1 00:00:00,199 --> 00:00:05,400 usb4 is an absolute Game Changer we're 2 00:00:03,419 --> 00:00:12,000 talking 40 gigabit per second data rates support for 8K displays and external 3 00:00:08,220 --> 00:00:15,240 gpus a single cable docking at up to 240 4 00:00:12,000 --> 00:00:17,520 watt charging rates and all over the 5 00:00:15,240 --> 00:00:25,439 same USB type-c connectors and cables that you have come to know into yes what 6 00:00:21,500 --> 00:00:27,599 actually usb4 is more like a collection 7 00:00:25,439 --> 00:00:33,000 of optional standards okay it sounds like what you're talking about is USB 4 8 00:00:30,000 --> 00:00:35,280 gen 3x2 with some of those optional 9 00:00:33,000 --> 00:00:39,120 features implemented so your sponsor origin pz would probably want you to 10 00:00:37,320 --> 00:00:43,860 clarify that so pedantic Riley is very annoying but he's 11 00:00:42,000 --> 00:00:47,280 also right I mean it shouldn't surprise me coming from the same industry 12 00:00:45,480 --> 00:00:52,379 Consortium that brought us naming like USB 3.2 gen 2x2 but five years after 13 00:00:51,059 --> 00:00:58,620 Intel's announcement that they would open source Thunderbolt USB 4 is finally 14 00:00:55,860 --> 00:01:04,500 out in force and has turned out to be one of the most confusing standards ever 15 00:01:01,620 --> 00:01:07,920 to make it onto a consumer PC the good news though is that by the time we're 16 00:01:06,180 --> 00:01:13,260 finished here you will understand both its pros and cons and how it operates or 17 00:01:11,700 --> 00:01:18,140 doesn't with other standards like Thunderbolt including real world 18 00:01:15,360 --> 00:01:18,140 examples 19 00:01:24,799 --> 00:01:31,500 the simple explanation really is that 20 00:01:27,900 --> 00:01:33,420 usb4 is an open version of Thunderbolt 3 21 00:01:31,500 --> 00:01:39,540 based on the specifications the Intel released back in 2017. there is a lot to 22 00:01:37,140 --> 00:01:43,079 love about this move for one thing it frees vendors from the shackles of 23 00:01:41,400 --> 00:01:49,020 Intel's notoriously onerous certification process and for another it 24 00:01:45,840 --> 00:01:51,479 allows non-Intel CPU manufacturers like 25 00:01:49,020 --> 00:01:55,680 apple or especially AMD who didn't co-develop the standard to support 26 00:01:53,340 --> 00:02:00,659 features that used to be Thunderbolt exclusive like 40 gigabit data rates 27 00:01:58,500 --> 00:02:07,140 daisy chaining together multiple devices and PCIe tunneling which is super cool 28 00:02:04,439 --> 00:02:12,360 and allows you to turn your USBC Port into a PCI Express connection for 29 00:02:09,479 --> 00:02:18,660 devices like external gpus and other add-on cards the problem is that when 30 00:02:16,080 --> 00:02:24,239 you free the notoriously Cheapskate computer industry from compliance 31 00:02:20,340 --> 00:02:27,840 programs you invite shortcuts and usb4 32 00:02:24,239 --> 00:02:30,120 invites a lot of shortcuts in no 33 00:02:27,840 --> 00:02:34,920 particular order here are the optional components of the spec that can be left 34 00:02:32,160 --> 00:02:40,560 off of your device while still allowing the vendor to slap usb4 on the spec 35 00:02:37,440 --> 00:02:43,680 sheet 40 gigabit transfer rates 20 36 00:02:40,560 --> 00:02:47,340 gigabit USB 3.2 Thunderbolt alternate 37 00:02:43,680 --> 00:02:50,819 mode USBC alternate mode and yes PCIe 38 00:02:47,340 --> 00:02:52,739 tunneling yeah in a world where almost 39 00:02:50,819 --> 00:02:57,900 nothing you can connect to a laptop needs the speed of even a last gen USB 40 00:02:55,379 --> 00:03:03,480 320 gig Port isn't the whole point of usb4 PCIe tunneling and interoperability 41 00:03:01,260 --> 00:03:08,819 with Thunderbolt 3 devices well Microsoft sure thought so which is 42 00:03:05,819 --> 00:03:11,760 why they actually require external usb4 43 00:03:08,819 --> 00:03:16,500 ports on Windows 11 devices to support PCIe tunneling which theoretically 44 00:03:14,400 --> 00:03:21,659 ensures backwards compatibility with Thunderbolt 3 devices but there is no 45 00:03:19,080 --> 00:03:26,459 such guarantee if you were to buy a bare motherboard or a non-Windows device and 46 00:03:24,840 --> 00:03:31,140 from my conversations with a device maker whose previous Thunderbolt 3 47 00:03:28,739 --> 00:03:36,840 notebook actually never ended up getting certified by Intel there is a lot more 48 00:03:33,959 --> 00:03:41,580 to this interoperability than just checking a box for PCIe tunneling making 49 00:03:39,420 --> 00:03:46,739 matters even more confusing Microsoft does not appear to have mandates in 50 00:03:43,799 --> 00:03:52,379 place for any of the other features the good news is that when it works it works 51 00:03:49,500 --> 00:03:57,599 really well here is a small bushel of Thunderbolt 3 Thunderbolt 4 and USB 4 52 00:03:55,080 --> 00:04:02,760 devices that we've tried on the Voyager a1600 gaming and content creation laptop 53 00:04:00,540 --> 00:04:06,780 that Corsair provided for this video and I'm going to show you guys what the 54 00:04:04,200 --> 00:04:11,519 experience is like on a usb4 laptop after the short message from our sponsor 55 00:04:09,000 --> 00:04:15,780 Corsair packs the Voyager a1600 with high performance gear like their 56 00:04:12,959 --> 00:04:20,220 Vengeance ddr5 memory and yet managed to keep it amazingly slim the integrated 57 00:04:18,540 --> 00:04:24,360 Elgato steam deck allows you to map streaming commands and keyboard 58 00:04:21,780 --> 00:04:29,040 shortcuts to 10 easy access customizable shortcut buttons using simple drag and 59 00:04:26,460 --> 00:04:33,360 drop customization and Corsair's IQ software lets you fully customize the 60 00:04:31,139 --> 00:04:36,540 system's look monitor performance and manage your Corsair devices so you can 61 00:04:35,040 --> 00:04:39,840 update and fine-tune the settings to your needs it comes with a one-year 62 00:04:38,280 --> 00:04:44,699 comprehensive warranty for peace of mind making it the Premier Choice for laptop 63 00:04:41,820 --> 00:04:48,540 PC gaming or content Creation in a super compact package visit the link down 64 00:04:46,560 --> 00:04:52,259 below to learn more for our first trick we'll be trying to connect a couple of 65 00:04:49,800 --> 00:04:56,639 Thunderbolt 3 devices to our USB 4 laptop and the reason this matters is 66 00:04:54,780 --> 00:05:00,960 because these older devices would have been designed at a time that usb4 67 00:04:59,220 --> 00:05:07,380 compatibility wouldn't have been a consideration so if they work it means 68 00:05:04,139 --> 00:05:10,919 that usb4 is transparently compatible 69 00:05:07,380 --> 00:05:13,020 with Thunderbolt 3 at least okay this 70 00:05:10,919 --> 00:05:18,660 one works for these particular devices now that first one I plugged in using a 71 00:05:15,540 --> 00:05:20,699 usb4 cable and the second one we're 72 00:05:18,660 --> 00:05:25,080 going to try an older Thunderbolt 3 cable 73 00:05:21,660 --> 00:05:26,940 we got it there it is Cal digit 10 gig 74 00:05:25,080 --> 00:05:34,199 network adapter this backwards compatibility means that any Thunderbolt 75 00:05:29,699 --> 00:05:36,660 3 device and USB 4 system should work 76 00:05:34,199 --> 00:05:41,580 with each other now I would expect to find some edge cases particularly with 77 00:05:39,060 --> 00:05:46,020 very old devices due to Intel specific handshakes that used to be required but 78 00:05:44,039 --> 00:05:50,520 we didn't run into any of them while we were working on this video now let's try 79 00:05:48,300 --> 00:05:53,580 a Thunderbolt 4 device in the interest of giving ourselves our best shot here 80 00:05:52,259 --> 00:05:57,479 we're going to go ahead and use a Thunderbolt 4 validated cable look at 81 00:05:56,460 --> 00:06:01,560 that easy and we don't even need that old 82 00:05:59,639 --> 00:06:06,479 Intel application for managing all of our connected devices I mean I expected 83 00:06:04,560 --> 00:06:11,880 this to work the main difference between Thunderbolt 3 and Thunderbolt 4 is 84 00:06:09,360 --> 00:06:17,759 actually also in enforcement of compliance so Thunderbolt 4 requires in 85 00:06:15,419 --> 00:06:23,280 order to get the Intel badge support for two 4K displays or a single 8K display 86 00:06:20,479 --> 00:06:27,000 computers must have 32 gigabit per second of PCIe bandwidth this is to 87 00:06:25,500 --> 00:06:30,479 address the issues folks would have with high bandwidth devices on some 88 00:06:28,620 --> 00:06:35,759 Thunderbolt 3 laptops particularly e-gpus and they must support security 89 00:06:33,840 --> 00:06:39,780 improvements that protect your device from malicious connected devices 90 00:06:37,759 --> 00:06:43,919 plugable.com actually has a great write-up on the differences between 91 00:06:41,220 --> 00:06:48,300 Thunderbolt 3 and Thunderbolt 4. what about speed though in an attempt to 92 00:06:45,960 --> 00:06:54,960 crack over 20 gigabit per second of transfers we are using three separate 93 00:06:51,000 --> 00:06:56,759 ssds and our Network share and copying 94 00:06:54,960 --> 00:07:02,280 all to our boot drive at the same time three more six gigabytes a second yes 95 00:06:59,340 --> 00:07:08,280 can confirm that we are not limited to 20 gigabit per second even though that 96 00:07:04,139 --> 00:07:10,319 could be the case with usb4 wow those 97 00:07:08,280 --> 00:07:15,120 transfers are almost all done that's really impressive those were 22 Gigabyte 98 00:07:12,600 --> 00:07:19,080 files mind-blowing and the most mind-blowing thing is that aside from 99 00:07:17,160 --> 00:07:22,979 some Cal digit devices that took a little while to be detected we didn't 100 00:07:20,819 --> 00:07:26,699 run into any issues using Thunderbolt devices on this laptop and those Cal 101 00:07:25,199 --> 00:07:31,979 digit ones they were actually just downloading drivers in the background 102 00:07:28,919 --> 00:07:34,199 wow but there is definitely more to know 103 00:07:31,979 --> 00:07:39,419 here we tested a lot of configurations and discovered not only some differences 104 00:07:36,419 --> 00:07:41,819 between Thunderbolt and usb4 but also 105 00:07:39,419 --> 00:07:47,940 between Apple's implementation and the one we found on the Corsair Voyager see 106 00:07:44,280 --> 00:07:49,740 on a Mac two Cinema 5K displays this 107 00:07:47,940 --> 00:07:54,720 would work just connect them to any Thunderbolt Port you want and it works 108 00:07:52,259 --> 00:08:00,840 as expected however when we attempt to do the same thing with the Voyager 109 00:07:56,520 --> 00:08:03,419 either only one display works or if we 110 00:08:00,840 --> 00:08:08,300 go through a hub we can run both of them but they're limited to 4K resolution 111 00:08:05,819 --> 00:08:13,139 unless we actually unplug them from our 112 00:08:10,800 --> 00:08:20,840 Thunderbolt ports plug one into Thunderbolt and one into the regular 113 00:08:15,979 --> 00:08:24,840 USBC 3.2 Port over on the other side 114 00:08:20,840 --> 00:08:27,120 both running at 5K the reason for this 115 00:08:24,840 --> 00:08:30,660 is quite interesting in the verges coverage of this laptop Corsair senior 116 00:08:28,860 --> 00:08:36,300 Public Relations Specialist Justin oakbina revealed that the USB 4 ports 117 00:08:33,719 --> 00:08:44,279 are hooked up to the CPU for display meanwhile the 3.2 ports are hooked up to 118 00:08:40,380 --> 00:08:46,740 the GPU so they might look the same but 119 00:08:44,279 --> 00:08:51,779 because they're running DisplayPort alt mode they're limited to the capabilities 120 00:08:48,540 --> 00:08:54,240 of whichever GPU is physically attached 121 00:08:51,779 --> 00:08:59,760 to them so we're able to run more than one 5K display by connecting to each of 122 00:08:57,120 --> 00:09:05,100 those gpus separately this is another really interesting 123 00:09:02,339 --> 00:09:10,140 example of different protocols behaving in different ways even if they go over 124 00:09:07,320 --> 00:09:15,300 the same connectors now alt mode what we're talking about here uses a physical 125 00:09:12,000 --> 00:09:17,459 chip connected to the USB port to send a 126 00:09:15,300 --> 00:09:22,740 signal down that differs from standard USB tunneling is not the same it 127 00:09:20,820 --> 00:09:28,080 converts the DisplayPort signal to packets that can be sent along a USB 128 00:09:25,260 --> 00:09:33,360 connection allowing for things like data and PCIe tunnel packets to be sent 129 00:09:30,560 --> 00:09:39,420 alongside so your mileage may vary depending on whether your machine uses 130 00:09:35,820 --> 00:09:40,620 alt mode or tunneled DisplayPort in poor 131 00:09:39,420 --> 00:09:44,760 Tanner if only Apple could have provided a 132 00:09:43,140 --> 00:09:47,580 display with an actual stand okay you're good you're unplugged yeah he's got the 133 00:09:46,260 --> 00:09:54,839 tracksuit and everything okay thank you let's try some older more obscure stuff 134 00:09:50,100 --> 00:09:57,839 like this akitio dual Drive Dock and uh 135 00:09:54,839 --> 00:10:00,060 how about this Thunderbolt archival tape 136 00:09:57,839 --> 00:10:03,779 backup system I remember the tape drive actually requiring special software so 137 00:10:02,220 --> 00:10:07,680 it's possible this hard drive will show up even if the tape drive wouldn't oh 138 00:10:05,519 --> 00:10:12,480 hey there we go look at that that's awesome all right goodbye monitor 139 00:10:10,019 --> 00:10:17,339 external drive and there they are that's wild I mean it 140 00:10:15,779 --> 00:10:22,980 shouldn't surprise me that much given that usb4 is supposed to be based on the 141 00:10:20,820 --> 00:10:26,940 Thunderbolt spec and therefore should be the same thing but you just don't expect 142 00:10:24,959 --> 00:10:31,260 heck to work that well right out of the gate and there were some things that led 143 00:10:29,760 --> 00:10:36,660 me to believe that maybe they weren't quite the same for example Thunderbolt 144 00:10:34,380 --> 00:10:42,060 has supported multiple Thunderbolt devices Daisy chained together since the 145 00:10:39,720 --> 00:10:48,660 beginning but the Wikipedia page for usb4 explicitly says that such daisy 146 00:10:45,720 --> 00:10:54,120 chaining is not supported to clarify you could totally plug a Thunderbolt Hub 147 00:10:50,459 --> 00:10:56,579 into your usb4 laptop and then a USB hub 148 00:10:54,120 --> 00:11:01,019 into that and another one into that and so on and so forth until the signal 149 00:10:58,380 --> 00:11:06,959 timing becomes an issue but Intel seems to believe that connecting additional 150 00:11:03,260 --> 00:11:08,399 PCIe tunneling devices Downstream well 151 00:11:06,959 --> 00:11:15,300 that's their jam so what happens if we try it I guess 152 00:11:13,260 --> 00:11:19,680 we've already got this guy right here so instead of plugging our additional 153 00:11:17,160 --> 00:11:24,540 drives into the laptop directly why don't we daisy chain I see the hard 154 00:11:22,260 --> 00:11:30,839 drive in here so but there they are the ssds in here have shown up but how far 155 00:11:26,940 --> 00:11:32,640 can we go uh why don't we do a hub 156 00:11:30,839 --> 00:11:35,399 right oh yeah I don't know if we have to go all the 157 00:11:33,899 --> 00:11:38,399 way to six but Let's do let's do one more at least here here comes another 158 00:11:37,079 --> 00:11:44,760 one there they are it's all showing up I 159 00:11:41,640 --> 00:11:47,360 want one more I want my 10 gig Ethernet 160 00:11:44,760 --> 00:11:50,899 say cool 161 00:11:49,860 --> 00:11:57,180 oh I like that one we got it working with 162 00:11:54,300 --> 00:12:04,019 anywhere from two to three devices pretty consistently but as you can see 163 00:12:00,300 --> 00:12:06,660 your mileage may vary though this is 164 00:12:04,019 --> 00:12:11,339 unlikely to ever affect you many newer Thunderbolt devices expect the hubs and 165 00:12:09,300 --> 00:12:17,100 docs have controllers in them that can communicate either using Thunderbolt 166 00:12:14,160 --> 00:12:22,920 like PCIe tunneling protocols or traditional USB protocols so in many 167 00:12:20,339 --> 00:12:28,200 cases it won't necessarily be obvious to you until you try to plug in another 168 00:12:25,320 --> 00:12:33,779 Downstream device which protocol your device is using now rather than trying 169 00:12:31,500 --> 00:12:39,899 to run all five of these devices let's go for a single really demanding one an 170 00:12:37,260 --> 00:12:47,399 external GPU here we go oh fan spinning that's a good sign there 171 00:12:42,839 --> 00:12:49,139 it is our RTX 2070 external GPU not that 172 00:12:47,399 --> 00:12:54,120 we'll need to upgrade the GPU anytime soon given that this laptop has a Radeon 173 00:12:51,420 --> 00:13:00,420 6800 in it already anyway but the point is that it does work and the a1600 does 174 00:12:58,320 --> 00:13:06,480 all of this partly thanks to AMD's inclusion of usb4 on their Zen 3 plus 175 00:13:02,940 --> 00:13:08,579 ryzen 7000 processors but in the absence 176 00:13:06,480 --> 00:13:12,120 of Intel standards compliance team it's also thanks to the way that Corsair has 177 00:13:10,440 --> 00:13:18,899 worked with their OEM to internally validate their implementation however 178 00:13:14,279 --> 00:13:20,220 watch how easily I can break things 179 00:13:18,899 --> 00:13:25,139 whoops here's what happened there while 180 00:13:22,260 --> 00:13:30,240 Thunderbolt has used the same USBC connector as USB devices for half a 181 00:13:27,959 --> 00:13:33,839 decade now the Thunderbolt protocol which you've heard me refer to a few 182 00:13:31,860 --> 00:13:39,360 times and it's kind of like the language that's actually being spoken over the 183 00:13:36,300 --> 00:13:43,500 cable well it's closer to PCI Express 184 00:13:39,360 --> 00:13:45,180 than it is to USB so this along with its 185 00:13:43,500 --> 00:13:50,279 traditionally much higher data rates means that it has far less tolerance for 186 00:13:47,820 --> 00:13:56,760 latency and inconsistency which means that cable quality matters a lot it's 187 00:13:53,700 --> 00:13:58,980 not all that like here uh oh this anchor 188 00:13:56,760 --> 00:14:03,300 cable is one that I specifically pulled aside for this this is pretty cool 189 00:14:01,079 --> 00:14:08,100 because this cable is older than the usb4 spec it's just a high quality C2C 190 00:14:06,779 --> 00:14:12,300 cable and give it a second 191 00:14:10,320 --> 00:14:16,860 oh wait did that not work actually tried it on a different 192 00:14:14,339 --> 00:14:22,200 Thunderbolt only device this network adapter 193 00:14:18,839 --> 00:14:25,139 and on the network adapter it totally 194 00:14:22,200 --> 00:14:31,980 works in spite of this thing not having a USB operating mode that's wild let's 195 00:14:28,920 --> 00:14:34,800 try this usb4 type c cable one that is 196 00:14:31,980 --> 00:14:40,500 actually a newer validated one and see if the external GPU picks up that one no 197 00:14:37,500 --> 00:14:43,019 as you can see standard USBC cables 198 00:14:40,500 --> 00:14:49,260 might work fine even with Thunderbolt only devices but only the ones with the 199 00:14:46,860 --> 00:14:53,820 built-in signal stabilizer like this one are actually guaranteed to work with 200 00:14:51,899 --> 00:14:58,139 Thunderbolt devices and that's going to be true for any connection using that 201 00:14:56,160 --> 00:15:05,339 PCIe based Thunderbolt protocol regardless of whether it's on an Intel 202 00:15:01,260 --> 00:15:08,399 certified Thunderbolt device or a USB 4 203 00:15:05,339 --> 00:15:10,560 device this is why USB 4 is only rated 204 00:15:08,399 --> 00:15:16,320 at 40 gigabit per second over a one meter cable while Thunderbolt 4 is rated 205 00:15:12,899 --> 00:15:19,199 at that same speed at up to 2 meters to 206 00:15:16,320 --> 00:15:25,800 my knowledge there are no non in tell Thunderbolt usb4 signal stabilized cable 207 00:15:22,680 --> 00:15:28,320 products and curiously this is another 208 00:15:25,800 --> 00:15:34,680 really interesting one this active Thunderbolt 3 cable from Corning didn't 209 00:15:31,320 --> 00:15:36,060 work on any of our devices on our usb4 210 00:15:34,680 --> 00:15:41,639 laptop here hold on I can just demonstrate this real quick there we go 211 00:15:38,040 --> 00:15:43,800 yeah no dice which means that our days 212 00:15:41,639 --> 00:15:50,220 of Hit or Miss cable compatibility are not over even if they are a lot better 213 00:15:47,220 --> 00:15:52,139 to answer the question then is usb4 214 00:15:50,220 --> 00:15:58,260 compatible with Thunderbolt 3 and 4 devices the answer is yes 215 00:15:54,899 --> 00:16:00,180 but also no the level of compatibility 216 00:15:58,260 --> 00:16:05,579 really is going to come down to how good of an implementation you get the Corsair 217 00:16:02,100 --> 00:16:07,560 Voyager a 1600 performed admirably but 218 00:16:05,579 --> 00:16:11,820 it's a machine that implements far better than the bare minimum spec and 219 00:16:09,779 --> 00:16:16,019 one that doesn't go this far may not be as smooth and as we saw today your 220 00:16:14,579 --> 00:16:21,060 mileage may vary when it comes to unofficial features like daisy chaining 221 00:16:18,240 --> 00:16:25,620 and support for specialty cables like these Optical ones from Corning the big 222 00:16:23,040 --> 00:16:30,779 question this phrases then is why did the usbif allow half-baked usb4 at all 223 00:16:29,220 --> 00:16:36,420 well it seems to come down to phones mobile devices could get some very valid 224 00:16:33,480 --> 00:16:40,740 benefits from usb4 like higher data rates and DisplayPort tunneling for 225 00:16:38,160 --> 00:16:44,459 external devices with Samsung Dex or whatever but they're unlikely to need 226 00:16:42,600 --> 00:16:49,800 the PCIe tunneling that Thunderbolt is known for or daisy chaining and the like 227 00:16:46,740 --> 00:16:51,480 they're also unlikely to need this segue 228 00:16:49,800 --> 00:16:55,620 to our sponsor that I'm known for because we already told you it's sponsored by Corsair if you guys enjoyed 229 00:16:54,420 --> 00:17:01,980 this video and you're looking to learn more about Thunderbolt this video on ShortCircuit shows off my very favorite 230 00:16:59,160 --> 00:17:06,559 Thunderbolt 4 dock it's actually uh this one freaking awesome two and a half kick 231 00:17:04,260 --> 00:17:06,559 land