1 00:00:00,160 --> 00:00:05,720 is this talk linked on a Wednesday what 2 00:00:04,000 --> 00:00:11,320 what that's exciting what is the meaning of this so before we get into the uh 3 00:00:08,719 --> 00:00:16,720 epic gam store crisis as I like to call it um we I want to let you guys know 4 00:00:13,799 --> 00:00:19,880 that we're going on workation LMG lus Media Group so there will be no Tech 5 00:00:18,640 --> 00:00:26,640 linked on Friday but then we'll be back on 6 00:00:22,760 --> 00:00:29,119 Monday so it's okay the epic game store 7 00:00:26,640 --> 00:00:36,000 it's disrupted the industry in a huge way what a mess people are mad people 8 00:00:32,200 --> 00:00:37,680 are upset on both sides of the aisle 9 00:00:36,000 --> 00:00:43,640 Democrat and Republican even Ralph nater's 10 00:00:40,800 --> 00:00:48,920 po but it's a huge mess so in order to understand it we have to go back to the 11 00:00:44,960 --> 00:00:52,520 beginning okay we have to go back 12 00:00:48,920 --> 00:00:54,559 Marty so in December epic games launched 13 00:00:52,520 --> 00:00:58,440 the epic games store okay and the big news when they launched it was that they 14 00:00:56,320 --> 00:01:05,199 had an 88 to 12% developer to store Revenue shares so 15 00:01:01,399 --> 00:01:08,240 that's 88% to the developers of sales 16 00:01:05,199 --> 00:01:10,640 12% to the store yep okay and that was a 17 00:01:08,240 --> 00:01:17,080 big deal because valve takes 30% of sales from Steam from Steam the 18 00:01:14,560 --> 00:01:21,600 deao Monopoly player in this space right if you don't know 19 00:01:18,880 --> 00:01:25,840 steam it's kind of a big deal yeah it's the big Monopoly yeah you're right so 20 00:01:23,320 --> 00:01:30,799 shortly after epic announced that valve changed their revenue share to take 25% 21 00:01:28,079 --> 00:01:34,799 from games that make over $10 million and 20% from games that make over 50 22 00:01:33,280 --> 00:01:38,600 million so they were like uh we can change the revenue share but you got to 23 00:01:37,040 --> 00:01:42,759 make a ton of money it's a weird response because on the one hand that's 24 00:01:40,360 --> 00:01:47,960 going to cost valve a lot of money from those whales those big developers so 25 00:01:46,000 --> 00:01:54,119 absolute value wise that's a lot of money going from 30 down to 25% that 5% 26 00:01:51,399 --> 00:01:58,399 means a lot on the other hand that did nothing to incentivize medium small to 27 00:01:56,640 --> 00:02:02,560 medium developers exactly it really only affects the big players and 28 00:02:00,360 --> 00:02:08,720 it's important because while epic's Revenue split is apparently designed to 29 00:02:05,439 --> 00:02:10,520 help small developers that situation 30 00:02:08,720 --> 00:02:15,080 where you have to sell a million copies of your game in order to make more money 31 00:02:13,120 --> 00:02:18,800 uh in order to have a greater Revenue share doesn't really help small 32 00:02:17,080 --> 00:02:22,440 developers at all it only helps the big guys who are like you know Ubisoft which 33 00:02:20,800 --> 00:02:27,360 is going to sell a million copies anyways and even for those big guys it's 34 00:02:24,440 --> 00:02:31,440 still 8% higher rate than epic is offering yeah it doesn't even get down 35 00:02:29,200 --> 00:02:36,840 there like significant that's they only got they only got halfway there for some 36 00:02:32,959 --> 00:02:38,319 of the people yeah so initially it it 37 00:02:36,840 --> 00:02:43,879 seemed pretty good the revenue share was cool but then epic games store started 38 00:02:41,480 --> 00:02:48,760 grabbing exclusive games so they started with some indie games and stuff but then 39 00:02:45,480 --> 00:02:50,560 they grabbed Metro Exodus which was you 40 00:02:48,760 --> 00:02:53,680 know the sequel to the Metro franchise which is pretty popular so as I 41 00:02:52,000 --> 00:02:58,159 understand it Metro was already listed on Steam you could pre-order it yes it 42 00:02:56,040 --> 00:03:04,440 was coming out just like two weeks hence that's very and then psych it's going to 43 00:03:00,920 --> 00:03:06,440 be only on Epic yeah however we will 44 00:03:04,440 --> 00:03:09,760 honor any pre-orders yeah they're going to honor pre-orders but it was still 45 00:03:08,120 --> 00:03:16,760 like a huge shock right cuz you're like wait what I was what so then they then 46 00:03:14,000 --> 00:03:21,440 they grabbed Borderlands 3 and then they had control and this is like kind of in 47 00:03:19,519 --> 00:03:26,280 this ensuing months they grabbed control from RE games a lot of Ubisoft PC titles 48 00:03:24,480 --> 00:03:31,040 like the new gross Recon and division 2 and stuff are on uh they're they're an 49 00:03:29,360 --> 00:03:36,120 exclusive to the epic game store but you still have to install up play right yeah 50 00:03:34,040 --> 00:03:41,120 the division 2 was also on up playay cuz it's it's ubisoft's game makes sense so 51 00:03:38,640 --> 00:03:45,200 then real quick adding insult to injury they also started grabbing even more 52 00:03:43,080 --> 00:03:49,760 games that had already been on other platforms so like rocket League my 53 00:03:47,640 --> 00:03:55,599 favorite game and they took that off steam basically well they they they 54 00:03:52,519 --> 00:03:57,519 bought the developer cionic so that's 55 00:03:55,599 --> 00:04:01,720 going to be only available to buy on epic's game store right now it's still 56 00:03:58,879 --> 00:04:05,319 on Steam but it'll be an Epic original in a sense yeah sort of because they own 57 00:04:03,480 --> 00:04:09,120 it and if you still own it on Steam it'll still be there but they grabbed 58 00:04:07,319 --> 00:04:13,959 that and then they also bought uh games like the outer Wilds that had 59 00:04:11,400 --> 00:04:17,720 crowdfunding uh commitments commitments to steam like outer Wilds got 60 00:04:15,640 --> 00:04:23,240 crowdfunded on Indiegogo or whatever and they said that it would launch on Steam 61 00:04:19,959 --> 00:04:26,120 and then epic bought it so they're like 62 00:04:23,240 --> 00:04:29,759 oh just kidding it won't be on Steam so see from the de developers perspective 63 00:04:28,040 --> 00:04:33,280 you're playing with fire you're right you're garnering negative sentiment from 64 00:04:31,360 --> 00:04:36,800 your own Community especially from a crowdfunding campaign where these are 65 00:04:35,400 --> 00:04:40,160 like the early adopters these are the die hards these people are really going 66 00:04:38,400 --> 00:04:44,880 on out on a limb to help you they're your real fans to betray those people is 67 00:04:42,360 --> 00:04:50,400 not a good not a good scene exactly and so this is where you know things got a 68 00:04:47,120 --> 00:04:53,080 little ugly where um yeah people were 69 00:04:50,400 --> 00:04:59,479 getting upset about it and they might be justified but real quick let's talk 70 00:04:56,880 --> 00:05:03,240 about why epic would want to do this okay because why the exclusives angle 71 00:05:01,720 --> 00:05:10,400 yeah they came in here kind of disrupting the industry you know but but but why so 72 00:05:07,800 --> 00:05:15,120 here's the argument Tim Sweeney the CEO of 73 00:05:11,199 --> 00:05:17,080 Epic uh says that exclusives are quote 74 00:05:15,120 --> 00:05:23,319 the only strategy that will change the 7030 status quo of the game industry so 75 00:05:21,120 --> 00:05:27,840 he kind of like presents this as they're doing a good thing it's not so much that 76 00:05:26,039 --> 00:05:31,759 they're he's saying that the company is not coming in here trying to be like uh 77 00:05:30,160 --> 00:05:37,039 we want all the market share and all the users we're doing a good this is social 78 00:05:34,680 --> 00:05:42,160 justice well he is saying that he wants to add competition to this Marketplace 79 00:05:39,039 --> 00:05:44,919 he does say that but yeah his major spin 80 00:05:42,160 --> 00:05:49,720 he he's even gone so far to as to say that if steam were to change their 81 00:05:46,960 --> 00:05:55,080 prices to the same split that epic has that they would just close up shop and 82 00:05:52,639 --> 00:06:00,319 even list the epic games on Steam that's true and I you have to wonder if he said 83 00:05:58,479 --> 00:06:04,600 that because he knows Val isn't going to do that or whether I think it's all spin 84 00:06:03,639 --> 00:06:13,319 the reason that they're doing the exclusives thing is just because it's a smart play from a a network economics 85 00:06:09,440 --> 00:06:15,599 perspective so instead of instead of 86 00:06:13,319 --> 00:06:19,479 building an app that's feature Rich let's say it matches the it matches 87 00:06:17,680 --> 00:06:24,319 steam feature for feature you spend all the money developing that app and then 88 00:06:21,960 --> 00:06:29,039 you try to give players a reason to go to it right that's risky right they took 89 00:06:27,800 --> 00:06:33,120 the opposite approach they made a minimally viable product they made a 90 00:06:31,280 --> 00:06:37,440 store that's just a store there's no carts there's no reviews there's no wish 91 00:06:35,400 --> 00:06:42,759 list they didn't even have refunds they got nothing it's just barebones you can 92 00:06:39,400 --> 00:06:45,000 buy stuff they started with that mvp and 93 00:06:42,759 --> 00:06:49,759 they but critically they give you a reason to actually go there fortnite 94 00:06:47,759 --> 00:06:53,039 other titles right so you start with getting users to the platform and then 95 00:06:51,680 --> 00:06:58,360 you build out the platform with the features that users will eventually want 96 00:06:55,280 --> 00:07:01,440 and that strategy while it probably 97 00:06:58,360 --> 00:07:03,000 seems good to team Sweeney is people are 98 00:07:01,440 --> 00:07:07,680 not happy about it because then that means that they are forced to use a 99 00:07:05,479 --> 00:07:10,639 platform that they don't really want to use because it doesn't have all the 100 00:07:08,879 --> 00:07:15,280 stuff that steam has a lot of Creature Comforts especially if you're talking about a sequel like Borderlands where 101 00:07:13,360 --> 00:07:19,240 you've played the first two games with all of the community aspects and social 102 00:07:17,199 --> 00:07:22,840 aspects that are built into steam and now if you want to play the third one 103 00:07:21,000 --> 00:07:27,319 you can't carry over all those Creature Comforts that you're used to exactly so 104 00:07:25,400 --> 00:07:33,360 in terms of the features you mentioned that epic games has way less features 105 00:07:29,960 --> 00:07:36,520 than steam epic has released a road map 106 00:07:33,360 --> 00:07:38,479 for development they have said you know 107 00:07:36,520 --> 00:07:41,759 obviously we're not just bringing in all these people and then just going to like 108 00:07:40,160 --> 00:07:45,120 make them use our crappy store like we want to make the store good so they've 109 00:07:43,319 --> 00:07:49,720 released a road map uh it's publicly viewable on Trello um it's a live 110 00:07:47,639 --> 00:07:53,960 document it's a Bo and they're changing it as as they go but the problem is as 111 00:07:52,319 --> 00:07:58,520 some people on Reddit have pointed out they've already missed a bunch of deadlines and this is the way the road 112 00:07:56,879 --> 00:08:01,720 maps go that that's part for the chus for software yeah yeah exactly they say 113 00:08:00,639 --> 00:08:07,960 that we're going to oh we're going to have these many in 6 months but they don't hit it and that obviously is 114 00:08:06,199 --> 00:08:13,000 making people concerned there have also been concern some concerns about data 115 00:08:09,840 --> 00:08:15,360 collection because Chinese gaming giant 116 00:08:13,000 --> 00:08:19,240 company tensent has a stake in the company so people were kind of concerned 117 00:08:18,000 --> 00:08:25,280 that like 10 cent was like stealing their data and stuff I think those concerns are valid and uh concern those 118 00:08:23,840 --> 00:08:29,800 concerns are concerning they're valid concerns and 119 00:08:27,360 --> 00:08:34,039 they really um kind of stink up the soup but I think that those concerns will be 120 00:08:31,400 --> 00:08:39,080 minimized once the other concerns about the platform and the feature set are 121 00:08:36,680 --> 00:08:43,200 assuaged once they deal with that people won't care as much about this other 122 00:08:41,200 --> 00:08:47,519 thing right now they're focusing on games that are destination games you're 123 00:08:45,920 --> 00:08:50,800 going to you will switch because you really want to play this game and when 124 00:08:49,160 --> 00:08:56,640 they load up their library with games like that um the users that they gain on 125 00:08:53,560 --> 00:08:58,600 a per game basis is very large right and 126 00:08:56,640 --> 00:09:02,800 eventually they'll have so many users that um a lot of developers want to be 127 00:09:00,600 --> 00:09:06,440 on the platform they'll have acred enough finances that they'll be able to 128 00:09:04,920 --> 00:09:11,440 build all these new features and they'll be able to afford to add new games to 129 00:09:08,440 --> 00:09:13,240 the library because right now like with 130 00:09:11,440 --> 00:09:18,360 the thing with dark you read about unfold games um dark is an indie game 131 00:09:16,120 --> 00:09:23,120 very popular and they invited the developer and the game to be on Epic and 132 00:09:20,600 --> 00:09:29,040 the developer said no yeah they refused and even though they offered him upfront 133 00:09:25,480 --> 00:09:31,079 money they offered him um guaranteed 134 00:09:29,040 --> 00:09:35,320 Revenue you I don't know how that is how that works but they just basically throw 135 00:09:33,160 --> 00:09:39,800 a ton of money at them being like even if you don't sell as many as you think 136 00:09:38,279 --> 00:09:43,959 you're going to sell or something we're going to give you that money as if you 137 00:09:41,279 --> 00:09:47,680 had broke even yeah and I that's kind of the interesting thing is that they're 138 00:09:45,399 --> 00:09:52,800 throwing so much money at developers uh in order to gain these 139 00:09:50,000 --> 00:09:57,360 exclusivity deals but I think Gamers what they want in ex what they actually 140 00:09:55,240 --> 00:10:00,959 want is for the company to spend that money on the platform itself and get it 141 00:09:59,399 --> 00:10:05,200 to a point where it is competitive with steam they will do that though well 142 00:10:03,320 --> 00:10:11,399 that's that's the promise but it it seems so far that they are you know 143 00:10:08,920 --> 00:10:15,200 getting in all of these users and then just like keeping them there like they 144 00:10:13,399 --> 00:10:19,519 have a road map for development I I know but like they're going super slow 145 00:10:17,040 --> 00:10:23,959 they've been out since December it's coming up on a year and they haven't 146 00:10:21,200 --> 00:10:27,440 really added that much that is actually useful I know that they've added some 147 00:10:25,480 --> 00:10:29,880 things on the back end like the the the game tagging is better for like 148 00:10:28,760 --> 00:10:33,640 searching and and stuff but they still don't have a shopping cart a lot of it's 149 00:10:31,760 --> 00:10:37,519 going to be invisible to you though a lot of it is like localization new 150 00:10:35,920 --> 00:10:44,000 currencies and stuff like that true you'll never see cuz they already have US dollars but that's not what that's 151 00:10:40,519 --> 00:10:46,800 not what Gamers want Gamers want 152 00:10:44,000 --> 00:10:50,800 electrolytes they they want they want the things that they can see a yeah 153 00:10:48,920 --> 00:10:57,639 achievements friends list communities mods they want all of these things um so 154 00:10:54,200 --> 00:10:59,000 it's it's it's hard to see it's hard to 155 00:10:57,639 --> 00:11:05,160 I think that what it really comes down to is not knowing what is going on in 156 00:11:01,639 --> 00:11:07,519 epic's head like are they evil or are 157 00:11:05,160 --> 00:11:11,000 they good they have to be one you have to pick 158 00:11:08,720 --> 00:11:18,800 one Tim be a good guy or a bad guy yeah what 159 00:11:15,040 --> 00:11:21,600 does Epic do well they have the revenue 160 00:11:18,800 --> 00:11:26,000 share they they have the 8812 split in order to actually help Indie developers 161 00:11:24,079 --> 00:11:30,360 that's what they say is one of their main objectives more money that a 162 00:11:28,519 --> 00:11:34,480 developer can spend making the game better that's true or they can actually 163 00:11:32,040 --> 00:11:38,360 pass it on to Consumers which actually happened with Metro exus it's not really 164 00:11:36,480 --> 00:11:43,440 clear if it came from True the game company or from EGS but when they moved 165 00:11:41,760 --> 00:11:46,399 from Steam to the game store it was cheaper it was $10 cheaper I think they 166 00:11:44,959 --> 00:11:52,720 did that because of the way it was right before launch they didn't want people were mad so hey at least it's $10 167 00:11:49,920 --> 00:11:56,000 cheaper so because the developer has all that more all that much more percentage 168 00:11:54,720 --> 00:12:01,120 to deal with they can actually just make the game a little cheaper and still be making more money indeed so they they 169 00:11:59,040 --> 00:12:05,959 also Al have the influencer marketing program which is kind of like iffy I 170 00:12:03,720 --> 00:12:10,519 guess but they are making it really easy for Indie developers to reach out to 171 00:12:08,680 --> 00:12:13,959 influencers like twitch streamers and say hey you want to play our game and 172 00:12:12,279 --> 00:12:17,639 we'll give you a bit of the cut or whatever so they're helping them again 173 00:12:15,600 --> 00:12:23,079 in that way and they also have pledged to support crossplay uh initiatives so 174 00:12:21,480 --> 00:12:27,360 like with rocket league and fortnite and now pubg I think just added it that's 175 00:12:25,760 --> 00:12:30,199 not on epic game store but that kind of thing where you have people from 176 00:12:28,920 --> 00:12:37,240 different platforms playing together epic has said that that's important to them so they they they are doing some 177 00:12:35,639 --> 00:12:41,480 good things there is a downside for India developers too whereas the 178 00:12:39,480 --> 00:12:45,279 exclusive model is really attractive if your game is a destination title like 179 00:12:43,279 --> 00:12:49,560 Metro Exodus where people are going to move platforms just to play that game 180 00:12:47,440 --> 00:12:52,920 that's great but if you're an indie developer and no one knows your game 181 00:12:51,240 --> 00:12:57,480 it's better for you to be on multiple platforms indeed it's better for you to 182 00:12:54,760 --> 00:13:01,480 be on Steam and on Epic because you just want as many people to see your game as 183 00:12:58,880 --> 00:13:08,320 possible and that really kind of like ties into the fact that epic games seems 184 00:13:06,399 --> 00:13:11,360 like they say that they're trying to help the market but it really seems like 185 00:13:10,040 --> 00:13:17,680 they're trying to help themselves it seems like they're gobbling up exclusives gobbling up users and then 186 00:13:15,160 --> 00:13:24,000 not really paying off with the rich feature experience um if we look at 187 00:13:20,800 --> 00:13:27,880 something like Discord okay Discord has 188 00:13:24,000 --> 00:13:30,680 a game store they have a 90% Revenue 189 00:13:27,880 --> 00:13:37,639 share they give 90% of the revenue to developers and what did they do they had 190 00:13:33,120 --> 00:13:39,760 a interesting app that had cool features 191 00:13:37,639 --> 00:13:43,560 and everyone started using and then they added a store to it they started with 192 00:13:41,240 --> 00:13:46,399 the features then added the store right now the the Discord store is amazing 193 00:13:45,320 --> 00:13:51,079 either it doesn't have nearly as many features as Steam either but Discord has 194 00:13:48,480 --> 00:13:55,120 a compelling reason to use it beyond the revenue share and the 195 00:13:52,560 --> 00:13:58,720 exclusives so I I mean I have Discord everyone who plays PC games basically 196 00:13:56,600 --> 00:14:01,720 uses Discord to chat now so if they have a story they tack a store on there 197 00:14:00,440 --> 00:14:05,000 you're like oh okay that's fine it's a little more wholesome yeah how can you 198 00:14:03,560 --> 00:14:08,600 be mad at that you're already using Discord exactly but epic games come in 199 00:14:06,839 --> 00:14:12,160 there and be like oh this is we're doing a good thing for the people at least 200 00:14:10,519 --> 00:14:15,680 they have that going for them though that's good for games they got fortnite 201 00:14:13,759 --> 00:14:20,000 going for them if the conclusion of all of this is that steam ends up giving 202 00:14:17,839 --> 00:14:23,800 more money to developers and we have two platforms that are both very 203 00:14:21,600 --> 00:14:29,440 feature that would be great that would be great I want to live in that world I 204 00:14:26,839 --> 00:14:32,920 mean that depends on on Epic fulfilling their promise to build out the features 205 00:14:30,800 --> 00:14:36,920 which I'm sure they will I mean or they could just like nope the experience 206 00:14:34,560 --> 00:14:40,920 sucks forever and you just come here cuz you have no choice where you going to go 207 00:14:39,040 --> 00:14:46,240 I think they'll where you going to go you can't leave I think everyone will 208 00:14:42,880 --> 00:14:48,160 hate them and want to leave but they'll 209 00:14:46,240 --> 00:14:53,120 still have all the fortnite money if it got so bad and that's the real problem 210 00:14:50,560 --> 00:14:57,560 if it got so bad if sentiment was so bad then a game developer wouldn't want to 211 00:14:55,959 --> 00:15:01,560 be an exclusive for them regardless of the money they'd be like true that's 212 00:14:59,600 --> 00:15:06,440 true we'll have to see whether they get to the point where they their reputation 213 00:15:03,399 --> 00:15:07,759 is so tarnished yeah that a studio just 214 00:15:06,440 --> 00:15:12,399 doesn't even want to be associated with them which is kind of what unfold games 215 00:15:09,519 --> 00:15:15,320 did with dark said I'm not going to do that to my fans cuz dark is already on 216 00:15:14,000 --> 00:15:23,399 the steam that's true I'm not going to pull it and do that to my fans I can only hope that the discourse about the 217 00:15:19,199 --> 00:15:26,120 whole issue uh becomes slightly less 218 00:15:23,399 --> 00:15:33,160 toxic but uh it's hard to see how that could happen when Epic isn't really 219 00:15:30,360 --> 00:15:40,600 taking large strides towards what they say they want which is a featur you know 220 00:15:36,680 --> 00:15:41,959 alternative to steam so Sweeney if you 221 00:15:40,600 --> 00:15:46,279 disagree with us if you think you are taking large strides toward that then 222 00:15:44,560 --> 00:15:51,360 come and sit in this chair yeah you can talk to Riley come on tuck link you 223 00:15:48,440 --> 00:15:55,440 could be here hi Riley I'm Tim Sweeny I got something to say to you Mr Sweeney 224 00:15:53,519 --> 00:16:00,880 hey we're trying our best Riley well okay I have to believe you 225 00:15:59,279 --> 00:16:06,240 well that was a to link episode if you didn't know uh it's on TechLink is the 226 00:16:03,639 --> 00:16:09,480 channel talk link is the show and we're going to have more we're not going to be 227 00:16:07,880 --> 00:16:13,759 here on Friday in case you watched all the way to the end thank you so much and 228 00:16:11,680 --> 00:16:19,199 that's the end buy this merch oh yeah it's for a different Channel but we got 229 00:16:15,279 --> 00:16:21,279 hoodies we got a t-shirt we we got we 230 00:16:19,199 --> 00:16:25,279 got a set you can't buy the set check out these plants woo this isn't even 231 00:16:23,160 --> 00:16:28,440 real bet you didn't know that we don't have the money for it we don't have the 232 00:16:26,639 --> 00:16:33,519 time to water plants but we might have that time if you just give us more 233 00:16:31,440 --> 00:16:38,360 money I like how that's the we have a lot in common with epic 234 00:16:35,319 --> 00:16:42,240 actually TechLink gam 235 00:16:38,360 --> 00:16:42,240 store see you later