WEBVTT

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foreign I understand the appeal system Building

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looks like a pretty easy gig out of a thousand bucks a pop all you got to do

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is sell three of these a day and your million dollar company easy right

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except for a few small problems the

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margins are piss-poor the chances of shipping damage oh are extremely high

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and no offense but the customers are a

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nightmare

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for everything from game crashes to slow

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Windows updates there's nothing I can do about any of that all of which is why I

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am extremely skeptical about the survival of star Forge systems

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everything about it screams doomed to

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fail like the ownership group being a bunch of twitch streamers with no

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obvious business Acumen the executive team being composed primarily of

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ex-employees of Artesian builds a system builder that only recently imploded in

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spectacular fashion and the absolute cherry on top is that the reveal went so

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poorly that aforementioned twitch streamers started Perma Banning their

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critics of course I am fully prepared to

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put my money where my mouth is and find out if I'm wrong so

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we purchased their Horizon Creator

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Edition PC A system that costs 3 500 US

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dollars is it a good deal is it well

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built does it work at all by the time it arrives oh and who sponsored this mess

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Ridge wallet has redefined the traditional wallet with its compact

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frame and RFID blocking plates the Bulge

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in your pants shouldn't be from your wallet use offer code Linus to save 10

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off and get worldwide shipping right now

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I have built literally hundreds of PCS in front of literally tens of millions

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of people leading many of them to sensibly ask me why I don't sell the PCS

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I build seems obvious right well it's

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because it's a deceptively challenging business Newegg screwed it up on their

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first attempt ABS was gone for years before it came back Walmart royally

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screwed it up and doesn't seem to have recovered and on that subject NCIX

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screwed it up too along with everything else too so the road star Forge is

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walking is littered with the corpses of everyone else who has attempted to

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survive in this business long term just maybe they've got what it takes though

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while we unbox the system let's talk a little bit more about the starforge

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systems team it was created by a collection of twitch streamers notably

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moist critical and one true king Network which includes as Mongol fan a number of

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other notable streamers

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it's going to be run by the xcoo of

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Artesian builds for those of you who aren't familiar with the different c-suite positions the COO is the one

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that basically runs the show but doesn't necessarily get to make all the

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decisions so they certainly brought in someone with experience however that

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experience didn't help them with the launch because there was immediate

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backlash to their high prices and supposedly terrible were they terrible

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yeah oh and terrible configs and then

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Fanning the fire the twitch streamers perma-band users that were critical of

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the PCS on their streams starforge systems then responded by dropping all

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prices by a hundred dollars and they adjusted their configs based on

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community feedback I mean that's pretty smart just crowdsourcing the actual work

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of configuring your computers by the way we took a lot of care to order this PC

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anonymously so that we wouldn't get any special treatments I actually have no

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idea what I just got for 3 500 US Dollars that's a lot oh wait due to the

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controversy we actually were refunded two hundred dollars and four weeks and

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two days later this is what arrived right out of the gate I will tell you

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that they are not using completely proper packing materials

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our Logistics Department informs me there actually was a second outer box

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but unfortunately it's already been picked up either way double boxing is

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effective for both improving the resiliency of your package and making it

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less likely to be stolen since apparently it was a completely non-descript box so uh good job

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starforge not quite as good as custom packaging but a lot better than just

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counting on the case package In fairness to them absolutely nothing seems to have

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been damaged in shipping though not even any bashed in screws which can be a

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common one this PC has apparently passed 3dmark last I checked 3dmark is not

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actually a pass fail test it does issue a score but I'm actually just being a

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butthead about that that's a very valid way to burn in a system and make sure

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that it is functioning correctly and that its performance is within what's

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expected for that config props to starforge systems by the way for using

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these these chemical expanding foam bags are not quite the best way to protect

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the inside of a system uh that would be maybe the acrylic braces or metal braces

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that Builders like Puget systems or tier ones include with their case designs but

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given that they're using off-the-shelf Enthusiast tier cases this is about the

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best way to make sure that no matter what case they're using all the little

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gaps are going to be filled in with that out of the way I guess we can take a

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little bit of a closer look at the system we're using three deep cool 120

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millimeter fans at the bottom they've got a bottom to top airflow

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configuration that's valid top mounted

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radiator meaning that our pump is at the lowest point so from a longevity

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standpoint it's a nice little nice to have I would have liked to see little

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peels like this probably pulled off since there's no need for the customer

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to remove that but that's a nitpick oh that's fun though I like them I don't

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know this four pin is not quite seated that clip's not fully engaged it's

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probable that the system will work but if I pull on this you can see it's not

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actually secured in any way oh my God this this other one has half of it not

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engaged either okay that's not good you got you got to make sure the clips are

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engaged guys especially if you're going to ship the system I want to make it clear that I'm not approaching this

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skeptically because it's twitch streamers doing it I'm approaching it skeptically because I know how easy this

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business appears to be and yet how many little things are very difficult to get

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right 24 pan is seated correctly USB 3

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of a more different USB 3 cable management actually I would say is a

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strong A minus oh actually this is tucked in I'd give

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it an A on the front I haven't looked at the back yet

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not bad this case hides cable mess well though whoop

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though any points that you've assign for the case you know is points for the SI

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they picked the case didn't they

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okay courtesy connector for a future GPU upgrade actually do like to see that

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even though it's a modular power supply extra cables such as the hard drive

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cages I'm fine with that EVGA 850 G6

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yeah a perfectly good power supply I

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would expect to find it on more like 1700 computer what am I gonna find when

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I dig deeper let's take a look at the included accessories at any rate

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wait did they just attach

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second I typically left a courtesy PCI IE GPU

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connector did they just attach all of the cables to a modular power supply

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these are courtesy cables so you can plug in a hard drive without actually

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running any cables what were the rest of my cables then and I didn't get a single

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Molex connector modular power supplies are not an excuse to not give me the

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capability to plug in the other cables the dumb part is that you guys already

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have an accessory box that you could have put them in there's no benefit

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whatsoever to holding on to them what are you going to do with your mountain

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of modular SATA cables no David don't cut the camera I'm demoing one of the

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best features of the LTD store screwdriver you can pick up big thumb

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screws and they don't fall off when you're trying to get them into position see that

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love it ltdstore.com Wi-Fi antennas

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power cable yes is this just some trendy thing that I'm

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not trendy enough to understand okay 3080 TI that seems pretty reasonable at

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this price point assuming pandemic pricing if you buy the Creator Edition

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PC now you get a 30 90. you get a 30 90 in this

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same machine if you buy it now yeah so we have the option of a hundred dollar

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refund so our 3500 purchase was knocked

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down to 3 400 because of the Scandal and then was knocked down another hundred

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because this tier has a 30 90 now and we

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kept the 3080 okay okay all right all right all right okay does it have 32

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gigs of RAM at least yes 3600

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megatransfer cl18 wait hold on a second this is an Intel platform board why are

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we using ddr4 uh

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guys this is interesting oh wait it's

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just loose in there I had assumed that that was some kind of print that they

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had done on the case itself which I guess means their deception was

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effective oh the lighting on it so that's kind of cool so it's an acrylic

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Light Panel do dad magismo

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might end up looking kind of neat I'd say that level of modding has got to be

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worth at least like a you know a 50 up charge 100 up charge even definitely a

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couple of mistakes and I have some big lingering questions about the value

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proposition but nothing too egregious so

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far let's go ahead and peel the front panel and Moment of Truth you guys ready

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oh that is a very uninspiring light up

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feature surely it lights up a little more than that okay oh there we go

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hey see see wait till wait for Windows

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okay that's pretty cool that's pretty

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cool looking they did a cool thing in there too starforge systems is that

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customizable or is that just an insert it could be a deep cool product based on

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that they're using deep cool fans which to my knowledge basically nobody is this

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just paper foreign are you guys serious oh hey that's what

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that thing is Alex it's this thing well wait why wouldn't

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they give me a me a blank one where's the r

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I got the G and the B and it has RGB

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lighting anyway why didn't they just do it this is such an ass backwards way to

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change the color definitely going to be a polarizing feature but I for one

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appreciate that they chose a penis rocket for their logo this is clearly

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supposed to be a and balls do you deny that this is no it's clearly a

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penis rocket okay

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very quiet good fan curve tuning well good fan

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curve tuning for quiet we'll have to see that it ramps up appropriately under

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load we've apparently already loaded up some games really what I want is to play

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my favorite game called Hardware info does you have Hardware info on here uh

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no you have OBS no wait this is from a

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streaming company why don't they have OBS installed that's a good question and

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the reason actually has to do with end user license agreements that's a big

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part of why you are not able to not only install software on a pre-built computer

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without a special agreement but in many cases even set up Windows so you have to

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go through that out of box experience Ubi and that's because the end user has

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to set that up themselves or they technically have not agreed to the terms

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of using that software oh wait I think that it came with Windows already set up

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it had a Creator account yeah you should double check that because they're not

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really supposed to do that I mean they're not the only ones who do it but

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it's not the right way I mean it has a Windows license hey where the hell is my

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Windows license it's got to be on the bottom uh okay this is getting kind of

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not funny where the is my Windows license there wasn't anything in the accessory box and I don't see the KOA

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anywhere on the chassis technically because the license is digitally bound

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to the motherboard now I should be able to continue to use this license as I

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normally would even without the little sticker but you are super not supposed

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to do that also confirmed set up by star Forge when it arrived and it was set up

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by starforge when it arrived okay yeah that's extra not not how Microsoft wants

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you to do it random streamers who've never run an SI yeah I I get how you

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could Overlook that but xcoo of Artesian should know better enough faffing about

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what is this thing okay it's a 12900 KF

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at this price and bucks on the onboard Graphics

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actually that's one of the things that they changed now when you buy this PC it

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comes with just the K because people got really mad at the Creator PC didn't have

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quick sync yeah it does not have quick yeah okay

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32 gigs RAM okay do they have XMP enabled this is a good thing to check

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yes we're running at 3600 Mega transfers per second I just noticed something

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oh no oh

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this light is supposed wait is it possible that on this case they intend

00:13:24.899 --> 00:13:32.399
for this light to be a drive activity indicator let's check it is possible

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that that was miswired or was intentional uh thanks to Liam Lee it's

00:13:34.980 --> 00:13:41.959
also possible that starforge hooked up the front panel indicator LEDs

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incorrectly power led oh my God the power LED is plugged in

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backwards it won't affect the performance of the system but there's

00:13:49.800 --> 00:13:56.100
just no excuse for it when the legend for what plugs into wear is silk

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screened right onto the motherboard less than an inch away from these headers

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it's also a royal pain in the butt for the end user to try to fix this and then

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hard drive LED yes is plugged into hard drive LED so that is intended to be the

00:14:05.940 --> 00:14:12.899
hard drive LED it's a constant blue illumination and then it blinks red with

00:14:10.260 --> 00:14:17.519
Drive activity so it was only blinking red man you can't be a professional PC

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Building Company and be bunging stuff up like that I do still have questions

00:14:19.560 --> 00:14:26.040
about the thermal configuration of this machine I would really prefer to see

00:14:24.240 --> 00:14:28.980
some intake right here normally this case would have a spot for fans so that

00:14:27.600 --> 00:14:34.019
you're drawing some nice fresh air in for the aios instead of relying on

00:14:30.959 --> 00:14:36.779
preheated GPU air I can't fault the

00:14:34.019 --> 00:14:41.399
Acoustics still quite quiet All Things Considered no complaints about

00:14:38.279 --> 00:14:43.440
performance either I mean 12 900 KF is a

00:14:41.399 --> 00:14:49.199
12900 KF and it's hard to go wrong with a 3080 TI okay penis rocket computer

00:14:46.380 --> 00:14:53.100
company after a couple of little errors out of the gate although kind of

00:14:51.180 --> 00:14:57.720
embarrassing ones I think it's time for us to take a look at what else is in the

00:14:54.660 --> 00:14:59.459
market and see how you stand up while

00:14:57.720 --> 00:15:03.360
their system was in the lab starforge also responded to some of our other

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comments first explaining why they feel being owned by twitch streamers is a

00:15:05.519 --> 00:15:12.899
huge Advantage for them first it means that their marketing costs are

00:15:09.420 --> 00:15:15.120
essentially zero and second that it adds

00:15:12.899 --> 00:15:19.680
a level of credibility to their company that kind of sounds like the same thing

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to me that's pretty much marketing but I will admit that while starforge has

00:15:21.720 --> 00:15:28.380
existed for only a couple of months having streamers behind it means at the

00:15:25.500 --> 00:15:31.800
very least there are public personas who can suffer damage to their brand

00:15:29.820 --> 00:15:36.779
reputation if starforge screws over their customers and it means that they

00:15:34.079 --> 00:15:40.860
will have fairly Deep Pockets to keep the company running in at least the

00:15:38.760 --> 00:15:44.760
short to medium term and from what I can tell anyway they seem to be building

00:15:42.540 --> 00:15:49.380
towards doing everything properly in the long term while they did kind of screw

00:15:47.279 --> 00:15:54.360
up the Ubi from what I've been told Windows these days is typically a

00:15:51.899 --> 00:15:57.420
digital key with no physical COA required anymore and they're currently

00:15:55.920 --> 00:16:01.079
in the process of being on board into the Windows SI program so anything that

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needs to be changed there should be changed soon as for the Artesian build stuff well I

00:16:04.920 --> 00:16:10.680
can't tell you everything they told me because it's still getting litigated and

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I quote we don't want to give that man any more money but the whole executive

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team for starforge was already assembled and signed with otk before Artesian

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imploded and Nick the CEO of starforge and xco of Artesian got pretty emotional

00:16:25.199 --> 00:16:30.300
when we brought it up saying that his wife had wanted him to leave for years

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but he knew if he did the jobs of everyone he had would be at risk and he

00:16:33.480 --> 00:16:39.120
left and well he was right everyone that

00:16:36.839 --> 00:16:43.920
worked for him lost their job and some of them didn't get their paychecks

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that's a heavy situation and I wish nothing but the best for Nick and the

00:16:46.079 --> 00:16:51.720
rest of the refugees from Artesian builds I'm not going to bring them up

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anymore but I'm also not going to be giving you guys any pity points you do

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need to figure out the QC errors that resulted in some of our connectors not

00:16:57.300 --> 00:17:02.940
being fully plugged in and some of them being incorrectly connected we've

00:17:01.259 --> 00:17:06.480
provided the serial number and they say they'll be looking into it so they can

00:17:04.319 --> 00:17:11.040
help to fix their processes you also need to be delivering a solid price to

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Performance ratio if we're going to be able to recommend your system and I have

00:17:13.140 --> 00:17:20.520
some great news for you guys LTT Labs is finally set up enough to start testing

00:17:18.120 --> 00:17:24.900
systems for us and the starforge system here

00:17:21.540 --> 00:17:27.179
actually did pretty well compared to

00:17:24.900 --> 00:17:32.040
this system with similar specs their performance was plus or minus five

00:17:29.100 --> 00:17:35.880
percent which I guess shouldn't win the many awards but when you compare them to

00:17:34.080 --> 00:17:40.919
the competition where system integrators might forget or forego features like XMP

00:17:38.460 --> 00:17:46.440
while the likes of Dell might give you a proprietary motherboard that has no

00:17:42.900 --> 00:17:48.780
expandability or HP might have the power

00:17:46.440 --> 00:17:53.640
limit of your CPU set so low that it actually does have much worse

00:17:51.000 --> 00:17:58.200
performance I think they actually do end up with an award here judging the value

00:17:55.620 --> 00:18:05.280
proposition though is a little bit more difficult obviously when compared to a

00:18:01.500 --> 00:18:06.840
DIY system starforge gets crushed we

00:18:05.280 --> 00:18:13.140
were able to build something with identical specs that cost I kid you not

00:18:10.280 --> 00:18:17.160
900 dollars less In fairness to starforge that did

00:18:15.000 --> 00:18:22.799
include a recent price drop on the 3080 TI but even so it was way cheaper in a

00:18:21.240 --> 00:18:28.679
similar vein we were actually able to build a system with a 30 90 TI rather

00:18:25.860 --> 00:18:33.960
than a 3080 TI while still spending the exact same amount so yes building a DIY

00:18:31.320 --> 00:18:37.799
system will save you money I should hope so but things start to get more

00:18:36.000 --> 00:18:42.360
interesting once we start comparing to other sis not everybody wants to build

00:18:39.960 --> 00:18:47.220
their own computer so while I buy Power will build you a PC for roughly the same

00:18:44.340 --> 00:18:52.679
price that one doesn't come with a light up and balls in it I consider that

00:18:49.500 --> 00:18:55.260
a big downside and looking at the tier 2

00:18:52.679 --> 00:19:01.200
fancy system Builders things get even more interesting origin PC costs about a

00:18:58.320 --> 00:19:05.700
hundred dollars more but with ddr5 and main gear will sell you a system with

00:19:02.820 --> 00:19:11.100
these same specs for a casual forty seven hundred dollars so at this point I

00:19:09.419 --> 00:19:15.660
think it's fair to say that starforge's pricing broadly makes sense especially

00:19:13.740 --> 00:19:19.559
since their hundred dollar drop and their build adjustments starforge also

00:19:18.059 --> 00:19:25.740
offers a two-year warranty where if something breaks they will actually pay for shipping both ways and fix your PC

00:19:24.179 --> 00:19:31.620
if the fix can't be done over the phone which is pretty impressive if they can

00:19:29.340 --> 00:19:35.280
actually manage to pull that off in the real world I still don't know if I can

00:19:33.720 --> 00:19:39.120
wholeheartedly recommend them for the same reason that I don't wholeheartedly

00:19:37.080 --> 00:19:44.220
recommend buying a car on its very first model year but while they clearly have a

00:19:41.940 --> 00:19:48.840
couple of Kinks to work out I'd say if they're still around in six months and

00:19:45.900 --> 00:19:53.039
you like the streamers in otk then starforge seems like they might be as

00:19:50.760 --> 00:19:58.200
good an option as any other SI on the market of course the best option is

00:19:55.559 --> 00:20:02.700
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linusbusiness at checkout if you guys enjoyed this video gosh we don't really

00:21:01.260 --> 00:21:07.140
do a whole lot of pre-built PC reviews I guess I'll throw back to the last secret

00:21:05.220 --> 00:21:10.460
shopper because that's the last time we did anything similar go check it out