WEBVTT 00:00:00.160 --> 00:00:06.799 In this bag is a piece of testing equipment so sophisticated and so 00:00:04.400 --> 00:00:13.040 expensive that for its cost I could literally hire a full-time butler. It 00:00:09.280 --> 00:00:15.759 has an arbitrary waveform generator, 00:00:13.040 --> 00:00:20.640 power analysis options, automotive protocol. Okay, to explain what the crap 00:00:18.320 --> 00:00:25.119 it is, we've got Lucas from the lab who's using it for our power supply 00:00:22.560 --> 00:00:30.160 testing processes and who can hopefully explain a little bit of what we're about 00:00:27.359 --> 00:00:36.520 to look at. All I know is that this is the Roden Schwarz MX058. 2 GHz, uh, 00:00:33.920 --> 00:00:40.320 eight analog channels, uh, 16 digital channels, good oscilloscope. The funny 00:00:38.960 --> 00:00:44.559 part is, if you break it down, an oscilloscope doesn't really do that 00:00:42.160 --> 00:00:49.280 much. Just like your multimeter at home, it measures voltage using probes. But 00:00:47.360 --> 00:00:54.239 what makes it special is the fact that it can show that voltage and changes in 00:00:51.760 --> 00:00:58.719 voltage over time. With this particular one being able to handle, what is it? 00:00:55.840 --> 00:01:02.239 4.5 million signals per second. That's a lot, right? That's a lot. Yeah. 00:01:00.480 --> 00:01:06.240 Waveforms. First, I want to have a look at the accessories. Sure. Yeah. And I'll 00:01:04.559 --> 00:01:10.240 try not to break anything. Okay. That's why he's here. Why don't you explain 00:01:08.080 --> 00:01:13.439 some of these probes to us? Sure. Yeah. So, all it comes with eight analog 00:01:11.760 --> 00:01:18.320 probes. These ones here like I believe they're 10 to one probes. Would you 00:01:15.200 --> 00:01:20.479 abbreviate that like an AL for the 00:01:18.320 --> 00:01:24.040 analog ones as opposed to like digi? You might say digi probes or like anal 00:01:22.560 --> 00:01:28.400 probes? No. 00:01:25.920 --> 00:01:32.400 So what do we use these ones for? So this will just be your like general 00:01:30.000 --> 00:01:35.680 probes for viewing any any waveform really. Um right but it gets the full 00:01:34.240 --> 00:01:41.040 you know bandwidth and we have digital probes as well but those will just be one or zero. This gets you know whatever 00:01:38.880 --> 00:01:44.720 voltages. Now this is pretty overkill for what we use it for. Is that correct? 00:01:42.880 --> 00:01:49.200 Yeah. Yeah. This is yeah is a lot for what we do. We just measure um the four 00:01:46.880 --> 00:01:53.200 or five rails on a power supply um and some inputs to it. Conceivably. Could we 00:01:51.280 --> 00:01:56.399 use this to look at something like memory signaling or is that too fast? 00:01:55.280 --> 00:02:02.399 That's probably too fast. There's fancier oscilloscopes for that. But we have used this for some LT projects like 00:01:59.439 --> 00:02:05.439 the Soviet keyboard. Um Oh, when we were trying to reverse engineer it. Yeah. 00:02:03.840 --> 00:02:08.959 Yeah. Yeah. RL and I worked on that pretty uh closely and like worked to 00:02:07.439 --> 00:02:13.360 Yeah. see what all the signals were saying and decode it. So that was pretty cool. That's super cool. There's a 00:02:11.920 --> 00:02:17.760 little more to these than just the probes themselves. I noticed these little color coding rings and whatever 00:02:16.480 --> 00:02:21.360 it is that you're putting back in that baggie. Yeah. Yeah. So, the color coding 00:02:19.840 --> 00:02:25.760 is just, you know, helpful for color coding. 00:02:23.080 --> 00:02:29.120 Um, this is a typical, you know, flying lead ground cable. So, obviously, you 00:02:27.440 --> 00:02:33.519 need to complete the circuit. Yeah. Um, it's got a little, um, wrench in here 00:02:31.280 --> 00:02:37.120 for controlling the capacitance of the cables. Why do I want to change the 00:02:34.959 --> 00:02:40.879 capacitance of my probe? To compensate for the inductance of the probe. So, 00:02:39.360 --> 00:02:44.000 because it's a wire, you know, all wires are have capacitance and inductance. Oh, 00:02:43.040 --> 00:02:48.480 yeah. Yeah, it's hard to explain, but you know, square waveform, it's uh you 00:02:46.720 --> 00:02:52.959 want to be exactly square, but any inductance or capacitance will skew 00:02:50.879 --> 00:02:57.840 that. So, uh cuz it takes time for voltage to change and rise. Um so, you 00:02:55.599 --> 00:03:01.840 can um compensate for that by adjusting the capacitance typically. 00:03:00.319 --> 00:03:06.319 Is that it for the accessories? Basically, it's just got lots of probes 00:03:03.760 --> 00:03:10.319 in it. It's got some vasa mounts, too. Oh, okay. So, you can mount it on a 00:03:09.040 --> 00:03:14.400 monitor. Yeah, you can like you can get an arm for your rack, too, to hang it 00:03:12.480 --> 00:03:18.480 off. Okay, cool. And then other than that, uh, manual, power cord. Let's have 00:03:17.040 --> 00:03:21.920 a look at the scope itself. And maybe you can show us some of the wizardry you 00:03:20.560 --> 00:03:29.200 do with it. Let's see how much of this I can figure out on my own. Oh, fuse, 00:03:25.159 --> 00:03:32.480 power, on, off switch. I got that far. 00:03:29.200 --> 00:03:37.360 Whoa. It has an SSD, I guess. I've never 00:03:32.480 --> 00:03:39.920 opened that. Remove. I don't know. 00:03:37.360 --> 00:03:43.680 What? What? What are you worried about? Never tried it. Well, it's first time 00:03:41.519 --> 00:03:51.560 for everything. Oh, cool. It's just an M.2 drive. I want to open 00:03:46.599 --> 00:03:54.159 it. What M.2 drive would Roden Schwarz 00:03:51.560 --> 00:03:58.319 trust for their oscilloscope. Oh, look at that. It's our many times sponsor, 00:03:56.080 --> 00:04:01.360 Kioxia. Nice. It's actually more important than you would think to choose 00:03:59.760 --> 00:04:06.400 a high quality drive for an application like this cuz I would think it would just be constantly overwriting or I 00:04:05.040 --> 00:04:10.080 guess a lot of it would actually go straight to RAM in memory probably. 00:04:08.080 --> 00:04:13.599 Yeah. and then only be output to the SSD under Yeah, this is only 256 gigs. Yeah, 00:04:12.480 --> 00:04:20.400 one of their advertising features is they have a ton of memory so they can store all those waveforms um for long 00:04:17.919 --> 00:04:26.160 history and long sample rate or fast sample rate and we have extra options on 00:04:23.840 --> 00:04:31.360 ours that expands the memory. Is that correct? Yeah. Yeah, I believe. Yeah. Uh 00:04:28.320 --> 00:04:34.800 all right. So Oh, I forget how this goes 00:04:31.360 --> 00:04:36.960 together now. H that may have been a 00:04:34.800 --> 00:04:40.160 tactical error. There are way faster oscilloscopes. I was talking to the the 00:04:38.960 --> 00:04:44.080 guy we know at Ro Sports. He's like, "Yeah, it's a good uh you know, standard 00:04:42.000 --> 00:04:48.479 lab oscilloscope, but there's definitely faster ones and more expensive ones. You 00:04:46.160 --> 00:04:52.320 know, they go into like like dozens of gigahertz and faster for communications 00:04:50.960 --> 00:04:58.240 and all that stuff." And do we have any idea what something like that would cost? Uh hundreds of thousands probably. 00:04:55.680 --> 00:05:02.080 Cool. Very uh very specialized. So this is like really fancy to us. And then 00:05:00.400 --> 00:05:06.800 we've got people who work at, you know, NASA or whatever that are like a Yeah. 00:05:04.639 --> 00:05:11.280 Yeah. Cute. Okay, let's try and put this SSD back in. 00:05:08.960 --> 00:05:16.000 Uh-oh. I know, Lucas. I'm trying to fix it. Okay, man. You seem stressed. 00:05:13.360 --> 00:05:19.520 Hopefully, it works. It Look, it just says do not remove during operation. 00:05:18.000 --> 00:05:23.600 Okay, it doesn't say don't. Did you think it just said do not remove? Did you not? I didn't read it. I didn't read 00:05:22.000 --> 00:05:27.680 it. All right, cool. What else are we looking at here? Well, obviously we've 00:05:25.520 --> 00:05:31.800 got rubber feet that allow it to be in I don't know, other orientations. They go 00:05:29.440 --> 00:05:37.039 all the way back. We've got a couple of 120. Jeez, this thing needs a lot of 00:05:34.880 --> 00:05:41.600 cooling. Is that just the processing needed for this level of sampling or 00:05:39.520 --> 00:05:45.199 what? It's doing a lot of compute. Um, it does dissipate a little bit of power 00:05:43.039 --> 00:05:49.360 inside as well, depending on what you're uh like probing. Oh, I see. Like not on 00:05:48.240 --> 00:05:54.639 purpose. Obviously, they would love to not take any power, but you know, in measuring, you have to take in a little 00:05:52.880 --> 00:05:58.639 bit of current or whatever. So, that makes sense. And then, oh, here we go. 00:05:57.120 --> 00:06:01.919 So trigger in that'll be if you want to have an external trigger to capture 00:06:00.240 --> 00:06:06.160 something specific like if you can't manage it in the software right and you 00:06:04.720 --> 00:06:10.800 want to capture something or if it's like something that happens unpredictably or it's too fast for you 00:06:09.199 --> 00:06:15.199 to like manually go oh yeah I want to capture now it's all too fast to manually capture now but you know it'll 00:06:13.840 --> 00:06:20.400 happen automatically and then gen one and gen two never use those but I believe those are just from the function 00:06:17.840 --> 00:06:24.880 generator the arbitrary waveform ref out 10 MHz that's also the function 00:06:22.639 --> 00:06:28.560 generator this one probably calibrate off of I'm not sure out is for when you 00:06:27.120 --> 00:06:34.759 trigger on something like one of the waveforms, then you can set a pulse up there. Got it. And a USB device. I'm not 00:06:32.720 --> 00:06:39.440 sure what that one's for. Well, it's a target port, so I guess if we wanted to 00:06:37.199 --> 00:06:43.840 hook it up to the computer via USB, that's possible. Meanwhile, on the other 00:06:41.280 --> 00:06:47.280 side, we can connect USB devices to it. Do we connect it to the network? I guess 00:06:45.360 --> 00:06:51.199 for Yeah, we do. Yeah. For all of our control and um for viewing. And then do 00:06:49.600 --> 00:06:55.520 you use the HDMI and DisplayPort out or do you just use the built-in display? Uh 00:06:52.960 --> 00:06:59.440 no, you can do it all over LAN uh like for the you can display from the 00:06:57.199 --> 00:07:03.599 computer. So you use LAN both for remote control of the unit and to output to a 00:07:01.759 --> 00:07:06.080 display. Uh yeah. Yeah, it's just for the same thing. But uh actually I was 00:07:04.960 --> 00:07:09.280 looking on the website today and they have headless units of this as well. So 00:07:08.080 --> 00:07:12.880 it's basically the exact same thing but without the screen. You can just use the 00:07:11.199 --> 00:07:16.319 display out or the land. Okay. But this one has a screen. This one does have a 00:07:14.400 --> 00:07:19.840 screen. Okay. Do you use the screen at all or is it just kind of superfluous? 00:07:18.000 --> 00:07:24.319 Yeah, I mostly use the screen. Uh, use the LAN just for monitoring if I'm, you 00:07:21.919 --> 00:07:28.400 know, at my other desk. Got it. So, there's your eight analogs and then I 00:07:26.560 --> 00:07:32.000 guess each of these does eight digital channels. Yes, that's correct. Yeah. Oh 00:07:30.240 --> 00:07:36.720 my god. Why does it have so many USB ports on it? We use it to save waveforms 00:07:34.160 --> 00:07:39.759 uh to to USB if you want. Um, or you can use it for some power. Can you run us 00:07:38.319 --> 00:07:42.639 through some of these controls here? Yeah, so a lot of them are multi-use and 00:07:41.680 --> 00:07:47.360 they'll do different things depending on the screen. And it's a big touch screen, so you can do a lot with that. Um, but 00:07:45.840 --> 00:07:52.160 you can control each of the eight channels plus any logic ones and math 00:07:49.919 --> 00:07:55.599 ones. Control the vertical scale and position to move waveforms up and down. 00:07:54.080 --> 00:08:00.479 Makes it a little easier to see what you're looking at, I guess. Yeah, I guess if you want to change view or see 00:07:58.240 --> 00:08:03.759 a certain section of something. Um, you have horizontal controls for horizontal 00:08:02.240 --> 00:08:07.120 scale or position. Why don't we plug it into something and then maybe you can 00:08:05.360 --> 00:08:10.639 show us this in real time then? Yeah. Okay. Yeah, let's do that. When it comes 00:08:08.879 --> 00:08:15.520 to this kind of stuff, they just kind of say, "Here's the one I want." And I go, 00:08:12.240 --> 00:08:16.879 "Is it a good one?" and they say, "Yep. 00:08:15.520 --> 00:08:21.840 Do you have like a power supply? Is that what we're going to look at or like what are we going to look at?" Oh, yeah. 00:08:19.280 --> 00:08:26.479 Well, do you want to start the um screen recording? Oh, yeah. Um and tell you 00:08:24.800 --> 00:08:29.759 about our sponsor. Thanks to Motion Gray for sponsoring this video. Their Erggo 2 00:08:28.479 --> 00:08:33.279 is one of the most affordable options for sit-tostand desks on the market, 00:08:31.520 --> 00:08:37.680 making your next work or gaming station upgrade even cheaper. It has a weight 00:08:35.360 --> 00:08:42.640 capacity of 176 lbs and a height adjustment range of 28 to 46 in. Powered 00:08:40.320 --> 00:08:45.440 by a silent but powerful electric motor. The whole setup even ships out in one 00:08:44.159 --> 00:08:51.120 box with all the tools you need for assembly included. Pick one up with our link for an exclusive 15% off on top of 00:08:49.200 --> 00:08:55.560 any discount they may already have. Hey, it's booted up. Now what? I had a little 00:08:53.360 --> 00:09:02.560 demo prepared. Ooh, a demo. Demolition. Uh, no. Demonstration. 00:09:00.480 --> 00:09:07.040 Okay, so we got a little SBC of some sort. What's that? Like an ESP32 I set 00:09:05.120 --> 00:09:11.279 up here and I've just programmed it to uh send a little command here. Okay. So, 00:09:10.080 --> 00:09:16.240 one of the neat things about this oscilloscope is that um it can do a lot 00:09:14.080 --> 00:09:21.200 of decoding of digital signals. Oh, so we tell it which pins to monitor out of 00:09:18.880 --> 00:09:24.800 our eight channels here. Uh yes. Yeah. Sorry. So, I plugged in the digital. 00:09:23.120 --> 00:09:30.560 This is again this is the thing about engineering people. They just start doing stuff assuming that everyone 00:09:27.600 --> 00:09:34.480 around them is like following along. Yes. Carry on. So, I've plugged in the 00:09:32.480 --> 00:09:39.920 digital probe here. Uh channel zero and one. Um, and I can go in here and go 00:09:36.720 --> 00:09:42.000 into the apps and protocol and to SPI. 00:09:39.920 --> 00:09:46.399 So, I'm comm communicating over SPI. Okay. And set this S clock on channel 00:09:44.880 --> 00:09:50.480 one, I believe. So, this is the kind of thing where if you didn't know how this 00:09:49.040 --> 00:09:54.800 was outputting, it would be a bunch of trial and error to figure out how to 00:09:52.480 --> 00:09:58.240 even monitor it like if you trying to reverse engineer something. Yeah. So, a 00:09:56.480 --> 00:10:01.680 lot of this like a lot of the setup it's done while you're testing. You know, 00:10:00.320 --> 00:10:05.920 some of these parameters, but you also have to just kind of find some of this. 00:10:04.240 --> 00:10:10.000 I have to also change the trigger so that it triggers onto that one. So, 00:10:08.480 --> 00:10:15.680 there's plenty of nice triggers in here, but we're just triggering off of a digital signal. Okay. And the edge. So, 00:10:13.600 --> 00:10:20.800 whenever it rises, then it will capture a waveform. And that's how we can see 00:10:18.079 --> 00:10:25.279 this here. Okay. And what are we looking at here? So, here it's got automatic 00:10:22.959 --> 00:10:28.720 decoding of this. So, we just capture a single waveform. You can just capture a 00:10:26.640 --> 00:10:32.240 single one instead of run stop as it was before capturing all the latest ones. 00:10:30.320 --> 00:10:36.160 Mhm. Um, you can see and it's just automatically decoding the message I was 00:10:34.079 --> 00:10:40.640 sending. Oh. Oh, Leila. Oh, look at that. It says PSU circuit. Yes. Which is 00:10:38.959 --> 00:10:44.480 the channel where you guys can see all of the power supply testing that Lucas 00:10:42.640 --> 00:10:49.040 does. What are the chances? A more practical case would be you have your 00:10:45.839 --> 00:10:51.360 PCB or some other device. Um, did you 00:10:49.040 --> 00:10:55.040 just make this be a keyboard essentially? I guess in a really slow 00:10:53.120 --> 00:10:58.399 way, yes, we can make this a pre keyboard. Yeah. Could Could you just 00:10:56.240 --> 00:11:02.240 type into Could it could it detect that as well if you set up your triggers so 00:11:00.399 --> 00:11:05.920 that it Yeah. And like decoding of whatever um communication standard 00:11:04.800 --> 00:11:11.120 you're using. Yeah. It's got a lot of different ones you can do like canvas and other things for more like 00:11:09.200 --> 00:11:14.000 automotive. Yeah. Exactly. Okay. That's and more complicated stuff. So this is 00:11:12.320 --> 00:11:19.200 like a really simple example, but if you want to see if your sensor was actually giving back the proper values, there's 00:11:17.360 --> 00:11:22.880 maybe a breakdown in your lines somewhere, you could monitor that and 00:11:21.120 --> 00:11:26.240 see, oh yeah, it is sending everything back correctly, just we're losing it or 00:11:24.560 --> 00:11:30.480 we're decoding it incorrectly on our own. Oh, that's super cool for 00:11:28.640 --> 00:11:34.320 diagnostics then. Yeah, exactly. And this is only using two of the 16 00:11:32.560 --> 00:11:38.800 channels. So if you had like a hugely parallel bus, then you can decode them 00:11:36.880 --> 00:11:43.279 all. So like this would be awful to, you know, count on your own and see one 0 01 00:11:41.680 --> 00:11:48.959 kind of thing. Right. Right. Right. Right. Cuz this is each of our characters here. Yeah. Yeah. It's also a 00:11:46.880 --> 00:11:53.600 touch screen. Right. Yep. You mentioned that. So we're back to our first signal 00:11:51.040 --> 00:11:59.600 here. This is a capital P. On the bottom, we have just our our clock that 00:11:57.120 --> 00:12:02.240 tells us when to sample a zero or one. And then on the top, we've got our 00:12:00.800 --> 00:12:08.240 signal. So, what we're looking at here then is our first clock telling us to 00:12:05.680 --> 00:12:13.360 sample. That's a zero. Then on our second sampling point, that's a one. On 00:12:10.959 --> 00:12:19.680 our third, it's a zero. On our fourth, it's a one. And for the last four, it's 00:12:15.920 --> 00:12:22.560 all zeros. So, this one would be 0 1 0 1 00:12:19.680 --> 00:12:25.360 0 0 0. And that's a capital P and ASKI then. Yep. So, then this would be how 00:12:24.160 --> 00:12:31.040 you guys reverse engineered that keyboard then. Yeah. A lot of that you have hook it up and see like when things 00:12:28.560 --> 00:12:33.680 are high and low. um and trying to figure out what all those random pins 00:12:32.720 --> 00:12:40.399 were cuz there were a couple we weren't even sure what they were. And I think that's how we found out that one of the 00:12:36.320 --> 00:12:42.399 decoding um like uh chips was broken and 00:12:40.399 --> 00:12:45.920 it was just sending all zeros like so it's sending the same kind of bits but 00:12:44.160 --> 00:12:49.839 then the second four bits was always zero for all of them right that I 00:12:48.160 --> 00:12:54.800 remember that the first half of each bite was working and then the second 00:12:52.480 --> 00:12:57.760 half of each bite was broken all zero because the chip was dead and so we 00:12:56.480 --> 00:13:02.160 could see that. All right, enough of the high school electronics class demo. Let's get this hooked up to a power 00:13:00.720 --> 00:13:06.560 supply and show you guys how we actually use it. So, these probes are all just 00:13:04.320 --> 00:13:09.920 like wired into our testing equipment. Yeah. Sorry, it's not uh you can't see 00:13:07.920 --> 00:13:13.920 it, but these run into the test chamber. Okay. Um connected to connection board, 00:13:12.240 --> 00:13:18.600 which is connected to the power supply here. I can show you guys what he's got 00:13:15.440 --> 00:13:21.680 in there. Here's our second 00:13:18.600 --> 00:13:25.519 one. So, all his probes are going into 00:13:21.680 --> 00:13:27.440 this and monitoring our various voltages 00:13:25.519 --> 00:13:32.000 from the power supply. And what's really cool is Lucas painstakingly soldered our 00:13:29.839 --> 00:13:35.519 measuring points to the bottom of our PCB so that we don't have to worry about 00:13:34.000 --> 00:13:38.800 this cable length affecting our measurements. What are we looking at? 00:13:37.200 --> 00:13:43.120 So, another great part about this oscilloscope is the um the 00:13:41.040 --> 00:13:47.440 automatability of it. So, we're able to do a lot of our tests um without, you 00:13:45.920 --> 00:13:51.120 know, actually touching a lot of it. We just have to set up all the programming 00:13:49.040 --> 00:13:55.920 beforehand and then as it's testing it'll send all the commands to properly 00:13:52.720 --> 00:13:57.519 configure it um and test without us 00:13:55.920 --> 00:14:02.720 having to stand here. But we really like standing here, don't we? We love it. 00:13:59.399 --> 00:14:06.440 Yeah. And hopefully this will work. I 00:14:02.720 --> 00:14:09.519 don't know. Somebody removed the SSD. So 00:14:06.440 --> 00:14:10.800 what what it's probably fine. Oh, should 00:14:09.519 --> 00:14:15.959 we talk about some of the things that ours is optioned with? Oh, sure. Yeah. 00:14:13.279 --> 00:14:22.000 It has a one gigabit GPTS memory extension. Uh yeah. 00:14:20.160 --> 00:14:25.760 So that's one gigap points memory extension. So that's another one that's 00:14:23.360 --> 00:14:29.680 lets you capture a lot more waveforms and it's a lot of memory like we said 00:14:27.120 --> 00:14:34.079 before. Oh, for longer waveforms. Yeah. Okay. And more of the same. So if you're 00:14:32.079 --> 00:14:37.839 measuring a really like we're measuring that thing of saying PSU circuit that 00:14:36.079 --> 00:14:42.320 was repeating like once a second or whatever, right? And so that allows to 00:14:39.519 --> 00:14:46.639 capture like multiple samples of it and you could average them or see if there's 00:14:43.839 --> 00:14:51.920 any like aberrations, right? So for diagnosis of say for example like like 00:14:49.120 --> 00:14:54.720 an an erratic error that only shows up once in a while that could be really 00:14:53.519 --> 00:15:00.720 useful then. Yeah, exactly. This is great for that and a lot of oscilloscope is used for that where um like 99% of 00:14:59.279 --> 00:15:03.839 your signals will be exact right waveform but you want to capture the one 00:15:02.320 --> 00:15:06.880 or two that is that isn't the intermittent problem. They call them 00:15:05.360 --> 00:15:10.480 like runs or whatever. Yeah. or it's like maybe it stayed high for too long 00:15:08.560 --> 00:15:16.519 or there's some kind of glitch. You know, there's a lot of people that find 00:15:12.160 --> 00:15:16.519 that word pretty offensive, right? 00:15:16.639 --> 00:15:23.760 This is our brown out test that we do for PSU circuits. Um, we basically just 00:15:22.160 --> 00:15:28.079 turn off the input power to the power supply for a very short period and see 00:15:26.160 --> 00:15:31.199 if the power supply survives. So, we can see here it's doing a lot of stuff on 00:15:29.519 --> 00:15:35.199 its own. It basically just configured itself so that it's got all the right 00:15:33.120 --> 00:15:38.959 measurements set up and it'll capture this waveform afterwards. So, okay, 00:15:37.760 --> 00:15:44.320 there we see here. So, what we're looking at here then is AC power going 00:15:41.839 --> 00:15:49.880 doing its thing, right? And then we're looking at Whoopsy Doodles. No AC power, 00:15:46.720 --> 00:15:52.000 but our 12vt on the power supply was 00:15:49.880 --> 00:15:56.880 uninterrupted. And what's our purple one here? Uh, yes, 3.3 volt. 3.3 volt. 00:15:55.040 --> 00:15:59.839 There's 5 volt and the power good signal. So that's the one from the power 00:15:58.560 --> 00:16:03.519 supply that's telling the motherboard and the computer like power is still 00:16:01.600 --> 00:16:06.800 good. I can still guarantee that we have the right output voltages. What if we 00:16:05.360 --> 00:16:10.480 gave it a longer brown out then? Exactly. We'll proceed through this. 00:16:08.720 --> 00:16:14.560 It'll go through and it saves the waveforms. This is how we save them back 00:16:12.560 --> 00:16:18.399 to a file and we can later graph those and create large graphics from them. And 00:16:16.720 --> 00:16:21.680 eventually that power good signal is going to be like no. Yes. Yeah. 00:16:20.480 --> 00:16:27.440 Hopefully we'll capture this. You know, it's always a lottery. We're doing it live. So we can see here it's in blue so 00:16:25.199 --> 00:16:30.959 it's hard but you see it cut it cut out here and went low for a while and came 00:16:29.279 --> 00:16:34.959 back up. So for that short period the power supply was saying you know I can't 00:16:32.800 --> 00:16:39.519 guarantee 12 volts output and if we have a good motherboard that behaves the way 00:16:36.880 --> 00:16:43.519 that it should it should say hey I don't have good power that'll shut down the 00:16:41.600 --> 00:16:47.040 computer. Yeah. So at that point it's like it's nice that it's kept the other 00:16:45.199 --> 00:16:50.320 voltages high but it's already turning off your computer because presumably 00:16:48.720 --> 00:16:53.839 that's enough for it to and this is exactly the behavior we'd want. We would 00:16:52.320 --> 00:16:57.199 want it to say, "Hey, the power's not good." before there's a major 00:16:55.600 --> 00:17:01.279 interruption to the voltage it's delivering to our components because 00:16:58.759 --> 00:17:04.799 otherwise, I mean, this is a very very small surge, but if we had a bigger 00:17:02.720 --> 00:17:09.199 surge, that could be an issue, right? Surge and just reliable things. So, it 00:17:06.640 --> 00:17:13.039 may be trying to save memory to uh like to, you know, storage or something and 00:17:11.199 --> 00:17:16.079 it might corrupt that or have some unpredictable effects. We'll see if 00:17:14.559 --> 00:17:21.360 we'll get one where it just fully drops out. We can see there's already little 00:17:18.160 --> 00:17:23.839 dips in the voltage, right? Oh, okay. 00:17:21.360 --> 00:17:28.319 So, it really didn't like 25 milliseconds of power being gone. About 00:17:26.000 --> 00:17:32.320 22 milliseconds or 24. I'm not sure exactly which one, but yeah, you can see 00:17:29.679 --> 00:17:36.240 it blips in the 12 volts and it just completely drops out, but the power good 00:17:34.559 --> 00:17:39.919 line dropped before that. Now, a lot of our testing is focused on the ATX 00:17:38.160 --> 00:17:44.000 specification and making sure that power supplies adhere to it. Have you 00:17:41.600 --> 00:17:48.160 encountered any that do not meet the ATX specification? Yeah, a lot of the power 00:17:46.000 --> 00:17:52.000 supplies will not quite meet in some places like oh maybe it's in the dynamic 00:17:50.240 --> 00:17:56.559 tests it doesn't quite meet the voltage regulations or one of the timings off. 00:17:54.640 --> 00:18:00.240 Um but a lot of them it's not a huge deal and it could be a part of our how 00:17:58.799 --> 00:18:04.160 our setup test setup is different from the ATX. Got it. So is that why we don't 00:18:02.240 --> 00:18:07.840 necessarily publish every result that we record right now cuz we're kind of 00:18:05.520 --> 00:18:11.120 waiting to make sure that it's on the up and up that we're in we're confident in 00:18:09.600 --> 00:18:17.280 it and we don't make any claims of like full ATX certification with that. So um 00:18:14.799 --> 00:18:20.320 yeah it's just you know indicative and one of the things that we really care 00:18:18.960 --> 00:18:24.480 about a lot though and that we are publishing now is any failures in safety 00:18:23.039 --> 00:18:29.200 mechanisms that are built into power supplies because you know I don't think 00:18:26.960 --> 00:18:34.240 that most people are going to look at a slight blip in the 12vt rail when they 00:18:31.360 --> 00:18:38.000 have a 15 millisecond power outage and go I'm not going to buy that power 00:18:36.160 --> 00:18:43.200 supply but we've had some that will just outright fail under an overcurren 00:18:40.480 --> 00:18:47.520 scenario where we are drawing more power than the power supply expects. Yeah. 00:18:45.200 --> 00:18:50.520 Which we don't expect it to be able to provide more power than it's rated for, 00:18:49.200 --> 00:18:54.480 but we do expect it not to catastrophically die. And we have had a 00:18:52.960 --> 00:18:58.000 couple die during this test where we're just shutting it off for brief periods 00:18:56.000 --> 00:19:01.760 of time. Can't explain those ones, but cuz it's not super ownorous, but uh 00:19:00.400 --> 00:19:04.880 yeah, like this is something that a power supply should be able to handle. 00:19:03.440 --> 00:19:10.080 Yeah, we do it a lot of times and we do it at 0 degrees, 20°, and 40°, but it 00:19:08.000 --> 00:19:13.120 should be, you know, fairly fairly survivable, I think. Do you have any 00:19:11.520 --> 00:19:17.280 more tests for us to look at? Yeah, we also have the timing test that we use the oscilloscope for. And I think 00:19:15.919 --> 00:19:21.039 that's, you know, more interesting than the brown one. When you say timing, what 00:19:19.600 --> 00:19:25.520 what do we want to know? What how does the timing matter of a power supply? I 00:19:22.799 --> 00:19:28.559 mean, it's DC. There's no signaling. There's no waveforms even. There is 00:19:27.039 --> 00:19:32.799 signaling. So, there's a couple signal channels on that like the power good and 00:19:30.559 --> 00:19:36.640 the power on, but there's specific time they have for how long it takes for the 00:19:34.400 --> 00:19:41.280 voltage to rise to a certain level or to drop or delays between those. So this 00:19:39.440 --> 00:19:46.559 configures the oscilloscope for a turn on waveform which we get here. So do we 00:19:43.760 --> 00:19:49.919 want to go from 0 to 12 volts really quickly or do we want it to be slow? 00:19:48.480 --> 00:19:56.080 What do we want? I believe there is a maximum time I can I don't know the exact timing now but the maximum time 00:19:52.720 --> 00:19:58.480 for 0 to 90% of the voltage spec. So of 00:19:56.080 --> 00:20:03.039 12 volts 5 volts and 3.3 volts. Got it. And then there is also a spec for the 00:20:00.080 --> 00:20:08.000 delay between them going high and the um power good signal going high. it'll save 00:20:05.520 --> 00:20:13.360 this waveform and then reconfigure so that it can um save the turn off 00:20:10.600 --> 00:20:16.880 waveform which is also important in for like brownout and stuff. So this one the 00:20:15.280 --> 00:20:20.480 first one will be basically just flat lines once it's saved because there's 00:20:18.799 --> 00:20:25.280 very little load on the power supply. Yeah. Um but future ones um do actually 00:20:23.520 --> 00:20:30.960 drop and you can see them there. It takes about two days to fully test a 00:20:28.400 --> 00:20:35.679 power supply. And if we have a failure, we always obtain another unit and fully 00:20:34.000 --> 00:20:40.320 test that additional unit to see if it was just a one-off bad unit. What's 00:20:38.080 --> 00:20:45.120 interesting to me though is so far we haven't had a lot of bad units that 00:20:42.400 --> 00:20:49.280 weren't just a bad power supply. All but I believe one of the ones that have 00:20:47.120 --> 00:20:52.880 failed, the second unit has failed as well. Yeah, there's one or two that the 00:20:51.679 --> 00:20:57.520 first one failed and the second one survived, but so far it's been Yeah, they both die and often run on similar 00:20:56.080 --> 00:21:01.520 tests. So, here's another one. So, this is trying to turn on with a load and 00:20:59.600 --> 00:21:04.720 obviously it failed that. Um, a lot of power supplies do even though I think 00:21:03.200 --> 00:21:08.880 it's in the spec, the ATX spec that have to be able to turn on with a load. Um, 00:21:06.640 --> 00:21:13.200 they just can't because you know it's not typical. I guess your GPU isn't 00:21:11.120 --> 00:21:16.640 pulling power before it has, you know, a voltage. We can also use this for ripple 00:21:15.200 --> 00:21:21.120 testing of a power supply. Is that correct? Yes. Yeah, we do that same. Can 00:21:18.480 --> 00:21:26.240 you explain like on five why ripple matters? Because a perfect DC voltage 00:21:23.760 --> 00:21:30.080 output like 12 volts, it'll be perfectly flat, but because we're in the real 00:21:28.159 --> 00:21:34.240 world, there's capacitance, inductance, lows, everything else, it's not going to 00:21:32.400 --> 00:21:37.440 be flat. Um, there's some ripple to that. We can see that. We can see it. 00:21:36.400 --> 00:21:43.360 Little little bit of noise in there in the line there. Why does excessive ripple matter? because the components 00:21:41.600 --> 00:21:47.760 later in your like in your computer are expecting a really constant um supply 00:21:46.159 --> 00:21:52.640 and something they can predict and you know operate um consistently on and they 00:21:50.799 --> 00:21:56.559 further regulated down to other voltages like CPU like 1.2 volts and stuff but 00:21:55.039 --> 00:22:00.480 even those regulators want a really consistent input voltage. Got it. So it 00:21:58.799 --> 00:22:04.960 just helps with general stability and reliability. Could it improve longevity 00:22:02.720 --> 00:22:08.799 to have low ripple? Uh yeah it'll put less load on the capacitors over time. 00:22:07.280 --> 00:22:12.799 Put less energy in and out of them. Here I have another way from where this one actually went down. So this is another 00:22:11.360 --> 00:22:17.360 one. So during the timing test, we can measure how long it is between the power 00:22:15.200 --> 00:22:20.559 like it turning off and the um power supply shutting down and how long it 00:22:19.039 --> 00:22:24.720 takes for each of the voltages to drop. This one's at like a 10% or 20% load. So 00:22:23.440 --> 00:22:30.559 this is the whole thing where you hit the power switch on something and it takes a minute for it to like for the 00:22:28.559 --> 00:22:33.840 LEDs to you know Yeah, exactly. So that' be like for a small load and you'll see 00:22:32.240 --> 00:22:38.159 with like even larger loads, it's almost instantaneous the the voltage drops. Oh, 00:22:36.320 --> 00:22:44.640 one more thing. Actually, we've alluded to it, but I don't think we've explicitly said what one of these 00:22:41.960 --> 00:22:47.919 run-of-the-mill benchtop oscilloscopes is worth. It's a bit of a range 00:22:46.159 --> 00:22:54.960 depending on options, but it's about 20K to 50K US, 00:22:50.559 --> 00:22:58.559 right? Yeah. Go and buy one now. Yeah. 00:22:54.960 --> 00:23:02.600 Use our affiliate code. Lucas from the 00:22:58.559 --> 00:23:05.679 lab, everyone. And the Roden Sports MX05 00:23:02.600 --> 00:23:08.960 series. Subscribe to ShortCircuit. 00:23:05.679 --> 00:23:08.960 and power supply circuit.