{"start_s":208.44,"end_s":214.019,"text":"something that doesn't make the mountain art so you're saying that uh so there's","speaker":null,"is_sponsor":0},{"start_s":212.7,"end_s":219.0,"text":"an intentionality of the person creating the prompt this is a collaborative collaborative effort between the person","speaker":null,"is_sponsor":0},{"start_s":216.9,"end_s":222.18,"text":"at the keyboard and the AI yes and the person at the keyboard has an intention","speaker":null,"is_sponsor":0},{"start_s":220.319,"end_s":226.26,"text":"of what they want that's why they they create the string that they do in the","speaker":null,"is_sponsor":0},{"start_s":223.56,"end_s":230.94,"text":"way that they create it however there is a distance there where I just have to","speaker":null,"is_sponsor":0},{"start_s":228.959,"end_s":234.599,"text":"roll the dice and see what the AI is going to Output right it just gives you","speaker":null,"is_sponsor":0},{"start_s":232.86,"end_s":238.739,"text":"a random like uh here's a few things yeah and so I don't I don't control that","speaker":null,"is_sponsor":0},{"start_s":236.94,"end_s":242.58,"text":"I can try to approximate it with my words but but then with the so then the","speaker":null,"is_sponsor":0},{"start_s":241.14,"end_s":245.879,"text":"the thing actually doing the generation of the art the AI it doesn't have","speaker":null,"is_sponsor":0},{"start_s":244.2,"end_s":248.94,"text":"intentionality well it's intention is to try to closely you know produce","speaker":null,"is_sponsor":0},{"start_s":247.799,"end_s":254.22,"text":"something that matches what you've said but it doesn't have a it's not trying to make a statement you know it doesn't so","speaker":null,"is_sponsor":0},{"start_s":253.019,"end_s":261.12,"text":"this collaborative effort the intentionality is kind of severed so exactly that's why I think it's not art","speaker":null,"is_sponsor":0},{"start_s":258.299,"end_s":264.9,"text":"yeah I feel like you need to have well so I I think the the thing that just","speaker":null,"is_sponsor":0},{"start_s":263.16,"end_s":268.68,"text":"popped in my head was like I Choose Your Own Adventure story","speaker":null,"is_sponsor":0},{"start_s":266.58,"end_s":274.02,"text":"or like a multiple choice test let's go let's Choose Your Own Adventure uh an","speaker":null,"is_sponsor":0},{"start_s":271.139,"end_s":278.16,"text":"author has written out a number of possible branching paths for a story to","speaker":null,"is_sponsor":0},{"start_s":276.479,"end_s":281.1,"text":"take and as you're reading this choose your own I'm thinking about the books","speaker":null,"is_sponsor":0},{"start_s":280.02,"end_s":287.639,"text":"but like that's not really a thing anymore maybe it is let's say it's a Netflix it's a Netflix uh just keep it","speaker":null,"is_sponsor":0},{"start_s":285.36,"end_s":292.5,"text":"as books sure it's one of these books that used to exist","speaker":null,"is_sponsor":0},{"start_s":289.62,"end_s":295.919,"text":"um and if you you by reading through the book and then being like hmm these are","speaker":null,"is_sponsor":0},{"start_s":294.479,"end_s":301.919,"text":"the options presented to me by this person that actually generated something","speaker":null,"is_sponsor":0},{"start_s":297.479,"end_s":303.84,"text":"and I'm gonna choose this one and","speaker":null,"is_sponsor":0},{"start_s":301.919,"end_s":309.72,"text":"okay now you're going along this path but that doesn't mean that you generated","speaker":null,"is_sponsor":0},{"start_s":305.88,"end_s":311.699,"text":"that story you just put in an input","speaker":null,"is_sponsor":0},{"start_s":309.72,"end_s":316.259,"text":"you're putting in some inputs to some system the system is generating right","speaker":null,"is_sponsor":0},{"start_s":313.86,"end_s":322.44,"text":"but so this system just has Myriad just in just infinitely more inputs and even","speaker":null,"is_sponsor":0},{"start_s":318.84,"end_s":324.3,"text":"more problematically uh the system is","speaker":null,"is_sponsor":0},{"start_s":322.44,"end_s":328.199,"text":"based on work that was actually originally created by real human artists","speaker":null,"is_sponsor":0},{"start_s":326.94,"end_s":334.08,"text":"well this is a really interesting part of it yeah so it's like","speaker":null,"is_sponsor":0},{"start_s":331.919,"end_s":338.82,"text":"I you know I don't want to say like I'm not trying to be here being like this","speaker":null,"is_sponsor":0},{"start_s":335.58,"end_s":340.139,"text":"new technology that is you know uh I'm","speaker":null,"is_sponsor":0},{"start_s":338.82,"end_s":343.44,"text":"not trying to hate on like new technology just because it's new but I","speaker":null,"is_sponsor":0},{"start_s":342.12,"end_s":347.039,"text":"think that like while it is exciting and while it is a","speaker":null,"is_sponsor":0},{"start_s":345.72,"end_s":351.0,"text":"very interesting technology that we should explore I think that right now","speaker":null,"is_sponsor":0},{"start_s":348.84,"end_s":354.06,"text":"it's kind of like the wild west where there isn't any regulation people are","speaker":null,"is_sponsor":0},{"start_s":352.979,"end_s":358.38,"text":"still asking these questions we're having a talk like right now talking","speaker":null,"is_sponsor":0},{"start_s":355.979,"end_s":361.8,"text":"about it uh so we need to have these conversations and then like break it","speaker":null,"is_sponsor":0},{"start_s":360.479,"end_s":367.68,"text":"down into what does this mean for copyright what does this mean for the","speaker":null,"is_sponsor":0},{"start_s":364.8,"end_s":370.86,"text":"future of artistry as like a career or even competitions or even competitions","speaker":null,"is_sponsor":0},{"start_s":369.479,"end_s":375.0,"text":"like do you have to film yourself for creating the art now and submit that as","speaker":null,"is_sponsor":0},{"start_s":373.199,"end_s":379.979,"text":"well as your competition which is what package which is what one person on a on","speaker":null,"is_sponsor":0},{"start_s":376.979,"end_s":383.039,"text":"a Reddit thread suggested in in response","speaker":null,"is_sponsor":0},{"start_s":379.979,"end_s":385.8,"text":"to this fact that this guy like won this","speaker":null,"is_sponsor":0},{"start_s":383.039,"end_s":389.819,"text":"art competition using AI art and the key detail is that he did not","speaker":null,"is_sponsor":0},{"start_s":387.72,"end_s":393.6,"text":"it's the the details seem a little murky right now but at least","speaker":null,"is_sponsor":0},{"start_s":391.44,"end_s":397.979,"text":"some of the judges have said that they didn't know it was AI art and he has","speaker":null,"is_sponsor":0},{"start_s":396.06,"end_s":401.759,"text":"said himself that he's like oh what I needed to let them know that was in the","speaker":null,"is_sponsor":0},{"start_s":400.259,"end_s":405.0,"text":"vice article I believe at the at the bottom","speaker":null,"is_sponsor":0},{"start_s":403.5,"end_s":410.36,"text":"um I mean I don't know anything about this person's intentions but it's pretty obvious that there wasn't the spirit of","speaker":null,"is_sponsor":0},{"start_s":408.24,"end_s":414.96,"text":"the competition exactly exactly I mean I can understand","speaker":null,"is_sponsor":0},{"start_s":413.46,"end_s":421.56,"text":"this is almost like a form of performance art like it's a stunt exactly exactly I can understand him","speaker":null,"is_sponsor":0},{"start_s":418.979,"end_s":426.12,"text":"saying you know okay I'm gonna I'm gonna I want to bring attention to this yeah I","speaker":null,"is_sponsor":0},{"start_s":423.78,"end_s":430.979,"text":"want to show what this tool mid-journey can do so I'm going to stealthily enter","speaker":null,"is_sponsor":0},{"start_s":428.28,"end_s":436.74,"text":"uh with my AI art and then when I win I'm gonna be like haha look at this I","speaker":null,"is_sponsor":0},{"start_s":434.52,"end_s":439.62,"text":"this is actually a i I are now I've started a conversation and now we're","speaker":null,"is_sponsor":0},{"start_s":438.0,"end_s":443.34,"text":"talking about this but then I think what he should have done is","speaker":null,"is_sponsor":0},{"start_s":441.84,"end_s":446.58,"text":"be like okay but I didn't actually win your surprise money yeah yeah because","speaker":null,"is_sponsor":0},{"start_s":445.38,"end_s":452.46,"text":"now you have these people who actually created Art losing and they're like","speaker":null,"is_sponsor":0},{"start_s":450.06,"end_s":456.9,"text":"I think that makes it way crappier that makes it way stinkier of a situation","speaker":null,"is_sponsor":0},{"start_s":455.16,"end_s":460.5,"text":"because it's a stinky stinky because there are people who are outraged and","speaker":null,"is_sponsor":0},{"start_s":458.28,"end_s":463.38,"text":"they're and they're disappointed that the world's going this way and they're","speaker":null,"is_sponsor":0},{"start_s":461.88,"end_s":469.139,"text":"worried about the future and what this means for artists around the world and the volume of art that will be created","speaker":null,"is_sponsor":0},{"start_s":466.319,"end_s":475.319,"text":"by humans going forward and it's kind of dystopian but it that that dystopian","speaker":null,"is_sponsor":0},{"start_s":472.919,"end_s":478.38,"text":"Viewpoint is greatly enhanced by people being crappy like this exactly what do","speaker":null,"is_sponsor":0},{"start_s":477.479,"end_s":481.919,"text":"you mean this is valid just like everyone else like yeah no dude I think","speaker":null,"is_sponsor":0},{"start_s":480.96,"end_s":486.12,"text":"that like they're they're it happened there's","speaker":null,"is_sponsor":0},{"start_s":484.08,"end_s":491.24,"text":"always this pushback against hard backlash right when something cool","speaker":null,"is_sponsor":0},{"start_s":488.28,"end_s":495.0,"text":"happens like say blockchain technology and people are like okay cool we're","speaker":null,"is_sponsor":0},{"start_s":493.74,"end_s":500.58,"text":"building this technology in the early days it's like oh this enter the scammers enter the scammers and the pump","speaker":null,"is_sponsor":0},{"start_s":498.419,"end_s":504.24,"text":"and dumpers and now the whole they're you know there's all these scams out","speaker":null,"is_sponsor":0},{"start_s":502.44,"end_s":507.9,"text":"there and there's a huge backlash of being like cryptocurrency is evil and","speaker":null,"is_sponsor":0},{"start_s":506.34,"end_s":510.84,"text":"bad and it should never be used and it can only be used for as it's pump enough","speaker":null,"is_sponsor":0},{"start_s":509.4,"end_s":514.2,"text":"stuff and then you have people being like okay wait but remember in the early","speaker":null,"is_sponsor":0},{"start_s":512.88,"end_s":517.86,"text":"days there was this promise and we could use it for that still but the well is","speaker":null,"is_sponsor":0},{"start_s":516.12,"end_s":520.44,"text":"poisoned yeah and I think that's happening a little bit with air right","speaker":null,"is_sponsor":0},{"start_s":519.24,"end_s":524.7,"text":"it's going to be a way different outcome though because the AI art is just it's","speaker":null,"is_sponsor":0},{"start_s":523.14,"end_s":528.42,"text":"much it's simpler it's more straightforward the future is here now","speaker":null,"is_sponsor":0},{"start_s":526.32,"end_s":533.399,"text":"deal with it now you know what I mean like uh all graphic artists","speaker":null,"is_sponsor":0},{"start_s":531.3,"end_s":538.44,"text":"you're in trouble right within the next two years uh stock imagery sites you're","speaker":null,"is_sponsor":0},{"start_s":536.64,"end_s":542.7,"text":"in trouble yeah this is going to upend Industries and change laws for sure you","speaker":null,"is_sponsor":0},{"start_s":540.54,"end_s":547.38,"text":"know and and it's and it's moving super rapidly like this technology at the","speaker":null,"is_sponsor":0},{"start_s":545.399,"end_s":552.6,"text":"beginning of this year was super super rudimentary and it wasn't available and","speaker":null,"is_sponsor":0},{"start_s":549.42,"end_s":554.279,"text":"then open AI released Dolly too uh","speaker":null,"is_sponsor":0},{"start_s":552.6,"end_s":557.76,"text":"Google released their thing that I forget what it's called think Imogen I","speaker":null,"is_sponsor":0},{"start_s":555.72,"end_s":562.56,"text":"think it's called and now you go and there's lists of like the 10 coolest uh","speaker":null,"is_sponsor":0},{"start_s":560.94,"end_s":567.18,"text":"era well it's getting even crazier because Dolly had some built-in kind of","speaker":null,"is_sponsor":0},{"start_s":565.14,"end_s":572.459,"text":"filters where you couldn't do you can't do a human's face right you can't you","speaker":null,"is_sponsor":0},{"start_s":569.64,"end_s":577.14,"text":"can't do pornography right uh whereas stability AI yeah stable diffusion yeah","speaker":null,"is_sponsor":0},{"start_s":575.399,"end_s":582.779,"text":"it is release open source it has some filters","speaker":null,"is_sponsor":0},{"start_s":579.779,"end_s":584.459,"text":"that are enabled by default to that's","speaker":null,"is_sponsor":0},{"start_s":582.779,"end_s":587.459,"text":"just so you don't type something in and get a result that's pornographic and","speaker":null,"is_sponsor":0},{"start_s":586.08,"end_s":591.42,"text":"you're like oh I didn't want that right but you can disable this filter","speaker":null,"is_sponsor":0},{"start_s":589.74,"end_s":595.38,"text":"and you can you can create celebrity likenesses you can make like I've seen a","speaker":null,"is_sponsor":0},{"start_s":593.459,"end_s":598.44,"text":"bunch of pictures of Charlize Theron's face I knew it was her there was no","speaker":null,"is_sponsor":0},{"start_s":597.0,"end_s":604.86,"text":"label saying it was Charlize Theron yeah I could tell it's her in multiple Styles and angles right uh and so it's","speaker":null,"is_sponsor":0},{"start_s":602.64,"end_s":610.32,"text":"what does this mean yeah exactly this is you can run this on your desktop GPU","speaker":null,"is_sponsor":0},{"start_s":608.16,"end_s":613.38,"text":"it's only supports NVIDIA gpus right now but I don't have to rely on a cloud","speaker":null,"is_sponsor":0},{"start_s":611.88,"end_s":617.1,"text":"service for this yeah I mean like when deep fakes first came out people were","speaker":null,"is_sponsor":0},{"start_s":615.6,"end_s":620.82,"text":"like oh my gosh people are using their gpus to like run these computations and","speaker":null,"is_sponsor":0},{"start_s":618.899,"end_s":624.36,"text":"do it at home and that was one thing because if you didn't really have access","speaker":null,"is_sponsor":0},{"start_s":622.38,"end_s":628.8,"text":"to the hardware to like run those simulations over and over uh or run","speaker":null,"is_sponsor":0},{"start_s":626.94,"end_s":632.459,"text":"those computations then you wouldn't be able to make deep fakes but now all of","speaker":null,"is_sponsor":0},{"start_s":630.48,"end_s":636.3,"text":"these air generators are on the web you can just go to a URL and put in a prompt","speaker":null,"is_sponsor":0},{"start_s":634.38,"end_s":639.899,"text":"and get images and so this is a TechCrunch article talking about what we","speaker":null,"is_sponsor":0},{"start_s":638.279,"end_s":645.42,"text":"were the the generator we were just mentioning stable diffusion","speaker":null,"is_sponsor":0},{"start_s":642.3,"end_s":648.48,"text":"um I think it's it's in a program called","speaker":null,"is_sponsor":0},{"start_s":645.42,"end_s":650.94,"text":"dream AI or something I forget what it's","speaker":null,"is_sponsor":0},{"start_s":648.48,"end_s":656.519,"text":"called Uh but you know people are using it to make porn of existing people and","speaker":null,"is_sponsor":0},{"start_s":654.66,"end_s":660.839,"text":"upload it to 4chan lovely site it's and it's just images","speaker":null,"is_sponsor":0},{"start_s":659.04,"end_s":664.44,"text":"for Now what's the difference with defects this is just images for now not","speaker":null,"is_sponsor":0},{"start_s":662.579,"end_s":668.579,"text":"video but it'll be video within two or three for sure for sure I mean yeah like","speaker":null,"is_sponsor":0},{"start_s":666.24,"end_s":672.0,"text":"there's there's deep fake videos and yeah that I'm sure there will be","speaker":null,"is_sponsor":0},{"start_s":670.019,"end_s":676.32,"text":"generators uh quite soon like have you watched like that really low quality","speaker":null,"is_sponsor":0},{"start_s":673.88,"end_s":680.7,"text":"animated children's content on YouTube like not to throw a little baby bum","speaker":null,"is_sponsor":0},{"start_s":678.899,"end_s":685.5,"text":"under the bus but little baby bum is just it's nursery rhyme songs with just","speaker":null,"is_sponsor":0},{"start_s":683.04,"end_s":689.16,"text":"like pretty bad animation a lot of 3D animation along with it and kids love it","speaker":null,"is_sponsor":0},{"start_s":687.12,"end_s":692.16,"text":"my kid watched it for a year and a half straight every day all day like just","speaker":null,"is_sponsor":0},{"start_s":690.959,"end_s":699.0,"text":"love it um in the future you could potentially just play the song and just have the","speaker":null,"is_sponsor":0},{"start_s":696.48,"end_s":702.0,"text":"animation generated and just put that onto your YouTube channel even less work","speaker":null,"is_sponsor":0},{"start_s":700.68,"end_s":705.959,"text":"and you can monetize that YouTube channel and get rich very easily yeah I","speaker":null,"is_sponsor":0},{"start_s":704.339,"end_s":711.0,"text":"don't doubt that that that is the future I mean uh that's video stuff uh and we","speaker":null,"is_sponsor":0},{"start_s":709.44,"end_s":714.959,"text":"have to watch out for that coming but I mean yeah the still images are being","speaker":null,"is_sponsor":0},{"start_s":712.5,"end_s":719.339,"text":"used right now this is an Atlantic article from earlier this month I love","speaker":null,"is_sponsor":0},{"start_s":717.42,"end_s":724.26,"text":"the Atlantic I I do as well you subscribe no no you should uh but I when","speaker":null,"is_sponsor":0},{"start_s":722.76,"end_s":730.14,"text":"people send a link and it's an Atlantic link I'm like okay I'm out of taste","speaker":null,"is_sponsor":0},{"start_s":727.62,"end_s":734.04,"text":"anyway what's in the article um this uh you know it's a it's a regular article","speaker":null,"is_sponsor":0},{"start_s":731.76,"end_s":738.18,"text":"no AI was uh involved in the creation of the words but that's a that's a","speaker":null,"is_sponsor":0},{"start_s":735.36,"end_s":741.959,"text":"mid-journey created image uh it says the prompt was Alex Jones inside an American","speaker":null,"is_sponsor":0},{"start_s":740.1,"end_s":745.8,"text":"office under fluorescent lights that's the perfect use for that yeah and there","speaker":null,"is_sponsor":0},{"start_s":743.519,"end_s":749.399,"text":"goes the graphic designer's job right so that is something that would be","speaker":null,"is_sponsor":0},{"start_s":747.42,"end_s":754.38,"text":"traditionally I mean yeah this is like a perfect example like it's real world","speaker":null,"is_sponsor":0},{"start_s":750.899,"end_s":756.12,"text":"this is a lost gig I think graphic","speaker":null,"is_sponsor":0},{"start_s":754.38,"end_s":759.6,"text":"designers will continue to exist and I think they will use these tools you know","speaker":null,"is_sponsor":0},{"start_s":757.92,"end_s":762.18,"text":"when you're specking out a job you're probably going to go all right well","speaker":null,"is_sponsor":0},{"start_s":760.92,"end_s":766.2,"text":"here's five different things that I created in the last 10 minutes","speaker":null,"is_sponsor":0},{"start_s":764.459,"end_s":769.68,"text":"um using one of these tools right uh which one of you like right you like","speaker":null,"is_sponsor":0},{"start_s":768.06,"end_s":772.62,"text":"this one okay now I'll go and make a better version of that exactly because a","speaker":null,"is_sponsor":0},{"start_s":771.48,"end_s":776.16,"text":"lot of these things when you zoom in they're actually not that nice so you","speaker":null,"is_sponsor":0},{"start_s":774.72,"end_s":782.04,"text":"might not use it for like your corporate logo or something like that although there are Services which use AI to","speaker":null,"is_sponsor":0},{"start_s":780.36,"end_s":786.0,"text":"generate logos you put in like your company name some details about you your","speaker":null,"is_sponsor":0},{"start_s":783.72,"end_s":791.22,"text":"industry uh style them you maybe want and they will create AI created logo for","speaker":null,"is_sponsor":0},{"start_s":789.66,"end_s":795.18,"text":"you and I'm sure like there are options and then I'm sure you can yeah depending","speaker":null,"is_sponsor":0},{"start_s":792.839,"end_s":798.3,"text":"on that AI like who has the copyright because with Dali Dali retains the","speaker":null,"is_sponsor":0},{"start_s":797.16,"end_s":804.36,"text":"copyright to the images that you generate right which is weird kind of","speaker":null,"is_sponsor":0},{"start_s":801.06,"end_s":805.86,"text":"dolly dolly retains yeah it does yeah","speaker":null,"is_sponsor":0},{"start_s":804.36,"end_s":808.68,"text":"not you see but that's the thing is that like","speaker":null,"is_sponsor":0},{"start_s":807.54,"end_s":813.54,"text":"should they have copyright at all because what is Dolly trained on they're trained on all of these other artists","speaker":null,"is_sponsor":0},{"start_s":812.16,"end_s":818.88,"text":"that initially created the work the whole internet like it's just a general web scrape of paid content like","speaker":null,"is_sponsor":0},{"start_s":817.2,"end_s":822.24,"text":"shutterstocking you need to have a subscription and then they just take","speaker":null,"is_sponsor":0},{"start_s":820.5,"end_s":826.139,"text":"those billions of things and monetize it while putting Shutterstock out of","speaker":null,"is_sponsor":0},{"start_s":823.74,"end_s":830.279,"text":"business oh my God that's totally not fair I think in the future it could be","speaker":null,"is_sponsor":0},{"start_s":827.399,"end_s":834.54,"text":"possible that anyone who wants to uh create one of these models using a","speaker":null,"is_sponsor":0},{"start_s":832.38,"end_s":840.12,"text":"corpus of imagery will have to license all that imagery to feed the model but","speaker":null,"is_sponsor":0},{"start_s":837.6,"end_s":844.44,"text":"like how do you enforce that yeah I mean we need regulation which is","speaker":null,"is_sponsor":0},{"start_s":842.76,"end_s":847.86,"text":"it which is kind of it's funny because this is like on The","speaker":null,"is_sponsor":0},{"start_s":846.3,"end_s":853.019,"text":"Cutting Edge of what's going on right now and to even think about","speaker":null,"is_sponsor":0},{"start_s":850.86,"end_s":858.74,"text":"to even think about how long it'll be before a bunch of old people in you know","speaker":null,"is_sponsor":0},{"start_s":856.2,"end_s":862.86,"text":"the US Congress or senate or elsewhere uh start to like become familiar with","speaker":null,"is_sponsor":0},{"start_s":861.36,"end_s":866.339,"text":"this as a phenomenon and then craft legislation around it it's gonna be a","speaker":null,"is_sponsor":0},{"start_s":864.66,"end_s":870.36,"text":"while yeah it's not gonna happen and well it could happen it'll just be a","speaker":null,"is_sponsor":0},{"start_s":868.2,"end_s":876.06,"text":"couple years yeah it's gonna be a rocky road there's other legal aspects as well","speaker":null,"is_sponsor":0},{"start_s":871.86,"end_s":878.22,"text":"like you can create a artwork of a","speaker":null,"is_sponsor":0},{"start_s":876.06,"end_s":883.98,"text":"celebrity space you could sell a painting of Morgan Freeman and could I","speaker":null,"is_sponsor":0},{"start_s":881.76,"end_s":887.04,"text":"yes but it's kind of like fair use it's a gray you have to make like an argument","speaker":null,"is_sponsor":0},{"start_s":885.36,"end_s":892.38,"text":"for it a little bit so for example if you if you created a work where the the","speaker":null,"is_sponsor":0},{"start_s":890.399,"end_s":896.16,"text":"work was completely just like like a photo like look like a photo of Morgan","speaker":null,"is_sponsor":0},{"start_s":893.82,"end_s":899.459,"text":"Freeman then uh you probably have to get the permission to sell that but if you","speaker":null,"is_sponsor":0},{"start_s":897.6,"end_s":903.36,"text":"created a work like an Andy Warhol style where you've the work isn't just that","speaker":null,"is_sponsor":0},{"start_s":902.04,"end_s":909.959,"text":"it's his photo it's not just his likeness that makes the work cool it's that you stylized it right and it came","speaker":null,"is_sponsor":0},{"start_s":907.56,"end_s":913.74,"text":"from raw materials like paint uh then you don't even need to get this person's","speaker":null,"is_sponsor":0},{"start_s":911.76,"end_s":916.86,"text":"permission especially if it's just a one-off like you're you're making","speaker":null,"is_sponsor":0},{"start_s":915.3,"end_s":921.54,"text":"caricatures or something on the street on Vegas like rather than making this","speaker":null,"is_sponsor":0},{"start_s":919.8,"end_s":925.079,"text":"one RP so I'm gonna make a bazillion up and sell them all right if you if you","speaker":null,"is_sponsor":0},{"start_s":923.399,"end_s":928.5,"text":"were doing that with a picture of Morgan Freeman's face you'd probably run into","speaker":null,"is_sponsor":0},{"start_s":926.76,"end_s":933.06,"text":"some sort of yeah it's similar to fair use in that one of the pillars of it is","speaker":null,"is_sponsor":0},{"start_s":930.48,"end_s":937.199,"text":"does it materially impact that person's ability to monetize their likeness right","speaker":null,"is_sponsor":0},{"start_s":935.519,"end_s":940.26,"text":"right right right if you make one painting of Morgan Freeman and sell it","speaker":null,"is_sponsor":0},{"start_s":938.88,"end_s":944.04,"text":"to one person I mean depending on how expensive it is","speaker":null,"is_sponsor":0},{"start_s":942.18,"end_s":949.56,"text":"maybe Morgan Freeman would want would be like hey wait it's a question because","speaker":null,"is_sponsor":0},{"start_s":946.019,"end_s":952.019,"text":"now you've got this thing that can","speaker":null,"is_sponsor":0},{"start_s":949.56,"end_s":956.76,"text":"create many thousands of images of Morgan Freeman right but it's only","speaker":null,"is_sponsor":0},{"start_s":953.699,"end_s":958.56,"text":"creating them you made one and sold it","speaker":null,"is_sponsor":0},{"start_s":956.76,"end_s":961.199,"text":"and that it was inconsequential yeah because Riley just sold one so Morgan","speaker":null,"is_sponsor":0},{"start_s":959.88,"end_s":966.0,"text":"Freeman's not gonna sell no one's no Morgan Freeman's not gonna sue you yeah no one's paying millions of dollars of","speaker":null,"is_sponsor":0},{"start_s":964.079,"end_s":969.42,"text":"art for my art but what if millions of individuals each make their own Morgan","speaker":null,"is_sponsor":0},{"start_s":967.5,"end_s":972.42,"text":"Freeman thing so it does materially impact his ability to monetize his","speaker":null,"is_sponsor":0},{"start_s":970.8,"end_s":977.339,"text":"likeness right but there's no individual to attack as each individual only sold","speaker":null,"is_sponsor":0},{"start_s":974.04,"end_s":978.839,"text":"at once so do you attack the open source","speaker":null,"is_sponsor":0},{"start_s":977.339,"end_s":986.04,"text":"well honestly that's kind of the question we're we're faced with here because because these AI generators are","speaker":null,"is_sponsor":0},{"start_s":984.0,"end_s":989.699,"text":"mass producing now now that a million people millions of people have access to","speaker":null,"is_sponsor":0},{"start_s":988.139,"end_s":993.66,"text":"these online they sign up for the wait list there's there's not even like the","speaker":null,"is_sponsor":0},{"start_s":991.98,"end_s":996.899,"text":"like the big ones the really good ones you have to sign up like Dolly you had","speaker":null,"is_sponsor":0},{"start_s":995.22,"end_s":1001.519,"text":"to register for and wait until you get access stable diffusion well same thing","speaker":null,"is_sponsor":0},{"start_s":1000.139,"end_s":1006.32,"text":"but they publicly released it now stable yeah it's publicly released there are","speaker":null,"is_sponsor":0},{"start_s":1003.44,"end_s":1009.98,"text":"there's there's tens of these dozens of these more uh online that you can just","speaker":null,"is_sponsor":0},{"start_s":1008.48,"end_s":1014.0,"text":"go to a URL and put it in you don't need to wait at all so now there are millions","speaker":null,"is_sponsor":0},{"start_s":1011.899,"end_s":1019.519,"text":"of people potentially using these are art generators to generate","speaker":null,"is_sponsor":0},{"start_s":1016.519,"end_s":1022.04,"text":"countless works of art based on whatever","speaker":null,"is_sponsor":0},{"start_s":1019.519,"end_s":1025.1,"text":"yeah original art pieces by human people yeah that's the other thing because","speaker":null,"is_sponsor":0},{"start_s":1023.6,"end_s":1029.959,"text":"they're not coming from raw material yeah it's not like your paint on the canvas the materials are coming from","speaker":null,"is_sponsor":0},{"start_s":1027.98,"end_s":1034.459,"text":"these other presumably copyrighted oftentimes I just had a I just I just","speaker":null,"is_sponsor":0},{"start_s":1032.0,"end_s":1038.6,"text":"had a conversation with with David uh prior to this about","speaker":null,"is_sponsor":0},{"start_s":1036.079,"end_s":1043.339,"text":"uh you know whether this is like plagiarism or not and I'm like well okay","speaker":null,"is_sponsor":0},{"start_s":1040.76,"end_s":1048.919,"text":"so it's not plagiarism because you're using these people's art as sort of like","speaker":null,"is_sponsor":0},{"start_s":1045.319,"end_s":1051.08,"text":"a training tool for AI to generate","speaker":null,"is_sponsor":0},{"start_s":1048.919,"end_s":1054.98,"text":"something new right so like that's if that's if plagiarism is just copying it","speaker":null,"is_sponsor":0},{"start_s":1053.66,"end_s":1059.419,"text":"you know that's on one end of the spectrum and on the other side maybe is","speaker":null,"is_sponsor":0},{"start_s":1057.26,"end_s":1064.039,"text":"you know looking at it from the frame of when you paint you're using materials","speaker":null,"is_sponsor":0},{"start_s":1062.539,"end_s":1069.38,"text":"that you didn't make from scratch you know you're buying these this existing","speaker":null,"is_sponsor":0},{"start_s":1065.96,"end_s":1071.12,"text":"pigment and uh you know making something","speaker":null,"is_sponsor":0},{"start_s":1069.38,"end_s":1074.419,"text":"completely new from it but you didn't make it completely from scratch there's","speaker":null,"is_sponsor":0},{"start_s":1072.74,"end_s":1078.38,"text":"other people's work going into that as well so like that's on the other end of","speaker":null,"is_sponsor":0},{"start_s":1076.16,"end_s":1082.58,"text":"the spectrum and AI art is kind of somewhere in the middle but","speaker":null,"is_sponsor":0},{"start_s":1080.36,"end_s":1086.48,"text":"I'm inclined to put it a little bit more towards plagiarism it's not plagiarism","speaker":null,"is_sponsor":0},{"start_s":1084.559,"end_s":1091.52,"text":"well it's all arbitrary it all comes down to the abilities of the entity you","speaker":null,"is_sponsor":0},{"start_s":1089.36,"end_s":1097.4,"text":"know it's not plagiarism if I do a perfect replica of a um uh starry night","speaker":null,"is_sponsor":0},{"start_s":1094.82,"end_s":1101.96,"text":"because yeah obviously I was influenced by the original work and then I had to","speaker":null,"is_sponsor":0},{"start_s":1099.26,"end_s":1105.44,"text":"do all this analog very high skill work to like mix the paint correctly right","speaker":null,"is_sponsor":0},{"start_s":1103.52,"end_s":1110.78,"text":"and years of skill for me to actually render it yeah yeah but all that stuff","speaker":null,"is_sponsor":0},{"start_s":1108.679,"end_s":1115.22,"text":"is as trivial to a machine right so it's just it's only because the","speaker":null,"is_sponsor":0},{"start_s":1113.66,"end_s":1120.14,"text":"entity in question the machine is better at doing it than you are but that's but","speaker":null,"is_sponsor":0},{"start_s":1116.96,"end_s":1123.44,"text":"like I guess that's the","speaker":null,"is_sponsor":0},{"start_s":1120.14,"end_s":1126.679,"text":"that's the question is there value in a","speaker":null,"is_sponsor":0},{"start_s":1123.44,"end_s":1129.26,"text":"machine learning to do this skill should","speaker":null,"is_sponsor":0},{"start_s":1126.679,"end_s":1134.78,"text":"we like because it's not an agent it's not a conscious agent I mean according","speaker":null,"is_sponsor":0},{"start_s":1131.66,"end_s":1137.12,"text":"to not according to boys when you use","speaker":null,"is_sponsor":0},{"start_s":1134.78,"end_s":1141.26,"text":"mid mid Journey you're interacting with a bot it's not like you're on a Google","speaker":null,"is_sponsor":0},{"start_s":1139.16,"end_s":1145.1,"text":"local page with a search bar you're in Discord and you're interacting with the","speaker":null,"is_sponsor":0},{"start_s":1143.48,"end_s":1148.94,"text":"bot you type the prompt you want it returns an image and then you can say","speaker":null,"is_sponsor":0},{"start_s":1146.72,"end_s":1151.7,"text":"make more of them or change it in this way and it's like","speaker":null,"is_sponsor":0},{"start_s":1150.679,"end_s":1156.02,"text":"you're having a conversation with an artist in a way and you're collaborating you're kind of collaborating but that's","speaker":null,"is_sponsor":0},{"start_s":1154.039,"end_s":1161.539,"text":"just an artifice that's not the bot is just a a a a window into using the","speaker":null,"is_sponsor":0},{"start_s":1159.5,"end_s":1166.58,"text":"service available on yeah for sure for now soon it'll be Scarlett Johansson","speaker":null,"is_sponsor":0},{"start_s":1162.98,"end_s":1167.84,"text":"soon they'll add actual like AI chat bot","speaker":null,"is_sponsor":0},{"start_s":1166.58,"end_s":1172.64,"text":"functionality in there and then you're talking to it'll be very weird through","speaker":null,"is_sponsor":0},{"start_s":1170.24,"end_s":1178.1,"text":"the AI yes and they're like okay so when you say a bird flying over a ship do you","speaker":null,"is_sponsor":0},{"start_s":1176.0,"end_s":1181.36,"text":"mean like a big ship or like a little ship like this is the AI talking to you","speaker":null,"is_sponsor":0},{"start_s":1179.96,"end_s":1186.14,"text":"about it yeah and then make that by voice if we like","speaker":null,"is_sponsor":0},{"start_s":1183.86,"end_s":1190.28,"text":"combine these Technologies yes because that's even scarier like it's one thing","speaker":null,"is_sponsor":0},{"start_s":1187.76,"end_s":1194.98,"text":"to say all right I work in a I work in an auto Factory a car factory and","speaker":null,"is_sponsor":0},{"start_s":1193.039,"end_s":1199.28,"text":"they're replacing my you know job screwing in these rivets with a with a","speaker":null,"is_sponsor":0},{"start_s":1197.539,"end_s":1203.84,"text":"robot robotic ARM that's one thing another thing is saying okay you have","speaker":null,"is_sponsor":0},{"start_s":1201.919,"end_s":1208.94,"text":"this creative career you thought you were safe from the AI for a while but","speaker":null,"is_sponsor":0},{"start_s":1206.299,"end_s":1215.48,"text":"now literally your entire job like consultation uh sample work for for","speaker":null,"is_sponsor":0},{"start_s":1212.84,"end_s":1219.14,"text":"inspiration or whatever uh you know any other type of parameters that you would","speaker":null,"is_sponsor":0},{"start_s":1216.86,"end_s":1223.039,"text":"discuss with a person ahead of time you can do with AI because we have this","speaker":null,"is_sponsor":0},{"start_s":1220.82,"end_s":1227.6,"text":"language AIS and then we also have these art generating AIS yeah so even if me","speaker":null,"is_sponsor":0},{"start_s":1225.5,"end_s":1230.9,"text":"even if AI doesn't achieve this like General sentience that we're that that","speaker":null,"is_sponsor":0},{"start_s":1229.58,"end_s":1235.46,"text":"is like far in the future with Singularity et cetera Etc even if we","speaker":null,"is_sponsor":0},{"start_s":1233.059,"end_s":1240.14,"text":"don't achieve that it's like we're functionally going to achieve","speaker":null,"is_sponsor":0},{"start_s":1237.559,"end_s":1244.1,"text":"something very similar to it because of all these other systems that are coming","speaker":null,"is_sponsor":0},{"start_s":1241.4,"end_s":1248.6,"text":"together yeah scary well it begs the question like what happens to artists so","speaker":null,"is_sponsor":0},{"start_s":1245.48,"end_s":1250.4,"text":"does it mean that you've got it I think","speaker":null,"is_sponsor":0},{"start_s":1248.6,"end_s":1254.179,"text":"it look it'll stratify it like it'll make uh it'll make it more disparate","speaker":null,"is_sponsor":0},{"start_s":1252.38,"end_s":1258.2,"text":"like you'll have billionaires and impoverished people uh so to speak","speaker":null,"is_sponsor":0},{"start_s":1255.98,"end_s":1261.44,"text":"you'll you'll have the artists or graphic designers who are only using","speaker":null,"is_sponsor":0},{"start_s":1259.52,"end_s":1266.12,"text":"these tools and you'll have the like the very high level highly skilled artists","speaker":null,"is_sponsor":0},{"start_s":1265.28,"end_s":1272.66,"text":"um but the I mean this I guess it's good to be one","speaker":null,"is_sponsor":0},{"start_s":1269.6,"end_s":1275.059,"text":"of them but they'll be few they'll be so","speaker":null,"is_sponsor":0},{"start_s":1272.66,"end_s":1279.2,"text":"few of them right yeah well uh you know as this uh this is was a reply in the","speaker":null,"is_sponsor":0},{"start_s":1277.28,"end_s":1284.78,"text":"original tweet where someone kind of like whistled blue on this guy uh","speaker":null,"is_sponsor":0},{"start_s":1281.66,"end_s":1286.4,"text":"bragging about his his achievement uh","speaker":null,"is_sponsor":0},{"start_s":1284.78,"end_s":1289.94,"text":"Omni Morpho on Twitter says we're watching the death of artistry unfold","speaker":null,"is_sponsor":0},{"start_s":1287.84,"end_s":1292.88,"text":"right before our eyes um even high skilled jobs you know","speaker":null,"is_sponsor":0},{"start_s":1291.679,"end_s":1298.64,"text":"you're saying oh there will be some high skilled artists but like even those guys I mean maybe they'll be like a handful","speaker":null,"is_sponsor":0},{"start_s":1296.299,"end_s":1304.159,"text":"you know like literally the thing you have to think about though is the","speaker":null,"is_sponsor":0},{"start_s":1299.72,"end_s":1307.4,"text":"convergence or the homogenization of of","speaker":null,"is_sponsor":0},{"start_s":1304.159,"end_s":1310.34,"text":"art because right now all of these","speaker":null,"is_sponsor":0},{"start_s":1307.4,"end_s":1314.48,"text":"generators are using a data set that is Virgin that is created by humans all the","speaker":null,"is_sponsor":0},{"start_s":1312.44,"end_s":1318.74,"text":"all the info that's feeding them was photographs taken by humans art pieces","speaker":null,"is_sponsor":0},{"start_s":1316.52,"end_s":1323.419,"text":"drawn by humans but now that millions of pieces are coming out as output from","speaker":null,"is_sponsor":0},{"start_s":1321.2,"end_s":1329.299,"text":"these generators that means the internet at large is is growing in its proportion","speaker":null,"is_sponsor":0},{"start_s":1326.6,"end_s":1332.72,"text":"of stuff that was made by robots right and so if that continues to expand to","speaker":null,"is_sponsor":0},{"start_s":1331.52,"end_s":1338.72,"text":"the point where like half the stuff of the internet was made by robots yeah then when the next the next AI is","speaker":null,"is_sponsor":0},{"start_s":1336.32,"end_s":1344.059,"text":"programmed and fed into it is outputs from robots it'll become more and more","speaker":null,"is_sponsor":0},{"start_s":1341.419,"end_s":1347.9,"text":"like it's self-referential yeah this is this was Horst I was talking to him","speaker":null,"is_sponsor":0},{"start_s":1345.62,"end_s":1353.299,"text":"before as well and he specifically asked me to bring this up like he he likened","speaker":null,"is_sponsor":0},{"start_s":1350.36,"end_s":1357.52,"text":"it to re-encoding videos the more that you re-encode the same video file the","speaker":null,"is_sponsor":0},{"start_s":1355.159,"end_s":1362.179,"text":"more the quality to grades so it's like eventually are these AI art generators","speaker":null,"is_sponsor":0},{"start_s":1360.62,"end_s":1367.82,"text":"just going to be you know feeding off themselves again and again and again until it's just like a blurry mess uh so","speaker":null,"is_sponsor":0},{"start_s":1366.26,"end_s":1372.74,"text":"I guess I don't think that I think I mean like stylistically like to me I","speaker":null,"is_sponsor":0},{"start_s":1369.919,"end_s":1375.74,"text":"liken it as um I this is a pet Theory I guess it won't it won't exactly sorry it","speaker":null,"is_sponsor":0},{"start_s":1374.12,"end_s":1380.24,"text":"won't like yeah it won't be the same as like the resolution is worse but maybe","speaker":null,"is_sponsor":0},{"start_s":1378.5,"end_s":1384.08,"text":"it would be like um Hollywood taking over the world and all film is just like","speaker":null,"is_sponsor":0},{"start_s":1381.98,"end_s":1387.5,"text":"every movie has to be like an MCU movie or everyone has to do their makeup like","speaker":null,"is_sponsor":0},{"start_s":1385.82,"end_s":1390.559,"text":"Kim Kardashian because we all now we all use Instagram and we all look at that","speaker":null,"is_sponsor":0},{"start_s":1388.88,"end_s":1397.039,"text":"one celebrity and we all want that face yeah so then all the dado will just make","speaker":null,"is_sponsor":0},{"start_s":1393.08,"end_s":1399.02,"text":"this kind of art so therefore maybe the","speaker":null,"is_sponsor":0},{"start_s":1397.039,"end_s":1402.08,"text":"last remaining highly skilled artists will be the wackiest artists who are","speaker":null,"is_sponsor":0},{"start_s":1400.58,"end_s":1406.34,"text":"making the most original kind of stuff because it just looks so different from","speaker":null,"is_sponsor":0},{"start_s":1404.48,"end_s":1413.48,"text":"what is generated from the AI you know what it might actually happen is uh","speaker":null,"is_sponsor":0},{"start_s":1409.179,"end_s":1414.86,"text":"carsonization car Carson as I answer","speaker":null,"is_sponsor":0},{"start_s":1413.48,"end_s":1420.44,"text":"nope carsonization","speaker":null,"is_sponsor":0},{"start_s":1417.5,"end_s":1425.72,"text":"what is it it's the phenomenon of uh the the phenomenon wherein uh organisms","speaker":null,"is_sponsor":0},{"start_s":1423.34,"end_s":1429.51,"text":"multiple branches of organisms on evolutionary Pathways uh all","speaker":null,"is_sponsor":0},{"start_s":1428.059,"end_s":1433.25,"text":"become crabs","speaker":null,"is_sponsor":0},{"start_s":1433.46,"end_s":1438.559,"text":"like we're going back to crab animals","speaker":null,"is_sponsor":0},{"start_s":1436.52,"end_s":1441.679,"text":"keep evolving into crabs and scientists well this one says scientists don't know","speaker":null,"is_sponsor":0},{"start_s":1440.36,"end_s":1445.94,"text":"why but they do know why it's because it's like a advantageous that's the word","speaker":null,"is_sponsor":0},{"start_s":1443.84,"end_s":1449.72,"text":"in some way um so maybe like you know we'll have the","speaker":null,"is_sponsor":0},{"start_s":1447.919,"end_s":1454.039,"text":"equivalent of uh of everything going back to crab all AIS","speaker":null,"is_sponsor":0},{"start_s":1452.179,"end_s":1457.36,"text":"eventually all AI music generators eventually create crab raid","speaker":null,"is_sponsor":0},{"start_s":1461.78,"end_s":1468.38,"text":"oh speaking of which we didn't even I mean real quick uh this isn't like","speaker":null,"is_sponsor":0},{"start_s":1465.919,"end_s":1473.419,"text":"entirely a new phenomenon they've been doing this with with music for some time","speaker":null,"is_sponsor":0},{"start_s":1470.179,"end_s":1475.94,"text":"now uh in that they feed in music to an","speaker":null,"is_sponsor":0},{"start_s":1473.419,"end_s":1480.62,"text":"AI it generates like Melodies and rhythms and stuff and in some cases it","speaker":null,"is_sponsor":0},{"start_s":1478.4,"end_s":1483.799,"text":"generates the audio directly but most of the time it doesn't sound very good so","speaker":null,"is_sponsor":0},{"start_s":1482.419,"end_s":1487.4,"text":"what they'll do instead is they'll feed music into like they'll say we want a","speaker":null,"is_sponsor":0},{"start_s":1485.539,"end_s":1491.6,"text":"Jimi Hendrix Style song they'll feed a million Jimi Hendrix songs to an AI and","speaker":null,"is_sponsor":0},{"start_s":1489.559,"end_s":1495.679,"text":"it'll make midi data or like sheet music and then the humans will recreate it","speaker":null,"is_sponsor":0},{"start_s":1493.58,"end_s":1498.919,"text":"with like and in some cases they make like it right writes lyrics and","speaker":null,"is_sponsor":0},{"start_s":1497.299,"end_s":1502.28,"text":"everything as well but then humans will do other people share my opinion that","speaker":null,"is_sponsor":0},{"start_s":1500.78,"end_s":1506.12,"text":"I'm less bothered by this I think this is less bothersome and the reason is","speaker":null,"is_sponsor":0},{"start_s":1504.02,"end_s":1511.58,"text":"popular music can't get any worse exactly I I think that I think that","speaker":null,"is_sponsor":0},{"start_s":1508.76,"end_s":1514.159,"text":"music is I mean that's a whole nother discussion I feel like we probably","speaker":null,"is_sponsor":0},{"start_s":1512.84,"end_s":1520.58,"text":"shouldn't get into it no it doesn't bother me that much but I will say that","speaker":null,"is_sponsor":0},{"start_s":1516.02,"end_s":1523.46,"text":"like you know it seems like with music","speaker":null,"is_sponsor":0},{"start_s":1520.58,"end_s":1527.36,"text":"human generated art will human generated music will always be more important to","speaker":null,"is_sponsor":0},{"start_s":1525.679,"end_s":1530.36,"text":"people I don't think like I think because I think part of that is like","speaker":null,"is_sponsor":0},{"start_s":1528.919,"end_s":1533.779,"text":"sort of the personality the cult of personality around like an artist if you","speaker":null,"is_sponsor":0},{"start_s":1532.039,"end_s":1537.74,"text":"like like their music you're gonna be like wow I kind of want to listen to","speaker":null,"is_sponsor":0},{"start_s":1535.46,"end_s":1540.5,"text":"more of their music if it's an AI ai's gonna have to generate some very","speaker":null,"is_sponsor":0},{"start_s":1538.88,"end_s":1545.9,"text":"personal histories in the lyrics yeah like are people gonna go to","speaker":null,"is_sponsor":0},{"start_s":1543.38,"end_s":1549.08,"text":"a concert no because the music live music is already differentiated from","speaker":null,"is_sponsor":0},{"start_s":1547.4,"end_s":1554.299,"text":"recorded music you go to see live music you go you go to see the phenomenon of","speaker":null,"is_sponsor":0},{"start_s":1551.419,"end_s":1557.96,"text":"this well but then in in the in the age of ADM","speaker":null,"is_sponsor":0},{"start_s":1555.62,"end_s":1561.799,"text":"people that you don't go there to see that you're not going there to do","speaker":null,"is_sponsor":0},{"start_s":1559.159,"end_s":1566.12,"text":"performance sure but but I mean like you know more people are going to a show by","speaker":null,"is_sponsor":0},{"start_s":1564.38,"end_s":1570.559,"text":"I don't even know what the big EDM guy is now but like a few years ago maybe it","speaker":null,"is_sponsor":0},{"start_s":1568.46,"end_s":1575.179,"text":"was dead mouse like people go to the show because it's oh it's it's that guy","speaker":null,"is_sponsor":0},{"start_s":1572.24,"end_s":1579.14,"text":"that I like and not because the music is particularly really good it's because","speaker":null,"is_sponsor":0},{"start_s":1577.159,"end_s":1581.96,"text":"you liked a few of their music their tracks and so now like you have this","speaker":null,"is_sponsor":0},{"start_s":1580.52,"end_s":1585.2,"text":"idea in their head in your head yeah we're not gonna do that for AI no no","speaker":null,"is_sponsor":0},{"start_s":1583.76,"end_s":1590.299,"text":"one's dreaming for art like no one's going or maybe it will I mean V tubers","speaker":null,"is_sponsor":0},{"start_s":1587.0,"end_s":1592.279,"text":"are a thing uh Miku Miku from uh","speaker":null,"is_sponsor":0},{"start_s":1590.299,"end_s":1596.36,"text":"Vocaloid or whatever there's these like you know virtual Idols in Japan and","speaker":null,"is_sponsor":0},{"start_s":1594.559,"end_s":1603.38,"text":"whatnot they go on stage as a hologram they're dancing people are like I'm I'm","speaker":null,"is_sponsor":0},{"start_s":1598.82,"end_s":1605.12,"text":"a fan of this Idol person oh and if","speaker":null,"is_sponsor":0},{"start_s":1603.38,"end_s":1608.96,"text":"there was just an AI but at the same but at the end of the day if you really","speaker":null,"is_sponsor":0},{"start_s":1606.74,"end_s":1612.08,"text":"wanted like a distinct sound there would have to be some sort of human input but","speaker":null,"is_sponsor":0},{"start_s":1610.46,"end_s":1615.679,"text":"that's not even true I'd take it back well actually because far in the future","speaker":null,"is_sponsor":0},{"start_s":1613.88,"end_s":1619.159,"text":"maybe there is like an AI that was like tuned with specific parameters and","speaker":null,"is_sponsor":0},{"start_s":1617.12,"end_s":1623.059,"text":"people were like I'm a fan or you just around us you randomize the parameters","speaker":null,"is_sponsor":0},{"start_s":1621.02,"end_s":1627.559,"text":"like they're part of uh stability diffusion is you can you can make","speaker":null,"is_sponsor":0},{"start_s":1625.7,"end_s":1630.86,"text":"derivative products with it yeah as long as the license gets passed down you can","speaker":null,"is_sponsor":0},{"start_s":1629.659,"end_s":1635.24,"text":"make derivative products and you can tune some parameters such that the art","speaker":null,"is_sponsor":0},{"start_s":1633.62,"end_s":1638.98,"text":"that it creates is more of a certain style for sure and there's there's","speaker":null,"is_sponsor":0},{"start_s":1636.799,"end_s":1643.82,"text":"Commercial Services that do that like sound full I just found this like right","speaker":null,"is_sponsor":0},{"start_s":1641.419,"end_s":1646.64,"text":"before we card reader yeah yeah there's a bunch of services like this but like","speaker":null,"is_sponsor":0},{"start_s":1645.26,"end_s":1651.799,"text":"sound full you know you start in there you you uh you know you you choose a","speaker":null,"is_sponsor":0},{"start_s":1649.64,"end_s":1655.58,"text":"genre you customize it you like choose a beat you choose some instruments they're","speaker":null,"is_sponsor":0},{"start_s":1653.48,"end_s":1659.12,"text":"all pre-recorded pre-done and then you can like you know put it together and","speaker":null,"is_sponsor":0},{"start_s":1657.2,"end_s":1663.44,"text":"make something like quote unquote new you could make like a Nine Inch Nails AI","speaker":null,"is_sponsor":0},{"start_s":1661.88,"end_s":1667.64,"text":"you're like you really loves this mode and this interval use these instruments","speaker":null,"is_sponsor":0},{"start_s":1666.08,"end_s":1671.6,"text":"yeah whatever it puts out will sound nailsy exactly exactly and the same","speaker":null,"is_sponsor":0},{"start_s":1669.919,"end_s":1676.46,"text":"thing can happen with visual art too oh man and if that's just randomized people","speaker":null,"is_sponsor":0},{"start_s":1673.76,"end_s":1681.14,"text":"could become fans of certain certain AIS that they really like their style right","speaker":null,"is_sponsor":0},{"start_s":1678.44,"end_s":1683.96,"text":"okay so last question and then we're done","speaker":null,"is_sponsor":0},{"start_s":1681.86,"end_s":1686.72,"text":"I know you really really hate this James you want to go I gotta get out of here","speaker":null,"is_sponsor":0},{"start_s":1686.059,"end_s":1693.74,"text":"um what do you think should be the situation what should we head","speaker":null,"is_sponsor":0},{"start_s":1691.159,"end_s":1699.26,"text":"towards as a society when it comes to like AI generated art should should we","speaker":null,"is_sponsor":0},{"start_s":1696.32,"end_s":1704.48,"text":"respect AI generated art as like you know on a somewhat equal playing","speaker":null,"is_sponsor":0},{"start_s":1701.48,"end_s":1706.279,"text":"field or should it be like it should it","speaker":null,"is_sponsor":0},{"start_s":1704.48,"end_s":1711.82,"text":"be as as um denormalized or de-specialized as you","speaker":null,"is_sponsor":0},{"start_s":1709.88,"end_s":1717.62,"text":"know I don't know some some some some commodity that you can like Mass produce","speaker":null,"is_sponsor":0},{"start_s":1714.26,"end_s":1720.14,"text":"no problem I generally think uh like the","speaker":null,"is_sponsor":0},{"start_s":1717.62,"end_s":1723.32,"text":"technology is here so deal with it kind of approach like there's no we shouldn't","speaker":null,"is_sponsor":0},{"start_s":1721.94,"end_s":1726.98,"text":"be trying to stop this or slow it down we have to just adapt the toothpaste is","speaker":null,"is_sponsor":0},{"start_s":1725.539,"end_s":1730.88,"text":"out of the tube for a lot of this stuff in terms of they already made this AI","speaker":null,"is_sponsor":0},{"start_s":1729.38,"end_s":1734.84,"text":"they already scraped these copyrighted images sorry Getty","speaker":null,"is_sponsor":0},{"start_s":1733.22,"end_s":1737.72,"text":"um but in terms of how we conceptualize it how we think of","speaker":null,"is_sponsor":0},{"start_s":1736.7,"end_s":1742.46,"text":"it um I think that it is similar to VFX","speaker":null,"is_sponsor":0},{"start_s":1740.539,"end_s":1744.38,"text":"you watch a movie has great VFX you're like wow that was very enjoyable to","speaker":null,"is_sponsor":0},{"start_s":1743.539,"end_s":1750.32,"text":"watch or and then you watch another movie and you go yeah that wasn't that crazy but","speaker":null,"is_sponsor":0},{"start_s":1748.64,"end_s":1753.679,"text":"you know they did all the stunts that's real that was all practical they","speaker":null,"is_sponsor":0},{"start_s":1752.24,"end_s":1758.48,"text":"actually climbed that building he actually jumped from that train when you","speaker":null,"is_sponsor":0},{"start_s":1756.14,"end_s":1762.559,"text":"know that a human did it you give it this extra level like it gets it earns","speaker":null,"is_sponsor":0},{"start_s":1760.64,"end_s":1767.36,"text":"your respects in this other layer I think we're just gonna have to do with art hey that's a nice painting and wow a","speaker":null,"is_sponsor":0},{"start_s":1765.799,"end_s":1773.0,"text":"human did that from scratch that's amazing I don't see that that often oh","speaker":null,"is_sponsor":0},{"start_s":1770.419,"end_s":1776.179,"text":"you're gonna you think the the norm is going to be like AI art is ubiquitous","speaker":null,"is_sponsor":0},{"start_s":1774.799,"end_s":1780.5,"text":"and it's it's everything but then when there's something extra special yeah","speaker":null,"is_sponsor":0},{"start_s":1778.76,"end_s":1785.12,"text":"because this just this is like anything else this is democratizes Art more you","speaker":null,"is_sponsor":0},{"start_s":1783.44,"end_s":1789.44,"text":"know I I suck at drawing but now I can make this so I can it's like making","speaker":null,"is_sponsor":0},{"start_s":1787.159,"end_s":1793.039,"text":"music on your laptop so it's going to be everywhere it's going to take over I","speaker":null,"is_sponsor":0},{"start_s":1791.659,"end_s":1797.48,"text":"don't think it's like making music on your laptop because when because for","speaker":null,"is_sponsor":0},{"start_s":1796.039,"end_s":1801.5,"text":"that it's like okay somebody else recorded an instrument and gave you all","speaker":null,"is_sponsor":0},{"start_s":1799.64,"end_s":1805.159,"text":"this data that you can then manipulate using MIDI files everywhere you see","speaker":null,"is_sponsor":0},{"start_s":1803.179,"end_s":1808.82,"text":"stock photos today you're gonna see AI generated art when I make a Squarespace","speaker":null,"is_sponsor":0},{"start_s":1806.899,"end_s":1813.5,"text":"website I'm going to use original as original as a descriptive reality yes","speaker":null,"is_sponsor":0},{"start_s":1811.76,"end_s":1817.82,"text":"that's that's going to be true but I think I'm saying that uh you know from a","speaker":null,"is_sponsor":0},{"start_s":1816.38,"end_s":1822.14,"text":"normative framework it's not this is not the same as using","speaker":null,"is_sponsor":0},{"start_s":1821.24,"end_s":1827.779,"text":"like uh it's been a while since I did since I","speaker":null,"is_sponsor":0},{"start_s":1825.679,"end_s":1830.84,"text":"meddled in uh electronic music making I forget what the actual files are called","speaker":null,"is_sponsor":0},{"start_s":1828.98,"end_s":1834.98,"text":"but like the digital sounds you're using a digital sound of a trombone and you","speaker":null,"is_sponsor":0},{"start_s":1832.88,"end_s":1839.36,"text":"press a key and it makes the sound the trombone sound for that note","speaker":null,"is_sponsor":0},{"start_s":1837.559,"end_s":1843.919,"text":"that's completely different because you're still generating the data you're","speaker":null,"is_sponsor":0},{"start_s":1841.7,"end_s":1848.419,"text":"still doing it by hand right I think that with AI art it should be","speaker":null,"is_sponsor":0},{"start_s":1846.679,"end_s":1854.899,"text":"the case that if you are an artist and you want your","speaker":null,"is_sponsor":0},{"start_s":1852.2,"end_s":1858.62,"text":"art to be included in these models you can","speaker":null,"is_sponsor":0},{"start_s":1855.74,"end_s":1863.539,"text":"submit them to the database and there should be a requirement that they","speaker":null,"is_sponsor":0},{"start_s":1861.02,"end_s":1867.5,"text":"uh you know pay you royalties and I know that the copy like our","speaker":null,"is_sponsor":0},{"start_s":1865.159,"end_s":1871.94,"text":"copyright system has lots of problems it is not perfect and that like this is","speaker":null,"is_sponsor":0},{"start_s":1869.299,"end_s":1875.84,"text":"gonna go along with a much needed you know reform of how we deal with","speaker":null,"is_sponsor":0},{"start_s":1873.5,"end_s":1879.559,"text":"copyright in general in the west we might just get rid of it just go more","speaker":null,"is_sponsor":0},{"start_s":1877.76,"end_s":1884.12,"text":"China style it's like it's irrelevant now the pace of innovation is just so","speaker":null,"is_sponsor":0},{"start_s":1881.659,"end_s":1887.0,"text":"fast that it well I think that it's going to be it's going to be that way","speaker":null,"is_sponsor":0},{"start_s":1885.44,"end_s":1891.44,"text":"for a while as we're in the wild west here but I think that in a few years as","speaker":null,"is_sponsor":0},{"start_s":1889.94,"end_s":1896.899,"text":"this becomes more and more normalized there's going to be people asking for","speaker":null,"is_sponsor":0},{"start_s":1894.679,"end_s":1901.34,"text":"you know to save artists in some way because they don't make money already if","speaker":null,"is_sponsor":0},{"start_s":1899.12,"end_s":1904.88,"text":"this is going if this continues with no regulation","speaker":null,"is_sponsor":0},{"start_s":1902.779,"end_s":1909.32,"text":"artists are out of a job they're dead","speaker":null,"is_sponsor":0},{"start_s":1906.32,"end_s":1911.179,"text":"rip rip and rip to this episode because","speaker":null,"is_sponsor":0},{"start_s":1909.32,"end_s":1914.059,"text":"James I just like to give you your last word","speaker":null,"is_sponsor":0},{"start_s":1912.799,"end_s":1918.98,"text":"you're good you want the last word that's the last word it's rip","speaker":null,"is_sponsor":0},{"start_s":1916.46,"end_s":1924.26,"text":"you took it actually so that's your word my last word is thanks for watching talk","speaker":null,"is_sponsor":0},{"start_s":1922.58,"end_s":1928.88,"text":"link we'll we'll be back we can have these go too long rip Riley subscribe to","speaker":null,"is_sponsor":0},{"start_s":1926.539,"end_s":1932.419,"text":"techlinked subscribe to they're just movies","speaker":null,"is_sponsor":0},{"start_s":1931.039,"end_s":1935.38,"text":"see you later thank you for having me","speaker":null,"is_sponsor":0}],"full_text":"talk linked it's back with the number one co-host uh as voted by you the viewers of America I feel like I haven't been on talking in like two and a half years well that's because we haven't done it in like two and a half years all right let's get into it but then we started doing it and guess what we're talking about today James uh AI generated art see this is why I love you on talk linked you just want to cut right to the point yeah don't waste the beer's time information density let's go I just want to know how you're doing the reason we're here is because a news story just came out today about a synthetic media artist Jason Allen I think that actually came out yesterday but he won the Colorado State Fair Fine Arts competition in the Digital Arts category and good for him you know those judges got to catch up yeah uh wait why what do you mean because an AI generated his entry oh well that was the key that was the key detail that I hadn't gotten to yet yes the reason he won was because he isn't actually an artist at all arguably he used an AI called mid-journey and used a special prompt that he will be publishing quote unquote at a later date that's this whole process his uh 11 herbs of spices is that secret prompt right exactly what combination of text yielded this art piece yeah so so the whole story came about firstly because of this tweet that I'll click into um that someone was very upset about this but apparently um he goes by sincarnate on on Discord or whatever and he talked about his his win here and uh he's like hey that's so great look at this I I used a a personal project he's made using mid-journey and uh yeah people are upset about it James is AI art art first of all is it art and then we'll talk about whether you know you can take credit for it oh that's let's just start with the most philosophical and Abstract question like I guess the Crux of any anyone who squeamish to answer that with anything but a fast yes or no uh the that person was probably grappling with the question of does art need to be generated by humans really what it comes down to is it art uh in order to answer that question you have to you have to ask what is art well I think the thing with art is the fuzziness of it and when you're talking about a computer generating it it seems more like a computation this is an output it's deterministic the machine will create this output every single time because it's a computer but that's actually not true because these art generators they output multiple different iterations every time you hit enter right so even with the same text prompt you probably won't get this exact piece ever again so in that sense it still has that ephemeral quality of it and that fuzziness that making it art see I would argue that's a good point thank you but I would argue that art has to have some sort of intentionality behind it because if it wasn't intended to be produced in a certain way then it may evoke feelings in it in the viewer or in in the ex person experiencing it you know whether it's whether it's an image or music or whatever it may evoke certain feelings but you go and watch it you go and look at a beautiful mountain and you feel something that doesn't make the mountain art so you're saying that uh so there's an intentionality of the person creating the prompt this is a collaborative collaborative effort between the person at the keyboard and the AI yes and the person at the keyboard has an intention of what they want that's why they they create the string that they do in the way that they create it however there is a distance there where I just have to roll the dice and see what the AI is going to Output right it just gives you a random like uh here's a few things yeah and so I don't I don't control that I can try to approximate it with my words but but then with the so then the the thing actually doing the generation of the art the AI it doesn't have intentionality well it's intention is to try to closely you know produce something that matches what you've said but it doesn't have a it's not trying to make a statement you know it doesn't so this collaborative effort the intentionality is kind of severed so exactly that's why I think it's not art yeah I feel like you need to have well so I I think the the thing that just popped in my head was like I Choose Your Own Adventure story or like a multiple choice test let's go let's Choose Your Own Adventure uh an author has written out a number of possible branching paths for a story to take and as you're reading this choose your own I'm thinking about the books but like that's not really a thing anymore maybe it is let's say it's a Netflix it's a Netflix uh just keep it as books sure it's one of these books that used to exist um and if you you by reading through the book and then being like hmm these are the options presented to me by this person that actually generated something and I'm gonna choose this one and okay now you're going along this path but that doesn't mean that you generated that story you just put in an input you're putting in some inputs to some system the system is generating right but so this system just has Myriad just in just infinitely more inputs and even more problematically uh the system is based on work that was actually originally created by real human artists well this is a really interesting part of it yeah so it's like I you know I don't want to say like I'm not trying to be here being like this new technology that is you know uh I'm not trying to hate on like new technology just because it's new but I think that like while it is exciting and while it is a very interesting technology that we should explore I think that right now it's kind of like the wild west where there isn't any regulation people are still asking these questions we're having a talk like right now talking about it uh so we need to have these conversations and then like break it down into what does this mean for copyright what does this mean for the future of artistry as like a career or even competitions or even competitions like do you have to film yourself for creating the art now and submit that as well as your competition which is what package which is what one person on a on a Reddit thread suggested in in response to this fact that this guy like won this art competition using AI art and the key detail is that he did not it's the the details seem a little murky right now but at least some of the judges have said that they didn't know it was AI art and he has said himself that he's like oh what I needed to let them know that was in the vice article I believe at the at the bottom um I mean I don't know anything about this person's intentions but it's pretty obvious that there wasn't the spirit of the competition exactly exactly I mean I can understand this is almost like a form of performance art like it's a stunt exactly exactly I can understand him saying you know okay I'm gonna I'm gonna I want to bring attention to this yeah I want to show what this tool mid-journey can do so I'm going to stealthily enter uh with my AI art and then when I win I'm gonna be like haha look at this I this is actually a i I are now I've started a conversation and now we're talking about this but then I think what he should have done is be like okay but I didn't actually win your surprise money yeah yeah because now you have these people who actually created Art losing and they're like I think that makes it way crappier that makes it way stinkier of a situation because it's a stinky stinky because there are people who are outraged and they're and they're disappointed that the world's going this way and they're worried about the future and what this means for artists around the world and the volume of art that will be created by humans going forward and it's kind of dystopian but it that that dystopian Viewpoint is greatly enhanced by people being crappy like this exactly what do you mean this is valid just like everyone else like yeah no dude I think that like they're they're it happened there's always this pushback against hard backlash right when something cool happens like say blockchain technology and people are like okay cool we're building this technology in the early days it's like oh this enter the scammers enter the scammers and the pump and dumpers and now the whole they're you know there's all these scams out there and there's a huge backlash of being like cryptocurrency is evil and bad and it should never be used and it can only be used for as it's pump enough stuff and then you have people being like okay wait but remember in the early days there was this promise and we could use it for that still but the well is poisoned yeah and I think that's happening a little bit with air right it's going to be a way different outcome though because the AI art is just it's much it's simpler it's more straightforward the future is here now deal with it now you know what I mean like uh all graphic artists you're in trouble right within the next two years uh stock imagery sites you're in trouble yeah this is going to upend Industries and change laws for sure you know and and it's and it's moving super rapidly like this technology at the beginning of this year was super super rudimentary and it wasn't available and then open AI released Dolly too uh Google released their thing that I forget what it's called think Imogen I think it's called and now you go and there's lists of like the 10 coolest uh era well it's getting even crazier because Dolly had some built-in kind of filters where you couldn't do you can't do a human's face right you can't you can't do pornography right uh whereas stability AI yeah stable diffusion yeah it is release open source it has some filters that are enabled by default to that's just so you don't type something in and get a result that's pornographic and you're like oh I didn't want that right but you can disable this filter and you can you can create celebrity likenesses you can make like I've seen a bunch of pictures of Charlize Theron's face I knew it was her there was no label saying it was Charlize Theron yeah I could tell it's her in multiple Styles and angles right uh and so it's what does this mean yeah exactly this is you can run this on your desktop GPU it's only supports NVIDIA gpus right now but I don't have to rely on a cloud service for this yeah I mean like when deep fakes first came out people were like oh my gosh people are using their gpus to like run these computations and do it at home and that was one thing because if you didn't really have access to the hardware to like run those simulations over and over uh or run those computations then you wouldn't be able to make deep fakes but now all of these air generators are on the web you can just go to a URL and put in a prompt and get images and so this is a TechCrunch article talking about what we were the the generator we were just mentioning stable diffusion um I think it's it's in a program called dream AI or something I forget what it's called Uh but you know people are using it to make porn of existing people and upload it to 4chan lovely site it's and it's just images for Now what's the difference with defects this is just images for now not video but it'll be video within two or three for sure for sure I mean yeah like there's there's deep fake videos and yeah that I'm sure there will be generators uh quite soon like have you watched like that really low quality animated children's content on YouTube like not to throw a little baby bum under the bus but little baby bum is just it's nursery rhyme songs with just like pretty bad animation a lot of 3D animation along with it and kids love it my kid watched it for a year and a half straight every day all day like just love it um in the future you could potentially just play the song and just have the animation generated and just put that onto your YouTube channel even less work and you can monetize that YouTube channel and get rich very easily yeah I don't doubt that that that is the future I mean uh that's video stuff uh and we have to watch out for that coming but I mean yeah the still images are being used right now this is an Atlantic article from earlier this month I love the Atlantic I I do as well you subscribe no no you should uh but I when people send a link and it's an Atlantic link I'm like okay I'm out of taste anyway what's in the article um this uh you know it's a it's a regular article no AI was uh involved in the creation of the words but that's a that's a mid-journey created image uh it says the prompt was Alex Jones inside an American office under fluorescent lights that's the perfect use for that yeah and there goes the graphic designer's job right so that is something that would be traditionally I mean yeah this is like a perfect example like it's real world this is a lost gig I think graphic designers will continue to exist and I think they will use these tools you know when you're specking out a job you're probably going to go all right well here's five different things that I created in the last 10 minutes um using one of these tools right uh which one of you like right you like this one okay now I'll go and make a better version of that exactly because a lot of these things when you zoom in they're actually not that nice so you might not use it for like your corporate logo or something like that although there are Services which use AI to generate logos you put in like your company name some details about you your industry uh style them you maybe want and they will create AI created logo for you and I'm sure like there are options and then I'm sure you can yeah depending on that AI like who has the copyright because with Dali Dali retains the copyright to the images that you generate right which is weird kind of dolly dolly retains yeah it does yeah not you see but that's the thing is that like should they have copyright at all because what is Dolly trained on they're trained on all of these other artists that initially created the work the whole internet like it's just a general web scrape of paid content like shutterstocking you need to have a subscription and then they just take those billions of things and monetize it while putting Shutterstock out of business oh my God that's totally not fair I think in the future it could be possible that anyone who wants to uh create one of these models using a corpus of imagery will have to license all that imagery to feed the model but like how do you enforce that yeah I mean we need regulation which is it which is kind of it's funny because this is like on The Cutting Edge of what's going on right now and to even think about to even think about how long it'll be before a bunch of old people in you know the US Congress or senate or elsewhere uh start to like become familiar with this as a phenomenon and then craft legislation around it it's gonna be a while yeah it's not gonna happen and well it could happen it'll just be a couple years yeah it's gonna be a rocky road there's other legal aspects as well like you can create a artwork of a celebrity space you could sell a painting of Morgan Freeman and could I yes but it's kind of like fair use it's a gray you have to make like an argument for it a little bit so for example if you if you created a work where the the work was completely just like like a photo like look like a photo of Morgan Freeman then uh you probably have to get the permission to sell that but if you created a work like an Andy Warhol style where you've the work isn't just that it's his photo it's not just his likeness that makes the work cool it's that you stylized it right and it came from raw materials like paint uh then you don't even need to get this person's permission especially if it's just a one-off like you're you're making caricatures or something on the street on Vegas like rather than making this one RP so I'm gonna make a bazillion up and sell them all right if you if you were doing that with a picture of Morgan Freeman's face you'd probably run into some sort of yeah it's similar to fair use in that one of the pillars of it is does it materially impact that person's ability to monetize their likeness right right right right if you make one painting of Morgan Freeman and sell it to one person I mean depending on how expensive it is maybe Morgan Freeman would want would be like hey wait it's a question because now you've got this thing that can create many thousands of images of Morgan Freeman right but it's only creating them you made one and sold it and that it was inconsequential yeah because Riley just sold one so Morgan Freeman's not gonna sell no one's no Morgan Freeman's not gonna sue you yeah no one's paying millions of dollars of art for my art but what if millions of individuals each make their own Morgan Freeman thing so it does materially impact his ability to monetize his likeness right but there's no individual to attack as each individual only sold at once so do you attack the open source well honestly that's kind of the question we're we're faced with here because because these AI generators are mass producing now now that a million people millions of people have access to these online they sign up for the wait list there's there's not even like the like the big ones the really good ones you have to sign up like Dolly you had to register for and wait until you get access stable diffusion well same thing but they publicly released it now stable yeah it's publicly released there are there's there's tens of these dozens of these more uh online that you can just go to a URL and put it in you don't need to wait at all so now there are millions of people potentially using these are art generators to generate countless works of art based on whatever yeah original art pieces by human people yeah that's the other thing because they're not coming from raw material yeah it's not like your paint on the canvas the materials are coming from these other presumably copyrighted oftentimes I just had a I just I just had a conversation with with David uh prior to this about uh you know whether this is like plagiarism or not and I'm like well okay so it's not plagiarism because you're using these people's art as sort of like a training tool for AI to generate something new right so like that's if that's if plagiarism is just copying it you know that's on one end of the spectrum and on the other side maybe is you know looking at it from the frame of when you paint you're using materials that you didn't make from scratch you know you're buying these this existing pigment and uh you know making something completely new from it but you didn't make it completely from scratch there's other people's work going into that as well so like that's on the other end of the spectrum and AI art is kind of somewhere in the middle but I'm inclined to put it a little bit more towards plagiarism it's not plagiarism well it's all arbitrary it all comes down to the abilities of the entity you know it's not plagiarism if I do a perfect replica of a um uh starry night because yeah obviously I was influenced by the original work and then I had to do all this analog very high skill work to like mix the paint correctly right and years of skill for me to actually render it yeah yeah but all that stuff is as trivial to a machine right so it's just it's only because the entity in question the machine is better at doing it than you are but that's but like I guess that's the that's the question is there value in a machine learning to do this skill should we like because it's not an agent it's not a conscious agent I mean according to not according to boys when you use mid mid Journey you're interacting with a bot it's not like you're on a Google local page with a search bar you're in Discord and you're interacting with the bot you type the prompt you want it returns an image and then you can say make more of them or change it in this way and it's like you're having a conversation with an artist in a way and you're collaborating you're kind of collaborating but that's just an artifice that's not the bot is just a a a a window into using the service available on yeah for sure for now soon it'll be Scarlett Johansson soon they'll add actual like AI chat bot functionality in there and then you're talking to it'll be very weird through the AI yes and they're like okay so when you say a bird flying over a ship do you mean like a big ship or like a little ship like this is the AI talking to you about it yeah and then make that by voice if we like combine these Technologies yes because that's even scarier like it's one thing to say all right I work in a I work in an auto Factory a car factory and they're replacing my you know job screwing in these rivets with a with a robot robotic ARM that's one thing another thing is saying okay you have this creative career you thought you were safe from the AI for a while but now literally your entire job like consultation uh sample work for for inspiration or whatever uh you know any other type of parameters that you would discuss with a person ahead of time you can do with AI because we have this language AIS and then we also have these art generating AIS yeah so even if me even if AI doesn't achieve this like General sentience that we're that that is like far in the future with Singularity et cetera Etc even if we don't achieve that it's like we're functionally going to achieve something very similar to it because of all these other systems that are coming together yeah scary well it begs the question like what happens to artists so does it mean that you've got it I think it look it'll stratify it like it'll make uh it'll make it more disparate like you'll have billionaires and impoverished people uh so to speak you'll you'll have the artists or graphic designers who are only using these tools and you'll have the like the very high level highly skilled artists um but the I mean this I guess it's good to be one of them but they'll be few they'll be so few of them right yeah well uh you know as this uh this is was a reply in the original tweet where someone kind of like whistled blue on this guy uh bragging about his his achievement uh Omni Morpho on Twitter says we're watching the death of artistry unfold right before our eyes um even high skilled jobs you know you're saying oh there will be some high skilled artists but like even those guys I mean maybe they'll be like a handful you know like literally the thing you have to think about though is the convergence or the homogenization of of art because right now all of these generators are using a data set that is Virgin that is created by humans all the all the info that's feeding them was photographs taken by humans art pieces drawn by humans but now that millions of pieces are coming out as output from these generators that means the internet at large is is growing in its proportion of stuff that was made by robots right and so if that continues to expand to the point where like half the stuff of the internet was made by robots yeah then when the next the next AI is programmed and fed into it is outputs from robots it'll become more and more like it's self-referential yeah this is this was Horst I was talking to him before as well and he specifically asked me to bring this up like he he likened it to re-encoding videos the more that you re-encode the same video file the more the quality to grades so it's like eventually are these AI art generators just going to be you know feeding off themselves again and again and again until it's just like a blurry mess uh so I guess I don't think that I think I mean like stylistically like to me I liken it as um I this is a pet Theory I guess it won't it won't exactly sorry it won't like yeah it won't be the same as like the resolution is worse but maybe it would be like um Hollywood taking over the world and all film is just like every movie has to be like an MCU movie or everyone has to do their makeup like Kim Kardashian because we all now we all use Instagram and we all look at that one celebrity and we all want that face yeah so then all the dado will just make this kind of art so therefore maybe the last remaining highly skilled artists will be the wackiest artists who are making the most original kind of stuff because it just looks so different from what is generated from the AI you know what it might actually happen is uh carsonization car Carson as I answer nope carsonization what is it it's the phenomenon of uh the the phenomenon wherein uh organisms multiple branches of organisms on evolutionary Pathways uh all become crabs like we're going back to crab animals keep evolving into crabs and scientists well this one says scientists don't know why but they do know why it's because it's like a advantageous that's the word in some way um so maybe like you know we'll have the equivalent of uh of everything going back to crab all AIS eventually all AI music generators eventually create crab raid oh speaking of which we didn't even I mean real quick uh this isn't like entirely a new phenomenon they've been doing this with with music for some time now uh in that they feed in music to an AI it generates like Melodies and rhythms and stuff and in some cases it generates the audio directly but most of the time it doesn't sound very good so what they'll do instead is they'll feed music into like they'll say we want a Jimi Hendrix Style song they'll feed a million Jimi Hendrix songs to an AI and it'll make midi data or like sheet music and then the humans will recreate it with like and in some cases they make like it right writes lyrics and everything as well but then humans will do other people share my opinion that I'm less bothered by this I think this is less bothersome and the reason is popular music can't get any worse exactly I I think that I think that music is I mean that's a whole nother discussion I feel like we probably shouldn't get into it no it doesn't bother me that much but I will say that like you know it seems like with music human generated art will human generated music will always be more important to people I don't think like I think because I think part of that is like sort of the personality the cult of personality around like an artist if you like like their music you're gonna be like wow I kind of want to listen to more of their music if it's an AI ai's gonna have to generate some very personal histories in the lyrics yeah like are people gonna go to a concert no because the music live music is already differentiated from recorded music you go to see live music you go you go to see the phenomenon of this well but then in in the in the age of ADM people that you don't go there to see that you're not going there to do performance sure but but I mean like you know more people are going to a show by I don't even know what the big EDM guy is now but like a few years ago maybe it was dead mouse like people go to the show because it's oh it's it's that guy that I like and not because the music is particularly really good it's because you liked a few of their music their tracks and so now like you have this idea in their head in your head yeah we're not gonna do that for AI no no one's dreaming for art like no one's going or maybe it will I mean V tubers are a thing uh Miku Miku from uh Vocaloid or whatever there's these like you know virtual Idols in Japan and whatnot they go on stage as a hologram they're dancing people are like I'm I'm a fan of this Idol person oh and if there was just an AI but at the same but at the end of the day if you really wanted like a distinct sound there would have to be some sort of human input but that's not even true I'd take it back well actually because far in the future maybe there is like an AI that was like tuned with specific parameters and people were like I'm a fan or you just around us you randomize the parameters like they're part of uh stability diffusion is you can you can make derivative products with it yeah as long as the license gets passed down you can make derivative products and you can tune some parameters such that the art that it creates is more of a certain style for sure and there's there's Commercial Services that do that like sound full I just found this like right before we card reader yeah yeah there's a bunch of services like this but like sound full you know you start in there you you uh you know you you choose a genre you customize it you like choose a beat you choose some instruments they're all pre-recorded pre-done and then you can like you know put it together and make something like quote unquote new you could make like a Nine Inch Nails AI you're like you really loves this mode and this interval use these instruments yeah whatever it puts out will sound nailsy exactly exactly and the same thing can happen with visual art too oh man and if that's just randomized people could become fans of certain certain AIS that they really like their style right okay so last question and then we're done I know you really really hate this James you want to go I gotta get out of here um what do you think should be the situation what should we head towards as a society when it comes to like AI generated art should should we respect AI generated art as like you know on a somewhat equal playing field or should it be like it should it be as as um denormalized or de-specialized as you know I don't know some some some some commodity that you can like Mass produce no problem I generally think uh like the technology is here so deal with it kind of approach like there's no we shouldn't be trying to stop this or slow it down we have to just adapt the toothpaste is out of the tube for a lot of this stuff in terms of they already made this AI they already scraped these copyrighted images sorry Getty um but in terms of how we conceptualize it how we think of it um I think that it is similar to VFX you watch a movie has great VFX you're like wow that was very enjoyable to watch or and then you watch another movie and you go yeah that wasn't that crazy but you know they did all the stunts that's real that was all practical they actually climbed that building he actually jumped from that train when you know that a human did it you give it this extra level like it gets it earns your respects in this other layer I think we're just gonna have to do with art hey that's a nice painting and wow a human did that from scratch that's amazing I don't see that that often oh you're gonna you think the the norm is going to be like AI art is ubiquitous and it's it's everything but then when there's something extra special yeah because this just this is like anything else this is democratizes Art more you know I I suck at drawing but now I can make this so I can it's like making music on your laptop so it's going to be everywhere it's going to take over I don't think it's like making music on your laptop because when because for that it's like okay somebody else recorded an instrument and gave you all this data that you can then manipulate using MIDI files everywhere you see stock photos today you're gonna see AI generated art when I make a Squarespace website I'm going to use original as original as a descriptive reality yes that's that's going to be true but I think I'm saying that uh you know from a normative framework it's not this is not the same as using like uh it's been a while since I did since I meddled in uh electronic music making I forget what the actual files are called but like the digital sounds you're using a digital sound of a trombone and you press a key and it makes the sound the trombone sound for that note that's completely different because you're still generating the data you're still doing it by hand right I think that with AI art it should be the case that if you are an artist and you want your art to be included in these models you can submit them to the database and there should be a requirement that they uh you know pay you royalties and I know that the copy like our copyright system has lots of problems it is not perfect and that like this is gonna go along with a much needed you know reform of how we deal with copyright in general in the west we might just get rid of it just go more China style it's like it's irrelevant now the pace of innovation is just so fast that it well I think that it's going to be it's going to be that way for a while as we're in the wild west here but I think that in a few years as this becomes more and more normalized there's going to be people asking for you know to save artists in some way because they don't make money already if this is going if this continues with no regulation artists are out of a job they're dead rip rip and rip to this episode because James I just like to give you your last word you're good you want the last word that's the last word it's rip you took it actually so that's your word my last word is thanks for watching talk link we'll we'll be back we can have these go too long rip Riley subscribe to techlinked subscribe to they're just movies see you later thank you for having me"}