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wow talk length no way i forgot about that

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sorry remember when we were going to bring it back oh

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sorry tackling we're doing a tackling yes

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um but we're remaining socially physically distant as you can see just

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in case you're and socially i'm going to look at the camera i'm not actually acknowledging

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you 91 inches

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that's 231 centimeters oh yeah wow it's 2.3 meters

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so we're we're properly distant but why are we here james you tell me because i

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saw a game demo yesterday that blew my little mind and you wanted to talk about

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it no i didn't think i was gonna be allowed are you a game developer no one

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day though i think so so the reason we're

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here is because yesterday epic games uh released a demo

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of unreal engine 5 which is the fifth

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version of unreal engine the name says it all

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hey yeah and it was it was pretty mind-blowing but i have to say everyone

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was talking about it being super super mind-blowing and i watched it i was kind of like well okay

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it looks pretty good the rocks look good that's what david said yeah he said it's

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not that much better than uncharted 4. i think i was expecting a little more like

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i don't know transforming robots and they should have had the rock in it yes

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the rock makes everything better looking at rocks so there's another reason why

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it was kind of disappointing because uh jeff keeley

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the kind of like godfather of the gaming industry i guess at this point he's

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doing this whole thing called the summer game fest where they're doing all these

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game reveals and they were like all right the first game reveal of the

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summer game fest is going to happen on wednesday

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tune in and then people tune in it's not even a game it's not even a

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real game it's unreal engine but that doesn't does that count as a game reveal

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no that's just a totally encapsulated demo yeah although it was running in

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real time time and like you can interact with it but yeah there's no story

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there's nothing there's probably nothing beyond what we saw there is a story the

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the thing is called lumen in the land of nanite and i think maybe maybe the girl

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was called lumen and those were all her nanite friends

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yeah so it was apparently running in real time although we have no way of

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actually proving that but the thing that was actually impressive

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about this demo was the technology called nanite

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and lumen and lumen but nanite's really the star of the show and nanite is a

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technology that basically will allow developers to import

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full detail models

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from apps like zbrush or whatever if they went in and like created a statue

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with like a million different a lot of triangles or or import an asset from

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like a film library and they just like stick it right in the game and don't

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have to do anything you don't need to make lods right level of detail things

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usually in a game you have stuff really close to the screen really close to the

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observer be high detail but you don't want to render stuff that

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you can't see because that's a waste of energy and compute so when something

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gets farther from the screen and it's small you have

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more coarse and rough character models so lower polygon count rileys yes you

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know you're pretty high def right now but if you were 40 feet away you might

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as well just like lower the number of triangles down to like a six yeah a head

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a chest yeah i get crushed into like just like a a play-doh ball yeah yeah

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but and that's time consuming to make all those lods

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now they don't have to it's very it's very they have to do it manually they

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have to go through and kind of like take a bunch of polygons and like crunch it

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down into like one polygon or something for like a you know a statue made of the

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one they showed in the in the demo was made of 33 million triangles well the

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one that they have in the demo is a cinema quality yes like so that one they

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wouldn't even have imported the high the highest definition lod probably wouldn't

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even have that many triangles right but in the demo they just import the cinema

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quality ones right into the game boom and then nanite will dynamically

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re-render and reduce the number of triangles depending on how much space

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the object takes in the screen right and it was pretty impressive i mean like

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looking at that statue if you were looking at it on a high resolution

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screen it was like okay i can see why they're saying this is

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photorealistic because it didn't i mean that could have you could have told me

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if you just took a still frame of the statue and you were like this is a photo

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i'd be i'd be like well the other part of it i have no reason to think you're

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lying you're actually just looking at a high triangle count model you're not

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looking at because normally they'll make a character model that'll be lower

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poly count and then they'll wrap it with a texture map like a normal map right

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that makes it look higher texture they like take these details that are actual

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geometrical details and kind of like flatten it out into a texture so it

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looks like a bunch of detail but really it's just a flat polygon yeah it's just like a flat like quilt that

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wraps around an object and then it knows based on the observer's position what it

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should reflect back of them or how it should appear and then it can give the illusion of depth to things but now

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they're not even gonna have to you're not even gonna have to make normal maps or light maps right you can just

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look at the object so neither of us are game developers but

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what this is actually supposed to do or what it promises to do is to a make

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everything a lot more detailed because you got so many triangles did you see

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the little the part in the video where they're like okay here's we're actually

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looking at how many triangles are in the scene and they're all differently colored and it basically just looks like

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tv static yeah it just looks like complete noise but it's not noise

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so many of those like little tiny bits are actual just triangles and that's

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already like the optimized fraction of the whole number of

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triangles they said there was like billions of triangles in the scene but

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then nanite can just optimize it and take the 20

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million or so that mattered so that's about uh for an hd image like a 1080p

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image it's like one triangle per pixel yeah it was like a lot of the pixels are

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just going to be a triangle so it puts a lot more detail into the scene and it

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also just makes it a lot quicker for developers to make cool looking stuff

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because they don't have to as we said manually go through and bake these

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things hey i could talk about this for ages trust me but we gotta do a sponsor

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now to talk more about what we were talking about it seems like

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it kind of assesses how powerful your machine is and then

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gives like allocates a triangle count based on that because they said that it's also going to be available from

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mobile like it's a scalable platform that can you know they want you want to develop

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in one engine it gets used multiple places obviously if you're playing on an Android device you're not going to have

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that many triangles right so instead i guess

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they'll just lower the triangle count and it'll still be dynamic and everything yeah this one was still

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pretty high because apparently it was running on the ps5

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which we will get to the thing that kind of like maybe rubbed me a bit the wrong

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way about this demo was a where were the plants they're in a cave

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yeah so that was a little cheap though because like hey it's pretty easy to

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make rocks look nice you know they're just kind of like they're basically polygons already it's like oh this rock

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is made of a million polygons like we've got a rock that's basically oh

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well it's like six or seven polygons you got a rock yeah but they had a bunch of

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them though yeah but still it's they're rocks you know you want to

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really impress me get this

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can't reach it but that little thing there look how many polygons are in that

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maybe none because it's 2d what but

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regardless regardless it's it's more detailed i know it's a

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fake plaid but 3d that's a fake plant

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what are you talking we don't even have real plants on this show um no i saw

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some people complaining about that well not complaining but like they were

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commenting on the youtube video and on reddit and they were kind of like all right this is really impressive it looks

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real nice but you know i want to see how maybe it

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doesn't deal with like foliage very well if you can import like a super high

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quality asset like a film quality asset of like a plant and you know animate it

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to like move in the wind how does it deal with that like maybe it only really

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deals with these like static mega scan images because that that was

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one of the things that all the rocks and uh some of the i mean

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the rocks were imported from qixel mega scans which is like photogrammetry where

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they like 3d scanning real images epic owns them

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oh they own kwixel yeah right brazil just doesn't have any plants in there

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yeah they're just like we do rocks sorry guys we don't do plants we do rocks we

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do space you want to make a game with rocks we got you covered plants whoa

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whoa whoa slow down here buddy also the

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thing that was slightly i don't know rubbed me the wrong way

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maybe was that the like the woman character didn't look photorealistic at

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all she looked very cartoony well it's not the focus of the demo though the

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focus of the demo is how dynamic all of

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all the environments can be made yeah well if you want to make headlines where

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it's like mind-blowing demo who's a hand was good man like the landing on the

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rocks and stuff as she walked around like that was good it was good that was

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cool i just feel like there were there are like photorealistic people and like

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those the final fantasy games just get the models from those no one

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has hair like that just yeah that's true although i've never been to korea

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they're advanced i've never been to whatever the planet is in final fantasy

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vii korea gaia

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can we talk about lumen yeah lumen so that was the other big thing yeah so

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this basically it's a way for light and and and a lot of game engines already do

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this the first xbox man splinter cell shoot out the light and then the light

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in the room changes right right but that could have been like a pre-baked thing

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like you you shoot the light and that triggers a different pre-baked lighting setup

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whereas if in that game you can you know move the

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light around and move it wherever you want and the light changes dynamically

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they did have that there could be like a bulb on the end of a string and it could swing it's been a

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long time since i played splinter cell just the difference is the bouncing yeah

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multi-bounce lighting there we go david knows what he's talking about but even

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even in modern games that are much newer than the original splinter cell yeah

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they have sometimes pretty crappy implementations right lighting so like

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if you're playing ghost recon there could be some lamps that you shoot

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out and then it gets dark but then there could be a in that same space maybe you

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walk into like a barn you shoot the light on the ceiling and

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that light like disappears but then the halo a cone of light that was emanating

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from it like remains yeah yeah pretty hit or miss yeah and that i hate that so

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what most games do like in rainbow six sieges they just make the lights indestructible you shoot the traffic

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light it doesn't have anything maybe it flickers while you're shooting it but it

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doesn't actually break especially there's other things that you can destroy right like if you can break down

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a wall and then there's rubble all that rubble should be occluding

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other things around it it should have shadows in every which way and that's

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what we saw in this demo yeah they just take the sun and move it and then all

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those little pebbles that you're complaining about all the rocks each one of those gets its own dynamic

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shadow it's really cool do you know if lumen will be able to work with rtx i'm

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asking you as if you know but i don't know do you don't know either because

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this is an engine yeah i think it's not it's not a rtx is based on hardware

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right now it uses the turing cores in

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NVIDIA's hardware and you can run ray tracing on

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like other hardware but it sucks so

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i don't know how this works together in the context of the next-gen consoles

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right those aren't NVIDIA they're not NVIDIA but they are supposed to have ray

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tracing capability so i'm assuming that

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there will be some sort of synergy here it won't be rtx it won't be rtx but

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it'll be AMD's rt

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rt red there was an unreal engine 4 demo for ray tracing this week oh yeah uh and

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they showed like the ray tracing that's terrible in performance because it's all

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like one-to-one scaling they don't have it like compromised yet oh

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so ray tracing you can do that in unreal

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engine obviously because that has existed for a little bit now but it

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sucks so lumen maybe will assist

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ray tracing and working better on future next-gen consoles and again

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next-gen hardware it makes it easier for developers because they don't have to

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make those again those texture maps there's light maps that are the same

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thing you you wrap a 3d object with a light map to tell it how to behave when

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light hits it you don't have to make those light maps anymore right so we can talk about how we're excited for this

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all we want but it's also interesting to see what developers are actually saying

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and i looked into this a little bit as i was saying i looked through the comments and i looked on reddit a little bit and

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some people think that this is a groundbreaking technology that's gonna advance game dev you know tech by like

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20 years and other people are like upset because they still don't want to learn

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c sharp i think c plus plus is is used by a bunch of other stuff and c sharp is

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the one that like you it helps a lot if you know c sharp to use unreal engine

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so some there's really like it might not be as groundbreaking as

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they're making it seem maybe we're getting caught up in the marking marketing they're just gonna have to do

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the calculus of the side of like all the time savings and not having to make all

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those maps yeah it's worth it to learn a new language even if they do spend the

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time to do that regardless uh unreal engine apparently isn't going

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to be out until mid 2021 anyways so the first console games to launch with the

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new consoles well that's why they're not going to have it yeah first the first

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like year and a half or two years like it appears that we're not gonna see games with this for quite some time

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which is usually the case with these like summer game

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uh expo reveals they'll be like oh look at this groundbreaking game and then

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we're like oh it'll release in two or three years can't wait to play this when

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i'm four yeah and then when the game comes out we'll look back at the original demo and be like hey

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still not as good exactly one thing that's also kind of

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misleading from the demo is like they make this big deal about how you can

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take these movie quality assets and just plop them in and in that one room she

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walks into it's like we just saw this like huge

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high triangle count statue and then she walks into a room and they're like there's 500 of these right

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but that's cool nanai can render it that's

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one thing maybe it can but you still have to store that asset that takes up

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space right and sure the the ps5 and the xbox they have high bandwidth ssds but

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they still have limited capacity like that series x is going to be a terabyte

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the ps5 i believe is like 825 gigabytes or something like that yeah

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their demo is probably terabytes it's right it's huge that's the other thing i

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saw people saying as well it's like okay we're complaining about call of duty war

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zone being like 200 gigs or something how big is it yours is 180. with like uh

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what was it advanced or modern warfare it's more i think warzone with like the

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actual modern warfare installation is like over 200 gigs and we're complaining

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about that but this is gonna be like if you're importing this these assets it's

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gonna be like a terabyte so this it's not a panacea there's still gonna be

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you know constraints for the developers to work under but hopefully you know

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everyone just buys those uh proprietary seagate ssds for the xbox and then

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you'll be fine and the other really cool thing about the announcement was that

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unreal said developers don't owe an epic ascent until they make a million dollars

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in revenue so not only are they like giving all these tools developers

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they're also being like hey you can use it for free until you make some make

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some coins and cool previously it was fifty thousand dollars if once you made

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fifty thousand dollars in revenue then you had to pay up to a million but now it's a million wow it's crazy like even

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if david's right and this doesn't look that much better than uncharted four

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yeah i think that

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even if the best game doesn't look that much better the average game is going to

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look a lot better right now we mentioned earlier that this whole

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thing was running on the ps5 and

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we've seen some of the kind of like console war starting to heat up as we

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approach the fall when the ps5 and the

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xbox series x are going to release and uh right around the time that

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unreal released this video of this demo a bunch of people were talking about the

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ps5 because it was running on ps5 and they're like oh you know this is the

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kind of experiences that the unreal that the ps5 is going to enable tim sweeney

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said something about the SSD in particular because have you looked at

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the the specs the comparative specs the the ps5 actually has a little less well

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on paper it has a little less teraflops

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fewer teraflops from the GPU but yeah it doesn't have like double the SSD

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bandwidth right so compared to the xbox series x yeah so

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the the ps5 SSD has 5.5 gigabytes per

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second on their SSD and the xbox has 2.4

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gigabytes per second bush league italy okay so this is a

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quote they did uh tim sweeney's the ceo of epic and uh they did a press

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conference for for this whole demo release and he says the storage

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architecture on the ps5 is far ahead of anything you can buy on anything on pc

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for any amount of money right now it's going to help drive future pcs

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like they're going to see this thing ship and say oh wow ssds are going to

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need to catch up with this which

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obviously makes pc enthusiasts a little

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salty i mean i hope it's true well but this is the thing is that

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you know that that kind of bandwidth you can get that on NVMe ssds right now so

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everyone's like what the heck are you talking about you might not be strictly talking about bandwidth though he just

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says the architectures yes light years ahead so yeah what other parts of that

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are i think it's the it's the bandwidth and the SSD and how it's like designed and

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integrated with the whole system so that developers can like get this you know

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closed platform and be like all right i'm going to only work with this and

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like make things like really freaking quick you know but who

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knows the best information we have so far is that the SSD and the RAM are way

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closer integrated so that it can like offload processing that's not or

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processing that it doesn't have to do onto the SSD

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leave it keep rendering on the RAM and then load stuff and exchange stuff

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really fast they're really they're closer together so they're basically

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yeah if if you have the ramen SSD kiss then that's where

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that's that's the best console that's only the beginning of the data transfer

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that goes from SSD to RAM yep to vram

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to l2 cache on the GPU to l1 cache on

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the GPU those are my favorite that's where the kiss the french kisses happen

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ps5 is also going to have you know like the 3d the 3d audio tempest did you see

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this whole thing you can map your ear mark cerny the uh i don't understand

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that like with headphones like when using headphones who does understand it

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i've used apps before i've seen headphones before where you use your phone to take a picture of your ear yeah

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and then they they say it makes it makes the sound better for you or whatever but

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i'm if i'm playing console on my couch sitting at

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one of many couch positions because my couch is huge

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um such a big if there's other people in the room like

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how does how does this track to to a room with 5.1 or or you

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basically you take a picture of your ear and then the computer gets it and it's

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like hmm this is who i'm doing this for and then it just kind of makes it care

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more about it you know it doesn't make any sense maybe for headphones that

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makes perfect sense it's only for headphones it's only for

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headphones but why you know why stop at headphones

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why stop it for so many practical reasons why stop at simulating

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individual raindrops in a rain or shower scene because apparently that's what

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it's going to do i want to know exactly how many atoms are in each raindrop so

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that when it drops you know when it falls and hits the floor it's like

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and i'm like that's right that's what it sounds like steve jobs next computers

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like i want the inside that only the technician's going to see i want that to

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be beautiful i'll pay and i'll pay you for it if you had to

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buy a console because all this is you know all this is really conjecture like

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we've gotten the we've gotten the specs we've gotten all this hype and these

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demos put out but like we don't really know what the actual we don't know which

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one's gonna be better because they're not out yet we don't have our we can't

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get our hands on the meat or the controllers or the controllers

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sometimes if you have just the meat and just the controller it's okay but in

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this case we need both yeah so do you have loyalty to anything i've

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been in xbox man but you're an xbox i had a ps1 then i had an xbox then i had

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xbox 360 on day one oh wow that was the last console i owned so i'm kind of an

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xbox man but dang dude i don't really like playstation controllers i don't

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like the symmetrical thumb it's more ergonomic for me to have my thumbs up i've hated

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the ps4 controller the playstation controller in general since since it's

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forever but this one actually looks i mean it they basically it looks like

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they took the the xbox's controller form factor and just kind of

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put their well the joy sticks at the bottom i don't like it can you get over

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it dude all right well i'm done talking but talk linked we'll be back to talk

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more at a later time so thanks for watching guys if you like talk linked

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wait for a while talk talk a bit more talk talk whenever you want to we'll do

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it sometime new talk links every sometimes every

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and stay away from me continue to do that

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oh my god your poor laptop screen