WEBVTT 00:00:00.240 --> 00:00:07.759 Wish, T-Mu, AliExpress, everyone's at least heard of these marketplaces that 00:00:05.239 --> 00:00:11.519 [music] connect Chinese retailers with a global audience. But hearing about them 00:00:10.080 --> 00:00:15.040 doesn't necessarily mean you should buy from them. Computer parts on these 00:00:13.360 --> 00:00:19.680 sites, not to mention all the other things, are often lowquality and of 00:00:17.359 --> 00:00:23.680 questionable utility, which has led to some hilarious shenanigans. I told you 00:00:22.080 --> 00:00:28.880 this WOULD BE HORRIBLE. OH GOD. ON the streets late at night cuz 00:00:26.640 --> 00:00:33.200 I'm small. That is not what pectoral muscles look like. 00:00:31.039 --> 00:00:37.440 But surely Chinese consumers wouldn't put up with this kind of nonsense from 00:00:35.120 --> 00:00:42.160 their countrymen. What are these same marketplaces offering to the Chinese 00:00:39.300 --> 00:00:47.680 [music] domestic market? To find out, WE BOUGHT THIS. JUST KIDDING. It's really 00:00:44.719 --> 00:00:53.840 light from Tao Bao, which is essentially a Chinaon version of AliExpress from 00:00:50.320 --> 00:00:56.000 Alibaba. It's a pretty normal looking 00:00:53.840 --> 00:01:03.120 pre-built computer except that it cost the equivalent of just $300. 00:01:00.000 --> 00:01:05.680 I know, right? 300 bucks for a new 00:01:03.120 --> 00:01:11.760 computer. I mean, sure, it only has a GTX 1060, but that alone would cost 00:01:08.720 --> 00:01:16.320 about $70 over here, giving them just 00:01:11.760 --> 00:01:18.479 over 200 bucks for a 14 core CPU, 32 00:01:16.320 --> 00:01:23.200 gigs of RAM, not to mention motherboard, power supply, case, and storage. How 00:01:21.119 --> 00:01:28.000 does the math work on this? While the system was listed at $2,000 yen or about 00:01:26.400 --> 00:01:32.240 $300, we had to shell out significantly more 00:01:30.159 --> 00:01:36.720 to have it inspected and then shipped out by a third party. Tabow does offer 00:01:35.119 --> 00:01:40.720 international shipping, but it is limited to only certain items, and the 00:01:38.960 --> 00:01:45.759 sellers expect to be interacting with customers entirely in Mandarin. That 00:01:43.040 --> 00:01:51.680 means our out-ofpocket cost was closer to $600, but that is only due to extra 00:01:49.439 --> 00:01:55.920 costs that would not be incurred by a Chinese buyer. So, let's have a look at 00:01:53.759 --> 00:02:01.759 what they would get. Starting with the case, which is a case, actually, I don't 00:02:00.079 --> 00:02:05.439 really have a ton of complaints here. You've got ample room for air flow. It's 00:02:03.680 --> 00:02:08.879 not filtered, but you've got three fan mounts behind here, meaning you should 00:02:06.880 --> 00:02:12.959 theoretically be able to install an AIO liquid cooler. The side panel is tinted 00:02:11.039 --> 00:02:17.040 plexi rather than tempered glass, but it does use a convenient thumb screw-based 00:02:14.800 --> 00:02:21.040 mounting mechanism. And the front IO is easy to access, even if I would have 00:02:18.720 --> 00:02:25.440 preferred to have a USB 3 port rather than just USB 2. The only question then 00:02:23.360 --> 00:02:29.920 is who exactly [music] makes it. You see, the manufacturer on the box is 00:02:27.599 --> 00:02:35.440 Kintar, but they sometimes go by the name Jinda. The QR code on the box tries 00:02:32.959 --> 00:02:40.000 to go to jindaw168.com, but that website is gone and the domain 00:02:38.160 --> 00:02:46.400 can be purchased for less than the price of this computer. Jinda 168 seems to be 00:02:44.239 --> 00:02:51.519 a shipping vessel of some sort, but we have no idea if it is in any way related 00:02:48.640 --> 00:02:56.800 to Kentar. We eventually found Kentar's site, kintar.com.cn, CN and that 00:02:54.080 --> 00:03:03.040 revealed that this case is called the Jinda or fighting knife which explains 00:03:00.239 --> 00:03:07.120 the very warlike imagery on the box. Its English name would be probably something 00:03:04.720 --> 00:03:11.360 like Kintar knife fight. Okay. Who told you that? Is that from Andy? 00:03:09.200 --> 00:03:18.319 No, I I I I didn't do that. Wow. It's only $17 00:03:14.640 --> 00:03:20.080 with the USB 3 port. Believe it or not, 00:03:18.319 --> 00:03:25.840 the computer wasn't the only thing we got in our package. We also got a 00:03:22.400 --> 00:03:27.840 keyboard and mouse. Copyright 2016. Ooh, 00:03:25.840 --> 00:03:31.920 it looks like copyright a lot longer ago than that. [laughter] 00:03:30.239 --> 00:03:35.040 But to their credit, at least they don't try to oversell the thing with the only 00:03:33.519 --> 00:03:41.120 marketing claims on the front of the box being that the keyboard has 104 keys. 00:03:39.040 --> 00:03:48.319 Yeah, that sounds like 104 keys. And that the mouse is 1,000 DPI. What else 00:03:44.720 --> 00:03:51.440 we got in here? Oh. Oh, wow. This is far 00:03:48.319 --> 00:03:54.959 more of an accessory package than I was 00:03:51.440 --> 00:03:57.167 expect. This is hilarious. 00:03:54.959 --> 00:04:02.480 No. [screaming] Okay, story time. There is a Razor 00:04:00.560 --> 00:04:07.760 Mantis deskpad that has been in active service for over 13 years, making its 00:04:04.879 --> 00:04:13.200 way from my desk at NCIX to Luke's test bench now to Emily's workstation. The 00:04:10.867 --> 00:04:18.799 [music] thing is, it looks absolutely nothing like this. It's about four times 00:04:16.079 --> 00:04:22.400 the size, significantly thicker, and is actually made by Razer. Anyway, that 00:04:21.120 --> 00:04:26.720 doesn't mean it won't work well enough for our purposes. Let's get our setup 00:04:24.160 --> 00:04:32.479 deployed here. Wait, I forgot about the other stuff. There's what appears to be 00:04:28.240 --> 00:04:34.960 a very good 10-ft patch cable, 00:04:32.479 --> 00:04:42.400 a USB drive that I would definitely plug into my computer, 32 gigs, and for some 00:04:38.080 --> 00:04:43.680 reason, an HDMI to VGA adapter. That 00:04:42.400 --> 00:04:50.000 seems like the kind of thing that I could probably just pick up separately if I really need it. Huh? 00:04:46.639 --> 00:04:53.840 It also comes with a screwdriver. 00:04:50.000 --> 00:04:56.320 What the Oh, what? Oh, 00:04:53.840 --> 00:05:00.400 this is also inexplicable. The computer is assembled. 00:04:58.400 --> 00:05:04.960 It's in case you need to open it. That quality molding. I want to take a bit of 00:05:02.800 --> 00:05:09.759 a closer look at this computer. Cable management. You know what? Far from the 00:05:08.320 --> 00:05:13.120 worst I've ever seen. They took the time to route the front IO cables around the 00:05:11.759 --> 00:05:17.600 back of the motherboard tray. And actually, same goes for the 24 pin, the 00:05:15.360 --> 00:05:22.880 8 pin, and the six pin GPU power connector. But there are a few eyebrow 00:05:20.320 --> 00:05:29.440 raisers in here. I have never heard of this brand of power supply, the BUO CX 00:05:26.639 --> 00:05:33.440 650 that manages, ooh, that's scary. [music] 00:05:30.880 --> 00:05:38.720 A whopping 384 watts on the 12vt rail and is rated for 00:05:36.160 --> 00:05:46.000 500 watt. That is a very deceptive name, Bisuo. Oh, and also it is only rated for 00:05:43.199 --> 00:05:51.520 220 volt AC input. [music] How are we going to power this thing? 00:05:48.240 --> 00:05:53.440 Oh no, we have that sketchy adapter Alex 00:05:51.520 --> 00:05:56.400 bought. I knew that was coming. 00:05:55.120 --> 00:06:00.720 Yep. For those wondering, by the way, we did 00:05:58.320 --> 00:06:07.199 try it with North American 120 volt wall power and it did work for a little 00:06:03.520 --> 00:06:10.880 while. So, their universal AC input from 00:06:07.199 --> 00:06:13.840 150 to 264 volts is misleading at best 00:06:10.880 --> 00:06:17.120 when there's up to 47 countries that it won't even power up in. Also, we're 00:06:15.759 --> 00:06:22.720 pretty sure we were supposed to get a GTX 1070, not a 1060, but the page 00:06:20.800 --> 00:06:27.120 disappeared in between the time that we ordered the product and when it arrived, 00:06:24.800 --> 00:06:32.080 meaning that I guess that practice also takes place on domestic Chinese sites. 00:06:29.360 --> 00:06:36.560 The SSD is supremely unremarkable other than being so no-name brand that we 00:06:34.960 --> 00:06:40.720 weren't even able to find a listing for it. It's 256 gigs and CrystalBench 00:06:39.039 --> 00:06:44.560 clocked it at around half a gig on both reads and rights, which is about what 00:06:42.240 --> 00:06:50.240 you'd expect. What you wouldn't expect is this RAM. Both are DDR4 as 00:06:48.080 --> 00:06:55.039 advertised. Both of them use Samsung chips, which is good, but one of them 00:06:52.800 --> 00:06:59.840 comes from a Lenovo pre-built, and the other one seems to come from some kind 00:06:57.280 --> 00:07:03.759 of network switch. The bad thing about that is it means these are almost 00:07:01.440 --> 00:07:08.400 certainly secondhand. The good thing though is it means they're almost 00:07:05.440 --> 00:07:11.919 certainly not counterfeit because why would you go out of your way 00:07:09.759 --> 00:07:18.160 to put a random third party sticker on it when Samsung is what's going to sell 00:07:14.000 --> 00:07:20.560 it as quality? Anyway, it's DDR4 2133 00:07:18.160 --> 00:07:25.360 and it's ECC, which raises some questions about the rest of the 00:07:22.240 --> 00:07:28.160 components. You see, ECC memory is for 00:07:25.360 --> 00:07:32.960 servers. And this motherboard is like no server motherboard or really any 00:07:30.639 --> 00:07:39.440 motherboard that I've ever seen before. It is neither as short as an MATX board, 00:07:36.319 --> 00:07:41.440 nor is it as long as an ATX board. And 00:07:39.440 --> 00:07:47.840 in fact, the mounting pattern on it is so unusual that only six of the 10 holes 00:07:44.720 --> 00:07:50.960 were able to be screwed in in this case. 00:07:47.840 --> 00:07:52.800 What are you to find out? Let's get it 00:07:50.960 --> 00:07:56.000 fired up. [laughter] Look, 00:07:54.319 --> 00:07:58.960 sorry, this isn't really supposed to be part of the video, but look how short 00:07:57.360 --> 00:08:04.560 the cord is on this [music] mouse. How the heck am I supposed to plug this in? 00:08:01.520 --> 00:08:07.919 I can try to um Oh, we never talked 00:08:04.560 --> 00:08:10.560 about IO. That is a lot of USB 2 for a 00:08:07.919 --> 00:08:14.919 modern motherboard, which h could be foreshadowing. Moment of truth. 00:08:15.440 --> 00:08:22.240 Whoa, that is a gigantic American Mega Trends logo. I don't know how you got 00:08:19.919 --> 00:08:25.520 into that BIOS because every time I've tried to get into the BIOS with a USB 00:08:23.919 --> 00:08:32.199 keyboard, it hasn't let me. I've had to use a PS2 keyboard. That really throws a 00:08:28.560 --> 00:08:32.199 wrench into that thing. 00:08:33.279 --> 00:08:39.440 Zeon CPU. Well, that explains the whole 00:08:36.800 --> 00:08:43.760 ECC memory bit. That doesn't tell us the full story of this motherboard, though. 00:08:40.880 --> 00:08:48.000 We'll get into that later. PCIe Gen 2 only. 00:08:45.519 --> 00:08:54.560 Overall, nothing too weird in here other than NVMe configuration. 00:08:52.560 --> 00:09:00.800 A platform this old shouldn't support NVMe devices. And yet, there it is. 00:08:59.360 --> 00:09:05.279 This is weird. Oh, is this just an external drive we don't have plugged in? 00:09:02.959 --> 00:09:10.880 Uh, no. Oh, if it's Synaptics. Synaptics. Why does it have Synaptics 00:09:08.000 --> 00:09:17.360 drivers? Oh, no. It's in Chinese. Hold on. I can do this. Device manager. Crap. 00:09:15.680 --> 00:09:23.880 Oh, actually, this is useful, too. I'll get to that later. 00:09:19.600 --> 00:09:23.880 Device manager. Crap. 00:09:23.920 --> 00:09:29.760 Device manager. Crap. 00:09:28.560 --> 00:09:33.440 Device manager. Why don't you try just opening the start 00:09:31.600 --> 00:09:38.320 menu and typing in device manager? Why don't you try minding your own business? 00:09:36.399 --> 00:09:43.760 Yeah. No, I mean, no, I know other ways to do it. I'm just I want to I WANT TO 00:09:40.560 --> 00:09:48.800 GUESS IT. No results for device manager. 00:09:43.760 --> 00:09:50.399 Uh, okay. Hold on. Hold on. Properties. 00:09:48.800 --> 00:09:54.320 Yes. It's still all in Chinese except network 00:09:52.800 --> 00:10:00.959 adapters for some reason. That's all English all the time. Let's go back to 00:09:56.880 --> 00:10:05.279 system properties. 32 gigs. Zeon E5 2680 00:10:00.959 --> 00:10:07.920 V4. a 14 core chip. That's not the 00:10:05.279 --> 00:10:12.399 fastest by modern standards, but hey, 14 cores is 14 cores. And that would be 00:10:09.519 --> 00:10:17.440 what? Haswell generation. So, should even be fast enough to game, especially 00:10:13.920 --> 00:10:20.560 if you don't have a super OPG GPU. 00:10:17.440 --> 00:10:22.720 One ongoing problem that has kept 00:10:20.560 --> 00:10:27.200 happening with this is that it doesn't like when you just kind of plug a 00:10:24.480 --> 00:10:33.360 network cable into it when it's already on. Oh, what? What a piece of But hey, 00:10:31.440 --> 00:10:38.000 at least it has rocket ships for arrow keys. Wait, I was mistaken. Products 00:10:35.680 --> 00:10:43.839 formerly Broadwell. So, a slightly more tuned 14 nmter chip from Intel. 00:10:41.200 --> 00:10:49.279 Retailed for $1,700 back when it was current. It's not so 00:10:46.480 --> 00:10:55.680 much anymore. Speaking of current, what on earth is this presumably web browser 00:10:53.200 --> 00:10:58.640 icon? Everything we installed is over here on the right, while the 00:10:56.880 --> 00:11:02.560 pre-installed software is over here on the left and I guess in the start menu. 00:11:01.040 --> 00:11:07.839 No, there's basically nothing there, which raises a couple of questions like 00:11:05.040 --> 00:11:11.920 where is Microsoft Edge? Nowhere, it turns out because the system is running 00:11:09.600 --> 00:11:15.920 a cracked version of Windows 10 Enterprise. That might also explain why 00:11:13.839 --> 00:11:20.079 we booted straight into an admin account rather than being prompted to create an 00:11:17.680 --> 00:11:24.480 account and a password. As it turns out, this piece of software is called 360 00:11:22.560 --> 00:11:29.200 Secure Browser, and it's made by, I'm sorry, I'm going to butcher this, Chihu. 00:11:27.200 --> 00:11:33.600 They often brag about having a high install base, but in actuality, it seems 00:11:31.920 --> 00:11:40.160 more to do with the fact that it comes bundled with Chioo 360, which is kind of 00:11:36.560 --> 00:11:42.320 the Norton of China. Naturally, it's 00:11:40.160 --> 00:11:47.200 nearly impossible to uninstall to the point where the US has accused Chiu of 00:11:44.720 --> 00:11:50.640 acting as spyware for the CCP, particularly during the Xenz Jang 00:11:48.880 --> 00:11:53.600 incidents. [music] There's otherwise nothing remarkable about the Windows 00:11:52.240 --> 00:11:58.880 install. And while we didn't go out of our way to monitor for it, it doesn't seem to be calling home in any 00:11:56.640 --> 00:12:04.720 particular way. Shall we play some Vinc games? 00:12:00.560 --> 00:12:09.120 Uh, that is not a lot of FPS's. 00:12:04.720 --> 00:12:10.240 60. Yep. 65 at the 1% lows. 00:12:09.120 --> 00:12:17.839 Give it a sec. Give it a sec. She's settling. Oh, actually that's weird. It's not bad according to frame view, 00:12:13.920 --> 00:12:21.279 but it feels awful. 00:12:17.839 --> 00:12:23.519 79 FPS, 1% lows. This should be more 00:12:21.279 --> 00:12:29.360 than okay. You know what? It probably is. It's got to be the terrible mouse. 00:12:28.079 --> 00:12:34.560 See if it can handle something a little more demanding. 00:12:31.920 --> 00:12:39.760 Not bad. Not bad at all. 00:12:37.120 --> 00:12:46.720 medium settings, 1080p, solid 60 to 70 frames per second. I 00:12:42.720 --> 00:12:48.399 mean, this is absolutely playable. I 00:12:46.720 --> 00:12:52.399 mean, you might not be playing Starfield or anything like that, but if you keep 00:12:49.920 --> 00:12:57.680 your expectations realistic, this is an awful lot of gaming per 00:12:54.880 --> 00:13:00.959 dollar. So, it works. But let's fire up hardware info and see if there's 00:12:59.040 --> 00:13:04.240 anything else we can learn about it. Well, one thing we learned is the CPU 00:13:02.639 --> 00:13:08.560 temperature monitoring isn't accurate. Actually, neither are a lot of these 00:13:06.160 --> 00:13:12.720 numbers. And another thing we learned is that this motherboard is even [music] 00:13:10.240 --> 00:13:18.480 weirder than we thought. Notice anything about the CPU chipset? Yeah, me too. You 00:13:16.720 --> 00:13:24.880 see, B85 was designed [music] exclusively for LGA1 1150, Intel's 00:13:21.920 --> 00:13:30.800 fourth generation Core consumer product. It shouldn't be possible for that to be 00:13:27.279 --> 00:13:32.800 paired with an LGA 2011 socket that's 00:13:30.800 --> 00:13:40.560 designed for servers and high-end desktops. Also, B85 motherboards used 00:13:36.480 --> 00:13:43.120 DDR3 RAM and lacked support for NVMe 00:13:40.560 --> 00:13:48.720 storage drives. And yet, here they are, plain as the LT underwear on my Nether 00:13:45.839 --> 00:13:53.920 regions, ltstore.com. We may never know exactly what's going 00:13:51.519 --> 00:13:58.399 on here, but what we can do is take some educated guesses. You might have 00:13:56.160 --> 00:14:04.240 encountered these videos of people reclaiming old chipsets from dead or 00:14:02.079 --> 00:14:10.079 useless motherboards using an angle grinder. And the B85 chipset along with 00:14:07.199 --> 00:14:14.880 its other 8 series siblings was widely used in office pre-builts like the Dell 00:14:12.399 --> 00:14:19.760 Optiplex or the Lenovo Think Centers of the early to mid2010s. Meaning there are 00:14:17.600 --> 00:14:24.720 millions of these chips out there in machines that businesses will literally 00:14:22.160 --> 00:14:30.639 pay to have removed. Sounds like a business opportunity, but 00:14:27.600 --> 00:14:33.920 who would want a Piddley quad or worse 00:14:30.639 --> 00:14:36.000 dual core CPU these days? If you could 00:14:33.920 --> 00:14:41.360 modify the capabilities of the chipset to create a lowcost board that could 00:14:38.399 --> 00:14:46.000 support a more powerful workstation CPU, then obviously that would take some 00:14:43.360 --> 00:14:51.839 extra steps. But it seems that there's a very active community of Russian tech 00:14:48.720 --> 00:14:54.480 enthusiasts that are doing just that. 00:14:51.839 --> 00:14:59.600 not only using these boards, but actively developing for them. There are 00:14:57.199 --> 00:15:04.959 thousands of pages of forum posts and wiki entries covering custom BIOSes, 00:15:02.560 --> 00:15:09.680 overclocking tips, and general quality of life improvements on motherboards 00:15:07.199 --> 00:15:14.000 very similar to this one, all in Russian. This could be driving not only 00:15:12.399 --> 00:15:20.880 additional sales of these boards from people that stumble across these resources, but also an improved outofbox 00:15:18.560 --> 00:15:24.639 experience for them if sellers of these systems are updating their products 00:15:22.880 --> 00:15:29.199 using the work of these forum and wiki posters. Judging by the date of the BIOS 00:15:27.040 --> 00:15:34.720 on this system, that could very well be the case. Chipset repurposing has been 00:15:31.519 --> 00:15:36.560 going on since at least Computex 2019 00:15:34.720 --> 00:15:42.480 when I bought a motherboard on the trade show floor that the seller claimed used 00:15:39.279 --> 00:15:44.720 a brand new X79 chipset, only for me to 00:15:42.480 --> 00:15:50.000 discover when I got home that Intel had, as I suspected, discontinued production 00:15:47.199 --> 00:15:55.360 of X79 years prior, meaning that it was almost certainly harvested just like 00:15:52.320 --> 00:15:56.639 this B85. At that time, however, I guess 00:15:55.360 --> 00:16:02.240 the market for these things was relatively small and could be served by 00:15:59.040 --> 00:16:05.199 desoldering real X79 chipsets and 00:16:02.240 --> 00:16:10.000 resoldering them onto new board designs. This LGA 2011 motherboard from Machinist 00:16:08.079 --> 00:16:14.160 is the first example that I've encountered of stretching the truth when 00:16:12.160 --> 00:16:21.040 it comes to the specs for these things. The name implies that it has an X99 00:16:16.959 --> 00:16:23.759 chipset, but in fact, it's using a C612 00:16:21.040 --> 00:16:27.759 chipset, a workstation chipset that is functionally similar. That is to say, 00:16:25.440 --> 00:16:32.560 it's intended for the same class of CPUs at least, but includes support for dual 00:16:30.480 --> 00:16:38.320 CPUs, meaning that these are probably getting harvested from retired servers. 00:16:35.199 --> 00:16:40.000 These boards are really interesting, but 00:16:38.320 --> 00:16:44.320 I think the real question is, are they worth anyone's time? The prospect of 00:16:42.320 --> 00:16:48.079 recycling chipsets definitely holds some environmental appeal to me, especially 00:16:46.320 --> 00:16:53.920 if they're coming off of non-functioning hardware. But as we demonstrated in our 00:16:50.320 --> 00:16:56.720 last $69 gaming PC series, it's very 00:16:53.920 --> 00:17:00.800 inexpensive to buy old castoff office machines and workstations from 00:16:58.399 --> 00:17:04.720 businesses, making it hard for something like this to be cost competitive. If 00:17:02.639 --> 00:17:09.360 you're gaming on a budget, I would definitely recommend the liquidated 00:17:07.199 --> 00:17:12.720 hardware route, assuming it's available. We'll have a couple of really good 00:17:10.559 --> 00:17:16.559 options for that linked down below. Of course, that strategy assumes that you 00:17:14.559 --> 00:17:20.880 live in a place where nearby businesses have such workstations in the first 00:17:18.559 --> 00:17:25.760 place, which might be why sellers on Taow have taken this approach instead. 00:17:24.079 --> 00:17:30.400 It's not [music] the best deal for everyone, but it's almost certainly the 00:17:28.000 --> 00:17:34.640 best deal for someone. And if you're looking for a way to get gaming on a 00:17:32.400 --> 00:17:39.039 budget along with a chance to do some tinkering and research, this certainly 00:17:37.360 --> 00:17:44.480 offers the opportunity for all of the above. It also offers the opportunity 00:17:41.200 --> 00:17:46.720 for me to segue to our sponsor, Seic. 00:17:44.480 --> 00:17:49.840 This company is like the Wayne Gretzky of power supplies. 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If you 00:18:28.160 --> 00:18:37.200 enjoyed this video, why not check out our latest $69 gaming PC build? I think 00:18:33.360 --> 00:18:37.200 we'll give this a run for its money.