uh everyone's confused about the iPad except for me
the main problem with iPads is that they're dumb
that's what I think Mac Address guy Jonathan Horst
what do you I think you don't understand iPads okay it's quite interesting
because from what I gather your character on LTT is like has the iPad
guy you did all the videos where you used the iPad yeah as a computer okay I
I need to clarify that I don't think iPads are dumb but I think that Apple's
approach to iPads is like at the same
time cool and confusing and dumb does that make sense I think you're
wrong okay I but also you think that you think they've had a perfect approach no
no I know I think you're wrong but also right to give some context to this uh
this little argument that we're having uh Apple released the 10th gen iPad and
it's the you know they did the same thing where they updated with the kind
of like iPad pro-ish squared off Square
design images yeah uh while still you
know hampering its ability to be it's uh
this kind of cool new iPad OS powered
desktop capable capabilities device uh
which annoys me this is the other interesting thing I'm using the keyboard
dock the sorry the magic keyboard folio
whatever and you're using the regular
folder yeah folio because you think that the iPad should be and remain a touch
first first device device I made a whole video about it uh is one of of my
earliest videos here at Mac Address about how the Mac shouldn't have a touch
screen and the iPad has a touch screen and this is these are this is a good
line to to have I mean the added mouse support to uh the iPad but that's
because their their argument for not adding touch support to the Mac means
that that has to happen but oh right
because they said when the iPad or sorry when the MacBook Air came when they
redesigned in 2010 that was kind of when touch screens on laptops were a new
thing and they addressed it in the keynote they're like no one wants to reach their hands up
that's just not that's literally what they said well which makes a lot of
sense you know like I feel like I really loved when they added the touchpad
because the iPad is a you know laptop
sized screen it's a small laptop size screen uh in most models I mean the 12.9
inch that's a 13 inch laptop basically and and so when I was making my LTT
videos reviewing the iPad pros and all these like you know iterative changes
that they were making to iPad OS to make it more like a desktop operating system
that was it was that was that was exciting to me and I saw it when they
when they said when they added the touchpad I was like great this is this
makes sense yes no one wants to touch the screen that's true and so we need
the touchpad we need that mouse support we need that desktop those desktops because of just the just because this is
a touch versus device adding the keyboard to it there was a benefit to
not having the mouse that's what I'm saying but I don't usually I don't think
that the iPad needs a mouse okay so let's take a step back let's take a look
because because we have different you know maybe you've
been able to pick up on this viewer but we have different philosophies about
about what Apple has been and should be doing with their
products so so we have a situation where we have macOS uh it's a desktop
operating system and Windows was a desktop operating system they were both
yes desktop operations at one point
you know touch devices started showing up Apple released the iPad tablets were
a big thing and Windows decided Microsoft decided to take Windows in a
touch Direction they're like we're gonna we're gonna do Windows 8 and we're gonna
make all the icons big and make the
desktop situation worse and kind of force people into a touch touch you uh
how did that go interface it went horribly and everyone hated it and
everyone hated Windows 8 and they were like okay okay let's take a step back
they thought about it they released Windows 8.1 which kind of like rolled
back a lot of the like touch forcing touch uh uh features and then they
released Windows 10 what was Windows 10 Windows 10 was great it was a great
synthesis they made a mistake they took a step back they thought about it again
and they released Windows 10. everyone was happy for Windows 10 in terms of the
interface so they were there were still some like it there's still some things
that people didn't like about you know the data collection and all this stuff and they were like I don't think I don't
remember there being like performance issues but you know there's stuff with the release of any everything Windows 10
was the operating system they should have released with Windows 8 yes yeah so
Windows 10 was great there were touch Windows 10 devices there were two in
ones people could use it as a tablet or a computer or whatever but what did
Apple do I have hold on I have a question for you
did you ever use tablet mode in Windows 10. ever have you ever well I haven't
really thought I haven't really used a two-in-one for
any length of time I mean I think I maybe I've reviewed one or two at what
are we arguing then what do you mean I wait I have a laptop I have a surface
laptop with a touch screen I use it sometimes not all the time in the in the
in the positions I made you do no I don't hold it I don't hold it remember
the video oh right yeah yeah I was holding it we're gonna have to find that
video but um no I don't use it like like a touch first device but every once in a
while if I want to like zoom in on a picture or something so I actually
somehow cut the first little bit of the original
iPad introduction when Steve Jobs was saying like what is the iPad for and it
was like it needs to be better at these specific things and it was internet
browsing email video watching photo viewing
ebooks and music those are the things
that he listed out that iPad should be in it yeah so like really basic stuff
like the most like the the least you can do right and it was a lot about content
consumption and a lot of people were I guess confused with the iPad at the time
and a little kind of flummoxed about it because it felt like a big iPhone and
and when it was obstensively was though you could argue in terms of the history
of Apple the iPhone was a small iPad because that's actually how the ideas
went but anyway yes oh oh they they came they were working on they were working
on the iPad and then realized we should do these are great ideas that would work
on a phone and then pivoted to the phone and then did the and then came back to
the app that's interesting now those criticisms of the iPad in those
early days of it being consumption device are valid and in some cases still
are valid so the question was like well what could
you do with an iPad to make it more I guess productive
um and so Apple in the next year they released the iWork Suite which nobody
bought uh and then there was GarageBand and iMovie and they're really basic kind
of kitty versions of those apps but you could do stuff now on it and there's
some keyboard accessories and stuff like that still kind of still kind of
confused but uh since then the iPad has grown
profoundly in functionality it has and I
think that's really impressive and when I've been doing iPad videos and talking
to people uh normal people who use iPads they do integrate it into their lives in
really amazing ways and they're using it a lot and I think the biggest surprise
for me too is when I bought my first iPad which was an iPad 3.
um this is now like a decade ago I too
was a little skeptical about this consumption device like why would I need
this but I used it all the time it was like the most used computer when I was
at home and it's just because it's a it's a kid can walk around with it yeah
and can Lounge on the couch and use yeah if I use a laptop I Lounge on the couch
and use a laptop really bad for ergonomics right a lot of
stuff's like on my chest so so you're saying that the strength of the iPad is
in its difference from a laptop or a desktop yeah absolutely right that's the
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today okay now now here's where I'm
coming at it from okay so Apple has stated I forget when they stated this
but I think I think when they launched the original iPad they said something
like imagine a future where it's just or
maybe it was the iPad Pro they were like where there's there's a single piece of
glass and it's your it's the Hub it's like it's like you're so it's like a
Microsoft concept video this is this not an apple thing I
thought there was an apple thing where they said like this a single piece of glass for your computer or whatever
maybe I'll Google it but I'm not going to do that it sounds like a Microsoft
concept video from 2000 into three no way it's definitely anyway go on
um anyways so if if apple is like all right our our vision for the future of
computing is to have this like touch friendly glass like single pane of thing
that you can like do anything with you know it has advanced capabilities but
you don't need to use that all the time it it can be a simple device as well if
they want to do that then they need to
build out iPad OS uh into like more of a
capable desktop operating system which they've been doing and I think that like
this is what's so frustrating to me about this 10th gen iPad is because they
added all these cool things to the iPad pros and the iPad Air uh they've got now
finally support for external monitors that can like fill the whole screen and
act as a actual second display play instead of just dual duplicating it
there because I got to do the ShortCircuit for this 10th gen iPad but this
doesn't this one doesn't support page manager is only available to M1 and
above powered iPads okay um there was a lot of complaining about
that um and so there's it might they might have stayed manager to a 14 powered
iPads which would include this in the previous generation error however I
think in that case they're still going to limit it only to on the iPad screen
as opposed to external uh an external screen what and then no that they're
going to do that don't worry because stage manager on external screen not
that great really really not a fun experience why because in some apps you
grab the corner and it resizes some other apps it doesn't resize it's just
everything's so inconsistent particularly when you're using a mouse on the iPad
um even even with these accessories it's there's such inconsistency with the
mouse on an iPad uh that it's just really like which I remember remember as
being like one of the main things that was annoying when they added these like
when they added mouse support and external monitors instead support for
external displays because it's like
they put the headline like oh you can use the mouse on an iPad now oh you can
use external monitors and then you go to use it and you're like this is
possibly the dumbest way you could implement this it works until it doesn't
like even if you want to use this as like an actual just desktop device you
can't use it it kind of tricks you for a second because you have the keyboard and
you have the track so this is the second issue with the iPad okay so what I think
people fundamentally confuse is they look at the way the Mac works and they
think this is a really flexible operating system and it's really you know this is the way I want my operating
system to to be and then they assume that by putting that interface on an
iPad they're gonna get that but the problem with the iPad is is is a part of
a much greater story which is Apple's kind of the way Apple closed down iOS
both on iPhone and iPad which is the
whole epic versus Apple trial uh all it is Anti-Trust scrutiny
the iPad App Store distribution model I
think is cons killing the iPad it's constraining the iPad thank you out of
any any out of even discovering how to best use this form factor in this touch
interface exactly and so if you're saying you want to put macOS on an iPad
because really it's the district app distribution model then we need to deal
with app distribution not the interface wait
what I'm just enjoying the framing right now that's not what I'm saying I don't
want to put macOS on the iPad and I don't want to put iPod OS on the Mac I'm
just lamenting the fact that Apple felt the need to like develop both platforms
and kind of like cross pollinate some features from one onto the onto the
other like macOS has gotten some stuff
from iOS and iPad OS has done some stuff settings but the system settings in
Ventura is terrible right oh right yeah because the
the system settings in Ventura now looks like looks like the iPad settings it's
got this the sidebar thing going on right the stupidest thing I can't
believe that this is how I iOS works it's so crazy to me this is someone
who's got the worst part but it's it's not the worst part yeah whatever I just
mean um so they've done this thing where they've crossed pollinate features onto
both platforms but they have refused to
like take those to its natural conclusion like okay we're adding all
these like features from our touch operating system on the macOS but we're
not going to add touch and we're not even going to think about it and we're adding all these desktop features from
the desktop onto iOS to make this to the cross
at every time they've done that they should have those those ideas of
cross-pollination and and seeing that kind of happen a little bit I don't like
I know I want them divided the issue is
that the App Store is the only app distribution model on the iPad and it's
it means developers are just not going to invest their time into making the
iPad better they have no reason to adopt the stage manager stuff because most
people have one of these iPads okay so you you've identified you want to get
rid of the App Store do you think that if Apple gets rid of the App Store on
iPad OS that they can retain the amount the the kind
of control of the UI and the form factor
and all this stuff that they that they want to do yeah or do they go hand in
hand no no no no they don't go anywhere
well I mean my argument is if they didn't control the app
Distribution on the iPad so strenuously
yeah um the limitations of the iPad wouldn't I
don't think would feel as as but why well because developers would
be making more money invest in in in new app ideas uh because
right now like all the apps I have on my iPad are like free apps that I have to
like you know they're either free apps that are basically just other Windows of
websites or they're apps that are part of an app subscription model like
Microsoft Office right you know Adobe so
like this software as a service I is the result of this this difficulty in terms
of figuring out how to monetize apps on the on on a device like this and so that
that's the problem see to me as soon as you get rid of the App Store
and people can like side load apps and download them from the internet like
they do on anything no no no install
sorry I just I was saying that to differentiate from a stick of the word
side left sure I just mean if they were allowed to install apps from any Source
they want uh I think that that would necessarily
break the sort of like touch first Focus
that you like with the iPad no because because then developers would come in
here and they would fix all these problems that I'm complaining about no no no no the point is the usefulness of
the iPad is is not compromised by the
fact it's a touch first device the usefulness of the iPad is compromised by
the app distribution model that Apple's controlling I mean I agree with you
there yeah I just think that and I think that we'd have a better idea of what a
tablet is without that without I guess I'm just I
guess I'm just envisioning this future where we get rid of the App Store and I
think that and then that's the same iPad OS becomes a desktop because you know
like yeah no what does it happen well I
didn't want that to happen I do here's my dream here's my dream here's where
this all comes from okay my dream and it's like I don't know how actually
practical it it it is but since I kind
of got into Tech I feel like my dream has been to have this this this thing
that Apple the setup that Apple uh I think it's Apple we'll confirm that they
set up which is that you have a relatively simple device you can take it
to a desktop situation where you connect it to a keyboard and a mouse and
external monitors and peripherals and
you have all this stuff and then you can disconnect it from all that stuff and
take it away and use it as a as a tablet and maybe you even fold it up and use it
as a phone you know like I think that obviously all of these like they're
they're all these phone as computers experiments over the years the the motor
Motorola axon I think they made I think
it was Motorola it might have been a different company but they made something called the axon you could do
this there was I think there was a no key Windows Windows had Continuum which
was their whole like Windows feature where you could plug in a Windows phone
and use it as a as a computer and I was like this is super super cool for people
who are buying Chromebooks for people who are buying netbooks back in the day
like you don't need a ton of uh uh power
in your system and phones are super powerful now they can totally power this
stuff and iPads even more so with like M1 and M2 later wait is there an M2 iPad
there is yeah just kidding yeah yeah so it's like that's what I think we should
be heading towards I think that like a situation where you can you can buy the
the iPad for relatively cheap what's this one is 450. if this one supported
stage manager and external monitor support that was actually decent and not
like like the the crap ones that you're saying that it is on the on the on the
upper tier ones if you could buy an iPad for 450 and you're like you know what
there's a lot of power in here and I want to use it as my computer you you
spend okay the the keyboard full it was 250 that's insane but say you want to
use it as a computer you buy the keyboard folio oh say you want to you a
mouse you connect your mouse I say you need a dongle to connect to to monitors
and you just like add on things and it's modular and then you can build the setup
that you want instead of having Apple dictate to you that no if you buy this
iPad you cannot do these things that you
theoretically totally should be able to do but we're just not letting you do it
because you whoa that's talk like
this so this
future that you're you're thinking of where you have a single puck
yeah that can now change its screen size into many different screens I think it's
really a really neat idea thank you um I came up with it myself
quite think of phones powerful enough to really do that
really no to do like just general basic
browsing like like you do some you do I do it on my phone right now
not until once you get to desktop level I don't okay uh but uh there's gonna be
people eagerly commenting with that uh I disagree but you know yeah but what I'm
trying to say is like there's gonna be I guess compromises within that stack as
we've seen already when every every time somebody's tried to do it yeah
um and so that is a great feature to to strive towards and I I think that within
that feature you can still work out the ideas of what each screen size is Gonna
Act Like and stay focused within that and I don't
think that saying well they need to put a desktop operating
system on the iPad is
um really going to get you there when really we should be figuring out what is
this screen size with a touch screen and this this form factor how does this work
when I'm in this form factor and just refining that and then if we do get to
this one device dissolved day which I
mean I it's gonna happen but it would be great I feel like that's just like the
it has to happen at some point but maybe but maybe if we if we maybe don't get
there but I don't think I don't think shoehorning desktop stuff on an iPad's
gonna get us there but I do think you call it shoe Horning continue sorry I
think I do think like we we have can now
computers at different screen sizes all the time and they have just different
ways you interact with them because of literally the way you hold them
physically yeah and the physicality of it dictates how you use it and so being
focused with that physicality about like okay well when I'm on my phone I can I
need to be able to use it one-handed because it's a small you know the iPad is best used sitting
on a couch yeah you know a desktop computer is best used sitting at a desk
well you know the way you sit and the way you're
limbs are positioned yeah dictate then how that computer is going to be best
serve you so we should be humans should
should submit to the limits imposed by our own physiology yeah that's BS I want
a bionic arms let's go let's just get
some Deus Ex in here just kidding we are out of time and I really really
appreciate your perspective thank you so much for coming on and
thank you for watching uh subscribe to TechLinked I never say this why not but
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