WEBVTT 00:00:00.120 --> 00:00:08.820 one of my favorite all-time videos is this retrospective look at an absolutely 00:00:05.420 --> 00:00:11.700 incredible eight core Enthusiast PC from 00:00:08.820 --> 00:00:17.699 Intel that held up shockingly well for its age today's subject is it's much 00:00:14.820 --> 00:00:24.300 stupider cousin from AMD on the surface everything about the quad father kind of 00:00:20.460 --> 00:00:26.880 checks out it also looks Flippin badass 00:00:24.300 --> 00:00:31.619 it also shipped with up to eight processing cores and it also supports 00:00:29.699 --> 00:00:38.940 the best Gaming Technologies from the time like high speed ddr2 memory and 00:00:34.920 --> 00:00:41.940 quad SLI gpus luckily for Intel that's 00:00:38.940 --> 00:00:45.899 where the resemblance ends right out of 00:00:41.940 --> 00:00:47.700 the gate it was hot slow and comically 00:00:45.899 --> 00:00:57.420 overpriced to the point where I would argue that quad FX is the worst consumer 00:00:52.260 --> 00:00:59.760 CPU platform of all time okay that's a 00:00:57.420 --> 00:01:05.580 big claim I know but I think by the time we're done here including taking the 4x4 00:01:02.879 --> 00:01:09.540 Out for a Rip even the most Ardent of AMD Fanboys is going to come around to 00:01:07.740 --> 00:01:14.939 my viewpoint and come around to this message from our sponsor MSI MSI wants 00:01:13.140 --> 00:01:19.560 to level up your gaming experience with an epic gaming laptop from their epic 00:01:16.979 --> 00:01:25.020 summer sale let them help you check out MSI's summer sale event using the link 00:01:21.420 --> 00:01:26.939 below watching AMT is kind of like those 00:01:25.020 --> 00:01:32.100 videos right where you see the kid ripping down the hill they go flying 00:01:29.580 --> 00:01:38.640 over the handlebars and you're like okay it's okay to laugh they're doing 00:01:34.799 --> 00:01:41.040 fine but speaking as an Enthusiast who 00:01:38.640 --> 00:01:46.619 cheered when AMD brought 64-bit Computing and dual core processors to 00:01:43.500 --> 00:01:48.840 the mainstream in 2006 00:01:46.619 --> 00:01:54.659 we weren't ready to laugh yet it was a painful time first Intel jabbed with the 00:01:52.259 --> 00:02:00.740 Core 2 lineup of dual core processors that made Athlon X2 look slow and 00:01:57.600 --> 00:02:00.740 inefficient by comparison 00:02:01.680 --> 00:02:09.780 quad core versions of those same chips that left AMD's premium offerings 00:02:06.360 --> 00:02:12.500 looking utterly irrelevant so what did 00:02:09.780 --> 00:02:17.459 AMD do this 00:02:13.800 --> 00:02:19.140 I mean it kind of makes sense you know 00:02:17.459 --> 00:02:23.099 you're not going to have a proper quad core offering until sometime next year 00:02:21.060 --> 00:02:26.819 you've got some room to move on pricing thanks to your mature manufacturing 00:02:24.660 --> 00:02:31.260 process and realistically speaking even if no one 00:02:30.120 --> 00:02:38.340 buys it you're probably better off paper launching some limited edition nonsense 00:02:36.599 --> 00:02:42.360 rather than leaving your competitor completely alone at the top of the 00:02:40.319 --> 00:02:48.480 performance charts which is a strategy that AMD has employed more than once 00:02:45.540 --> 00:02:55.980 the issue though is that AMD didn't just paper launch it in November 2006 AMD 00:02:52.500 --> 00:02:58.620 released not one but an entire lineup of 00:02:55.980 --> 00:03:03.720 FX 70 series processors they were dual cores of course since 00:03:01.620 --> 00:03:09.300 they were fundamentally just re-badged opterons with boosted clock speeds but 00:03:06.300 --> 00:03:11.220 they marketed them as a quad core 00:03:09.300 --> 00:03:16.319 solution because they were only available to be purchased in pairs and 00:03:13.980 --> 00:03:23.280 only intended to work in this dual socket motherboard the l1n64 series from 00:03:20.400 --> 00:03:28.019 ASUS and this board has actually pretty cool it uses a one-off version of 00:03:25.800 --> 00:03:31.739 NVIDIA's 680 series of chipsets which gives it some unique selling points over 00:03:29.700 --> 00:03:37.260 the server boards that operons normally relied on first up it had support for 00:03:34.560 --> 00:03:42.180 regular unbuffered ddr2 which could operate at higher speeds than ECC 00:03:39.180 --> 00:03:45.659 registered dims at the time second it 00:03:42.180 --> 00:03:47.879 had much more consumer slash workstation 00:03:45.659 --> 00:03:54.239 oriented i o I mean look at this thing tons of USB got your e-SATA you got your 00:03:51.560 --> 00:04:00.379 optical audio out I guess a lot of people use that 12 SATA ports though my 00:03:57.000 --> 00:04:03.900 goodness and finally it had support for 00:04:00.379 --> 00:04:06.120 multi-GPU SLI technology this is 00:04:03.900 --> 00:04:13.019 actually where our second curiosity today comes in remember how referred to 00:04:09.299 --> 00:04:14.580 quad FX as 4x4 earlier well that was one 00:04:13.019 --> 00:04:21.359 of the earlier code names and it referred to the platform's ability to 00:04:16.260 --> 00:04:23.340 run four cores and four gpus at once the 00:04:21.359 --> 00:04:28.500 name ultimately died presumably when NVIDIA limited SLI to only two of the 00:04:26.580 --> 00:04:35.699 slots on the motherboard but the capability actually remains if you use 00:04:30.840 --> 00:04:40.440 two dual GPU cards mate the ASUS Mars 00:04:35.699 --> 00:04:43.020 GTX 760 an unfathomably stupid product 00:04:40.440 --> 00:04:47.580 that actually came quite a bit later but just felt like an appropriate pairing 00:04:45.600 --> 00:04:52.259 for this thing we'll get into this in a bit more detail later on first I want to 00:04:49.860 --> 00:04:58.680 come back to quad effects the initial reviews ranged from optimistic that it 00:04:55.139 --> 00:05:00.720 could maybe hopefully please improve to 00:04:58.680 --> 00:05:04.639 downright scathing even outwardly mocking AMD's stated intention of 00:05:02.820 --> 00:05:09.360 selling High volumes of this indefensible product but something that 00:05:07.199 --> 00:05:13.919 everyone agreed on at the time was that there could be an interesting upgrade 00:05:12.120 --> 00:05:19.500 path for users who were willing to invest in the platform once AMD started 00:05:16.740 --> 00:05:26.039 shipping true quad-core CPUs that could be slotted into this motherboard's LGA 00:05:21.600 --> 00:05:28.139 1207 socket and that is exactly what 00:05:26.039 --> 00:05:33.720 we're going to be trying today the viewer who lent us his quad effects 00:05:29.940 --> 00:05:36.800 setup included a pair of opteron 2352 00:05:33.720 --> 00:05:41.280 quad cores these didn't arrive until 00:05:36.800 --> 00:05:43.080 2008 by which time both ASUS and AMD had 00:05:41.280 --> 00:05:48.900 formally dropped support for the original quad 00:05:44.580 --> 00:05:52.020 but what they revised slash B version of 00:05:48.900 --> 00:05:55.380 the original board or with a clever hot 00:05:52.020 --> 00:05:58.919 BIOS flashing trick you could unlock the 00:05:55.380 --> 00:06:01.460 raw power of dual quad core processors 00:05:58.919 --> 00:06:07.440 operating at a staggering 2.1 gigahertz and all for the downright 00:06:04.380 --> 00:06:10.139 reasonable price of just 315.99 00:06:07.440 --> 00:06:14.100 couldn't think of it that is pretty reasonable but 00:06:12.240 --> 00:06:20.940 I'll let you in a little secret the price says very little about AMD's 00:06:17.160 --> 00:06:22.860 magnanimous nature and a lot about AMD's 00:06:20.940 --> 00:06:27.120 Fortunes in the two years since this platform first hit the scene when they 00:06:24.900 --> 00:06:32.160 were hoping to get a thousand dollars per pair of dual cores fun fact by the 00:06:30.180 --> 00:06:37.080 way we've got the coolers on now you can see we actually had to 3D print apart 00:06:34.560 --> 00:06:41.340 for them which I then had to zip tie the bracket onto because the 3D printed 00:06:38.639 --> 00:06:45.840 thing didn't have a hook and that's not even the jankiest thing about this setup 00:06:42.960 --> 00:06:52.259 remember how I said that quad FX didn't need server RAM 00:06:47.639 --> 00:06:55.319 well these are opterons so they do so 00:06:52.259 --> 00:06:57.199 much for the slot and upgrade now we 00:06:55.319 --> 00:07:03.180 could have easily obtained a pair of fx74s on eBay including this delightful 00:07:00.479 --> 00:07:10.020 Factory sealed one but since I didn't feel like spending 600 on E-Waste not to 00:07:06.720 --> 00:07:13.280 mention even more on Dual Channel ddr2 00:07:10.020 --> 00:07:13.280 ECC memory sorry 00:07:13.380 --> 00:07:19.380 I didn't do it not when I could spend the money on the new fleece-lined jacket 00:07:17.160 --> 00:07:23.160 from ltdstore.com it's a shirt it's a jacket it's both a couple more finishing 00:07:21.960 --> 00:07:28.639 touches like adding our second Mars 760. 00:07:28.860 --> 00:07:34.919 honestly just can't believe people bought either of these things like 00:07:32.699 --> 00:07:39.060 literally anyone I remember I was working sales at the time and on more 00:07:37.080 --> 00:07:43.440 than one occasion I saw orders come in for Quad effects and I actually checked 00:07:42.120 --> 00:07:47.280 the invoice called them I got on the phone with 00:07:45.539 --> 00:07:52.380 these people and I tried to sell them something different something faster and 00:07:49.500 --> 00:07:55.919 cheaper but some of them were just such pathetic fanboys 00:07:54.120 --> 00:08:00.180 but I just couldn't do anything to help them I also can't believe I hired one of 00:07:58.020 --> 00:08:06.780 them that's right there is someone who works here whose judgment is so impaired 00:08:02.880 --> 00:08:09.060 that they actually bought a quad effects 00:08:06.780 --> 00:08:13.080 in all seriousness though Gary from the lab is a tinkerer and he goes out of his 00:08:11.280 --> 00:08:16.860 way to subject himself to early adopter pain for the learning opportunities 00:08:14.759 --> 00:08:21.000 that's why he actually daily is an arc GPU as well 00:08:18.419 --> 00:08:26.400 I question his masochism but I do admire his moxie anywho 00:08:24.120 --> 00:08:30.960 time to fire up this mess oh wait no it isn't we're gonna need some power 00:08:27.900 --> 00:08:33.899 connectors imagine having the 24-pin ATX 00:08:30.960 --> 00:08:36.779 power connector there and that not being the worst thing about your platform I 00:08:35.880 --> 00:08:42.899 mean I make fun of it now but at the time I'd have given just about anything for one 00:08:40.560 --> 00:08:48.899 of these I mean not just about not a thousand dollars less than that oh 00:08:46.380 --> 00:08:53.580 it's alive full disclosure I'm not 100 sure if this 00:08:51.959 --> 00:08:57.420 is gonna boot up right now um Gary and Tim from the lab spent 00:08:55.260 --> 00:09:03.360 basically an entire day getting this thing operational they have forbidden me 00:09:00.060 --> 00:09:05.100 from touching anything in the BIOS we 00:09:03.360 --> 00:09:10.200 also had a couple of bent pins in the CPU socket that Dan fixed and refused to 00:09:08.160 --> 00:09:14.220 install Windows XP so we swapped it to Windows 7 which 00:09:12.120 --> 00:09:18.060 I turn on oh also the onboard networking isn't working so we put in this PCIe car 00:09:16.560 --> 00:09:23.100 oh I guess I should pluck a cable into it yes 00:09:20.160 --> 00:09:26.880 everything is working we're gonna follow a similar Playbook to 00:09:24.959 --> 00:09:33.660 last time so the first thing we're going to try and do is just an everyday oh 00:09:30.600 --> 00:09:36.120 uh uh no it is not 2001. one moment 00:09:33.660 --> 00:09:41.760 please oh wow as I was about to say the first thing 00:09:38.700 --> 00:09:43.860 we'll be doing is just generally trying 00:09:41.760 --> 00:09:50.459 to use the computer including playing back a YouTube video 00:09:46.740 --> 00:09:54.180 that took a long time to load 00:09:50.459 --> 00:09:56.160 uh we can search the right oh 00:09:54.180 --> 00:10:01.680 did you see the delay between me clicking that text box and it actually 00:09:58.800 --> 00:10:05.580 highlighting let's start with 1080p video shall we okay 00:10:07.500 --> 00:10:15.000 oh at least It upgraded to 720p but we 00:10:11.279 --> 00:10:17.180 were sucking back 400 watts before we've 00:10:15.000 --> 00:10:24.000 settled into 265 and I'm currently playing back 00:10:21.380 --> 00:10:30.660 720p video okay what happens when I go to 1080p 00:10:27.540 --> 00:10:34.440 did it go up again oh my God 400 okay 00:10:30.660 --> 00:10:37.019 let's switch to 4K no 00:10:34.440 --> 00:10:41.820 no 4K playback season up on my CPU 00:10:39.420 --> 00:10:47.540 Chrome just Chrome I think it's time to move on to gaming 00:10:45.060 --> 00:10:54.839 NVIDIA control panel uh is this supposed to happen 00:10:51.839 --> 00:10:54.839 sir 00:11:00.480 --> 00:11:11.700 screw it I'm playing no wait no wait no oh my God I mean tell 00:11:08.880 --> 00:11:16.560 me this though is the FPS as expected about 40 frames per second okay then I'm 00:11:13.560 --> 00:11:17.940 not gonna worry about oh my god oh wow 00:11:16.560 --> 00:11:20.720 that hitching though this thing's a piece 00:11:22.560 --> 00:11:29.519 why did you buy it because 00:11:25.980 --> 00:11:32.459 it was there my suspicion 00:11:29.519 --> 00:11:35.899 this card is actually defective let's go out to the control panel 00:11:37.140 --> 00:11:42.000 I do know how to configure things now 00:11:40.140 --> 00:11:46.800 because you know but you know you drop things awesome don't worry 00:11:44.000 --> 00:11:49.880 I can text him and we'll as he drops it 00:11:50.220 --> 00:11:57.480 okay fine we'll flip the cards I think that'll probably fix it uh 00:11:58.560 --> 00:12:05.040 this wasn't meant to be part of this video but hey it's a fun little lesson 00:12:02.459 --> 00:12:11.220 anyway you can have a graphics card that's just a little bit defective like 00:12:08.519 --> 00:12:15.839 say for example the memory is no longer capable of running at its stock clock 00:12:13.500 --> 00:12:22.320 speed with stability without corrupting the data and so what can happen is that 00:12:18.899 --> 00:12:24.480 GPU can still be performant right so you 00:12:22.320 --> 00:12:29.459 could hook it up in SLI and if it's not the output 00:12:25.800 --> 00:12:32.220 you can actually get a clean image and 00:12:29.459 --> 00:12:36.660 you can get some if not most of the performance scaling that you would get 00:12:33.720 --> 00:12:39.839 from two fully functional gpus but you won't really notice that the thing's 00:12:38.339 --> 00:12:47.760 broken unless you have the display hooked up to that one unless it's running as the primary GPU I've seen it 00:12:43.079 --> 00:12:49.079 a handful of times hey oh no green 00:12:47.760 --> 00:12:52.680 it could have been right hey it's running on high though I have 00:12:51.360 --> 00:12:58.079 no sound but I can do the sounds myself medic 00:12:54.899 --> 00:13:00.420 get on the point it's a really rare 00:12:58.079 --> 00:13:04.980 platform so most people don't have any context for it right 00:13:02.399 --> 00:13:11.399 but guys it's it's really really slow like in games this thing was like 00:13:07.980 --> 00:13:12.839 half the performance of a Core 2 Duo 00:13:11.399 --> 00:13:19.980 yes oh oh it has its moments oh 00:13:16.519 --> 00:13:21.899 remember guys SLI was bad enough for 00:13:19.980 --> 00:13:28.260 NVIDIA to just unceremoniously discontinue it quad SLI 00:13:25.920 --> 00:13:32.880 and the problems exacerbated by running a more demanding game which 00:13:30.959 --> 00:13:39.540 by modern standards Team Fortress 2 obviously isn't but for the setup it 00:13:36.120 --> 00:13:40.740 certainly is okay this is pretty bad I 00:13:39.540 --> 00:13:47.760 don't even think I'm gonna bother with shadow of the Tomb Raider but 00:13:43.680 --> 00:13:50.519 this is a CPU from 15 years ago with a 00:13:47.760 --> 00:13:55.800 small army of gpus from 10 years ago and it was worse before Labs managed to hack 00:13:53.160 --> 00:14:01.200 together the NVIDIA and the ASUS drivers for these gpus which took us from a 00:13:58.500 --> 00:14:06.300 screen Terry 60 hertz Mass to the relatively smooth operation that you 00:14:03.540 --> 00:14:11.399 just saw with all of that said there are some things that are clearly holding us 00:14:08.339 --> 00:14:14.880 back and a big one is these awful Mars 00:14:11.399 --> 00:14:18.300 gpus what a weird product I mean on the 00:14:14.880 --> 00:14:21.060 surface again it kind of made sense ASUS 00:14:18.300 --> 00:14:26.220 recognized that buying two mid-range gpus and running them in SLI sometimes 00:14:23.880 --> 00:14:31.040 was more cost effective than buying a single high-end GPU but then they did 00:14:28.980 --> 00:14:38.160 the whole thing wrong 760s had only two gigs of vram meaning 00:14:34.680 --> 00:14:41.579 that these four gpus in the quad SLI 00:14:38.160 --> 00:14:44.459 configuration had 66 percent as much 00:14:41.579 --> 00:14:50.160 effective frame buffer as a single 780. making matters worse the combined card 00:14:47.459 --> 00:14:57.060 just the individual card never mind four gpus cost more than a single 780 and 00:14:53.760 --> 00:15:00.420 also cost more than two regular 760s 00:14:57.060 --> 00:15:02.880 which you could equally just run an SLI 00:15:00.420 --> 00:15:07.459 if you really wanted to I think you were there 00:15:03.600 --> 00:15:07.459 did anyone at ASUS think of that 00:15:07.620 --> 00:15:13.079 what do you mean convenience you know one card it's easy oh shut up you never 00:15:11.760 --> 00:15:18.959 believed that the only use case that I could imagine 00:15:15.720 --> 00:15:22.440 for this thing is if you could run SLI 00:15:18.959 --> 00:15:25.079 in a non-sli board but then of course 00:15:22.440 --> 00:15:29.880 NVIDIA didn't allow that making the Mars the kind of thing where you just go how 00:15:27.420 --> 00:15:33.779 did this ever make it out of the r d lab but nobody bought these in fact I think 00:15:31.980 --> 00:15:39.300 they were even a limited edition product so where would you be right now if you 00:15:37.139 --> 00:15:43.740 had actually purchased a quad effect setup and we're still running it to this 00:15:41.220 --> 00:15:49.440 day but with a more modern card we're going to throw an RTX 3060 on here and 00:15:46.680 --> 00:15:56.279 find out just that thing what is this PCIe Gen 2 no I I think it is Gen 2 I 00:15:54.000 --> 00:16:00.839 think it's gen one theoretically it's still backwards before it's compatible 00:15:57.660 --> 00:16:03.899 look at this mouse go or rather look at 00:16:00.839 --> 00:16:05.399 it and not go look at it skip oh hey 00:16:03.899 --> 00:16:11.160 we're back uh 00:16:06.980 --> 00:16:13.800 oh why would RTX 30 series be supported 00:16:11.160 --> 00:16:17.579 in Windows 7. wait that was a Windows 7 driver there 00:16:15.839 --> 00:16:23.639 totally is a Windows 7 driver it just didn't work at all 00:16:20.040 --> 00:16:26.639 it doesn't really matter the point is 00:16:23.639 --> 00:16:29.820 the performance would suck these are 00:16:26.639 --> 00:16:31.920 dual quad core CPUs and modern games do 00:16:29.820 --> 00:16:36.360 benefit from higher core counts but their core architecture lagged behind 00:16:33.660 --> 00:16:43.500 the competition even at launch and it hasn't aged well also these are clocked 00:16:39.300 --> 00:16:46.199 a whopping 30 slower than the FX dual 00:16:43.500 --> 00:16:51.180 cores that came two years prior that is a huge problem especially in games at 00:16:49.139 --> 00:16:55.139 the time which heavily relied on single core performance 00:16:52.920 --> 00:17:00.899 imagine getting an upgrade path that is worse than nothing congrats AMD you 00:16:57.360 --> 00:17:03.959 invented Metapod and that is what makes 00:17:00.899 --> 00:17:06.240 this the worst consumer CPU platform of 00:17:03.959 --> 00:17:11.400 all time I mean if it was cheap and cheerful and had a great upgrade path 00:17:07.980 --> 00:17:15.000 I'd be willing to entertain what Pentium 00:17:11.400 --> 00:17:17.819 D maybe Prescott something in the Rambis 00:17:15.000 --> 00:17:22.140 era for that Crown but quad FX made a sucker out of everyone who bought one 00:17:19.860 --> 00:17:27.179 and then AMD promptly rewarded their most loyal fans by offering them a joke 00:17:24.540 --> 00:17:31.440 of an upgrade path so goodbye quadfather it's been an experience 00:17:29.460 --> 00:17:36.299 just like you should experience our sponsor backblaze backblaze has an easy 00:17:34.020 --> 00:17:40.860 to use cloud backup solution for your super secret files we won't ask we don't 00:17:39.419 --> 00:17:44.520 want to know they're affordable with plans starting at just seven dollars a 00:17:42.900 --> 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