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It's says 5-ft-1. He should fit in our

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server rack. No, it's starting at

3
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5-ft-1. And here it's listed as up to 7

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ft. Hold on. I found the same guy on

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Amazon and it says compare at 6-ft-2.

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What does that mean?

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>> He's an organic match. We just want him

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to fit in the server rack. Max, what are

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you even talking about? No.

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>> [music]

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>> This type of deceptive marketing has

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existed for as long as I've been 4-ft-1.

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But more recently it's become an even

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bigger problem. For example, just last

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year bestbuy.com decided to change how

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they present promotional prices. Instead

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of calculating discounts compared to

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their typical everyday price, or you

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know, MSRP, they now use a compare at

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reference price that is from what we can

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tell at best optimistic and at worst an

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outright lie. And the worst part is Best

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Buy seems to know this given that they

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haven't brought this practice to other

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regions where they have stricter

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regulations on this behavior. So let's

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talk about how retailers are trying to

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avoid pricing transparency, how this

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plague is spreading, and what we can do

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as consumers to push back against it.

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43
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44
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or $225

45
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47
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49
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51
00:01:59,200 --> 00:02:02,600
We'll have that linked down below.

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This problem runs much deeper than just

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one retailer, and we're going to get

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into that later. But, I want to start

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with Best Buy's recent changes. This

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monitor, for instance,

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>> [music]

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>> is listed for $260 off compared to Best

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Buy's comparable value. Compared to

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what, though? At a glance, this seems to

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suggest that it is compared to their

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normal retail price, but

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why don't we dig into the fine print

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here? Oh, and dig into the fine print

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here, shall we?

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>> [clears throat]

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>> Our comparable value prices are based on

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the price at which the product or a

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comparable item

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Wait. The reference price can be for

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another product entirely? Who decides

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what's comparable? Oh, wait. Okay, hold

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on. There's more. It can also be a price

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that was or in the future will be

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offered for sale by Best Buy marketplace

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sellers, manufacturers, suppliers, or

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other retailers online or in store.

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Let me get this straight. Best Buy's new

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policy is that it can reference the

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price of any product at any time, even

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in the future, sold by anyone anywhere,

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and use that to calculate how much money

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I'm saving? And they think that that's a

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useful reference? No, of course they

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don't. Why would they make this change?

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The simple answer is to capitalize on

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the FOMO of shoppers who might not

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obsessively track prices and might not

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realize that the discounts they're being

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offered are kind of BS. If you want me

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to illustrate why this matters and why

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it needs to be stopped, I've got a

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perfect example for you. lttstore.com

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sometimes discounts our legendary

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ratcheting multibit screwdriver. $10

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off, though, doesn't sound like that big

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of a deal. But, hold on a second. What

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if I compare at some other multi-bit

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screwdriver from, say, Wera Tools? No,

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no. Not the price on their site. How

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about this one from a random seller?

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NOW, look at the LTT screwdriver. What a

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deal! But, wait, there's more. I think

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that that Red Bull edition could

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double in price in the future. Well,

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now, you're saving $940

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on your purchase from LTTstore.com,

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which sounds ridiculous because it is.

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But, if we don't do something, that's

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the direction we could be headed. And

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look, I fully recognize that the

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slippery slope argument may be a

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fallacy, but Best Buy is obviously out

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there icing the hill right now. So,

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isn't any of this against the law? Well,

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I'm not a lawyer and this isn't legal

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advice, but the short version is it

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seems like it is and it seems like Best

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Buy knows it. You might have noticed

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that I keep using the words reference

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price. And that's because reference

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pricing is a common phrase used in legal

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documents for what the American FTC

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calls retail price comparisons. And

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false reference pricing or deceptive

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pricing is a practice that is regulated

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by the FTC. How do I know that Best Buy

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knows this? Because they've been sued

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over it as recently as just last year.

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That suit claimed that Best Buy enticed

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shoppers with discounted prices that

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would either not change after the sale

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period, were not lower than the regular

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price 90 days before the sale, or even

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were higher than another recently

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advertised price. Now, that case was

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voluntarily dismissed by the plaintiffs,

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but that doesn't mean that Best Buy is

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in the right. It is possible that they

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were right, but it's also possible that

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the plaintiffs were dissuaded by the

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cost of litigation, or it's possible

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that Best Buy settled out of court.

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I don't really consider the matter

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resolved one way or the other, and

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neither should you. It is worth noting,

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by the way, that outside of the US, Best

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Buy Canada doesn't use this language,

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and that appears to be because Canada's

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Competition Bureau requires retailers to

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pass a certain volume or time test in

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order to count something as an ordinary

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selling price. Although it is worth

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noting that even then, recent lawsuits

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have cropped up accusing Best Buy Canada

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of misrepresenting regular prices and

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savings. [music]

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Now, I've picked on Best Buy a lot so

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far, but I promised to touch on the

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others, and now it's time to do just

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that because this is a widespread issue.

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Walmart's reference pricing appears to

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be based on the median price within 90

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days offered by Walmart or its

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marketplace sellers. That's a little

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better, but that bit at the end, knowing

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how marketplace sellers tend to price

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items, that clearly gives Walmart a lot

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of leeway for representing their uh

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discounts. Then, of course, there is

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Amazon. They do use a suggested retail

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price,

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>> [music]

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>> which can be provided by the

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manufacturer, supplier, or seller if the

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reference price is labeled list price.

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But if it's the typical price, like on

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Walmart, that's just the 90-day median

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price that customers have paid with no

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real auditing or transparency from our

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side to actually verify [music] it.

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Now, I can continue to give examples,

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but I think at this point it'd be better

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to lay out what we feel needs to be

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done. Starting with compare at reference

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prices simply being banned or required

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to be the manufacturer's advertised

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MSRP. This move is unlikely to make

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anything cheaper, see GPUs that

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regularly retail for well above NVIDIA's

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supposed MSRPs, but at least this would

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give consumers the transparency to

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understand what is a deal and what just

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plain is not a deal. With that out of

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the way, compare at, though, is just one

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of the three horsemen of the deceptive

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marketing apocalypse. Up to can be just

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as bad. Whether it's sales where the

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deeply discounted items are all garbage

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or product specifications that would be

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better represented as your mileage may

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00:07:53,640 --> 00:07:58,960
vary. Up to has turned into this

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catch-all butt-covering clause that just

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absolves manufacturers and retailers of

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00:08:01,960 --> 00:08:05,800
any responsibility for products or

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00:08:04,200 --> 00:08:07,960
offers that don't live up to their

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promises. And the funny thing about it

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00:08:07,960 --> 00:08:12,720
is that guidelines around this one

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totally do exist as well. They just need

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to be adopted by regulatory bodies and

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then enforced. The Better Business

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Bureau for instance prohibits up to sale

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claims where at least 10% of the items

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in the sale don't meet the advertised

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00:08:24,120 --> 00:08:28,000
discount threshold. That sounds pretty

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00:08:25,960 --> 00:08:29,960
sensible to me. As for the last one,

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starting at, I'm not going to get into

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00:08:29,960 --> 00:08:34,080
too much detail since we've got a whole

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video dedicated to dunking on companies

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for advertising an awful configuration

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00:08:36,320 --> 00:08:40,320
you shouldn't buy that gets you in the

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door then upselling you something usable

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often for a lot more money. So,

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with the three out there, what can we do

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about them?

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00:08:46,280 --> 00:08:50,839
Well, it's tough because there are cases

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where these terms do make sense. Apple's

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Mac mini would be a great example of a

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00:08:52,640 --> 00:08:57,320
product that is an awesome value even at

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its starting at configuration. Let's

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pick on ourselves again. Our own True

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Spec USB-C cables are starting at

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$21.99. But like Apple, I'm not going to

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00:09:05,360 --> 00:09:09,240
apologize for that product being a great

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value especially when the one that's 40

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00:09:09,240 --> 00:09:14,440
times faster costs just $5 more than

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00:09:12,240 --> 00:09:16,280
that starting at price. And so with

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00:09:14,440 --> 00:09:18,400
everyone setting their own line in the

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00:09:16,280 --> 00:09:19,960
sand, I don't know how you would police

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00:09:18,400 --> 00:09:22,200
something like that. So, let's come back

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00:09:19,960 --> 00:09:24,720
to compare at because here there's

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00:09:22,200 --> 00:09:27,080
something that we can or at least should

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00:09:24,720 --> 00:09:28,800
be able to do to fight back. PC Part

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Picker is an incredibly useful tool

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00:09:28,800 --> 00:09:33,440
because they track pricing across

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multiple retailers over time which helps

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00:09:33,440 --> 00:09:37,680
shoppers determine what an item is

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00:09:35,280 --> 00:09:40,560
actually worth and how a current price

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00:09:37,680 --> 00:09:42,480
compares to uh historical pricing. But,

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00:09:40,560 --> 00:09:44,480
we've noticed a pattern of behavior,

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00:09:42,480 --> 00:09:47,640
especially here in North America, where

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retailers are actively fighting against

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similar services.

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Similar websites that have tried to do

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what PC Part Picker did, but more

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00:09:53,560 --> 00:09:58,040
broadly, have crumbled under the

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pressure, like Price Zombie, a tool that

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tracked price history across multiple

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00:09:59,800 --> 00:10:03,200
online retailers, and then collected

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00:10:01,840 --> 00:10:04,920
affiliate money from the traffic that

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00:10:03,200 --> 00:10:06,240
their links generated. That actually

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00:10:04,920 --> 00:10:07,920
sounds like a business model that would

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00:10:06,240 --> 00:10:09,880
be beneficial for everyone, right? Well,

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Amazon didn't think so, and allegedly,

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they barred Price Zombie from their

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affiliate program for violating its

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rules that prohibit showing Amazon

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prices that are more than 24 hours old.

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Given that Amazon Affiliate was 90% of

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Price Zombie's revenue, it was a death

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blow. Then, there's CamelCamelCamel,

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whose CEO has said outright that they

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live or die by Amazon, and that they

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also prohibit showing Amazon prices next

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to pricing from a competitor, which is

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why they decided to only display Amazon

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data, despite originally also tracking

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Best Buy and Newegg on separate

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websites. How does Amazon wield so much

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power here? In the EU, for instance,

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Idealo is a huge website that somehow

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manages to display and compare prices,

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even historical prices, across a ton of

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retailers, including Amazon. What are

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our alternatives? Well, there is one,

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but I'm not recommending it.

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It's Honey.

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Those blood suckers, with their PayPal

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money, have somehow managed to build and

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keep alive a tool called Droplist that

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seems to do a pretty decent job of

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scraping prices and tracking price

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history. It's not as good at showing

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price history across retailers all in

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one place like Idealo is or Price Zombie

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was, and it seems to glitch out a bit

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with certain retailers, but it is there.

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It is insane to me that this is the only

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tool we could find that could do this

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job outside of tech. And it wasn't just

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us. It seems like you just need to have

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major financial muscle in order to get

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away with this.

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>> [music]

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>> On that note, the next closest thing has

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probably got to be Google Shopping, but

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[music] even that doesn't prominently

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display the best deal, and while its

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price tracking does exist, it also

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doesn't seem to show you Amazon in any

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of its results in the US. Finally,

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there's Capital One Shopping, which does

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a good job of showing multiple retailers

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with the best price up top, but doesn't

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track [music] price history. Now, there

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are a lot of other services that claim

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to do this job, but we usually found

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that they simply didn't give us the best

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price. With that said, if you know of

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one we missed, hey, leave a comment

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below and help to spread the word. With

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all that said, what can you do to stop

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retailers from using deceptive practices

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like false reference pricing and going

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after tools that help you make more

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informed purchasing decisions?

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Unfortunately, the only answer is the

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one that's going to be work. You've got

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to get involved. Follow websites like

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classaction.org and participate wherever

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you can. You can also advocate for

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stricter regulations and better

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enforcement by touching base with

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consumer advocacy groups or by writing

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your government representative. I know,

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[music] that's not a convenient or

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especially fulfilling solution, but it's

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what you can do.

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Another thing you can do is steer your

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hard-earned money toward businesses that

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don't participate in these practices.

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>> [music]

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>> Like, for example, lttstore.com and our

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sponsor, Delete Me. Do you remember the

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seagulls from Finding Nemo that were

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always saying, "Mine, mine, mine"? Fun

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fact, they were based on data brokers

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online squabbling for the ability to

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sell your personal information, which is

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something that brokers are legally

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allowed to do, by the way. Well, with

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Delete Me, you can actually remove that

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information from hundreds of data broker

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and people search sites with minimal

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effort. Delete Me has been in the game

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for well over a decade, to the point

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where they use in-house tech to remove

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the one that we did on starting at? It's

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a little more tech focused, but I think

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it does a good job of outlining why it

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can be so problematic.