wow talk length no way i forgot about that
sorry remember when we were going to bring it back oh
sorry tackling we're doing a tackling yes
um but we're remaining socially physically distant as you can see just
in case you're and socially i'm going to look at the camera i'm not actually acknowledging
you 91 inches
that's 231 centimeters oh yeah wow it's 2.3 meters
so we're we're properly distant but why are we here james you tell me because i
saw a game demo yesterday that blew my little mind and you wanted to talk about
it no i didn't think i was gonna be allowed are you a game developer no one
day though i think so so the reason we're
here is because yesterday epic games uh released a demo
of unreal engine 5 which is the fifth
version of unreal engine the name says it all
hey yeah and it was it was pretty mind-blowing but i have to say everyone
was talking about it being super super mind-blowing and i watched it i was kind of like well okay
it looks pretty good the rocks look good that's what david said yeah he said it's
not that much better than uncharted 4. i think i was expecting a little more like
i don't know transforming robots and they should have had the rock in it yes
the rock makes everything better looking at rocks so there's another reason why
it was kind of disappointing because uh jeff keeley
the kind of like godfather of the gaming industry i guess at this point he's
doing this whole thing called the summer game fest where they're doing all these
game reveals and they were like all right the first game reveal of the
summer game fest is going to happen on wednesday
tune in and then people tune in it's not even a game it's not even a
real game it's unreal engine but that doesn't does that count as a game reveal
no that's just a totally encapsulated demo yeah although it was running in
real time time and like you can interact with it but yeah there's no story
there's nothing there's probably nothing beyond what we saw there is a story the
the thing is called lumen in the land of nanite and i think maybe maybe the girl
was called lumen and those were all her nanite friends
yeah so it was apparently running in real time although we have no way of
actually proving that but the thing that was actually impressive
about this demo was the technology called nanite
and lumen and lumen but nanite's really the star of the show and nanite is a
technology that basically will allow developers to import
full detail models
from apps like zbrush or whatever if they went in and like created a statue
with like a million different a lot of triangles or or import an asset from
like a film library and they just like stick it right in the game and don't
have to do anything you don't need to make lods right level of detail things
usually in a game you have stuff really close to the screen really close to the
observer be high detail but you don't want to render stuff that
you can't see because that's a waste of energy and compute so when something
gets farther from the screen and it's small you have
more coarse and rough character models so lower polygon count rileys yes you
know you're pretty high def right now but if you were 40 feet away you might
as well just like lower the number of triangles down to like a six yeah a head
a chest yeah i get crushed into like just like a a play-doh ball yeah yeah
but and that's time consuming to make all those lods
now they don't have to it's very it's very they have to do it manually they
have to go through and kind of like take a bunch of polygons and like crunch it
down into like one polygon or something for like a you know a statue made of the
one they showed in the in the demo was made of 33 million triangles well the
one that they have in the demo is a cinema quality yes like so that one they
wouldn't even have imported the high the highest definition lod probably wouldn't
even have that many triangles right but in the demo they just import the cinema
quality ones right into the game boom and then nanite will dynamically
re-render and reduce the number of triangles depending on how much space
the object takes in the screen right and it was pretty impressive i mean like
looking at that statue if you were looking at it on a high resolution
screen it was like okay i can see why they're saying this is
photorealistic because it didn't i mean that could have you could have told me
if you just took a still frame of the statue and you were like this is a photo
i'd be i'd be like well the other part of it i have no reason to think you're
lying you're actually just looking at a high triangle count model you're not
looking at because normally they'll make a character model that'll be lower
poly count and then they'll wrap it with a texture map like a normal map right
that makes it look higher texture they like take these details that are actual
geometrical details and kind of like flatten it out into a texture so it
looks like a bunch of detail but really it's just a flat polygon yeah it's just like a flat like quilt that
wraps around an object and then it knows based on the observer's position what it
should reflect back of them or how it should appear and then it can give the illusion of depth to things but now
they're not even gonna have to you're not even gonna have to make normal maps or light maps right you can just
look at the object so neither of us are game developers but
what this is actually supposed to do or what it promises to do is to a make
everything a lot more detailed because you got so many triangles did you see
the little the part in the video where they're like okay here's we're actually
looking at how many triangles are in the scene and they're all differently colored and it basically just looks like
tv static yeah it just looks like complete noise but it's not noise
so many of those like little tiny bits are actual just triangles and that's
already like the optimized fraction of the whole number of
triangles they said there was like billions of triangles in the scene but
then nanite can just optimize it and take the 20
million or so that mattered so that's about uh for an hd image like a 1080p
image it's like one triangle per pixel yeah it was like a lot of the pixels are
just going to be a triangle so it puts a lot more detail into the scene and it
also just makes it a lot quicker for developers to make cool looking stuff
because they don't have to as we said manually go through and bake these
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now to talk more about what we were talking about it seems like
it kind of assesses how powerful your machine is and then
gives like allocates a triangle count based on that because they said that it's also going to be available from
mobile like it's a scalable platform that can you know they want you want to develop
in one engine it gets used multiple places obviously if you're playing on an Android device you're not going to have
that many triangles right so instead i guess
they'll just lower the triangle count and it'll still be dynamic and everything yeah this one was still
pretty high because apparently it was running on the ps5
which we will get to the thing that kind of like maybe rubbed me a bit the wrong
way about this demo was a where were the plants they're in a cave
yeah so that was a little cheap though because like hey it's pretty easy to
make rocks look nice you know they're just kind of like they're basically polygons already it's like oh this rock
is made of a million polygons like we've got a rock that's basically oh
well it's like six or seven polygons you got a rock yeah but they had a bunch of
them though yeah but still it's they're rocks you know you want to
really impress me get this
can't reach it but that little thing there look how many polygons are in that
maybe none because it's 2d what but
regardless regardless it's it's more detailed i know it's a
fake plaid but 3d that's a fake plant
what are you talking we don't even have real plants on this show um no i saw
some people complaining about that well not complaining but like they were
commenting on the youtube video and on reddit and they were kind of like all right this is really impressive it looks
real nice but you know i want to see how maybe it
doesn't deal with like foliage very well if you can import like a super high
quality asset like a film quality asset of like a plant and you know animate it
to like move in the wind how does it deal with that like maybe it only really
deals with these like static mega scan images because that that was
one of the things that all the rocks and uh some of the i mean
the rocks were imported from qixel mega scans which is like photogrammetry where
they like 3d scanning real images epic owns them
oh they own kwixel yeah right brazil just doesn't have any plants in there
yeah they're just like we do rocks sorry guys we don't do plants we do rocks we
do space you want to make a game with rocks we got you covered plants whoa
whoa whoa slow down here buddy also the
thing that was slightly i don't know rubbed me the wrong way
maybe was that the like the woman character didn't look photorealistic at
all she looked very cartoony well it's not the focus of the demo though the
focus of the demo is how dynamic all of
all the environments can be made yeah well if you want to make headlines where
it's like mind-blowing demo who's a hand was good man like the landing on the
rocks and stuff as she walked around like that was good it was good that was
cool i just feel like there were there are like photorealistic people and like
those the final fantasy games just get the models from those no one
has hair like that just yeah that's true although i've never been to korea
they're advanced i've never been to whatever the planet is in final fantasy
vii korea gaia
can we talk about lumen yeah lumen so that was the other big thing yeah so
this basically it's a way for light and and and a lot of game engines already do
this the first xbox man splinter cell shoot out the light and then the light
in the room changes right right but that could have been like a pre-baked thing
like you you shoot the light and that triggers a different pre-baked lighting setup
whereas if in that game you can you know move the
light around and move it wherever you want and the light changes dynamically
they did have that there could be like a bulb on the end of a string and it could swing it's been a
long time since i played splinter cell just the difference is the bouncing yeah
multi-bounce lighting there we go david knows what he's talking about but even
even in modern games that are much newer than the original splinter cell yeah
they have sometimes pretty crappy implementations right lighting so like
if you're playing ghost recon there could be some lamps that you shoot
out and then it gets dark but then there could be a in that same space maybe you
walk into like a barn you shoot the light on the ceiling and
that light like disappears but then the halo a cone of light that was emanating
from it like remains yeah yeah pretty hit or miss yeah and that i hate that so
what most games do like in rainbow six sieges they just make the lights indestructible you shoot the traffic
light it doesn't have anything maybe it flickers while you're shooting it but it
doesn't actually break especially there's other things that you can destroy right like if you can break down
a wall and then there's rubble all that rubble should be occluding
other things around it it should have shadows in every which way and that's
what we saw in this demo yeah they just take the sun and move it and then all
those little pebbles that you're complaining about all the rocks each one of those gets its own dynamic
shadow it's really cool do you know if lumen will be able to work with rtx i'm
asking you as if you know but i don't know do you don't know either because
this is an engine yeah i think it's not it's not a rtx is based on hardware
right now it uses the turing cores in
NVIDIA's hardware and you can run ray tracing on
like other hardware but it sucks so
i don't know how this works together in the context of the next-gen consoles
right those aren't NVIDIA they're not NVIDIA but they are supposed to have ray
tracing capability so i'm assuming that
there will be some sort of synergy here it won't be rtx it won't be rtx but
it'll be AMD's rt
rt red there was an unreal engine 4 demo for ray tracing this week oh yeah uh and
they showed like the ray tracing that's terrible in performance because it's all
like one-to-one scaling they don't have it like compromised yet oh
so ray tracing you can do that in unreal
engine obviously because that has existed for a little bit now but it
sucks so lumen maybe will assist
ray tracing and working better on future next-gen consoles and again
next-gen hardware it makes it easier for developers because they don't have to
make those again those texture maps there's light maps that are the same
thing you you wrap a 3d object with a light map to tell it how to behave when
light hits it you don't have to make those light maps anymore right so we can talk about how we're excited for this
all we want but it's also interesting to see what developers are actually saying
and i looked into this a little bit as i was saying i looked through the comments and i looked on reddit a little bit and
some people think that this is a groundbreaking technology that's gonna advance game dev you know tech by like
20 years and other people are like upset because they still don't want to learn
c sharp i think c plus plus is is used by a bunch of other stuff and c sharp is
the one that like you it helps a lot if you know c sharp to use unreal engine
so some there's really like it might not be as groundbreaking as
they're making it seem maybe we're getting caught up in the marking marketing they're just gonna have to do
the calculus of the side of like all the time savings and not having to make all
those maps yeah it's worth it to learn a new language even if they do spend the
time to do that regardless uh unreal engine apparently isn't going
to be out until mid 2021 anyways so the first console games to launch with the
new consoles well that's why they're not going to have it yeah first the first
like year and a half or two years like it appears that we're not gonna see games with this for quite some time
which is usually the case with these like summer game
uh expo reveals they'll be like oh look at this groundbreaking game and then
we're like oh it'll release in two or three years can't wait to play this when
i'm four yeah and then when the game comes out we'll look back at the original demo and be like hey
still not as good exactly one thing that's also kind of
misleading from the demo is like they make this big deal about how you can
take these movie quality assets and just plop them in and in that one room she
walks into it's like we just saw this like huge
high triangle count statue and then she walks into a room and they're like there's 500 of these right
but that's cool nanai can render it that's
one thing maybe it can but you still have to store that asset that takes up
space right and sure the the ps5 and the xbox they have high bandwidth ssds but
they still have limited capacity like that series x is going to be a terabyte
the ps5 i believe is like 825 gigabytes or something like that yeah
their demo is probably terabytes it's right it's huge that's the other thing i
saw people saying as well it's like okay we're complaining about call of duty war
zone being like 200 gigs or something how big is it yours is 180. with like uh
what was it advanced or modern warfare it's more i think warzone with like the
actual modern warfare installation is like over 200 gigs and we're complaining
about that but this is gonna be like if you're importing this these assets it's
gonna be like a terabyte so this it's not a panacea there's still gonna be
you know constraints for the developers to work under but hopefully you know
everyone just buys those uh proprietary seagate ssds for the xbox and then
you'll be fine and the other really cool thing about the announcement was that
unreal said developers don't owe an epic ascent until they make a million dollars
in revenue so not only are they like giving all these tools developers
they're also being like hey you can use it for free until you make some make
some coins and cool previously it was fifty thousand dollars if once you made
fifty thousand dollars in revenue then you had to pay up to a million but now it's a million wow it's crazy like even
if david's right and this doesn't look that much better than uncharted four
yeah i think that
even if the best game doesn't look that much better the average game is going to
look a lot better right now we mentioned earlier that this whole
thing was running on the ps5 and
we've seen some of the kind of like console war starting to heat up as we
approach the fall when the ps5 and the
xbox series x are going to release and uh right around the time that
unreal released this video of this demo a bunch of people were talking about the
ps5 because it was running on ps5 and they're like oh you know this is the
kind of experiences that the unreal that the ps5 is going to enable tim sweeney
said something about the SSD in particular because have you looked at
the the specs the comparative specs the the ps5 actually has a little less well
on paper it has a little less teraflops
fewer teraflops from the GPU but yeah it doesn't have like double the SSD
bandwidth right so compared to the xbox series x yeah so
the the ps5 SSD has 5.5 gigabytes per
second on their SSD and the xbox has 2.4
gigabytes per second bush league italy okay so this is a
quote they did uh tim sweeney's the ceo of epic and uh they did a press
conference for for this whole demo release and he says the storage
architecture on the ps5 is far ahead of anything you can buy on anything on pc
for any amount of money right now it's going to help drive future pcs
like they're going to see this thing ship and say oh wow ssds are going to
need to catch up with this which
obviously makes pc enthusiasts a little
salty i mean i hope it's true well but this is the thing is that
you know that that kind of bandwidth you can get that on NVMe ssds right now so
everyone's like what the heck are you talking about you might not be strictly talking about bandwidth though he just
says the architectures yes light years ahead so yeah what other parts of that
are i think it's the it's the bandwidth and the SSD and how it's like designed and
integrated with the whole system so that developers can like get this you know
closed platform and be like all right i'm going to only work with this and
like make things like really freaking quick you know but who
knows the best information we have so far is that the SSD and the RAM are way
closer integrated so that it can like offload processing that's not or
processing that it doesn't have to do onto the SSD
leave it keep rendering on the RAM and then load stuff and exchange stuff
really fast they're really they're closer together so they're basically
yeah if if you have the ramen SSD kiss then that's where
that's that's the best console that's only the beginning of the data transfer
that goes from SSD to RAM yep to vram
to l2 cache on the GPU to l1 cache on
the GPU those are my favorite that's where the kiss the french kisses happen
ps5 is also going to have you know like the 3d the 3d audio tempest did you see
this whole thing you can map your ear mark cerny the uh i don't understand
that like with headphones like when using headphones who does understand it
i've used apps before i've seen headphones before where you use your phone to take a picture of your ear yeah
and then they they say it makes it makes the sound better for you or whatever but
i'm if i'm playing console on my couch sitting at
one of many couch positions because my couch is huge
um such a big if there's other people in the room like
how does how does this track to to a room with 5.1 or or you
basically you take a picture of your ear and then the computer gets it and it's
like hmm this is who i'm doing this for and then it just kind of makes it care
more about it you know it doesn't make any sense maybe for headphones that
makes perfect sense it's only for headphones it's only for
headphones but why you know why stop at headphones
why stop it for so many practical reasons why stop at simulating
individual raindrops in a rain or shower scene because apparently that's what
it's going to do i want to know exactly how many atoms are in each raindrop so
that when it drops you know when it falls and hits the floor it's like
and i'm like that's right that's what it sounds like steve jobs next computers
like i want the inside that only the technician's going to see i want that to
be beautiful i'll pay and i'll pay you for it if you had to
buy a console because all this is you know all this is really conjecture like
we've gotten the we've gotten the specs we've gotten all this hype and these
demos put out but like we don't really know what the actual we don't know which
one's gonna be better because they're not out yet we don't have our we can't
get our hands on the meat or the controllers or the controllers
sometimes if you have just the meat and just the controller it's okay but in
this case we need both yeah so do you have loyalty to anything i've
been in xbox man but you're an xbox i had a ps1 then i had an xbox then i had
xbox 360 on day one oh wow that was the last console i owned so i'm kind of an
xbox man but dang dude i don't really like playstation controllers i don't
like the symmetrical thumb it's more ergonomic for me to have my thumbs up i've hated
the ps4 controller the playstation controller in general since since it's
forever but this one actually looks i mean it they basically it looks like
they took the the xbox's controller form factor and just kind of
put their well the joy sticks at the bottom i don't like it can you get over
it dude all right well i'm done talking but talk linked we'll be back to talk
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