WEBVTT 00:00:00.199 --> 00:00:05.400 usb4 is an absolute Game Changer we're 00:00:03.419 --> 00:00:12.000 talking 40 gigabit per second data rates support for 8K displays and external 00:00:08.220 --> 00:00:15.240 gpus a single cable docking at up to 240 00:00:12.000 --> 00:00:17.520 watt charging rates and all over the 00:00:15.240 --> 00:00:25.439 same USB type-c connectors and cables that you have come to know into yes what 00:00:21.500 --> 00:00:27.599 actually usb4 is more like a collection 00:00:25.439 --> 00:00:33.000 of optional standards okay it sounds like what you're talking about is USB 4 00:00:30.000 --> 00:00:35.280 gen 3x2 with some of those optional 00:00:33.000 --> 00:00:39.120 features implemented so your sponsor origin pz would probably want you to 00:00:37.320 --> 00:00:43.860 clarify that so pedantic Riley is very annoying but he's 00:00:42.000 --> 00:00:47.280 also right I mean it shouldn't surprise me coming from the same industry 00:00:45.480 --> 00:00:52.379 Consortium that brought us naming like USB 3.2 gen 2x2 but five years after 00:00:51.059 --> 00:00:58.620 Intel's announcement that they would open source Thunderbolt USB 4 is finally 00:00:55.860 --> 00:01:04.500 out in force and has turned out to be one of the most confusing standards ever 00:01:01.620 --> 00:01:07.920 to make it onto a consumer PC the good news though is that by the time we're 00:01:06.180 --> 00:01:13.260 finished here you will understand both its pros and cons and how it operates or 00:01:11.700 --> 00:01:18.140 doesn't with other standards like Thunderbolt including real world 00:01:15.360 --> 00:01:18.140 examples 00:01:24.799 --> 00:01:31.500 the simple explanation really is that 00:01:27.900 --> 00:01:33.420 usb4 is an open version of Thunderbolt 3 00:01:31.500 --> 00:01:39.540 based on the specifications the Intel released back in 2017. there is a lot to 00:01:37.140 --> 00:01:43.079 love about this move for one thing it frees vendors from the shackles of 00:01:41.400 --> 00:01:49.020 Intel's notoriously onerous certification process and for another it 00:01:45.840 --> 00:01:51.479 allows non-Intel CPU manufacturers like 00:01:49.020 --> 00:01:55.680 apple or especially AMD who didn't co-develop the standard to support 00:01:53.340 --> 00:02:00.659 features that used to be Thunderbolt exclusive like 40 gigabit data rates 00:01:58.500 --> 00:02:07.140 daisy chaining together multiple devices and PCIe tunneling which is super cool 00:02:04.439 --> 00:02:12.360 and allows you to turn your USBC Port into a PCI Express connection for 00:02:09.479 --> 00:02:18.660 devices like external gpus and other add-on cards the problem is that when 00:02:16.080 --> 00:02:24.239 you free the notoriously Cheapskate computer industry from compliance 00:02:20.340 --> 00:02:27.840 programs you invite shortcuts and usb4 00:02:24.239 --> 00:02:30.120 invites a lot of shortcuts in no 00:02:27.840 --> 00:02:34.920 particular order here are the optional components of the spec that can be left 00:02:32.160 --> 00:02:40.560 off of your device while still allowing the vendor to slap usb4 on the spec 00:02:37.440 --> 00:02:43.680 sheet 40 gigabit transfer rates 20 00:02:40.560 --> 00:02:47.340 gigabit USB 3.2 Thunderbolt alternate 00:02:43.680 --> 00:02:50.819 mode USBC alternate mode and yes PCIe 00:02:47.340 --> 00:02:52.739 tunneling yeah in a world where almost 00:02:50.819 --> 00:02:57.900 nothing you can connect to a laptop needs the speed of even a last gen USB 00:02:55.379 --> 00:03:03.480 320 gig Port isn't the whole point of usb4 PCIe tunneling and interoperability 00:03:01.260 --> 00:03:08.819 with Thunderbolt 3 devices well Microsoft sure thought so which is 00:03:05.819 --> 00:03:11.760 why they actually require external usb4 00:03:08.819 --> 00:03:16.500 ports on Windows 11 devices to support PCIe tunneling which theoretically 00:03:14.400 --> 00:03:21.659 ensures backwards compatibility with Thunderbolt 3 devices but there is no 00:03:19.080 --> 00:03:26.459 such guarantee if you were to buy a bare motherboard or a non-Windows device and 00:03:24.840 --> 00:03:31.140 from my conversations with a device maker whose previous Thunderbolt 3 00:03:28.739 --> 00:03:36.840 notebook actually never ended up getting certified by Intel there is a lot more 00:03:33.959 --> 00:03:41.580 to this interoperability than just checking a box for PCIe tunneling making 00:03:39.420 --> 00:03:46.739 matters even more confusing Microsoft does not appear to have mandates in 00:03:43.799 --> 00:03:52.379 place for any of the other features the good news is that when it works it works 00:03:49.500 --> 00:03:57.599 really well here is a small bushel of Thunderbolt 3 Thunderbolt 4 and USB 4 00:03:55.080 --> 00:04:02.760 devices that we've tried on the Voyager a1600 gaming and content creation laptop 00:04:00.540 --> 00:04:06.780 that Corsair provided for this video and I'm going to show you guys what the 00:04:04.200 --> 00:04:11.519 experience is like on a usb4 laptop after the short message from our sponsor 00:04:09.000 --> 00:04:15.780 Corsair packs the Voyager a1600 with high performance gear like their 00:04:12.959 --> 00:04:20.220 Vengeance ddr5 memory and yet managed to keep it amazingly slim the integrated 00:04:18.540 --> 00:04:24.360 Elgato steam deck allows you to map streaming commands and keyboard 00:04:21.780 --> 00:04:29.040 shortcuts to 10 easy access customizable shortcut buttons using simple drag and 00:04:26.460 --> 00:04:33.360 drop customization and Corsair's IQ software lets you fully customize the 00:04:31.139 --> 00:04:36.540 system's look monitor performance and manage your Corsair devices so you can 00:04:35.040 --> 00:04:39.840 update and fine-tune the settings to your needs it comes with a one-year 00:04:38.280 --> 00:04:44.699 comprehensive warranty for peace of mind making it the Premier Choice for laptop 00:04:41.820 --> 00:04:48.540 PC gaming or content Creation in a super compact package visit the link down 00:04:46.560 --> 00:04:52.259 below to learn more for our first trick we'll be trying to connect a couple of 00:04:49.800 --> 00:04:56.639 Thunderbolt 3 devices to our USB 4 laptop and the reason this matters is 00:04:54.780 --> 00:05:00.960 because these older devices would have been designed at a time that usb4 00:04:59.220 --> 00:05:07.380 compatibility wouldn't have been a consideration so if they work it means 00:05:04.139 --> 00:05:10.919 that usb4 is transparently compatible 00:05:07.380 --> 00:05:13.020 with Thunderbolt 3 at least okay this 00:05:10.919 --> 00:05:18.660 one works for these particular devices now that first one I plugged in using a 00:05:15.540 --> 00:05:20.699 usb4 cable and the second one we're 00:05:18.660 --> 00:05:25.080 going to try an older Thunderbolt 3 cable 00:05:21.660 --> 00:05:26.940 we got it there it is Cal digit 10 gig 00:05:25.080 --> 00:05:34.199 network adapter this backwards compatibility means that any Thunderbolt 00:05:29.699 --> 00:05:36.660 3 device and USB 4 system should work 00:05:34.199 --> 00:05:41.580 with each other now I would expect to find some edge cases particularly with 00:05:39.060 --> 00:05:46.020 very old devices due to Intel specific handshakes that used to be required but 00:05:44.039 --> 00:05:50.520 we didn't run into any of them while we were working on this video now let's try 00:05:48.300 --> 00:05:53.580 a Thunderbolt 4 device in the interest of giving ourselves our best shot here 00:05:52.259 --> 00:05:57.479 we're going to go ahead and use a Thunderbolt 4 validated cable look at 00:05:56.460 --> 00:06:01.560 that easy and we don't even need that old 00:05:59.639 --> 00:06:06.479 Intel application for managing all of our connected devices I mean I expected 00:06:04.560 --> 00:06:11.880 this to work the main difference between Thunderbolt 3 and Thunderbolt 4 is 00:06:09.360 --> 00:06:17.759 actually also in enforcement of compliance so Thunderbolt 4 requires in 00:06:15.419 --> 00:06:23.280 order to get the Intel badge support for two 4K displays or a single 8K display 00:06:20.479 --> 00:06:27.000 computers must have 32 gigabit per second of PCIe bandwidth this is to 00:06:25.500 --> 00:06:30.479 address the issues folks would have with high bandwidth devices on some 00:06:28.620 --> 00:06:35.759 Thunderbolt 3 laptops particularly e-gpus and they must support security 00:06:33.840 --> 00:06:39.780 improvements that protect your device from malicious connected devices 00:06:37.759 --> 00:06:43.919 plugable.com actually has a great write-up on the differences between 00:06:41.220 --> 00:06:48.300 Thunderbolt 3 and Thunderbolt 4. what about speed though in an attempt to 00:06:45.960 --> 00:06:54.960 crack over 20 gigabit per second of transfers we are using three separate 00:06:51.000 --> 00:06:56.759 ssds and our Network share and copying 00:06:54.960 --> 00:07:02.280 all to our boot drive at the same time three more six gigabytes a second yes 00:06:59.340 --> 00:07:08.280 can confirm that we are not limited to 20 gigabit per second even though that 00:07:04.139 --> 00:07:10.319 could be the case with usb4 wow those 00:07:08.280 --> 00:07:15.120 transfers are almost all done that's really impressive those were 22 Gigabyte 00:07:12.600 --> 00:07:19.080 files mind-blowing and the most mind-blowing thing is that aside from 00:07:17.160 --> 00:07:22.979 some Cal digit devices that took a little while to be detected we didn't 00:07:20.819 --> 00:07:26.699 run into any issues using Thunderbolt devices on this laptop and those Cal 00:07:25.199 --> 00:07:31.979 digit ones they were actually just downloading drivers in the background 00:07:28.919 --> 00:07:34.199 wow but there is definitely more to know 00:07:31.979 --> 00:07:39.419 here we tested a lot of configurations and discovered not only some differences 00:07:36.419 --> 00:07:41.819 between Thunderbolt and usb4 but also 00:07:39.419 --> 00:07:47.940 between Apple's implementation and the one we found on the Corsair Voyager see 00:07:44.280 --> 00:07:49.740 on a Mac two Cinema 5K displays this 00:07:47.940 --> 00:07:54.720 would work just connect them to any Thunderbolt Port you want and it works 00:07:52.259 --> 00:08:00.840 as expected however when we attempt to do the same thing with the Voyager 00:07:56.520 --> 00:08:03.419 either only one display works or if we 00:08:00.840 --> 00:08:08.300 go through a hub we can run both of them but they're limited to 4K resolution 00:08:05.819 --> 00:08:13.139 unless we actually unplug them from our 00:08:10.800 --> 00:08:20.840 Thunderbolt ports plug one into Thunderbolt and one into the regular 00:08:15.979 --> 00:08:24.840 USBC 3.2 Port over on the other side 00:08:20.840 --> 00:08:27.120 both running at 5K the reason for this 00:08:24.840 --> 00:08:30.660 is quite interesting in the verges coverage of this laptop Corsair senior 00:08:28.860 --> 00:08:36.300 Public Relations Specialist Justin oakbina revealed that the USB 4 ports 00:08:33.719 --> 00:08:44.279 are hooked up to the CPU for display meanwhile the 3.2 ports are hooked up to 00:08:40.380 --> 00:08:46.740 the GPU so they might look the same but 00:08:44.279 --> 00:08:51.779 because they're running DisplayPort alt mode they're limited to the capabilities 00:08:48.540 --> 00:08:54.240 of whichever GPU is physically attached 00:08:51.779 --> 00:08:59.760 to them so we're able to run more than one 5K display by connecting to each of 00:08:57.120 --> 00:09:05.100 those gpus separately this is another really interesting 00:09:02.339 --> 00:09:10.140 example of different protocols behaving in different ways even if they go over 00:09:07.320 --> 00:09:15.300 the same connectors now alt mode what we're talking about here uses a physical 00:09:12.000 --> 00:09:17.459 chip connected to the USB port to send a 00:09:15.300 --> 00:09:22.740 signal down that differs from standard USB tunneling is not the same it 00:09:20.820 --> 00:09:28.080 converts the DisplayPort signal to packets that can be sent along a USB 00:09:25.260 --> 00:09:33.360 connection allowing for things like data and PCIe tunnel packets to be sent 00:09:30.560 --> 00:09:39.420 alongside so your mileage may vary depending on whether your machine uses 00:09:35.820 --> 00:09:40.620 alt mode or tunneled DisplayPort in poor 00:09:39.420 --> 00:09:44.760 Tanner if only Apple could have provided a 00:09:43.140 --> 00:09:47.580 display with an actual stand okay you're good you're unplugged yeah he's got the 00:09:46.260 --> 00:09:54.839 tracksuit and everything okay thank you let's try some older more obscure stuff 00:09:50.100 --> 00:09:57.839 like this akitio dual Drive Dock and uh 00:09:54.839 --> 00:10:00.060 how about this Thunderbolt archival tape 00:09:57.839 --> 00:10:03.779 backup system I remember the tape drive actually requiring special software so 00:10:02.220 --> 00:10:07.680 it's possible this hard drive will show up even if the tape drive wouldn't oh 00:10:05.519 --> 00:10:12.480 hey there we go look at that that's awesome all right goodbye monitor 00:10:10.019 --> 00:10:17.339 external drive and there they are that's wild I mean it 00:10:15.779 --> 00:10:22.980 shouldn't surprise me that much given that usb4 is supposed to be based on the 00:10:20.820 --> 00:10:26.940 Thunderbolt spec and therefore should be the same thing but you just don't expect 00:10:24.959 --> 00:10:31.260 heck to work that well right out of the gate and there were some things that led 00:10:29.760 --> 00:10:36.660 me to believe that maybe they weren't quite the same for example Thunderbolt 00:10:34.380 --> 00:10:42.060 has supported multiple Thunderbolt devices Daisy chained together since the 00:10:39.720 --> 00:10:48.660 beginning but the Wikipedia page for usb4 explicitly says that such daisy 00:10:45.720 --> 00:10:54.120 chaining is not supported to clarify you could totally plug a Thunderbolt Hub 00:10:50.459 --> 00:10:56.579 into your usb4 laptop and then a USB hub 00:10:54.120 --> 00:11:01.019 into that and another one into that and so on and so forth until the signal 00:10:58.380 --> 00:11:06.959 timing becomes an issue but Intel seems to believe that connecting additional 00:11:03.260 --> 00:11:08.399 PCIe tunneling devices Downstream well 00:11:06.959 --> 00:11:15.300 that's their jam so what happens if we try it I guess 00:11:13.260 --> 00:11:19.680 we've already got this guy right here so instead of plugging our additional 00:11:17.160 --> 00:11:24.540 drives into the laptop directly why don't we daisy chain I see the hard 00:11:22.260 --> 00:11:30.839 drive in here so but there they are the ssds in here have shown up but how far 00:11:26.940 --> 00:11:32.640 can we go uh why don't we do a hub 00:11:30.839 --> 00:11:35.399 right oh yeah I don't know if we have to go all the 00:11:33.899 --> 00:11:38.399 way to six but Let's do let's do one more at least here here comes another 00:11:37.079 --> 00:11:44.760 one there they are it's all showing up I 00:11:41.640 --> 00:11:47.360 want one more I want my 10 gig Ethernet 00:11:44.760 --> 00:11:50.899 say cool 00:11:49.860 --> 00:11:57.180 oh I like that one we got it working with 00:11:54.300 --> 00:12:04.019 anywhere from two to three devices pretty consistently but as you can see 00:12:00.300 --> 00:12:06.660 your mileage may vary though this is 00:12:04.019 --> 00:12:11.339 unlikely to ever affect you many newer Thunderbolt devices expect the hubs and 00:12:09.300 --> 00:12:17.100 docs have controllers in them that can communicate either using Thunderbolt 00:12:14.160 --> 00:12:22.920 like PCIe tunneling protocols or traditional USB protocols so in many 00:12:20.339 --> 00:12:28.200 cases it won't necessarily be obvious to you until you try to plug in another 00:12:25.320 --> 00:12:33.779 Downstream device which protocol your device is using now rather than trying 00:12:31.500 --> 00:12:39.899 to run all five of these devices let's go for a single really demanding one an 00:12:37.260 --> 00:12:47.399 external GPU here we go oh fan spinning that's a good sign there 00:12:42.839 --> 00:12:49.139 it is our RTX 2070 external GPU not that 00:12:47.399 --> 00:12:54.120 we'll need to upgrade the GPU anytime soon given that this laptop has a Radeon 00:12:51.420 --> 00:13:00.420 6800 in it already anyway but the point is that it does work and the a1600 does 00:12:58.320 --> 00:13:06.480 all of this partly thanks to AMD's inclusion of usb4 on their Zen 3 plus 00:13:02.940 --> 00:13:08.579 ryzen 7000 processors but in the absence 00:13:06.480 --> 00:13:12.120 of Intel standards compliance team it's also thanks to the way that Corsair has 00:13:10.440 --> 00:13:18.899 worked with their OEM to internally validate their implementation however 00:13:14.279 --> 00:13:20.220 watch how easily I can break things 00:13:18.899 --> 00:13:25.139 whoops here's what happened there while 00:13:22.260 --> 00:13:30.240 Thunderbolt has used the same USBC connector as USB devices for half a 00:13:27.959 --> 00:13:33.839 decade now the Thunderbolt protocol which you've heard me refer to a few 00:13:31.860 --> 00:13:39.360 times and it's kind of like the language that's actually being spoken over the 00:13:36.300 --> 00:13:43.500 cable well it's closer to PCI Express 00:13:39.360 --> 00:13:45.180 than it is to USB so this along with its 00:13:43.500 --> 00:13:50.279 traditionally much higher data rates means that it has far less tolerance for 00:13:47.820 --> 00:13:56.760 latency and inconsistency which means that cable quality matters a lot it's 00:13:53.700 --> 00:13:58.980 not all that like here uh oh this anchor 00:13:56.760 --> 00:14:03.300 cable is one that I specifically pulled aside for this this is pretty cool 00:14:01.079 --> 00:14:08.100 because this cable is older than the usb4 spec it's just a high quality C2C 00:14:06.779 --> 00:14:12.300 cable and give it a second 00:14:10.320 --> 00:14:16.860 oh wait did that not work actually tried it on a different 00:14:14.339 --> 00:14:22.200 Thunderbolt only device this network adapter 00:14:18.839 --> 00:14:25.139 and on the network adapter it totally 00:14:22.200 --> 00:14:31.980 works in spite of this thing not having a USB operating mode that's wild let's 00:14:28.920 --> 00:14:34.800 try this usb4 type c cable one that is 00:14:31.980 --> 00:14:40.500 actually a newer validated one and see if the external GPU picks up that one no 00:14:37.500 --> 00:14:43.019 as you can see standard USBC cables 00:14:40.500 --> 00:14:49.260 might work fine even with Thunderbolt only devices but only the ones with the 00:14:46.860 --> 00:14:53.820 built-in signal stabilizer like this one are actually guaranteed to work with 00:14:51.899 --> 00:14:58.139 Thunderbolt devices and that's going to be true for any connection using that 00:14:56.160 --> 00:15:05.339 PCIe based Thunderbolt protocol regardless of whether it's on an Intel 00:15:01.260 --> 00:15:08.399 certified Thunderbolt device or a USB 4 00:15:05.339 --> 00:15:10.560 device this is why USB 4 is only rated 00:15:08.399 --> 00:15:16.320 at 40 gigabit per second over a one meter cable while Thunderbolt 4 is rated 00:15:12.899 --> 00:15:19.199 at that same speed at up to 2 meters to 00:15:16.320 --> 00:15:25.800 my knowledge there are no non in tell Thunderbolt usb4 signal stabilized cable 00:15:22.680 --> 00:15:28.320 products and curiously this is another 00:15:25.800 --> 00:15:34.680 really interesting one this active Thunderbolt 3 cable from Corning didn't 00:15:31.320 --> 00:15:36.060 work on any of our devices on our usb4 00:15:34.680 --> 00:15:41.639 laptop here hold on I can just demonstrate this real quick there we go 00:15:38.040 --> 00:15:43.800 yeah no dice which means that our days 00:15:41.639 --> 00:15:50.220 of Hit or Miss cable compatibility are not over even if they are a lot better 00:15:47.220 --> 00:15:52.139 to answer the question then is usb4 00:15:50.220 --> 00:15:58.260 compatible with Thunderbolt 3 and 4 devices the answer is yes 00:15:54.899 --> 00:16:00.180 but also no the level of compatibility 00:15:58.260 --> 00:16:05.579 really is going to come down to how good of an implementation you get the Corsair 00:16:02.100 --> 00:16:07.560 Voyager a 1600 performed admirably but 00:16:05.579 --> 00:16:11.820 it's a machine that implements far better than the bare minimum spec and 00:16:09.779 --> 00:16:16.019 one that doesn't go this far may not be as smooth and as we saw today your 00:16:14.579 --> 00:16:21.060 mileage may vary when it comes to unofficial features like daisy chaining 00:16:18.240 --> 00:16:25.620 and support for specialty cables like these Optical ones from Corning the big 00:16:23.040 --> 00:16:30.779 question this phrases then is why did the usbif allow half-baked usb4 at all 00:16:29.220 --> 00:16:36.420 well it seems to come down to phones mobile devices could get some very valid 00:16:33.480 --> 00:16:40.740 benefits from usb4 like higher data rates and DisplayPort tunneling for 00:16:38.160 --> 00:16:44.459 external devices with Samsung Dex or whatever but they're unlikely to need 00:16:42.600 --> 00:16:49.800 the PCIe tunneling that Thunderbolt is known for or daisy chaining and the like 00:16:46.740 --> 00:16:51.480 they're also unlikely to need this segue 00:16:49.800 --> 00:16:55.620 to our sponsor that I'm known for because we already told you it's sponsored by Corsair if you guys enjoyed 00:16:54.420 --> 00:17:01.980 this video and you're looking to learn more about Thunderbolt this video on ShortCircuit shows off my very favorite 00:16:59.160 --> 00:17:06.559 Thunderbolt 4 dock it's actually uh this one freaking awesome two and a half kick 00:17:04.260 --> 00:17:06.559 land