and we are live welcome to the lan show
you guys it's got tech news it's got guests it's got everything except some
kind of a coherent strategy today because i'm going to be totally honest with you guys
okay one thing first first things first hi justine hi welcome to the show thanks
for having me yeah it's a it's absolutely my pleasure this is actually
our first time meeting even though she's been here all day we actually have
hardly interacted i was like are you sure he's here did i get tricked
it's like some warehouse that i just showed up to is this how i die
at the very back of a working complex
very end okay in my def okay it's busy it's not
the least sketchy area no it's not it's i mean wait
it's not the most sketchy area
it's also not the least sketchy starbucks on the ways i felt at home
right um so she's here and then we've also got
steven from gamersnexus and riley slash keys from ncis tech tips because
luke and i along with our other special guests um i don't know if i'm going to
bring you guys on the show because you guys are getting plenty of camera time but get on here and kind of say hi oh
are they being all camera shy oh you guys are so bashable you guys have
literally had a piece of glass in your face all week
um do we leave now oh wow look at that
it's rod take my spot i can't have this shirt on nothing uh yeah yeah it's okay
yeah it's okay really yeah yeah it's okay it's okay
it's rod and bob what's up guys did Linus and luke just
film another week long show with these guys
why do we keep inviting you here um so our celebrity judges were justine
stephen and riley and our co-competitors
were rod and bob stay tuned because tech showdown um it'll be
i forget what i'm allowed to call them now uh whatever the tech showdown videos
that are going to be coming soon are going to be totally unlike previous tech
showdowns it's going to be pretty flippin sick
so um right now it's showing viewers xero
which usually i have the twitch chat up it's possible we are streaming to no one
it's also entirely possible that it's not reporting correctly
gonna find out what's going on you know what happens
i pretty much walked off of the set onto
here not pretty much literally that is exactly what happened and uh
and i didn't have a lot of time to kind of set everything up correctly so you'll
have to bear with me here notification that it's live oh that's good
yeah yeah yeah we're live there are people watching it's all good okay so
thanks guys uh so stay tuned for that and why don't we jump into our oh intro
for the week boop well usually we tease some topics
oh yeah normally we tease some time whatever we've got crazy guests we don't
need topics you could sit here and talk about anything
prepare some of the best shows have no news
that's true
right now you know
all right functionality is a big issue sponsors for the show today
and let's get started so
the original article here is from tom's guide i'm going to go ahead and throw
that up but the word on the street
is when this click you know works at some
point it's a word that i'm pretty excited about the iphone 8 is the
world's fastest phone to go along with
my world's slowest wi-fi right now
apparently not even close did you see
six core processors do you see this coming i uh no but i did see a bunch of
reviews of people doing speed tests even comparing the eight to the note eight
which was incredible because the note 8 definitely did lag behind yep yeah like
specifically if we look at 3d mark the iphone 8 62 08 plus 64 000 note 8 you
just referenced 39 000. yup i mean it's
one of those things i i i got a lot of flack from my note 8 review people
didn't really like it they said i didn't really give it enough credit um but one
of my key points was not that it was a bad phone at all i said it's a great
phone it's probably the productivity king if you have any use for the stylus
whatsoever oh i have it right here actually there you go and i being a huge
iphone fan too i was quite surprised how much i really like
this have you watched movies on it um i watch netflix okay so any 21x9 like
ultra wide screen content it felt a little bit was it wasn't ultra wide but
it was still it felt a little bit strange because it is a little bit i
don't know that's rounded yeah i mean that too i'm
not going to complain because i mean i watch stuff on planes all the time so
that's where i consume most of my content so i'm like this is a step up from the back of an airplane uh but yeah
i mean and i think cameras too are something that is what people are mostly
into most normal person who is going to go get their phone they just want us to
take incredible photos to share out yeah and you know even getting a chance to
see it at the apple event i mean in the gold i'm getting so excited
this is like what i live for but in comparison to the x that's what
i'm going to be interested to see because the hype around the eight is way
less than previous years and there were tons of people that were talking about there were no lines
like usual but i feel like that'll be way different for the actor oh the x is
going to be a completely different story because and don't take this the wrong way it
doesn't have to be a derogatory term but that's the one the zombies are lining up
for yeah i will be there like if i was
with my undead bells on
um and and it's just it's it's one of those things where anyway so back to the
back to the note eight one of my criticisms one of my key criticisms was
that every previous note had something
really different really killer about it and i feel like apple
killed that with the iphone x but they didn't do that with the face right no
the 8 is the most boring phone of all time it's essentially a 7s can you
believe they're still using the same shell as the 6
no which is kind of crazy i mean they tried to get away with it by saying it's
the glass back which it does look really good like i like that look that's going
back to like the iphone 4 when they first introduced that which was i
love it before i still have an iphone 4 actually on my nightstand it's a great
look you ipod it right basically uh yeah yeah yeah i just use it when i need like
if i'm going to somewhere where like i might get mugged or whatever
and i but i want a phone i just take my iphone 4. people are like give me your
phone and be like sure well clearly you don't have much love
for it if you're going to give it up in the street well come on it's worth less
than my life i'll say that much to add some more stats to this before we
keep on going uh in geekbench 4 the iphone 8 was 54 faster than the galaxy
note 8 and in just four percent 54 and
just in standard media encoding uh i don't remember exactly what was it was a
two minute 4k video yeah encoded the iphone 8 finished in 42 seconds the note
8 took more than three minutes and the galaxy s8 plus took more than four
minutes so what that tells us is two things number one is that the iphone 8
is hella fast and number two is that
they are actually walking the walk when it comes to
GPU computing and CPU computing and marrying them together yeah because AMD
has been talking about that since the acquisition of ati back in
what was it steven would know this was it 2008 what uh ati acquisition yeah
that's all right yeah so whatever about 10 years ago
since then AMD has been talking about how the GPU is going to be this
fundament fusion they called it you were not going to be able to tell the
difference between a CPU doing something in a GPU doing something you were just
going to click go on a web page or you were going to
click encode on a video or a warp
stabilize in a in a video editing application
and it was just going to use whichever one it used or some mixture of the two
and we were going to treat the GPU like like more
CPU cores and programmers were going to get into it and it never happened but
this is one of those infuriating things for the non-apple folks out there
where apple takes an idea that everybody else has been talking about for all this
freaking time and then actually does it and that's
classic i mean you know being a huge apple fan i
think i get so much crap from the rest of you guys which you know i i
and for fair for fair reasons
but you know i mean what apple is good at is taking all the things that everyone has been doing really really
well and then they make it a widespread thing for everyone to enjoy and easy to
use like during the apple event there's a few things i know wireless charging
was one of them for me where i was like thank god they're doing it fine i don't
know everyone will do it exactly finally and i'm i was so afraid
that just completely unnecessarily they were going to make it some other they
were going to make it proprietary me too i was like no i was
i was sure of it but you know what i think we actually do
have like lackluster but present adoption of
the technology broadly enough i think we have that to
thank for apple kind of going okay this has enough momentum now that we don't
need to absolutely break all the things for no apparent reason yeah and i
thought they might have switched to usbc for the x but they didn't i was hoping
that they would i was kind of hoping that they would as well um and i was
really hoping like a lot of devices have a type c port but if you go and transfer
photos off of them they're actually running at usb 2 speeds and i know that
apple actually did have a usb 3 lightning connector on the ipad pro as
of i believe the first gen um so i'll be interested to see if the lightning
connector on the x is at least usb 3. that would be sick
i just noticed you called it the x um
sorry it's 10 i know and i do that because i use final cut x which is also
final cut 10. right and i've been calling it that since the beginning so
it's i'm so sorry but then apple's thing is like os x is not osx it's os 10. so
so there they have a long enough history of x's 10 that we're just supposed to
ignore that all the other phones are called 7 and not vii well where did the
iphone 9 go yeah that i have a theory
i think the iphone 9 is coming next september that's actually a brilliant
idea that i didn't even think about so the iphone 9 is coming and it's going to
still be the like step down it's going to be like the the new se
and then the x 2 or the 11 or whatever
whatever they end up going with in terms of this series naming or the x mark ii
you know what that i hear again tinfoil hat i think they're just going to call
it the iphone 10 again next year i think they're just going to call it the same
thing because they've done it with every other bloody product line if they actually add like mark ii that's kind of
cool but they don't yeah i know that's the issue you said mark two and i was
like that's pretty late 2018. no the naming connections
are a little bit off i mean technically the the eight should be a 7s but i mean
if i'm not mistaken i believe it's the same a11 chip that is also in the eight
and the x is that correct i believe so yeah yeah so
i don't know i mean they're still sharing a lot of that same technology and i think it's going to be like do you
want facial recognition and do you want to give up that touch id button i don't
want to give up touch id i love touch id i don't think my parents would either so
i feel like it's there's a different kind of generation gap and i don't know
it's going to be interesting to see when the x comes out with what people kind of
gravitate towards i think that's part of the reason we didn't get a new shell for
the eight is that now it's the value phone yeah yeah yeah in the in much the
same way that like you um you know if you buy an se it's that
iphone 5 shell yeah so the value phone
is like like it's one of those things where
apple it's status it's a status symbol where if you get
the jet black one everyone knows you're a mega baller and bought the top of the
line and then you put a case on it this is
terrible but in much the same way you don't even
know there's no way you could even tell it's unless you look i think apple wants
people who buy an eight to feel like last gen chumps
a little bit for at a glance for it to not look any different for
sure yeah i mean because they even rotated the camera right no that's on
the x the x has the rotated camera yeah that's what i'm saying yeah so it's like
extremely recognizably different yes it's really i don't think that was for a
reason it could have been yeah i'm not actually sure that'd be
interesting to see i'd like to see like an ifixit tear down or something so
it's killer fast which really surprised me
because apple stubbornly stuck to two core designs for the longest time when
the entire rest of the industry was going like
no put all the cores into the phones even though historically it hasn't made
a huge difference to performance in the applications that most people are using
but if i had to guess i would say this uh this this utilization of both CPU and
GPU and this addition of multiple cores is really apple's way of saying okay
look we think that people are going to need all these course for the kinds of
workloads that are coming to phones in the near future and if it's if it's
apple they're pretty good at predicting that now i had people approach me out of
the blue and say can you believe so much of the keynote was about this stupid
like facial emoji thing oh that it well they spent a lot of time on the watch
which okay yeah because who cares about the watch
no offense okay but to be fair to okay listen
you you will have your entire you don't even need to have your phone like you can
have lte on your wrist granted the battery life is not very good i think there you might
have talk time of like an hour but the fact that you don't need your phone you
can literally do okay don't i don't wanna don't don't you don't
don't i'll stand up you're gonna be out of the frame
i don't care i mean i don't think it's for everybody but i think that that is somewhat
revolutionary in the fact that you really don't need this i don't need
anything i can go for a walk i don't and you can go for a walk but don't go far
don't go far yeah yeah sorry brandon it's because justine's a little bit
further back here if you if you if you scooch up then we're good
there we go and we're getting rowdy and like don't you start doing watch us
look we're talking about the watch the watch it has the potential okay i
have a mark zero or whatever i have the original one and my issue with it is that it's a
development kit it is not a finished product it is a showcase of what they
want the apple watch to do with a piss-poor battery and no ability to have
the actual time showing all the time
well at least i know what time it is it sometimes takes a little while yeah but
i and i do think that of course this is going to be the first gen of lte
so i mean the joke in my review is that it works great if you're sitting there
and if you don't mind whoever you're with to know that you're like
yeah yo what time it is but like okay imagine this like so in my review i
bring up like what if you're in the middle of an awkward sexual encounter you're on your back you know you want to
know what time it is it literally doesn't work well you can't find out who
you're talking you can't find out when it's going to be over i mean like i love my apple watch
but does it have the red dot on it because if not it's not lte and i need
to leave and is it ceramic i need to know
no i think i think it makes a little bit more sense maybe in the states because
you guys can get companion sims fairly easily i don't think it's coming up here
is it it's not yet really okay and i think in europe it's less common too so
so if i came here i actually wouldn't be able to use it so
let's talk about the bump okay so last last apple topic for now but let's talk
about the bump on the watch then um they made a big song and dance about how
they used the same frame with all the new tech packages two pieces of paper thicker
at the crystal okay where's the end point of that are they
just going to keep are they just going to keep doing this and just keep making the bump bigger but i honestly i looked
at it and if and then i put it on and i could not tell the difference i mean you
were like two pieces of paper what it seems like it would be very hard to
notice you would not be able to notice because you already can feel this when it's on your wrist but yeah yeah you're
not the two pieces of paper you're fine yeah but if you want to find some more
reasons to hate it oh oh that's no we don't have time for
that that's pretty uh that's pretty easy for me to do
uh hold on a second um
let me just see if there's anything else interesting in here
yeah oh no i don't like it oh okay this is
off macrumors.com i have some bad news were you did you know this yet
i mean we've kind of all been assuming it since they announced it
iphone 10 production faces further delays we'll start in mid-october
okay i've got two questions for you do you think apparently final production
of the iphone 10 has yet to even start
okay i mean pre-orders are starting the
third or 27th wait pre-orders are the third and it's supposed to ship the 27th
so if you had to guess what do you think it is
what's the supply chain issue yeah hmm
do you think okay do you think it's that they can't get enough or do you think
it's that they need too much i guess it's sort of two different ways of
looking at it so they i mean realistically they obviously made one
they had it on the stage like they may have been waiting though to see how the
eight did you think so potentially i mean because it's the screen
you think it's the screen are they getting the screen from samsung yeah so they could also be limiting the display
i need to i don't know if there's not a ton of room yeah i know well no don't scoot over more because you're going to
go into yeah then you'll be in there i'll stay on the edge look we aren't set
up for guests very well we we're like this mic is in like a terrible position
there's a way better way to do this setup and i have not been approved yet
to fix it you haven't no i asked you two and you're like that's way too expensive
it's way too expensive it's like four of a hundred four five hundred bucks yeah i
know we're not should we start a gofundme yeah
that's the answer to any stupid thing you can also just take this mic and like
probably get Jake to 3d print something yeah that would probably work that would
probably work yeah well there's also some people that were talking about they weren't 100 sure if the facial
recognition was ready so it could also be a software thing that might have been
a response yeah to what happened on stage but what happened on stage was
that phone had been restarted and anytime you have to restart it you have to add the pin yeah um so that was that
was not a facial recognition wow someone's pissed about that yeah so i
mean it could be a combination of software not ready and also supply
demand for the screens which is very realistic yeah this article also covered
that the iphone 8 is not getting as much interest from customers as previous
smartphones launched this fall and suggest that there could be many apple
fans holding out for the iphone 10. yeah really yeah wow
or you just get the eight and then get the ten and then you know and just keep
them commit you they're like you have a problem you don't yeah and then you'll just you could just you could just rub
them on your body every day well that was the surprise try to absorb the
appleness because my sister today she's like should i go buy a phone i was like oh you're never gonna get one she's like
well walked into best buy i got one and just i was like well that was easy so
i'm not sure right the supply i mean people like are still getting them same
day the lines weren't very long but the pre-orders was very smooth and normally
all of the apple pre-orders is a disaster so maybe things just worked well for the pre-orders it is a
it is a real departure from standard
apple operating procedure for them to roll out a slide that basically says
it's everything you love about the iphone 7 but better
for for the iphone 8. yeah nothing they
didn't say magical they didn't say revolutionary they didn't say
because it's not though so but usually they find a way to make it seem like
that that's true they use plastic so it's unapologetic but they were saving
that for the x 10 10. i guess so but it's just like they still need to sell
iphone 8s yeah i bet they probably won't have that
much of an issue yeah probably not probably not and
they'll be able to slow sell them over time so they'll move them eventually yeah
all right so our next topic um thank you and thank you i'll talk to you soon yes
once we're done the show our next topic is definitely
right in steven's wheelhouse so get on in here
all right this is fun how's it going
pretty good do you want to introduce yourself uh sure i'm steve from cameras nexus i
think that pretty much wraps it up
we do technical hardware reviews and analysis all right speaking of technical hardware
reviews and analysis for a quick second we've referenced
steve and gamer's nexus quite a few times on WAN Show if you've heard us talk about things like the Noctua color
controversy and a few other things you guys followed up yeah that one was
interesting yeah so if you guys want to see stuff like that one thing that i
really like on your guys's channel is how you'll dive into like how something
was made yeah and kind of sometimes rip
accompany a new one a little bit but yeah a little we yeah yeah
like it it's a fine line to walk right yeah yeah
yeah but i i like the attention of detail anyways well liked by consumers
you get a mixed reaction on the other side of things if you mention uh gamer's
nexus so rumored coffee lake pricing okay so okay
now i don't know how much you know or don't
know and you don't know how much i know or don't know about coffee lake so all
we can go based on is what we are reading off of this page in front of us
which is copied off of pchub online dot
pl or awesome awesomedashtable.com
okay so this is what we're going on this is all the information that we have but
there is some good information in here so it tells us how many cores it's
rumored to have uh what the TDP it's rumored to be will be but tells us the
rumor TDP tells us rumored cash tells us socket
rumored and it tells us clock speed rumors as well
so apparently the core i7 8700k might
end up landing about 400 as a rumored to be six core 12 thread
processor at 3.7 to 4.7 gigahertz and um
whatever 95 watt TDP is that too high
does that kill it is that usd that's a conversion to usd now
that's so here's the thing we were talking with our patreon backers a little bit about
this the problem i have with this see that guy just dropped the patreon plug in
there that's not what that is
i've been watching you a while man
you got that in there right at the beginning too so this guy's seen a
youtube retention graph so yeah talk to them and the thing is
it is evolution for Intel to go to 6 and 12 right that's definitely a movement
but if you're moving in that direction and then sticking a similar price on it
to what you had on previous high-end i7s well like the low end of
the hedt cpus i don't it doesn't it's not really that
much of an evolution so does this seem that's the price does this smell like uh
if that pricing is correct which i don't know if it is but if it is does this
smell a little bit like 6950x yeah well so here's the two more cores
yeah oh by the way it costs 700 more
than the eight core we had last gen oh by the way there's an eight core
and enjoy one thing i can say about price because
i've said this before we had a
an undisclosed manufacturer talk to us not long ago about pricing targets and i
was told ten to twenty more than the existing i7
there okay there it's disruptive right there it's potentially a rising
clobberer i mean you have you got this word right
on your shirt here gamers right would gamers have a reason to buy a ryzen
processor if the 8700k is 10 20 bucks
more than a 7700k there's you know there's a whole lot of caveats in that
question how does it overclock it is the platform stable but let's assume
it's a it's a reasonably well thought out Intel launch let's assume turbo
boost up to 4.7 works as expected
let's assume that everything is goes well
should you even buy a ryzen if you only play games and you're
looking at spending about the same amount of money then probably not
if it's a hundred dollars more than an r7 1700
and you do things like actual content creation that is CPU
accelerated not just GPU accelerated yeah then you should definitely be
looking at ryzen so uh i i think it comes down to a lot of
things you know there are a lot of people with the ryzen launch where
people who are content creators are realizing
there's so much performance i've left on the table yep and they can really
accelerate it now and people who aren't content creators but want to see AMD
succeed yeah are saying i can multitask but there's a difference between
having twitch and your music open and playing a game yeah and
actual like what you do or what we do production yeah so
it depends like at 408 dollars i think that's a little
too much now the chart also has some expected pricing
for other processors and it has the um
it has the 8600k so that's the rumored six core six thread at 286.
so we could be seeing this particular listing inflated on the i7 because
that's the most popular we know from our amazon sales affiliate link stuff
we know it's by far Intel's most popular channel processor anyway
um but if we're looking at let's say the price gap is more like 100 which is what
it normally is so let's say that one is more like
you know 380 something at 286 again the gamer
question and the rumor is that the 8400
will also be a six core part
i mean that according to previous
asterisk 400 parts should be like a 235
to 45 dollar part yeah and again it's
not really it's not a linear evolution if the price increases yes
it moves the bar so currently i5s and we said this in our
review of the r5s there's not a lot of reason to buy an i5
right now the i7 still holds on really well yep but you look at r5s and there's
there's actual gains there there's gains in frame times and specific games
where you don't really get that change with an i7 because already got all the threads
so yeah i mean i
i would need to see i5s stay the same price if they're increasing core count
or come down with the current core count to be
viable to me still i think part of the issue here and it's not gonna make up
like a hundred and fifty dollars but part of the issue here is that we're
going for another currency and converting back to usd and it's not just
dollar conversion there's different pricings in different
regions there's
so they could be trying to they could be trying to convince stupid
customers to pre-order based on this pricing that will actually drop on
launch day once availability is real and pricing is real and everyone gets their
listings up yeah um some include like vat and stuff too yeah
yeah so this yeah this could have like 90 included so so we'll take it we'll take it for
what it is a rumor based on incomplete
data at best and i would say to add some value to the rumor like my look at it is
if it is 400 to 410 for the i7 that's kind of too much it might be a good
performer yeah but that's more than i want to see if it's like 10 to 20 more
than the current i7s that falls in line with Intel's current price creep where
every generation they've very slowly increased it dollars at a time yeah so
that's that's kind of they really do play a long game don't they do man yeah
it's like sometimes you look at what they're doing you go
but then other times you look at what they're doing you go yeah
um speaking of rumors with not a ton of credibility this one's from wccf tech
oh apparently this came out of eurocom
um it is rumored and this is again this is very early rumors that the upcoming
10 nanometer ice lake will bump the core count from six to
eight and then the thread count from 12 to 16
to match AMD's ryzen 7 and that'll be second half of 2018 so the timing sounds
right because Intel does refresh every year even if they don't really have
anything to show us can you um i you or i could have guessed that
though they're gonna have a processor next year yeah but i wouldn't have i
actually wouldn't have guessed they'd go eight core i would have said they might not bother
well i was kind of expecting eight core for coffee lake so
yeah yeah because i don't know like it takes a while to make a CPU so it's not
like coffee like is a response to ryzen
specifically as a piece of silicon there might be marketing attached to it that
is but yeah there might be pricing attached that is right like we might have seen a six core
coffee lake as like a 449 mainstream
processor to blur the lines even further
right yes i don't know i don't really know much about isolate i don't know anything
officially and i haven't followed rumors yeah well i think it's pretty damn early
don't the rumors get overwhelming at a point i try to stay away from them right and
we're so flung out like that's something i've been saying about wayne show we've
been covering rumors of the same AMD farts for like
over half a year like i think we're like nine months in now man okay tin foil hat
damn AMD rumors
are they actually leaks or are they buzz
generation created intentionally by AMD
or a company associated with it by AMD
or a company associated with them and there's two facets to the answer if
you think it's people at AMD do you think it is sanctioned or do you think
it is like guerrilla guerrilla marketing from people at AMD
who like think they have hot [ __ ] and most people know about it they have
their own gorilla marketing from uh red team plus is that it yeah yeah
that's i mean that kind of fills that role already i don't know like i've only
ever had one person approach me and say here's some
leaked information like that's happened one time
uh and it wasn't really anything to work with like it was it was clearly a
please post this we need something yeah so it wasn't like our ihs's are soldered
right but it wasn't from a big three like major engineering
company so i don't i like there's so i don't
think they would need to manufacture rumors it seems like the community kind
of does that well enough so
i don't know all right fair enough so my theory is that it's gorilla
because i mean if you've spent any time in taiwan or around taiwanese people
working in taiwanese companies you'll know that the the way the industry is
inbred is actually unfathomable from the
outside like the way people flit around from company to company sometimes even
landing back at the same one multiple times
everybody knows everybody
and taiwan is a small place
literally yeah a small place
and the thing about it is that even if you look at companies like well you could you could kind of go well AMD's
not headquartered in taiwan now there's Intel
sure but you got to understand if you want to build a motherboard for a secret
you're working with people in taiwan and china and probably hong kong there's people in
taiwan who have spec sheets for ice lake
based on what Intel is expecting like now like they're thinking about it
they're working people who make retention the the actual like socket retention kit
probably already know or will soon yep yeah
so yeah i mean and and you would think that loyalty or
uh legal uh like action ability at that level is
so far removed that it'd be easier to leak something
yep yeah rather than getting legal to sign off on something right i mean we've had
like i've had really frank conversations with uh okay i'll say with a big three
company that i criticized recently i'll say that so one of them so
one of them um
and the conversation went look you guys have an opportunity right now to turn
this criticism into a huge pr win
all you have to do is come on stream with me
and talk about it talk about how
you did something maybe not wrong but not
in the consumer's best interests hide from questions and say sorry
and commit to do better that's what you have to do you can take this thing that
we can hopefully both agree if we both live on planet earth and drink the same
water and eat the same food and live in the same reality that we can both agree
happened that's questionable
and you guys can just take it head on
and the email thread is actually quite long like it's a couple dozen replies
and there was a conference call that did take place where we talked about it and
then it went dead so i got killed by a sea
level or a vp level or legal
and we're just not going to talk about it apparently that happens a lot with legal i found
yeah like going to for example a recent example
the statement on vega pricing and being exceptionally ambiguous right
there was a reason for that and it's a legal reason really so well yeah but not
like we're going to get probably bound to it yeah like a certain degree a
preemptive typical like legal being overly concerned about specific phrasing
yeah and that kills a lot of conversations yeah yeah
it's really fun which is unfortunate because like if you got people on this
either any kind of corporate representative to actually answer harder questions
whether or not the the answer is actually good yeah that'd still be a big
thing yeah that's unfortunate okay last topic that uh that i think
should be a pretty good one for you um actually do you prefer this one or do
you want to find something else what's the other one uh hold on hold on i got
this i got this um this one
that's kind of interesting okay we're running a website so this was posted by
good bytes on the forum don't worry i know
uh but basically in a nutshell thanks to javascript which
is not to be confused with java the programming language the pirate bay
website has put code in their site that turns visiting computers into mining
machines for cryptocurrency without the user knowing so your CPU fan is just
going to like ramp up visitors visitors of the site are completely unaware of
the activity other than if you open up task manager
you'll see that your CPU is spiking to really high load maybe even reaching 100
and you may notice that your system is going to be a little bit less responsive
if you're quite familiar with how it's supposed to be running
so pirate bay not run by super ethical people so
regardless of what we say about the validity of this i think they're
going to keep doing it but your thoughts
so as i understand it after this was discovered yep they said it was a
24-hour trial yes here i got a quote you want to quote yeah the minor is being
tested for a short period approximately 24 hours as a new way to generate
revenue so they didn't mince any words no yeah they don't care
from from like i i will say that in a sort of
malicious way it is it's absolutely brilliant
to try and make money without being found out but it's so it's so wrong it's
like yeah it's it's clever but just like how the word great can be
used for evil yeah but i mean great idea the the thing with
that particular cleverness is that when you are found out and they
were it's pretty bad
you're like really digging into high it's generating more
power consumption yeah i don't think they care here's a question for you
though if you're still a pirate bay user at
this point like i don't follow the piracy scene as
closely as i once did it is no secret that i had a pirated copy of far cry
i definitely did part of the issue was that my disc one
didn't work anymore okay but there were definitely other games i didn't have a
broken disc one for let's put it that way okay
but even i know that with all the issues
they've gone through with some of the changes in terms of the personnel
running it oh yeah pirate bay is not pirate bay and i wouldn't be over there
using it so in my mind if you're still
using pirate bay are you even gonna notice the CPU spike
right are you gonna know of an alternative are you just stuck with it
yeah i if you're using it at this point i guess you're either very loyal or don't know a
better option loyal to what a logo
loyal to i know this i i like what i can get from here and i haven't looked
elsewhere i like any other brand loyalty you were
talking about apple a few minutes ago yeah i was talking about that same thing
this uh coin hine coin hive javascript
miner has definitely been used before we've talked about a similar story i
don't remember i don't remember what website i don't think it was a site at this kind of scale though no i i don't
even remember what it was like it might have been i feel like it had something to do with minecraft or
i don't know but like it's been used before for sure like here i'm bringing
up is it dot org these days i i don't know i can't remember but okay so bring
it up on alexa which is an inherently flawed yeah data collection method
apparently they're like in the top 100
sites wow yeah global rank 89.
okay if you check uh trafficestimate.com or quantcast you'll get a pretty
accurate picture yeah okay so let's throw let's throw it over
there as well um thepiratebay.org
isn't it.see um
yeah probably changes holy crap uh estimated monthly traffic visits um in
the 70 million
range per month that's bigger than uh
anandtech when it was like at its peak it was about 40 million well it's
somewhere around there but they were at 40 million page views for per month for
a while wow like just to give you a sense of scale
this also has it at an alexa rank of 136
so like i don't know how up to date any of this data is the point is
it's a big site and if you were hitting like let's say
half of the people noticed if you were hitting 25 30 million machines
for and and it runs as long as the tab is open somewhere in your browser
for even a few hours a day
even for that 24-hour period that's pretty good
yeah hit a couple million systems
yeah and you just go to sleep and wake up with well it's like it's basically
they built a botnet to mine but they don't even have to install malware on
unless you yeah right right
so it's like brilliant in that way but it's also like supremely dickish
you're in that community so like i don't know
is okay last last discussion point around this are you getting your just
desserts for pirating i don't know that i have a comment on
that yeah are you sure you're not go come on it's a land show no one holds it
anything you say i don't think it's i don't think it's necessarily just
because i think it would have to be in a different direction i think justice
relies on a fair trial blah blah blah so yeah
yeah exactly i think it's like you're in like the the under city and you're
trying to pickpocket something and someone's in your pocket too and
things are just happening so you're painting the pirate
as the downtrodden like no no no like like uh you know like
the the jedis go down to the undercity do some shady stuff sometimes too
sometimes good people go down there i'm having a hard time following your
analogy i think so i there are if you go to like the shady
part of town to buy some like lifted item
and something bad happens to you while you're there like you didn't ask for it
to happen but like nope you also could have avoided it you
probably could have avoided it but then then now we can bring up the sony root
kit thing could you have avoided it by going to
the shiny store that's well lit on the mains but then i feel like i'm buying it
then i feel bad but also from the
i don't i think there are there are valid uses for torrents for one yep
they're not as widespread probably at least not publicly known uh so there's
valid reasons to use them uh there are people who are visiting the site we've
we've used touring mm-hmm we've distributed files yeah patching
games especially way back in the day i know i think it was eve client the best
way to download it for a long time blizzard blizzard couldn't possibly have afforded dedicated servers in the early
days of wow you know
with all that starcraft money yeah with all that wow money you could turn off
the peer-to-peer downloading okay so sorry go ahead you were going to say something and then you were kind of
letting us talk over you so that you could avoid it so i'm not i'm not not
letting that happen again i wasn't trying to avoid it i think
uh there are you people may be visiting the site for
reasons that are not that don't involve torrenting or
stealing software i see yeah what if what if i'm researching a story
right and i go there and i'm a fan i feel really bad for the four people that that
affects yeah me too those are you talking about far
whenever star wars battlefront 2 came out more than a decade ago i had the disc it
didn't work because it had whatever security crap on it and so i had to
download the game but i had a valid serial number so to me that was a
justified use absolutely because i paid for it sure should work especially if
you put in the serial number like yeah yeah yeah that's that's i don't yeah
that's not even so i i don't know that it's as simple as
an eye for an eye in this instance no no it's not so so the collateral damage
argument the fact that it is not just if it is
not you know if there's no justice system yeah um so okay we're in agreement then
they're gigantic dicks right okay cool um speaking of gigantic
dicks uh riley please come join us
well i could have meant that you're really well endowed i didn't that's true
thank you so much Linus that's so nice such a nice thing to say
such an awkward thing to say um so
we're going to introduce yourself hi i'm riley i'm from a channel called ncix
tech tips apparently not you've probably never heard of it uh Linus but
we make we make videos about computers sort of like you but
sort of in the style of Linus but he's gone now yeah yeah
mentally
i feel like when you have kids you'll understand
yeah no i'm going to be calling you up for advice yeah my advice
just get the operation now okay i'm just kidding i love my kids they're wonderful
if my kids are ever watching this and then no i already told you advice
this is gonna this is gonna end up being like one of those things where you you
say look like i'm not saying you know hitler was
you know what i didn't say it i didn't say it see but where people take the
clip right yeah they take it asking for it oh you
know what actually i'm going to kick you off for a second because i'm sure you want nothing to do with our like
sponsors yeah okay see you later sorry you'll be back you'll be back in a
second i promise i'll bring you back i didn't just bring you in for that
right in front of the camera right in front of the camera brilliant um like he
makes videos so our sponsors today squarespace
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no worries genuinely thank you our second sponsor is ifixit
do they really need an introduction apparently they think they do because
they're still sponsoring the WAN Show thank you for needing a minute we we
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makes great products we use them for the last week they have great guides so if
you want to be part of the right to repair revolution or even if you don't
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gonna whether it's illegal or legal you're just gonna repair your stuff
regardless ifixit's got you covered they've got guides for how to do it
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not like a freaking chemical bath um
so how many times do you think i've shown your audience your nipples at this point
actually very well okay because i feel like i think he's gone out of his way
yeah like a number of times he's like oh here oh i can show my nipples here yeah
they're okay nipples i mean they're not like no they're not
like really disgusting or anything so yeah i'm not they're fine i've never
even one of our one of our first recruitment videos like yeah i'm just gonna wear my boxers yeah that's it like
i wrote that portion of the video where ed comes out with a laptop and he's he's
just like okay Linus are you ready for the shoot that and i'm just like in my
boxers with sunglasses on holding like two mp5s yeah and he's just like no no
no no no and i'm just like what what that seems like that seems like an ivan
move yeah mp5 so we were just trying to have something so weird that they used
to work together yeah but now it's due again wow it's so
interesting oh my goodness we would have seen that coming so similar sense of humor let's jump
right into this have you had a look at this have you seen this you heard about this google buys htc but it's a little
more complicated than that so the original article here is from Android
central 1.1 billion basically for the right to hire people
you know i don't know i feel like they they they
they what who do they hire motorola before they well they bought them
motorola yeah and then flipped them to them they flipped them over so i feel
like maybe they were like okay we tried buying a phone company before and it
didn't work out well maybe the issue was that they bought motorola
who hadn't done anything relevant i mean okay lots of patents
but okay so this is at it
it affects apparently about 2 000 employees the reason why i'm stuttering
is this deal is to be able to hire them at
a cost of about 550 000 per employee
these are some primo employees yeah they are the best employees
you've never seen employees like this
trust me now to be clear this also gives them a non-exclusive license to htc's
intellectual property now i suspect if i had to guess based on
that htc's non-exclusive is fine because
from what i can tell google doesn't want htc to go out of business
so they're not going to like exclusively license everything and hire what is it i
think it's about half of their staff is that right is it half i don't know i think it's something like that don't
don't quote me on that one though but it's a significant number of their staff
they don't want them to go out of business because they still i believe
they still intend to contract manufacture with htc they are not acquiring any of the manufacturing right
i wonder if the employees get any of the cash from their like oh right to be sold
like cattle i super bet not like like this is so yeah yeah it's like they're
paying google is paying htc for the right to pay the employees
their wage but i don't get anything
whether htc has made anything relevant in the last
three years or not they own the squeezy thing
sorry go ahead they own a ton of cell phone ip
because they were the og Android cell phone manufacturer
um so one of the one of the biggest challenges
around building a product is not figuring out how to build a product one
of the biggest challenges is figuring out how to build a product without
infringing on an 800 pound gorilla
going to just lawsuit you into the dirt
for building something that happens to infringe on their patent even if you
developed it independently i mean that's why it's pretty much
impossible for anyone else to show up and become
a GPU manufacturer at this point it's like done Intel tried and if Intel
can't do it quite frankly well maybe apple could still do it my
question is but other than that i don't think so my my
question is how many times is google going to do this like when an Android
phone manufacturer is struggling because when they bought motorola motorola was
basically like all just irrelevant yeah and then
if they hadn't been bought they would have been done but now
they're doing great again as well sort of but like you know
yeah you're seeing i wouldn't be surprised if it kept happening remember it's really
hard to tell if a chinese-backed company is doing great well okay i don't know
their numbers because they could just be getting like you could be seeing like
all these ads and all these new like products and all this stuff but it could
be just literally chinese government money just buying paying for all of it
true and then just buying the inventory off the shelves when it's done and burying
it in a hole like we don't know or incinerating it
and then creating rain to wash it out of the air
like we don't know yeah no no that's fair but in terms of like brand
awareness i mean i know i know that i've been hearing a lot more about like the
moto moto g series and stuff right there they
kind of found a niche as like this budget thing like my brother-in-law has
one i think they're killing it in india too right yeah is my understanding
anyway i could be wrong is the same good thing gonna happen with htc like by
they didn't buy the whole company they bought part of it but like i don't know it's gonna be interesting
to see whether it actually saves them or not right i love hcc i kind of have an
emotional connection to them because they're did you did you ever see that original commercial with like with the
uh we are you and you and you and i think so and the piano is like
i like that commercial so because that commercial i don't want
them to go up yeah yeah it's probably from a pr first they were my first
agency but whatever yeah my first Android phone was an htc i don't know i
just there we go okay now speaking of the feels from when you were a kid this
original article is from bbc.com
toys r us toys r us files for bankruptcy
protection in the us and canada damn
um wow 64. 6 what
64 000 employees they have like i wanted to start like i wanted to start to go
[ __ ] me for real yeah go [ __ ] you toys r us i think they're in the whole 4
billion 4 billion four billion do it guys
can we raise if every person on earth
legitimately every single one of them we need a contributed 50 cents we need a
sarah mclaughlin commercial yeah yeah ah
look in the eyes look in the eyes of this batman action figure um so a us
bankruptcy judge approved a loan of more than two billion to help stabilize the
toy chain and i mean i love toys r us as much as anyone
but why is anybody giving gigantic big
box retail chains billion dollar loans i was gonna say this is just another
amazon created corpse like like amazon just murdered this
company yep yep i mean would you lend them two
billion dollars no
uh i'd have to get two billion dollars first clearly they all ran for right i'm not
sure how to answer that question the fact that they owe you know two billion
dollars tells us everything we need to know
about how the business is going billions i mean the stuff they sell is
like 30 bucks well i don't know lego man
okay that's true that was expensive yeah
so in 2016 about 13.7 percent of all toy
sales were online and that's up six and a half percent from five years ago
that's in 2016. that's last year in countries where amazon is not as big so
the uk the eu in general asia not
included in the bankruptcy really so it's just countries where amazon is big
because i wonder who killed toys r us this is the thing about the the rise of
amazon it's like you know i justine was saying she can order something and have
it arrive in 15 minutes we don't have that luxury here in canada no not yet
but you know but it's like it's it's sounds like yeah maybe by 9 p.m but it's the same
day but even here it's like a couple days as long as it's got prime we have a
lot less prime selection but like i definitely get my money's worth
that's for free shipping if you want to pay for it you can get it by 9 pm same
day yeah as long as you order before i think it's 11 a.m or something and it's just like it's actually
more it takes less time like out of my life by like an order of
magnitude oh yeah oh yeah to where i just like i like if we give my if my
kids have a stupid birthday party to go to i've just got amazon top selling toys
find something that doesn't look like plastic garbage order it and don't think about it
anymore because my wife will wrap it and
also you don't have to feel like kind of a weirdo walking into a toy store as a
grown adult you know like this is for this isn't for me
this is for my friend this is from my friend this is my friend
with a pedo stash yeah yeah exactly yeah you had your speedo stash was great but
i i want to bring it back you should bring back every time i shave i just
shave the whole thing and forget that i'm like oh yeah i want a stash you got to bring you know what if you want to
remember just take like a big sharpie and just draw on here and then you'll see it until it grows
over and it'll look basically the same yeah
hey it'll remind you i had that for a long time but
it's it's it's almost mainstream now it's too you know i was a hipster when i
had it yeah yeah it's like now you see a guy with a mustache you're like oh
it's just another dude all right so last topic of the day
this could change memes forever
pepe the frog's creator oh boy gets legal against the alt-right
so yes the creator matt fury and his lawyers
have taken legal action against the alt-right serving cease and desist
orders to several alt-right personalities and websites including
richard spencer and mike cernovich
so spencer uh pepe is all over his site and the mascot for his podcast alt-right
politics and for cernovich uh he used a
3d version of pepe dancing with hillary clinton reading aloud sections of her
new book he's also served a cease and desist against r slash the donald and as
someone who has tried to contact reddit about the content on their site before
i can i can say that's probably not going anywhere they're really really
good at just ignoring they've also issued dmca takedown requests to reddit
amazon youtube and twitter notifying them that use of pepe by the alt-right
on their platforms is copyright infringement
and at the end of august fury's lawyers actually reached a settlement with eric
hauser who appropriated pepe's image for use in an islamophobic children's book
so they forced him to stop selling the book and made him donate the profits to
the council on american islamic relations apparently google play has
stopped selling build the wall of the game
because of advertising with special guest appearances from pepe that's right
previously previously apple had refused to publish
the game until it removed pepe the frog and apple has a blanket band against
pepe the frog that it has enforced against multiple app creators this is
fascinating because it kind of opens up a conversation about who owns memes yes
like memes have kind of existed as a sort of like oh it's a distributed
content that kind of arose from the internet sort of organically so it's
like if you make a meme and it becomes a meme do you own the copyright and and
the answer until now although i don't to my knowledge this hasn't been like
seriously a question i think you absolutely do
right because you created something but like a lot of the time it's derivative but
not derivative enough you didn't create anything you captioned
it in a lot of cases right and the caption is often part of the original
creation and and it has never been
enforced no to this kind of a degree now
to be clear it looks like matt fury is only going
after the alt right here but if he wins
a bunch of these battles if he wins a battle against reddit imagine he wins
against reddit there's some there's some problems though if he only goes after
the alt-right yeah that would mean that he's doing it because he doesn't like how very specific people are using it i
don't think that's a way that you can defend it also he let it happen for so
long i think that hurts his case a lot that he probably won't be able to defend
it anymore because he seemed okay with it i think we've even talked on the lan
show about how at one point in time he was just like baby the frog is just a
thing man it was like the most stoned statement i've ever read
do you remember that quite a while ago but it was like a very
like everyone just gets to coexist and just pepe the frog's just awesome
teddy frog is for everyone he's probably taking a bunch of crap for
it yeah very likely i mean but it's been so long and that statement came out and
if there's a statement saying sure you can use it he's basically screwed the obvious
parallel here is to the pewdiepie situation where he yes the firewatch
developer goes and does a dmca takedown specifically of pewdiepie's firewatch
content because they didn't agree with how you know with and and
there's a similar problem there which is probably why you're bringing this up but
on firewatch's website there's a specific yes you can use this for
streaming and video creation and you can monetize it
and like it that one's a little bit more direct the firewatch one is that's
pretty black and white uh i'm not even 100 sure about the pepe the frog one it
was from a while ago and i think it was pretty vague anyways yeah but if there's
a confirm that you can use it like right i mean to be fair
is is the question whether he's a like he's justified in doing this
because i think he is yeah i don't think that's the question i think the question
of whether it's like legally yeah he's justified he'll win i'm talking about
whether i think he'll win right whether he's justified in doing this is not the
debate for sure if someone creates an image it belongs to them right and
people can't use it without permission but what the discussion is is around the
fact that this has always been this gray area yeah and now we're opening up this
can of worms that goes okay if people are gonna start defending
their memes then are we gonna kill memes
but with glorious applause um i think there will still definitely be
some yeah yeah we gotta fit it in there yeah um i think there's definitely still
gonna be some like freeware memes and i bet you there will be like a
reddit community around like anything posted in here if it is oc has some
license like the public memeing license where everyone is allowed to use it
forever and then people are going to start creating memes out of stuff that comes out of there and then memes will
be saved i think i bet you that will happen if this like goes through i bet
no no the internet would would rally around memes imager and reddit would get
behind 4chan too let's not leave that they're all all these big sites they're
all going to get behind me let's just let's bring back ebom's world while we're at yeah they would save memes too
why not i mean for this for this to be the death of memes uh it kind of
requires every meme creator to also do
to yeah go after copyright for like their memes right so which i don't think yeah
i don't think that generally people are responsible for creating these kind of
things i would be a lot more hesitant to use them though if used if anyone had
one illegal fight ever true
yeah as an individual i might just yellow it
but as a business because individually you'd be fine but how does fairy use play into that
because like if you take a meme and you're like okay i'm going to make a copy of this meme and put your like
block text caption on it that's not i mean that's technically
parody it's technically kind of i think you have to actually for commercial use
it's tough yeah yeah yeah well if it's commercial use i think that's why these
differences especially when uh there was the exact same font usually on the
previous one yeah i don't think you'd get away with that yeah right i think
you'd have to change the core of the image
all right so that's pretty much it for the lan show for today thank you guys
for tuning in big thanks to our special guests justine uh stephen and riley you
can check out uh well i mean you're watching on twitch right now or
maybe you're not maybe you're watching on youtube if you're watching on youtube we'll have links to uh where you can go
check those guys out in the video description if you're on twitch google is a really cool website yeah it works
quite well there's everything on there yeah they got everything on google alright i'm rolling the outro i'm
rolling the outro i mean they can still hear us you guys are killing me they
heard you say i'm rolling the outro you guys are killing me wait a minute
you're killing me here are you alive
i'm you're killing me i can still be alive what's taking so long am i dead
am i alive i do not know
oh my god how long does this outro go