welcome to the WAN Show guys uh we would like to apologize for the incredible
slowness with which we got the show going today we had a number of issues
first and foremost was the fact that our where is that thing cuz I think we
should just destroy it on camera okay so our baringer headphone splitter and
amplifier has gone further than having one dead port and has now failed
outright and is causing all kinds of random interference so this thing can
die in a fire then my DisplayPort output on my other notebook you can see
I'm not using my notebook this week decided that it did not want to be
imported by the a media capture card nor the Blackmagic extra backup capture card
that we have on our stream PC so I had to run and find another notebook to use
so between those two issues we've had to redo our audio setup we've had to change
over my notebook and I believe we actually redid the networking in this
room while we were at it and we did all that in half an hour so as much as we're
very sorry for being late we do sincerely apologize we hope that you're
at least a little bit impressed that we managed to bring the show to you at all
today so Guys Without further Ado
welcome to the W show our topics today
oh first of all our special guest is Wendell from Tech Syndicate by popular
demand we're actually going to be bringing him on pretty much right away because we're starting late and we're
going to have a ton of discussion about AMD's event that just ran this week
there's lots of new stuff about mantle
amds upcoming cavar apus in January at
as well as I mean just cool St software stuff like Tres FX 2.0 which is
apparently going to do more than make a ponytail waggle back and forth
realistically most of the time uh We've also got lots of console stuff to talk
about so one of them of the many console
topics is the PS4 streaming to Vita compared to NVIDIA streaming from a PC
to NVIDIA Shield which I think is actually pretty interesting Yeah we
actually got a PS4 today so we are definitely going to be doing some
highspeed footage comparing the latency of Shield to the latency of PS4's V I
guess we'll have to get a v we have to get oh balls okay well we'll have to do that okay anyway we can probably get a
used Fe without further Ado here's the intro
so guys our sponsor for the W show this week is Hotspot Shield Hotspot Shield is
an easyvpn solution and there's actually
a couple misconceptions about it so people think that it is AD supported no
if you buy the elite version and you use offer code Linus you save 20% and it is
not ad supported if you're using Elite so vpns allow you to mask your location
and identity from casual browsers I mean if the nsa's real determined to figure
out who you are they probably can but it also allows you to circumvent
geographical restrictions on services such as Netflix or even Google services
in countries where they're not allowed to be used so it's
uh yeah I mean I just said everything it does
right essentially all right so without further Ado guys let's launch into our
first topic before we have Wendell join us so Kev
is AMD's upcoming Apu architecture so
it's going to be changing over from the previous generation cores to I believe
oh bollocks what's the new one called is it Steamroller
or no I think it's steam so they're going to be changing over to Steamroller
cores which is going to amount to essentially improved performance and
single-threaded applications which let's face it guys AMD has been due to deliver
us for a while here we've been looking
at pretty much for a from a per clock
basis um not a whole lot of improvement
in the last few generations of AMD processors they've done things like
adding more cores and they've done things like increasing clock speeds but
the actual IPC hasn't changed a whole lot so we're going to see a dramatic
Improvement there the other thing that we're going to see improved is
multi-threaded performance so this is going to be augmented by certain
software things that are going to be changing over the next little a while particularly for gamers with mantle but
cavar is going to improve single-threaded performance multi-threaded performance and
dramatically improve GPU performance so this was a tweet from Ryan Shrout who
I've actually arranged to join us next week I don't know if you knew this yet cool so Ryan's going to be joining us
next week he was at the event we unfortunately weren't able to attend but
this tweet he says just saw AMD cavar
running Battlefield 4 at 1080p medium
settings beating the Intel 4770k and
gForce gt630 GPU impressive especially
impressive when you consider that that cavar CPU Apu GPU whatever you want to
call it that Cav Apu is probably going to be significantly less expensive than
that other solution now I suspect that AMD was picking and choosing the
comparison a little carefully there because the 4770k costs $100 more than a
4670k and doesn't tangibly improve the gaming performance in most games whereas
spending that extra $100 on a GPU but is
kind of thing Battlefield 4 maybe but in Battlefield 4 but I think we can still
agree that spending another $100 on a GP made a bigger difference blah blah blah
a bigger difference we actually just did some testing recently that maybe you'd
like to talk about a little bit so we normally don't review low-end stuff and
we normally don't review stuff that um that we think is stupid because what's
the point of us giving exposure to products that we think are stupid but
recently just to kind of you know fly in the face of everyone saying how we're
we're this and we're that and we don't do these things I decided to do it we
grabbed an r7240 graphics card which is an $80 card very value oriented or is it
no no really that's all you're going to say about it if you if you put down the
rebate and actually do it unlike many people happen to do and decide to get a
70 77
7770 so many sevens a 7770 if you pay
the rebate it's basically the same price and is incredibly better and if you
decide to get a you want a new generation one if you shove out a little
bit more and get a 260x it's way way way
way way better so basically lanus wanted
to torture me and have me test a r7240 which was torture yeah what was
benchmarking like at 9 frames per second I'm just curious I I had to run the Far
Cry Benchmark way more than I normally run it because if if you guys have seen
the Far Cry benchmarking video you know I go around that Loop and I kind of bend
around the corners and try and get up and hit those barrels and whatever and I have to be hitting the barrels and I try
to dodge guys that's and Rockets I have to dodge Rockets Dodge all the Rockets
if I get hit by a rocket I have to restart because it changes the frame rate too much so I was constantly
getting hit by Rockets cuz I couldn't Dodge them cuz I can't move properly and
I was constantly like just skimming barrels not hitting them and just being like ah well I need that time increase
so I kind of need to restart just like
come on or I hit an angle around a corner just kind of weird and hit
something and it would stop the car and I just be like okay I have to start
again so basically guys what we're trying to say here is if you really want
a value optimized Graphics solution
check out apus we actually have a build guide that we're going to be working on
very very soon we're going to be bringing that to you guys where we're going to do kind of like a $500 to $600
Apu system so it's going to be optimized for using opencl to accelerate certain
workloads such as uh Adobe Photoshop some of the filters you can apply are
opencl accelerated it'll also be focused on the upgradeability of an APU so you
can have entry-level gaming today then you can pop a $150 $100 graphics card in
it and you can have a truly excellent gaming experience that's as good or
better than what you can get with a game console for really that not that much more expensive especially when you
consider the additional functionality so I am an advocate of Apu I'm an advocate
of graphics cards that are about $100 and up but that low-end graphics card
Market whether it's AMD or NVIDIA we're not meaning to pick on AMD with the
r7240 they just they they came up their
number was up so I mean there's other AMD solutions that we like so I would
say yeah and like you just said something like a
630 probably equally stupid yeah yeah so
the the thing is upgrade your entire system if you have $80 to spend grab a
cheap Apu and a motherboard and that's
that's and sell your old stuff get a couple bucks there maybe you can get 20
bucks for it if it's really old that gives you an extra little bit to maybe
grab you know a little bit of RAM or you can get 4 gig RAM kits I think for like
25 bucks these days I was looking at uh at them online the other day oh okay cuz
I was going to say with the RAM shortage I wasn't sure yeah so I mean yeah
upgrade your system get reasonable performance and then upgrade a little
bit again later all right so without further Ado let's invite our special
guest Wendell from Tech Syndicate by popular
demand why hello there sir you might not be able to hear me yet but you might be
able to hear me now cuz he was just doing the
things hopefully he's there yes you left
us in suspense there we redone the audio setup which means that we really just
don't know what's going to work and what's not hey man how are
you yeah I've I've had better days thank you for
asking yeah so uh oh oh what whoa people are
saying they can't hear Wendell okay okay give us just a moment here we got to
hm why um
uh hold on it's on this one isn't it I
have no idea yeah oh I don't remember how to fix that okay Wendel give us a
moment we might have a bit of a team speak configuration thing going on
here ah it's like uh you know the NSA
who of course is probably a big fan of you just doesn't doesn't want this show
to happen so they like you know hacked
our stream PC or oh my God something
stop conspiracy theories abound here so
they they don't want this stream to happen so they came into our house with
uh you know oh actually Wendell can you talk for a minute let's see if they can hear you now o to spot Felix is your
taxonomic nomenclature okay I all right welcome to
the show man now we've only met in person once before but uh I think we had
a fair bit of fun going to that restaurant that Logan couldn't eat
anything at and
uh that was kind of fun that that that was kind of fun so why don't you just
take a brief moment and introduce yourself to those few of our viewers who
don't already know who you are I'm uh hey guys I'm wendle I'm un
loan from Tech Syndicate and uh I sort of take care of the Forum a little bit
over there and some of the technical things and I do a little bit of
everything so um I sort of I'm I'm sort
of the nerd that nerds out with Logan I guess yes all right so speaking of nerding out
why don't we just go ahead and jump right into our first guest topic here
which is a little bit out of order but uh this this was a post on Intel's
Facebook not that long ago I'm just going to go ahead and show all the nice
folks watching this thing so Intel says and So speaking of nering
out right into the smart refrigerator
concept we're developing a little bit will know what food is stored a
possible recipes so they've got crap on here that's like recipe
match you a little recipe this is a very first world problem having so much
variety and the food that we can choose to eat that we need a computer to tell
us what to eat and when and how but tell
me about this concept and how Intel might not have been the first one to
think of this oh well I think what
you're talking about is um in college I built something similar um but it was uh
it was a little different okay so the Intel thing is they've got the fridge
and you know the fridge knows what's inside it and blah blah blah I didn't really do
that well why don't you tell us what you what you did have running because it
sounded pretty cool when you were telling me about it I've got um so what
I did was you know it's it's very much foul Bachelor Frog if you can imagine
foul Bachelor Frog so a lot of frozen dinners were sort of you know in my
future but I had a a barcode scanner hooked up to a microwave oven and so I
could take something out of the freezer and scan it with the barcode scanner and
put it in the oven but you know a frozen dinner in a microwave oven that never
comes out well so I got one of the fancy ovens with the turntable and so it's
like you know running high for 5 minutes and then sleep for two minutes and then spin it the other way for a minute and a
half I got kind of fancy with the programs for the programmable microwave
so that was kind of fun but you know fresh vegetables there's no barcode so
it didn't work so basically what you had what you
had managed to build was something that would have terrible implications for the
the health of anyone that uh that that
that used it because no one would ever eat vegetables anymore only things with
barcodes yeah you would have to you would have to prepare your meals ahead
of time I guess for like the the way that that but it was you know a minimum of effort I mean how cool is that you
can just pop open the fridge scan it put it in a thing and then when it beeps
it's done it's actually pretty freaking cool and like yeah it would be pretty
funny if you got like a homemade barcode creator thing M just like individually
barcoded all of your different vegetables well I even actually like I
like I thought of that because one of the things that I wanted to do as an inventory system here I talked to you
about this very briefly because we get a lot of like random graphics cards and
stuff arriving some of it has to go back some of it doesn't have to go back it's
hard to keep track of what anything is or how much it's worth or what we're
supposed to do with it so I I was like okay well we should just have like a
tablet with a barcode scanner like at the door and then when stuff arrives we
could just scan it into inventory put in an approximate value from the invoice
and then at least we can we can track things but uh this Intel thing looks
much more sophisticated and I think there's a few there's a few different
ways that this could improve our lives so number one that comes to mind
immediately of course is the recipe match number two is replenishment so
with Amazon rolling out things like grocery delivery you could just
basically have you know it could be like Google Now not only tracks when you need
to go to work and how to get there and how long it's going to take but tracks
what you might be in the mood to eat based on your you know circadian rhythms
or whatever the season and you know hey it's October would you like some pumpkin
pie and uh you know it'll just order from Amazon what you might like to eat
you can obviously manually override it if you want and then it just shows up
you put it in your fridge your fridge tells you what to cook I mean are we going to get to the point where we don't
even have to think anymore it it would probably work pretty
well from a nutrition and and diet management point because um I knew
somebody that lived in Seattle when they had the home grocery delivery service
and that was amazing like that was like I stayed with them uh for a month or so
while I was out there and it was the most incredible thing ever I mean you
get weekly fresh groceries fresh vegetables all delivered right to your
door and it's like wow if you combine that with you know Nutrition management
and something else and it's all handled by an application you don't have to think
anymore which you know what I mean we when we say that it sounds like kind of
a dirty word you know you don't have to think anymore like I've ized lukee here
for not being able to find his way to work after working there for well over 6
months because but I bust there the whole time sometimes because I barely
ever drove you were driving for a while and you still didn't know how to get
there like four times whatever so what he there's like four turns okay so what
he would do is he would just key it into Google Maps and then he would follow it
and then he wouldn't think and in this like I kind of would tease him i' go
well you know traffic roading it would give me a different route every time based on traffic so old guys like me had
to listen to the radio and had to actually know how to get places whereas
I had a conversation with someone who disagreed with me very strongly that at
some point kids aren't even going to know how to drive or how to get anywhere
because it'll always be done for them but nutrition is something where I
really don't think there's anything wrong it's like phone numbers it's like
what is the benefit of storing phone numbers in your head other than 911 I
don't think we really need phone dies or something yeah or if your phone dies or
something but even then I have like two or three that if I'm ever in trouble it
would be fine I don't need to know all of them but nutrition is something that is so essential and is so complicated
that people and people don't really understand like you would be able to do
things like your smart fridge could detect on Facebook that you said you're
going to have a baby and all of a sudden it could take papaya out of your regular
shipments because pregnant women shouldn't eat papaya which is a totally unintuitive thing how cool is
that I like that a lot I mean the smart applications I think there's there's a
lot to the Future in that I knew one of the that worked on the the residential
version of the turbo chef and that it's it's been out for many years now
probably four or five years but there's an app that's built into the home turbo
Chef this is like a $5,000 home oven but it can cook things immediately and it
makes it really easy to cook things like chicken and Duck and lamb and things
like that without having to do a lot of preparation with fresh ingredients and I
I could see sort of the the technology there with this oven combined with
something like this fridge I mean it's it's a really interesting technology and
you end up you know sort of having a better life experience cuz you know you're doing good home cooking and
things like that it will improve the quality of life and you know what I
don't mind cooking I find one of the most crappy things about homecooked
meals is coming up with what you want to eat and then shopping for it and then
all of a sudden we've taken the the the tediousness tedium I guess would be the
correct word out of that and all you have to do is prepare food which really
isn't even that timec consuming and is so much less expensive and so much
better for you it would just be automatic Improvement for me because I
just go to Costco I'm going live by myself I just go to Costco and buy like
little troughs of chicken breast and then just like something like a huge
thing of Roma lettuce and I'm like okay I'm eating chicken and lettuce chicken
and salad for like a week and a half at least you could even uh mix it up and
have a chicken salad oh exactly that's basically where the end of my creativity
is cuz I'm like I'm going to save money and that's the only thing that I really end
at I mean the other thing many people don't understand very well and it's not
a criticism of them it's just it's kind of complicated is how long food is good
for so when you add the food when you start having you know uh codes or chips
inside the packaging or whatever else the case may be that the smart fridge can be aware of you put some beef in
there and your smart fridge can send you a text message be like yo you haven't
cooked this yet you've got probably about 6 hours to pop it in the freezer
before that's just not going to be good for anything anymore we could be looking
at a lot of health benefits from a food spoiling perspective as well which I
think is as cool you know I think um
when the iPad first came out about 6 months or a year after um apps
Epicurious and I think apps like Epicurious which is like sort of an interactive recipe program I think those
were some of the top sellers in the app store because people were using them in the kitchen so it was a sort of totally
unexpected Serendipity from sort of having ubiquitous easy tablet
Computing it's actually one of the first apps I got for my smartphone when I got
it was I don't remember if it was actually Epicurious but it was one of
the ones that is like oh I have all of these different things what can I have
for dinner tonight y because it actually helped like I I knew what I could make
with that but I would take this app and it would spit out something that I
wouldn't have thought of or that I didn't even know what it was and it was just a different way of making it it was
really interesting to discover a few recipes that way so let's have some
discussion about AMD which is going to be um you know an uncommon theme on
today's show uh which is of course total BS so
let's talk mantle here I just want to go through some tweets for the audience
real quick here so that they're kind of up to speed so these are some tweets from James prior who I actually I
actually know he's uh he's in charge of Apu marketing right now he seems like a
pretty good guy I've had a couple calls with him so here are some tweets from
Ryan trout again Who Will Be Our Guest next week in James prior so Ryan says
you know this could completely change the landscape for multicore which has
been a sore spot for Gamers game
developers uh CPU makers who can't scale
frequency anymore they need dis scale course to keep the actual power
consumption and heat output of these chips down and yet gaming which really
has driven performance in some ways particularly on the consumer desktop for
a long time it's it's it's just not able to leverage the stuff so so Ryan
basically goes okay yeah this is going to completely change the game because
all of a sudden an fx8350 is just as fast as a core i 74770 k that is a head
explosion moment because a 4770k is a lot faster than an fx8 350 in gaming
right now James also says with mantle
they underclocked an fx8350 to 2 GHz so we're talking about a
frequency that is about 60% of what that can actually run at and the game was
still GPU bound on an R9 290x there was
no loss in frame rate so CPU performance and the funny thing about this is AMD is
also sort of a CPU company is is is is
moving towards irrelevance I mean I guess it's great because AMD is also a
GPU company it's funny how many people talked about how the ATI acquisition was
going to sync AMD and AMD was like no no it's our future trust us well I'm just
glad they lasted long enough to to show us what's going on now so there's a
couple other things um a frame with mantle has a lot of unused CPU time
there's not a driver hole at all that's awesome and then this is a comment from
oxide who's developing a an engine that
is going to be more geared towards RTS
where they're saying they can make RTS games GPU Bound for the first time in
pretty much forever and they've only had a few months so they basically haven't
had time to optimize it but they figure it's about two man months worth of
development time to get mantle into game
so why don't we let wend why don't you give us your thoughts on this whole
mantle and multi-threaded Computing optimization thing that's finally
happening okay so I looked at the I looked at the presentation I haven't had
a time to go through it really in depth because you know at the outset it seems
like they're trying to get blood from a turnup because things have really been
well optimized in these games for a long time and so it's like architecturally
what are they doing different I don't understand well in the AMD mantle video
at 1639 they explain it and it starts to make sense um one of the major things
that they do is sort of take out well direct X isn't part of the equation but
you know is direct X really that terrible well part of the problem is
that direct X is a little bit monolithic and you know when you're adding shaders
and things like that it goes through a bottleneck where all the all those things that are happening in parallel
have to be synchronized but with the mantle architecture at 1639 in that
video it's showing that they're um sort of developing independent cues that can
live and exist in different memory space and on different cores on the GPU and so
it becomes much less CPU bound at that point and everything can run in parallel
and that sounds really
promising so instead of I mean so to so to give the viewers some context in the
early days when we were first getting dual core processors and we were all
really excited about it it was kind of like oh well now we can run like the
in-game AI on One processor and then we can use the other one just to power the
graphic experience and then what we realized when we started getting three
core and four core and six core processors is that okay so now we've got
like AI here and physics here or on the
GPU depending on if you ask AMD or NVIDIA about that and then we've also
got the actual gaming experience here so so the without the ability to
parallelize the actual GPU r the actual
rendering of the scene we were stuck for a really long time and it looks like
Mantle's just according to AMD's claims going to just flat out fix that now
they're finally talking numbers although we had heard rumors earlier that of of
around these numbers but they're talking about 20 to 50% performance improvements
on cards that are a couple years old with AMD mantle enabled games how
exciting is that from a consumer standpoint I I think that it's going to
sort of open up a whole new world it makes sense with their Str because you
know the Apu has clearly gotten a lot more attention from AMD you know R&D and
stuff like that and it's really kind of disappointing on the desktop processor
side of the world because it's like hey you know what there's still room to innovate on the desktop side I mean
let's work on power consumption or something but when you look at it this
way it's like ah architecturally you know they may be on to something here
because this is this means they're going to be able to do more with less and
that's where they're going to cut their power and that's where they're going to they're going to get their
efficiency absolutely I mean one thing there were rumors circulating for a
while about a six core yeah and that's
that's exactly that tweet about downclocking the chip to 2 GHz is like
okay how much power consumption does an 8350 at 2 GHz have I mean we don't know
I don't think anyone ever tried it because it just didn't perform well enough to try to run it at such a low
frequency and do anything with it but that's uh that that's absolutely
gamechanging I mean to put this in perspective for the viewers again we're
talking 20 to 50% performance Improvement puts a an R
9270 which is about a $179.99 graphics card so mainstream
performance puts that in the same performance weight class as an
r9280x which is a $300 plus do graphics
card and not that long ago was a $400 $500 graphics card last gen that is that
is absolutely gamechanging and what can NVIDIA do to address
this well you know this is an open platform and so NVIDIA can sort of adopt
the model here I think you know I don't have any real I don't have any friends
that are like really really inside the game sector I know some people that
develop indie games and they always complain about how terrible DirectX is
but how the problem with openg GL is that it's not like it's standardized
across platforms but it's not the same across platforms and so something that
might work great in one situation doesn't work at all in another situation
at least you don't have that with direct X mantle is an opportunity for AMD to
bring that to not just the the Windows platform but probably also Mac and Linux
and I'm really hoping that the Linux thing takes off me too I mean I don't
know if you saw this but did you see Microsoft sort of hey we're we're sorry
about the whole PC gaming thing and how we completely crap the bed on that uh
we're going to we're going to we're going to support it better we're going to start by eliminating games for
Windows Live which I think was met by uproarious you know horay and all of
that kind of stuff but is it just too little too late I mean they had
opportunity really for the last 5 years
to get their crap together you know what give the PC your Halo game come on you
guys is it is it too late yeah I mean I
think the biggest problem with DirectX is the way that the shaders are handled
that's Apparently one of the big bottlenecks and the one of the things about the sort of Q's implementation I
guess is what they call it in the video is that it lets those things sort of
live on their own so right now if you think of it the GPU you're giving a
whole attas to the GPU that are well suited for the GPU and you have you know
like Soldier Ai and things like that running on the CPU and then at the
middle of this mess is direct X and direct X is trying to synchronize all
those things and you know with mantle it's like hey we can do this this way
and this that way and you can yeah ex it's it's it makes a lot of sense and it
puts stuff in the hands of the developers but it makes sense that the
hardware people are providing it and so if Microsoft plays nice and provides a
low enough level Hardware interface that they don't don't have to like hack the
Windows kernel that's what Microsoft needs to do because their expertise is
not here they need to step aside and let the experts do what they need to do and
give them what they need at an operating system level and that's the best thing they could do for this and at the same
time I I actually don't necessarily think it's too little too late because
of what Wendell just said and because even though Linux is being much more
openly adopted now it's still that scary word I love Linux but a lot of people
are just scared of it don't want to try it and the second they sit down in front
of them even though it's not sitting in command console at first or terminal um
yeah I totally don't see this going to desktop Linux right away I think it'll
be on the steam box or something like that and then it'll sort of leak from
the steam box onto Linux desktop I don't think it'll be there overnight but
that's exactly it I don't think it'll be overnight either but this is I mean this
is what I see happening what I see happening is this opening the door now
okay to be clear when mantle was first talked about this is again this is more
for the viewers benefit it wasn't very clear what what exactly it was AMD gave
some details but they were I think they were waiting for this event to really
talk about it and so there was there were a lot of rumors it was open to
NVIDIA it wasn't open to NVIDIA it was running on the PlayStation 4 it was
running on Xbox oh no it was it's not running on those and it really wasn't
clear it'll work on Linux or you know I think that one's been pretty clear from
the start but what we're finding out now and this was again revealed at the event
where Johan Anderson who is Li D lies
dice's lead uh like dice's lead technical I think was future whatever
something he has a complicated title but basically he's leading future
development for the frostbite engine Series where he basically said okay yeah
it's not the same but the mantle code for Battlefield 4 looks a lot closer to
the PS4 code than it looks to the direct X code so if a game developer I mean one
of the things we've talked about on the show before is that guys like indie game
devs if they were going to pick one then
might pick direct X but all of a sudden
that could change if a lot of indie game devs are developing for console first
right so if they could do it relatively easily this could be a total Game
Changer and then they could add support for Linux they could add support for Windows and all of a sudden I mean Indie
guys love Linux yeah well they they love
adopting it because then you get that huge hord of people that will support you yes and they're very outspoken and
we'll talk about it a lot and your game gets a lot of traction another thing that I noticed though was the uh I don't
remember their name but those guys making the engine um oxide oxide we're
saying that it takes about they said it takes almost not a lot of work two
months of man hours yeah so if you have even two devs you could do it in a month
and you can do it like how like how dice is doing it I have no problem with that
release the game and then follow up with mantle support sure especially for a
game that's a multiplayer oriented game where we're not talking a single player
campaign that you're going to play through in a week and then you're going to put the game on the Shelf
I mean not I mean do people still buy physical games I mean put it away in your steam Library
um as long as it's not something like that then yeah I have no problem with
that as long as mantle is well supported
not only crossplatform but also um cross
device and that's where you know NVIDIA is going to be at a disadvantage
implementing this and I hope that that doesn't impede its adoption but at the
same time you know you got to look at Microsoft Microsoft does have a console
and they do have a desktop and and you know if you think back to the Xbox one
that was just a PC it seems like they could have learned these lessons like 10
years ago and Incorporated it into the Windows OS and one wonders why they
didn't I I mean this is uh this is this
is a very this is a very confusing thing to me and I mean my my whole my Outburst
about Halo um is is sort of a microcosm
of that I think where Microsoft had this opportunity to be everything to everyone
for gaming they they really did I mean when PCS got
more powerful why didn't Microsoft just
give us an Xbox first gen emulator and
let us buy Xbox games and run them on our
PCS really guys why not you could have
done it I thought that's where they were headed with the Xbox 360 and then all of
a sudden they put you know power PC they put a Mac processor in the Xbox 360
isn't that right isn't it a isn't it a power PC yeah it's an IBM power PC I
think it's like a three core some weird thing and I and I saw that and I went
what you guys were so close to just being dominant here who could have
stopped you at that point and then and then if they owned the desktop and they
owned the notebook and they owned the game console then how much more
compelling is something like their mobile platform if all of a sudden I can
get this back library and the the wiel
alliance can continue and Intel can get into Mobile because all of a sudden
they're the ones powering the plat that Gamers and enthusiasts want to use
how how close were they to having that happen how myopic was their view that
allowed this to occur what happened here well they are back to PC I guess now
again with the x86 architecture one wonders what that has like what they've
got up their sleeve for ex the uh DirectX infrastructure or what the
developer kits look like on on Xbox
one yeah yeah I mean there it's not like they're down for the count it's not like
they're out of money I think I saw something not that long ago that says
their their revenue from Android alone is something like 2 billion a year so so
they got they got plenty of money to fix
this all right so speaking of crossplatform this is something that for
me personally is really exciting and that is streaming from larger devices to
smaller devices in the home now NVIDIA Shield is something that was met with I
think a very mixed reaction and I think that's being very generous people for
the most part said oh it's too expensive and it's stupid why would I even want to
play my games on this handheld thing when I could be sitting at my PC and I
think the problem is that NVIDIA's trying to approach the the the
traditional PC Gamer with this and I think they haven't had much luck
communicating to console Gamers because there's for whatever reason that weird
divide between glorious PC gaming Master race and the the console peasants as the
PC guys like to refer to them um you know we can all blame zero punctuation
for this but PlayStation 4 is adding a feature
that Shield was first to Market with and NVIDIA calls it game stream where you
can stream from your PS4 to a PS Vita
and play PS4 games on the vaita with of course PlayStation 4 graphical Fidelity
what are your thoughts on this we actually saw it demo there was a video that came out I think it was today or
yesterday that was showing that the latency is actually very
low it it's really interesting that this sort of technology I mean you look at
the latency of the transport mechanism you know wired versus Wireless
and I think with the with the PS4 didn't they mention that the 1080p streams have
to be wired um oh Oh you mean with the shield yeah yeah yes Shield has to use a
wired USB 2 to gigabit Ethernet adapter
so you can tell they need more than 100 megabit sustained but less than a full
gigabit because obviously it's going over USB 2 um in order to achieve 1080p
streaming okay so the way to think about this and this is just sort of back of
the envelope there's some different approaches here if you're going to
stream you can do it Progressive or you can do it uh block based if you're doing
sort of a progressive stream as soon as the data comes in you send it out again
when you do that you can't really do any compression you can't compress that
means you're going to have a lot of data you're going to need a really highspeed connection that's not good news for a
wireless connection because wireless connections can't handle as much data as a wired connection if you're going to
send it in chunks it becomes how fast you can encode each chunk of data so
like let's say hypothetically you've got something running at 10 frames per
second well why 10 frames per second because it makes the math easy so 10
frames per second is about 100 milliseconds per frame and if your chunk
size is one frame it gets a frame in it has to convert it that takes 100
milliseconds you've added 100 milliseconds of latency so even if you
have something that runs at 60 frames per second you're adding one 160th of
second a second of latency to encode that and and send it down the wire even
if it can run at 60 frames a second so you need something absurdly fast if
you're going to compress it and do something with it that can you know if you only want to add 1 millisecond of
latency it has to run at a th000 frames per second it has to be able to process
a frame in a millisecond because that's the delay that it adds now to be clear
for the viewers Wendell is not talking about FPS like frames per second in
terms of GPU processing he's talking about it in terms of encoding
performance so that is taking the larger image and compressing it and packing it
into something that is much less data intensive so the the way that we measure
that is also in frames per second so just just so that's clear for everyone
so sorry wend keep going no yeah no that's that's exactly right because um
you get into a situation where you just physically the thing physically can't
keep up and you know people you know Pro Gamers say that they can feel you know 5
10 milliseconds I I don't think any human being can really feel the
difference much less than about 20 or 25 milliseconds but 20 25 milliseconds I
mean you can get a lot of those time slots in a 1second period and so it
sounds like that the shield and the PS4 maybe are using different kinds of
technology and so I think it's going toi a different consumer experience very
interesting I mean we know that the reason NVIDIA is only allowing gam
stream on Kepler gpus with their Hardware based encoder is that they have
dedicated Hardware on the graphics card that is handling this in order to keep
the latencies low enough so whatever Sony has done um probably isn't that so
I think you're right it's very fair to say that they're using a completely
different implementation one other thing one other real problem I have with
Sony's implementation regardless of how they're doing the encoding is that the
PS4 only uses 2.4 GHz that is single
band wireless n which means that as much
as this demo might work on you know in a
keynote or the demo might work in a reviewer's office where there's one
other Wi-Fi network wait till someone turns a microwave on wait till someone
turns a microwave on wait till someone yeah exactly you bring your you bring
your Vita into the kitchen to like you know microwave your pizza pop and you
want to play your game while you wait yeah good luck with that and then wait till someone in an apartment buys a PS4
and aita and there's 100 wireless hotspots within range this is just plain
old not going to work yeah it's the wireless situation is going to be really
bad even if you even if everything is ideal if you have two devices going at
the same time all of unless your wireless access point is a really
high-end commercial access point that has multiple radios um almost all the
the access points out there have trouble sending and receiving multiple streams
that's why like the you know triple antenna receiver blah blah blah was sort
of in Vogue a couple years ago and it's still around with like the Dual Band 2.4
and 5 GHz that kind of thing mitigates the problem but the 2.4 only even if you
get two devices they're going to be competing with one another and it's like
the hardware implementations of dealing with that competition is only just dirty
dirty hacks and it doesn't really work and for something like streaming it's
it's you can't even watch Netflix yep no
you're you're absolutely absolutely right I mean NVIDIA just plain old says
Nope you don't have you don't have a 5 GHz wireless connection so we're just
not even just you press it and it just says Nope uh they they just say look you
need this router deal with it whereas Sony I think by allowing quote unquote
better compatibility is actually going to be hurting the enduser experience
yeah yeah they would have to have a com like a like a hardware h26 4 encoder or
something in Hardware that can run at like 100 150 frames per second just to
make that come out and that's probably not an inexpensive piece of
Hardware yeah so I mean you know some
thought some thoughts there now okay what what we also did just for just for
fun is we did a bit of a cost Showdown here so maybe I'll let you talk about
this loot because you worked on it okay so we compared a few things so PS Vita I
looked I looked on new eggs so we had more rounded out numbers so this assumes
you don't own aita cuz as far as I've never actually seen one in someone's
hands so there uh PS feed is about 200
bucks and a shield is about 300 bucks on their own so if you got that but then
you need the other Hardware to run them so I looked into it and said Okay a PS4
is about $3.99 so with a PS v it's about
$5.99 as a combo because I looked around and didn't see any combos for that but
and we may see bundles we may see bundles so bundles will change the
landscape somewhat so okay go ahead um
and then Shield is about 2 99 as we know
but if you buy it with a graphics card so let's say a 770 you can get a GTX 770
a shield um Batman Arham
Origins why am I forget spinter Cell Blacklist and Assassin's Creed 4 Black
Flag so you're getting three games all for 549 and if you wanted to buy so
that's that's $5.99 for a PS4 and a Vita or 549 for 770 a shield three games and
if you wanted those three games with the PlayStation it would would be around
$750 so that's pretty compelling looking expensive PC gaming is starting to look
like it makes a whole lot of sense and if we see NVIDIA support something like
mantle I mean NVIDIA's future even more than we saw already maybe in Solutions
and their mobile processors even more than we already knew because if they go
and support mantle with this we could be looking at a situation where you can
take a crap CPU your old machine you can
buy a graphics card you can get a shield
or some other mobile platform from NVIDIA that supports this
technology and have a great gaming experience that's really competitive
with the price and performance of a console and just makes well actually
makes console's performance just look stupid can I get a shout out to the PC
Master race I know right well the just the
thing of it is I've been using Shield pretty extensively lately I don't find
much time to game I don't find much time when I'm sitting at my computer I'm usually uploading videos or something or
like researching topics for the W show it's hard for me to be at my computer
and just play a game whereas I got an Invidia shield and I've actually almost
finished Batman Arkham City in the last couple weeks I'm actually find because I
can I can play with it in bed it works am amazingly well you need a beast
router you really do even my EA 4200 just choked on it I needed to get an
ASUS rtn 66u which is like super two
thumbs up for that router um but it is an amazing experience and people need to
need to get it like uh we had a we have a new camera guy that just started he's
an intern and he was he was filming uh I
was talking about these Bluetooth MGA power controllers that um give your your
your battery life a bit of a boost on your phone and they clip to your phone so you can play Android games and it's
like $80 for the high-end one and I and I showed him a shield he's like what's
that thing I'm like oh well it's like got a genuinely console grade controller
it plays your Android games and you can stream games from your computer and play
them on here and he's like w Really
NVIDIA is just so terrible at marketing to mainstream they just have no idea
that this exists I think that um when the steam
box takes off you're going to see a lot more peripherals like that and I think
that it's going to get a lot more it's it's going to get a lot more visibility
but the the the problem I guess that probably steam has right now is that
you've got NVIDIA that has a lot of these really cool Innovative things but
they're kind of expensive which is not good for an appliance from an appliance
standpoint and you have AMD who's sort of bringing the rain with very
inexpensive Hardware on both CPU and GPU side that can really bring it home which
is going to be much better suited for a console like PC
Appliance yep that's very very true so
you know whether I mean okay so NVIDIA's benef so if we're going to go pros and
cons list NVIDIA is going to have gam stream and then AMD by by proxy so
through Steam OS is going to have the console mode of game stream which he
also supports if you get a weird adapter and whatever whatever whatever so it's
going to be basically do I want to pay more to have the mobile experience on
top of the couch experience or do I want the value optimized solution that spanks
the consoles in terms of performance and you know in terms of having all these
Indie Games in this huge game library but doesn't support mobile at the same
time someone could make an open platform style of a shield so a really really
similar product that's still running Android but then isn't down to a GPU but
then NVIDIA's strength a lot of the time is in their proprietariness For Better
or For Worse it's the fact that I mean we were joking about this earlier as
much as this stream is going to be once Wendell leaves we have a bunch more AMD
stuff where we're going to be like r r ra AMD um stuff like raptor is not
competitive with stuff like GeForce experience stuff like AMD's
implementation of stereoscopic 3D and we can talk all day about whether stereoscopic 3D matters or not and I
think we're going to all come to the same conclusion that no one cares um but
it wasn't comp comptitive with 3D Vision NVIDIA is great at delivering a great
experience within their closed ecosystem but then open platforms can sometimes
have that shining jewel in the dust there can usually there not usually
there can sometimes be the open platform that is better than proprietary platform
and if you make something like that it is possible that some big group will step behind it like maybe Splashtop they
could maybe be the back end so there's a company behind it that could push it forward and it could still make it some
of AMD stuff that's open platform is still very strong you know it's
interesting you mentioned Splashtop because um I the I have an iPad and on
the iPad I have Splashtop and I've experimented with it and on newer iPads
it is actually disturbingly fast but on
when I'm on an access point that's only 2.4 GHz it is a completely different
experience than when it's on 5 GHz yeah
I mean I think we can sorry go ahead people would have to have the right Hardware implementations all around to
make it work and if Splashtop made some like very
optimized uh application sources for running games it could maybe be better
and they they could have it like in gaming mode or something so it works
that way better something in the future but like for for an open platform to
work like that there would be need to be some big backer I mean I think the networking guys have to be licking their
chops right now yeah because all this technology is going to rely on people to
finally go and upgrade their Wireless G routers because up until now web
browsing why you know um there is a
wireless there is a piece of Wireless technology that I have I have actually been impressed with and it's it's
mundane but and I think you'll be surprised but it's the Dell Wireless
dock for their latitudes it's like some sort of high frequency it's like 8 GHz
or something special and I'm used to you know a good docking solution but it's
got a range of like 6 feet it literally if it's more than 6 ft away from the
dock it doesn't work but it can deliver you know the on the docking station I
I've got three you know 1920 x 1200 uh monitor outputs and USB 3 and all these
really high-speed peripherals and it sort of freaks me out that I don't have to plug the laptop into anything and
that's a nice technology that's pretty awesome actually I hav but the range is
terrible but the range is terrible you know what uh Samsung had something
similar with their Central Station um I don't think they were using high
frequency they were using a proprietary USB 3 of some sort I I'm I did a video
about it a long time ago I can't remember how it worked cuz it was prohibitively expensive but I it it was
a very very similar concept where the idea was that you just brought your PC
within range and and then it had a dongle that you had to plug into the PC
it was USB based because uh whereas Dell
I guess can just build this functionality into their laptops but
when you brought it in range you were able able to wirelessly transmit you
know all the signaling for your peripherals and uh an Ethernet and
display uh to from the laptop to the display where it would act as as a hub
that you could plug everything into so this kind of stuff is very very much the
future I'm excited about Wireless I've hated Wireless for a long time Wireless
AC even actually addresses a lot of my issues with it have you have you played
around with AC much yeah at home I've got the um I've got a Cisco commercial
grade um Wireless AC access point and
cuz yeah I don't I don't want to fool around wow that's awesome what do one of
those run you um they're well if you get them retail they're about a th bucks but
if you know a guy you can get them for about 300 all
right you've actually peaked my interest with that $300 price point
yeah yeah yeah well it turns out if you want to paint the neighborhood with the
signal that's what you need all righty then fascinating okay
well yeah know what I think that was pretty much it for the topics that we
had lined up uh I would love for guys
let let Logan give give Logan a big thank you so uh I think it's Tech
Syndicate on Twitter for for allowing us to have some of Wendell's time you know
I know that that you guys are an awesome tag team over there and we've had Logan
on the show before it's been a total pleasure to have you you've been
requested so much so I want to you know
thank you your team collectively both Logan and you for being generous enough
to lend us some of your time and some of your expertise this has been absolutely
fantastic oh no problem anytime anytime
uh it's it's all good I'll I'll let him know that I'm being returned in slightly
used condition but it's okay we haven't abused you too much here have
we no no it's all good twitch chat tell
Wendell he's great okay you know we don't we we don't want to beat him up
over here yeah everyone says come back come back we can't live without you yeah
they they love you so thank you very much man remember guys you can watch
Wendell over on the tech Syndicate YouTube channel which is
youtube.com/ ra theor with that o being a zero which I've teased him about
endlessly I was like dude what what were you thinking but now it's too late so
there you go he's stuck with it so I'll talk to you soon man take care thanks
all right take care all right so let's move oh our
sponsor break I remembered for a change
oh what do I do just close it close it got it all right sponsor breaks time so
guys our sponsor for this show is generously Hotspot Shield the easyvpn
solution that you can get 20% off of their Elite prices by using offer code
Linus it apparently is a little bit complicated to use offer code Linus so
um guys uh in the video description I will post a link to the Forum thread
where I will post instructions for how to take advantage of it I've actually
been using Hotspot Shield I had to use it to order Google Glass in fact but um
no no don't worry it's shipped okay
yeah wait until it's yeah no no don't worry it's it's a done deal so because
Google Glass Explorer Edition is only available to us residents um what
happens is I had to get an invite which Marcus brownley was generous enough to
to get over to me then I had to use a VPN to even go to the link that was in
my invite then I had to get Austin Evans
Austin not Duncan on uh on Twitter okay I had to get Austin Evans to generously
let me use his credit card okay cuz I had to have a us-based
credit card then didn't know that part okay get this get this okay I had to
have it shipped to my old ocz sales rep
okay back from when I you worked at NC
okay cuz I'm going to her wedding okay so I had to get it shipped there and
then I'm going to go pick it up next week oh no so anyway Hotspot Shield
allowed me to coordinate all of this by actually confirming the link and being
logged into my account and spoofing that I was based out of the US by using a
us-based Hotspot Shield address so
Hotspot Shield allows you to uh to fake
where you're from get around geographical restrictions and uh and
basically we necessarily recommend doing those things in most situations and
protect your privacy online making it much more difficult for anyone who is
trying to to find out who you are and where you're from and so there's all
kinds of crazy stuff you can do with vpns or you can just use it to get us
Netflix which is I think what a lot of people do so guys one more time thanks
to Hotspot Shield for providing our VPN solution here as well as for sponsoring
the show and giving us 20% off to offer to you guys when you're using offer code
Linus and not that we necessarily recommend cheating the system to get us
Netflix either we're just observing that
many of you might many of you do that I saw it posted about on the Forum or
something um so Squarespace isn't a sponsor today but I do actually want to
point out something so guys last week we announced that Squarespace was doing a
design your own win your own website thing so all you got to do is sign up
for the trial at squarespace.com and then submit it to me with #p what was
the hashtag okay go back to last week's W show and check out the hashtag if you
tweet it with that hashtag then you will have a chance I'm going to announce
sometime this week the winner so you will win your website for a year they
handle all the hosting and all that so I just wanted to remind you guys about
that so let one thing before you start going when I was reading off the games
whenever I read SC I Starcraft my brain
stops and will not go past St I was even
thinking it when I typed it I was thinking it when I typed it I was like I'm going to think of star and it's SCB
so it's like Starcraft yeah and then and then there's then there's Bao and I'm
like black something else what no okay so yeah
sorry about that so lost I knew what they were too but I was just reading
those acronyms my head just completely froze yeah SC2 also Supreme Commander 2
which I never got because I was always thinking Starcraft yeah man okay anyways
so yeah so anyway we we're going to have Google Glass so that's a thing that's
going to be really cool I can't believe my new genen Kindle paper white arrived
today remember how long ago I ordered that stupid thing a month and I was like
yeah I want to do an unboxing while it's still
relevant yeah it was like 6 weeks it's like ridiculous it's like thanks thanks
for that Amazon they shipped they shipped the cover for it back when I
order I don't even know where it is anymore I haven't seen it in a long time
me neither it's probably under a pile of things ridiculous anyway I love Amazon a
lot but some things I don't love so let's just move on to our next topic
here which is ah yes more AMD news of
course AMD has updated the never settle forever progr a super confusing way in a
super confusing way because back when never settle came out it was like look
this is great buy all the graphics cards get all the games you love it and we did
we did boy did we ever love it definitely oh we loved
it okay so now it is about the most
confusing chart that I've ever seen in my life which you know I've seen a lot
of confusing charts in my life oh wait before we keep going we should do a Twitter Blitz after this or something
yeah okay so guys Twitter Blitz something we did end up having time cuz
Wendell was an amazing guest and we wanted to talk to him about all the
things so we didn't end up getting to do a Twitter Blitz with him but let's just
do like random Q&A hit us all
right so first of all there's this graphic which is like okay what so
r9270 and up to R9 290x has Battlefield
4 with a checkbox maybe maybe which is confusing because AMD is providing codes
to retailers maybe maybe depending on
the qu to qualifying retailers and the retailers will at their discretion
bundle this game with their cards maybe
maybe while supplies last maybe maybe so
basically unless you have verified that
the retailer you're buying from is providing that game with that card
nothing is guaranteed okay then r7260x
so the only one out of the new generation cards to be added to never
settle forever officially even though some retailers have been doing never
settle Forever on New Gen cards such as NC um which is why I got confused and
was saying that it was on it because NCIX was shipping them anyway so that
has been added to the silver never settle forever which means you get two
games okay so hold on a second it's not over yet folks so I I don't even know
what this is I'm using the stupid Metro
uh Internet Explorer so I don't even I don't know what I'm doing right now so
let's go ahead and open this again oh this is a yeah it looks so Chrome like
now really annoying yeah I'm I'm I'm not happy okay
so there okay so there's that so then never settle forever has also been
altered okay so let's scroll down and let's open up this graph so this is from
videoc cards.com just so that we make sure we're we're crediting the source
because I didn't make these graphs mind you I don't think they necessarily made
all of them either all right so they have added Thief to never settle forever
but only in the silver and gold tiers I mean talk about tier full not
the 200 tier or whatever not the bronze
tier so you can pick in the bronze tier one game out of the list of qualifying
games which is not BF so BF4 is only on r9200 series not available in never
settle forever doesn't include Tomb Raider doesn't include Thief okay but
you can pick one of any of these then in the silver tier you can pick two of any
of these but not Tomb Raider okay not Tomb Raider not BF4 and then the gold
tier you can pick three of any of them except not BF4
so AMD we love you thank you for giving
us all the games but you're naming conventions and your little weird naming
schemes and category things is not
really working out they asked me to
settle they asked me to settle for one game or two you know what got me too is
we were talking about like the R9 R7 thing a bunch and how like certain ones
should probably be moved into categories and stuff why is an r7260x in the same
category as an r7240 exactly I agree with you 100% what the
hell I mean we love you AMD the graphics cards are great we just wish you'd call
them something else and the other thing to is the whole never settle and we're better at game bundles thing um feels a
little bit Hollow when NVIDIA is doing their holiday promotion which is Beast
is all hell yeah Assassin's Creed Black Flag uh Splinter Cell Blacklist black
light Black List Black List and then Batman Arkham Origins on the higher tier
card so you're getting two to three games so for 290x versus is 780 hold on
a minute you might get Battlefield 4 or
you will get these three games that are also compelling and you will get $100
off of of a shield which is also a compelling experience so it's like now
we're settling but then mantle but then mantle 20 to 50% more performance
potentially then maybe mantle on NVIDIA but then power consumption and noise but
then maybe NVIDIA is going to and then what if you want gsync it's a great time
to buy a graphics card because it's hard to make a wrong decision because they're
just all gonna be awesome yeah pretty much all right so this is this is
something that's actually GNA be a bit of a quick topic here but speaking of
Microsoft um we actually talked about their stupid publicity stunt where they
put a giant Xbox One in a parking lot in Vancouver here's another one oh my a you
piece of garbage okay so um they're putting an Xbox One in New Zealand so so
so whoever whoever gets this Xbox One the lucky winner will get to be I'm just
going to turn the volume off because I have no idea how loud it is I'm I'm
sorry in advance how is this not working
how is it not working there you go
anyway find the Sharks cuz I want sharks
with freaking laser beams attached to their heads how complicated is this so
the first person in the world to get an Xbox one will be someone in New Zealand
who wins this one that they're actually putting into a shark tank that has
something like 20 sharks in it so it's like not a trivial number of sharks um I
think that's really all there is to say about it yeah it's even than the Press
who have them yeah even well yeah even in the video they're like oh well we
don't know who's going to go get it I'm assuming it's going to be the
same divers that went down to put it in but it was just kind of funny yeah I mean it's it'd be you know what a
liability problem that would be if someone actually like went in there and
tried to get it and died that' be pretty epic and if there was anywhere where
that would happen it would be down under no I'm I mean I think I think
Australians and New Zealand ERS would be the first to admit that I know but just
last week attacking the sheep and then now calling them crazy well I love those
guys I okay think about it this way you guys the time slot that we have for the
W show have we not demonstrated we love you I think Australia and New Zealand
actually have the best time slot for the wi show our own time Z on time on our
own time zone gets the B it's terrible because it's like starts at 4:30 when
everyone's still at work yeah I know right it's like uh Timmy Timmy tech TV
was like hey lonus I uh can never watch your show anymore it's like I thought we
were friends B just like sorry dude all
right uh so this last topic before the Twitter Blitz what is it doing I don't
know look at what I'm doing I like touch here and I try to scroll just like
changed are you are you swiping left maybe if it
goes no no no I thought that might have been a thing unbelievable okay so
Samsung and Intel find 36 more companies to back selected all of this by swiping
left and for there well that's ridiculous uh left and right there oh I hate it all right so Samsung and Intel
finds 36 more companies to back Tien their Android
competitor so it's an open- based Linux based open- based open source Linux I'm
I you know what I should just leave open source Linux based operating system it's
got some interesting backers so the new companies backing it include eBay Konami
macafe Panasonic and The Weather Channel so if I've ever seen a rag tag group of
companies to band together and supp
something that yeah is confusing which is like Intel again because maffy is
owned by Intel um okay so the cool some of the cool
things about it it'll allow developers to work in CSS HTML 5 and JavaScript
which is interesting but is that a security issue kind of weird yeah yeah
it's like kind of random and seems to open up a lot open up more doors than it
closes so to speak uh performance has been shown off before and if I had my
other laptop I would play this YouTube video for you but they just they like
look at a gallery which uses all the most useless possible things like
putting pictures on a cube and then they call someone okay yes and I know it's like
how do you show it off but like dude it's on crappy Hardware though so so
Samsung showed it off on something like a Galaxy S2 and they were doing some
cool I mean the cool thing about it was that it was an HTML 5 based app as
opposed to being I think they both were I think even the calling was so so
that's really neat um is this going to
topple the mighty Google Empire
no one thing that I noticed was with the companies that backed it sorry to cut
you off there no I I wasn't talking anymore I just said no yeah that was it
I was done one thing I noticed about the companies that are backing it are
they're all companies that Google is basically trying to just circumvent and
being like nope this is our own thing like The Weather Channel Google's kind
of doing their own thing maffy they're kind of starting to bundle their own
thing like it's it's all it's all stuff that that they're Google is trying to
get rid of so they're all like oh maybe we should back this thing over here it
is kind of like but it isn't going to work I'm a lot more interested in
something like Ubuntu phone I actually you know what I actually just cleared
this with uh with Brandon and I'm going to borrow his Galaxy Nexus because that
happens to be one of the two phones no no I'm going to I'm going to finish last
one yeah his old yeah his Galaxy Nexus so I'm going to finish my Nexus 5 review
and then as long as nothing else arrives I'm going to man guys xeria Z1 and Nexus
5 are really making me miss my HTC1 I can't wait to get it back I'm actually
going to throw Cyanogen mod on it hopefully as long as I can get
everything sufficiently unlocked cuz I don't have a play story Edition one oh
so but I have a I have an early developer one my my original one oh so
that might be compat I don't know anyway so I'm going to ask Brandon to let me
borrow his Galaxy Nexus and I'm going to try a bun phone I I'll do like a 30-day
look I'll I'll give this a shot you have to remember that it's going to be slow
and the battery life's not going to be that good it's not going to be's fault I know but I'm I just want to try it I
want to be like okay well look what if I want to play Pac-Man can I you those
kinds of things if I want to check the weather can I so I find that very
exciting u i mean Ubuntu has the the
resources and they have the track record of delivering free operating systems for
Better or For Worse and getting support and and building and the improvements
that they've been doing and like the cons like Mass consumer usability of
Linux that Ubuntu has been spearheading for a while is been really they claim to
be the OS on 10% of new PCS shipping
today that's unbelievable well it's not North America but but overall I don't
care North America whatever like I'm just I'm just saying that that's why
it's probably so unbelievable yeah that's extremely exciting that's extremely exciting yeah so let's go
ahead and head over to the uh the Twitter boards um someone says get mubot
or any bot in chat we had muot it was a big problem it's it's a really big
problem yeah about the smart fridge how about implementing RFID tags on products
which will hold data expired dat in ingredients absolutely that would be
amazing huge deal or even like if you
okay think about this if you could like grab apples or something and instead of
the traditional twist tie you can bring your own thing of RFID twist ties you
tie it up and they have a little programmer there or you use your phone
or something and you just go buying apples today Boop yeah and like anything
that's like that you could do with your phone or your own little twist Tire or whatever you just brought up and then
like milk it could just be programmed into the barcode on the milk like it's
and then and then with coupled with the Amazon thing the day your milk expires
some dude could show up with milk and be like yep throw your old milk away here's
new milk wouldn't that be amazing awesome um zodiac soulmate says ASUS
just te teased the Mars 760 yeah um
could it be something about NVIDIA's Kepler licens other manufacturers no no I don't think so I think it's just one
of those things where these dual GPU cards don't sell particularly well and the engineering that goes into them is
unbelievable the cost of it like ASUS loses money on every Mar card 100% trust
me they do wouldn't be surprised at all they do I mean the amount of money that
it took to even build the stupid heat sink on Aries too the amount of
revisions they did to even tool that thing like they lost money it totally
money losing proposition Mar 760 um is a
similar so that's why no one does it we actually have one coming cool yeah it's
interesting I I looked at it it's interesting have you seen like the
concept photos for the no I haven't even seen it no not not for this for uh it's
fake I'm oh we for Black coming too oh
cool that's actually pretty cool um but yeah someone someone leaked concept
photos for a dual 290x GPU card oh yeah
and they just like added a fan to $79.90 and it's like super
long I was like there's no way there's like one case that that canit that card
would have to be liquid cool like dual rad liquid cool yeah they have four fans
on it like okay just upgraded to a 477k
from a Pentium 4 good work Andrew enjoy
that do you think that smartphones would become the new laptop um if Wireless
standards like what Wendell's talking about with docking stations become a
thing and something like Ubuntu phone maybe yeah because with Ubuntu
phone you dock and it turns into a full OS and if we can have steam running on
it all of a sudden we can game on it and more like a desktop experience I think
the future is very exciting yeah uh what do you think about famous YouTubers like
total biscuit disabling YouTube comments I think that it's great that they're
trying to send a message to Google and YouTube I think that Google and YouTube
probably have some idea that it's a problem at this point um one thing
that's interesting is unbox therapy somehow has the old comment system on
his channel and he has a Facebook post the only YouTube channel that still has
the old comment system I don't know how he did it but uh awesome I suspect he
won't even tell me because he just like trade secret or something or maybe he
just like luckily didn't get bumped I don't even know what it is but anyway um
I think it's important that they're sending a message and that's cool I think YouTube and Google know and
they'll do something um and for me personally I don't see the difference
between disabled comments and spam comments that we can just all not look
at i h i hate the new comment system but
the main reason why I hate the new comment system is when you see the top dude it's like 300 comments on his post
they can fix it so easily though there's things that they can do and it can be
better so let's just let's just give them a chance um and I'm not going to
hurt my own search rankings to send a message to Google and YouTube that they
already know not going to change anything like people so someone said uh
you should disable it let people talk about on the Forum okay go talk about on
the Forum I would love for you to go talk on the Forum but the reality of it is is that
YouTube comments are and I believe always will be lowest common denominator
people who aren't willing to go and talk about it on the Forum you can have a way
more intelligent conversation about any of the videos we make on our Forum 100%
okay and and if you post if there's a problem with the video like in a very
video if you post something like that on the Forum like I reply to those all the
time there's a reply under that one saying like oh this is what's wrong this
is what the change should be no one saw it no one liked it the Forum is the way
to interact to with us people send me YouTube private messages I'm like what
what are you high I get hundreds of them I can't look at all these whereas when I
get private messages on the Forum I try to respond to them if there's something to be responded to if it's just like
YOLO swag 420 Linus I think you're awesome I'll be like yeah okay cool user
on the Forum yellow yellow swag 420 smoke it I think every single time I see
him post on anything I'm just like oh my brain uh should I expect some sweet
deals on new genen cards around Christmas this year I would stay tuned
for Black Friday that's where you'll actually get thewe I'm excited I've
heard tons of rumors I don't know if you've heard about this Note 3 on Black
Friday is supposed to like be super cheap huh that's cool like actually
sensibly purchasable cheap which heat sink should I get with a node 605 um
Noctua has a really nice low profile one that we will be unboxing soon and then
installing in edel's video editing rig I forget what it's called though L
something basically find the noct a low profile one all this this is my answer
what cooler should I get find the Noctua one that fits Noctua did not pay me to
say this although I uh no I'm not going to talk about lonus what do you think of
the PS4 red line of death I think that the the rumors of its death have been
greatly exaggerated the the number that's being
thrown around right now is 4% which is within not a h deal any information on
lonus Edition Corsair fans I have no plans for Corsair fans lonus Edition
fans would you rather eat a piece of your old garlic bread or rub Sriracha on
your face and kiss lick I've probably eaten year old garlic bread before so
I'm going to go with that hook up the graphics card cooling
Loop to an AC during winter equals winning um you know what I actually
brought the chiller the other day it's here now you know do you know anyone who
can do metal fabrication yes let's get it done it won't be cheap all that's
fine let's get it done let's make an enclosure so that we can I know someone
who can make custom cases for us entire computer cases okay let's get a case for
the chiller the challenge I had before was that I needed appropriate insulation
on the tank for the cold side that was the issue I had before but if we could
make a case for it it would be heavy we could put it on Wheels though but we
need to get it self-contained cuz that's the only reason I don't use it they can
cat it for us and everything okay let's do it it won't be cheap okay are we
talking $10,000 not cheap or are we talking $1,000 not cheap probably like
the lower one okay I have no idea though
um hook okay have you heard the alarm clock that tells you how long you've got
left to live no that's awesome Squarespace win a
website event # o crap yeah I know what are your thoughts of the wallet
replacement coin card haven't actually seen that
interesting I'm from New Zealand I bet they hid the Xbox in Auckland it's it's
in a it's in the yeah it's not not hidden all right so back to the show uh
the humble store is up this is pretty cool um this is both cool and it seems
like sort of a step in a direction that that I don't want them to go yeah oh
yeah like what the devil is this exactly um fixed percentage of sales sharing at
10 which is like so this is what just
happened what is this thing
doing it's taking inputs and it's not putting them to the right place well it
should stop that
like okay why don't you just use a real browser why am I in that browser Now
where's the other one I hate this I saw you just open that one I hate my life
well I don't hate my life I just hate this just use a you've got look real
browser I know but I have it open here and I'm logged in okay there we go I
don't even know what I did well you dragged down from the top back to Humble Bundle I'm trying to click on the okay
so the original Humble Bundle concept okay indie games um we want to support
Indie developers you choose a charitable
donation money to give to the Indie Game Dev or money to give to the Humble
Bundle organization that was the original concept okay then we got the
humble weekly sale which is whatever it
is it's basically an excuse to run two bundles at the same time as far as I can
tell and then the humble store which is not bundles it is games that you buy and
instead of choosing where the money goes now it is 10% of the proceeds go to
charity period period have we have we lost our way a little bit here uh one
thing about this is we never see big AAA new titles on the Humble Bundle okay and
this has Splinter Cell Blacklist Red fashion collection far C
Cry 3 blood Dragon for like 10 bucks just like $5 off which is like it's a
deal but it's not that compelling and why am I giving you 10% for this I mean
basically they're just leveraging the traffic that they got by being good guys
and becoming a steam competitor they're still being good guys cuz there's 10%
going and I and I think it would probably be harder to get developers to
jump on the store idea so that's probably where it has to go they
probably have to have slightly bigger margins because they're probably have the people in the store taking more they
can probably promise the developer higher margin this way as well whereas
Humble Bundle is just like okay freefor all but Humble Bundle has traditionally
been either indie or if it's AAA it's old like my understanding is that EA had
a lot of the contributions not go to EA
as compared other humble bundles this is I'm not going to say who I heard this
from but I heard it so people were less
inclined to give someone like EA money that was in the EA bundle the only
really compelling thing was Battlefield 3 and they were replacing it in like a
month or two but that's not and they basically gave it away for free now
that's not even the point necessarily I mean the point is that people were
willing to pay money for the game they just weren't willing to give it to EA
whereas if EA sells games through humble store then at least they're guaranteed
some kind of a cut yeah so I understand the business here it just seems like um
it just see it just seems like they aren't what they used to be so let's just be aware of that which doesn't make
humble bundles not a great deal it just makes them not what they used to be
that's all we have 5,000 live viewers right now guys thank you for watching
that is amazing you guys are awesome that is all all right uh
let's I want my laptop back I don't know why my DisplayPort output isn't working
okay anyways do you want to go on another Ranch you talking about
kiat no no no no you know what actually
my problems with Nexus 5 so far have nothing to do with Kit Kat oh I like
kitat okay no actually all the things I'm going to [ __ ] about are more to do
with other stuff oh um so I have a review coming at the Nexus 5 for those
of you who don't follow me on Instagram which I think is most of you um KitKat
Android 4.4 has a feature that will allow rooting to basically be disabled
which we've heard before rooting this is rooting going away reading but it may
actually be true this time I wanted to talk with Wendell about this shoot I
meant to move this up to our guest segment yeah cuz he had some really interesting input I have read already
that the Nexus 5 is already rooted right but this article so the article on PC
pcmag.com okay no I don't want to sign up for your offers go away all right so
there's a picture of an Android made of Kit Kat bars I need food I am so hungry
like my blood sugar is low and I shouldn't even be on the air right now
so what has been built into Android 4.4
KitKat essentially is the ability for a
handset maker to block rooting now there are security implications here there are
reasons why you wouldn't want root access to be available to just about
anyone because rooting has become so easy that it's not even just for power
users anymore that really understand the implications of the like I'm not a power
user when it comes to phones and when it comes to digital security not really I
actually rely on on him in a big way to
support me and help me with these kinds of things because I know some I know
just enough to be dangerous and that is exactly what phone rooting can be it can
be just people who know just enough to be dangerous but don't know enough to
know how to protect themselves and I'm not saying rooting should be taken away
from the power users I'm just saying that it's a can of worms so what they're
going to allow is someone like Samsung who has been locking down functionality
on their phones left and right to basically go look this phone is not
rootable okay now Google has not opted to make
the Nexus 5 unrootable in fact there was a route for it before it was released
and it's apparently phenomenally easy so I think they're doing a couple of things
here so number one is they're positioning Nexus devices as the clear
power user choice because I think they know that whatever they think about it
there's going to be certain handset makers that are going to want to lock this down number two is they are
allowing Android to be potentially more secure on platforms where handset makers
feel like they can get away with it and so Samsung so like Samsung I think this
is interesting for senen mod because
they just tried to be like oh hey everyone we're going to make that way
easier Implement implementation we're going to make one click a thing we're
going to make all this other kind of stuff and then now Google's like L
here's this thing although they're not putting on Nexus devices which is kind of cool I'm still to try it I'm becoming
more and more of a phone guy all the time so this is my first experience with
vanilla Android Android experience um
I'm going to be trying out uh ubu phone at some point I'm going to try out
Cyanogen MOD as soon as I get my HTC1 back um but I'm I'm excited I'm I'm like
I'm getting to the point where I can make observations about phones that aren't just stupid are you leaving how
are we getting all the gear there on
Monday okay we'll figure it out we have a shoot on Monday so um I
don't I will be benchmarking games our next topic is
is AMD to
bring
wow just oh so this was posted on the
Forum by top war gamer and the original articles from polygon.com so AMD to
release tress effects 2.0 animates grass and
fur so now we can have loft's hair and
grass animated by Tres effects wow you
just made that joke well I kind of had to wow all right so trust FX um oh
God I mean there's good things about it so it's supported on both AMD and NVIDIA
so that's a thing it's phenomenally performance intensive uh I mean on
lowend cards what kind of performance Deltas were you seeing it almost halfed
it like not quite but like close on
something like a 260x on the on the r7240 video you'll notice that it's it's
pretty high setting but with TR effects off so that's a real barrier um I mean
mantle may may alleviate these issues somewhat and improve the performance of
it it's like I thanked everyone for being here and that we had 5,000 viewers
and it went like all the way down to like 4700 for a bit there it's like yeah
well you know whatever L us screw you man well actually I think it's just that
the stream started late so people are and we're currently at yeah we're near
5,000 I'm using the xsplit number which isn't always uh which isn't always up to
date sometimes it's zero I mean the other problem that I have with tres so
besides the performance hit maybe mantle can alleviate this but it probably won't
on NVIDIA because even though effects works on NVIDIA blah blah blah they
won't have mantle unless they Implement mantle so it's all up in the air right now is that the game list is a little
bit ghost town I mean I criticize physx
I do I I have criticized physx many times in the past not because it isn't
great technology it is it's cool it could have ushered in a new era of
gameplay if it hadn't been tied first to a proprietary PCI addin card and then to
one GPU maker but I'm going to criticize trust effects for the same thing right
now the the the game list is is Tomb
Raider but and Tomb Raider yeah and I
don't even mean Tomb Raider and the old Tomb Raider I mean Tomb Raider 2013
edition and Tomb Raider 2013 edition that's the problem I I will be so I will
I will pray to the gods of gaming if
freaking Elder Scroll 6 comes with tress effects 2.0 because grass and fur
random in an Elder Scrolls game Tres effect style would be amazing mods can
already make it really cool but adding Tres effects to that and then allowing
people to mod it like holy crap imagine
imagine the grass mods that some people have been doing to Skyrim but with trust
effects that would kill any system you have for
one but for two would look amazing
likeus what's cool about mantle too though is we could be looking at a
completely different way of interacting with multi-GPU system
so you could kind of go yeah no this is my tressfx card and this is my this and
this is my that and you throw like three different gpus in your system and I mean
we're talking later on down the future but we're just talking about the way
that AMD is approaching allowing game developers to spread out resources and
leverage them the way that they want to oh it's an exciting world we haven't
even talked enough about cavar we're going to have to talk about it next week
I mean heterogeneous system architecture is going to be such a big deal allowing
the CPU and the GPU to access the memory resources they need and share
one thing that I'm super sorry to cut off a little bit one thing I'm super stoked with AMD about lately is how they
developed this awesome thing yeah like effect and like HSA and just go like
yeah sure open with HSA someone else
deal with it we'll just develop it and it's just like I mean is this a return
to the Athlon 64 days where they said look here's our 64-bit extension and
Intel go ahead well we'll license it to you obviously Intel but but basically we
want this to be a standard we worked really hard on this we'd like for people
to use it I hope they do because it could be
awesome someone just said in the chat there's already trust effect Style mods
for Skyrim but one thing that he also brought up which is very important is it
doesn't support like Collision detection and stuff right which is like a really
big deal yeah so so you know what I think we have to cut off the show now
even though we honestly had probably a dozen more topics that we would love to
talk to you guys about as always you can check out the uh the document in in the
description of the YouTube archive so if you just wanted to see what we thought
was interesting this week even if we didn't get a chance to talk about it please go ahead and do that um thank you
so much for watching guys huge thanks again to Hotspot Shield for sponsoring
the show today it's so hard for us to bring a show like this to you guys with
all the work that goes into it without sponsors to make it possible so guys if
you haven't checked out Hotspot Shield before check it out bit. lehs share and
if you wanted to use a VPN solution this particularly applicable to our outside
of the US um viewers guys for whatever
reason try it out give Hotspot Shield a chance the trial is free and if you have
any problems and you post them on the Forum Hotspot Shield has been pretty proactive about helping Linus Tech
tips.com Forum members really which again we appreciate the support you guys
that sets you apart from again we need
to make them an industry affiliate yeah we should probably do that all right
peace out guys thanks for watching are you doing an after party I am doing an Afterparty I'll cover Bill logs of the
week there sorry we didn't have time um
and I will try and cover some of the other random topics that we didn't cover
so unofficial Afterparty on the twitch.tv lukor
lafr channel so um guys I we've noticed
quite a few people are subscribing to that channel it should be noted that um
we're going to have some if you want to support awesome what we do here there
will be some better options where more of the revenue actually goes to us
it's public dollars twitch takes 50% yeah soon so if you kind of stay tuned
for that there's going to be like some really good stuff everyone says all
right screw lineus everyone over to pistol's Channel all right guys why why don't we
do that whole thing where we stop streaming and then we dump everyone okay everyone go over to pistol's channel so
pistol is uh is also a member of the tech Syndicate team so it's Logan and
Wendell Our Guest today everyone go over there and just be like YOLO Lina sent us
YOLO yeah YOLO well you do only are you
becoming edel now well I don't know I've
been I've been working with you guys for a long time I know like I've been
working with him over a year now isn't that crazy I've been working with you
over two years like are we
friends is the name of our company bad
yeah lus Media Group is a stupid name for a company